From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #542 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, November 2 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 542 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: just a facet SJC ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra; Metis (SJC) ["Timothy Spong" ] Re: just a facet SJC [Emiliano ] Re: Joni : In Other Words [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Who do we tell? NJC [LCStanley7@aol.com] re: just a fan ["Paul Mepschen" ] Re: Sweet Bird [LCStanley7@aol.com] Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra; Metis NJC [Doug ] amelia/buckley (SJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Who do we tell? NJC ["Steve Polifka" ] Metis njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Today in History: November 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: November 2 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Oh my God - GREAT Joni in new movie [Susan Glumac ] RE: Who do we tell? NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Beating the Covers ["Paul Castle" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:09:04 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: just a facet SJC Hi Laura, As far as being OUT goes, I've always been nothing other than myself. Niether hide nor deny, as a late friend of mine used to put it. So in my mind, that facet was always shining. At what point do you have to be OUT? Do we tell the world-everyone we meet? Or do we just live our lives, love our lovers, and not look for acknowlegement from others? (I can't decide/ I don't know Which way to go The more you learn/ the less you know Which way to go Some follow blind and never know Which way to go To lead you need some place to go...) As with everything, (I think) we have to find our own way. This is the lesson I'm so focused on right now in my life. It's been a struggle that I've always been engaged in- that wanting someone to tell me what is what - Truth- Fiction...the meaning of life (maybe it IS Monty Python!) :-0 The journey is everything, right? The most interesting thought I've had is in regards to borderlines is that there is no US and Them. It is just US. We're all in this together. It's a sobering thought. Everything touches something. Everything affects everything else. Even science touches on it, though it is focused on the physical plane. I rather hate the fact that humanity likes to inflict misery on everything it touches- especially itself. In the middle of this Continent In the middle of our time on earth We perceive one another Stay in Touch We should Stay in Touch... Thanks, Joni... Steve, running with a way too serious tangent again! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: Re: just a facet SJC > Steve wrote: > > > I am. I just am. It's just a facet on my diamond- like being a musician, > > writer, friend, sci-fi fan, a son, a brother, an artist, a dreamer, a > > hopeful in a room like this, an instigator- there's so many things I am. > > However, sometimes I have found it neccessary to be OUT and make it known. > > I really like your post Steve. One thing strikes me here... if it is > a facet of your diamond like all these other things, then it will be shining > beautifully just like the other facets, always out. I understand what you are > saying though. Sometimes we have to stand up for our various facets... not > everybody appreciates them and some try to put mud on them. Joni is one I > admire along these lines; she definitely stands up for the facets of her beautiful > diamond in her songs and interviews. > > Love and joy, > Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:00:10 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra; Metis (SJC) On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, "David Rahall" wrote, Re: "Prowler" and Davis/Slick (LJC) > >Speaking of a crowd of musicians hanging out, both Grace and Joni appear on >David Crosby's "If I Could Only Remember My Name," and both of their photos >grace the inner "whatchamacallit" of the gatefold LP (along with Graham >Nash, Neil Young, Jerry Garcia, Paul Kantner, Jack Casady, Jorma Kaukonen, >Phil Lesh, Mickey Hart, David Geffen, and others). I could be wrong, but I >think Paul Kantner refers to this bunch as the Planet Earth Rock and Roll >Orchestra (not to be confused with his later album that has that title). > Comment: The name "Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra" generates the acronym "PERRO," which is Spanish for "DOG." I imagine such an assemblage was not a "dog," nor did it bark up the wrong tree. Comparisons with Bonzo Dog Band or Three Dog Night, anybody? Among the articles published on Nov. 1 of past years was: > >2000: "Beyond the star-making machine" - Toronto Globe and Mail > (Biography) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=550 ... and in it is reference to Don Freed's "Metis heritage" (I do not have access to an acute-accent mark to put over the "e"), a term which has come up in other articles from the archives, but without definition. Is "Metis" the name of an Indian tribe, or is it a local term for a person of mixed Indian/Native American/First Nations/(you name it) and Caucasian/European/"white" ancestry? Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded its 2MB storage limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:53:35 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC Hi, hi, hi! This is a funny thing to talk about! First, I don't remember any detail about any soccer club, but in fact Elton owned Wratford s.o.l.o. I remember some photos of Elton & Rod disguised as soc. players, and an impression about hearing they must have played many matchs together. Funnier sure it was that time when Rod had his time as "idol for juveniles", with that "Do you think I'm sexy?" (Please, please don't answer this!). Well, as you may recall the album wore as title "Blondes have more fun", and bad tongues told that Elton, maybe feeling some abandoned by the machote Rod, comissioned to put bign signs reading "But brunettes have more money" on Rod's shows! I agree , that staaaandard album is *sappy* (as his was his "Your song"). But, BTW, I feel intrigued about albums being promoted in TV. I see commercial tv on rare times (and always with forward button at hand), but I always feel surprised 'bout the *huge* number of albums being publicized on tv's big time, even weird ones from totally new singers! ah! Please forgive me Sherelle if I was excessively clear about what I think about this boy: he sure has a great voice, but He ain't go no no no class! All the best & Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Help Me, Van Morrison, Somewhere over the mountains sorry, no Joni in it! ps: Bob, I really LOL about J. Cacavas! This poor boy! - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: ; CC: Enviado: sabado, 01 de noviembre de 2003 17:50 Asunto: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC > "It's interesting to see that if what you are saying is correct, how > differently the message is perceived. " > > Didn't Rod & Elton own a soccer team at some point? I think they're mates > from way back, and Sting too. My take on it is that Rod's just having a go at > them for fun, plus maybe trying to stir up some free publicity. > > Really, he has nothing to be unhappy about; after all his AWFUL sappy > standards CD from last year sold 4 million copies and now he's made another one! I'm > sure his success is due to all the TV advertising, how many other records get > advertised on TV? > > Bob > > NP: Eric Adcock - Blue Overall ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:34:15 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Harmonies, NRH and Blue Marian wrote "Joni has written quite a few songs with unusual harmonies (most notably S&L, which will go in the player after I finish the other CGRs CDs). I love that about her - the unusual harmonies in some of her songs" I agree about the unusual harmonies- and some of the not so unusual ones, too. NRH is an album full of harmonies. Blue, by way of contrast, had almost no harmonies. A little background harmony on This Flight Tonight (Good by baby, baby good bye, ooh ooh love is blind"), and some counterpoint type stuff in two or three part harmony on Carey. That's it. A record based solely on incredible melodies, near perfect lyrics and one or two superb instrumental accompaniments per song. How wondrous is that ? Bobsart Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:43:19 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! -- NJC Murphy adds: "And that's probably the finest group of people to work on this project since Thomas Jefferson compiled Volume I alone." Thanks buddy! They're certainly some of my favorite folks! :~) Bob NP: The Pete Barenbregge/Frank Russo Group, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:45:24 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: RE: a perfect world, not NJC Mark wrote: Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and as long as there are people who who choose to judge us by these things and as long as some of those people have some power to affect our lives, being silent or pretending the differences don't exist is only going to do us harm. OOoooooo never be silent... never pretend. Never see through the eyes of those who judge. The truth sets people free! Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:04:36 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni : In Other Words Hi everyone, Well, one fun thing about November (are there any others ??) is Joni's birthday, on the 7th. As you know, she's turnin' 60 this year, the ol' gal she is, and that's no laughin' matter, eh! To ease the pain, a group of us got together a couple of months ago and put together a book of the alternate Joni lyrics that spang up on the List this summer. The book is done - and we're very pleased with the final product. It contains 36 entries from 22 contributors, spread accross 7 countries on 4 continents. Impressive! The book was culled from cyberspace, touched up, printed up, wrapped up with love, then sent to Joni's management company in Vancouver in mid-October. I spoke to them by phone beforehand; they were brief but courteous, and assured me she would get our gift package. That was a relief! The package includes our book and Ashara's video, which features a clip of the ``Cease Interfering With the Sadness`` (DITS) number, as performed at Jonifest 2003. So, If any of you would like an electronic copy of the book manuscript (in Word), please contact me off-list and I will be happy to click one over to you. Fair warning - it is a 90-page document (190K) that includes a JPEG, so it could take a few moments to download, for those of you with dial-up modems. I must say, this project was a great learning experience for all, and it was also great fun working with 22 dedicated authors and editors! If you haven't already done so - now would be the time to remind your favourite radio hosts why November 7th is such a special day. Looking forward to Friday, Michael in Quebec NP: Lhasa de Sela - The Living Road ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 01:34:18 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: just a facet SJC Hi, Steve! Yes! Yes! Yes! How beautiful to read your post: *********We're all in this together********** I must say I enjoy reading each and everyone's posts about this thread: ***********United we stand**************** Yours: Emiliano - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Steve Polifka" Para: ; Enviado: domingo, 02 de noviembre de 2003 1:09 Asunto: Re: just a facet SJC > Hi Laura, > As far as being OUT goes, I've always been nothing other than myself. > Niether hide nor deny, as a late friend of mine used to put it. So in my > mind, > that facet was always shining. > At what point do you have to be OUT? Do we tell the world-everyone we > meet? > Or do we just live our lives, love our lovers, and not look for > acknowlegement from others? > > (I can't decide/ I don't know > Which way to go > The more you learn/ the less you know > Which way to go > Some follow blind and never know > Which way to go > To lead you need some place to go...) > > As with everything, (I think) we have to find our own way. This is the > lesson I'm so focused on > right now in my life. It's been a struggle that I've always been engaged in- > that wanting > someone to tell me what is what - Truth- Fiction...the meaning of life > (maybe it IS Monty Python!) :-0 > The journey is everything, right? The most interesting thought I've had > is in regards to borderlines > is that there is no US and Them. It is just US. We're all in this together. > It's a sobering thought. > Everything touches something. Everything affects everything else. > Even science touches on it, though it is focused on the physical plane. > I rather hate the fact that humanity likes to inflict misery on > everything it touches- especially itself. > > In the middle of this Continent > In the middle of our time on earth > We perceive one another > Stay in Touch > We should Stay in Touch... > > Thanks, Joni... > > Steve, > running with a way too serious tangent again! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:15:37 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni : In Other Words Michael writes: << I must say, this project was a great learning experience for all, and it was also great fun working with 22 dedicated authors and editors! >> And it was great working with you, Michael. Without you, the thesaurus Joni project never would have seen the brightness of morning*. Thanks! --Bob * light of day ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:53:06 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Who do we tell? NJC Hi Steve! You asked: > At what point do you have to be OUT? Do we tell the world-everyone we > meet? That's up to you. As for me, well, for instance, I'm a guitarist, but I don't tell everybody I meet that I am. It just comes out naturally sometimes... and sometimes it doesn't come out and that is natural too. If I went around telling everybody, it would seem unnatural to me. I like it when people I meet, as I get to know them just tell me about themselves naturally. Like this or that means something to me, and I want you to know... that sort of thing. I love learning more and more about my friends, and I like it when they are genuinely interested in learning more about me. I'm a pretty "out" sort of a person when I get beyond my shyness. I, like anybody, have many facets to my diamond. Some are controversial regardless of the way I would have society think or not think. I guess the most controversial facet of my life is that I'm an alcoholic. I don't go out of my way to keep that facet quiet. Maybe I should be more quiet... Some people REALLY don't understand. Just the other day, a close friend of mine said to me that she was surprised I wasn't over my "insecurities" yet when she found out I was still struggling not to take a drink. GOD!!!! Alcoholism is in my genetic make up... like it isn't going away any time soon. I laugh when I think of her comment now, but when I heard it, I was floored. I didn't react because I know that doesn't do any good. I responded gently to educate her, but I don't know if it got through. Time will tell. I did my part though! In years past, I would have taken her comment personally and thought maybe I do need to get over these "insecurities", like maybe there is something wrong with me for not being able to control my drinking. There's nothing wrong with me! It's all in the plan for my life. It's just the way I am. Before I was okay with being an alcoholic, I would have taken on my judges' misperceptions which would have only lead me to self destruct... to drink. Thank God for that anonymous group I'm involved with where we are all just people as diverse as the stars! We are a very very mixed bag, but we are all equals and treat each other that way. There is something good in being anonymous... that is probably why X appeals so much to me. I've seen it work. I guess the point is, if you tell people something about yourself that is controversial (and shouldn't be!!), you take a risk. I've been shunned many times by people I've told I'm an alcoholic, and I've been treated very cruelly sometimes. At other times, people have embraced me and grown closer to me and even admired me for being honest. Our world is very diverse, and all we can do is love, even the ignorant who are far from tolerant. If I'm wondering if I should tell somebody something, I try ask myself "why am I telling so and so this?" It's got to be out of love or it isn't going to change the world for the better. Yours, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 03:08:50 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: re: just a fan Mack writes: "Violence begets violence' I don't recall proposing some kind of violent revolt against the heterosexual world. Mack also writes: "It (violence against gay people, (Paul) is the result of ignorance and hate I would put forth and that is why I feel education is so important. I fully support hate crime legislation but I don't feel that two wrongs make a right." This is more serious -- what two wrongs? In this case, there is one wrong -- the wrong is the fact that queer people get hurt, beaten up, bashed, raped and what have you. What do you mean by two wrongs? What second wrong is there -- the gay community hasn't even begon to defend itself? Matthew Shepard's father wanted the dead penalty for the murderers of his son. That would be wrong -- but nobody is asking for that kind of reactionay response. I would make no difference as long as the society we live in is structurally oppressive of queer people. I don't know in what community you live, mack. I myself live in the netherlands, one of the most liberal countries in the world, no doubt. But my heart goes out to all those people who are not that lucky -- who did not choose the family they live in, let alone the school they go to, the town they grow up in. It breaks my heart that so many young gay boys and lesbian girls, teenagers, feel it is better to take your own life than to face the consequences of not being 'normal'. that is, i think, what this debate is about. It is my view that we should not adjust to a social order that has outlawed us - -- we have to replace that social order by one that no longer oppresses anyone on the basis of sexual identity. Perhaps, in such a society, sexual identity can be a choice we make, instead of something essentialized in such a way that makes us think that we are the way we are born. Do you believe that everything we are is already determined genetically? No, we are like everything the product of society. And that is why we can change and make choices. I have no problem with the heterosexuals -- some of my best friends are straight (pun intended). what I have a problem with is that straight people think it's the most normal thing in the world to say a thing like this: "a month or two ago i met a gay man, who was totally different to most i have met. in fact, that's not the right way to put it - he was just a helluva nice person" now I rest my case. peace, paul of the netherlands - ---------------------------------- we will push on into that mystery, and it will push right back, and there are worse things than that -- dar williams: after all --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:09:37 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Sweet Bird In a message dated 11/1/03 5:58:49 PM Central Standard Time, polifkas@milwaukee.tec.wi.us writes: > The journey is everything, right? The most interesting thought I've had > is in regards to borderlines > is that there is no US and Them. It is just US. We're all in this together. > It's a sobering thought. > Everything touches something. Everything affects everything else. > Even science touches on it, though it is focused on the physical plane. > I rather hate the fact that humanity likes to inflict misery on > everything it touches- especially itself. This REALLY reminds me of Joni's song Sweet Bird which sweet Kevin told me to listen to recently when I told him I just bought The Hissing of Summer Lawns. "Out on some borderline, some mark of in between." I've been meditating on this song for hours. I've wondered, was she laying on a beach, between the land and the sun, turning golden? I've woken up vanishing before after laying in the sun for a long time. This time we have, our youth, really is "briefer than a falling star." Time does go on and seems to be laughing. The last part of the song... "Guesses at most. Guesses based on what each set of time and change is touching." Ours are guesses that are rooted in what this set of time and change is touching. It's all a guess like this. Everything I write is a guess like this. My guess is that society is in the birthing process so there's bound to be pain. But, the outcome is very hopeful. We've got to look beyond and see the sweetness in the bird. Love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:13:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC "BTW, I feel intrigued about albums being promoted in TV" It's an interesting thing...traditionally the records that get adverts on TV are the Boxcar Willies and Zamfirs and Richard Claydermans and Slim Whitmans, all of which suck tremendously, just like Rod's crappy standards thing. It just proves the power of TV, I guess if you drum it into people's heads enough, they'll think that they just have to call with that credit card because operators are standing by. And Rod's CD sells for $18.99 PLUS S&H! That's ridiculous! I'll add that I don't watch much TV. My wife, a very bright woman, likes to watch SoapTV while she's grading papers, and she's nice enough to call me in when Courtney has a scene in General Hospital since I have a major crush on her. The point is NOT my crush on Courtney but that the record company puts their ad on SoapTV which sort of is a dead giveaway for the type of person they're trying to draw. Emiliano also added: "ps: Bob, I really LOL about J. Cacavas! This poor boy!" Oh, I know I probably shouldn't have said that, hopefully it won't come back to haunt me. Thanks to Google, I've already had one artist google their name and read my uncomplimentary write-up about their cover in the archives, and they actually apologized to me for recording it! Bob NP: Marc Ducret Trio, "God Must Be A Boogie Man" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:49:14 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC Muller writes: << Thanks to Google, I've already had one artist google their name and read my uncomplimentary write-up about their cover in the archives, and they actually apologized to me for recording it! >> Ha! Maybe Rod Stewart will Google himself next! And then he'll start publicly dissing you and calling you Loretta! Better yet, maybe he'll apologize for his latest album. I also don't get the attraction for the Rod Stewart covers album. (I actually know two people who have it and like it. One is a family member, so nothing can be done.) I heard a little bit of it and I was horrified! I don't claim to have the world's best taste in anything, and I often like tacky stuff in all its forms, but this album is beyond any redemption. At least "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" had a little of a bit of a sense of humor to it. And it came at a time when disco was huge and even the Stones were cashing in on it. But this new Rod Stewart? Barf-ola! Where is the man's artistic integrity? I know it's been decades since he's done anything good, but I once really liked him and his early- to mid-career stuff. And to think I used to love to say "Wake up, Maggie, I think I got something to say to you" in a Jackie Mason voice when I phone our own Maggie. Now . . . I don't know. Just as well, she's probably sick of it anyway. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:50:31 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra; Metis NJC The Metis are a mix of the early French settlers and Native Indians, mostly in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Doug Timothy Spong wrote: > > > ... and in it is reference to Don Freed's "Metis heritage" (I do not > have access to an acute-accent mark to put over the "e"), a term which > has come up in other articles from the archives, but without > definition. Is "Metis" the name of an Indian tribe, or is it a local > term for a person of mixed Indian/Native American/First Nations/(you > name it) and Caucasian/European/"white" ancestry? > > Tim Spong > Dover, Del., U.S.A. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has > exceeded its 2MB storage limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:08:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Planet Earth Rock and Roll Orchestra; Metis (SJC) --- Timothy Spong wrote: > Among the articles published on Nov. 1 of past > years was: > > > >2000: "Beyond the star-making machine" - Toronto > Globe and Mail > > (Biography) > > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=550 > > > ... and in it is reference to Don Freed's "Metis > heritage" (I do not have > access to an acute-accent mark to put over the "e"), > a term which has come > up in other articles from the archives, but without > definition. Is "Metis" > the name of an Indian tribe, or is it a local term > for a person of mixed > Indian/Native American/First Nations/(you name it) > and > Caucasian/European/"white" ancestry? A Metis is someone who is part Native (etc as above) and part "white". I always thought the word itself came from the French "Moitie" (again accent on the e) which means "half", but I could be mistaken. http://www.metisnation.ca/DEFINITION/home.html One famous Metis - Louis Riel, hanged as a traitor by the Canadian gov't in 1885, now considered a hero, and with many schools, parks & buildings named after him, as well as a coffee house that Joni played at once upon a time. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:17:26 EST From: HOOPSJOHN1@aol.com Subject: Re: and you thought joni was cranky no, actually, i never did feel that way about her at all. she is honest, she does her things her way, she changes her mind when sh comes up with what she thinks is a better way of doing things, she takes high risks for the sake of experience and the hope for wisdom. if this makes her cranky, then God bless the cranks in the world. peace Noel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:30:02 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: just a fan njc Paul, please remember to label your posts with njc. First of all Paul I would assert that it is you that has become defensive, somehow seeing me as the enemy in this debate, as you call it. I was stating that I find cloisterization of homosexuals irritating to me personally and I stated that I, personally, don't choose to live in that kind of a world. You have turned the writing into a personal crusade against the world as it is. Us against them and apparently that is how you see it. Remember, I am homosexual as well. > This is more serious -- what two wrongs? - --Since you choose to take this rancorous tone I will respond to that. Do you feel as if your anger is right? Past injustices do not make the heterosexual world the enemy. There are individuals that are to blame, not mankind itself. If you choose to live angry, militant, with a chip on your shoulder, that is your choice. You are welcome to it. I cannot see how that makes you much different from the ones about which you write. In this case, there is one wrong -- > the wrong is the fact that queer people get hurt, beaten up, bashed, raped and > what have you. - --How you took anything I said and turned it into this is beyond me. If these are your feelings, that is okay and I welcome you to express them but please do not try, which is what you are doing, to write that I am advocating such things. I don't know in what community you live, mack. - --I grew up and lived most of my life in Texas Paul, which I would put forth is quite more difficult for homosexuals than anything you have encountered. Thus, I surely don't need information from you on the difficulties facing homosexuals. I have faced discrimination in many ways that you could not imagine and even went through a very difficult time when my closest friend no longer wished to be so after finding out I was homosexual. And still, I don't find the attitude that we MUST fight to accomplish what we want any viable kind of answer. who did not > choose the family they live in - --I don't believe anyone does that, do they Paul? It breaks my heart that so many young gay boys and lesbian girls, > teenagers, feel it is better to take your own life than to face the > consequences of not being 'normal'. that is, i think, what this debate is > about. - --And what is your solution to that Paul? You have written nothing that would even approach a solution to that problem other militant reactionary anger. > It is my view that we should not adjust to a social order that has outlawed us > -- we have to replace that social order by one that no longer oppresses anyone > on the basis of sexual identity. - --That is true and that is done by example and legislation Paul. some of my best friends are > straight (pun intended). what I have a problem with is that straight people > think it's the most normal thing in the world to say a thing like this: > "a month or two ago i met a gay man, who was totally different to most i have > met. in fact, that's not the right way to put it - he was just a helluva nice > person" - --Those are Ron's words, not mine, and I didn't find them offensive in the least. I can read that you have hurt in yourself from your homosexuality and from the response you have received in the world. I do as well but refuse to allow that to turn my insides into bitterness towards the rest of the world that is not homosexual. You have taken my words and turned them into a personal crusade against the inequities in the world against you and others. I feel for you and hope that, in time, you will feel better about this world than you do now. I wish you the best. My last words on the subject. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:49:48 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: amelia/buckley (SJC) Someone posted about Betty Buckley's show in NYC where she did Amelia. This I would really love to hear. I'm sure she did a great job with it. I'm a big fan of Betty's -- think she has great taste in song selection. And a terrific talent for conveying the emotional content of a tune. On one of her CDs she did Mary Chapin Carpenter's "C'mon, C'mon" (a GREAT song), and it was stunning. She is also a super Sondheim interpreter. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 00:13:11 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: Who do we tell? NJC ----- Original Message ----- From: LCStanley7@aol.com To: polifkas@milwaukee.tec.wi.us Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Who do we tell? NJC Hi Steve! You asked: At what point do you have to be OUT? Do we tell the world-everyone we meet? That's up to you. As for me, well, for instance, I'm a guitarist, but I don't tell everybody I meet that I am. It just comes out naturally sometimes... and sometimes it doesn't come out and that is natural too. .......snip......... I'm a pretty "out" sort of a person when I get beyond my shyness. snip- It's got to be out of love or it isn't going to change the world for the better. Yours, Laura Hi Laura, Actually, this was meant to be rhetorical. My take on speaking outloud those things that are very personal or close to our hearts, we affirm to ourselves the beliefs/ ideas/ dreams/ hopes/ thoughts/fears that we share with others. It's like we need to hear it ourselves in our own voice for some reason- especially when you blurt out something and you get miffed that you forgot to use 'the inner voice'. lol.Too late! But everything happens for a reason (it's so cliche, but if you pay attention, it's mindblowing how you can connect the dots...) My partner jokingly refers to me getting very 'zen' when I get into this stuff. Actually, there may be some major life changes happening to me- to us-very soon, if things fall into place. I've had dreams of this happening a while ago,so I've been in heavy thought mode, a little anxious, excited, and scared. There was one good thing that happened this weekend: my partner and I celebrated our 1 year anniversary yesterday, on Halloween. It was just so aproppo. And it does all come back to love doesn't it? This post, our lives - Love's the greatest beauty- I wish everyone was there right now... How ironic that Joan doesn't believe in love at this point (WOHAM DVD)- she was always looking, longing, hoping, believing at some point she would be there, in all those songs... She let us in, time after time, to taste her emotions and relate them to our own private lives. THat's why were all here- Joan. Joan was all about love- the search or the wonder of it's beauty and elusiveness, in whatever form it took- love of country, self , friends, music, family- the list goes on and on. It all come back to love... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 03:48:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Metis njc metis (i actually have l'accent but i know the word will post as something weird when you read it) comes from the latin "mixtus" = mixed. the word mestizo in spanish has the same etymology. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 02:11:03 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: November 2 1968: Joni performs at The Main Point in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. 1998: Joni performed in Syracuse. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/981102.cfm http://jonimitchell.com/RoadAgainSyracuse1098.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 02:11:03 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: November 2 On November 2 the following articles were published: 1980: "Joni's New Album Stays in Shadows" - Los Angeles Times (Review - Album, with photographs) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=159 1998: "We Are Stardust" - Entertainment Weekly Online (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=105 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 23:33:18 -0800 From: Susan Glumac Subject: Oh my God - GREAT Joni in new movie Ok - I'm emerging from the lurk world to bring news about some great Joni moments in a new movie I saw tonite "Love Actually". Has a great cast, very lighthearted, ok a little corny, but a nice change of pace. So..., the Joni content: At one point Emma Thompson is listening to some Joni in the background (couldn't quite make out the song because my young friend who knows I love Joni started asking me " is that Joni Mitchell?" Anyway, the dialogue goes something like this. Husband " I can't believe you still listen to Joni Mitchell" Emma (wife) "I can't help it, she taught me to feel". Then later in the movie, there's a long scene in which the Emma Thompson character receives the "Both Sides Now" CD set for a Christmas present and.... well I don't want give away the movie but I will say they play about a minute of BSN with close ups of the album cover. Aaah, it was sweet!!! Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 04:44:22 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Who do we tell? NJC i'm just back from partying and celebrating. today we had our gay pride parade in buenos aires. we do it on november 1 for 3 reasons: 1- it is the anniversary day of the first gay rights organization in argentina (november 1, 1962) 2- june weather is harshly cold here and you simply CAN'T go to gay pride day celebration in a down coat. 3- we always do things on the wrong day here. our parade is a very political event. no floats or anything like that. we usually start at the roman catholic cathedral and hurl assorted vegetables at members of the clergy that happen to venture outside. from there we march on toward the national congress building (about 30 blocks away) and we have speeches and rallies and a few minutes devoted to kissing. everybody kisses everybody (REAL kissing). then we turn on the music and dance and some of us take some of our clothes off and go rather wild. this year we were about 4,000 g's, l's, t's, t's, b's and q's. not a great turn out but it sufficed. so, going back to the subject line question, it seems as though in buenos aires we just tell everyone. personally, i also tell everyone. i hold hands with alberto in the streets, i kiss him in the supermarket and i cook for his children and his mother. when someone frowns upon such displays or says something that is supposed to intimidate us, i take a variety of stands: 1- i ignore them 2- i insult them 3- i take my genitalia out and show them 4- i get into a fight and kick their heads in 5- i talk to them 6- i suggest they find a therapist 8- etc. i don't believe in the possibility of an integrated world, at least not in the near future. many institutions have either to change or to disappear before we can even begin to talk about educating the masses. my view is that this is my square yard and you'd better think it twice before you trespass because i'll defend my territory in the true Neanderthal fashion. if you have a problem, i won't go to your house and i won't ask you into mine. but if you want to fight, i'll fight and take no prisoners. if i ever denied or hid or equivocate, i would be committing the worst sin against god and nature: i would be dishonoring the man i love. his love is a gift from god. i don't want to be peter denying jesus thrice before sunrise. so i am militant. i hope someday all these things won't be an issue anymore, but they are an issue now. so i am militant and i fight for my GLTTBQ brothers and sisters. i am proud of who and what i am because i had/have to work hard to be free and when homosexuals rationalize themselves into thinking that your sexual identity and your sexual narrative is a private issue i just think i would like to slap them repeatedly across the face and give them a piece of my mind. literally, a piece of my mind so that they would put back their frontal lobes where they should have always been. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 07:57:18 -0000 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Beating the Covers Sad as it may seem, I am prone to play a litte game called 'Beating the Covers' - - bit like fishing. From time to time, my float will bob (!) a bit and I'll feel a little tug on my line. Had a nibble this morning, reading that Cris Williamson & Holly Near had covered "The Tea Leaf Prophecy" on their new album "Cris & Holly". As my rod started to bend, I quickly clicked on http://www.jmdl.com/covers/byartist.cfm Dang! Another one got away! PaulC ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #542 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)