From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #608 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, December 8 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 608 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: trust ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] Please stop co-mingling funds [tantra-apso ] Please stop... NJC [Emiliano ] Re: No Idea! (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] RE: trust njc [Catherine McKay ] video links (was No Idea!) ["Paul Castle" ] RE: Please stop co-mingling funds, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Game for a Sunday ["TheWizardOfIs" ] Re: Game for a Sunday [Catherine McKay ] Do You Mr Jones? [Gertus@aol.com] RE: Please stop... NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: Say it ain't so Bob! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: (NJC) Politics explained ["kakki" ] computer game question (njc) ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: Game for a Sunday [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: computer game question (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] mg njc ["gene mock" ] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! [Catherine McKay ] double named songs [vince ] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["kakki" ] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["kakki" ] Re: Border patrol njc ["kakki" ] Today in History: December 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: December 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:58:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: trust okay i had no idea jim sent his message to the big list... what a shame... jim, i won't repeat what i posted on the other list other than to say that i am sad to hear you criticise such a selfless & charitable act on behalf of mg who is ill... i am sorry you have interpreted such a good thing to be bad.. actually i have been a bit concerned about you lately as your posts have seemed a bit off kilter...i hope you will seek help from anyone here or elsewhere that you trust as there seems to be a lot of backlash coming your way over this issue...good luck... to everyone else i plan to send som $$ to help mg & i trust mags & ashara implicity to handle this... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 09:23:09 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Please stop co-mingling funds I am dumbfounded. Completely. This list, over the last two years, has lost the loving feeling it had. (yes i know there are exceptions) it is not the same. yes we have had our fights, but this one would NEVER have come up before. What has happened to us? Life is SHORT and none of us know when our time is up. Our lives, all of us, will END, no doubt. Maybe we need to think about that before we make an issue of anything. How important is it? A hand of love is reached out for MG and her family and it gets abused. How very very sad. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 11:14:54 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Please stop co-mingling funds, njc On 7 Dec 2003, at 2:56, Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > My problem is with the fundraising. Why would we even consider > aggregating > funds for MG's kids with non-refundable deposits and scholarships to > JoniFest? Here in the US we are keen on checks and balances. There's > never > been reporting from the LLC to the community at large. There's > certainly no > broad-based decision making, yet it's becoming a de facto JMDL general > fund. This is disappointing. Here's something that's been missed too. PayPal is not a bank. Funds directed to AsharaProducLCC@aol.com via PayPal don't even technically enter the LLC until they're shifted out of PayPal to Ashara's bank. Just because Ashara's offered her PayPal account as a convenient & familiar destination for the funds, you assumed that all the funds will be going through the LLC, which they may or may not in fact do. Lastly, even if the funds do go through Ashara's books, how is it *any* different from anyone else offering their PayPal account for this purpose and stumping up a cheque at the end of it? Probably the only difference is that in the case of the LLC, Ashara has to do formal book-keeping to track incomings to and outgoings from the LLC account, and that's a degree more formality that most people will have with their own private accounts. Back to checks and balances... I'd say that's a good thing, right? Please get a life over this one Jim, and quickly. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:23:45 -0500 From: "Loa Nickloy" Subject: njc America??? Wally i know it's terrible how most of Americans have become angry and hateful.I must tell you some always were and made their children the same way.The attack on the Twin Towers gave every bigot a excuse to behave as if they were the only ones here that had a right to say what they felt.So I am sorry that happened to you.I still get flagged at every airport.I look a bit unusal.I got my nose pierced on my 50th bithday.And i love jeans and clothes that are pretty but not of the norm.I do allright here because i live in Toledo.Home of Jamie Farr and Danny Thomas both Lebanese.So we have have good people here that did not go nuts.Still you can feel the the anger from bigots. Sorry.Just ignore them,if you can unless they harrass you. Loa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:27:15 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Please stop... NJC Hi, good people!, Hi, good Jim! Please, interrupt this: I think, as many other members, that Jim's last post wasn't appropiate, really unfortunate, but I also think it was in good intention, aimed not towards Ashara's trustefulness, but towards make thinks a little clearer. Well, it has conveniently answered by Mags & Ashara: that's very good for me, very good for Jim too, I guess. What I mean is: stop dissing *in any way* Jim's posts or intentions or humour... I really appreciate all your posts, Jim: sometimes they're not in the same state of humour I am, but I know you're (along many many others) one of the pilllars of these community: I take this chance to thank you for your posts regarding depression, the notes in the Geffen set,... truly each and (almost) everyone of your posts. It's the first year I'm in this list, yes, but I think it has a real friendly timing; occasional disputes aren't too many, don't you? All my best to all of you: Emiliano ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 07:45:20 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: No Idea! (NJC) >>>>From: "Paul Castle" I had no idea that Donald Rumsfeld was a poet until I saw some footage last night on a UK TV Show ('Have I Got News For you') of him reciting what to Americans is probably one of his most famous works - 'The Unknown' - - -Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know We don't know. I found a selection of his 'Collected Works' at http://slate.msn.com/id/2081042/#ContinueArticle My personal faves - (I can really relate to the first of these!!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 'A Confession' - - -May 16, 2001, interview with the New York Times Once in a while, I'm standing here, doing something. And I think, "What in the world am I doing here?" It's a big surprise. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and the first verse (haiku?) of his poem 'The Digital Revolution' - - -June 9, 2001, following European trip "Oh my goodness gracious, What you can buy off the Internet In terms of overhead photography!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and finally, his 'piece de resistance', IMHO 'Clarity' - - -Feb. 28, 2003, Department of Defense briefing I think what you'll find, I think what you'll find is, Whatever it is we do substantively, There will be near-perfect clarity As to what it is. And it will be known, And it will be known to the Congress, And it will be known to you, Probably before we decide it, But it will be known. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Reviewing his 'Recent Works', poetry critic Hart Seely writes: "Rumsfeld's poetry is paradoxical: It uses playful language to address the most somber subjects: war, terrorism, mortality. Much of it is about indirection and evasion: He never faces his subjects head on but weaves away, letting inversions and repetitions confuse and beguile. His work, with its dedication to the fractured rhythms of the plainspoken vernacular, is reminiscent of William Carlos Williams'. Some readers may find that Rumsfeld's gift for offhand, quotidian pronouncements is as entrancing as Frank O'Hara's."<<< This is priceless stuff, Paul, and is clearly the reason he was awarded the "Foot in Mouth" prize by the Plain English Campaign which he richly deserves. (btw, thanks so much for the Love Actually video link. It's the clip which I missed when it was shown on "Parky" and I've been trying to find it since. Of course, I've now seen the film but it's nice to watch that part again. Despite all that I had read about the Joni content, I was unprepared for the extent of the second Joni section.) Best wishes Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:05:48 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: trust njc Kate, Janet (and Deanna Ivy) and Emiliano - thank you for your heart and humour and humility. And your calmness and consideration. You are just three (no, four) of the reasons why the jmdl is such a great place to be. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:59:12 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: video links (was No Idea!) Jacky wrote: > (btw, thanks so much for the Love Actually video link. It's the clip which I > missed when it was shown on "Parky" and I've been trying to find it since. Of course, I've now seen the film but it's nice to watch that part again. Despite all that I had read about the Joni content, I was unprepared for the extent of the second Joni section.) I found the second Joni section incredibly moving - something about the way she (Emma Thompson) was standing - along with the situation - and the music, of course. Talking of video clips, I found a few more links this week (which have probably already been posted on the jmdl before - but I had missed) of 'Woman of Heart and Mind - The Life and Times of Joni Mitchell http://www.cbc.ca/lifeandtimes/mitchell.html - - really hope I get to see the whole of this one day - and some out-takes not used in the American Masters series http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j_footage.html and Joni - singing (and dancing) with Seal on 'How Do You Stop' http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/videos.asp?artistID=1018224 very best to you PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:20:36 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Please stop co-mingling funds, njc Wow. It appears I'm the only one who balked at this one. When I anger so many of my friends with just one post it usually means I'm WAY, WAY out there in the weeds by myself. Would you guys please let me think about this for awhile instead of giving me more heat? Just do what you feel is best and let me think about this, will ya? All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:52:38 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Silly political thing - njc http://www.rathergood.com/laibach/ ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:01:40 -0000 From: "TheWizardOfIs" Subject: Game for a Sunday Here's a bit of fun - or, in Capt Bob's case, an idea for a new cd. How many RECORDED songs can you think of which have the exact title as a Joni tune but isn't that tune (if you see what I mean)? I'm struggling at one but, then again, I have a very little brain. Oh, apologies for Joni content. AMO ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 12:20:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Game for a Sunday --- TheWizardOfIs wrote: > Here's a bit of fun - or, in Capt Bob's case, an > idea for a new cd. > > How many RECORDED songs can you think of which have > the exact title as a Joni > tune but isn't that tune (if you see what I mean)? > > I'm struggling at one but, then again, I have a very > little brain. > > Oh, apologies for Joni content. > > AMO Apologizing for Joni content? Have we sunk so low? LOL. Your brain is probably just the right size but, like most of ours, may not get enough use ;) I can't think of a darn thing but will let that part of the brain wander off and graze for a while & will get back to y'all if it comes back with anything useful. By the way, do you have a name? Being nosy here, but what does AMO stand for? (Just a first name, maybe?) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:47:14 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Do You Mr Jones? I've been reading the above book, sub-titled "Bob Dylan with the Poets and Professors." Don't know if it's been mentioned here before but it's a series of essays all written by celebrated British or American academics on various aspects of the Bob Dylan culture. One I particularly like is by Simon Armitage, a poet who teaches at Manchester Metropolitan University, which describes his gradual conversion to Dylanism from a diet of conventional British rock and pop. He makes an interesting point about the way Dylan has been embraced in academic circles while other very worthy contributors to music culture are neglected. "Bob Dylan appears to be the musician of choice among the teaching staff of many an institute of further education. It's quite possible to hear his lyrics being bandied around in the senior common room, amid discussions of prosody and symbolism. Mention of his name signifies a dignified and recherche understanding of popular culture, but nothing as crass as an interest in pop music or rock'n'roll. On some very basic level, it's a man thing. I don't listen to much Joni Mitchell myself, but from the times I have, I know she's a talented guitarist, that her compositions and orchestrations are extremely complex, that her lyrics are of a consistently high standard, and that she can sing a bit too. Sound like anyone we know? She came out of the same rock-folk background not long after Dylan, but I don't see Joni on the syllabus." Good point. The book's worth a read, although some chapters are somewhat pretentious. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:33:34 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Please stop... NJC Just an observation from someone who's been on this list for four years...I think what has needed to be said has been said and that further adominishment of Jim by every single listmember is not going to accomplish anything positive and seems more detrimental than helpful. The fund was created to lift someone up and to offer some help. None of us are perfect and we are all fallible. Instead of venting on Jim, maybe consider donating some money and think of others ways in which we can help people and show our support for each other. Victor, home sick for the day NP: Dallas vs Philadelphia Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:54:16 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Say it ain't so Bob! NJC ***Dave: I thought "Everything Must Go" is a great album, and "Lunch With Gina" is my favorite song on there! :~) Dave.*** Well, to each his own, Dave...as you know I'm a huge SD fan, and after hearing this one half a dozen times NOTHING sticks. It has a good SOUND, of course, but there's just nothing that sticks to my ribs. It all sounds like one long song. Bob NP: Sun Kil Moon, "Ghosts Of The Great Highway" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:03:52 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! **I'll just return to displaying my flag only on appropriate holidays.*** I guess ultimately it's a personal decision, how often and when to display the flag...my only point was that we shouldn't be intimidated into NOT displaying it for whatever reason, ya know? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:24:13 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: (NJC) Politics explained LOL Lori! I've seen variations on this one before. Does kind of sum it up LOL Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 16:29:24 -0500 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: computer game question (njc) Hey listers. I am looking for a computer game, but I can't remember the title or the company who makes it. It is a movie trivia game with actual movie clips. I saw it advertised at the movies prior to viewing The Station Agent. I couldn't obviously write it down as the person who I went with is to be the recipient. Any help with this would be appreciated. I searched Amazon and did a google on it to no avail. Sue, anxiously counting the days left to shop! ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:58:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Game for a Sunday ***How many RECORDED songs can you think of which have the exact title as a Joni tune but isn't that tune (if you see what I mean)?*** I know what you mean, Amo...I call it the "Sammy Hagar" complex as he recorded his own song titled "Both Sides Now"...not a cover of Joni's song. There's a bunch of these out there...once I made a list of artists and challenged the JMDL to find the non-Joni songs with Joni song titles, like ELO's "Night In The City", Artie Shaw's "Man From Mars", and don't you know there's even ANOTHER song out there recorded titled "The Last Time I Saw Richard"? It's twoo, it's twoo! Maurice Mattei recorded it in 1997. Of course, the simpler titles like "Blue", "River" and so on are similar to others, as Wally pointed out, Lucinda Williams recorded a "Blue", but not Joni's song. A polish guitarist recorded a "Song For Sharon", and when I asked him about it, he said that it was an original composition BUT that he LOVED Joni! Anyways, there is a humongo-list of songs that fit in this category. It makes searching for Joni covers a challenge. Thank God for HOSL, those titles are so unique for the most part...but I can tell you that another "Shadows & Light" has been recorded by Wilson Phillips. For the most part, Joni's titles are as unique as her songs themselves, so that's a definite plus! Bob, back from the beach and catching up! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:50:23 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: computer game question (njc) Is this it??? Friday, December 6, 2002 Movie trivia DVD game is habit-forming By WILLIAM ARNOLD SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER MOVIE CRITIC Most of the buzz one hears about the fascinating, locally developed, movie-trivia game, "Scene It?" ($49.95) refers to it as a "video game," which it's certainly not, at least in the traditional sense. More properly, it's a "DVD game" -- a video-enhanced version of "Trivial Pursuit" that uses a special DVD and your own television with a board, game cards and a pair of dice to test your movie knowledge. The idea is to move around the board to a winning destination propelled by the customized dice, two sets of game cards and questions asked by the DVD, some based on actual movie clips it shows the players. So you might be asked to view a clip from "Planes, Trains & Automobiles" or "Return of the Pink Panther" and then be asked to name the title, the actors, or maybe how many extras were sporting mustaches. Or it might "remove" the actors from a shot of, say, "Alien" (so that you see the background and the actor's clothes) and then ask you to identify the movie; or give a sound bite and ask you to name its source. Or it could spit out five or six movie titles and ask you to place them in chronological order, or give you six character names and ask you to name the actor who played all of them. Other times all the players will be challenged to see who can be the first to identify a movie star from his high school yearbook, or a maze of dots that gradually come together to form his famous face. Or they might jointly draw a "Wheel of Fortune"-like question that gives the blank spaces of a movie title and starts filling it in one letter at a time until one of the players can shout it out. Altogether, the game -- produced by Screenlife Inc. of Seattle with the cooperation of five major studios -- contains thousands of questions in more than a dozen categories; its DVD has a built-in, programmable timer; and it's adaptable for playing one-on-one, in teams at parties or alone, as solitaire. It's great fun, and pleasantly addicting, but this first edition has its bugs. For instance, with an internal shuffling device on the DVD, the same question is not supposed to come with any frequency. But I got the same annoying question (" 'Stupid and Stupider' could be the alternate title for what movie?") six times in the 10 games I played, requiring a certain laborious rebooting of the question each time. An even bigger drawback for old movie buffs -- which would seem the target audience for this game -- is the fact that the questions are overwhelmingly about movies of the past few decades. In my 10 test games, I had questions about "Magnolia," "Scream I, II & III," and "Notting Hill" but none at all about "Citizen Kane," "Intolerance" or even "Gone With the Wind." Sometimes, the game will even penalize you for knowing too much, such as the question that asks you to put six movies, including "The Thin Red Line," in the chronological order of their theatrical release. The correct answer puts "Line" last, at 1998. And if you were smart enough to know that the first version of the movie came out in 1964, and placed it first, you'd have been dead wrong. Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 17:03:55 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: One degree of separation (for AOL users) ***boy, i suck at the degree game*** No way Wally, you did great! As I mentioned earlier, Lucinda's "Blue" & Joni's "Blue" are 2 different things. BUT Greg Liesz played pedal steel on "Car Wheels" and he also played on Joni's 1998 tour. His pedal steel solo on "Black Crow" was a BIG highlight for me. As for Cohen, your connection is cool because they certainly performed together in those 60's folk festivals. Also, lots of singers (Judy Collins, Jennifer Warnes, to name 2) have covered both Joni & Leonard. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:54:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: In the weeds njc >When I anger so many of my friends with just one post it usually means I'm WAY, WAY out there in the weeds by myself.< I think it takes great courage to admit this jim...we all have our filters that we interpret other people's actions & words through...i know I have to be very vigilant that I do not project a motivation of my own imagining onto someone else...i am writing this in the hopes of adding something positive to this discussion for truly 'life is for learning' & if this is not a learning moment I don't know what is... I have found myself in the weeds before & have always found it very helpful to say the words 'I am sorry'... Even if it is a situation where I feel the other person may have played a part in the misunderstanding.. it is for ME & my inner peace, that I say those words because it is freeing to let go of a hurt or resentment... Jim I know you have been open about your struggle with depression, I recently learned that one of my close friends has struggled with depression all of his life & in his case, when he was suffering from it, he became distrustful of others actions, sometimes paranoid...this it turns out was a symptom of his 'disease' & made him someone he really was not when he took his meds... I am not saying this to point a finger, only to offer my own experience in hope it may shed some healing light... peace, kate ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 16:38:22 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: mg njc Could someone give me an update on what's happening w/ MG? I only live 30 miles away from her. Thanks gene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:39:37 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > **I'll just return to displaying my flag only on > appropriate holidays.*** > > I guess ultimately it's a personal decision, how > often and when to display > the flag...my only point was that we shouldn't be > intimidated into NOT > displaying it for whatever reason, ya know? > > Bob Here's an alien's point of view on that. I have noticed that Americans are really flag-happy, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Let's face it - you have a friggin' beautiful flag. Betsy Ross done good. On the other hand, flag-waving can be a symbol of over-nationalism, hypernationalism, whatever you want to call it - but not necessarily. Canadians never used to be that flag-happy, but have become moreso in the last ten years or so, and I think even moreso moreso since 9/11, sort of an echo to what was going on in the US (in fact, since 9/11, you see a lot of American flags alongside Canadian ones here, less so these days than in the months right after 9/11.) I see nothing wrong with being proud to be an American (or Canadian, or Australian, or whatever country you're from). I doubt whether any of us would like to think that our homeland sucked. So raise the flag if you want to, and don't if you don't want to. Capisce? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 20:26:25 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] ***THE AMAZING MARY GRACE (MGVal) FUND *** A CALL TO THE JONI COMMUNITY *** To Mags, Sue, Ashara, Kate, Catherine, Les R., Colin, Chris, Maggie, Barbara, Susan, Victor, Wally, and especially everyone who gave me some time to think this through: I'm in. I made a donation to the link that Les I. provided. On the main page, http://www.jmdl.com there's a picture of MG and a link labeled "Make a Donation". If it's good enough for the big guy, I'm in. Hell, I'm always in. Eventually, I hope to be forgiven for the INCREDIBLY insensitive timing of my call for different accounting practices. I'm proud to help show my friend Mary Grace that the JMDL loves her this month. She knows it already but it's a perfect time to come across and prove it. Could we get back on-topic, please? All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 20:22:20 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: njc Cindi Lauper This is interesting because I love her version of Stay! I actually bought the CD because I saw her perform it on the Ellen show, with Sheila E on drums (how cool is she?) I think giving it a salsa beat makes it fresh and fun. I can't say I love the CD though. She has a great voice, but on at least 2 songs, it's like she's trying to win a Star Search contest for the longest notes ever held! And it seems like everyone is covering "At Last" lately. I saw an ad on TV for a new Michael Bolton CD and he's doing it too! (ack!) IMO, no one will ever come close to Etta James on that one.... Kerry _________________________________ "Dreams, Amelia, dreams and false alarms" Vince wrote: > and then - track 3 - Stay - a song I think is perhaps the finest rock > and roll song ever - a song that I thought was impossible to screw up - > and all I can say is that is the most arrangement I have ever heard of > any song ewer let alone the worst arrangement of Stay and I am going out > drinking tonight (and I don't drink) to try and get that sound out of my > head. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 21:43:41 -0500 From: vince Subject: double named songs Canadian choreographer Edouard Lock is touring with a ballet Amelia. (not a song but best I could do) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:39:32 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Sorry for being late in responding Kate - I've been away. I was speaking generally about what I hear from the opposition not from you personally. It's hard for me to follow and address the personal from the "global" opinions sometimes here because they often seem thrown in together. > I am not sure what circular rhetoric is (based on what I expressed) Repetitive venting of the same opinion without offering an alternative plan or platform or analysis. "The sky is falling, the sky is falling, I hate Bush, I hate Bush" rather than "here is how we should handle the deficiencies in U.S. immigration and border procedures" or "here is why we have had a problem with the infiltration of terrorist organizations into the U.S. and here is the best way to address it." There is nothing new under the sun. Bush did not invent war or the implementation of laws which come into effect when the U.S. is at war. During WWII the U.S. suspended many constitutional rights and was under a quasi martial law. It also put some citizens into concentration camps. Yet you never hear what FDR did raged about here. During that war there were probably more displays of the flag than there are now. My point is - this is not some "new lean toward fascism" that has begun with Bush. Clinton also bombed Baghdad and put our troops in the Balkans where many more civilians were killed than in Iraq. Yet that is conveniently forgotten. Bush relied on the reports from the Clinton administration state dept. and intelligence agencies in taking on the problem of Saddam and Al Queda. Yet that is also forgotten and Bush is the big liar. I just lose track of the logic after awhile. If only the opposition to Bush could look straight at ALL the facts and circumstances and come up with a better plan, we would all move forward. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:17:51 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Vince wrote: > only to you, Kakki, I don't think I'm the only one who sees it that way (at least in the larger world outside the JMDL). I've heard a number of Democrats (perhaps moderate) recently speak who are also concerned about the nasty rhetoric coming from their side. You can't win people to your side by ranting, petty hateful or wildly exaggerated statements. You are only venting to the choir. *Neither* side can persuade or win people to their opinions or even get people to listen to them with that approach. > It is who you are. As an intellectual exercise, I would love to see you post what would be an example of a thorough critique and rejection of anything Bush is > doing that you would NOT consider "extreme or paranoid or self-serving > or just plain hateful ranting. " I'm not sure what this means. > Kakki, you are a fantastic person, one of the great people of the JMDL. Thanks! >If you feel hurt or insulted by this, I deeply regret that for it was not intended > at all. Not at all! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:42:34 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Border patrol njc I flew out of Canada about a month after 9/11 and security from Air Canada pulled me out of line and had me empty my purse and carry-on bag, open up all my lipsticks and make-up, turn on my cell phone and take a pic with my camera. I was happy he was checking and thanked him but of course, I was in a state of extreme paranoia toward aircraft terrorism back then. The U.S. was always fairly lax with the comings and goings of people from Canada for many years. But then a number of the 9/11 hijackers and other terrorists were found to have come through Canada on their way to attack us. That is why they have tightened up on the border. The reason they treat everyone the same is that they can't appear to discriminate and they have to follow a much more stricter procedure now. If the shoe were on the other foot, maybe the Canadian border patrol would also have some draconian approaches. It's sad that it has come to this, to be sure. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 02:02:09 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: December 8 1975: Joni ended her "tour" with the Rolling Thunder Revue today at Madison Square Garden in New York City. She performed four new songs during the five-hour concert. "Well, it looks like I'm here to fight someone tonight", she said, "I never knew that Bob Dylan was this big." - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 02:02:09 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: December 8 On December 8 the following articles were published: 1975: "Folk Rock Stars Give Concert at Jersey Prison" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=869 1995: "Jackson's collapse upstages awards show" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=894 1996: "Both Sides, Later" - Los Angeles Times (Interview, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=144 1996: "Help for Joni in baby search " - Calgary Sun (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=90 1996: "Why Joni Mitchell has to find the little she gave away" - The Mail (Reunion Story) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=582 2001: "Joni: some sides now" - Toronto Globe and Mail (Review - Book) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=698 2002: "She's looked at both sides, and detests what she sees" - The Age (Australia) (Biography) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1031 2002: "Travelogue" - BlogCritics.org (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1035 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #608 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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