From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #562 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, November 12 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 562 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Cyndi Lauper NJC [David Marine ] Re: Tin Angel - and favorite song on Clouds poll [Bobsart48@aol.com] Fw: nov 12!!!! njc (for AOL users) [emilianopd@mundo-r.com] Re: HOSL and freshness [Bobsart48@aol.com] Calling LAURENT (NJC) ["TheWizardOfIs" ] Re: Improving on Clouds [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Tin Angel - and favorite song on Clouds poll [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Homework - Favorite song poll [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Joni lyric used in book text -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Homework - Favorite song poll [Jerry Notaro ] birthday (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Improving on Clouds [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: birthday (NJC) ["TheWizardOfIs" ] [none] [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Nylon stockings [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: Nylon stockings [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] Re: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" <] full mailbox, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts now njc [Gary Zack ] Re: CSN&Y VCDs Permavine ["Laurent Olszer" ] WOHAM moments ["Laurent Olszer" ] RE: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts ["Maggie McNally" Subject: Cyndi Lauper NJC Hey List -- I saw Cyndi Lauper last night at the Roxy in LA and she is extraordinary. Can't think of anyone who who could make La Vie En Rose, At Last, and Unchained Melody sound fresh. And her "Stay" and "Walk On By"......etc.....she's just so unique and genuine and talented. Anyway, she's touring in small clubs, so go to her site and if she's in your town, see her! Best, David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:38:32 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Tin Angel - and favorite song on Clouds poll Russ wrote: "Like Victor, I love "Tin Angel" as a lead track. I got into that album my first year at college, and played "Clouds" a lot. TA was my favorite song on the record, and I always think of it when I see the cover. Also, I'm not one for the "obvious" choice... though I bet someone at Warners wanted "Chelsea" at the begining... luckily Joni got her way! " A few points worthy of discussion from Russ, in only one little paragraph. First, Joni usually did get her way, eh ? Second, that TA was you favorite song on Clouds. I bet that if we polled the JMDL, we'd get votes for each song on the record as the "favorite song" - another Joni trademark. Let's do it - My vote goes to "I Think I Understand". Tin Angel Chelsea Morning I Don't Know Where I Stand That Song About The Midway Roses Blue The Gallery I Think I Understand Songs To Aging Children Come The Fiddle And The Drum Both Sides, Now Third, like Bob Muller, I would have preferred Chelsea Morning as an "opener". Not so much because it has the qualities of a "classic" opener (enough meat to attract interest, and that welcoming quality that makes one want to see the rest of the house), but because in a way TA is too similar to (yet not as strong a song, IMO, as) I Had A King, the opener to her first - STAS. One might wonder, early on, "was this to be Joni's idea of a formula for album layout?" (No, she was to change tacks several times over her collection, but her choice of "openers" did tend to become more "classic" with her subsequent albums, IMO). Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:35:43 +0000 (GMT) From: emilianopd@mundo-r.com Subject: Fw: nov 12!!!! njc (for AOL users) >thanks for the post about hissing, bruce! now i can simply press reply to >all and say.... > >H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > dear bruce!!!!!!!!! > >love, >wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 03:55:40 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL and freshness Bruce wrote "Listening to HOSL for the past few days and, yet again, I am so smitten. One of the wonderful things about Joni is that I discover new things all the time in her work." Amen, Bruce. And nice post ! (Ditto in spades to Catherine for her post on TA) Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:16:28 -0000 From: "TheWizardOfIs" Subject: Calling LAURENT (NJC) Laurent, Do you have an alternate e-mail addy - mail is bouncing back from the one I have. My burner needs you!! AMO (Sorry about this, folks.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:50 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: UK Joni Birthday Bash Dear all It has been lovely to read all the posts about the UK Joni Party we held last Saturday. I am so pleased that people have enjoyed it so much and seem to have taken so much from it. The appreciation for Sally (Clay)'s set seems boundless - and I share the sentiments already expressed about her knock out version of BSN. I have worked with Sally's Mum, Judy, for over 20 years and am passing on all the post and to her and her excellent jazz piano playing Dad, Steve. I know they are all delighted. There were so many great performances. I loved Debra and Martin's rendition of 'I had a king'. Debra is the only singer I personally know around here who has the purity of the early Joni voice. Their version gave me goose bumps. Then there was 'Jaco' Marshall rockin solidly with my samba buddies, Phil and Steph. I really loved Phil's percussion arrangement for Black Crow and it sat neatly with Chris-Jaco's bass. As at Joni Fest, Les Ross put himself through Hell to get up there and play - but do it he did - and, of course,leaving not a dry eye when he found himself in the song and not worrying about it. Les took a risk as did so many of us on that day. The local club organiser,Michelle,said that she had read that everyone should do something risky once a day. She and a friend covered Circle Game and said it was enough risk for 10 years! A single rehearsal of about 3 hours for all the songs we covered was likewise a risk for us all. Winging it big time. I wonder just what could be possible if we had time to really work on it. My mate Dave played with Tim Hardin in the 1960s and is a well respected jazz and blues guitarist - playing with many famous greats. It was good to see him challenged by the complexities of Joni's material and for him to ask ME how to do a couple of things was just brilliant! Dave said to me at the end felt he was a bit too busy in some of the songs, but when he's really 'there and on it' he lifts things to another musical level. His solo in Woodstock blew me off the stage. He and his wife, Maria (who kicked things off with a great piano rendition of 'All I want') were very solid support to me. They and Steph knew how hard I was struggling for the two weeks run up to the gig with my Mother who had been taken very ill. It made the organisation of the gig that bit harder to focus on. Whenever she's ill these days I wonder if this is 'it' this time and I start preparing myself as best I can. I though about Ashara's Mother being in hospital in the run up to Joni Fest and also that we held Ashara Day for all that she had done for Joni Fest. Well, folks, I think it should be Ashara Week after my experience of organising this one small event. I am now watching the video of Saturday's party and I start to remember more about Joni Fest. When I attended Joni Fest for the first time this year, Steph and I collected Joni's blonde guitar which Ashara had taken delivery of for us.It was such a big deal for me and I found I was crying buckets and feeling overwhelmed a lot of the time. I even said I would change my name to Boo Baby. Well, Boo Baby is back big time and I feel run over by a truck as I look at the video of Saturday's Joni Party . I see Lucy beautifully read Mags' piece 'The People Who Love Joni' which Mags sent to the list in September. As I look, it seems that people are lightly breathing as one and I feel their hearts open to Mags and Brian as they hear of her love for Dave. Lucy gets through the reading somehow, swallows the lump in her throat and I start to play Amelia on Joni's guitar. I watch the TV screen and I just can't believe my eyes and I feel so moved and so raw. Maybe it's to do with such great love and the loss of those we love. It's nearly always hard when you lose someone. Or maybe it's to do with remembering that 14 year old girl who in 1968 listened to an album by an extraordinary, unknown Canadian woman singer and whose life was deeply changed as a consequence. Maybe it's about personal struggles with demons and edges and survival - all the things that Joni writes about - and there I am playing a guitar I saw Joni play when we were all much younger. But, as I watch the TV screen, I start to recognise that it's about all those things and much more. It's about this well not being so lonely anymore. Till August this year there just wasn't anyone I could walk up to and say 'Don't Interrupt the Sorrow' and they would instantly reply 'Darn Right.' There wasn't anyone who could sing every word of 'Twisted' like I could. I found dozens in the Full Moon bar late one steamy night. It has taken me 35 years to find you. And now I find I can't see the computer screen for my tears, again. I remember Andrea who I never knew and I cry some more and I wonder - could anything have made a difference? Mags wrote it so much better than I ever could in her piece The People Who Love Joni. Thank you for sending that piece, Mags. Inept I may be, but I can write and say Thank You Les Irvine and Thank You everyone else for just being out there and Thank You everyone at the UK Joni Party. I have waited so long to play those songs with other people and not on my own in my bedroom. I have waited so long for all this. Mags wrote 'with love and appreciation beyond any words I can write'. Me too. Anita xx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:46:31 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: things i like - vljc > there was a thread a while back on joni's slouching toward bethlehem, and > whether she should have set yeats' great poem at all. it's one of my > favorite joni songs, so you can guess my opinion. anyway, someone posted > 'the second coming' That was me, Patrick. I think the song is one of Joni's finest. And when she did it live, a real highlight. Jerry NP - Joan Baez - Where Are You Now, My Son ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:12:05 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds "It's not the end of a relationship or about denial or loss or anything that serious. It's about enjoying time spent with a lover and wanting it to continue." That's certainly a legitimate interpretation, and I'm sure that 99.9% of the population would agree with you & scoff at me and poke me with sticks & say I was full of crap. And I'll add that my take on CM was identical to yours at one time. But the more I discover Joni's duality, the more I look beyond the obvious and read between the lines to see the shadows amongst the light, even though I may be seeing hallucinations. Joni's such a fascinating songwriter to me...with TA & CM, there's such a contrast. TA opens the record with it's desolate starkness, yet its theme is basically a happy one - "I found someone to love today". And then this is followed by the joyful strains of CM, a song that's guaranteed to make you feel good with its sound, and its imagery of Christmas bells, rainbows, and the sun pouring in like butterscotch. It is a celebration of the moment and wishing that the moment stayed, and the fear that it might not. That little bit of dark doubt. Yin/yang. I would compare this opening 1-2 punch to the opening sequence of Court & Spark. It too opens with the promise of new love..."love came to my door with a sleeping roll & a madman's soul", and he sees through her to her doubts, sees her "mistrusting and still acting kind", and musically this song seems full of Joni's "chords of inquiry". Then that song is followed by the CM-like burst of joyous guitar in "Help Me", and lyrically it celebrates the joy of that new love but she's "worrying about the past" and has the same doubts. Loving the feeling of being in love, but not like she loves her freedom. To me it's the same duality, it's just a bit more magnified in this song than it is on CM. Again, just a possible take on all of this. I totally respect the fact that other folks interpret all of this in a different way. Like I say, it's what makes Joni such a fascinating study (and topic of discussion) as a writer. Bob NP: Gregg Cagno, "Mandolin Moon" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:19:55 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Tin Angel - and favorite song on Clouds poll Bob says: "I bet that if we polled the JMDL, we'd get votes for each song on the record as the "favorite song" - another Joni trademark." As you say Bob...let's do it! We did this extensive poll a number of years ago, I still have the results and it would be interesting to see how the JMDL of '03 stacks up. So to those who want to participate, just fill in the blanks & forward back to me privately. I'll tally 'em up and report back in a week or so. Feel free to leave some blanks, in case you don't have all her records. 1. Song To A Seagull - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:44:07 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Homework - Favorite song poll "I bet that if we polled the JMDL, we'd get votes for each song on the record as the "favorite song" - another Joni trademark." As you say, Bob...let's do it! We did this a number of years ago & it yielded some interesting results, which I still have. Let's see how the "Class of '03" stacks up. Whoever is interested in taking part in this poll, just fill in the blanks (feel free to fill in some or all as the spirit moves you) and send back to me privately, either here or at SCJoniguy@aol.com. I'll report the results in a week or so. NEWBIES & LURKERS especially - speak up & let your voice be heard! All responses will remain confidential (unless of course you post it back to joni@smoe.org!) Song To A Seagull: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Clouds: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Ladies Of The Canyon: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Blue: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - For The Roses: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Court & Spark: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Miles of Aisles: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Hissing Of Summer Lawns: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Hejira: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Mingus (the 'raps' don't count): Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Shadows & Light: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Wild Things Run Fast: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Dog Eat Dog: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Night Ride Home: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Turbulent Indigo: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - (I'm intentionally leaving out Hits & Misses) Taming The Tiger: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Both Sides Now: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - Travelogue: Most Favorite - Least Favorite - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:22:12 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni lyric used in book text -- NJC Kenny B writes: > a fair amount of reference to Joni > including a chapter entitled, "Joni Mitchell, the Woman He > Loved Too Much." I think all our biographies include that chapter, Kenny! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:38:25 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Homework - Favorite song poll > "I bet that if we polled the > > Song To A Seagull: > Most Favorite -I Had A King > Least Favorite - Sisotowbell Lane > > Clouds: > Most Favorite - That Song About The Midway > Least Favorite - Love them all > > Ladies Of The Canyon: > Most Favorite - Rainy Night House > Least Favorite - The Arrangement > > Blue: > Most Favorite - The Last Time I Saw Richard > Least Favorite - Love them all > > For The Roses: > Most Favorite - Cold Blue Steel And Sweet Fire > Least Favorite - You've got to be kidding! > > Court & Spark: > Most Favorite - Free Man In Paris > Least Favorite - Help Me > > Miles of Aisles: > Most Favorite - Rainy Night House > Least Favorite - Jericho > > Hissing Of Summer Lawns: > Most Favorite - Don't Interrupt The Sorrow > Least Favorite - Love them all. > > Hejira: > Most Favorite - Song For Sharon > Least Favorite - Furry Sings The Blues > > Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: > Most Favorite - Paprika Plains > Least Favorite - Talk To Me > > Mingus (the 'raps' don't count): > Most Favorite - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat > Least Favorite - Every other song > > Shadows & Light: > Most Favorite - Amelia > Least Favorite - Anything from Mingus > > Wild Things Run Fast: > Most Favorite - Chinese Cafi > Least Favorite - Be Cool > > Dog Eat Dog: > Most Favorite - Smokin' (Empty, Try Another) > Least Favorite - The Three Great Stimulants > > Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm: > Most Favorite - The Beat Of Black Wings > Least Favorite - Dancin' Clown > > Night Ride Home: > Most Favorite - Slouching Toward Bethlehem > Least Favorite - The Windfall (Everything For Nothing) > > Turbulent Indigo: > Most Favorite - The Magdalene Laundries > Least Favorite - Sex Kills > > (I'm intentionally leaving out Hits & Misses) > > Taming The Tiger: > Most Favorite - Man From Mars > Least Favorite - Love Puts On A New Face > > Both Sides Now: > Most Favorite - At Last > Least Favorite - Sometimes I'm Happy > > Travelogue: > Most Favorite - Amelia > Least Favorite - God Must Be A Boogie Man Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:45:10 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds Muller writes: > I'm sure that 99.9% of > the population would agree with you & scoff at me and poke > me with sticks & > say I was full of crap. I am so glad to hear that it's not just me. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:49:28 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Homework - Favorite song poll > Song To A Seagull: > Most Favorite - Cactus Tree > Least Favorite - Pirates of Penance > > Clouds: > Most Favorite - Chelsea Morning > Least Favorite - I Think I Understand > > Ladies Of The Canyon: > Most Favorite - Circle Game > Least Favorite - Blue Boy > > Blue: > Most Favorite - A Case of You > Least Favorite - Carey > > For The Roses: > Most Favorite - For the Roses > Least Favorite - You Turn Me On > > Court & Spark: > Most Favorite - Same Situation > Least Favorite - Raised on Robbery > > Miles of Aisles: > Most Favorite - Love or Money > Least Favorite - Last time I saw Richard (waitress voice) > > Hissing Of Summer Lawns: > Most Favorite - Harry's House/Centerpiece > Least Favorite -Shades of Scartlett > > Hejira: > Most Favorite - Amelia > Least Favorite - Furry Sings the Blues > > Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: > Most Favorite - > Least Favorite - > > Mingus (the 'raps' don't count): > Most Favorite - Chair in the Sky > Least Favorite - Pork Pie Hat (Don't like the lyrics) > > Shadows & Light: > Most Favorite - Amelia > Least Favorite - Why Do Fools Fall in Love > > Wild Things Run Fast: > Most Favorite - Moon at the Window > Least Favorite - Ladies' Man > > Dog Eat Dog: > Most Favorite - 3 Great Stimulants > Least Favorite - Tax Free > > Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm: > Most Favorite - A Bird That Whistles > Least Favorite - Dancin' Clown > > Night Ride Home: > Most Favorite - Passion Play > Least Favorite - Ray's Dad's Cadillac > > Turbulent Indigo: > Most Favorite - Magdalene Laundries > Least Favorite - Sex Kills > > (I'm intentionally leaving out Hits & Misses) > > Taming The Tiger: > Most Favorite - Man from Mars > Least Favorite - Facelift > > Both Sides Now: Can't bear to listen to it, but I hate both Joni Covers > Most Favorite - > Least Favorite - > > Travelogue: > Most Favorite - Hejira > Least Favorite - Sex Kills (it's a stupid song and desrves to be on the worst list everytime it appears. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:01:32 -0500 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: Homework - Favorite song poll I do own DJRD, just haven't listened to it in about 25 years. Maybe I'll give it a spin sometime soon. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Richard Flynn > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:49 AM > To: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com; Bobsart48@aol.com > Cc: joni@smoe.org; owner-joni@jmdl.com; rsc1@humboldt.edu > Subject: RE: Homework - Favorite song poll > > > > Song To A Seagull: > > Most Favorite - Cactus Tree > > Least Favorite - Pirates of Penance > > > > Clouds: > > Most Favorite - Chelsea Morning > > Least Favorite - I Think I Understand > > > > Ladies Of The Canyon: > > Most Favorite - Circle Game > > Least Favorite - Blue Boy > > > > Blue: > > Most Favorite - A Case of You > > Least Favorite - Carey > > > > For The Roses: > > Most Favorite - For the Roses > > Least Favorite - You Turn Me On > > > > Court & Spark: > > Most Favorite - Same Situation > > Least Favorite - Raised on Robbery > > > > Miles of Aisles: > > Most Favorite - Love or Money > > Least Favorite - Last time I saw Richard (waitress voice) > > > > Hissing Of Summer Lawns: > > Most Favorite - Harry's House/Centerpiece > > Least Favorite -Shades of Scartlett > > > > Hejira: > > Most Favorite - Amelia > > Least Favorite - Furry Sings the Blues > > > > Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: > > Most Favorite - > > Least Favorite - > > > > Mingus (the 'raps' don't count): > > Most Favorite - Chair in the Sky > > Least Favorite - Pork Pie Hat (Don't like the lyrics) > > > > Shadows & Light: > > Most Favorite - Amelia > > Least Favorite - Why Do Fools Fall in Love > > > > Wild Things Run Fast: > > Most Favorite - Moon at the Window > > Least Favorite - Ladies' Man > > > > Dog Eat Dog: > > Most Favorite - 3 Great Stimulants > > Least Favorite - Tax Free > > > > Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm: > > Most Favorite - A Bird That Whistles > > Least Favorite - Dancin' Clown > > > > Night Ride Home: > > Most Favorite - Passion Play > > Least Favorite - Ray's Dad's Cadillac > > > > Turbulent Indigo: > > Most Favorite - Magdalene Laundries > > Least Favorite - Sex Kills > > > > (I'm intentionally leaving out Hits & Misses) > > > > Taming The Tiger: > > Most Favorite - Man from Mars > > Least Favorite - Facelift > > > > Both Sides Now: Can't bear to listen to it, but I hate both Joni Covers > > Most Favorite - > > Least Favorite - > > > > Travelogue: > > Most Favorite - Hejira > > Least Favorite - Sex Kills (it's a stupid song and desrves to be on the > worst list everytime it appears. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----------------------------------- > > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > > the views of the company. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:26:59 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Homework - Favorite song poll > > Song To A Seagull: > > Most Favorite -Marcie > > Least Favorite - Nathan La Franeer > > > > Clouds: > > Most Favorite - Both Sides Now > > Least Favorite - The Fiddle and the Drum > > > > Ladies Of The Canyon: > > Most Favorite - Conversation > > Least Favorite - Morning Morgantown > > > > Blue: > > Most Favorite - The Last Time I Saw Richard > > Least Favorite - Carey > > > > For The Roses: > > Most Favorite - Let The Wind Carry Me > > Least Favorite - Electricity > > Court & Spark: > > Most Favorite - Down to You > > Least Favorite - Raised on Robbery > > > > Miles of Aisles: > > Most Favorite - Woman of Heart and Mind > > Least Favorite - Carey > > > > Hissing Of Summer Lawns: > > Most Favorite - In France They Kiss on Main Street > > Least Favorite - Edith and the Kingpin > > > > Hejira: > > Most Favorite - Song For Sharon > > Least Favorite - Blue Motel Room > > > > Don Juan's Reckless Daughter: > > Most Favorite - > > Least Favorite - > > > > Mingus (the 'raps' don't count): > > Most Favorite - None > > Least Favorite - All of it. > > > > Shadows & Light: > > Most Favorite - > > Least Favorite - > > > > Wild Things Run Fast: > > Most Favorite -i > > Least Favorite - > > > > Dog Eat Dog: > > Most Favorite - Damn, that's tough. Fiction > > Least Favorite - Again, touch. Shiny Toys > > > Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm: > > Most Favorite -bleah > > Least Favorite - all of it > > > > Night Ride Home: > > Most Favorite - The Only Joy in Town > > Least Favorite - Ray's Dads Cadillac > > > > Turbulent Indigo: > > Most Favorite - Sunny Sunday > > Least Favorite - Borderline > > > > (I'm intentionally leaving out Hits & Misses) > > > > Taming The Tiger: > > Most Favorite - > > Least Favorite - > > > > Both Sides Now: > > Most Favorite - Least Favorite - > > > > Travelogue: > > Most Favorite - > > Least Favorite - mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:53:38 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: birthday (NJC) And happy birthday to Neil Young too! Charles Manson's too (but we won't celebrate that one too much). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:23:19 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Improving on Clouds To me, this song is closest to something like 'Conversation' where she's trying to convince herself that she wants something to happen. yes, she's trying to wake him up so he will stay (as you say, her closing line of 'Wake up, it's a Chelsea Morning!') is full of the exuberance of someone trying to block out the reality of the situation where she knows that he's not going to spend the day with her. And it's a beautiful day, in her eyes, despite the traffic jam, the rubbish in the streets and pigeons everywhere (which in a big city are a real problem!). She's being overly positive here, not joyful. Yes, full of sunny chords but there is a hint of desperation. It's the plaintive 'oh' in 'oh won't you stay, we'll put on the day...' that speaks reams to me about her fragile plea. Not wanting to beg him to stay but convincing him otherwise. I love this song. It's one of those happy and sad songs that she makes so well (Big Yellow Taxi being one of the others). The joy that we hear and we understand on paper is only side swiped by the reality of the performer singing this song to her lover. She woke up and knew it was a brilliant day and she wants to spend it with him. The implication here is that he's still asleep (although how *anyone* can sleep through someone playing this song next to you is a mystery! :)) and probably has different plans. I dunno, that 's the brilliant thing about this list and Joni. Everything and everyone has their own interpretation on her songs. And let's not forget she's listing the things they *could* do and the things she would do if they stayed together that day. The song's timeline is only about 15 minutes from waking up to making toast in the 3rd verse. Maybe less. It's a song about wanting to do things together, not really about breaking up. Anyways Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- Mark or Travis wrote: > I suppose you can interpret it anyway you > > like, but to my thinking the most obvious one is > that she's trying > to > > convince a lover who's leaving her to stay. I > would say that > > qualifies as a 'dark' element. > > > > I do not get this at *all*. This is a song of pure > unadulterated joy. > When she is asking her companion to stay, it is > nothing so dire as her > begging him not to leave her. They're having a > wonderful time, > enjoying one another in every way and she doesn't > want it to end. She > doesn't want him to go home. That's it. It's not > the end of a > relationship or about denial or loss or anything > that serious. It's > about enjoying time spent with a lover and wanting > it to continue. > And at the close of the song she sings 'Wake up, > it's a Chelsea > morning' which tells me that he did spend the day > and the following > night with her and they had a lovely time. Maybe he > had things to do > that day but she talked him into putting them off so > they could spend > the day together. Where is the melancholy? I don't > get it. ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:34:31 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: [none] Just listening online to WFUV's Neil Young Day (apparently it's his Birthday and they seem to disagree on his age - one dj says 60 the other says 58) but anyway his current album has a song in it which is acoustic and the intro does sound like it is the beginning to 'Sex Kills' acoustic version that Joni did on The Late Show in 1994 when she came over to London to promote the album. What is this song called? Anyone? It sounds great especially the whole open tuned guitar. Might actually buy this album... Much Joni Jamie Zoob ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:37:55 -0000 From: "TheWizardOfIs" Subject: Re: birthday (NJC) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Kimerer" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 5:53 PM Subject: birthday (NJC) > And happy birthday to Neil Young too! > > Charles Manson's too (but we won't celebrate that one too much). Personally, I know which one I'd rather listen to attempting to sing. AMO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:43:05 +0000 From: "rflynn@frontiernet.net" Subject: Re: Neil was born on November 12, 1945, so he's 58. "Bandit" is the only "acoustic" song on Greendale. I like the album, others don't. Richard Quoting Jamie Zubairi : > Just listening online to WFUV's Neil Young Day > (apparently it's his > Birthday and they seem to disagree on his age - one dj > says 60 the other > says 58) but anyway his current album has a song in it > which is acoustic > and the intro does sound like it is the beginning to > 'Sex Kills' > acoustic version that Joni did on The Late Show in > 1994 when she came over to > London to promote the album. > > What is this song called? Anyone? It sounds great > especially the whole > open tuned guitar. Might actually buy this album... > > Much Joni > > > Jamie Zoob > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! > Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:43:30 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: [none] Just listening online to WFUV's Neil Young Day (apparently it's his Birthday and they seem to disagree on his age - one dj says 60 the other says 58) but anyway his current album has a song in it which is acoustic and the intro does sound like it is the beginning to 'Sex Kills' acoustic version that Joni did on The Late Show in 1994 when she came over to London to promote the album. What is this song called? Anyone? It sounds great especially the whole open tuned guitar. Might actually buy this album... Much Joni Jamie Zoob ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:46:02 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Nylon stockings Hi Ya'll, Nylon stockings... have you noticed how Joni sings about these in several songs? Can you think of any? So far I've thought of Boho Dance: "And finds a lady in a Paris dress with runs in her nylons." Help Me: "You dance with the lady with the hole in her stocking." There's a couple more that come to my mind, one about hanging up stockings on a bed post and another about dancing until her stockings are ruined or something like that... but I can't think of which songs they are in. If you know where these lines are or of any more lines with stockings in them, please, let me know. Thanks! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:00:55 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: Nylon stockings Hi There All I Want - she wrecks her stockings in a juke box dive (or dump depending which version you're reading). The Last Time I Had Dick (sorry couldn't resist!)- the waitress wears fishnet stockings. Judgment of The Moon and Stars - The women that he wanted hang their stockings on the bedposts of refinement Song To Sharon - she wore her Mama's nylons under her cowgirl jeans Also in JOTM&S (L'sT) - They aim the hoses on you, but I don't think this one counts! ;) Too Much Joni Jamie Zoob --- LCStanley7@aol.com wrote: > Hi Ya'll, > > Nylon stockings... have you noticed how Joni > sings about these in > several > songs? Can you think of any? So far I've thought > of Boho Dance: "And finds > a lady in a Paris dress with runs in her nylons." > Help Me: "You dance with > the lady with the hole in her stocking." There's a > couple more that come to > my mind, one about hanging up stockings on a bed > post and another about > dancing until her stockings are ruined or something > like that... but I can't > think > of which songs they are in. If you know where these > lines are or of any more > lines with stockings in them, please, let me know. > Thanks! > > Love, > Laura ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:52:16 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: birthday (NJC) "Personally, I know which one I'd rather listen to attempting to sing." Manson WAS in fact a singer/songwriter, and ironically hung out with Neil Young & The Beach Boys in California. Most recently, Guns 'n Roses covered one of his songs on their "Spaghetti Incident" and took some heat for generating royalty money for him. Bob NP: Clark Carlton, "Most of All" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:57:36 -0500 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Nylon stockings "Mama's nylons underneath my cowgirl jeans" - Song For Sharon (You can go the lyric search engine on the JMDL and type in "stockings" or "nylon"...) Bob NP: Mary Chapin Carpenter, "Almost Home" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:18:56 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Bruce on THOSL - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:31:46 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: hissing, yet again Listening to HOSL for the past few days and, yet again, I am so smitten. One of the wonderful things about Joni is that I discover new things all the time in her work. The songs on HOSL about various women -- so complex are the characterizations and the stories. Far from any standard feminist POV. Key line, I think: "It's the lady's choice." And Harry's House -- I finally understand this is about HARRY -- not the wife. (It's only taken me almost 30 years.) His reverie _ Centerpiece -- is not that of a man looking at his wife as a decorative accessory, but a sad reflection on what he thought was going to be a gilded future now turned into fool's gold. "Nothing's any good without you," he says. (A cry of love.) "Nothing's any good," she replies. (A cold retort.) Harry is the victim here. What a clear eye she has, Ms. Mitchell. No stock characters here. No easy targets. No cheap shots. There's so much on this record. So much. Bruce - ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:23:40 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts Wow! Nice job, McKay! Lama NP: the REALLY ROSIE cd, featuring songs by some New Yorker named Carole King to support Maurice Sendak's story Catherine McKay of Toronto, Ontario said, > Having read others' reactions > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:49:54 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: full mailbox, njc Hi If anybody tried emailing me and got it returned, please resend, I emptied the mailbox. Also can someone please send me todays' JMDL digest. Thanks Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:30:49 -0800 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts now njc Catherine writes: Hey, Gary - maybe we're twins separated at birth! That seems to be a pretty common jmdl phenomenon. Could be, Catherine! It sure jogged my memory when you mentioned "Tin Angel" being your first Joni-heard song. My story goes that after loving hearing Judy Collins sing "Both Sides Now" on the radio so much in high school, then buying the 45, and reading the writer's name "Joni Mitchell" under the song title. I had seen Judy in concert doing "Chelsea Morning" as well, and loved the song, but didn't realize it was also Joni's song. I remember going to Montgomery Ward and finding the :"Clouds" album there. I was mesmerized by the painting on the cover - I remember taking it home and immediately putting it on, and hearing those first notes of "Tin Angel." The song put me in the "zone" for what was to follow...and if I remember correctly it was soon after that, that I discovered Joni was playing Stratford so I had to have gotten the album in 1969, and I went to the local travel agency and purchased tickets for the show. Funny how a travel agency had tickets to a show like that at the time...a friend and I took the train to Stratford. And the next night was when we saw her and met her afterward at the Avon Theatre. (I believe it was you that was there too, right, Rick?) I still have the signed program. It's interesting, Joni signed her name a bit differently then, now people would probably think it was a fake. I do remember one of the people saying to her..."But Joni, all of your songs are so sad..." and she replied "Well, there's "Chelsea Morning..." and named a couple of others as I recall. From "Second Frets" again, there's a story she tells about "Chelsea" that many of you have probably already heard. It follows "Come to The Sunshine" and she says: "Well that's one morning, sunchine, love and rainbow song, and I have another, and it was written much later and in a different place. You see, a long time ago I purchased some stained glass windows that were about to be demolished because they were wrecking the house for unwed mothers that they were in. The unwed mothers were without (chuckles), of course. And I rescued them for $5.00 each. And took them back to a very peaceful place and set them up in my windows and every moning the sun came up, the rainbows came in. And then one day I moved to New York City, which is a very different place, very different circumstances for writing under, because it's noisy all the time. So I put my stained glass windows up, and I covered out all of the sky, which was about that much in one corner above a church; a postage stamp piece of sky; and I wrote a very different morning, rainbow, sunshine and love song, noisy as New York City." Best regards, Gary Detroit ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:23:54 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: pauline paprika plains (njc) Peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers? >>Congrats to Pauline for coming up with a winning entry in my Covers #46 >>contest. My guess was "Off Night Backstreet",> >>Pauline picked "Paprika Plains" > > >there's something particularly poignant about that. > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send a QuickGreet with MSN Messenger >http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:17:58 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: full mailbox, njc Laurent, All digests can be found at http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni/ The most recent one is at the bottom of the page. Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:07:44 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Re: CSN&Y VCDs Permavine > > There are two tracks wich I can't play: I guess Laurent sent his originals > > to > > me or at least copied them carefully (I think is easier to copy disc with > > files than audio ones, btw), so probably the failure is mine, but maybe we > > can > > delay this a little. I made myself a copy at the same time as making the permavine you got, and I can read it OK. Must be your player. So send it on and let the next recipient tell us. On VCD2 the track you can't play is: Down by the River from Big Sur. PS: I am looking for the "pink dress" permavined VCD when available. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:09:30 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: WOHAM moments There's a brunette with a heavy accent (Israeli?) who's appearing twice on WOHAM. Who is that meshougene? Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:11:22 -0500 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts This is but one example of why I love this list so much. There are many more, but today (when I read it, even though you sent it yesterday), Catherine, you get the gold star. Thanks a lot. Now I want to go home and listen to Clouds again for the zillionth time. Maggie -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:26 AM To: Jonilist Subject: Improving on "Clouds" - some more thoughts Having read others' reactions to Bob M's musings on "Clouds" and whether or not the order of songs could have been different, and whether or not "Just like me" might more appropriately belong, I went away and thought about this and almost turned the computer on last night to post something else, but thought better of it and decided maybe sleep was needed. So now I've had a chance to think it over and give "Clouds" another listen or two and I've changed my mind. And a good thing too - minds, like clothes, should be changed and cleaned frequently. If you want to view Joni's albums as song cycles, or plays, or novels, or what-have-you (and I always do), the the song order and the choices of songs is/are perfect. The beauty of seeing it this way is that you can fit everything into that particular framework. Yes, it's artificial, but so is art. So, here we go. It's gonna be a long one, so get yourself a drink, a Martini, milk and cookies, another coffee, who cares? put your feet up and relax. Clouds was the first Joni album I ever had. "Tin Angel" was the first Joni song I ever heard. From the opening notes,single notes in a minor key about new-found love, I was hooked. I was 16 and I was a Joni Mitchell fan. No turning back. You know it's not going to work out. You can tell by the sadness of it. She's found someone to love but he's an angel made of tin and tin bends and breaks too easily. Never mind if Tin Angel is the name of a cafe or a club; this guy is the tin angel. He's going to hurt her. He's going to dump her (the bastard!) or maybe she's going to dump him because he turns out not to be who she was hoping he would be. Never mind all that. Right now she's in love - heartache can wait. "Chelsea Morning" is the ebullience of a new day and a new love. It is full of colour and sound and light and a total sensory experience filtered through happiness. It is the mundane made beautiful, transformed by coloured glass into jewel-light, full of honey and oranges, butterscotch and incense. It is present, both as a tense and as a gift. It's the here and now. Next comes "I don't know where I stand". Love is still new. The girl is feeling uncertain about the whole thing. She's still in the present tense but her mind is wandering to the future, even though she's trying to hold it back in the present. This song reminds me of "A midsummer night's dream". It's so full of beautiful summer's-evening imagery. But the guy is gone - he's in another place and all they have is the telephone to connect them. (And you know he's not going to stick around, it's not going to work out.) "That song about the midway" brings you to Joni still in the here-and-now, but now she's looking back. Now she can look at the guy (I don't even care if it's the same guy - it probably isn't, but sequentially, it works) with a sort of admiration. The tin angel has become a devil wearing wings. He's a rambler and a gambler and a sweet-talking ladies' man and she wishes she could be more like him, but she's tired of it all. She goes to the fortune-teller ("Roses Blue") who predicts nothing but doom. Only laughter can save you from sinking under, and eighteen bucks goes up in smoke. "The gallery" is a litany of ladies this man (the bastard!) has loved and left, while she, apparently, is left behind to dust the portraits and collect his mail. She's sad and sorry but not ashamed. She sneers at him a bit ("Now you're flying back this way like some lost homing piegon") but ultimately she can't be cruel to him - still, she reminds him that she could be if she really wanted to, so he'd better be grateful for her gentleness. "I think I understand" moves away from the love affair into dealing with fear and despair. It could be despair over lost love, but it's more than that. She's facing the black hole of despair, the slough of despond. But she's finding a way through it - you have to pick your way across the stones, but these stones lie on sinking sand, so you have to be careful not to lose your step. When the voices call you back to troubled times and forests block the light, bring back the light of good memories of a brighter time, 'cause, honey, that may be all you've got. You could argue that the next two songs don't really fit this song cycle, but then you have to realize what comes next. "Songs to aging children come" reflects back on the light and magic of "Chelsea Morning" and "I don't know where I stand", while making the point that this girl is getting older now. The roses from "Roses Blue" put in another appearance but now they're dying. "The fiddle and the drum" recalls some of the despair of "I think I understand" but now it is global and not personal. Will we always be at war and are our friends doomed to become our enemies? "Both sides now" brings it all together, from the concrete (more or less - clouds are vapour, after all, not something you can grab hold of), to the cliche of love complete with its moons and Junes, to the ups and downs of life itself. Clouds can be beautiful but they also turn nasty and dump rain and snow on everyone. The ferris wheels and circus crowds recall "That song about the midway". Love is a fairy tale, an illusion. The starry-eyed girl has become a disillusioned woman who has decided it's better not to give yourself away. Ultimately she has realized that things aren't as simple as she once thought. Now all she knows is that she doesn't know anything. Just like me? ;) p.S. Thanks to Muller for having raised this whole issue. ===== Catherine Toronto --------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #562 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)