From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #603 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, December 4 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 603 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: satisfied now, mick? -- NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] re: Socialism (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] (NJC) Socialism - and laziness vs. lack of motivation ["Lori Fye" ] Re: NJC - Grammys ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["Lori Fye" ] Re: hi from New joni fan ["Jim Leonard" ] Re: Covers #47 [fauchja@comcast.net] Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc ["kakki" ] RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["Kate Bennett" ] socialism (njc) ["Marianne Rizzo" ] RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["Lori Fye" ] socialism. . .facism (njc) ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Re: hi from New joni fan ["Lori Fye" ] Re: (NJC) Speaking of Peace ... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["kakki" ] Re: (NJC) Speaking of Peace ... ["Lori Fye" ] Re: socialism. . .facism (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: (NJC) Speaking of Peace ... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: hi from New joni fan [Chris Marshall ] RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Thank you Lori (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: socialism. . .facism (njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! [vince ] Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc - now very long & religious - be warned!!! :-) [vince ] Re: socialism. . .facism (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: The Trouble With Angels NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Fw: steve earle (NJC) ["gene mock" ] Re: Love Actually [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! ["Lori Fye" ] facism (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:09:13 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: satisfied now, mick? -- NJC Ha! ha! ha! That is a priceless statement!!!! Thanks Bob! Sherelle Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 16:09:41 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: satisfied now, mick? -- NJC Mick Jagger is going to be knighted by QEII on Dec. 12. Surely this is one of the signs of the apocalypse. _________________________________________________________________ Browse styles for all ages, from the latest looks to cozy weekend wear at MSN Shopping. And check out the beauty products! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:16:10 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: njc: Vince, Joni, Woodstock get the nod Your title to this thread promised much, much more than it delivered. I was looking to forward to something special I'd be doing with Joni at Woodstock and it would appear you mean some other Vince. Not too happy right now to have my hopes dashed... (insert mean, angry face here) Vince LOL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:30:03 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: NJC - Grammys Nomination notes: Best New Artist: Fountains Of Wayne (???? they issued their 3rd record this year) Rod Stewart was nominated for that dreadful standards record - OMG! Tom Waits scams a nomination - yippee - for an obscure track of a Ramones tribute CD. And even though Joni didn't get a packaging nom, Ani scammed one for Evolve - - cool! And a bunch of noms for The White Stripes who deserve them. All in all, a pretty predictable list. Bob NP: Counting Crows, "Have You Seen Me Lately?" 4/27/02 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:34:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc Kakki >Well gee aren't most people in "evil capitalist" countries already paying out the majority of their earnings in taxes (redistributing) that are supposed to help take care of the poor and people in need?< Did I miss a post where the term "evil capitalist" was previously used? Since its in quotes maybe someone said it & I missed it? Is someone here saying that capitalism is by nature 'evil'? Kate, confused now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:40:28 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: re: Socialism (njc) Roberto >As a Green Party voter, I have no optimism whatsoever for any oxygen-breathing species. It is almost certainly too late to turn things around< Thanks for your passionate post roberto... As an environmentalist I have both horror & hope & this is why I have hope- have you ever noticed how a blade of grass can push its way through concrete? Kate, still the optimist... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 13:59:20 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Socialism - and laziness vs. lack of motivation Marianne wrote: > if they are mentally ill that is one thing. . . but if they are plain > lazy. > . . that is another. > > I'm to the left of most of you (I think) and > have zero tolerance for the ones who do not put forth effort. I used to describe myself as lazy, and my friends would always object. I eventually learned (through therapy) that I am not lazy, but that -- due to clinical depression -- I am not motivated. There is a difference, since (at least for me) once I am motivated I tend to "kick ass" in the work department. Zoloft fixed the depression but I still wasn't motivated. So my shrink added 75mg of Wellbutrin -- which is an "activator" -- to my 50mg of Zoloft, and I take both of these daily. This "cocktail" has enabled me to overcome most (although not all) of my lack of motivation (which is probably related to my habit of procrastinating, and those of you who know me well know all about that, unfortunately). This is not to endorse medication, but to suggest that those "lazy" people might be depressed and therefore unmotivated. Unfortunately, if those same people are uninsured or underinsured, they have little chance of getting therapy, let alone medications, that might help them out of their ruts. One solution for that paradox might be ... socialized medicine. Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:02:58 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc Ron wrote: > even slavery is probably better than starving if you are well treated > (now hows that for stirring up the pot!!!!!!) Oh my, Ron who lives in South Africa! You're a brave man!! : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:02:23 -0500 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Re: NJC - Grammys Its great to see underrated jazz singer Kurt Elling get nominated in the jazz vocal category along with Luciana Souza's swinging "North and South". Happy to see Dianne Reeves' mellow album "A Little Moonlight" get noticed and even happier to see Shirley Horn's melancholic "May THe Music Never End". But I am confused about Aaron Neville's album being in the nominees list. I listened to it and found his voice an acquired taste I just don't have the patience to acquire. Surely, there are other deserving ones, like Abbey Lincoln's "It's Me" or Cassandra Wilson's "Glamoured" or Janis Siegel's "Friday Night Special" or Lizz Wright's "Salt". I agree with Bob about Rod Stewart's inclusion in the Traditional Pop Vocal Performance, but then I am not that excited in that category just by looking at the nominees, except Rosemary Clooney's last Concert in Hawaii which was quite heartbreaking to hear. I have k.d. lang and Tony Bennett's album as well and I liked it too, but for it nominated, naahh. Interesting to see that all nominees in the classical soloist category are piano players. Am for Andras Schiff all the way. And just as great to see Anne Sofie Von Otter's name in the classical vocal category. Thanks, Patrick. ;-) And wasn't Heather Headley the woman in "Aida"? Joe in (very cold) Chapel Hill (who hopes to see the last of sleet last night) Quoting Bob.Muller@Fluor.com: > Nomination notes: > > Best New Artist: Fountains Of Wayne (???? they issued their 3rd > record this > year) > > Rod Stewart was nominated for that dreadful standards record - OMG! > > Tom Waits scams a nomination - yippee - for an obscure track of a > Ramones > tribute CD. > > And even though Joni didn't get a packaging nom, Ani scammed one for > Evolve > - cool! > > And a bunch of noms for The White Stripes who deserve them. > > All in all, a pretty predictable list. > > Bob > > NP: Counting Crows, "Have You Seen Me Lately?" 4/27/02 > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------- > Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:16:10 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Kate contributed: > Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler > (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and > several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining > characteristics common to each: > > 1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - > Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, > slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen > everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. Kate, the above and everything that follows is some very scary stuff. Because it's absolutely happening in the U.S., right now. Although I am a veteran who proudly served my country (most of the time, anyway), and although I'm happy and feel fortunate (most of the time) to be an American, I'm removing that U.S. flag decal (which my brother gave me just after 9/11) from my windshield as soon as I reach the parking lot. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:21:14 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Futility & now HOPE! (njc) I don't believe anyone can predict the future though I do believe we can influence it with our actions & our thoughts...with that in mind here is a thought I resonate with that was sent to me by a friend recently: "We have entered the time of the Great Balancing. Many gifts will be given. Cognitive powers will increase greatly. Substances will be given, allowing our DNA to heal and evolve. We will know the reality of Star Nations. Energy will be drawn from an elevated consciousness. Movies will be made reflecting divine truths. A One World spirituality will be recognized. We will be given the chance to step through the gate." >after that, that is, in about 40 years, we will cease to exist as a species and the planet will go on spinning, sustaining new habitats and surviving beings. unless the forces of harmonic concordance prevail, most of us will perish, and so will our thoughts and futility. Wally< Bob! LOL!!!!!!!!!! >And I'm willing to bet that about half of those beings will record "Both Sides Now"! Bob, enjoying this cheery thread< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:27:45 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: hi from New joni fan Hi Sally, and welcome. I'm sure we all envy you your "virginity," as that pertains to not having yet heard many of Joni's works. I know I do. As far as "later stuff" is concerned -- if the most recent album you've heard is Blue -- I'd suggest you do a lot of listening before you get to Hejira. I think Hejira will be most fully appreciated if you tackle some (or all) of the preceding post-Blue albums first. This will allow you to track Joni's progression, particularly her use of more complex pop- and jazz-influenced arrangements (as opposed to more spare, acoustic, folk-influenced arrangements). These include, chronologically: For The Roses Court And Spark Miles Of Aisles (a double live album, and a great early-years summation) The Hissing Of Summer Lawns Then, it's on to Hejira. Whoa! Plan to take a couple of months off! :-) After Hejira, I'd skip Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus (although I love them, and would suggest you come back to them) and head straight for Shadows And Light. Like Miles Of Aisles, it's a double live album and serves as a wonderful middle-years summation. Shadows And Light is my favorite of Joni's albums, for a lot of reasons. One of those reasons is that the middle years are my favorites of Joni's career, so the material presented on Shadows And Light is that which is most precious to me. Another reason is that Joni did her best singing, in my opinion, in 1979, the year of this tour. It's just light years beyond anything she'd done before. The Mingus material, particularly, is advanced by these performances (which is why I suggest you hear this first, and then go back to Mingus). Finally, what a phenomenal band Joni assembled for this tour -- soon-to-be-jazz-legends guitarist Pat Metheny and keyboardist Lyle Mays of the Pat Metheny Group, bassist Jaco Pastorius of Weather Report (who'd already played a major role on Hejira, Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, and Mingus), saxophonist Michael Brecker, then a member of the Brecker Brothers (who almost steals the show, he's that on fire), and drummer/percussionist Don Alias (a well known player in the jazz world). Shadows and Light is my "desert island" Joni. Shadows And Light is available as a DVD, too. Maybe you can help to bring some more "Joni Content" to the JMDL by allowing us to share in your voyage of discovery. I'm mainly a lurker -- catching up with digests after as many as four days without having had a chance to read one -- but I'll be on the lookout for your posts when I do check in. Best, "Boston" Jim (I was at college in Boston when Hejira was released. To have one of my idols -- and at that time, Joni was *way* up there -- mention "Boston Jim" in a lyric to one of her new songs was a tremendous thrill. I was, and had been, so in tune with her, and was with the new record, that I was sure she was referring to me.) :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:29:52 +0000 From: fauchja@comcast.net Subject: Re: Covers #47 Raised on Robbery on Court and Spark - -- GUITAR GUY EXTRAORDINAIRE > Don't forget to tender a guess for a free copy of Covers #47...you never > can tell, I might just throw in a surprise! > > Just pick a song on a Joni record and the record it's on, like: > > I Had A King - Song To a Seagull > > Nothing to it...even someone with a South Carolina public education can > figure it out! > > I had originally said that I would entertain guesses through Friday night, > but I forgot that I'm heading to Myrtle Beach Friday and gone until Sunday, > so I'll entertain picks through Midnight Sunday and announce a winner > Monday. > > Bob > > NP: Chris Smither, live at The Handlebar 9-Aug-03 > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:28:33 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc Ron wrote: > - responsible capitalism with a sense of social responsibility toward those > less fortunate than oneself - Well said. That's the model I've grown up with and what comes natural to me. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:31:58 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! I don't know if the mainstream media is reporting this but I have heard firsthand that there is much disgruntlement (is that a word? Lol) among the armed forces towards our administration who speaks with forked tongue ... >Although I am a veteran who proudly served my country (most of the time, anyway), and although I'm happy and feel fortunate (most of the time) to be an American, I'm removing that U.S. flag decal (which my brother gave me just after 9/11) from my windshield as soon as I reach the parking lot. Lori< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:35:10 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: njc: Vince, Joni, Woodstock get the nod Vince writes: > Your title to this thread promised much, much more than it > delivered. > > I was looking to forward to something special I'd be doing > with Joni at Woodstock and it would appear you mean some > other Vince. > Ok Vinnie! What I really meant is that since there are no home games for your baseball game during the probable date of Jonifest, you have no excuse not to attend "Jonifest" which is close to the town of "Woodstock" next year. Happy now??? Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:15:20 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Socialism (again) njc Debra, I'm already aware of everything you explained. Yes it was a perversion of left wing socialism and to put it simplistically, that is why back then while the name was "National Socialism" the various socialist groups of the day gave it the term "right wing" to differentiate it from the rest of them. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:47:01 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: socialism (njc) >Here's a partial description of socialism: >"In a socialist society the means of production are owned by the workers >rather than by a rich minority of capitalists or functionaries. Such a >system of ownership is both collective and individual in nature." >Copied from http://home.vicnet.net.au/~dmcm/ where there's plenty more >info about socialism. >Debra Shea I certainly love this about socialism. . . cooperatives. . . XO Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:51:13 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Kate wrote: > I don't know if the mainstream media is reporting this but I have > heard firsthand that there is much disgruntlement (is that a word? > Lol) among the armed forces towards our administration who speaks > with forked tongue ... I've heard the same thing from several sources, although (predictably) none have been mainstream media. General (Ret.) Wesley Clark, who is a candidate for president in 2004 (and so you may take this with a grain of salt if you wish), has some interesting things to say about Bush and the way he's treating the troops. http://clark04.com/press/release/091/ (and you know there may be more) This particular article came to me by way of a Yahoo email group, Veterans for Peace, of which I am a member. I'm sure you don't have to be a veteran to join. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vfpeace/, if you're interested. Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:54:08 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Speaking of Peace ... This JUST arrived in my mailbox from the Veterans for Peace email group. It's VERY powerful stuff (and my apologies to Bob in SC because Fluor is mentioned, and not in a positive way): http://kucinich.us/dk.html Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:17:31 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: socialism. . .facism (njc) Is it bad to say you hate Bush? Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:28:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: hi from New joni fan Jim Leonard wrote: > As far as "later stuff" is concerned -- if the most recent album > you've heard is Blue -- I'd suggest you do a lot of listening before > you get to Hejira. I think Hejira will be most fully appreciated if > you tackle some (or all) of the preceding post-Blue albums first. > This will allow you to track Joni's progression, particularly her use > of more complex pop- and jazz-influenced arrangements (as opposed to > more spare, acoustic, folk-influenced arrangements). That's true, especially for someone who wishes to learn how to play Joni's music or who wants to study her progression. I found Joni because of Hejira, though. It was my first Joni album, and it completely blew me away. Of course, knowing all of Joni's releases now, I appreciate Hejira more than ever. Lori ~ http://www.aidsmarathon.com/participant.asp?runner=DCNO-3152&year=2003 http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/donorform.pdf ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:29:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Speaking of Peace ... **(and my apologies to Bob in SC because Fluor is mentioned, and not in a positive way):** No apologies needed, Lori...Fluor benefits from Government work, but we're dwarfed by Bechtel in that department. Of course, we do lots of environmental work as well, and the project I just finished up with is a partnership with Eli Lilly to produce the diabetic drug Humalog in Puerto Rico, so we do some good stuff too. But to be sure, all of us at Fluor know that war is good for business. I loved the video, by the way...very powerful stuff. I hope whoever gets the nomination will be able to rally the voters and ditch Bush. Whatever Ralph Nader did good for this country, he erased it all by running third party in '00. It's funny, I remember when Bush won and Relayer said "God help us all", I laughed to myself and thought "C'mon, how bad can one President be?" I had no idea. Anyway, I also stumbled upon this today and was surprised to see that we're not there though our ex-CEO Phil Carroll is: http://www.warprofiteers.com/?campid=18883221 I guess turnabout is fair play! Bob NP: Television, "Little Johnny Jewel" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:40:30 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Kate wrote: > I do not consider my opposition or opinions > 'rhetoric'... That is an easy word to throw out onto someone else's > opinion which just sort of ends the conversation (with a judgment) > imo... (although one meaning of the word rhetoric is actually positive, > these days it is used differently) Maybe I should have called it circular rhetoric. Most all I hear everywhere in opposition to Bush is extreme or paranoid or self-serving or just plain hateful ranting (I'm tempted to name some of the artists, authors and moviemakers quoted here who exemplify that rhetoric but they have been widely lauded and revered here, so there is no point). There is no objectivity, no careful examinations of facts and circumstances, no research or challenge or analysis of what is asserted. It doesn't enlighten - it just seems more like venting or scapegoating to me. It's tiring rather than helpful and I wonder if that may be the main aim - just to wear down your opposition so they give in and agree or walk away. I can't even begin to have the fascism discussion here. Some believe we are living under fascism. I think that's an incredible stretch and a view that makes me sad. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:39:50 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) Speaking of Peace ... Bob, I had no idea you had such a political post in you! Bravo!! > http://www.warprofiteers.com/?campid=18883221 That's great stuff, definitely worth passing on. Thanks! Lori, kinda bummed because the company I work for represents several of the firms listed in the Kucinich video, although just during office space lease negotiations ... still ... : ( ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:41:46 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: socialism. . .facism (njc) > Is it bad to say you hate Bush? Marianne, you're a lesbian ... so yes, it would be bad to say that. ; ) Lori, who can't hate bush either ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:49:34 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) Speaking of Peace ... **Bob, I had no idea you had such a political post in you! Bravo!!** Well, I need to vent every once in a while...it's tough here in SC because we're SO pro-Bush, he pops into town whenever his ego needs a hand job, I think. I'm not overly political but this administration is SO corrupt and destructive and deceitful it makes me spittin' mad. What really bothers me (getting back to your Kucinich video) is that my friends & neighbors here don't have any problems with thousands of innocent Iraqis dying, or even soldiers dying...so long as it's on somebody else's soil. I just don't get it. We've literally seen another 9/11 (brought about by our leaders) and then some in terms of terrorism and death and we don't seem to give a damn. Bob, all vented now NP: The Clash, "Lost In The Supermarket" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:57:36 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: hi from New joni fan On 4 Dec 2003, at 22:27, Jim Leonard wrote: > After Hejira, I'd skip Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus > (although I > love them, and would suggest you come back to them) and head straight > for > Shadows And Light. Like Miles Of Aisles, it's a double live album and > serves > as a wonderful middle-years summation. Actually Jim, I'd not skip Don Juan after Hejira: to me, much of the material on Don Juan is such a good musical fit with Hejira, that it would seem a shame for Sally to miss out on it if she enjoys Hejira. While there is some stuff on Don Juan a skip, it still ranks as one of my favourites for the rest of it (Jericho, in particular.) Incidentally, the songs I really dig from Don Juan happen to be all the ones featuring Jaco. Anyone who knows me won't be very surprised to hear that I guess :) - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:02:09 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Kakki >Maybe I should have called it circular rhetoric. Most all I hear everywhere in opposition to Bush is extreme or paranoid or self-serving or just plain hateful ranting< I am not sure what circular rhetoric is (based on what I expressed) Personally, I don't feel paranoid or self-serving or hateful or that I am ranting...although someone else may interpret my words to be otherwise...I feel alarmed, yes... But hopeful too... >(I'm tempted to name some of the artists, authors and moviemakers quoted here who exemplify that rhetoric but they have been widely lauded and revered here, so there is no point).< Since (so far) this discussion has had nothing to do with those you mention above, I think its much more constructive to just stay with the stuff that has been part of the conversation here...(including those quoted)...otherwise there is some kind of confusing transference going on... >There is no objectivity, no careful examinations of facts and circumstances, no research or challenge or analysis of what is asserted. It doesn't enlighten - it just seems more like venting or scapegoating to me.< Not sure if you are referring to what I posted or to those other groups you mentioned...as for me, I have given it lots of thought & imo it is worth looking at...i did not post to vent or scapegoat... >It's tiring rather than helpful and I wonder if that may be the main aim - just to wear down your opposition so they give in and agree or walk away. I can't even begin to have the fascism discussion here. Some believe we are living under fascism. I think that's an incredible stretch and a view that makes me sad. Kakki< I don't mean to be either tiring or helpful (lol)...as I said my aim is food for thought which of course sometimes is controversial... That is fine if you don't want to take on the fascism discussion as I never intended to go there either! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 01:06:48 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: socialism, old joke, njc An old joke: what's the difference between communism and capitalism? Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man. Communism is the reverse. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:07:56 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Thank you Lori (NJC) > Dear Lori, > > I just checked out the web page dedicated to Andrea and I was touched > beyone words. Thank you taking the time and effort to create such a > beautiful tribute. I finally got a chance to see the face behind the > name and seeing her in that boat alive and smiling caused such a pain > in my heart because I never got a chance to physically meet her. I > will keep her memory in my heart though, you can count on that! > Love, Sherelle Dear Sherelle and Bruce and everyone, It was a privilege and an honor to create a tribute for Andrea, although it certainly was also an incredibly sad task. I wish Andrea were still here with us, and I wish I had made more of an effort to drive the hour and a half to her house when I was at JoniFest in August. Even though she had pneumonia then, even though she and I discussed it over the phone several times that weekend and she felt poorly ... I just wish I had. I will always regret not doing so. But I am grateful that I was able to know Andrea at all (thank you, Bruce, for introducing her to us), and I smile whenever I think of her intelligence and her sense of humor and her witty, wiley ways. (Okay Andrea, you can stop rolling your eyes already!) Lori http://lrfye.lunarpages.com/andrea.doc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:17:27 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: socialism. . .facism (njc) Marianne writes: > Is it bad to say you hate Bush? > LOL, I heard on the radio there is an organization in Michigan called "Babes Against Bush" where they are going to publish a pinup calendar of models with political messages of what Pres. Bush is doing to the world. They figure men will buy the calendars for the pics, yet read about what he's really like during the countdown to election time. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031203/phw018_1.html Jimmy (who loved Lori's comment) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:39:30 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! kakki wrote: >Most all I hear everywhere >in opposition to Bush is extreme or paranoid or self-serving or just plain >hateful ranting There is no >objectivity, no careful examinations of facts and circumstances, no research >or challenge or analysis of what is asserted. It doesn't enlighten - it >just seems more like venting or scapegoating to me. It's tiring rather than >helpful and I wonder if that may be the main aim - just to wear down your >opposition so they give in and agree or walk away. I can't even begin to >have the fascism discussion here. Some believe we are living under fascism. >I think that's an incredible stretch and a view that makes me sad. > > > only to you, Kakki, You generally take criticism of what you believe as vicious mean spirited ignorant groundless attacks, It is who you are. As an intellectual exercise, I would love to see you post what would be an example of a thorough critique and rejection of anything Bush is doing that you would NOT consider "extreme or paranoid or self-serving or just plain hateful ranting. " This is not a criticize of you, by the way, it is who you are. Someone says something glowing about the cubs, I pounce. You pounce when someone criticizes that which is important to you and cuts into something personal to you. That is you and it is fine.. You are both totally broad spirited when it comes to music - you and I can can see vastness of quality in such varieties of music where others can't see much beyond their own tastes. Yet talk politics or baseball and you and I go into our corners and fight thus cornered. Kakki, you are a fantastic person, one of the great people of the JMDL. I hope I have made some sense and you feel that II am trying to say something great about you as a person, just that you, like me, like us all, have our little areas where it is always turf wars. If you feel hurt or insulted by this, I deeply regret that for it was not intended at all. I mean to say this is your corner turf area, I know I have mine, everyone has theirs' and such charming eccentricities is what makes us interesting to our friends. (Other people call them character flaws, but we know that they are charming eccentricities!) with affection to one of the great people out there, who is Kakki, Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:43:15 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc - now very long & religious - be warned!!! :-) ron, i wrote you a long, witty, eloquent, well researched, truly thoughtful piece on your last post and the computer crashed as I spell checked it. I don't have it in me to do it again. I am sorry. I am also angry at the computer crashing as I was trying to send that response. I am off to bed, angry and wishing I could have said more and if fact did, only to be betrayed in some fashion. Blessings, Ron, Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:05:20 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #602 NJC When the brownshirts come down my street rounding everyone up and putting us all under totalitarian martial law and into detention camps and executing all who dissent, maybe then I'll agree with such an opinion. Kakki By then it would be too late. I don't know if the Bush haters are overreacting or the Bush lovers have their heads in their sand. But we should all pay very close attention to possible roll-backs in our civil rights. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:09:17 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #602 - Grammy nom In a message dated 12/4/2003 1:16:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Subject: Vince, Joni, Woodstock get the nod > > The Grammy nominations have been announced. From what I could see from the > categories, the "Woodstock" track from Travelogue was nominated for Best > Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalists. > > I guess that means that Mendoza is the one who is nominated. Brenda??? > > I was pissed that Travelogue didn't get nominated for packaging. > > Jimmy (with an actual JC post) > Yes, one would think the packaging would be nominated, and perhaps an engineering nomination for Best Non-Classical Engineering or whatever it's called. One nom is better than none I guess. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:35:52 EST From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #377 In a message dated 12/4/2003 3:05:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:28:49 -0800 From: DOVETUSAI/ Fabio e Luigi Subject: Joni 1,2 and 3 Hi everybody, Hi Bob, I'm Fabio, from Milan, Italy. My friend Vincenzo ( nasty boy!) speard out the voice about my Website ( www.dovetusai.it ) where you can see two of the flower vases that I designed called Joni 1,2 and 3. It was not my intention to let everybody know through the list.... Since this has already happened ( Vincenzo I'll make you pay ) I would like to explain how to get to see those pictures ( it seems like Bob didn't make it ). Once you have clicked on www.dovetusai.it and seen the Intro, you should click on Collection.Then click on the upper left side on Photo and start clicking on the little arrow and keep clicking untill you see... Joni 2 and 3. Hope you like them... Fabio I think Joni would be pleased - the vases are great - the web-site terrific ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:57:09 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: RIP David Hemmings David Hemmings,the starring actor in one of my alltime favorite movies,Antonioni's masterpiece "Blow up" has just died suddenly at age 62.sad news. _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:06:12 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: socialism. . .facism (njc) No wonder she tries to cover my mouth when Bush is mentioned!! Bree... who likes all the Bushes > > Is it bad to say you hate Bush? > >Marianne, you're a lesbian ... so yes, it would be bad to say that. > >; ) > >Lori, >who can't hate bush either _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:11:46 -0800 From: Gary Zack Subject: The Trouble With Angels NJC I thought I'd just send a light post here - and if I get a response I'll certainly be surprised - but! I received a gift of one of my favorite movies "The Trouble With Angels" with Hayley Mills and Rosalind Russell on DVD today. It was just released on DVD. I've always loved this movie and have always wondered where it was filmed. Does anyone who has seen this movie recognize the convent school the girls went to? It looks like it might be in the eastern part of the U.S. but I've been unable to find any info on the net about it. What a beautiful building it is! (Or is it even real - I believe it is.) And Hayley Mills - well, such a sweetheart! Thanks! Gary Detroit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 00:25:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: The Trouble With Angels NJC check it out here, gary http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0061122/locations wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Gary > Zack > Enviado el: Viernes, 05 de Diciembre de 2003 03:12 a.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: The Trouble With Angels NJC > > >I've always loved this movie and have always wondered > where it was filmed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 00:28:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: futility (njc) LOL!!!! bob, you've completely spoiled my apocalyptic mood. now i'll have to work so hard to regain my pessimism... wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Enviado el: Jueves, 04 de Diciembre de 2003 04:27 p.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz > CC: JMDL ; owner-joni@jmdl.com; rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com > Asunto: Re: futility (njc) > > > the planet will go on spinning, sustaining new habitats and surviving > beings.> > > And I'm willing to bet that about half of those beings will record "Both > Sides Now"! > > ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:29:09 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Fw: steve earle (NJC) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "gene mock" To: "Bruce Kimerer" Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 7:07 PM Subject: Re: steve earle (NJC) > amen bruce, his "sidetracks" cds ain't so bad either. check out his > supporting cast. happy safe holidays all. > gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Kimerer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:27 PM > Subject: steve earle (NJC) > > > > Love him. Good place to start is with the album "I'm Alright." Oddly > enough > > he can, at times, write pop songs that you'd think were written by > > Lennon/McCartney. Check out the great duet with Lucinda Williams on such a > > tune on the above mentioned. > > > > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:43:44 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Love Actually colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk replied (sic): tha doesn't bother me. Romantic comdies are supposed ot be like that. what i found distasteful was that for a film that was supposed to be a celebration of love, it seemed, it was exclusive-white middle class str8's only. It surprises me(perhaps it shouldn't) that such a film was made now. I can understand your view about the homogeneity of the film (although I do think I recall a couple of mixed race moments - am I wrong about that ?) Actually, I did not see it as intended to be a celebration of love, per se, but rather as a pou pourri of a variety of types of relationships that comprise the spectrum of love (not all of them celebratory - some bitter, some bittersweet, some melancholy, some conflicted, etc.). I suppose it would be impossible for such a sampler to cover all of the possibilities, but I agree that it seems a glaring omission to not represent such a large category of relationships in the film. Perhaps even more telling (sad to say) is that I did not really notice it on my own, much less share your distaste in that sense, Colin. I guess we are still a good way from getting to where we need to get - first to the place where such apparent "snubs" occur only infrequently, and after that to the place where when they occasionally do occur they are not received as offensive when no offense may have been intended. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:48:50 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Socialism. Now fascism njc very long! Kakki wrote: > Some believe we are living under fascism. > I think that's an incredible stretch and a view that makes me sad. I don't think that many people really believe we are living under fascism in the U.S., but I think they're afraid we're heading in that direction. Personally, I'm afraid they may be right. And I finally understand the dismay of certain good friends when they discovered that I had put a U.S. flag decal on my car. (I always appreciated their relief that it was a small one, rather than one of those obnoxiously huge magnet flags). So I did indeed remove that decal from my windshield this evening. Besides, I figured out when I was about 15 -- when it came to me like a beacon in the middle of the night, and long before I knew that Socrates (or Eugene Debs) had said it -- that I'm not as much a citizen of one country as I am a citizen of the world. (During one of those moments of synchronicity that have always seemed to occur in my life, a couple of days after I had that "epiphany" my high school history teacher turned to my class and asked us, seemingly out of nowhere: "Are you a citizen of this country, or a citizen of the world?" He did live in my neighborhood, so perhaps we were riding the same thought wave?) Roberto is right. The REAL concern is the continued degradation of our environment. We all must work together, beginning right NOW, to save our planet from complete ruin. Without our Earth, the rest of the discussions are moot. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:58:27 -0800 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: The Trouble With Angels NJC Wally, you're awesome!!! It's off to Ambler, Pennsylvania someday soon! For those interested, read about it here: http://www.dupontcastle.com/castles/lindenwo.htm Thanks again, Wally! You da man! Gary Wally Kairuz wrote: >check it out here, gary http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0061122/locations > >wally > > > >>-----Mensaje original----- >>De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Gary >>Zack >>Enviado el: Viernes, 05 de Diciembre de 2003 03:12 a.m. >>Para: joni@smoe.org >>Asunto: The Trouble With Angels NJC >> >> >>I've always loved this movie and have always wondered >>where it was filmed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:56:36 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The Trouble With Angels NJC Gary wrote: > And Hayley Mills - well, such a sweetheart! Oh, I had SUCH a crush on her when I was quite young! Thanks for the memory, Gary! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 00:03:32 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: facism (NJC) Great post Kate. I don't know for sure if the Bush administration meets all the criteria you posted, but they seem to giving it an awfully good try. I'm reluctant to enter this political thread, because I prefer to read about the music, but the Bush bunch just pisses me off too much. Everything they say is a lie, or a calculated attempt at 'bait and switch.' You really have to go back to Nixon to find a more nefarious crew. But Nixon's deeds were motivated by a more personal psychosis. This gang is being run by an ideological group that wants, more than anything, to destroy the very institutions they lead so that the rich become richer and those with less have even less. Corruption? The guy who wrote the Medicare legislation has been entertaining job offers from the health care lobby for six months. Lies/Disinformation/Murder? The rationale for war. It has become so undeniably clear that the war in Iraq was totally unnecessary. What is more craven than starting a war on false pretenses to distract a nation from the primary intention of destroying the economic future of the majority of the people in order to line the pockets of the already rich? I call it treason. I remember feeling, in 1970-71, that what Nixon and Kissinger were doing in Vietnam and Cambodia was murder. Sending thousands of troops to certain death with the full knowledge that the war was essentially lost and pointless from the get go. Not to mention the unnecessary thousands killed in the bombings. The same is true now. Some say that Iraq and Vietnam are not comparable. I disagree. Both were preemptive wars. Both got Congressional approval through lies by the administration. Both proved to be more difficult, expensive and deadly than the administration promised. I have nothing but contempt for Bush and his people. He is systematically betraying his oath of office. A close second in my contempt, right now, is the American people who seem to choose to believe the lies rather than wake up to the reality. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:03:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Socialism (is God's way) njc --- Lori Fye wrote: > Colin wrote: > > > It baffles me that a country who thinks of itse;f > as Xtian and > > civilised still has the death penalty. > > Good point, Colin, although 12 U.S. states do not > have the death > penalty, and at least 7 of the 38 states that do > have the death penalty > have enacted a moratorium on it pending various > investigations into how > fairly it's applied, etc. > I'm finally back on line after my hard drive crashed, and then my daughter spilled India ink all over the keyboard, messing that up entirely. One thing I totally don't get is that the death penalty is a state-by-state thing and not a national thing. You can get the death penalty over in one state, but cross the border and you don't? We don't have the death penalty in Canada but, when we did, it was a federal crime, not a provincial one, so it wouldn't matter what province you lived in (or committed a hanging crime in.) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #603 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)