From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #571 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 571 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: An interesting test njc ["kakki" ] Re: An interesting test njc ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [dsk ] Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [dsk ] Re: An interesting test njc [Catherine McKay ] Yes, but is it art? njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: An interesting test njc ["mack watson-bush" ] cover version njc ["mack watson-bush" ] RE: An interesting test njc ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete [Bobsart48@aol.com] 40 watts succeses NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Fw: An interesting test njc (for AOL users) [Emiliano ] Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC [Jenny Go] Re: 40 watts succeses NJC ["TheWizardOfIs" ] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["Kate Bennett" <] Re: Art for Art's Sake... ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L ["Kate Bennett" ] The Song Writers Tour NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc [Steve Polifka ] Re: The Song Writers Tour NJC [Jerry Notaro ] RE: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel ["Wally Kairuz" Subject: Re: An interesting test njc Kate wrote: > Well didn't someone call you the ayn rand of the list kakki? Lol... Yes, which I took as quite a compliment ;-) but only because she is such a brilliant writer and a champion of the individual and libertarian thought. I don't agree with her philosophy on a few other significant points, however! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:43:15 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: An interesting test njc Economic Left/Right: -9.88 Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.03 No apologies mike in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:56:24 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel Wally Kairuz wrote: > > i would so much like to read the poem in english. if i remember well, > there's a line that says "paris, una ciudad tan anclada en si misma", which > would loosely translate into "paris, a city so settled in its ways." i've > always wondered if the album that the narrator is so eagerly waiting to get > in paris may be blue. Timewise it's a possibility, but I can't tell from reading this version, Wally. It would be interesting somehow sometime to read your full translation. So to keep all the details in one message: The following is from "A Manual for Manuel" by Julio Cortazar, published in Argentina in 1973 as "Libro de Manuel", translated from the Spanish by Gregory Rabassa, English translation copyright 1978, pages 356-358. I've typed it out exactly as it's printed, except for these things that I can't do in this plain text message: anything between ** and ** is italicized, the name Falu has an accent over the u, Andres has an accent over the e, Gomez has an accent over the o, and Cortazar has an accent over the first a. I typed out what comes after the end of the poem (which really does end with a comma) only because I love the listing of women, that includes Joni, and the phrase, "their laws on my body." I don't know exactly what that means, but I like it anyway. When the snails parade and leave a trail that sketches out the lettuce taste changing its drivel of delight into the perfume of the full moon I am the one who listens in Paris to Joni Mitchell sing the one who between two smokes felt time go by for Pichuco and Robert Firpo My grandmother talking to me in a garden in Banfield, a sleepy suburb of Buenos Aires, **"Snail, snail let the sun shine on your tail."** Maybe that's why on this suburban night there are snails, Joni Mitchell, American girl, who sings between two drinks, between a Falu and a Pedro Maffia (I haven't got any more time and I don't care for fads, I mix Jelly Roll Morton and Gardel and Stockhausen, blessed be the Lamb) What a strange thing being Argentine on this night, knowing I'm going to an appointment with no one, with a woman who belongs to someone else, with someone who spoke to me in the dark, that I'll arrive soon for what What a strange thing being Argentine on this night, the voice of Joni Mitchell between a Falu and a Pedro Maffia, a cocktail of memory, **rare blend of Musetta and Mimi,** to your health, Delfino, childhood comrade, being Argentine in a Paris suburb **"Snail, snail, let the sun shine on your tail."** Pichuco's concertina, Joni Mitchell, Maurice Fanon, girl, **me souvenir de toi, de ta loi sur mon corps,** being Argentine, walking to an appointment with whom and for what reason, such a strange thing without renouncing Joni Mitchell being Argentine in this black stain, Fritz Lang, I am Andres, just tell me, that house behind the trees, there certainly, the cedars and the silence, everything falls together, but then everything begins to be nothing again, knowing that I will come to an appointment with a woman who belongs to someone else, what a strange thing ("Someone wants to speak to you," a waiter in a white jacket, the gesture pointing to the room in the dark)-- I'm coming, my friend, wait till Joni Mitchell finishes, till Atahualpa's silent, I'm getting there, open, Ludmilla, they're waiting for me in a dark room. it's a Cuban, the waiter said, he has something to tell you. I dreamed all that, of course, and suddenly I remember precisely on arriving here, the black stain opens, I see a face, I hear a voice, everything that I dreamed Fritz Lang I remember, like a sheet that's torn in half that garden with cedars in the shadows I remember without surprise, the surprising thing is almost not having recognized it before, from the beginning, on waking up, so clear and obvious and even beautiful to remember it while I approach the door of the chalet and raise my hand so they won't kill me without at least knowing who I am and that I'm not coming to sell them out, what a strange thing being Argentine in this garden and at this hour, plunged into madness and remembering Ludmilla and Francine and Joni Mitchell, their laws on my body, women and voices and bodies and books while I raise my arms so they'll see me easily, Gomez or Lucien Verneuil or maybe Marcos crouching behind the windows, ... Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:01:41 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel Catherine McKay wrote: > > > "I don't know," Andres said, "it might be that way > > or the reverse but it > > will be *both things, always. ..."* > > The section in the last paragraph, that I marked > between **s, sounds just a wee bit like "Both Sides > Now", doesn't it? It does! Not only sounds similar but it's the same idea. I wonder if it was the author or the translator who included that subtle bit of Joni-flavor. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:05 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: An interesting test njc --- Kate Bennett wrote: > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > I'm in the mandela/dalai lama/gandi quadrant...no > surprise there > Economic Left/Right: -6.25 > Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23 I'm in the same quadrant, Kate. No surprises there. Economic Left/Right: -6.50 Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.49 Once again, I had some trouble answering some of the questions, because I wanted to qualify them (as in, "well that depends on....") ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Yes, but is it art? njc One of my favourite morning things is to check the "Social Studies" section of "Facts and arguments" in the Globe and Mail. There's always something, um, interesting to read there. From today's issue: "Last week, a British performance artist immersed himself in a bath of baked beans, with french fries up his nose and sausages around his head. Mark McGowan, 37, said he would spend 100 hours wallowing like this in the window of a London art gallery to support the traditional greasy British meal." http://www.globeandmail.com/ Tuesday, Nov. 18/03 -> "Facts and arguments" ->"Social Studies" ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:58:24 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: An interesting test njc I was with the gandhi crowd as well. Economic Left/Right 4.50 Libertarian/Authoritarian 3.33 mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:21:53 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: cover version njc On the drive home from work scanning radio stations as per usual, attempting to find something that I can stand. Rarely it is fruitful. Heard a familiar tune, a good one. It was 'the boys of summer.' Always one of my favorite tunes by Henley, a favorite tune in general. His version is so wistful, the look back, the longing for days gone by; every word he sings tells the story of how he feels, the pain, the sadness, the glory, the excitement, the love. The version I heard this morning was by someone else. Absolute rubbish, in my opinion. No emotion, just marginal singing with nothing else there. I am told, often, that I need to branch out and 'try' todays music. Do so on occasion but have yet to hear even one tune by todays 'artists' that is anything worth listening to. Will keep trying. There has to be someone that is putting out worthy music but where is it? Very sad for me. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:35:13 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: An interesting test njc Economic Left/Right -8.00 Libertarian/Authoritarian -8.21 Hmmmm. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:44:19 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc Covers Bob said: I think that if a musician truly just wants to create music for its own sake they wouldn't record it, package it, market it and sell it Fiction Bob said: I think when a recording artist makes a record they definitely want it to be enjoyed because guess what?...THEY ARE MAKING A COMMERCIAL COMMODITY FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC. This is a very different thing from a unique painting/sculpture/photograph/dance etc. that is a unique entity created by an artist as a means of expression I say: Is art still art after you sell or reproduce it? Believe me, painters, sculptors, and photographers want to sell their work. Photographers, like musicans reproduce their work to sell to more than one person (though they may limit the number of prints, so they do not devalue the work). Of course there is a vast sea of recording artists and musicians who write and record soley for commerical purposes. But there are also many who create music as a means of expression, who strive to create something unique and important. So if a composition is subsequently recorded and duplicated on CD does this mean that what was once art at the moment of creation, is no longer? Is a Van Gogh that ends up on a greeting card no longer art? How do artists make a living in a society that does not value art? Few people commission musical compositions or sponsor musicians anymore. Is your art compromised when you try to make a buck at it? I don't have the answer, but I think Hejira and Hissing are works of art. The fact that they are available to the masses does not lessen their contribution to music, popular or otherwise. the end. jenny Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:53:15 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L > Now Lama- > Bob, I hope I can break this to you gently. > > 1. > I think it was Gerald/Jerry Notaro who dissected S&L long ago. He has a > full surround setup (maybe with external digital to analog converters?) > which gives him vastly superior resolution if I recall. I think he had a > big screen too. Whom ever it was spoke at length about half-matching lip > synching through much of S&L, and that some tracks match *exact*ly. You are right, Jim. I do have a a pretty high tech set up. And it wasn't until I watched the dvd that I noticed it. But it more than the audio quality that made me think it was dubbed. The video editing also made me suspicious. The close ups become mid and long shots during the song, and if you zoom in to the few shots where you can see Joni sing, the video and audio is definitely out of synch. > > 2. > To answer your question, Bob, I'll ask you a question. Have you ever seen > the footage of CSN at Woodstock in the film "WOODSTOCK"? If you've seen the > footage, you weren't watching their performance at WOODSTOCK, if I recall > correctly. They were the headliners but they uhmmm.... that is, that > particular night they... well... let's just say that David Geffen insisted > that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. That or > release the film without CSN. I know this sounds like I'm trolling for an > argument so I'll ask for someone to back me up on this. Someone younger > than myself, with a superior memory. (Kakki?) > Absolutely correct. Believe me, what ended up on screen was not what we heard. They were flatter than piss on a platter live at Woodstock. That may be the one memory I have retained. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:58:13 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Overdubbing, and Ignorance v Naivete I asked, re the S&L video >"Frankly, I doubt that there were any whole >songs overdubbed - is it common to overdub >concert gaffs ?" And Lama replied, "gently" "To answer your question, Bob, I'll ask you a question. Have you ever seen the footage of CSN at Woodstock in the film "WOODSTOCK"? If you've seen the footage, you weren't watching their performance at WOODSTOCK, if I recall correctly. They were the headliners but they uhmmm.... that is, that particular night they... well... let's just say that David Geffen insisted that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. " Well, I readily admit to ignorance about recording techniques, as well as how commonly the various ones are applied. As to naivete, I can imagine any number of possibilities, some more foolish than others (tho perhaps the Milly Vanilly thingy woke me to the full range of possibilities). However, I feel that your comment above goes to bolster my case - if all CSN had to do was re-record it in the studio, why didn't they do that ? (Perhaps overdubbing techniques have gotten much better over the last 35 years). Frankly, I think the sound on that film is pretty bad, anyway, so I have not watched / listened to it very often - tho I once probably owned the record. A better example was your Carly Simon one, where the female voices come out of the male backup singers. Did that really happen ? By the way, Joni wouldn't have needed that much touching up in her concert performances, if she put her mind to it (as she might have, knowing the Santa Barbara gig was a one time only recording gig). Did you often get to hear her in concert on or before 1980 ? By the way, Kate - was Miles of Aisles recorded there, too ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:11:54 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: 40 watts succeses NJC According to Yahoo! 'Pop princess Britney Spears became the youngest-ever music icon ever to be honoured with a star on Hollywood's prestigious Walk of Fame'. ... "The best part is the fans -- the fans, like, loving you. And the free clothes". Ah, so that's what it's all about... mike in barcelona NPIMH - lots of 40 watt successes... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:12:07 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: An interesting test njc (for AOL users) Wally says: did you do the iconochasms quiz? you are in for a few surprises!!! link is on the bar on the left margin. wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate > > Bennett > > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 03:32 a.m. > > Para: Joni@Smoe. Org > > Asunto: An interesting test njc > > > > > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > > > I'm in the mandela/dalai lama/gandi quadrant...no surprise there > > Economic Left/Right: -6.25 > > Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:12:48 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: An interesting test njc (for AOL users) Wally says: gee! i'm a frigging pinko! Economic Left/Right: -7.00 Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.15 very close to you on the number line, kate! wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate > > Bennett > > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 03:32 a.m. > > Para: Joni@Smoe. Org > > Asunto: An interesting test njc > > > > > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > > > I'm in the mandela/dalai lama/gandi quadrant...no surprise there > > Economic Left/Right: -6.25 > > Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:39:22 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: An interesting test njc (for AOL users) Mine showed me to be Libertarian Left. No surprise there. But very happy my dot on the graph landed next to Gandhi's. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:03:44 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: correspondence with richardson's roundup > Hi Kathy... I hope you were able to hear your letter read on the air. > Just so you know, you had us in tears the first time we read it... > thanks! We have a CD for you. If you recall, Bill mentioned we'd have > prizes for all the letters that went to air. It's kind of a "Best-Of" > from the CBC Radio Orchestra. If you could send me your mailing > address, I'll send that off ASAP. And your suggestion was taken. > Thanks to you and a few others, we're just about ready to send Joni a > rather large stack of letters, as well as a CD copy of the show. > Apparently she was able to hear some of the show live. Yay! > > Thanks again, > Kelly Nakatsuka > Richardson's Roundup Hi Kelly, Emil and I both heard my letter on the air; that was kind of cute -- the look of surprise on his face, because he wasn't expecting it. Excellent news that you are forwarding the letters and that Joni heard some of the show. I think she knows how much she is loved and admired around the world, but it never hurts to hear it, no matter how often. It doesn't matter who you are. I am going to forward your email to the Joni Mitchell Discussion List, assuming I have your permission, as we Joniphiles are always hungry for all and anything to do with her and everyone will be glad to know she is receiving the tributes. Thank you for the CD, and for your appreciation of my letter. I do hope Bill gets to meet and interview Joni sometime. Maybe he can do what Emil never got the chance to: "get to know each other better" than you do during a short chat in a crowded gallery. Love the show, Kate - -- http://xoetc.antville.org who does she think she is? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:07:43 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: 40 watts succeses NJC I saw a Tee shirt on a guy a few years ago that said: Spear Britney Steve At 03:11 PM 11/18/2003 +0100, mike pritchard wrote: >According to Yahoo! >'Pop princess Britney Spears became the youngest-ever music icon ever to be >honoured with a star on Hollywood's prestigious Walk of Fame'. ... "The best >part is the fans -- the fans, like, loving you. And the free clothes". > >Ah, so that's what it's all about... >mike in barcelona >NPIMH - lots of 40 watt successes... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:25:15 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc Jenny writes: > Fiction Bob said: > I think when a recording artist makes a record they definitely want it to be enjoyed because guess what?...THEY ARE MAKING A COMMERCIAL COMMODITY FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC. This is a very different thing from a unique painting/sculpture/photograph/dance etc. that is a unique entity created by an artist as > a means of expression I did not write this. Was it Bobsart? I would never waste my time trying to define art! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:30:47 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc Oops! Sorry! You know it's hard enough with more than one Bob, but then you and the covers king have to go and have same first two letters in your last name. It was in fact Bob Muller who wrote BOTH statements from two different email addresses, which was too much for my feeble mind to grasp before the caffeine had kicked in. xo Jen Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: Jenny writes: > Fiction Bob said: > I think when a recording artist makes a record they definitely want it to be enjoyed because guess what?...THEY ARE MAKING A COMMERCIAL COMMODITY FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC. This is a very different thing from a unique painting/sculpture/photograph/dance etc. that is a unique entity created by an artist as > a means of expression I did not write this. Was it Bobsart? I would never waste my time trying to define art! - --Bob Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:40:12 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc Jenny writes: > You know it's hard enough with more than one Bob, but then you and the covers king have to go and have same first two > letters in your last name. Okay. It has been suggested that I change my list name because of the surplus of Bobs. I am torn between "Troy" and "Smurf" (which Maggie says should be "Smurph"). I will decide soon. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: this just in: Mass. Court Strikes Down Gay-Marriage Ban ... NJC BOSTON - Massachusetts' highest court ruled Tuesday that same-sex couples are legally entitled to wed under the state constitution, but stopped short of allowing marriage licenses to be issued to the couples who challenged the law. The Supreme Judicial Court's 4-3 ruling ordered the Legislature to come up with a solution within 180 days. The ruling closely matches the 1999 Vermont Supreme Court decision, which led to its Legislature's approval in 2000 of civil unions that give couples many of the same benefits of marriage. "Marriage is a vital social institution. The exclusive commitment of two individuals to each other nurtures love and mutual support. It brings stability to our society," Chief Justice Margaret Marshall wrote in the long-awaited ruling. "For those who choose to marry, and for their children, marriage provides an abundance of legal, financial and social benefits. In return, it imposes weighty legal, financial, and social obligations." While a victory for gay rights advocates, the decision fell short of what the seven couples who sued the state had hoped to receive: the right to marry their longtime companion. The Massachusetts question will now return to the Legislature, which already is considering a constitutional amendment that would legally define a marriage as a union between one man and one woman. The state's powerful Speaker of the House, Tom Finneran of Boston, has endorsed this proposal. Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:59:22 -0000 From: "TheWizardOfIs" Subject: Re: 40 watts succeses NJC - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Polifka" To: "mike pritchard" ; "list" Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 3:07 PM Subject: Re: 40 watts succeses NJC > I saw a Tee shirt on a guy a few years ago that said: > > Spear > Britney Once saw Alice Cooper performing on tv over here wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the caption "Britney wants me". And, on the back, "Dead". AMO ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:10:12 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: cover version njc Mack bemoaned: "There has to be someone that is putting out worthy music but where is it?" Well it sure as shootin' ain't on commercial radio, Mack. You can bet on that. I gave up on that a LONG time ago. Of course that doesn't mean there's nothing new worth hearing, far from it! 2003 has been a banner year for new & great releases, but you're not going to hear Death Cab For Cutie, Ani Difranco, Rickie Lee, Nada Surf on your basic Clear Channel monster. Some incredible comebacks too from folks I'd written off long ago like Fleetwood Mac and (from what I've heard) Al Green! Way cool. Sadly you've got to wheel & deal & trade & burn to keep up unless you're wealthy which I am definitely not. And then you've got the XM option which is also pretty phenomenal, I don't have it but I get to listen to the system in the gym, and when I'm there by myself I try and find the really eclectic stations. As for "Boys Of Summer", you're right on about Henley's version, back in those days I DID listen to the radio & it was one of the few things I could tolerate. "Out on the road today I saw a Dead Head sticker on a Cadillac"...great line in a song full of them, and it had that infectious driving melodic flow. Thanks for conjuring up a good memory. Bob NP: Eric Clapton, "Give Me Strength" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:35:10 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc Murphy said: "I did not write this. Was it Bobsart? I would never waste my time trying to define art!" Actually Jenny, I said BOTH of those statements you referenced. The JMDL is my favorite waste of time. :~) And I certainly wasn't trying to define art either - yikes. Bob NP: William Clarke, "Cash Money" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:16:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: S&L video > Can you tell us something about the bowl where this was filmed ? Bobsart < the santa barbara bowl is an outside ampetheatre....about 4500 seats...its a bit like the greek in los angeles its a bit like that...there is a stage & then a couple of rows of seats in front (the pit), then the lawn which mostly has chairs but sometimes is free standing (mosh pit for some acts!)...then the seats go up the hillside from there where you have a wonderful view of the city & ocean...a magical place for summer concerts that go from daylight to sundown to night & when there is a full moon- wow!) it has recently undergone remodling which has totally transformed some of the areas (restrooms, concession stands, backstage) from really funky to quite glitzy... .in the early days if you were broke you used to be able to climb the hillsides & watch the show from outside but that is no longer an option (i remember seeing dave mason & someone else that way)... originally owned by the county, it was where they held annual fiesta events (with horses & riders) which is a celebration of 'old spanish days' , a weeklong celebration that many locals leave town for as its a big tourist draw... it has always been a great concert venue but about 10 years ago or so it was falling to disrepair so a nonprofit org took over & it remains the main place for concerts in our town with a wide range of acts that play there...they try & cater to all genres & age groups the bowl has spoiled me for wanting to go to big cities to see a show...especially in big arenas...unfortunately not all acts can play here as its relatively small so the venue can't afford the price...i am still waiting for the day bruce from nj plays here! please let him know rosie! it really is a georgeous venue that performers love to play... probably more than you needed to know! do i sound like a tourist guide? lol....here is the website if you want more info http://www.sbbowl.com/ miles of aisles wasn't recorded here ... not sure where that one was done... btw my biggest heartache was NOT seeing this show (s&l)...as i'd just had a baby...but i did see both of the bob marley shows (the second one was filmed at the bowl too & is on video which i have never seen)...one at about 81/2 months pregnant & the other with baby boy on dad's shoulders watching the show- he was not even a year old but remembers the show! (i wonder if he's in the film?) okay enough rambling for today... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:23:03 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) I love t'log too david...i just don't always speak up cuz I feel like a broken recor..er scratched cd! Lol... I love the soundtrack quality of it...turn off the lights, stoke the fireplace, pour some red wine & go on a wonderful journey...that's the way to listen to it... >I just wish others could see the beauty of the art itself before casting judgment - art is not necessarily meant to be liked or even enjoyed, but appreciated as the unique vision of the artist.< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:40:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... Putting aside those artists whose #1 priority it is to have a hit record & be a superstar & putting aside the record company influence who definitely are only in it for the profit, I would say that the majority of artists are probably recording their work for pure art's sake...& that often the songs are written for themselves & nobody else...they do hope the record sells because then they get to make more or maybe make a living at doing what they love to do...but as a songwriter I can tell you that just writing the song is not enough...the creative process must include performing (if someone is a performer) & recording because othewise it feels like a project stillborn...it is hard to put into words what is purely an emotional drive to write, record, release but that is the best I can do for now... >Yeah, I know it's all sort of in the eye of the beholder, but still, I think that if a musician truly just wants to create music for its own sake they wouldn't record it, package it, market it and sell it. < ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:45:50 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L >Have you ever seen the footage of CSN at Woodstock in the film "WOODSTOCK"? If you've seen the footage, you weren't watching their performance at WOODSTOCK, if I recall correctly. They were the headliners but they uhmmm.... that is, that particular night they... well... let's just say that David Geffen insisted that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. < I never knew that they didn't use the woodstock footage for CSN...i haven't seen that film in decades...but having attended woodstock I do remember that there were no headliners...especially CSN who were kind of the new kids on the block at the time...so was Santana...of course after woodstock everything changed for both these bands... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:58:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The Song Writers Tour NJC Thanks for the report brian, I am soo sad they did not come to my town & it was too far midweek to drive 3 hrs north up & then home to see them...well I've seen them all on their own so that is some consolation...but oh I love in-the-round & I love all those songwriters...& I LOVE the babysitter song! Some other reviewer in some other venue said dar stole the show with that song...i agree with you about the song february though...stellar song... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:58:30 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... njc Oh --Bob! I liked it better when your name was *bqb* !!! Hugs, you little blue devil! Steve At 10:40 AM 11/18/2003 -0500, Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >Jenny writes: > >> You know it's hard enough with more than one Bob, but then you and the covers king have to go and have same first two >> letters in your last name. > >Okay. It has been suggested that I change my list name because of the surplus of Bobs. I am torn between "Troy" and "Smurf" (which Maggie says should be "Smurph"). I will decide soon. > >--Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:38:19 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: The Song Writers Tour NJC At 02:53 AM 11/18/2003 -0500, BRIANASYMES@aol.com wrote: >Dar Williams you can take the girl out of Cambridge but she still dresses >like the women at Radcliffe Thanks for the fashion report, Brian. BTW Dar graduated from Wesleyan and would usually be found in more Portland-like attire (jeans and Birks with heavy wool socks) but for this tour the women (seemingly except Mary Chapin) have spent much of their free time shopping for clothes and are wearing new and fancy things at each show. I managed to catch the Seattle show on Sunday night in the exquisite McCaw Hall and the whole evening was utter perfection. Witnessing that much talent on one stage is an incredible experience. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:39:40 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The Song Writers Tour NJC Dar's roommate from college was in the audience the night I saw it. She told the story of her room mate approaching a singer in Boston and playing a tape of Dar's to see if she could help her in any way. The singer said she could open for her next performance if she was available, which Dar did. The singer? --- an unknown Patty Griffin! Jerry > At 02:53 AM 11/18/2003 -0500, BRIANASYMES@aol.com wrote: >> Dar Williams you can take the girl out of Cambridge but she still dresses >> like the women at Radcliffe > > Thanks for the fashion report, Brian. BTW Dar graduated from Wesleyan and > would usually be found in more Portland-like attire (jeans and Birks with > heavy wool socks) but for this tour the women (seemingly except Mary > Chapin) have spent much of their free time shopping for clothes and are > wearing new and fancy things at each show. > > I managed to catch the Seattle show on Sunday night in the exquisite McCaw > Hall and the whole evening was utter perfection. Witnessing that much > talent on one stage is an incredible experience. > > Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:07:28 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) Well we obviously have different definitions of art. But I bet if Joni were asked, making music that others enjoy is not her primary motive. Of course I enjoy music that challenges me hence my love of Joni. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:55:06 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: police raid neverland -- NJC In case you haven't heard yet, this just in: Police Search Michael Jackson's Ranch Nov 18, 1:22 PM (ET) LOS OLIVOS, Calif. (AP) - Investigators conducting a criminal probe swarmed Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch on Tuesday, a sheriff's spokesman said. The purpose of the search was not disclosed. Authorities from the Santa Barbara County sheriff's and district attorney's offices served a warrant about 8:30 a.m. as part of an "ongoing criminal investigation," Sgt. Chris Pappas said in a recorded statement on a media information line. The district attorney's office had no comment, said legal secretary Debbie Popp. It was not known whether Jackson or his children were at the Santa Ynez Valley property, which has its own zoo and amusement park with bumper cars, a merry-go-round and Ferris wheel. Nearly 10 years have passed since the 45-year-old singing superstar faced a child-molestation investigation in a case that never resulted in criminal charges. The singer who had international hits with the albums "Thriller" (1982), "Bad" (1987) and "Dangerous" (1991), saw his career begin to collapse in 1993 amid allegations he molested a boy. Jackson maintained his innocence, and charges were never filed. He reportedly paid a multimillion-dollar settlement. Jackson is also connected to Hollywood private eye Anthony Pellicano, who has begun serving federal prison time for possessing illegal explosives, and is being investigated about whether he secretly taped conversations of celebrities and their lawyers. Pellicano, 59, reportedly worked for Jackson while the singer was under investigation for child molestation in the early 1990s. As the raid was under way, Court TV reported that the warrant was tied to allegations brought by a 12-year-old boy. That could not immediately be confirmed by The Associated Press. Jackson's spokesman, Stuart Backerman, did not answer his cell phone and did not immediately return messages Tuesday. In a television documentary broadcast on ABC earlier this year, Jackson said he had slept in a bed with many children. "When you say bed you're thinking sexual," the singer said. "It's not sexual, we're going to sleep. I tuck them in. ... It's very charming, it's very sweet." The search came on the same day Epic Records released "Number Ones," a greatest hits collection featuring Jackson's new single, "One More Chance." On Nov. 26, CBS is scheduled to air a Jackson special consisting mainly of old concert footage. Jackson has three children, and caused an international uproar last year when he displayed his baby, Prince Michael II, to fans by dangling him briefly from a fourth-floor balcony in Germany, where he had gone to accept an award. Jackson called the incident a "terrible mistake," and Berlin authorities said the actions were not punishable. Not much is known about Prince Michael II, whose mother has not been identified. The singer's 6-year-old son, Prince Michael I, and 5-year-old daughter, Paris, were born during his marriage to Debbie Rowe, his plastic surgeon's nurse, which ended in 1999. He was also married to Lisa Marie Presley, Elvis's daughter, between 1994 and 1996. Jackson routinely keeps the children's heads covered with cloth while escorting them in public - and he usually sports a surgical mask himself when out and about. He has said he wants to protect them from the public eye. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:11:03 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) > because I don't think of a record or a cd as "art" > and I think when a recording artist> A record is not art but it is recorded by a recording artist? Huh? peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:21:54 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI.. CDing > Weeding sounds good Paz.. > > Basically, I have access to duplicating towers and printers at work, so that > side of things I can do at minimal cost and bother. Posting to loads of > people will actually cost me the most. So, I'll copy/print up the necessary > number of CDs. Then send to say, two or three people. > > Anyone who hasn't already let me know want a copy? > > Martin. in London. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Paz > To: Martin Giles > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 3:58 AM > Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI... then some Stryngs news > > > > I would say it would be better for you to weed it. Just offer it up to as > > many as you are willing to send it out to (usually 3) and then 3 re offer > to > > the list. It goes pretty well that way and does not put a strain on anyone > > person. Whatever I can do to help. > > > > Thanks for the news. > > > > Best > > > > Paz > > > > > > > > > Hi Paz > > > > > > I've edited the UK Joni Birthday Party concert and it boils down to a > double > > > CD package. It is a recording from a mic on a table in the middle of the > > > room, and it turns out that the mic was beginning to die at the time. > Having > > > said that, it's a good balance, and not bad audio quality. It's all > slickly > > > edited :) to make a continous concert listening experience, and features > a > > > lot of great renditions of Joni's songs performed in arrangements > varying > > > from piano and voice, to a full band including two percussionists. > > > > > > I'm just wondering about how to go about distributing. I guess I'll > start by > > > taking 'orders' and then see where to go after that. > > > > > > Thanks for the offer of a studio Paz - it's beginning to look like > Phoenix > > > Sound where we did 'The Thrill' may not be in existance much longer. > It's > > > being threatened by a development plan, and may be bulldozed! Isn't > progress > > > a wonderful thing :( We'll have to see how it goes next year with our > > > respective careers - Strings is trying for a job in psychiatry. Chris is > > > involved in a project which may see him working for a new company in the > new > > > year. My company is in the process of making big changes which may build > us > > > in a big way - or possibly will bring the whole thing around our ears! > > > Here's hoping for the former... > > > > > > Strings has had to come back to England for a few weeks, but will soon > be > > > off to Australia again. She'll be back in February whatever happens > anyway, > > > and we're making good use of the time while she's here to write some > more > > > songs. > > > > > > Martin. In London. > > > PS Also thanks so much for your wonderful review of the album on cdbaby. > > > It's quite a high knowing that our music is being appreciated around the > > > world! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Michael Paz > > > To: Martin Giles > > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:49 AM > > > Subject: Re: UK PARTY for JONI... then some Stryngs news > > > > > > > > >> Count me in I want to hear it. Hey why don't you guys come record your > > > next > > >> record in New Orleans??? I'd love to help out any way I can. And tie > that > > >> damn Stryngs woman down so you guys can get to the next level. > > >> > > >> Love > > >> > > >> Paz > > >> > > >>> Hey folks, > > >>> > > >>> This evening, I decided to have a look through the DAT recording I > made > > > of > > >>> last weekend's Joni birthday party in Bedford, UK. It's not a bad > > > recording, > > >>> considering it was just one microphone propped up on a table in the > > > middle > > >>> of the room. I can edit it and make it available on CD-R to anyone who > > >>> wants. > > >>> > > >>> Sally's 'Both Sides Now' is something I'm sure those who were there on > > >>> Saturday will remember for a long, long time. Like Chris, I was > reduced > > > to > > >>> tears by it! Not only was her singing completely thrilling, but her > > > piano > > >>> work was fascinating for the imaginative chords she used. It has come > > > out > > >>> very well on the tape, so I'll get a copy to Chris this weekend to > post > > > on > > >>> our website... that is if Sally doesn't object. Does anyone know how > to > > > get > > >>> in touch with her? Anita? > > >>> > > >>> Lucy - thanks for your post about the weekend - you put it all across > so > > >>> well. And thanks for your compliments about the songs we played you. > > > 'Sweet > > >>> As Lemons' has been played at the Jonifest, of course - but 'Hidden > > > Tattoo' > > >>> and 'Eremos' were genuine debut performances :) It was great to see > you > > >>> again, and to meet Frank also. > > >>> > > >>> Anita - Just want to say a big thank you for organising the Joni > party. > > > It > > >>> was great fun, and a great success. Thank you so much for all your > hard > > >>> work. Do you know if the video has come out at all by the way? > > >>> > > >>> Martin, in London. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:26:25 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel thank you, debra!!!! so the line about paris settled in its ways must somewhere else. i wish i remembered where exactly. this would be one more clue. it was very moving to read this poem again. chances are i'll never read the original again. one more thing, i recognize all the names (falu, firpo, etc). i wonder if bob wants to footnote the piece for the joni in fiction section. as to "their laws on my body", it is a reference to maurice fanon's **me souvenir de toi, de ta loi sur mon corps,** -- "my memories of you, of your power over my body" (in this context "loi" sounds more like power or control than law to me). love, wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: dsk [mailto:dsk11@bellatlantic.net] > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 06:56 a.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz > CC: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel > > > Wally Kairuz wrote: > > > Timewise it's a possibility, but I can't tell from reading this version, > Wally. It would be interesting somehow sometime to read your full > translation. > > So to keep all the details in one message: The following is from "A > Manual for Manuel" by Julio Cortazar, published in Argentina in 1973 as > "Libro de Manuel", translated from the Spanish by Gregory Rabassa, > English translation copyright 1978, pages 356-358. I've typed it out > exactly as it's printed, except for these things that I can't do in this > plain text message: anything between ** and ** is italicized, the name > Falu has an accent over the u, Andres has an accent over the e, Gomez > has an accent over the o, and Cortazar has an accent over the first a. > I typed out what comes after the end of the poem (which really does end > with a comma) only because I love the listing of women, that includes > Joni, and the phrase, "their laws on my body." I don't know exactly what > that means, but I like it anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 21:43:46 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel (for AOL users) Wally says: thank you, debra!!!! so the line about paris settled in its ways must somewhere else. i wish i remembered where exactly. this would be one more clue. it was very moving to read this poem again. chances are i'll never read the original again. one more thing, i recognize all the names (falu, firpo, etc). i wonder if bob wants to footnote the piece for the joni in fiction section. as to "their laws on my body", it is a reference to maurice fanon's **me souvenir de toi, de ta loi sur mon corps,** -- "my memories of you, of your power over my body" (in this context "loi" sounds more like power or control than law to me). > love, wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: dsk [mailto:dsk11@bellatlantic.net] > > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 06:56 a.m. > > Para: Wally Kairuz > > CC: joni@smoe.org > > Asunto: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel > > > > > > Wally Kairuz wrote: > > > > > > Timewise it's a possibility, but I can't tell from reading this version, > > Wally. It would be interesting somehow sometime to read your full > > translation. > > > > So to keep all the details in one message: The following is from "A > > Manual for Manuel" by Julio Cortazar, published in Argentina in 1973 as > > "Libro de Manuel", translated from the Spanish by Gregory Rabassa, > > English translation copyright 1978, pages 356-358. I've typed it out > > exactly as it's printed, except for these things that I can't do in this > > plain text message: anything between ** and ** is italicized, the name > > Falu has an accent over the u, Andres has an accent over the e, Gomez > > has an accent over the o, and Cortazar has an accent over the first a. > > I typed out what comes after the end of the poem (which really does end > > with a comma) only because I love the listing of women, that includes > > Joni, and the phrase, "their laws on my body." I don't know exactly what > > that means, but I like it anyway. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #571 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)