From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #574 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, November 19 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 574 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? ["Ross, Les" ] Re: An interesting test njc ["Ross, Les" ] Fw: RE: civil unions, NJC (for AOL Users) [emilianopd@mundo-r.com] Re: 40 watt successes NJC (this subject line needed a bit of copy-editing for God's sake! [] Re: 40 watt successes NJC (this subject line needed a bit of copy-editing fo... [SCJoniGu] Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 [Catherine McKay ] Re: An interesting test njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: civil unions, NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] very lucky. ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC [Jerr] Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: 40 watts succeses NJC [Steve Polifka ] Re: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete [] Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete [Michael Paz ] Re: 40 watt successes NJC (this subject line needed a bit of copy-editing for God's sake! [Steve Polifka ] Spanish names NJC ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: correspondence with richardson's roundup [Rick ] My Top T-loggers [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Favs and least favs [Justalittlebreen@aol.com] RE: Spanish names NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? ["J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? Bob wrote >I listened again Sunday to the 2 Joni vocal tracks on Herbie's "Gershwin's >World" cd, and they are SO strong, if only Joni had taken that lead with >her interpretations of her own songs it would have been a stellar >recording. I agree with this and with the summation that came before it in his post. Though not wild about the songs covered on herbie's compilation, her work nevertheless, was splendid. Someone earlier wrote too, that T'log was best listened to in 'couple-of-song' lumps to be best enjoyed. I think, for me, that's the way forward in 'getting' this work. Otherwise I'm still struggling with the god-awful arrangements. The are so cumbersome in some of these versions. Where BSN worked better that T'log is in this particular respect. It allowed Joni's voice more space to do it's magic and I think she did make magic on BSN. I wont try to suggest her vocal instrument is at its best, it still gives me chills of the favoured kind when given the right setting. Les (London) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:41:00 -0000 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Re: An interesting test njc ..though I thought some of the questions were bolloxed by slant..... I got Economic left/right -4.75 Libertarian/authoritarian -4.10 Les (london) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:48:45 +0000 (GMT) From: emilianopd@mundo-r.com Subject: Fw: RE: civil unions, NJC (for AOL Users) Wally says: at least in buenos aires, a civil union is the legal process by which any two people, regardless of gender, register their partnership at the civil registry (maybe the equivalent to a US city hall?). partners' rights involving health benefits, sick leaves, visitation in intense care units and such are legally recognized. nevertheless, adoption and the right to become each other's direct heir are still not legislated. in argentina, people can will only a small portion of their estates. the rest goes automatically to what is legally known as "forced heirs", i.e., children from previous marriages and parents. therefore, even if a civil union has been duly registered, a partner loses ownership of any joint property on the death of the other partner. marriage would allow the partner to keep half of the joint estate, apart from giving the couple the right to adopt children and receive full recognition in the entire territory of the nation. it would also give a foreign partner the right to apply for and receive argentine citizenship. if testamentary succession were more liberally implemented in argentina, civil union would be tantamount to marriage, except of course for the thorny adoption issue. the main objection to same-sex marriage in argentina is mainly a money issue. what would happen to all those helpless polo-playing, oxford-educated 50somethings if dad willed his lands and livestock to me, for example? wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > LCStanley7@aol.com > Enviado el: Miercoles, 19 de Noviembre de 2003 03:00 a.m. > Para: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: civil unions, NJC > > > Catherine wrote: > > > Thanks for asking, Kate. I don't get that either. I > > also don't understand what a "civil union" is if it > > isn't the same as marriage. > > > > Confused in Canada. > > I'm not authority, but apparently a civil union is a union > that has > legal benefits regarding finances and health, etc., yet is more > inclusive than > marriage. Marriage is a word derived from the word "maritus" which means > "husband." The root of husband refers to "house master," > implying that in > marriage, the husband is the master of the house over the wife. > Aren't Gay couples > more equal than that? > > Civil unions have the potential to benefit society as those set in > relationships for life afford stability to community and these unions are > economically advantageous. The concept of a civil union is > prophetic in that it has > the potential to be more inclusive than marital unions and > theoretically could > apply to all combinations of people living together for life, such as two > sisters or a son taking care of an elderly father, etc. Change > is coming oh > yeah. > > Love and awe, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:51:55 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: 40 watt successes NJC (this subject line needed a bit of copy-editing for God's sake! Kakki writes: << And no, Joni does not have a star! So who is going to take the lead on this?? ;-) >> I gently suggest that it not be the woman who was in charge of the Beside Herself statue project, which appears to have fallen off the face of the earth without so much as an update. I think the lead should be taken by an enthusiastic fan, a go-getter who knows how to get things done in LA. Sound like anyone you know, Kakki?! --Bob, awake with a cold way too early and wondering who will play Ethel (MERTZ!) to my Lucy when I come to LA and steal Joni's star! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:29:17 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: 40 watt successes NJC (this subject line needed a bit of copy-editing fo... I'm behind this 100% BUT keep in mind that it's the "Walk of Fame" & not the "Wolk of Talent"! Hence, Britney inclusion. To paraphrase Bobsart in our Central Park walk, the majority of people out there don't have a clue as to who Joni is, but you would be pressed to find someone who doesn't know who Britney is. As far as being FAMOUS is concerned Britney has a big edge. Of course, hundreds of years from now when space age people are flying over the walk in their Jetson-mobiles, they'll recognize Joni as one of the premier composers of the 20th century and say "Britney who?" At least that is my fervent prayer. Bob NP: Al Green, "Million To One" PS: Vince, of course I got Let It Be...Naked. I was just too busy reading the book that came with it to post! ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:02:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 --- ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: > On November 19 the following articles were > published: > 2002: "Joni Mitchell says her songs aren't > 'disposable,' new meaning on latest album" - > Canadian Press > (Interview) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1017 This article is very timely. It deals with the "what is art?" question, Travelogue, today's artists, the cesspool that is today's music industry, being true to yourself and a few other things. Here are a few snippets below, but does anyone know anything about this "Circle Game" video mentioned near the end? - ---------------------------------------------------- Joni Mitchell says her songs aren't 'disposable,' new meaning on latest album by Angela Pacienza Canadian Press November 19, 2002 TORONTO (CP) - When veteran singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell had to produce another album to fulfil a recording contract she didn't force out new material because she thought the old songs still had something to say. And she wasn't about to compromise her ideals or be pushed around by music executives looking to make a few bucks, she said while visiting Toronto this week. "I don't want songs to be disposable. Instead of being swayed to demographic and marketing procedures, it has to mean something. We've got to change that (in the industry)." ... She says musicians nowadays write for marketers, not themselves or fans. "Music is too calculated now," she said, her famous blond locks neatly trimmed to shoulder length. "It's good for aerobics, but it isn't moving." ... "The artist's job is to sit on the sidelines. We're supposed to be outcasts. An artist is not a politician. We have to be non-partisan, skeptical." But the veteran singer-songwriter says she's not prepared to write for the sake of writing and doesn't have to because Travelogue fulfilled her recording contract. "In order to write again there's going to have to be a real shift in me. Where that will come from, I don't know," said Mitchell, adding that she's still painting so "the creative juices are there." ... Two documentaries chronicling her life are slated for release next year. The first, Circle Game, is a behind-the-scenes look at the making of Travelogue, which includes the story of the master tapes nearly being destroyed in a studio fire. It's been submitted for next year's Sundance Film Festival. The second is a PBS documentary tentatively scheduled for release next May. It contains rare footage of Mitchell's earliest performances in 1966, audio recordings of never released material, her acting debut and home movies taken by her daughter Gibb, Mitchell's only child who she gave up for adoption and reunited with several years ago. Carrying a camcorder, Gibb, who strongly resembles Mitchell, video-taped Monday night's ceremony as she does at "all these things." "I don't mind. I do it for her," she said, wearing a matching Miyake dress. "I film award shows, walks, us playing Crazy 8s." ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:53:39 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Blows Against the Empire njc Blows Against the Empire appears to be in print and available on cd, pretty cheap too. Amazon had it for $10.99. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of vince > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 1:35 AM > To: MINGSDANCE@aol.com > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Blows Against the Empire njc > > > in the meantime if you know someone who can record a record to hard > drive to disk, you can borrow it to make a copy for private use only, > not for professional purposes (enough disclaimer?) and then return it - > > MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: > > > Thanks Vince, It's great to know I can still pull things out of > my aging > >mind correctly. > >I would love to buy it but I wouldn't take your copy from you. > David put all > >of my albums in the barn when I was in Texas one year and I've > yet to dig them > >out but I'm sure it looks like the rolling hills of South > Dakota:~) You must > >be a man of God to present it so quickly. I'll keep searching > the record bin > >at Ear Wax and one day I'll find it. I need to buy a turntable > first though. > >Thanks > >Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:04:13 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Jim expanded Hi Bob, "I wasn't slamming you for naviete. It's just my coarse humor, okay?" I know you weren't, Jim. And I wouldn't rib you about that modern spell-check technology, either :-) Best always, Bobsart PS - remember to be a nice boy for the next month or so, Jim. Santa's makin' a list, and checkin' it twice, you know .......;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:09:11 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Jim replied about CSN and Woodstock "Bad cassettes. Very bad cassettes. It wasn't "shot" with a budget on 35mm like a movie either. They just had people running around, documentary style, with 16mm cameras. I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with their performance." Jim, that still does not directly address my question about why they were not able technologically to overdub something into the footage, rather than take footage from a different concert. I can imagine some of the obstacles, but can you advise as to a most likely reason ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:16:57 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: another documentary???? One of the articles in Today's Library Links talks about two documentaries WOHAM and another one": "Circle Game, is a behind-the-scenes look at the making of Travelogue, which includes the story of the master tapes nearly being destroyed in a studio fire. It's been submitted for next year's Sundance Film Festival." Does anyone know more about this? Thanks -- Paul of the Netherlands - ------------------------------------------- we will push on into that mystery, and it will push right back, and there are worse things than that -- dar williams: after all --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:12:07 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: An interesting test njc ha ha Kakki. I would (almost) turn republican for you. I was closer to the line than I would have thought. mack > Yes Mack, I also was wondering if you were just being very brave here > showing you place somewhere close to Mr. Bush LOL > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:14:48 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: civil unions, NJC In a message dated 11/19/03 12:36:49 AM Central Standard Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > if testamentary succession were more liberally implemented in argentina, > civil union would be tantamount to marriage, except of course for the thorny > adoption issue. Thanks Wally. What you wrote was very interesting and informative. The concept of civil union as you describe in Argentina sounds much more complicated than marriage. Of course, with anything new that comes up in a legal system, all avenues have to be thought out before a law is made. I'm just glad I'm not a lawyer! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:23:58 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: very lucky. I alluded to the friend that I work with, yesterday, that I told about Joni and recommended she try our Joan. The woman has been having problems with her marriage, husband, children, life in general. I had told her that she needed to get inside herself and find out exactly what she wanted and go from there. I told her Joni would help her along the way. She has a crush on me, despite knowing I play for the pink team, and lo, and behold, she showed up at the workplace last eve with 6 joni albums. Two were TTT and WTRF. I have neither so I brought them home to put them onto the computer. Looking forward to trying them out in a few minutes. Even though I see they rank low on the JMDL scale I am thinking positive for so did DED and it knocked my socks off. She also had Blue and I recommended she absorb it first. Four of the albums were in a nice little set with liner notes including DED, CMIAR, WTRF, and NRH. Is that right? The last one I am not sure about. Very lucky anyway and felt like sharing it. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:27:50 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC > the court is giving the legislature 180 days to bring state marriage laws up > to date to reflect the decision. i'm not clear on what will be the ultimate > result, but some couples have started planning June weddings. Governor Romney this morning said that the Legislature will meet and change the State Constitution to say man and woman. There is no doubt this will happen. > > of course gay marriage is not recognized by the federal government thanks to > the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, signed by then-President Bill Clinton. > A fact many of the anti-Clintons who claim they would bring about a left wing end of the world have forgotten. Interestingly, a lesbian judge voted with the minority in the decision. Jerry N.P. - Two Grey Rooms ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:13:51 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: November 19 It's the Allison Anders film which I don't think even got a look in at this year's Sundance for whatever reason... It was meant to chronicle the making of Travelogue and illustrate the relationship between Joni and Kilauren etc etc. Not sure where it's at in terms of being finished, approval, rights, distribution... But the end of WOHAM has a little clip of her singing in a vocal booth which I suspect was from this film... Much Joni Jamie Zoob x - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > - --- ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: > On November 19 the > following articles were > > published: > > 2002: "Joni Mitchell says her songs aren't > > 'disposable,' new meaning on latest album" - > > Canadian Press > > (Interview) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1017 > > This article is very timely. It deals with the "what > is art?" question, Travelogue, today's artists, the > cesspool that is today's music industry, being true > to > yourself and a few other things. Here are a few > snippets below, but does anyone know anything about > this "Circle Game" video mentioned near the end? ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:27:51 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: 40 watts succeses NJC I think the caption says it all- she's an icon- literally. Just an image to be displayed and hyped. Like a logo. Something created, not genuine. I saw part of an interview of hers (quite accidentally) and thought. Sheesh. Can't sing and can't dance, and even doesn't have a personality. Steve At 08:23 PM 11/18/2003 -0500, Bree Mcdonough wrote: >Everything is cheapened today. EVERYBODY gets a standing ovation. What >does it mean really when somebody like her gets a star? She can't >sing.. can't dance ...BUT she has great implants and pouts her lips well. > >Bree > > >> > 'Pop princess Britney Spears became the >> > youngest-ever music icon ever to be >> > honoured with a star on Hollywood's prestigious Walk >> > of Fame'. ... "The best >> > part is the fans -- the fans, like, loving you. And >> > the free clothes". >> > >> > Ah, so that's what it's all about... >> > mike in barcelona >> > NPIMH - lots of 40 watt successes... >> >>What does a person need to do to earn a star? I guess >>longevity isn't a factor. >> >>===== >>Catherine >>Toronto >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- >>We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction >> >> >> >> >>______________________________________________________________________ >>Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > >_________________________________________________________________ >Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are >always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free! >http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 9:34:25 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Movie people overdubbed sound during post-production for major movies. Since they had no budget for cameras, or sound, maybe they had no budget for post-production either? I dunno. Maybe it was cheaper to just drop in another day entirely? > From: Bobsart48@aol.com > Date: 2003/11/19 Wed AM 08:09:11 EST > To: jlamadoo@fuse.net, joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete > > Jim replied about CSN and Woodstock > "Bad cassettes. Very bad > cassettes. It wasn't "shot" with a budget on 35mm like a movie either. > They just had people running around, documentary style, with 16mm cameras. > > I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different > CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with > their performance." > > Jim, that still does not directly address my question about why they were not > able technologically to overdub something into the footage, rather than take > footage from a different concert. I can imagine some of the obstacles, but can > you advise as to a most likely reason ? > > Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:47:21 -0800 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete You stand corrected oh master of promotion. http://www.louisianajukebox.com/avwebcast.htm We are now in the 21st century with archived shows where you can see all kinds of folks like Beth Patterson and Kalafka and Jack Neilson, Judith and a few other friends of mine. Best Paz > Hi Bob, > > I wasn't slamming you for naviete. It's just my coarse humor, okay? > > In the old days, Chuck Berry plugged into an amp, the drummer was > unamplified, and the bassist had an amp. There were no boards in the early > days. I love that sound, everyone plugged into their own amp. It's much > richer than squeezing everyone onto tape. Just a recording of an electric > guitar, one instrument, looses a lot when you squeeze it through extra > electronics, onto a recording medium, then back out through extra > electronics during playback. There are better ways to record music (to me) > than to plug everyone into a board but they're less convenient. > > I think by the time Woodstock happened, they had a board. Like today, they > ran long cords up to remote speakers. I recall that the only "soundtrack" > the movie's producers had was cassettes. Bad cassettes. Very bad > cassettes. It wasn't "shot" with a budget on 35mm like a movie either. > They just had people running around, documentary style, with 16mm cameras. > > I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different > CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with > their performance. > > About Carly, yeah, I bought it on VHS for $20. She looks great and Martha's > Vineyard looks great but the sound is way, way too good for the conditions. > I guess each project takes on a life of its own, depending on what the > problems are. I'm not slamming Carly Simon either. The team got a very > professional video out of it. > > On the other hand, "Tori Amos in New York" is very natural. There's music > and then there's video. I really liked seeing Beth Patterson's performance > on "Louisanna Jukebox" (a music tv show in New Orleans) but hers are not > available on the web anymore. > > All the best, > Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:58:13 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: RE: njc Alan K Lohr? Can bqb get MORE campy??? Inquiering minds... Steve At 02:55 AM 11/19/2003 -0300, Wally Kairuz wrote: >LOL!!! bob, you're getting campier and campier all the time. it's the bad >company you keep on this list... >wally > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de >> SCJoniGuy@aol.com >> Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 11:37 p.m. >> Para: ljirvin@jmdl.com; joni@smoe.org >> Asunto: Re: njc Alan K Lohr? >> >> >> In a message dated 11/18/2003 8:40:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, >> ljirvin@jmdl.com writes: >> Alan - >> Are you out there somewhere? >> Please email me! >> Thanks, >> Les >> >> Really Les...we have this page on the JMDL: >> >> http://www.jmdl.com/dating/index.cfm >> >> A much more subtle approach. :~D >> >> Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:57:17 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: 40 watt successes NJC (this subject line needed a bit of copy-editing for God's sake! There you go! This could be Joni's next birthday present! ;-) Steve At 09:30 PM 11/18/2003 -0800, kakki wrote: >Catherine - you are cracking me up! > >> Y'mean, you could completely SUCK but you could still >> get a star if you raised the $$ to pay for it? That >> explains a few things... > >Well, I was being kind of flip about it. You do have to be nominated (by >anyone or any group) and there is certain criteria for selection. I just >checked the website and geez the price HAS gone up - to $15,000 (was $3,000 >last I heard) but that pays for the installation and lifelong maintenance of >the star. Frankly, being famous and successful does help, but hey it's an >industry town ;-) It's not strictly about great art, although several great >artists are honored. It's about achievement in film, TV, radio, music, >songwriting and recording. There are more meritorious 200 watt successes on >the walk than there are the 40 watt ones. It's actually kind of a neat >experience to walk along the sidewalks of Hollywood and have those names >glitter up at you and jog your memory, especially the ones from the early >days. > >And no, Joni does not have a star! So who is going to take the lead on >this?? ;-) > >Here's the website if you are interested: >http://www.hollywoodcoc.org/walkoffame/ >and the nomination procedures: >http://www.hollywoodcoc.org/walkoffame/nom_proc.html > >Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:12:08 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: I DID my homework! - now Aretha - now NJC I am a big fan of Aretha's early years, before she became the Queen of Soul. Her Columbia recordings are mostly her at the piano playing and singing standards. Why, or why, do they abandon playing piano for themselves?????????? They know their voices better than anyone. Jerry, a piano bar slut at heart > Roberto wrote: > >> (and I hope they >>> will all forgive me if I say that two or at most >>> three of Aretha Franklin's recordings are as much as >>> I can take at one time....) > >> >> I feel the same way, so that makes two of us. Some of >> her stuff is brilliant but I can only listen to her >> voice and style of singing for so long before it >> becomes irritating. > > Et tu, Catherine? > > Loathe as I am to disagree with my friends, please count me out of that > sentiment. I adore Aretha's soulful and emotive voice, and her impeccable > phrasing, and could listen to her every waking hour. I've never heard so much > feeling coming from a human being. I believe Aretha is something of a prophet > and that it's no coincidence that her father was a close friend of MLK. Aretha > is queen (undisputed) of soul, just as Joni is queen of mind beauty, in my > opinion...be it ever so humble. > > Perhaps your listening enjoyment would be enhanced by more selectivity in your > sequencing of songs from her oeuvre. And, for best results, I believe one > must approach her music with a measure of spiritual abandon. > > In an interview (I did a little homework, too) Joni even admits to jumping > Aretha's musical style a bit in one of her songs on WTRF: '"Ladies' Man" is > another song radio missed, and it's a song that Aretha Franklin could have > sung. In fact, there's two little catches in my vocal that are out of > admiration for her.' > > -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:18:00 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete Lama said: > I didn't make that up, about CSN. They actually used film of a different CSN concert and pasted it into the Woodstock movie. They weren't happy with their performance. > I think you're wrong, Jim. CSNY played Woodstock at night, after the sun went down. Stills wore that Peruvian poncho. It was only their second public performance. (Neil had already joined by the time they did their first concert, just a few days before Woodstock). I've never heard it said on the Lee Shore list (CSN(Y)-related) or the Rust list (Neil Young related) that the "Woodstock" footage of CSNY is from another show. (I can't remember them playing outdoors before another vast sea of people, at night, before the film was released the following year, either.) What I do know is that Neil would not allow himself to be filmed, so does not appear on-screen, and therefore, none of his songs appear in the film. "Sea Of Madness," a song of Neil's, DOES appear on the "Woodstock" soundtrack album, however. Although the song WAS performed at Woodstock, Neil pressed to have a different version, recorded at the Fillmore East, on the album. It is indeed the Fillmore East version which appears, making that the only "substitution," to the best of my knowledge. You may have heard about this Neil-substitution at one time and that has confused you. Watch the movie again. I just can't see as how the footage could have been taken from another show. "We're scared shitless, man." No vocal sweetening was done, either. "Suite: Judy Blue Eyes" proves that. :-) Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:48:26 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: very lucky. Mack, I'm very anxious to hear your thoughts on WTRF...even though I know a lot of what you like (Hall & Oates, Melissa Manchester, Gino, Candi Staton, DED) your tastes are a bit tough for me to get a bead on. Still, I think (and hope) that you're really going to dig WTRF a lot!. Also, congrats to you on recommending Joni to help your co-worker navigate her tribulations. My sisters & kids are leaving this Friday for Disney World and since I've been talking to them about Joni all along I made them a Joni travel-pack compilation where I picked one song for each of them, and added 6 "Joni travel songs" to make an even dozen tunes. Bob NP: Joni, "Amelia" (T-log) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:44:39 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC Jerry Notaro wrote: Governor Romney this morning said that the Legislature will meet and change the State Constitution to say man and woman. There is no doubt this will happen. I don't think that is a sure thing. The court gave the legislature 180 days to act. The earliest a constitutional ammendment could be ratified by the people is in 2006 (a recent Globe poll showed Mass. registered voters were 50% for and 44% against gay marriage). So there would be two years of gray area. Who knows how they will handle it. As I learned this past year, just because the highest court in the state and the majority of MA registered voters charge the legislature to enact a law doesn't mean it'll happen. sad, but true (see Clean Elections Law). Jenny Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:47:37 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC > Well I sure do hope you are right. Anyplace that is the home of the Unitarian > Universalist Church is great with me! > > Jerry > > Jerry Notaro wrote: > Governor Romney this morning said that the Legislature will meet and change > the State Constitution to say man and woman. There is no doubt this will > happen. > > I don't think that is a sure thing. The court gave the legislature 180 days > to act. The earliest a constitutional ammendment could be ratified by the > people is in 2006 (a recent Globe poll showed Mass. registered voters were 50% > for and 44% against gay marriage). So there would be two years of gray area. > Who knows how they will handle it. As I learned this past year, just because > the highest court in the state and the majority of MA registered voters charge > the legislature to enact a law doesn't mean it'll happen. sad, but true (see > Clean Elections Law). > Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:01:49 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC Could we please talk about something else? If Wally catches wind of this my swingin' singles days are over! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:12:27 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: joni and the music scene I was happy to read that Joni's actually NOT quit -- uptill now I thought that Joni's talk about quitting the scene was real, and that there was nothing new to expect -- now my hopes for one more album of new and self-penned work are up again -- perhaps even a little European tour.....: - ) anyways, I think Joni's critique of the musicbiz is correct -- compare top artists...stars...now and thirty years ago...look at this ani difranco quote: people used to make records as in a record of an event the event of people playing music in a room now everything is cross-marketing its about sunglasses and shoes or guns and drugs you choose (Ani Difranco: Fuel) The thing is -- Joni's not alone in her critique. so many of contemporary artists choose to stay independent of major labels, because they argue the majors care less about music and more . Ani Difranco, who has her own label, is the best example, but there are many more artists...Lucinda Williams, whose songwriting is simply perfect, has been known to whip big business' ass now and then. Dar WIlliams remains indie and there is a whole singer-songwriter underground of not very famous, not very 'star-like' artists who nevertheless do what they wanne do and choose to hold on to their integrity.........not everything can be bought and sold. However, Joni once was part of the circle of stars.......many of her friends were worldfamous artist and she was too, they still are....... but no longer in the center of attention.. Joan Baez had little trouble with embracing the singer-songwriter "underground" ... Dar WIlliams in the mid-nineties, the altcountrystars and a songwriter like Josh Ritter now. Joni seems to have a much more difficult time -- it's not so weird though, it must be hard to see that the today's stars are intellectually and artistically so inferior -- I mean even dopy John Lennon had substance. Or am I romantizing the 'good old days' before I was born again........? Peace: Paul of the Netherlands - ------------------------------------------- we will push on into that mystery, and it will push right back, and there are worse things than that -- dar williams: after all --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:24:45 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: Spanish names NJC Catherine wrote: Subject: RE: police raid neverland -- NJC "Spanish-speaking people name their kids Jesus. But you don't meet too many Jesuses in the WASP community, do ya?" Jesus may sound weird to the Anglo-Saxons, it sounds totally normal in Spain. But what about the names Spanish speakers give to women? Some examples: Dolores (or Lola) = PAINS Angustias = Anguishes (The name of my masseuse. Very appropriate) Inmaculada = Immaculate Concepcion (Concha or Conchi) = Conception Maria Jesus Asuncion = Assumption Purificacion Encarnacion Visitacion (I must admit, that one is more unusual) Amparo = Shelter, Sanctuary, Aid Pilar = Basin, tank or pillar, column. It can also mean a bedpost. Socorro = Help! (Again, not too common) Soledad = Loneliness Maria Auxiliadora = Auxiliary Mary ? Natividad = Nativity As for me, I never really thought about what the names really meant, but Catherine's comment got me going. Well, at least it hauled me out of my lurkdom for a while. As for the political compass thing, interesting. I scored - - 7.38 LEFT/RIGHT - - 6.41 LIBERTARIAN/AUTHORITARIAN. Bit of a pinko too, methinks. take care gill (in Madrid) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:50:33 -0800 From: Rick Subject: Re: correspondence with richardson's roundup Hi Kate, Good for you and Emil! I'm sure Joni remembers meeting you in Saskatoon. And any reminder that she gets about the List is a bonus. I love the fact that you were a part of Richardson's Roundup. In these times of cultural identities being manufactured by cynical and slick media, it's refreshing that a large part of the Canadian identity is still defined by CBC radio programmes like the Roundup, the Vinyl Cafi and Sounds Like Canada. All the best Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:34:45 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: My Top T-loggers Well Bob, sorry to say that I could not come up with 11 "good" tracks from T'log, but I would submit these as the ones that I think are the strongest: (Not in any order) 1. Be Cool 2. Refuge Of The Roads 3. The Dawntreader 4. Otis and Marlena 5. Amelia 6. You Dream Flat Tires (but still needs to swing harder than it does) 7. Slouching Towards Bethlehem - Has an "epic" quality to match its lyrical content that I think is effective 8. God Must Be A Boogie Man That's a total of about 44 minutes which is a CD's worth, but not one that I'm going to make any time soon because if I ever want to hear ANY of these songs I'll go to its original incarnation, with the possible exception of "Amelia" which really comes to life on S&L and kicks off that power trio of Amelia-Pat's Solo-Hejira. And it almost was 9 as I have an honourable mention: The Sire Of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) - would have made the cut except for that chorus, makes my finger rush for the "next track" button because I just conjure up this mental image of Nora Desmond & her toga-clad choirboys. Otherwise I like the way the arrangement swells and calms to match the intensity of Joni's vocal and she almost got this one right. Bob NP: Joni, "Trouble Child" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:57:43 EST From: Justalittlebreen@aol.com Subject: Favs and least favs Hi, all, I'm finally finding the time to read some of the digests that have been piling up, and thought I'd put my 2 drachmas in: Pre-first-album: Favorite: Tough call, but i especially Like Gift of the Magi and Melody In Your Name Less Favorite: The Coke Commercial Song/Ballerina Valerie, i suppose -- silly tossoffs Song To A Seagull: Most Favorite - Marcie, Pirates of Penance (surprised so many don't like the latter) Less Favorite - Night in the City Clouds: Most Favorite - I Don't Know Where I Stand Less Favorite - didn't used to like Tin Angel, but I like it better now Ladies Of The Canyon: Most Favorite - Conversation Less Favorite - Circle Game Blue: Most Favorite - The Last Time I Saw Richard, River, Case Less Favorite - All I Want For The Roses: Most Favorite - Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire Less Favorite - You Turn Me On, I'm an I-Pod Court & Spark: Most Favorite - 9-way-tie: everything else Less Favorite - Free Man, and Raised Miles of Aisles: Most Favorite - Jericho!!! Less Favorite - none Hissing Of Summer Lawns: Most Favorite - Very tough call -- album is all but flawless. I love Jungle Line for its audacity (I'm working on a very different arrangement of it), and I like the Edith/Don't Interrupt/Shades of Scarlett Conquering run Less Favorite - Shadows and Light, I suppose -- a little overwrought Hejira: Most Favorite - Strange Boy, with an 8-way-tie for the others Least Favorite - none Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: Most Favorite - Overture--Cotton Ave, Offnight Backstreet, The Silky Veils of Ardor Least Favorite - 10th world Mingus (the 'raps' don't count): Most Favorite - The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Less Favorite - Sweet Sucker Dance Shadows & Light: Most Favorite - Woodstock -- best of the four "official" versions of the song Less Favorite - Shadows and Light (again) Wild Things Run Fast: Most Favorite - Chinese Cafe, Moon at the Window, and Love Less Favorite - none Dog Eat Dog: Most Favorite - Ethiopia, Impossible Dreamer Less Favorite - Fiction Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm: Most Favorite - Dancin' Clown and Snakes and Ladders Less Favorite - Reoccurring Dream Night Ride Home: Most Favorite - Two Grey Rooms, Only Joy In Town Less Favorite - Slouching Toward zzzzzzzzzz (although Travelogue version at least keeps me awake) Turbulent Indigo: Most Favorite - Yvette In English, and The Sire of Sorrow Less Favorite - Borderline. Joni needs new friends, and she needs to stop harping -- it's her least attractive song mode. Taming The Tiger: Most Favorite - Facelift, Man From Mars, and the title song Least Favorite - Crazy Cries Both Sides Now: Most Favorite - You've Changed, And Case Less Favorite - none Travelogue - I tend to listen to all but the last two cuts (Borderline and Circle Game). That way I get to end the album with her delightfully warm and relaxed version of Richard. I also like her ratpackish delivery on Be Cool, and other favs are Trouble Child for the appropriately woozy sounding instrumentals and Just Like This Train, again for Joni's relaxed, mature, smiling ren dition. For the Roses is a little ponderous, but I still like it. Oh, speaking of Train, I assume everyone noticed that in the Travelogue version, she alternates the opening "duh-duh-duh-duh...DUH, duh-DUH, duh-DUH, duh-DUH" with "doo-WAH-doo's", as she did when she was performing it in '96 on the various shows to promote Hits and Misses. best to all, justalittlebreen walt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:22:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Spanish names NJC there's a great piece about these names in nancy mitford's "the pursuit of love". anyway, most of the names you mentioned are pre-franco. they come from different denominations of the virgin mary (la virgen de los dolores; asuncion: the ascent of mary into the kingdom of heaven; maria auxiliadora: comforting mary, etc.). in argentina, these names used to be common among spanish descendants. some of them became fashionable again in the 80's when almodovar movies were first shown here! sometimes when they are combined with italian last names they are hilarious. for example, del' orto, means "from the orchard" in italian. it's kind of usual as a last name. but "orto" in argentine slang means "ass". well, i know a woman whose name is dolores del' orto, which literally translates into "pain in the ass". you know, "will ms. pain in the ass please stand up?" imagine such combinations as angustias del' orto (anxious ass), soledad del' orto (lonely ass), inmaculada del' orto (unblemished ass), amparo del' orto (sheltered ass) etc. the sky is limit. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Gillian > Apter > Enviado el: Miercoles, 19 de Noviembre de 2003 01:25 p.m. > Para: anima_rising@yahoo.ca; joni list > Asunto: Spanish names NJC > > > Catherine wrote: Subject: RE: police raid neverland -- NJC > > "Spanish-speaking people name their kids Jesus. But you don't > meet too many > Jesuses in the WASP community, do > ya?" > > Jesus may sound weird to the Anglo-Saxons, it sounds totally > normal in Spain. > But what about the names Spanish speakers give to women? Some examples: > > Dolores (or Lola) = PAINS > Angustias = Anguishes (The name of my masseuse. Very appropriate) > Inmaculada = Immaculate > Concepcion (Concha or Conchi) = Conception > Maria Jesus > Asuncion = Assumption > Purificacion > Encarnacion > Visitacion (I must admit, that one is more unusual) > Amparo = Shelter, Sanctuary, Aid > Pilar = Basin, tank or pillar, column. It can also mean a bedpost. > Socorro = Help! (Again, not too common) > Soledad = Loneliness > Maria Auxiliadora = Auxiliary Mary ? > Natividad = Nativity > > As for me, I never really thought about what the names really meant, but > Catherine's comment got me going. Well, at least it hauled me out of my > lurkdom for a while. > > As for the political compass thing, interesting. I scored > > - 7.38 LEFT/RIGHT > - 6.41 LIBERTARIAN/AUTHORITARIAN. Bit of a pinko too, methinks. > > take care > > gill (in Madrid) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:36:57 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? Yes they are stellar - but aren't you asking Joni to paint a starry night again? Joni is the restless innovator - in asking her to record Travelogue with a small jazz combo I think she has already been there, done that, from the Jaco stuff up to the '98 band. Also most of Joni's compositions don't lend themselves to the beautiful Gershwin like treatment. I was listening to "Gershwin's World" this weekend and as much as I love it I prefer Travelogue. I was listening as the critic and using Travelogue as a touchstone. "Gershwin's World" struck me as too pretty, undramatic, no restless edges, no unexpected turns and not as musically adventurous. Its way, way good but it sounds 'safe' to me. I mean you can't do justice to Sire of Sorrow by treating it like The Man I Love. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:26 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Woodstock headliners, njc > Beginning to end I was there...lots of people missed jimi as they went > home before he played...yes he closed the show but for a 3 day festival > with so many incredible acts no one was considered a headliner... > > csny-...ummm...i can't recall details after all these years except that > they were good (I thought)... Four part harmony you know ... You just > didn't hear stuff like that much... > > my favs were richie havens & joan baez the first night (we held up > lighters for the first time & it was soo cool!)... That is why I thought it was so cool for Joan, whom I remember was the only one able to completely quiet the Woodstock crowd, to open Live Aid in 1985. BTW, I taped the whole Live Aid from FM Radio and it still sounds great. I've never seen it offered as a bootleg. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:26:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC oh but the trousseau is almost ready, bob! can we do it in the little chapel in the mall next to the prudential building? wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Murphycopy@aol.com > Enviado el: Miircoles, 19 de Noviembre de 2003 01:02 p.m. > Para: Jerry Notaro; jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com; kate@katebennett.com; > joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... > NJC > > > Could we please talk about something else? If Wally catches wind > of this my swingin' singles days are over! > > --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #574 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)