From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #570 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, November 18 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 570 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- more new guitar stuff ["Marian" ] Brian Blade on drums (NJC) ["G'n H" ] Re: Travelogue "Top 11" - A new poll ? [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Joni's voice on S&L [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L [Steve Polifka ] T'LOG Top 11 [Harry83house@aol.com] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["J.David Sapp" <] NJC - Little Breen Noodle ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L ["mia ortlieb" ] City of ghosts ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's voice on S&L ["Kate Bennett" ] marilyn njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: City of ghosts [Emiliano ] Re: City of ghosts [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: City of ghosts ["Kate Bennett" ] Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [was City of ghosts] njc [dsk ] Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [dsk ] Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [was City of ghosts] njc ["anon anon" ] RE: UK PARTY for JONI... ["Martin Giles" ] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) [Bob.Muller@Fluor] RE: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: City of ghosts [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Art for Art's Sake... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) ["Mark or Travis"] Re: Joni's voice on S&L ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] An interesting test njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: An interesting test njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: An interesting test njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Today in History: November 18 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: November 18 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: An interesting test njc ["kakki" ] RE: An interesting test njc ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Joni's voice on S&L, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: An interesting test njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: An interesting test njc [Janet Hess ] The Song Writers Tour NJC [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 04:39:56 -0500 From: "Marian" Subject: more new guitar stuff I added two transcriptions from Mia Ortlieb - (1) Just Like Me and (2) Me And My Uncle (the John Phillips song from the "Sing Out" video). Mia has contributed a number of songs to the JMDL guitar database. Thank you for these latest ones, Mia! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:14:02 +0200 From: "G'n H" Subject: Brian Blade on drums (NJC) On Richard Bona's Web Forum there's an interesting link to the track "Eyala". http://www.bonatology.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=43 David Sanborn at NorthSeaJazzFestival2000: Joe Sample-piano, David Sanborn-sax, Richard Bona-bass, guitar, vocals Brian Blade-drums Nothing else but a beautiful musical experience! _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:07:39 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Travelogue "Top 11" - A new poll ? I must like Travelogue more than I thought, because it was actually difficult picking my eleven. Here goes, although I don't vouch for the song ordering, because I'm no good at that. BTW, I don't really *like* The Circle Game - not even the original - but I thought it would make a good closer. >Otis And Marlena >Amelia >You Dream Flat Tires >For The Roses >Trouble Child >God Must Be A Boogie Man >Refuge Of The Roads >Cherokee Louise >The Dawntreader >The Last Time I Saw Richard >The Circle Game Now, the BEST Travelogue might be a five-song bonus disk accompanying Joni's album of new material. In which case I would pick: Otis And Marlena You Dream Flat Tires God Must Be A Boogie Man The Dawntreader The Last Time I Saw Richard - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:25:31 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L Mia, I noticed this also on the DVD, which can be viewed and listened to much more critically than the VHS tape. I posted this very observation, and though some disagree with me, I still think Raised On Robbery is dubbed. Jerry > Mia wrote > Through-out S & L, Joni's voice > does seem just a tad bit on the rough side - then all of a sudden, with > "Raised On Robbery," her voice dramatically changes to sweet and smooth. I > can't understand this, unless she did an overdub of her voice on that song. > I've watched the video many times, and it seems entirely possible that it > may be a voice overdub. > > Has anyone else noticed this too? > I not only had not noticed it, Mia, I am afraid I do not agree with your > evaluation. > > I think Joni's voice is great throughout that concert. In particular, I think > her version of Edith surpasses the HOSL version, and Black Crow is > outstanding, too. Furry..... everything, really. > > There were different tracks on the video than on the CD. I would not be > surprised if the tracks came from more than one concert at the same venue. > However, > the intro to Raised on Robbery on the video reveals Joni stumbling/stammering > over the scene at the bar - at the point where she says,"he was putting a > little money on the Maple Leafs". I have not studied the video at that point, > but > I think that would be a good place to look. If the shape of her mouth seems > to fit those stumbled syllables neatly, I would guess that would suggest > strongly that there was no overdubbing. Frankly, I doubt that there were any > whole > songs overdubbed - is it common to overdub concert gaffs ? > > Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:34:56 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L Jerry replied "Mia, I noticed this also on the DVD, which can be viewed and listened to much more critically than the VHS tape. I posted this very observation, and though some disagree with me, I still think Raised On Robbery is dubbed. Jerry" Now me. I am not that adroit with DVD's (having only had one for about a year), but on the VHS I can easily play and replay selected subsets of material. Can I do that with my (simple) DVD player, or do I have to go back to the song's beginning each time ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:46:00 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L > Jerry replied >> "Mia, >> >> I noticed this also on the DVD, which can be viewed and listened to much >> more critically than the VHS tape. I posted this very observation, and >> though some disagree with me, I still think Raised On Robbery is dubbed. >> >> Jerry" > > Now me. I am not that adroit with DVD's (having only had one for about a > year), but on the VHS I can easily play and replay selected subsets of > material. Can I do that with my (simple) DVD player, or do I have to go back > to the song's beginning each time ? > > Bobsart > You can go back to any point. And without rewinding! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:25:23 -0600 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L At 09:32 PM 11/16/2003 EST, Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: Frankly, I doubt that there were any whole >songs overdubbed - is it common to overdub concert gaffs ? > >Bobsart > > Bob, I have watched S&L many times and I swear that the lip-sync is off. Watch it closely. It way take a time or rwo, but you'll notice it. If the song wasn't overdubbed, maybe the video does. The camera work is really shoddy in that song compared to the rest of the video. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:31:38 EST From: Harry83house@aol.com Subject: T'LOG Top 11 I think this is a great idea and fun! Here goes: 1. Otis and Marlene 2. Amelia 3. You Dream Flat Tires 4. Slouching Towards Bethlehem 5. The Sire of Sorrow (Job's Sad Song) 6. Refuge of the Roads 7. Hejira 8. Chinese Cafe/Unchained Melody 9. Cherokee Louise 10. The Dawntreader 11. The Circle Game All the best, Harry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:24:37 -0600 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) Here's my deal with Travelogue: I respond to the criticisms because the list goes thru phases where that is the only point of view being expressed. I then feel compelled to say "Whoa Nelly". I like Travelogue very much - do I think it perfect? No. Do I think it courageous, modern, edgy, revolutionary? Yes. I just wish others could see the beauty of the art itself before casting judgment - art is not necessarily meant to be liked or even enjoyed, but appreciated as the unique vision of the artist. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:17:47 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: NJC - Little Breen Noodle This is hysterical Walt! You're so funny! Thanks for the laugh of the day. Love Donna >>> 11/15/2003 2:00:07 AM >>> In a message dated 11/7/03 5:26:07 AM, groovchacha@yahoo.com writes: << My only disappointment came when we were shunned and shut out at the Tony's this year. Ugh how I hate awards ... especially when I am not receiving them! But alas like our birthday girl - someday they will recognize your genius and grant you a lifetime achievement award! >> LOL! I can see myself nervously tearing my program to shreds as they read out the list: "And now the nominees for the award for Lifetime Achievement in Failure will be read by two of the nominees, Lonnie Anderson and Michael Dukakis:" Lonnie: Hi, Michael, I haven't seen you in the political arena since, well, you know... Michael: Yes, Lonnie, and i haven't seen you on TV since that thing about the radio show, what was it called? WPIG in Indianapolis? Lonnie: (icily) Close enough. [Opening the envelope] And the winner is... Walter Breen, for his Play "Joni Noodles" and his Christmas Musical Performance piece, "Morbid Little Christmas Chorus", both of which were performed at most once, and for a huge file of unpublished academic articels and at least six novels. Wow, Michael -- at least you were Governor of some state or other at some point, weren't you? [I've come up behind them to accept the award at this point, but they're too busy throwing barbs at one another to notice me] Michael: [really simmering now] Yes, dear, it's called Massachusetts. And you -- you can hardly be called obscure if you're married to the great Burt Reynolds! [It looks like they're headed for a brawl, so I manage to pry the award - -- a man slumped on a toilet with his face in his hands -- it's officially called the McLane Stevenson Award For Apparently Willful Failure, but everyone calls it a Dumpy -- out of Michael's hands. Good thing Lonnie wasn't clenching it, I'd never've been able to pry it loose. As I walk off the stage smiling triumphantly with the statue held high, no one notices -- they're watching the slugfest on stage, Danny Bonaduce and Ashton Kutchner trying to pry them apart...] Ah, well, I can dream, can't I? Big hug, Susan -- hope all is well. Love, Walt This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:36:22 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L Bob replied "However, the intro to Raised on Robbery on the video reveals Joni stumbling/stammering over the scene at the bar - at the point where she says,"he was putting a little money on the Maple Leafs". I have not studied the video at that point, but I think that would be a good place to look. If the shape of her mouth seems to fit those stumbled syllables neatly, I would guess that would suggest strongly that there was no overdubbing." Actually, I don't feel that the intro to Raised on Robbery was dubbed at all. Her speaking voice feels very live here. It's the singing part that feels like memorex to me. And there are less close-up shots of her face here compared to her other songs. Also, I should clarify that I don't feel that Joni's voice is bad at all on the video. It's just that in comparison to Raised on Robbery, the other songs sound rougher, which is typical for live music. The voice on Raised on Robbery has a studio-like quality. Mia _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:35:15 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: City of ghosts Rented this dvd & at the end there was a woman singing BSN, in spanish perhaps? Bob do you have this one? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:08 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L >There were different tracks on the video than on the CD. I would not be surprised if the tracks came from more than one concert at the same venue.< To my knowledge there was only one concert in santa barbara (where they filmed s&l) for this tour... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:45:38 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: marilyn njc Sending prayers & wishes your way for improved health & affordable housing...sometimes miracles happen, even in bureaucracy... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:07:10 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: City of ghosts Hi, Kate, if I'm not mistaken, this is in *cambodian! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Kate Bennett" Para: Enviado: lunes, 17 de noviembre de 2003 18:35 Asunto: City of ghosts > Rented this dvd & at the end there was a woman singing BSN, in spanish > perhaps? Bob do you have this one? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:48:07 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: City of ghosts Kate writes: << Bob do you have this one? >> Yes, Kate, it's at: http://www.jmdl.com/fiction/film.cfm And here's what it says: According to an alert JMDLer, you can hear Both Sides Now being sung during the ending credits in this film, which is also Matt Dillon's feature directorial debut. The big surprise is the song is sung in Khmer and the band is Dengue Fever! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:55:51 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: City of ghosts Duh you are so right...i have no idea why I wrote spanish?!... I think I was confusing the movie with another I recently watched...sometimes movies run together & I can't remember which is which...anyway I should have known the bobs were on it! >Hi, Kate, if I'm not mistaken, this is in *cambodian!< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:33:45 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [was City of ghosts] njc Kate Bennett wrote: > > ...anyway I should have known the bobs were on it! It IS hard to find something that one or the other of the hard-working Bobs doesn't know about. So here's something for Mr. Joni-in-Fiction Bob... I've found my copy of Julio Cortazar's "Manual for Manuel" with the mentions of Joni in it, including a long poem. It's not on jmdl.com yet (other than Wally's mention of it under "poetry"), but before I type it all out and scan the cover, I want to make sure you still need it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:45:17 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [was City of ghosts] njc Hi, Debra! As far as Cortazar's Joni-related work goes, all we have now is what you see at Joni in Fiction. Thanks for the help. As you may remember, Wally had to get rid of his copy during a time in Argentina when it would have been dangerous to have been caught with Cortazar's work, so it's great to finally find someone who has it. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:12:06 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Marilyn - NJC Dear Marilyn, My prayers are with you during this difficult time. Please write again when you can to let your Joni Family know how you are doing. Donna >>> marilyn huggins 11/15/2003 9:57:55 PM >>> I saw the specialist the other day & surgery won't help me. I have pulmonary hypertension & need to stay here at Lifecare because Ma & Dad can't take care of me. I'm in the process of applying for subsidized housing, but Malden has a 1 year waiting list. Hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving!! Marilyn This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:37:39 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > > Hi, Debra! > > As far as Cortazar's Joni-related work goes, all we have now is what you see > at Joni in Fiction. Thanks for the help. As you may remember, Wally had to get > rid of his copy during a time in Argentina when it would have been dangerous > to have been caught with Cortazar's work, I don't remember Wally saying that, but since the book is full of news reports and transcripts of political prisoners' testimony, yes, I can see how it would be a dangerous book for anyone in Argentina to have around (and can relate to that a little more now that Bush and Ashcroft are in charge here). I've had the hardback version for at least 20 years, purchased when I was enthralled by Latin American writing, and am glad I hung onto it because now it's impossible to find. The translation from Spanish is by Gregory Rabassa. > so it's great to finally find > someone who has it. Good. I thought perhaps the "mystery woman" you'd sent a message about had come forward, but since she has not, here's a bit from the book that we can all probably relate to: "Manuel [a baby] will understand," I told him, "Manual will understand someday. And now I'm leaving because it's late, I've got to pick up a Joni Mitchell record they promised me and keep putting some order into what the one I told you left us." "In that order of priorities?" Patricio said looking at him in the eye. "Your Joni what's-her-name and then the other thing?" "I don't know," Andres said, "it might be that way or the reverse but it will be both things, always. ..." - -------------- That's it for that Joni mention. I like the blurb on the back cover: "The Times Literary Supplement has hailed "A Manual for Manuel" as a "liberating book [which] presents a heroic notion of revolution difficult to realize.... There will be room in it for Andy Warhol, aleatory music, Rimbaud, Joni Mitchell, and magic." I'll send the poem and picture soon. Debra Shea, in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:45:19 -0500 From: "anon anon" Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel [was City of ghosts] njc Has anyone read Cortazar's short story "Blow Up"?One of my favorite movies is "Blow Up",by Antonioni,which is loosly based on the short story by Cortazar,which I haven't read yet. _________________________________________________________________ Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:03:19 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel --- dsk wrote: quoting from "Manual for Manuel"" > "Manuel [a baby] will understand," I told him, > "Manual will understand > someday. And now I'm leaving because it's late, I've > got to pick up a > Joni Mitchell record they promised me and keep > putting some order into > what the one I told you left us." > > "In that order of priorities?" Patricio said looking > at him in the eye. > "Your Joni what's-her-name and then the other > thing?" > > "I don't know," Andres said, "it might be that way > or the reverse but it > will be *both things, always. ..."* > The section in the last paragraph, that I marked between **s, sounds just a wee bit like "Both Sides Now", doesn't it? ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:35:20 -0000 From: "Martin Giles" Subject: RE: UK PARTY for JONI... Hi folks, I've edited the UK Joni Birthday Party concert and it boils down to a double CD package. It is a recording from a mic on a table in the middle of the room, and it turns out that the mic was beginning to die at the time. Having said that, it's a good balance, and not bad audio quality. It's all slickly edited :) to make a continous concert listening experience, and features a lot of great renditions of Joni's songs performed in arrangements varying from piano and voice, to a full band including two percussionists. Can anyone who would like a copy get in touch, so I can figure what will be the best way to get them copied/posted. Martin. In London. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:28:28 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) "art is not necessarily meant to be liked or even enjoyed, but appreciated as the unique vision of the artist." And I'll say "Whoa Nelly" (which I would do anyway as I'm not a fan of Nelly) to this remark, because I don't think of a record or a cd as "art" and I think when a recording artist makes a record they definitely want it to be enjoyed because guess what?...THEY ARE MAKING A COMMERCIAL COMMODITY FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC. This is a very different thing from a unique painting/sculpture/photograph/dance etc. that is a unique entity created by an artist as a means of expression. I would certainly agree to your statement as it relates to certain artistic endeavors, but where music is concerned, about 99% of the time I would disagree. Of course Joni wants her work to be enjoyed, otherwise why the constant bitterness about the business and her (supposed) lack of recognition? Bob NP: Cherry Poppin' Daddies, "Dr. Bones" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:14:23 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Cortazar's Manual for Manuel i would so much like to read the poem in english. if i remember well, there's a line that says "paris, una ciudad tan anclada en si misma", which would loosely translate into "paris, a city so settled in its ways." i've always wondered if the album that the narrator is so eagerly waiting to get in paris may be blue. wally, who buried this and other books in a land patch next to a highway many years ago... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:16:31 -0500 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Art for Art's Sake... Muller retorted with "because guess what?...THEY ARE MAKING A COMMERCIAL COMMODITY > FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC." Treacy responds by saying (uh-oh, Bob, you've really opened a can-o-worms with this one) that this all depends on the artist and the art in question. Whereas on the one hand, the new Mandy Moore cd is definitely marketed with a financial goal and game-plan attached and is, therefore, truly a product, something like Rickie Lee's new release qualifies as art for arts sake; they don't sell records, and they KNOW they don't sell shit, so there is NO MONEY to be made (in fact, probably some to be lost) on the project. There is a fine line between high art and pop culture. - -Chris PS. Saw Ani last night...un-fucking-believable. New songs sound great; new CD is due 1/20/04. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:26:51 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: City of ghosts Right you are, Emiliano...this is in the Cambodian language of Khmer, and was recorded by Dengue Fever. They're an LA band with a Khmer female vocalist. Bob NP: The Chieftains w/Bonnie Raitt, "A Stor Mo Chroi" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:49:01 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Art for Art's Sake... Yeah, I know it's all sort of in the eye of the beholder, but still, I think that if a musician truly just wants to create music for its own sake they wouldn't record it, package it, market it and sell it. (As RLJ does as much as anyone). I would say that Joni's painting is art for art's sake, she's not under any sort of financial arrangement that I'm aware of to produce paintings for commerce. I don't think her music is on the same terms. Yes, Mandy Moore's cd is product, but she also felt like she had a mission to produce a record for her generation where she hopes to expose them to great songwriters that they've missed or that have been undervalued in today's market like Joni, Joan Armatrading, Todd Rundgren, Hiatt. Partridge, etc. Her mission is no less noble in her mind (and indeed she's been openly critical of her earlier work and has dismissed it as pop crap) than Rickie Lee's mission to "tell somebody what's happening in the USA" and raise money for Furniture For The People. Of course RLJ hopes that her project is successful for her and her causes. Why would she NOT be? Glad you got to see Ani - can't wait for the NEXT new one! Bob NP: EmmyLou Harris, "O Evangeline" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:35:15 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Travelog Top 11 (now Tlight, compliments of Murphy) > I just wish others could see the beauty of the art itself before > casting judgment - art is not necessarily meant to be liked or even > enjoyed, but appreciated as the unique vision of the artist. > > peace, david Amen, Brother! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:14:16 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L Bobsart asked, >Frankly, I doubt that there were any whole >songs overdubbed - is it common to overdub >concert gaffs ? Now Lama- Bob, I hope I can break this to you gently. 1. I think it was Gerald/Jerry Notaro who dissected S&L long ago. He has a full surround setup (maybe with external digital to analog converters?) which gives him vastly superior resolution if I recall. I think he had a big screen too. Whom ever it was spoke at length about half-matching lip synching through much of S&L, and that some tracks match *exact*ly. I don't remember if he was watching the Hong Kong DVD or a LaserDisc. Anyway, sometimes a low-res system like mine is a blessing. 2. To answer your question, Bob, I'll ask you a question. Have you ever seen the footage of CSN at Woodstock in the film "WOODSTOCK"? If you've seen the footage, you weren't watching their performance at WOODSTOCK, if I recall correctly. They were the headliners but they uhmmm.... that is, that particular night they... well... let's just say that David Geffen insisted that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. That or release the film without CSN. I know this sounds like I'm trolling for an argument so I'll ask for someone to back me up on this. Someone younger than myself, with a superior memory. (Kakki?) 3. Ever see the movie by The Talking Heads, called "STOP MAKING SENSE"? Rolling Stone magazine said they didn't like their musical performace that night but the video was perfect so they just wiped the soundtrack and re-recorded it in studios. Bingo. Note perfect takes on every song. 4. Now I respect Carly and all but... I have a VHS of a Carly Simon concert at Martha's Vineyard. They performed on the dock in a steady 20mph headwind. It constantly whips her clothes. She winces throughout, singing into the wind. The mics have no wind screens yet.... Multi-layered choruses of female back vocals come out of the mouths of two or three male band members, and there are no wind sounds at all. Gosh, it sounds exactly like a brand-new, click-tracked studio recording! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?! Lama PS, You already know about Santa Claus, right? :) PPSS, Best quote of the day, "By myzelf I can nat lift da burden fram de z-date of Cal-ee-ffforn-eee-ya. Bud, togedda, WE CAN!" And that Maria Shriver woman is spectacular. She made me feel better about California all by herself! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:15:03 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: TRAVELOGUE: better than nothing? Okay, now I *am* trolling for an arguement. Since Joni's done with writing and done with touring, would it have been better to stop with "BOTH SIDES NOW", or better to record and release "TRAVELOGUE"? Are we so unhappy with it that we'd rather it had not been made? That vacuum, that clean sheet of paper is what each artist starts with. Did you see "8 & 1/2" where Fellini's character is ultimately convinced NOT to make a movie because the best it could ever be is "derivative". Is TRAVELOGUE better than nothing or not? To me, the fleshy, ripe version of "LUDWIG'S TUNE" is worth the price of admission but everyone's heard me say that already. Joni meets Copeland. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:36:09 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's voice on S&L Lama wrote re the performance of CSN at Woodstock: > let's just say that David Geffen insisted > that the producers use footage from an entirely different venue. That or > release the film without CSN. I know this sounds like I'm trolling for an > argument so I'll ask for someone to back me up on this. Someone younger > than myself, with a superior memory. (Kakki?) Ha! I don't know the history on that one - but in general, I could see the reason for possibly re-recording a song performance from a live show if it wasn't the greatest and sounded inconsistent quality-wise with the other songs. By the way, a friend of mine who is a sound editor in the movie biz says that most actors'/actresses' speaking parts are re-recorded after the fact in the studio. That is, Brad Pitt or whomever, come in just to re-record their parts. Hearing that was also like learning there was no Santa Claus ;-) I asked how they could match up the spoken word with the acting already on film and she said they are pros and there is all kinds of wizardry to make it fairly seamless. Regarding the Carly live performance: > They performed on the dock in a steady 20mph headwind. > It constantly whips her clothes. She winces throughout, singing into the > wind. The mics have no wind screens yet.... Multi-layered choruses of > female back vocals come out of the mouths of two or three male band members, > and there are no wind sounds at all. Gosh, it sounds exactly like a > brand-new, click-tracked studio recording! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?! But the engineers don't normally record a show like we would do with a DAT machine tucked up in our baseball cap and with all the vagaries of the wind blowing and crowd roaring. Don't the performers mics go directly into the board to be mixed together all perfect later? > PPSS, Best quote of the day, "By myzelf I can nat lift da burden fram de > z-date of Cal-ee-ffforn-eee-ya. Bud, togedda, WE CAN!" And that Maria > Shriver woman is spectacular. She made me feel better about California all > by herself! Oh geez! LOL I missed his speech. It seems a lot of people are jokingly talking Ahnold-speak these days. A bunch of lawyers were doing it on the elvator the other day and everyone was doubled over laughing, especially when one suggested that Siegfried should now run for Gov of Nevada! But I agree on Maria. She is great! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:32:00 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: An interesting test njc http://www.politicalcompass.org/ I'm in the mandela/dalai lama/gandi quadrant...no surprise there Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:52:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: An interesting test njc gee! i'm a frigging pinko! Economic Left/Right: -7.00 Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.15 very close to you on the number line, kate! wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate > Bennett > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 03:32 a.m. > Para: Joni@Smoe. Org > Asunto: An interesting test njc > > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > I'm in the mandela/dalai lama/gandi quadrant...no surprise there > Economic Left/Right: -6.25 > Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:00:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: An interesting test njc did you do the iconochasms quiz? you are in for a few surprises!!! link is on the bar on the left margin. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Kate > Bennett > Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2003 03:32 a.m. > Para: Joni@Smoe. Org > Asunto: An interesting test njc > > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > I'm in the mandela/dalai lama/gandi quadrant...no surprise there > Economic Left/Right: -6.25 > Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.23 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:00:12 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 18 1966: Chuck and Joni perform at the Second Fret in Philadelphia. 2002: Joni attends the SOCAN Awards in Toronto where she is awarded the William Harold Moon Award for her contribution in bringing international recognition to Canada through her music. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=980 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:00:12 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 18 On November 18 the following articles were published: 1992: "Two Songwriters Win Rights To Hit Song 36 Years After Writing It" - Associated Press (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1125 1995: "Mitchell does rare live show at New York club" - Billboard (Review - Appearance) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=1127 2002: "Awards Go Out To Top Canadian Songwriters & Publishers" - Canada NewsWire (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=986 2002: "Mitchell, Furtado win Socan awards" - Canadian Press (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=980 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:04:10 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: An interesting test njc I'm Tony Blair! LOL (and Frederic Bastiat and Ayn Rand) Economic/Left/Right: 3.0 Libertarian/Authoritarian: - 2.92 I think the questions are pretty loaded but good points are made regarding the common misconceptions of what is "left" and what is "right." Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:19:54 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: An interesting test njc Shocking! Only ones I knew for certain were eisenhower & bush sr >did you do the iconochasms quiz? you are in for a few surprises!!! link is on the bar on the left margin. Wally<> http://www.politicalcompass.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:14:54 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Joni's voice on S&L, njc Kakki, At least you have a fresh start with "a classy act" in the Governor's mansion, unlike the constituents of Jessie Ventura. It oddly reassuring to see a Kennedy woman standing next to her man on the podium and grinning like life is good, all things are possible, every problem has a solution, and good people will make wise, compassionate decisions. It dovetails strangely but in a familiar way with all of the Camelot stories in the news this week. Lama npimh: "IGY" by Donald Fagen but np: JT's "Baby Buffalo" on OCTOBER ROAD The governor-elect of the great state of California said, "By myzelf I can nat lift da burden fram da zz-date of Cal-ee-ffforn-eee-ya. Bud, do-gedda, WE CAN!" Lama opined, >that Maria Shriver woman is spectacular. She made me feel better about California all by herself!> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:24:24 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: An interesting test njc Well didn't someone call you the ayn rand of the list kakki? Lol...yes I agree that some of the questions were not clear enough to answer the way I wanted to...also interesting is where they place the 2003 candidates...(on left) >I'm Tony Blair! LOL (and Frederic Bastiat and Ayn Rand) Kakki< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:34:41 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: An interesting test njc Economic Left/Right: -6.75 Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.49 I guess we're on a planet all our own. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who thinks the only political compass worth mentioning points to lots of Fishy treats ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:53:38 EST From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: The Song Writers Tour NJC I just happen to turn on my radio out in the garage doing some wood working when I hear the DJ be the 2nd and 3rd caller to win two tickets to experience Shawn Colvin, M.C. Carpenter and Dar Williams. Quess what ? I was the 3rd caller. Dar Williams you can take the girl out of Cambridge but she still dresses like the women at Radcliffe (Sweater, Pleated Shirt 3 inches above the knees Hose and Leather Boots all in earth tone colors),she sang that silly Babysitter song but redeemed her self with February which Joan Baez covered wonderfully on her CD "Gone from Danger". OH Dar's got a boy on the way! and Swawn brought out a Floral Pregnant dress on stage for Dar. Mary Chapin Carpenter started out the show explaining it to be a "Guitar Pull" Mary songs sounded like classical written sonnets compared to the common verse of Shawn's songs. Mary dresses casual in compliance with Portland's dress code Which is wear Jeans or Khaki anywhere or Corduroys if its too cold. She has the best finger work on the strings and a beautiful sounding and looking guitar Patty Griffin is Turbo charged Emmy Lou Harris, dresses in better department store skirt and fine silk blouse with red high heels and it was entraining to watch her tap those toes during the songs. She had a Semi Dobro type guitar that TWANGED and when she sang a Bessie Smith song she added a Texas swing to it and felt like a fine Bourbon sliding down your throat. Shawn Colvin she is a singular invention, mop of red hair plaid mini dress with casual corduroys. But OMG playing and singing she is a goddess of infinite talent. she did let slip that Larry Klien has a talking owl pull toy that squawk out psycho babble, Shawn during the whole performance had a talking Mr. T pocket protector and operated between songs to wake up the Monday night audience. The women did get the crowd going when they covered that well known Backstreet boys song "I want it my way." This was the last show on the tour and they let it slip that they had to cancel there Las Vegas show. Enough Good night Keep the fire burning bright Brian Poetland, Oregon ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #570 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)