From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #575 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, November 19 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 575 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: Spanish names NJC ["Gillian Apter" ] Art for Art's sake ["Kate Bennett" ] stars ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Spanish names NJC [Steve Polifka ] Statue project ["Kate Bennett" ] Warner future [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Spanish names NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Spanish names NJC [Emiliano ] What kind of thing are we?? NJC ["Martin Giles" ] re: Miles Of Aisles ["J. Gonzales" ] RE: Spanish names NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #572 [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #572 NJC [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] joni doesn't have a star? [HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com] Re: 40 watt successes - Joni Star NJC ["kakki" ] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING [Bob.Muller@Fluor.co] Re: Miles Of Aisles ["kakki" ] Re: 40 watt successes [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Spanish names NJC ["David Rahall" ] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Spanish names NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: 40 watt successes njc [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: What kind of thing are we?? NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Spanish names NJC ["David Rahall" ] High tech stops rabies, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Spanish names NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? ["Mark or Travis" ] DQ names NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: instrumental joni njc ["gene mock" ] RE: Spanish names NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Gay-Marriage Ban NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: 40 watt successes - Joni Star NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Band of Gold NJC [vince ] re; art for art's sake (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:30:00 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC Wally wrote: > there's a great piece about these names in nancy mitford's "the pursuit of > love". Me: Brilliant Wally, thanks, I will definitely read that. > anyway, most of the names you mentioned are pre-franco. Some of these names still seem quite common to me among women my age (I'm 48, so it makes sense as they were born when Franco was going full throttle and the Church had a much stronger hold than now. > imagine such combinations as angustias del' orto (anxious ass), soledad del' > orto (lonely ass), inmaculada del' orto (unblemished ass), amparo del' orto > (sheltered ass) etc. the sky is limit. This is HILARIOUS! Muchisimas gracias, Wally un beso, gill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:06:41 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Art for Art's sake >I think when you reach a point of your life you do start a process of reflecting back on you life and loves and you become very melancholy about things and they do run cinematic in your mind much like we remember an old movie right down to the musical score.< This is so true (most of us are younger than joni...but I rememeber how much priorites shifted for my mom as she aged) & so perfectly describes t'log... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:11:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: stars >And no, Joni does not have a star!< BS (ha!) has a star & joni has no star...criminy, the world is inside out... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:16:23 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC What a great name for a drag queen... "And now, ladies- and that one hot man standing in leather- the Club 219 is proud to present Ms. Delores Del Orto!!!" Applause, Steve At 02:22 PM 11/19/2003 -0300, Wally Kairuz wrote: >there's a great piece about these names in nancy mitford's "the pursuit of >love". > >anyway, most of the names you mentioned are pre-franco. they come from >different denominations of the virgin mary (la virgen de los dolores; >asuncion: the ascent of mary into the kingdom of heaven; maria auxiliadora: >comforting mary, etc.). in argentina, these names used to be common among >spanish descendants. some of them became fashionable again in the 80's when >almodovar movies were first shown here! > >sometimes when they are combined with italian last names they are hilarious. >for example, del' orto, means "from the orchard" in italian. it's kind of >usual as a last name. but "orto" in argentine slang means "ass". well, i >know a woman whose name is dolores del' orto, which literally translates >into "pain in the ass". you know, "will ms. pain in the ass please stand >up?" > >imagine such combinations as angustias del' orto (anxious ass), soledad del' >orto (lonely ass), inmaculada del' orto (unblemished ass), amparo del' orto >(sheltered ass) etc. the sky is limit. > >wally > > > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Gillian >> Apter >> Enviado el: Miercoles, 19 de Noviembre de 2003 01:25 p.m. >> Para: anima_rising@yahoo.ca; joni list >> Asunto: Spanish names NJC >> >> >> Catherine wrote: Subject: RE: police raid neverland -- NJC >> >> "Spanish-speaking people name their kids Jesus. But you don't >> meet too many >> Jesuses in the WASP community, do >> ya?" >> >> Jesus may sound weird to the Anglo-Saxons, it sounds totally >> normal in Spain. >> But what about the names Spanish speakers give to women? Some examples: >> >> Dolores (or Lola) = PAINS >> Angustias = Anguishes (The name of my masseuse. Very appropriate) >> Inmaculada = Immaculate >> Concepcion (Concha or Conchi) = Conception >> Maria Jesus >> Asuncion = Assumption >> Purificacion >> Encarnacion >> Visitacion (I must admit, that one is more unusual) >> Amparo = Shelter, Sanctuary, Aid >> Pilar = Basin, tank or pillar, column. It can also mean a bedpost. >> Socorro = Help! (Again, not too common) >> Soledad = Loneliness >> Maria Auxiliadora = Auxiliary Mary ? >> Natividad = Nativity >> >> As for me, I never really thought about what the names really meant, but >> Catherine's comment got me going. Well, at least it hauled me out of my >> lurkdom for a while. >> >> As for the political compass thing, interesting. I scored >> >> - 7.38 LEFT/RIGHT >> - 6.41 LIBERTARIAN/AUTHORITARIAN. Bit of a pinko too, methinks. >> >> take care >> >> gill (in Madrid) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:24:01 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Statue project >I gently suggest that it not be the woman who was in charge of the Beside Herself statue project, which appears to have fallen off the face of the earth without so much as an update.< I've been wondering about that project too...did anyone donate $$...? If so, I hope there has been some sort of update... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:36:14 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Warner future Part of a story from today's LA Times....will affect the catalog eventually, no doubt Warner Music Group Tunes Up for Bidders Time Warner's board is moving toward a decision that could end its three-decade run as a dominant force in the recording industry. By Jeff Leeds, Times Staff Writer On the nation's pop charts, Time Warner Inc. turned in a command performance this year with hits from Linkin Park, Matchbox Twenty and Simple Plan. Behind the scenes, however, the entertainment and media giant is weighing a major retreat from the music business. When Time Warner's board meets Thursday, it is expected to take up two competing offers for pieces of Warner Music Group b and move closer toward a momentous decision that could end the company's three-decade run as a dominant force in the record business and accelerate the industry's move toward consolidation. Since September, Time Warner has been in formal, nonexclusive talks to sell its recorded-music division to EMI Group. The British music giant has offered Warner about $1 billion in cash and a 20% to 25% stake in the combined company. Warner also has been approached by former Seagram Co. Chief Executive Edgar Bronfman Jr. and kids' TV mogul Haim Saban, who have teamed with a number of private investors to offer an estimated $2.5 billion in cash for both Warner's recorded-music and music-publishing operations. That deal would take Warner out of the music industry completely. With the clock ticking before Thursday's board meeting, potential bidders have been angling for better positions. Sources said Tuesday that the Bronfman group recently had tried to sweeten its bid by offering Warner the chance to retain as much as 20% of the new entity. Bronfman b a songwriter who has written for such stars as Celine Dion b also has held talks with Hollywood power broker Jeff Kwatinetz and his management company, the Firm, about a potential role in the new Warner Music structure, according to people familiar with the matter. Sources say Bronfman, Kwatinetz and private equity firm Thomas H. Lee Partners have been meeting quietly for as long as six months. Representatives for Bronfman and Kwatinetz declined to comment. A handful of other investors b among them New York financier Nelson Peltz and billionaire George Soros b have expressed interest in the media giant's music division, sources say. But Time Warner executives have indicated that they remain focused on the offers from EMI and the Bronfman group. "They want to run these two horses," said one person familiar with the situation. On Thursday, Time Warner's board is expected to offer Chairman Richard D. Parsons and his management team its views on what to do with the music division. The board's input comes at a time when the music industry is grappling with a three-year-long sales slump. In a study released Tuesday, research firm Informa Media projected that global retail sales of recorded music would fall 8.9% this year, to $28.2 billion, amid continued unauthorized trading of music files on the Internet and widespread copying of CDs. Reacting to the unprecedented downturn, DreamWorks SKG recently agreed to sell its recorded-music business to industry leader Vivendi Universal for about $100 million. Sony Corp. and Bertelsmann are closing in on a deal to merge their music labels into a jointly owned venture to cut costs. For Warner, any move to scale back would mark a dramatic strategic shift. For much of the year, the company had been locked in exclusive talks with Bertelsmann about merging their recorded-music businesses, a deal that probably would have provided Time Warner with a 50% stake and a central management role in what would rank as the world's second-biggest record company. That deal collapsed over disputes about the value of each company's recordings and other assets. As a result, Warner has turned to offers that would effectively mean bowing out as a significant power in the business after a 36-year span that nurtured the careers of such acts as Joni Mitchell, Madonna, Prince, Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:38:26 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC Wally writes: > "will ms. pain in the ass please stand up?" Here! Speaking of Spanish girls' names, how about Lupe? And getting back to Joni, I wonder what the Guatemalan maid's name was . . . - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:06:32 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC Hi, Bob! Indeed, Lupe is for Guadalupe, from arab "wadi": river and lupus: wolf in latin, so it's (probably) a name after one of the Virgin Mary's appearances, by a river named "Wolf" Maybe I'm wrong with this, but I couldn't resist it ;-) Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: "Steve Polifka" ; ; ; ; Enviado: miircoles, 19 de noviembre de 2003 19:38 Asunto: Re: Spanish names NJC > Wally writes: > > > "will ms. pain in the ass please stand up?" > > Here! > > Speaking of Spanish girls' names, how about Lupe? > > And getting back to Joni, I wonder what the Guatemalan maid's name was . . . > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:49:53 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: What kind of thing are we?? NJC Hi folks I've got a question. In the band (Stryngs) we have all had problems defining our music. We usually end up referring to our various influences, but this usually boils down to something in the singer-songwriter tradition - which doesn't explain a thing about what WE actually sound like. When it comes down to press packs etc. we could really do with a short phrase to sum us up. So my question is.. What is our style of music? Anybody who has heard us care to take a stab? Prizes available to the winning suggestion at next year's Jonifest! : ) Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:03:36 -0800 From: "J. Gonzales" Subject: re: Miles Of Aisles Excuse my butting in... Miles Of Aisles was recorded at the Universal Ampitheatre. If memory serves correctly, this was back when it was an outdoor venue. I'm not absolutely sure of that last part, as I've only ever known of the venue as "covered." My parents saw Sinatra there sometime in the 70s. Anyone recall when they put the lid on it? _________________________________________________________________ Gift-shop online from the comfort of home at MSN Shopping! No crowds, free parking. http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:27:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC oh i've just remembered something! there's a very posh girl's school a couple of blocks away from here called "jesus consolador" (comforting jesus). "consolador" is one the local slang words for dildo. so all these upper-class girls in pleated kilts and ponytails are going to a school that's called "dildo jesus"!!!! what were these nuns thinking????? i love translating english names into spanish (sometimes literally, sometimes phonetically). they sound so silly and ludicrous. let's see if you can guess these: isabel sastre josefina panadero lucila pelota (this one's my favorite!!! it re-translates into "flaunt your ball"!) marilina cuerno britania lanzas arroyito escudos elena reventando leontina precio oh if you could just FEEL how funny they sound in spanish. i can't believe english-speaking people don't shriek when they hear these names! wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:31:25 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #572 In a message dated 11/18/03 11:34:31 PM EST, les@jmdl.com writes: << Thanks for asking, Kate. I don't get that either. I also don't understand what a "civil union" is if it isn't the same as marriage. Confused in Canada. >> I'm not quite sure meself, i think it has to do with legally being allowed to live together, since that is kinda sketchy still. i would say it has to do with the spiritual side of marriage, except we all know how gov't feels about mixing with spirit. still i must say as step is a step, tiny as it might be. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:35:57 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #572 NJC damn, on my last post i forgot to type NJC in the subject line...forgive me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:44:50 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: joni doesn't have a star? is this true that joni doesn't have a star? what the.... and anna nicole smith does? omg, it's no wonder gays can't legally marry and we're at war when the large percentage of the nation doesn't want it and jacko still owns a place called neverland. it's no wonder people "care" that jlo and ben broke up but couldn't give a hang that we don't live in a democracy anymore ( if we ever did). well, maybe i'm being a tinsy bit over the top, but dang, if joni doesn't deserve a star, who does? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:50:40 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: 40 watt successes - Joni Star NJC Bob wrote: > Of course, hundreds of years from now when space age people are flying over > the walk in their Jetson-mobiles, they'll recognize Joni as one of the premier > composers of the 20th century and say "Britney who?" At least that is my > fervent prayer. That's how I see it, too! Joni does have an edge in L.A., though, because she is very well-known (famous) and revered here. But I wonder if she wants a star? I could see her being ambivalent about being thrown in with the masses ;-) but it would give her a little piece of honor and immortality for future generations to notice. I'll check into it more. But I've already marked Murphy for my application-writing committee! ;-) One of the qualifying criteria is that the nominee have a record of contributions to the community. Does anyone have any input on Joni's contributions? I have read of her involvement in school and community programs in Canada, and I'm sure that would count. Plus, she has participated in Live Aid and other concerts and a number of animal/environmental events. We also would have to brainstorm about ways to raise the $15K! But first we have to find out if she is agreeable to the project! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:43:55 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING "Yes they are stellar - but aren't you asking Joni to paint a starry night again?" No, she made that choice all on her own with a whole collection of her own redone songs. The second half of the 'starry night' quote had to do with "once it's done, it's done" or something to that effect, right? Of course, I don't hold Joni in 2002 to adhere to an off-the-cuff remark she made in 1974, that would be silly. I was making a comparison between a couple of tracks that REALLY sound great to me (Gershwin's World) vs. a bunch that are much less effective, for a variety of reasons, none of which has to do with her voice I will add. I'll also add that I'm not totally nuts about the whole of Gershwin's World...it, like Travelogue, could do with some serious editing. "Joni is the restless innovator - in asking her to record Travelogue with a small jazz combo I think she has already been there, done that, from the Jaco stuff up to the '98 band." Well, the "jazz combo" project should have been BSN anyway. Like you say, the majority of Joni's work doesn't translate to this mode (nor does it translate to multi-orchestration imo - I would offer as exhibit A the orchestrated "Hejira" where that beautiful opening hypnotic riff is all but lost and drowned out). The only real "jazz combo" project she's had previously is the Mingus project, and even then only Sweet Sucker Dance, Chair In The Sky, Pork Pie Hat, and Dry Cleaner fit the mold. Wolf In Lindsey & Boogie Man don't. Besides that, there were one-off's like Blue Motel Room, Centerpiece, Twisted, Be Cool...and one of the reasons they worked so well was that they added to the variety of the sonics. Just look at the variety of arrangements you hear on Court & Spark...stark piano ballads (Court & Spark), woodwind-augmented symphonette (Down To You), bebop jazz (Twisted), rock & roll (Raised on Robbery), acoustic pop (Just Like This Train), electric pop (Help Me) and so on. Travelogue on the other hand has the same dreary overwrought sameness to the sound (even when it's trying to be peppy!). I'm not saying she should have done this with a jazz trio, although David Lahm, Rachel Z, Steve Klink, Lydia van Dam & others have proven that her composition lends itself wonderfully to jazz interpretation. I think about half of the Travelogue songs shouldn't have been done at all and they lose their intimacy. I think the sequencing is wacky (oh, the frumpy dirges one must slog through to get to God Must Be A Boogie Man!) in places, I think the production/engineering is poor. Joni's voice is too low in the mix, or else these arrangements are just TOO BUSY. The rough recordings from the Hommage sound much more exciting to me, mostly because Joni is out in front and not fumbling through the musical maze as is on the disc. If she is the "restless innovator" (and we are lockstep in thought here, David) why not be TRULY creative and do some of these with a string quartet, or a woodwind quintet, or a solo cello or kazoo or bagpipes or SOME VARIETY in the instrumentation? That would enable Joni's vocal (which is surely one of the intended focuses of this project, don't you think?) to shine through, and would even give the musicians a chance to offer up an enjoyable solo, perish the thought. The closest we get is Herbie's on "Boogie Man". Ironically, Joni's MUSIC gets lost because there's so darn much of it. I guess we just have to 'agree to disagree' on the innovative nature of this project. I don't see it as very innovative at all, BUT it could have been. Would it even exist had she not had the contractual obligation? Anyway, regardless of what my opinion of this project is, I am truly delighted that you & others enjoy it, David. Perhaps one day I'll feel the same. Bob NP: Bruce Cockburn, "The Mines Of Mozambique" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:12 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Miles Of Aisles > Miles Of Aisles was recorded at the Universal Ampitheatre. If memory serves > correctly, this was back when it was an outdoor venue. I'm not absolutely > sure of that last part, as I've only ever known of the venue as "covered." > My parents saw Sinatra there sometime in the 70s. Anyone recall when they > put the lid on it? That's correct - it was recorded at UA when it was open air and I was there one of the nights (8/17/74)! I think they put the lid on it sometime shortly thereafter ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:44:58 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re: 40 watt successes Bob wrote: I gently suggest that it not be the woman who was in charge of the Beside Herself statue project, which appears to have fallen off the face of the earth without so much as an update. I think the lead should be taken by an enthusiastic fan, a go-getter who knows how to get things done in LA. Sound like anyone you know, Kakki?! --Bob, awake with a cold way too early and wondering who will play Ethel (MERTZ!) to my Lucy when I come to LA and steal Joni's star! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------------------- I think Kakki and Cyote Rick should get in touch with Charles Valentino to spear head this star thing. He has connections to Angelica Houston and Roseanna Arquett and they all adore Joni. I spent alot of time with Valentino in Saskatoon and he is a very accessable and kind person. We could also talk to Jim Johanson to get in touch to make the suggestion that we do this as a gift from the Homepage and JMDL group. I'll try to contact Valentino if I can. I've invited him to come stay at the ranch but as yet I haven't heard from him. Joni's star in Toronto is next to Neal Young"s, I have a photo of it we could post as a campaign ad. As for Eythl Mertz's part I nominate myself Bob because I have the extra weight required of her, big titts, and a very loud mouth. David always says "Please do NOT talk so loud"! Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:25:35 -0500 From: "David Rahall" Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC Oooh, I feel another possible "gay thread" coming on! Some of the funnier drag queen names I remember from when I was a young homo here in Atlanta: Marsha Dimes Tiffany Middlesex Jenny Tonic These were from over 20 years ago, btw!:-) David Rahall NP: "Assassins" original cast album - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Polifka" To: "Wally Kairuz" ; "Gillian Apter" ; ; "joni list" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 1:16 PM Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC > What a great name for a drag queen... > > "And now, ladies- and that one hot man standing in leather- the Club 219 is > proud to present Ms. Delores Del Orto!!!" > > Applause, > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:03:55 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? LONG & RAMBLING Well that's a mouthful, as it were, and very well stated. Let me respond by pointing to 3 songs on Travelogue: Otis and Marlena - I loved the original. Before Travelogue's release I kept hearing that beautiful guitar intro. orchestrated. I buy the product (shudder) flip it on and what do I hear? This gorgeous voice singing the syllable MAR...no insturments at all. Oh, Oh I thought she's done it again, confounded all my expectations. After another 100 listens I realized the point - Joni is saying this album is about my voice and my ability as a storyteller in song. There are 2 songs to illustrate, both of which took me forever to appreciate mainly because I loved the originals and the new versions seemed to turn the songs upside down. For The Roses: loved the tune because it was so beautiful, all I saw was standing by the ocean looking at the black water, listening to the wind. Under that scenario beauty is a virtue. The new version seemed full of tension. But now the song's drama (the boards and the nails, the empty spotlight, people who have slices of you, teeth sunk in the hand) was conveyed to me by the new interpretation. The Last Time I Saw Richard: In the original I always saw the narrator as the one in the right - she would get her gorgeous wings and fly away - it indeed was only a phase.But that made sense in '71 but not when the song was redone in '02. A phase doesn't last for 30 years. (from '68 - the last time.she saw Richard) What is done with the new arrangement is very subtle, but I believe its Joni's tongue in cheek delivery - much to my surprise Richard and the narrator are both losers and they were both right about each other. Here it is 30 years later and Richard still is denying his romantic nature (the songs you punched are dreaming) at home now most nights with the TV on, The narrator is still denying her cynicism but she is still hidin' behind bottles in dark cafes 30 years down the road. What happened to those gorgeous wings? The song has been transformed into a short story of modern despair (or a dark joke) among the aging boomers. So anyway I haven't responded to your points really but to me Travelogue is great literature. You obviously have good reasons for your opinions and I enjoy the discussion. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:29:01 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: 40 watt successes - Joni Star NJC --- kakki wrote: > One of the > qualifying criteria is that > the nominee have a record of contributions to the > community. I'm probably going to regret asking, but what in the name of Joni has Britney Spears done for the community? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:39:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC --- David Rahall wrote: > Oooh, I feel another possible "gay thread" coming > on! > > Some of the funnier drag queen names I remember from > when I was a young homo > here in Atlanta: > > Marsha Dimes > Tiffany Middlesex > Jenny Tonic > > These were from over 20 years ago, btw!:-) OMG, too funny, especially Marsha Dimes! Strippers used to have names like that too. And then again there's the singer - and I understand it's her real name - Frieda Pain! (which reminds me there used to be a guy at work whose name was Lance Payne!) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:21:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC "And then again there's the singer - and I understand it's her real name - Frieda Pain!" Freda Payne - Great R&B singer, huge hit with "Band of Gold". But what's funny about it? If it was "Freda Chicago7" now THAT would be funny! Bob NP: Joni & The Persuasions, "Why Do Fools..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:22:12 -0500 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: 40 watt successes njc > --Bob, awake with a cold way too early and wondering who will play Ethel > (MERTZ!) to my Lucy when I come to LA and steal Joni's > star! Haha! I saw that one last night, too, Bob! But it was the now defunct Grohman's (sp) Chinese Theater, not the Walk of Fame, silly. Have you been hitting the Veggameeta Vitamin again? I nominate Paz for your Ethel, btw, as he's been craving an "extreme" make-over like crazy anyways. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:25:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: What kind of thing are we?? NJC "What is our style of music?" Um...good? :~) But that doesn't really help, does it? I mean, it's much better if it fits in a nice pre-defined niche. That seems to be the problem with most of the artists I like, they don't niche very well. Jazz? Rock? Pop? Folk? Yes! That being said, I would say you're "Adult Contemporary". Bob NP: Joni & The Persuasions, "Shadows & Light" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:30:09 -0500 From: "David Rahall" Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC I've always loved it when, near the end of Robert Altman's movie "Nashville," the Barbara Harris character shouts out (while singing the song "It Don't Worry Me" before a crowd at the Pantheon who came to hear Barbara Jean and Haven Hamilton): "Dead people are free from pain!!" David Rahall ----- Original Message ----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com To: anima_rising@yahoo.ca ; dasaff@bellsouth.net ; joni@smoe.org Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:21 PM Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC "And then again there's the singer - and I understand it's her real name - Frieda Pain!" Freda Payne - Great R&B singer, huge hit with "Band of Gold". But what's funny about it? If it was "Freda Chicago7" now THAT would be funny! Bob NP: Joni & The Persuasions, "Why Do Fools..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:14:49 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: High tech stops rabies, njc Raccoons with rabies are a problem in the USA state called Georgia. > "Raccoons in northwest Georgia can take a break from raiding > garbage cans because officials are treating them to a meal. The fish pellets being > (dropped by airplane) in sections of Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee have a > hidden ingredient: rabies vaccine. Pretty cool, huh? Among the pellets are plastic vials, containing the vaccine and a bright yellow dye for the raccoon's teeth. Naturalists hope to be able to guage the effectiveness by looking for the dye when they "encounter" racoons in traps or as roadkill. Insert your own joke here. All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:26:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > "And then again > there's the singer - and I understand it's her real > name - Frieda Pain!" > > Freda Payne - Great R&B singer, huge hit with "Band > of Gold". But what's > funny about it? If it was "Freda Chicago7" now THAT > would be funny! > Gimme some demerol - then I'll be Freda Payne! Get it? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:37:56 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? . I mean you can't do justice to > Sire of Sorrow by treating it like The Man I Love. > > > peace, david Amen again, Brother! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: What kind of thing are we?? NJC --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > "What is our style of music?" > > Um...good? :~) > > But that doesn't really help, does it? I mean, it's > much better if it fits in > a nice pre-defined niche. That seems to be the > problem with most of the > artists I like, they don't niche very well. > > Jazz? Rock? Pop? Folk? > Yes! > > That being said, I would say you're "Adult > Contemporary". > Y'know, I almost said the very same thing. First it was, er, umm, "unique" and then, er, umm, "Stryngs has their own unique style of, er umm, uniqueness. Yeah, that's it." and then it was, "Adult contemporary?" but what a boring phrase that is (still, most of the unique, not-so-nichy music I've discovered lately seems to be classed that way.) Putting all Bob's words together, how about jazzrockfolkpop? jarofopo for short, all o's short o's, accent on the second syllable. (There are so many oddball names for music these days - I don't understand what trip-hop is, but the name sounds kinda funky. And where does emo come from?) ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:57:08 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > > i love translating english names into spanish > (sometimes literally, > sometimes phonetically). they sound so silly and > ludicrous. > > let's see if you can guess these: > > isabel sastre > josefina panadero > lucila pelota (this one's my favorite!!! it > re-translates into "flaunt your > ball"!) > marilina cuerno > britania lanzas > arroyito escudos > elena reventando > leontina precio > > oh if you could just FEEL how funny they sound in > spanish. i can't believe > english-speaking people don't shriek when they hear > these names! > wally The only ones I could figure out are: lucila pelota LUCILLE BALL britania lanzas BRITNEY SPEARS leontina precio LEONTYNE PRICE I'm kind of guessing (from the first name) that marilina cuerno might be MARILYN MUNRO, but I don't know why, because I have no idea what a "cuerno" is (or a Munro for that matter.) There was a movie Goldie Hawn was in where her character's name was Gloria Mundy (as in "sic transit gloria mundi")- I don't remember the film much, but I remember that name. I like making up silly names that mean something in another language but that *sound* normal in English - like Grazie LoStesso (which is Italian for "thanks just the same.") And then again, Giuseppe Verdi would just be Joe Green in English! ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:02:02 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: DQ names NJC i've always loved hedda lettuce and bertha vastarr! mine would be bette charass. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de David > Rahall > Enviado el: Miircoles, 19 de Noviembre de 2003 08:26 p.m. > Para: Joni List > Asunto: Re: Spanish names NJC > > > Oooh, I feel another possible "gay thread" coming on! > > Some of the funnier drag queen names I remember from when I was a > young homo > here in Atlanta: > > Marsha Dimes > Tiffany Middlesex > Jenny Tonic > > These were from over 20 years ago, btw!:-) > > David Rahall > > NP: "Assassins" original cast album > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Polifka" > To: "Wally Kairuz" ; "Gillian Apter" > ; ; "joni list" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 1:16 PM > Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC > > > > What a great name for a drag queen... > > > > "And now, ladies- and that one hot man standing in leather- the Club 219 > is > > proud to present Ms. Delores Del Orto!!!" > > > > Applause, > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:10:04 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: instrumental joni njc Hello, if you like Ralph Towner, try any of the early Oregon cd's------and if you can only buy one, buy "Oregon Live at Yoshi's" and listen to the last track "Witchi Tai Too." later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Anderson" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 10:42 PM Subject: instrumental joni > My favorite instrumental cds > Michael Hedges Aerial Boundaries > Jim Hall Concierto De Aranjuez > Les McCann Invitations to Openess beautiful improvisational jazz > Rick Ruskin (amazing lp that came out in the mid 70's instrumental acoustic > guitar > Nick Drake Pink Moon (not all insturmental but very sparse) > William Ackerman many cds on windham hill > Icarus by Paul Winter Consort > Ralph Towner on ecm label very moody and beautiful > John Mclaughlan Waltz for Debbie (tribute to Bill Evans > Steve Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:10:32 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC great, cath! marilina cuerno is marilyn horne (cuerno=horn), an american contralto. well, i'll give emiliano a chance and then i'll send the "answer key". wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Catherine McKay > Enviado el: Miercoles, 19 de Noviembre de 2003 11:57 p.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz; Emiliano; Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: RE: Spanish names NJC > >> > > let's see if you can guess these: > > > > isabel sastre > > josefina panadero > > lucila pelota (this one's my favorite!!! it > > re-translates into "flaunt your > > ball"!) > > marilina cuerno > > britania lanzas > > arroyito escudos > > elena reventando > > leontina precio > > The only ones I could figure out are: > lucila pelota LUCILLE BALL > britania lanzas BRITNEY SPEARS > leontina precio LEONTYNE PRICE > I'm kind of guessing (from the first name) that > marilina cuerno might be MARILYN MUNRO, but I don't > know why, because I have no idea what a "cuerno" is > (or a Munro for that matter.) > > There was a movie Goldie Hawn was in where her > character's name was Gloria Mundy (as in "sic transit > gloria mundi")- I don't remember the film much, but I > remember that name. I like making up silly names that > mean something in another language but that *sound* > normal in English - like Grazie LoStesso (which is > Italian for "thanks just the same.") And then again, > Giuseppe Verdi would just be Joe Green in English! > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------- > We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:16:06 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Gay-Marriage Ban NJC i'm forwarding this for those of you in a hurry to tie the knot. i just received it from the provincetown bears. wally message follows: Hi Bears, There is a lot of celebrating here in the Bay State. For people on our list outside of our local news market, yesterday our highest court ruled that it was illegal under the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to bar gays from civil marriage. The court stipulated that the Legislature must amend marriage laws within 180 days, and conservatives in the legislature are balking, but legal experts say that they have no choice, and gay marriages must be allowed. A proposed constitutional amendment banning gay marriage will be difficult to undertake - it requires majority vote in the legislature for two consecutive years followed by a state-wide referendum, a minimum of three years during which gay marriages are mandated to take place. The Town Clerks Office at Provincetown Town Hall is expecting "an army of license-seekers". 180 days falls on a Saturday in mid-May, so the first day possible to apply for a gay marriage license will be Monday, May 17th. Both applicants need to be present, but neither need to be residents. You will also need to provide a valid medical certificate, which can be obtained from your doctor (Outer Cape Health Services in P'town can also do the pre-marital blood work). There is a three day waiting period for issuing the marriage license, and it is valid for 60 days. The marriage license will need to be signed by an ordained minister or justice of the peace. Massachusetts law also allows a friend or family member to apply for "special permission to perform a marriage" by contacting the Governor's office. (Since Governor Mitt Romney opposed gay marriages, it will be interesting to see if he will follow the law - it is worth a try.) The existing rules for obtaining a marriage license are on line at http://usmarriagelaws.com/search/united_states/massachusetts/index.shtml. For information on accommodations and services in Provincetown, check with the Provincetown Business Guild's web site: http://www.ptown.org . For more news updates, check the Freedom to Marry Coalition of Massachusetts at: http://www.equalmarriage.org . Yours, John (Provincetown Bears) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:26:33 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: 40 watt successes - Joni Star NJC Catherine bitterly spits: << what in the name of Joni has Britney Spears done for the community? >> I may be confusing Britney with some other product, but I believe she has a camp of some kind. A performance camp for children who are dying to entertain, or something like that. Regarding Joni and her star . . . would Joni think a star on the Walk of Fame was cool, or would she consider it like a totally Valerie Harper thing to do? Are any of her (ha!) peers represented, or is the WoF mostly TV and movie people, like Pat Sajak and Adam Sandler? - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:29:45 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 Sure. Remember about 2 years ago, after we heard that Joni was going to London to record at Sir George Martin's Air Studio again? Before the CBC aired "WOMAN OF HEART AND MIND" and when "A TRAVELOGUE" was still under wraps? We were talking about a documentary by Alison Anders shot of the sessions. It hasn't showed up on DVD yet. I guess no one has figured out that it'll never make money as a theatrical release or a pay-per-view so it's in limbo I guess. - --- Thanks for posting parts of the article. It is neat that Kelly/Kilauren takes home movies (tour again) at Joni's awards shows. How can she stay mad (tour soon) at the Industry when her own kid (take Kilauren on tour) helps her take the edge off? (ecstatic applause. tour in Summer of '04.) as the subliminal guy, Lama The article at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1017 said, "Two documentaries chronicling her life are slated for release next year. The first, Circle Game, is a behind-the-scenes look at the making of Travelogue, which includes the story of the master tapes nearly being destroyed in a studio fire. It's been submitted for next year's Sundance Film Festival. " McKay asked, >does anyone know anything about this "Circle Game" video mentioned near the end?> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:31:31 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: 40 watt successes njc Julius writes: << But it was the now defunct Grohman's (sp) Chinese Theater, not the Walk of Fame, silly. >> I knew that, Julius, but I went for the joke anyway. And hasn't Mann's continued the handprints and footprints thing? That's what we should get Joni to do. We'll tell her it's an art project. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:42:37 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Spanish names NJC Muller writes: << Freda Payne - Great R&B singer, huge hit with "Band of Gold" >> Speaking of which, may I toss out a question about this song? From what I can hear of the lyrics, it sounds to me as if she's singing to her new husband who couldn't, well . . . get the purple trouser monster to stand up straight on their honeymoon night. Is this what the song is really about -- "Come back and love me, like you tried before" -- or am I sicker than I know? - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:49:42 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: High tech stops rabies, njc Lama writes: << Insert your own joke here. >> Not tonight, Jim, I have a headache. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:01:11 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: The walk of stars, oooh! kakki wrote: And no, Joni does not have a star! So who is going to take the lead on this?? ;-) We'd be tripping over it before David Geffen finished the third of a triple snap. Seriously, though do we really think she'd dig it? Maybe a sustaining music/painting scholarship in her name across the street at UCLA would be a greater honour. DG? God knows they need some new pianos in the Schoenberg practice rooms. CC NP: "Cherokee Louise", Travelogue _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:03:08 -0500 From: vince Subject: Band of Gold NJC Freda phrased it more elegantly than you - That night on our honeymoon we stayed in separate rooms come back right through my door and love me like you tried before all that I'm left is this band of gold and the memories of what love could be if you were right here with me Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >Muller writes: > ><< Freda Payne - Great R&B singer, huge hit with "Band of Gold" >> > >Speaking of which, may I toss out a question about this song? From what I can >hear of the lyrics, it sounds to me as if she's singing to her new husband >who couldn't, well . . . get the purple trouser monster to stand up straight on >their honeymoon night. Is this what the song is really about -- "Come back and >love me, like you tried before" -- or am I sicker than I know? > >--Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:20:55 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: re; art for art's sake (NJC) Why does an artist create? I guess that's the basic question here. For some, they have a distribution system waiting for their product(s) to put them into the marketplace. This is true for recording artists as much as it is for visual artists. If the distribution system is eager for the product (because they know it will sell well), does this mean the product is of lesser artistic quality? Not necessarily. For others, without a distribution system, they make art hoping to find a distribution system that will deliver their products to a wider world. For these 'undiscovered' artists, does this mean their products are artistically important? Not necessarily. Others create their own distribution system. Does this make their art terrific? Not necessarily. If Britney was dropped by her record company, would she market her work herself? My guess is no, because she is a creation of the company. If an artist has become used to the support of the distribution system over many years, can you blame them for feeling disappointed when their work gets less-than-stellar promotion and marketing? When an artist has moved beyond the current fashion, can you blame the distribution company for putting less emphasis on their products? I believe that most artists make their art for it to be experienced, at some point, by others. That's why it is a form of communication. Writing, music, painting, they're all a means of telling somebody something. A communication medium needs a form of distribution to find an audience. Publishers, record companies, galleries/museums. Big, small, independent, self-distributed, a means must be found to get the work around. Art for the sole sake of the artist? Rare indeed. Bruce ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #575 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)