From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #605 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, December 5 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 605 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Blue ranked at 14 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Love Actually njc [tantra-apso ] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! [tantra-apso ] Re: (NJC) Socialism - and laziness vs. lack of motivation [tantra-apso ] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! [Jerry Notaro ] Re: fascism (NJC) [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Trouble With Angels NJC [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] welcome, Sally [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: Trouble With Angels NJC [Gary Zack ] socialism. . .environment (njc) ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Say it ain't so Bob! [Dave Cuneo ] Say it ain't so Bob! NJC [Dave Cuneo ] Recall: Say it ain't so Bob! [Dave Cuneo ] RE:Say it ain't so Dave! ["Victor Johnson" ] Hissing/Seeding [Michaelpaz@aol.com] satisfied now, mick? -- NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: satisfied now, mick? -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] UK Joni Concert - calling michael o'malley [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: bye bye Bush, NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: bye bye Bush, NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] One degree of separation [Les Irvin ] Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc - now very long & religious - be warned!!! :-) ["ron" ] (NJC) Follow me to JMDLPC ... ["Lori Fye" ] Re: bye bye Bush, NJC ["anon anon" ] Re: bye bye Bush, NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: bye bye Bush, NJC ["anon anon" ] Re: bye bye Bush, NJC ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: bye bye Bush, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] IRS/Peabo Bryson auction- everything must go...(njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Righting a WRONG, njc [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 03:09:55 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Blue ranked at 14 Another probably meaningless ranking, but helps cement Joni's legacy nonetheless, in some small way. USA Today ranks Blue at #14 (lists the top 40 albums of the rock era): 14. Joni Mitchell, Blue (1971). The singer exposes a fragile, battered heart in an exquisitely sad and lovely song cycle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:49:34 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Love Actually njc Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: >(although I do >think I recall a couple of mixed race moments - am I wrong about that ?) > no. one of the main bits involved a mixed race marriage. > > is that I did not really >notice it on my own, > that is the point. >I guess we are still a good way from getting to where we need to get - first >to the place where such apparent "snubs" occur only infrequently, > I don't know that snub is the right word. I doubt th makers even realised how they blocked nayhting but str8 'love' out. That is the point. I didn't think, and still don't, that it was a conscious deliberate thing. which makes it worse really. I have yet to see a romatic comedy, such s those starring Meg ryan for eg, that invovles a gay couple(female or male).it would be nice. Tho reality tells me it wouldn't work.I can't imagine a majority str8 audience would feel good at the end because man got his man or woman her woman. btw, i was talking about this film with a friend and she was confused by the two who were doing the filming of the sex scenes. She thinks they were making a porn film whwreeas I think they were body doubles for a film that wasn't a porn film. The more we talked about it, the more I wonder which of us was right. The guy mentioned he was a double for Pitt at some point. And if i they wwre making a porn film, they didn't choose a well made man! I still think these two were stand ins for 'real' actors. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:53:53 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Lori Fye wrote: > -- that I'm not as much a citizen of one >country as I am a citizen of the world. > > > well i don't think I came upon it that way, but it is how I have felt most of my life. Ironically(correct word?) despite being a foces child, i feel no patriotism or nationalism at all. I don't feel British. I don't feel or think we are better than anyone else. I don't even have a place I call home(aprt from the house I live in). How could one expect anythign when one has lived in so many different places and never for more than a couple of years. I find the idea of countries and borders rather negative and I strongly objcet that there are places on our planet that I cannot vist if I chose to. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:03:41 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Love Actually Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > For example, the rock star appeared on a >talk show, faced the male host and took off his pants. Then on Christmas >eve he was invited to Elton's house for a party. > oh those two things definately make him gay. I mean most gay men would do that, drop their trousers in front of any man they could and I get so many invites to Elton's I just can't keep up. > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:27:22 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: (NJC) Socialism - and laziness vs. lack of motivation Kate Bennett wrote: >I couldn't agree with you more lori...& sadly too often for some, that >rut can lead to death (by addiction or suicide)... > "All the theories about the defences against the unacknowledged fear are theories about the losers in these poer struggles, the 'mad' people. (If you keep losing the contests over whose definaitions of relaity should prevail, you lose confidence in your self, become increasingly prey to fear, and have to defend yourself with what the medical profession calls 'the symptoms of mental illness'.) Yet there cannot be a loser without a winner, and the iwnners is as much a part of the pattern as the loser. The winners have tried to ensure, so far very succesfully, that 'madness' is explained soley in terms of the losers. Thus psychiatrists, as winners, insist that 'madness' is a result of some fault within the person's body. Psychoanalysts, as winners, insist that the 'madness' is a result of some fault within then'mad' person's mind. Behavioura; psychologists, as winners, insist that 'madness' is a result of some fault in the behaviour of the 'mad' person. Losers don't just lose. They get blamed for losing. When I wrote about one kind of loser, those people who get depressed, I tried to redress the balance a little by showing how some winners, like the depressed person's spouse, help create and maintain the state depression whike at the same time trying to help the depressed person cease to be depressed. In Living With The Bomb, I wrote about winners, those people who are so devoted to creating and combatting enemies that they are likely, in the end, to make us all losers in every sense of the word." About power struggles: One may be: Mummy, I'm hungry. 'No you're not dear. You're tired. You're going to bed.' or: 'Now that the children are all going to school I think I might take acourse in computing.' 'Don't be silly. Women areno good with computers. Who's going to get my meals if you're out gallivanting about?' OR: Doctor, ever since I retired I've felt useless and life seems meaningless.' 'You'rere obviously depressed. It's an illness which unfortunately is common at your age.I'll give you a prescription.' - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:45:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc & now nationalism i also feel more love of this earth, than love of this nation....especially the natural world... for as long as i can remember i have never really felt any deep feeling of nationalism & pride but rather a fascination for learning about other cultures & the beauty of diversity ... (i dislike singing the star spangled banner as i consider it a war song & i've never enjoyed standing in front of the flag & pledging allegience like we had to do in school...it always made me uncomfortable)... i do love the country of my birth for its natural beauty but that is the strongest part of my love...i also love the idea of our constitution but have always been saddened & embarrassed by how the original inhabitants of this land were & still are treated...i have always felt more drawn to the indigenous culture than to the 'modern american' culture ...perhaps it is something that seeps up from the land, some cellular memory of sorts... perhaps that is why i naturally accept the benefits of socialism...because to me it is closer to a tribal culture..... colin > I find the idea of countries and borders rather negative and I strongly objcet that there are places on our planet that I cannot vist if I chose to. < ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:44:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! **So I did indeed remove that decal from my windshield this evening.** That's too bad, Lori...I like to display the flag to show to folks that I love & pray for my country and the troops, and it's OK to do that and still decry the deceit & lies and corruption within the administration. I hate to see the flag used as a borderline. Actually, that's something that Bush has done a GOOD job of...saying things like "Either you're with us or against us", and creating the idea that if you're against HIM, then you're against the flag, America, God, Mom, Apple Pie, Baseball, all that shi*t. And like Troy & RLJ say, most folks are gullible enough (and mentally lazy enough) to buy into that and fall in line. ** Without our Earth, the rest of the discussions are moot.** Well, as other have said...unless we totally blow it up and send it out of its orbit (which we probably have enough hardware to do), the Earth will continue and will think nothing of taking a couple of million years to refresh itself IF we destroy our own culture. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon, however, and I think history has shown us that we can reverse some of trends we're on. I still maintain my faith and optimism. Bob NP: Grover Washington, Jr., "I Wonder As I Wander" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:00:44 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Love Actually njc > I have yet to see a romatic comedy, such s those starring Meg ryan for > eg, that invovles a gay couple(female or male).it would be nice. Tho > reality tells me it wouldn't work.I can't imagine a majority str8 > audience would feel good at the end because man got his man or woman her > woman. Please rent Big Eden. It is just the movie you are looking for. As sweet, funny, and gentle as movies come revolving around the romance of two men. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:04:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Actually, that's something that Bush has done a > GOOD job of...saying things like "Either you're with us or against us", and > creating the idea that if you're against HIM, then you're against the flag, > America, God, Mom, Apple Pie, Baseball, all that shi*t. Gee. Who does that sound like? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:22:16 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Love Actually njc Jerry Notaro wrote: >> >> > >Please rent Big Eden. It is just the movie you are looking for. As sweet, >funny, and gentle as movies come revolving around the romance of two men. > thanks jerry. Never heard of it and certainly have not seen it at my local Blockbusters. perhaps I cna buy it DVD. > >Jerry > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:32:58 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: fascism (NJC) You really have > to go back to Nixon to find a more nefarious crew. But Nixon's deeds were > motivated by a more personal psychosis. We have a winner! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:19:51 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: Trouble With Angels NJC ! Does anyone else know the movie 'The Chalk Garden'? Teenage Hayley Mills with her father John Mills, Deborah Kerr and Dame Edith Evans. A favorite of mine. Mark - ------------------------------ Mark. I have watched that movie at least 100 times. I was always taken by Haley, I think our Joan had very much the same type of personality always looking for fun and trouble. The Chalk Garden should be a required educational movie for all young children. IT has great lessons in trust, acceptance inspite of what we have been accused of and in our fear of being misunderstood that love can conquer all. I have always talked of that movie much like I always mention to new friends that I'm into Joni. I think Haley also did some recordings back in the early 60s? Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 06:26:18 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: welcome, Sally Welcome, Sally. It's always nice to have new people join us! I'd second the recommendation for Night Ride Home. It's probably the most gentle introduction to Joni's later material. There's a ring of familiarity to it for those who know her earlier recordings. Glad you were at the UK Joni gathering. As someone else mentioned, don't let the whole socialism thread put you off. (I'm skipping it, myself - no offense to those participating...) This is a great and unique community. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:11:32 -0800 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Trouble With Angels NJC Hi Mingus and Mark, Yes, loved "Chalk Garden" too. Through searching the net, I found there is talk of releasing the old recordings that Hayley did. I think Disney owns the rights to most of them. Of course, "Pollyanna" was always a fun movie as well. I love DVDs, just like CDs in the sense that at least they hopefully won't "wear out" in my lifetime; and it's so much fun to be able to pull a favorite movie off the shelf and watch it in pristine condition! (especially with someone special who hasn't seen it before!) The color and sound in "Trouble With Angels" is just amazing! I've seen the soundtrack lp on eBay occasionally and it sells for quite a bit of money. Hayley did kind of have that "Joni" look, didn't she? :-) Best, Gary MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: >! Does anyone else know the movie 'The Chalk Garden'? Teenage >Hayley Mills with her father John Mills, Deborah Kerr and Dame Edith >Evans. A favorite of mine. > >Mark > >------------------------------ >Mark. > I have watched that movie at least 100 times. I was always taken by Haley, >I think our Joan had very much the same type of personality always looking for >fun and trouble. The Chalk Garden should be a required educational movie for >all young children. IT has great lessons in trust, acceptance inspite of what >we have been accused of and in our fear of being misunderstood that love can >conquer all. I have always talked of that movie much like I always mention to >new friends that I'm into Joni. I think Haley also did some recordings back >in the early 60s? > >Peace >Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:19:24 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: socialism. . .environment (njc) >Roberto is right. The REAL concern is the continued degradation of our >environment. We all must work together, beginning right NOW, to save our >planet from complete ruin. Without our Earth, the rest of the discussions >are moot. >Lori I too am very concerned about the the ecosystem; the water, the air, the fishes in the deep blue sea. . . It is a delicate balance. . . Why are there so many people in our age groups getting cancer? it is so prevalent and accepted. . . cancer comes from somewhere. . . it comes from our water, our food, the air we beathe. . . we descecrate the sacred . . and we pay for it. . we pay with deep sorrow. . . Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Cell phone switch rules are taking effect  find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumeradvocate.armx ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:42:32 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: Love Actually (NJC) In a message dated 12/5/03 12:42:49 AM, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: << For example, the rock star appeared on a talk show, faced the male host and took off his pants. >> and this makes him gay??? oh my, I had to chime in here on the supposed gay theme of Love Actually... do straight men really think everyone gay makes a beeline for "anyone" male? As if! That one is really from the dark ages....I just wrote a magazine story about this absurd notion--fact is, most gays I know are pickier about men that their designer shoes--and wanted to set the record (pardon the pun) straight...whew, had to get that one off my chest! have a great weekend everyone... Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:00:51 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: Love Actually njc Yes, Yes!! I hemmed and hawed about renting this film, but it was a FABULOUS surprise. I recommend this film to everyone. Steve - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "tantra-apso" ; Cc: ; "Joni List" Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 7:00 AM Subject: Re: Love Actually njc > > I have yet to see a romatic comedy, such s those starring Meg ryan for > > eg, that invovles a gay couple(female or male).it would be nice. Tho > > reality tells me it wouldn't work.I can't imagine a majority str8 > > audience would feel good at the end because man got his man or woman her > > woman. > > Please rent Big Eden. It is just the movie you are looking for. As sweet, > funny, and gentle as movies come revolving around the romance of two men. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:09:32 -0500 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Say it ain't so Bob! Bob Muller said: " ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:11:42 -0500 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Say it ain't so Bob! NJC Ciao Joniphiles, Bob Muller said: "NP: Steely Dan, "Lunch With Gina" (one of the year's disappointments for me)" Dave: I thought "Everything Must Go" is a great album, and "Lunch With Gina" is my favorite song on there! :~) Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:12:25 -0500 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Recall: Say it ain't so Bob! Dave Cuneo would like to recall the message, "Say it ain't so Bob!". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:28:12 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE:Say it ain't so Dave! > Dave Cuneo would like to recall the message, "Say it ain't so Bob!". Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:34:32 EST From: Michaelpaz@aol.com Subject: Hissing/Seeding HI All Does anyone have artwork for the "Seeding of Summer Lawns" (Hissing of Summer Lawns Demos)? If so please email them to me to share with a friend. Thanks Paz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:56:02 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: satisfied now, mick? -- NJC Mick Jagger is going to be knighted by QEII on Dec. 12. Surely this is one of the signs of the apocalypse. Said Murph..... He has apparently cancelled this beano 20 times due to pressures of touring!!! Keith Richards is incandescent with rage and accusations of hypocrisy slating Mcik as one of the biggest arse crawlers and snobs of the age.... I just have this wonderful thought of Mick saying "I am here at your satanic Majesties request.....fanks a lot queenie for the gong....(that is what the knighthoods etc, are called)" and planting a huge kiss on her!!!" Marianne Faithful is also joining in the Mick-bashing but hey, let the guy have his day since so many people thing the Rolling Stones sold out years ago..... ITs pretty amazing that he is able to function.... AS to is being a sign of the Apocalypse , could be...... but then you have Bush, we have Blair and all we need now is two other nutcases to join them and the four horsemen are assembled.... MIck might be able to ride a horse but I dont think he could manage the time as he is so busy collecting medals at the palace..... Have been in big time lurk mode... but still here..... Lucy (queen Lulu who did not think that Mick needed a gong but is going to come up with her own list of honours for the new year) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:10:19 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: satisfied now, mick? -- NJC Lovely Queen Lulu addresses her minions: > I just have this wonderful thought of Mick saying "I am here at your satanic Majesties request.....fanks a lot queenie for the gong....(that is what the knighthoods etc, are > called)" and planting a huge kiss on her!!!" Then he could sing his vintage, "Go, go . . . go, little queenie, go!" I wonder if the timing of this has anything to do with the fact that Princess Margaret is no longer around to be embarrassed by Mick receiving this honor. (If she would indeed be embarrassed.) Seems like just yesterday they were all gallivanting around her semi-private tropical isle. (Was it Mustique? I don't know. I was never invited.) And speaking of notorious Margarets in the Stones' entourage, what ever happened to Margaret Trudeau? - --Troy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:17:06 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: UK Joni Concert - calling michael o'malley I've got a copy to send to Michael O'Malley - Michael can I have your address? I also have an extra one that's up for grabs if anyone wants it and would be happy to burn more, if need be. Thanks Martin! I can't wait to get home and give it a listen. Jenny Michael Paz wrote: Thanks to Martin in the UK I will be sending copies out to Muller, Cindy V, and Mags to distribute further. Please send me your addresses (except you Muller I know yours by heart) and I will send them out tomorrow. I am also offering this show up as a weed to the first 3 people that send me their address and promise to re-weed 3 more copies out to the list so that we can get this out to everyone who wants it. Thanks again Martin and if you would please send me the artwork as an attachment for further distribution. Best Paz Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:22:39 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC This is from a breaking story on the Drudge Report: A new shock song from rapper Eminem wishes the president dead, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned... On the track WE AS AMERICANS, obtained by DRUDGE, the nation's top selling rapper shockingly rants: 'F**k money. I don't rap for dead presidents. I'd rather see the president dead. It's never been said, but I set precedents and the standards and they can't stand it... We as Americans. Us as a citizen. We've got to protect ourselves'... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:26:21 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Joni's descriptive phrases Marian, I really liked your post about Joni's descriptive phrases. Especially the one from NRH: "the silver power lines, gleam on this fourth of July." I love the way Joni adds some synth music here to actually make the power lines sound like they are making music. Even the fireworks have their own music. You can hear a sort of zipping noise of a bottle-rocket-sounding firework in one instance, and in another you can hear the burst of one of those beautiful gigantic multi-colored fireworks! I think there may even be more firework sounds in the song. Homework for all JMD'lers: How many fireworks can you hear in NRH? Without watching the video, I think I hear five distinctive fiireworks. I recently lent my CD to my college instructor, who is working on his PhD and doing a dissertation on WB Yeats. I just had to give him my Joni plug on "Slouching towards Bethlehem," and now he wants to listen to it. Maybe he'll work Joni into his paper. :) Mia - who is suffering some serious NRH withdrawl without her CD in her possession. Don't it always seem to go.......... _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:32:38 -0500 (EST) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC Oh Lord. I can hear Bill O'Reilly already. Jerry Quoting Murphycopy@aol.com: > This is from a breaking story on the Drudge Report: > > A new shock song from rapper Eminem wishes the president dead, the > DRUDGE REPORT has learned... > > On the track WE AS AMERICANS, obtained by DRUDGE, the nation's top > selling rapper shockingly rants: 'F**k money. I don't rap for dead > presidents. I'd rather see the president dead. It's never been said, but > I set precedents and the standards and they can't stand it... We as > Americans. Us as a citizen. We've got to protect ourselves'... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:35:42 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! **So I did indeed remove that decal from my windshield this evening.** > That's too bad, Lori...I like to display the flag to show to folks > that I love & pray for my country and the troops, and it's OK to do > that and still decry the deceit & lies and corruption within the > administration. I hate to see the flag used as a borderline. I agree, Bob. On the other hand, Americans don't need to be so obnoxious about displaying our flag constantly and everywhere. Why not do as most other countries do, and display it on special occasions only? I can look out the window of my office building and immediately see four U.S. flags: one on the pole in front of the Chevy Chase Bank headquarters, another on the pole atop the 15-story Clark Companies building, a third draped from the Bethesda Metro Center building, and a fourth on the pole in front of the Hyatt. These are all at one intersection (three are on the same block within 100 yards of each other), and none of these buildings are federal buildings or courthouses or post offices. (In fact, the U.S. post office that's next to the Hyatt doesn't display a flag -- perhaps due to overkill?) Granted, I work four miles from DC, but this seems to be typical of any American city or town. Three of the flags have always been displayed; the Bethesda Metro Center flag was added after 9/11. I understand feeling nationalistic, especially after 9/11 first happened. That day, I had the immediate urge to go home and erect a flag pole in my front yard. But Americans have been shoving our flag in everyone's face for decades before, quite often beyond our own borders. It just seems ridiculous and arrogant to me. > Actually, that's something that Bush has done a GOOD job of...saying > things like "Either you're with us or against us", and creating the > idea that if you're against HIM, then you're against the flag Yep, and partly because of that and because the first defining characteristic of fascism is: "1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." I'll just return to displaying my flag only on appropriate holidays. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:49:19 -0500 (EST) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: limbaugh All this talk about Limbaugh in the media and his replies reminds me of definitions: Conservative: A liberal who has been robbed. Liberal: A conservative who has been indicted. Jerry ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:22:49 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC Kate wrote:> > > Okay, I voted for clinton but I never thought he was someone who I had > to stand behind 100% ... I was pissed at him for lying about inhaling & > pissed at him for lying about sex... is there anyone out there who > supports bush that is pissed at him for his lies? I sincerely would like > to know if anyone who is a supporter of this administration has any > feelings like I did towards the guy I voted for...If so please speak... Hi Kate, I didn't vote for Clinton for president because I'm from Arkansas. I voted for him for governor here, and I wasn't please. We are in need of improving our educational system (Arkansas historically has been 49th in education), and Clinton never kept his promises along those lines. So, despite him being a native son, I didn't vote for him for president. Anyway, you asked if there is somebody who supported Bush and is angry with him for his lies. That would be me!!! I'm currently supporting Wesley Clark. I have friends in my profession who are from other countries and think the US is a joke because of Clinton, and Bush has smeared our international face even more. Clark is level headed and very intelligent, and I'm hoping he's the one. Love and peace, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:26:34 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: RE: limbaugh >From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu >Reply-To: notaro@stpt.usf.edu >To: jon i >Subject: limbaugh >Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:49:19 -0500 (EST) > >All this talk about Limbaugh in the media and his replies reminds me of >definitions: > >Conservative: A liberal who has been robbed. > >Liberal: A conservative who has been indicted. > >Jerry ;-) I wish EVERYONE was a liberal... _________________________________________________________________ Dont worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:35:22 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC Laura writes: > I have friends in my profession who are from other > countries and think > the US is a joke because of Clinton Most of the people I know from other countries thought the US was a joke because of our REACTION to Clinton's sex life -- which should have been his private business. Most of them admire the man and had a much higher opinion of the US when he was president. - --Troy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:41:05 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC "I don't rap for dead presidents" means "I dont rap for money." Eminem has been rapping against Bush since Bush took office. Perhaps Drudge hasn't listened much, but is was Em who wrote back in 2001 that he was "no friend of Bush"(from "Square Dance") and the immortal lines, "Fuck You, Lynne Cheney, Fuck you, Tipper Gore" (from "White America"). In the opening video for Em's 2002 Anger Management Tour he ran filmclips of Lieberman, Lynne Cheney, and others doing their "ain't Eminem awful" schtick. Oh well, always money to be made by attacking Eminem - nominated for 5 grammys this most recent time around and how good it was to me to see all the rap and hip hop tunes get recognition at long last. Vince This is from a breaking story on the Drudge Report: A new shock song from rapper Eminem wishes the president dead, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned... On the track WE AS AMERICANS, obtained by DRUDGE, the nation's top selling rapper shockingly rants: 'F**k money. I don't rap for dead presidents. I'd rather see the president dead. It's never been said, but I set precedents and the standards and they can't stand it... We as Americans. Us as a citizen. We've got to protect ourselves'... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:40:50 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: hi from New joni fan Hi Sally Glad you plucked up the courage to post at last! I have to say that sooner or later you're going to have to take the plunge and listen to 'Hejira'. There is so much powerful songwriting in 'Hissing Of Summer Lawns' and 'Court And Spark' etc. But in the end 'Hejira' is the pinnacle in my opinion. With your background in jazz, you may well be able to get on with 'Mingus' more than a lot of people, and certainly take a long, slow stroll through 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'. Then you have to listen to 'Shadows And Light' - the live album that encorporates a lot of material from most of the albums mentioned above. I think that the performances/arrangements on SAL are actually better than on the studio albums in most, if not all cases. That's a whole load to be going on with, and you'll still have tons of delights to look forward to after that!! Don't forget to get saving for the Jonifest :) Martin. ".....singing songs into bottles under sandalwood skies......." 'Anywhere But Understood' from the forthcoming album 'Love And Other Vices'. :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:00:47 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC "Troy" wrote: > Most of the people I know from other countries thought the US was a > joke because of our REACTION to Clinton's sex life -- which should > have been his private business. I'm sure you've noticed that it's almost always the conservative right wing that's consumed by other peoples' sex lives ... Clinton's, gays' and lesbians' ... All this concern and worry and wonder about what other people are doing in bed! Makes a person wonder who is REALLY the more perverted. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:03:37 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC Vince writes: > back in 2001 that he was "no friend of Bush"(from > "Square Dance") and the immortal lines, "Fuck You, Lynne > Cheney, Fuck you, Tipper Gore" Ah, they just don't write songs like that anymore. - --Troy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:08:42 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: One degree of separation As of today, here are the top selling "Folk" discs at CDNow/Amazon.com: 1. Blue - Joni Mitchell 2. Car Wheels on a Gravel Road - Lucinda Williams 3. The Essential Leonard Cohen 4. Alice's Restaurant - Arlo Guthrie 5. The Very Best of Judy Collins Any one care to play "one degree of separation" from Joni with this list? Les NP: John Zorn "Cobra" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 21:12:13 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc - now very long & religious - be warned!!! :-) hi vince >>vince wrote >>> ron, i wrote you a long, witty, eloquent, well researched, truly >>> thoughtful piece on your last post and the computer crashed as I spell thats a pity - i was really looking forward to your opinion. i even woke up around 1 am & wandered thru to my pc to see if tehre was anything. seems like something going around tho - my machine also crashed just as i reached the end of my mail & i had to start all over!!!!! (no it wasnt bill's fault this time - my power switch consists of two wire protruding from the case & every now & then they short out by accident!!) anyhow - if you ever feel moved to redo it - or even just summarise it - i really would love to hear your thoughts sometime. regards ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:16:24 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: eminem raps about dead president -- NJC Can't beat the old standards! Vince writes: > back in 2001 that he was "no friend of Bush"(from > "Square Dance") and the immortal lines, "Fuck You, Lynne > Cheney, Fuck you, Tipper Gore" Ah, they just don't write songs like that anymore. - --Troy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:45:17 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: One degree of separation Les writes: > Any one care to play "one degree of separation" from Joni with this list? > Um, they all have the top 5 selling "folk" dics at CDNow? :~) Oh, let Muller do that degrees of separtion stuff. He's so good at it. Happy Weekend! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:46:02 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Jazz Cruise (with some Joni connections) How bout this - for the man or woman who has everything? Creole Festival Jazz Cruise www.deniselabrie.com Feb. 22-29, 2004 Joe Sample, Arturo Sandoval, Dr. John, David Sanborn, Rick Braun, Shemekia Copeland, the Blind Boys of Alabama, etc.. 7 Nights aboard First European's Vision from Guadeloupe to Tortola Santo Domingo, Aruba, Isla Margarita, Grenada, Guadeloupe Some Joni connections - Joe Sample (Crusaders) was a member of the LA Express, played on Court & Spark and Hissing of Summer Lawns "Like I remember Joe Sample (pianist) was working on 'Trouble Child' and I said 'you're just playing notes, can you play more like a wave, arcing back in on itself to illustrate the line 'breaking like the waves at Malibu'." David Sanborn - played with Joni, Wayne Shorter and Bobby McFerrin on the Herbie Hancock-hosted Showtime music series Showtime Coast To Coast in 1987, and recorded 'Man from Mars' on his album 'Time Again' Dr John played on Coyote in The Last Waltz (I read somewhere - is this true?) http://theband.hiof.no/articles/lwahbft.html At rehearsals the night before, while first the Band, then Eric Clapton, Van Morrison, Joni Mitchell and Dr. John (with Bobby Charles) went through their blocked out paces, the floor below became a party of sorts (without refreshments). Guests included Albert Grossman and his own party; local lights like poet/playwright Michael McClure and rock attorney Brian Rohan; wandering musicians, including David Bromberg; and the press, filtering in from Los Angeles, Chicago, New York and Canada. After running through "Shadows and Light" and "Coyote," Joni Mitchell wandered back on to the floor and looked just like your average Beverly Hills shopper, with a shoulder bag slung over a blue coat. Margo St. James, head of COYOTE, the organization that advocates decriminalized prostitution, pinned a COYOTE button on her. Mitchell accepted with a smile. "I'd been meaning to call you," she told St. James. "They asked me to play a hooker in a movie and I wanted to get your advice". St. James smiled back. "That's why everybody calls me." PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:32:07 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Politics explained DEMOCRAT You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. Barbara Streisand sings for you. REPUBLICAN You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So? SOCIALIST You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor. You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his cow. COMMUNIST You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk. You wait in line for hours to get it. It is expensive and sour. CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows. DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow, which was a gift from your government. BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE You have two cows The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and then pours the milk down the drain. AMERICAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd one. Or, you force the two cows to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when one cow drops dead. You spin an announcement to the analysts stating you have down sized and are reducing expenses. Your stock goes up. FRENCH CORPORATION You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows. You go to lunch and drink wine. Life is good. JAPANESE CORPORATION You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. They learn to travel on unbelievably crowded trains. Most are at the top of their class at cow school. GERMAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You engineer them so they are all blond, drink lots of beer, give excellent quality milk, and run a hundred miles an hour. Unfortunately they also demand 13 weeks of vacation per year. ITALIAN CORPORATION You have two cows but you don't know where they are. While ambling around, you see a beautiful woman. You break for lunch. Life is good. RUSSIAN CORPORATION You have two cows. You have some vodka. You count them and learn you have five cows. You have some more vodka. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. The Mafia shows up and takes over however many cows you really have. TALIBAN CORPORATION You have all the cows in Afghanistan, which are two. You don't milk them because you cannot touch any creature's private parts Then you kill them and claim a US bomb blew them up while they were in the hospital. IRAQI CORPORATION You have two cows. They go into hiding. They send radio tapes of their mooing. POLISH CORPORATION You have two bulls. Employees are regularly maimed and killed attempting to milk them. FLORIDA CORPORATION You have a black cow and a brown cow. Everyone votes for the best looking one. Some of the people who like the brown one best, vote for the black one. Some people vote for both. Some people vote for neither. Some people can't figure out how to vote at all. Finally, a bunch of guys from out-of-state tell you which is the best looking cow. CALIFORNIAN You have a cow and a bull. The bull is depressed. It has spent its life living a lie. It goes away for two weeks. It comes back after a taxpayer-paid sex-change operation. You now have two cows. One makes milk; the other doesn't. You try to sell the transgender cow. Its lawyer sues you for discrimination. You lose in court. You sell the milk-generating cow to pay the damages. You now have one rich, transgender, non-milk-producing cow. You change your business to beef. PETA pickets your farm. Jesse Jackson makes a speech in your driveway. Cruz Bustamante calls for higher farm taxes to help "working cows". Hillary Clinton calls for the nationalization of 1/7 of your farm "for the children". Gray Davis signs a law giving your farm to Mexico. The L.A. Times quotes five anonymous cows claiming you groped their teats. You declare bankruptcy and shut down all operations. The cow starves to death. The L.A. Times' analysis shows your business failure is Bush's fault. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:42:19 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Follow me to JMDLPC ... A little birdy has whispered in my ear that these recent political discussions are getting tiresome for some folks. About 14 months ago when we were having a lot of political discussion on the JMDL, Les started a Yahoo group for those of us interested in continuing such dialogue. You can join at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JMDLPC/ ("JMDL Political Content"). See you there! Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:03:10 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC >From: Murphycopy@aol.com >Reply-To: Murphycopy@aol.com >To: LCStanley7@aol.com, joni@smoe.org >CC: kate@katebennett.com >Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC >Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:35:22 -0500 > >Laura writes: > > > I have friends in my profession who are from other > > countries and think > > the US is a joke because of Clinton > >Most of the people I know from other countries thought the US was a joke >because of our REACTION to Clinton's sex life -- which should have been his >private business. Most of them admire the man and had a much higher opinion >of the US when he was president. > >--Troy I agree completly.There is a strong puritan tradition here in the U.S.It's totally ridiculous...yes,what clinton did was wrong.but it was blown way,way out of proprtion.What this administration does every single day(in Iraq and their policies right here in the U.S.) is 1000 times worse then what clinton did. _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:27:18 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC > yes,what clinton did was wrong.but it was blown way,way out of > prop[o]rtion. Pun intended, or not? LOL! : D Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:32:49 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC >From: "Lori Fye" >To: "anon anon" , Joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC >Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 14:27:18 -0800 > > > yes,what clinton did was wrong.but it was blown way,way out of > > prop[o]rtion. > >Pun intended, or not? > >LOL! > >: D > > >Lori nope,that was unintentional... _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 18:06:52 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC ",what clinton did was wrong.but it was blown way,way out of proportion." Interesting chocie of words - LOL! I guess really only Monica and the president know whetehr it was really blown out of proportion! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:10:03 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: bye bye Bush, NJC I wrote: > >> I have friends in my profession who are from other countries and think >> >> the US is a joke because of Clinton, Colin wrote: > I don't htink you will find this an overall view. clinton is respected, and > most Euro countries anyway, don't give a toss about his seucla behaviour. Thanks Colin. This is good to hear! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:43:47 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: IRS/Peabo Bryson auction- everything must go...(njc) I stopped by the Peabo Bryson auction today. Since he owes the IRS something over a million dollars, they are auctioning off literally everything he owns, including his home and grammy awards. I'd never been to an auction before and was just curious to see what it was like. Today they were auctioning off all of his studio equipment/instruments...by the time I got there, alot of things had already been sold. Some people bought some really silly stuff...a small cheap brand television, college dorm fridge, Sharp microwave oven....the silliest was a universal remote(with its own case) that went for $50 dollars. When I left, a nice Takamine nylon string guitar with cutaway and p/u was up to $475. I didn't stick around to see what the custom Gibson electric hollow body would go for. Tomorrow everything from the house goes, including a nice looking baby grand which will be much more than this struggling musician has. I might go by as there are a couple of cool buddhist statues I could go for if the bidding doesn't go very high. Its a cold rainy night. I was supposed to drive to Asheville tonight for an instore show but decided not to because of inclement weather and a good thing as it ended up being cancelled anyway. Victor NP: Nick Drake "Fly" Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 23:52:38 +0000 From: tantra-apso Subject: Mary Grace I have not tagged this message. I have no idea if any joni onlies know her. I have just got off the phone with her. She is in pain, in shock, but doing remarkably well. MG's strength is one of her many qualites that i admire. Her family are all with her, her sister from vermont and her other sister will be there on Monday. Her own children, apart from the oldest one, do not know what is wrong. I have no idea what else to say. Just keep sending you good thoughts to her. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 19:02:37 -0500 From: Subject: Righting a WRONG, njc I read today that a memorial to victims of lynchings was unveiled in Duluth. I'm quoting part of it in the hope that we can renew our commitments to each other and get back to some semblance of a garden. Lama - --- Lynching Memorial Unveiled in Duluth - --- Nations deal with nightmares the same way people do  by trying to forget them. Among the nightmares that had faded from public memory in the United States until recently, none are more ghastly than the campaign of racial terror that gripped this country from the 1880's to the 1930's, when thousands of black Americans were hanged, mutilated, burned alive or dragged to death while huge crowds looked on The dedication drew thousands of people from all over the area. The emotional high point came with a speech by Warren Read, a fourth-grade teacher from Kingston, Wash., who had learned while researching his family that his great-grandfather had helped lead the mob that stormed the local jail and took the three men, who were circus workers, from their cells. His voice choking with emotion, he apologized to the victims and their families. The memorial in Duluth is part of a national journey that began in the 1990's, when scholars and museums began to pull back the covers on a shameful and horrific period. After nearly a half-century of turning away, the country now seems more ready to look its nightmare squarely in the eye. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #605 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)