From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #613 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, December 10 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 613 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Here we go again ["Jim Leonard" ] queen NJC ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Joni mention in Esquire ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni mention in Esquire ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Here we go again - NJC ["Jim Leonard" ] funds ("co-mingling.") ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: Here we go again - NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni mention in Esquire NJC [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: chaos, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] (NJC) Piss-n-Moan Forum ["Lori Fye" ] NJC See y'all in January [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: (NJC) Piss-n-Moan Forum [tantra-apso ] Here we go again njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Miles of Aisles njc ["mackoliver" ] RE: How I came upon Joni's Music ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Miles of Aisles njc ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Here we go again njc ["mackoliver" ] Re: (Northeast Jonifest) Please stop njc - some sound financial advice ["] Re: Here we go again njc ["Jim Leonard" ] Dreams do come true (NJC) ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: NJC - Best of '03 ["ron" ] RE: Here we go again njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Here we go again njc ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Here we go again njc ["Jim Leonard" ] Re: Here we go again njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] just stop (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? ["Richard Flynn" Subject: Re: Here we go again Thanks for your responses to my message of last night, both on- an off-list. I wish that the off-list messages, all of which were in support of what I had to say, had been posted here, but such is life. This will be my only other post on this subject, so please don't A frequent component of responses to me has been that the JMDL has been around since 1997, and so it is natural that it has evolved to what it is today (in terms of "the nature" of it). Jerry even said: "The survival rate of lists which were started with similar interests is about 2 percent. I think we are going on 8 years, now." To those of you who seem to have missed my point -- and I agree that my post late last night was a little less eloquent than I would have liked it to have been -- there is a dramatic "difference" between the nature of the JMDL and the nature of the other music-related mailing lists to which I subscribe. It isn't because more emotional, sensitive people are drawn to Joni Mitchell than to other artists. Emotional, sensitive people are drawn to Van Morrison and Neil Young, too. There are 5 other lists to which I subscribe, and all have been around since 1997 (or earlier). None of them are at all like the JMDL in terms of the personal nature of many of the posts. I'm sure there are close relationships which have evolved among subscribers, but the communications between them are not out there for all to see. Messages of comfort and support in trying times are sent in private emails, not to a world-wide public forum. That type of post dominates here, in my opinion, despite Vince's claims to the contrary. What I object to is this: the publishing of what is almost universally (elsewhere) private communication. On other lists, occasionally a list member may announce that a tragedy has befallen him/her, or that there's something personal to celebrate, but that does not generate copious *on-list* messages in response. (To what end, I ask? So that all may see how wonderful and sensitive we are? Is it a self-worth thing?) Anita asks: "If I write an email about how much the song 'Trouble Child' meant to me and what was going on in my life at that time, would it be intrusive?" Not at all. I am not pointing to posts like that at all! That is just the type of post that is most welcome, as far as I'm concerned. "Should I discuss the tuning or the way the lines scan or can I say what the song means to me? > By all means, I (and most others) would encourage you to tell us what the song means to you. "I feel much of Joni's music is about contacting and connecting with others in their darkness and this is what some folk have recently been doing here on this site." Here's an interesting Joni Content challenge. Please support that contention, that much of Joni's music is about connecting with others in their darkness. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'd just like to see the case made. (As a side issue -- and yes, I'm being a wise guy -- please support the position that Joni would want this connecting to be done on a public forum, verses intimately and privately.) At least I managed to sidetrack the conversation for a day, and it was my pleasure to take the heat. I really do hope the list isn't "turn asunder" by "the other matter," and I hope that you in the Caring Friends Network will at least consider what I've had to say, at least as it pertains to the inherent risks involved in so many members having "sensitive and caring" public personas to defend. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:51:16 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: queen NJC >>It is a good thing to ask these questions. >>It doesn't mean there is any mistrust of the queen. >>(not refering to the Q of Q) >Marianne, I have no idea what you mean by this sentence, but "if" the >statement "the Queen" is supposed to refer to *me* in any way whatsoever, >I am >about as infuriated as I can possibly get. "If" it refers to me, I take >that as a highly derogatory remark and "if" that is what you mean, I just >DO NOT understand where that is coming from. Please explain that sentence >to me. Calling you "the queen," in my heart, is calling you the gracious leader. . . I intended it as affectionate. YOU ARE our queen. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone switch rules are taking effect  find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:14:15 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni mention in Esquire That is so sweet! I know how christie feels! Funny that joni says people think she's christie's mom as christie must be closer to joni's age than to her daughter's age... >Former model Christie Brinkley: "I couldn't count the hours I spent by my stereo deciphering Joni Mitchell's lyrics and adding them to my life's meaning. When I got the chance to meet her, there were so many things I wanted to say, and I was so overwhelmed that I couldn't talk. She said, "You know how many times people ask me if I'm your Mom?" I tried to speak again, but nothing came out."< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:24:54 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Joni mention in Esquire >>That would be pretty cool - a non-smoker, an ex-smoker, and a chain-smoker! I'm sure that Joni would thoroughly enjoy basking in such virility!<< Bob What the blazes has smoking to do with virility? confused in barcelona NP Danilo Perez - Overjoyed ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:53:41 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Here we go again - NJC From: "Lori Fye" > First, Jim, your post qualifies as NJC, so please tag it as such. > How does the following excerpt qualify as NJC?: I wrote: "Here's an interesting Joni Content challenge. Please support that contention, that much of Joni's music is about connecting with others in their darkness. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'd just like to see the case made." Looks like JC to me. Thanks, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:56:13 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: funds ("co-mingling.") Hey, You know, I read Ashara's post for the second time and I understoood something for the first time: It was what some people call an "ah ha! experience." When Jim said the thing about (not quoting exactly) what is this "co-mingling of funds?". . . I think THIS may have been a key phrase that made Ashara and maybe others, at first, think there was some mistrust in the air. I didn't think there were any reasons to think there were any allegations of mistrust at all. . .. until this I re-read this statement. . "co-mingling of funds. . ." I also assumed from the start that Jim did not mistrust Ashara. Do you see what I mean? . . .ie., that this phrase CAN be interpreted as someone being untrustworthy? I hope you can understand what I am trying to say. Not for one minute have I mistrusted Ashara or anyone here when it comes to appropriating funds. I have assumed, from the start, that no one else alledged this in anyway either. I think that is partly what is happening. . . . Ashara feels that maybe some distrust her. . . THAT'S NOT IT A T A L L. Gee, heavens no! For my part of it: I am only saying that If I am going to donate money I would like to know some things about where the money is going. If something is in fact "a donation," then I feel it is fair for a donor (or potential donor) to know how much the thing costs. And your are right Ashara, if you or someone doesn't want to tell me, then I have the right not to donate. Take for an example, the Joni Mitchell statue. (still happening or not, I don't know) How much is it going to cost? I would like to know this before I donate. I would also like to know how much has been raised. Just because I asked this question in no way means that I don't trust the person who is working on the project. kapeesh? (however you spell it) Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:58:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Here we go again - NJC Jim wrote: > I wrote: "Here's an interesting Joni Content challenge. Please > support that contention, that much of Joni's music is about > connecting with others in their darkness. I'm not saying I agree or > disagree, I'd just like to see the case made." > > Looks like JC to me. Fair enough. Please accept my qualified apology. "Qualfied" because I think it was a veiled attempt at creating a little JC so you could get the rest of your post out there. It would have been much better to make that a separate post, don't you think? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:45:29 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni mention in Esquire NJC ***What the blazes has smoking to do with virility?*** Nothing at all...I meant them to be 2 totally different thoughts, sorry for not making that clear. Both were intended humorous, I should have known better to throw something in to the battleground. Since Stephen name-checked me I felt obligated to respond. Bob NP: CSNY, "Carry On" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:09:40 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: chaos, NJC Victor wrote: > For some reason, I keep thinking of Alice in Wonderland at the end of the > story when the queen is ordering her beheaded, all chaos breaks loose, and > she says, "You're all just a pack of cards." > > That's what this list feels like sometimes. Chaos seems to be a good sign in the growth of community. Scott Peck describes this in his book The Different Drum which is one of the best books I've read. He says that as community grows, chaos occurs when pseudocommunity is exited. In "pseudocommunity," conflict is avoided and people think everything is just "wonderful" but nobody really communicates. The next growth stage according to Scott is "emptiness," which he says is "the bridge between chaos and community." When he explains emptiness to people, he says, "I tell them simply that they need to empty themselves of barriers to communication." The barriers he refers to are: expectations, preconceptions, prejudices, ideology, theology, solutions, the need to heal, the need to convert, the need to fix, the need to solve, and the need to control. I enjoy the discussions on the JMDL and feel a real sense of community here because for the most part, people are pretty good at emptying themselves of barriers. Joni has a way with words and so do the people on this list. I'm glad I'm a part of it. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:16:36 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Piss-n-Moan Forum I must have angered the smoe server gods, as I haven't seen my last couple of posts. Just in case my previously mentioned invitation never shows up, visit this link to join our newest email group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piss-n-moan/ Lori, being serious ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:30:16 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC See y'all in January I'm joining Troy-Bob and taking the rest of this month off. I'll come back in '04 to announce a new covers volume. Til then, PEACE & joy to all in this holiday season. Bob NPIMH: Chuck Berry, "Too much monkey business" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:40:16 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: (NJC) Piss-n-Moan Forum Lori Fye wrote: >I must have angered the smoe server gods, as I haven't seen my last >couple of posts. Just in case my previously mentioned invitation never >shows up, visit this link to join our newest email group: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piss-n-moan/ > >Lori, >being serious > > > LOL! I joined! Not to piss or moan of course,just to read. Hope I am not disappointed. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:40:36 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Here we go again njc I think this is really strictly njc so I added the tag... Jim, you are a valuable member of this discussion list & have much to offer...imo, nothing positive ever occurs when any one of us try to limit this list to the discussions that only we feel comfortable with... If that happened there would be no disccusions at all because I imagine even some joni related topics would be considered off limits...(no more bsn talk, etc...lol!) imo, limitations only lead to self appointed policing & thought stagnation... The upside is that each of us has the opportunity to make this list what we want it to be by posting our thoughts & topics for discussion... there are many topics I have no interest in so I skip over them- some even related to joni! Oh the heresy! Skipping topics is such an easy solution & if you read something you don't like feel free to skip it! It's a choice that seems to work so why are we talking about this?! You have posted before about being uncomfortable with the close friendships that have grown among some members & that is your own perogative, but to lay blame for this temporary discord (of which there have been several in the past & this one too shall pass) on the personal friendships is an HUGE error of perception, imo... The fact that you see it also as a powder keg ready to blow is IMO an exaggeration of the situation... I have seen much worse discord on other lists among people that have not met... I hope you can at least understand why friendships have been found here- even marriages & long term relationships have been found here! Pretty incredible I think! The friendships here are a natural result of people meeting each other in person over the years (& jonifest is only one such event, there are many other instances such as people who have traveled to a foreign country who have been welcomed by those in that country & of course members who have met each other at concerts or art openings, etc... To me this is an incredible byproduct of this disscussion list that may or may not be part of other lists (I know the leeshore has a very strong component of members meeting in person)... Obviously, this is not your cup of tea which is fine... However, it is your choice & it would be helpful if you could accept that this is the nature of this list & simply opt out of any discussions you don't want to be part of instead of trying to make it the way you want it...You may not feel that personal connections enrich this list but I feel they do... In fact I see this list as a big party of many discussions, walk over & join in the group talking about music but don't join in the group talking about their trip to saskatoon...or whatever... I realize that on this email list issue, we are probably as far apart as anyone can be which may be a result of our personalities... I have forged so many friendships & connections with folks on a personal & on a professional level which have started with an email (not limited to this list)... I also have a very rich life of family & friends who I have known for most of my life so it isn't because of anything lacking in my life fyi... For me, the internet continues to be an amazing networking tool that makes it possible for me to reach people in ways that would not have been possible before... But I am used to letting in many people to my life because as a songwriter I have already shared some of my most innermost thoughts with people I don't even know... So it has become second nature for me to connect with people on a more personal level than just impersonal emails (but I know many who are not comfortable on this level & I respect that)... So many of my gigs & music connections have been made via email, then later in person... I would never expect anyone else to do as I do, nor would I accept someone else telling me how they think I ought to do things... Finally the call for funds (or even the knowledge of her illness) for MG would never had occurred if this list was not as you describe it, a 'caring friends network'... >I wish that you people would decide to have a Joni Mitchell discussion list (as the Joni Mitchell website advertises, and to which newbies are directed) -- one which would be like other music-oriented discussion lists I'm on -- instead of a "Caring Friends Network" list. (I'm speaking in general here, and not specifically about the call for funds for MG.) All of this *on-list*, community involvement in each other's personal lives has made me uncomfortable here from the first, and, in my opinion, it has always been a potential powder keg -- one which is now about to blow, it would appear.< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:43:23 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles njc Donna wrote: > > Donna, no longer the only Joni fan in Texas!! Now watch out Donna. Mack is back in the Lone Star State and don't forget Sybil in Dallas. mack np:Commodores-greatest [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 4_1_203.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb005] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:51:34 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: RE: How I came upon Joni's Music Sweet story Hot Pants!! Thanks for sharing it. db >>> Steve Polifka 12/10/2003 10:33:50 AM >>> >Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:31:58 -0600 >To: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) >From: Steve Polifka >Subject: RE: How I came upon Joni's Music >In-Reply-To: > >At 03:10 PM 12/10/2003 +0000, you wrote: >> >>Personally, I am interested in how people have come to find Joni, what has >>touched them about her music and what use they have made of many of her >>ideas in their lives. \>With love and good intention >>Anita >> > >Hi Anita! > Oh, I thought I'd share how I came into Joni with you. >I first heard Joni's Chelsea Morning and BYT on the radio- I loved her voice, even at 14. The latter, which was being played on the radio at the time, was impossible to find in the small town I lived in. So I went to the hardware store (which sold records at the time) to get BYT. Yea, I got it all right. >There on my stereo was The Neighborhood singing it with their melody scalping harmonies! Oh, was I disappointed it wasn't the Joni I heard on the radio. They never played the Nieghborhood's version. > Then in high school, as a Junior, my friend Kim would write me notes and lyrics from Joni's songs, and I loved it. But it took me another year to actually get my first Joni album: Court and Spark. > Oh My God! Help Me was on the radio- and I still think her voice is just heaven on that song-I used to lay on the floor with my head between my sister's stereo to listen to that album play over and over. I couldn't get enough. > Before then, I had been listening to such bands as Alice Cooper, and Uriah Heep, the Doors, Stones, Cat Stevens and the Mamas and the Papas. Well after Joni, I couldn't go back- at least to the rock bands- as a steady diet. >My tastes had changed. Instead I looked for music that satisfied my intelect as well as being melodic. > So every month after Miles of Aisles came out, I went backwards and bought her catalog- FTR, Blue, Ladies of the Canyon, etc., giving myself a month to digest each of them in turn, until I had 7 Mitchell albums on rotation with >some of my others. > And I bought all her music books. I learned dozens of her songs- > Then the wait was on. When was her next golden egg to appear? I'd watch all the music rags with a vengeance, and cut out any clippings I could find. Scouring the music stores, I could usually talk them out of a poster or two, >if they had one. My biggest treasure is my Hejira poster, which was a little beat up and stappled on a music store wall, with some girl there so willing to save it for me because I "must be a big fan of hers..." > And I still am. Jeff always has a few Joni in his car, so anytime anywhere, I can listen to her indescribably delicious music... >Hugs to you, >Steve This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:56:16 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: A Response (NJC) Ashara wrote: astounded, and deeply saddened > that > > my actions and ways of doing business are put into question at all. - --Pretty amazing to me as well. This woman hosted Jonifest at HER HOME! Doesn't that mean anything? I don't like one overnight guest, usually. Have complete faith in her honesty and if the truth be told and right is right, she deserves more than this for all her hard work. Much more. Very shabby treatment. And ditto for that sweet Mags. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:01:08 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles njc Mack where are you? I thought you were still in Wisconsin. And I haven't met Sybil. Thanks for letting me know!! (Please insert fortune teller voice here) I sense a Texas Jonifest in our future...ha ha db >>> "mackoliver" 12/10/2003 2:43:23 PM >>> Donna wrote: > > Donna, no longer the only Joni fan in Texas!! Now watch out Donna. Mack is back in the Lone Star State and don't forget Sybil in Dallas. mack np:Commodores-greatest [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 4_1_203.gif] [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb005] This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:02:16 -0600 From: "mackoliver" Subject: Re: Here we go again njc Jim wrote: made me uncomfortable here from the first, and, in my opinion, it has always > been a potential powder keg -- one which is now about to blow, it would > appear. then why did you stay? And furthermore, this 'about to blow' situation, as you put it, has nothing to do with anyones personal lives. J(oni)M(itchell)D(iscussion)L(ist). "Joni Only" is not the answer for me -- > nor should it be my alternative -- as my interests are more wide-ranging as > they pertain to music and other arts enjoyed by fans of Joni Mitchell. - -So you decide what content is acceptable? Think of the music content we are likely missing > because of this touchy-feely close-knit group thing that goes on ad nauseum. - --How could the content you find objectionable possibly affect the amount of musical content? That isn't logical. This post made me nauseous. Maybe using the delete key would be wise. Joni's music is what led me to this list and that same music made me want to explore my feelings and those of others. To complain about that isn't logical either. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:01:24 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: (Northeast Jonifest) Please stop njc - some sound financial advice hi please - dont for any moment think im trying to stir up. thats not my intention & certainly wasnt the intention of my last post. it has been taken the wrong way & im sorry that that happened. mags / ashara - you are making what may well constitute a public gathering of funds in broadcasting an appeal through this forum. since you are running the process through a company, it moves out of the realm of the gathering of funds for a club etc, & suddenly becomes subject to laws etc. these laws lay numerous requirements on a company doing so, and also on its directors and members / shareholders. the general rule is that funds gathered for or held on behalf of charities, or any other person, are not kept in the same account in which funds for the everyday running of the business are held, but are kept in a separate account which is subject to a whole set of laws. when buying a property, the transferring lawyers hold your payment in a trust / escrow account - same principle. while what you are doing is probably not on a large enough scale to warrant any trouble, you really do need to protect yourselves. have you cleared this usage of your bank account with your auditors? if you have, well & good - they will probably be far more knowledgable about this than me. also - it could probably be justified as a loan account, rather than a fundraising, but then there would be no reason for routing it through your company. of course, laws vary from country to country. i think michael with the foundation he has set up would probably know more about your local situation there than i would. what applies here may not apply in the usa. however, i most certainly would not do, nor recomend doing, what you are currently doing. i know you mean well - however - not everyone may feel the same. i am not being nasty, or critical, or judgemental in any way. mags / ashara, my concern is solely that you dont wind up with all kinds of trouble for your good intentions, but somehow my attempt to convey some kind of financial advice has turned me into some kind of bad guy. (trying to inject some levity here but probably failing miserably) and just for the record - i speak from a background of an honours degree in auditing, incorporating accountancy and company law, and many years of work as an auditor and financial manager, having done literally hundreds of financial statements and tax returns, as well as designing, installing and maintaining numerous different type of accounting systems. ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:12:49 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Here we go again njc From: "Kate Bennett" > You have posted before about being uncomfortable with the close friendships that have grown among some members & that is your own perogative, but to lay blame for this temporary discord (of which there have been several in the past & this one too shall pass) on the personal friendships is an HUGE error of perception, imo... > Thanks for writing, Kate. We've had some off-list correspondence over the years and I consider you a friend. That said ... why is it that almost everyone, including you, cannot "get" what it is I am trying to say? I blame myself for my poor verbalizing skills. The close friendships that have grown among some members here are not, in the least, what make me uncomfortable. I have met a few people who are now close friends through the JMDL, too. I am delighted for those who've met friends through this forum. What I cannot fathom is why, in the sole case of the JMDL, the atmosphere here is such that those friendships are almost *expected* to be carried out in public view, on an international forum. It is not the friendships I object to, see? It is the fact that so much which should be kept personal, if it is sincere and selfless, is made public. Am I not getting through still? Probably not. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:12:29 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Dreams do come true (NJC) Hi Joni family! I'll try not to make this too lengthy, but I wanted to share this with you..... I am in negotiations to sign a contract with an independent label here in D.C.! This means I will finally be able to finish this CD project! The name of the label is Platinum Bound Records. I actually met the VP while I was doing the Anita Baker musical in September. I was told by the playwright that someone he knew wanted to record me. I didn't realize who it was. They both stopped by the office Monday and the VP told me he really liked my CD! This is an up and coming label, but I am impressed with their vision and with their knowledge of the business. They have their own photo studio, their own equipment to print and press mass numbers of CD's, a production company to produce the videos and connections to get me into the jazz festivals (especially in New Orleans, Paz!) I am in shock but this is definitely going to happen. I can't quit my day job yet because it is a small label, but they have big plans for me. If nothing else happens, I will at least get a finished product! The best news it that plans are already in the works to have me open for one of my favorite groups Frankie Beverly and Maze (Joy and Pain) in February! I have a band to back me that is employed by the label. I am in serious shock as is my family and need to adjust to the idea of touring and making music all the time. How happy I've been for anyone who gets to do it on a full time basis. So that is it for me. I'm sorry that I am still catching up on my digests so I will write more things relevant to what's going on in the digests another time. I did want to let MG know that my thoughts and prayers are with her as she goes through battle. Take care MG!!! Love, Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:17:25 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: NJC - Best of '03 Hi Catherine >>>>you wrote > Hey, Ron - there's an article on Rory Block in this > month's Acoustic Guitar magazine and a transcription > of one of her songs. I had never heard of her before > you mentioned her - she is one good-looking woman too! if you go to her website - www.roryblock.com you can listen to some clips of her music for free (mmm is it joni content now???) as well as see some of the many rave reviews ron - who wont rest till hes converted at least a couple of listers to rory :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:35:32 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Here we go again njc I consider you a friend too jim & hope perhaps to have the opportunity to meet you in person sometime! Thanks for clarifying how you feel about the friendships...yes, now I understand more how you feel...still, your objection as to what ought to be public or not is still your personal preference based on your personality... One thing that I am not sure what you mean is your use of the word 'expected')... Seems to me this is a perception issue, not a reality: >What I cannot fathom is why, in the sole case of the JMDL, the atmosphere here is such that those friendships are almost *expected* to be carried out in public view, on an international forum.< > It is not the friendships I object to, see? It is the fact that so much which should be kept personal, if it is sincere and selfless, is made public. Am I not getting through still? Probably not. Best, Jim< Yes you are getting through, but my take is that this is still about what YOU are comfortable with vs what others are comfortable with... I do not understand why something that is sincere & selfless cannot be spoken outloud to many as some are just more comfortable in crowds than others (as a metaphor)... Must personal things always be whispered in secret to only one person? Or can they sometimes be spoken aloud to the world? Is that not up to each person to determine for themselves? Are you subscribing motivations to those who speak personally in public rather than allow that people have different personalities & comfort levels in how they communicate? IMO, to each his own...nody is expecting you to get personal if it is not your choice... And if you do not want to read other personal stuff that is your choice... However, there may be others who choose to get personal... (How does one define personal anyway... Would stories of people meeting joni be considered personal?) My point is that everyone has their own comfort level about talking to strangers, like I said I am used to telling people I don't even know about my life... That is something I had to get used to as a performer but I realize few may feel like I do... Still it is about CHOICE & not judging others for how personal or impersonal they want to be, regardless of whether this is international or not... I hope I have responded better to your point... If you need to clarify further please don't hesitate! Thanks again for your response jim! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:39:06 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Here we go again njc Am I not getting through still? Probably not. Best, Jim I think you are "getting through" fine. Just that people don't agree with you. Please do not presume that if you can just somehow "get through" to us dense people that we all will agree with you. Life is for learning. As mack says, use the delete key for what you don't want to read. People post what they want and people make it the place they want it to be and if this group of people has evolved this way, cool by me. It is not for me to change what other people want or desire or get from the experience. I surf along at my own level and interact where I want to and stay silent where I want and ignore what I feel like and don't care to want to change other's experiencces and expressions to match my expectations. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:55:58 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? Hi folks I have to admit to a personal failing, in that I don't actually own a legit copy of HOSL. I have a CD-R and a rough old pre-recorded cassette, both of which sound very thin and 'edgy'. Some of you will know that I work in a music studio as a mastering engineer. Every now and then, I get the urge to 'remaster' (for my own benefit) an album in my collection. So, I was thinking of doing a remastering job on 'Hissing', but I need to start with the best commercially available version. So my question is - What's regarded as the best available edition? Is there a HDCD edition of it to be had? Some initial explorations with my CD-R copy seem to show very promising results, so I've definitely got the urge to tackle this now. If it bears fruit - would anyone be interested in a copy? Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:42:39 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: here we go again - the nature of this list (njc) I subbed to this list about four years ago, have never been a regular poster, and usually only had time to scan through the digests enough to vaguely keep up with the chat. Most of the time, I've found that by the time I got involved in a thread and had something to say about it, it had already been said (and usually more eloquently!) Nevertheless, I have stayed here looking in, enjoying the discussions, and, in a superficial way getting to know a little about some of the regular posters. And I've liked what I found. Warmth, insight, intelligence, humour, and a diverse bunch of backgrounds that open windows on the world to me. I finally got around to travelling to the Northeast Jonifest for the first time this year, and finally met many of you. It was a wonderful experience, my only regret being that I didn't have enough time to talk longer with everyone. This is a family of sorts, and in just the same way as families, there are almost bound to be bust-ups from time to time. The important thing is to work to make sure that they blow over. To forgive, and move on and nurture the many good things we can share. Lama's post certainly went down like a lead balloon, and I disagreed with it completely. Ashara and Mags rightly were very hurt by it, and a lot of people jumped to their defence. Other posts about 'opening the books' turn out to be misguided. The LLC books are not ours to look at. End of argument. But Lama then did a very difficult thing ('specially for us men), and apologised sincerely for the hurt he had caused. I respect that. It takes a big man to recognise and admit a mistake. I'm not saying that that wipes the slate clean, but hopefully it will allow the injured parties to move on. This storm is likely to rumble on for a few days yet, I guess, but I hope everyone will try to make an effort to let go of it. Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:59:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Here we go again njc Jim Leonard wrote: > What I cannot fathom is why, in the sole case of the JMDL, the > atmosphere here is such that those friendships are almost *expected* > to be carried out in public view, on an international forum. It is > not the friendships I object to, see? It is the fact that so much > which should be kept personal,if it is sincere and selfless, is made > public. Am I not getting through still? Probably not. You're getting through, Jim. The thing is, though, it's just your opinion that the personal should not be made public. Perhaps, as you insinuate, everything here is not sincere and selfless. Or maybe, just maybe ... people want to promote and share the friendships and sense of community they've found here, with the hope that others will want to join and benefit too. Just a thought. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:18:51 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Here we go again njc From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" > I think you are "getting through" fine. Just that people don't agree with you. Please do not presume that if you can just somehow "get through" to us dense people that we all will agree with you. > I don't think I am getting through fine, Vince, and Kate just confirmed it be writing to say she now has a better understanding of my point(s). As for your remark about "dense people," I have blamed myself for my own inability to express myself well. At no time have I flamed anyone, or mentioned anyone, besides Kate, by name. I feel that some of the posts in response to me have been less courteous. > As mack says, use the delete key for what you don't want to read. > The delete key is not an option for me, as subscribing to the list in "real time" (single messages) is not an option for me. By virtue of being, for all intents and purposes, computer-less for 4 days a week (three of those in a row), by necessity I am a digester. I choose not to open my mailbox after several days to find hundreds (thousands?) of individual messages. I am a digester on each of the lists I subscribe to. You know? I really don't care that much what the JMDL does or doesn't do, as it pertains to my personal enjoyment of it. I do take from it that which I want, and scroll past the rest. I guess I am mostly playing devil's advocate, trying to convince people that they have turned this public discussion list -- to which visitors to the Joni Mitchell website are directed -- into a forum dominated by a relatively small group of friends, wishing each other happy birthdays and consoling each other in public and screaming at each other when feelings are hurt or personas are threatened (which is inevitable in the approach, I feel). That really is it for me, for now. Back to life and bi-weekly lurkdom. Happy holidays, everybody. Sincerely, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:31:39 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Here we go again njc In a message dated 10/12/2003 21:19:39 GMT Standard Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: << What I cannot fathom is why, in the sole case of the JMDL, the atmosphere here is such that those friendships are almost *expected* to be carried out in public view, on an international forum. It is not the friendships I object to, see? It is the fact that so much which should be kept personal, if it is sincere and selfless, is made public. Am I not getting through still? Probably not. >> You're getting through loud and clear - you only *think* you're being misunderstood. At least speaking for myself, it was clear from your first post what you were complaining about. The first sentence of the short extract I have quoted above is, frankly, arrant nonsense. There are a LOT of posts and interactions that are *not* shared with the list (again I say this from personal experience), and to suggest that there's some unwritten edict that intimate posts have to be shared list-wide is simply preposterous. You obviously have your own issues with people sharing personal stuff on list, but you are not going to get people to stop doing that. May I suggest that you take whatever action you need to take to avoid having to read such posts, and give up your doomed attempt to mould the list to suit you. As some wise person once said, if the world is covered in nails, rather than carpeting the entire world, just get yourself a pair of good shoes. Azeem in London NP: Amy Winehouse - Moody's Mood for Love ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:49:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: just stop (njc) I know you didn't intend this as funny but LOL anne! You go girl! >I'll put this bluntly. For everyone who is just so damn fascinated with accounting, go take a class if you're that interested. Otherwise, shut up.< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:07:37 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? HOSL does exist in an HDCD version. To my ears that and the vinyl are the best existing versions. How do you remaster without master tapes? Oh, I just looked down and see you use inverted commas with the term 'remaster'. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Martin Giles > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:56 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? > > > Hi folks > > I have to admit to a personal failing, in that I don't actually > own a legit > copy of HOSL. I have a CD-R and a rough old pre-recorded cassette, both of > which sound very thin and 'edgy'. Some of you will know that I work in a > music studio as a mastering engineer. Every now and then, I get > the urge to > 'remaster' (for my own benefit) an album in my collection. So, I was > thinking of doing a remastering job on 'Hissing', but I need to start with > the best commercially available version. > > So my question is - What's regarded as the best available > edition? Is there > a HDCD edition of it to be had? > > Some initial explorations with my CD-R copy seem to show very promising > results, so I've definitely got the urge to tackle this now. If it bears > fruit - would anyone be interested in a copy? > > Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 00:08:54 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? Hi, Martin! Yes, there's an edition HDCD from The Hissing Of Summer Lawns: that's the one I've got, bought from some canadian seller (www.armedio.com) that features many Joni ones at very affordable costs (including shipping): you must note that here, in Spain, finding any SIQUOMB's album in stores it's pure serendipity :-) I'm not very audiophile, though, so I couldn't tell you the difference between those HDCD editions and the prior ones, but I recall being (this question) discussed on list (mainly 13 & 14 March 2003) Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: The Boho Dance PS: I'm interested in anything from you (you'd be corresponded, dear), mainly in that "Topographic Puddles" one! - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Martin Giles" Para: Enviado: miircoles, 10 de diciembre de 2003 22:55 Asunto: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? > Hi folks > > I have to admit to a personal failing, in that I don't actually own a legit > copy of HOSL. I have a CD-R and a rough old pre-recorded cassette, both of > which sound very thin and 'edgy'. Some of you will know that I work in a > music studio as a mastering engineer. Every now and then, I get the urge to > 'remaster' (for my own benefit) an album in my collection. So, I was > thinking of doing a remastering job on 'Hissing', but I need to start with > the best commercially available version. > > So my question is - What's regarded as the best available edition? Is there > a HDCD edition of it to be had? > > Some initial explorations with my CD-R copy seem to show very promising > results, so I've definitely got the urge to tackle this now. If it bears > fruit - would anyone be interested in a copy? > > Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:42:59 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? Thanks Richard - I'll grab myself a copy. A true remaster would, of course, require going back to the original master tapes. Sometimes they are no longer in existance - and with these personal projects I can only work from the best available commercial copy I can find. The purpose of true remastering is to be as faithful as possible to the original production, doing everything possible to bring that out in it's best light. What I'm doing with these projects is looking to see if I can reveal the music better than was originally done. Sounds a bit arrogant, but it's only what I do from day to day with normal mastering; I'm presented with mixes which, for whatever reasons, sometimes aren't sounding quite as good as they could. It's my job to recognise what, if anything, can be done to improve the audio, so that it can be presented in the best possible light. If I get a copy of the HDCD HOSL, it will likely be an accurate representation of the original masters, but still may have the thinness that I've heard on my cassette and CD-R, if that was how the original masters sound. I can give it a listen, and see if I can still bring some more out. Martin. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Flynn To: Martin Giles ; Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:07 PM Subject: RE: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? > HOSL does exist in an HDCD version. To my ears that and the vinyl are the > best existing versions. > > How do you remaster without master tapes? Oh, I just looked down and see > you use inverted commas with the term 'remaster'. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > > Martin Giles > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:56 PM > > To: joni@smoe.org > > Subject: The Hissing Of Summer Lawns - remastering? > > > > > > Hi folks > > > > I have to admit to a personal failing, in that I don't actually > > own a legit > > copy of HOSL. I have a CD-R and a rough old pre-recorded cassette, both of > > which sound very thin and 'edgy'. Some of you will know that I work in a > > music studio as a mastering engineer. Every now and then, I get > > the urge to > > 'remaster' (for my own benefit) an album in my collection. So, I was > > thinking of doing a remastering job on 'Hissing', but I need to start with > > the best commercially available version. > > > > So my question is - What's regarded as the best available > > edition? Is there > > a HDCD edition of it to be had? > > > > Some initial explorations with my CD-R copy seem to show very promising > > results, so I've definitely got the urge to tackle this now. If it bears > > fruit - would anyone be interested in a copy? > > > > Martin. In London. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #613 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)