From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #541 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, November 1 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 541 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and James PermaVine [Rick and Susan ] Re: What I'm reading plus a librarian question (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Perma Vine discs [CDTraderJohn@aol.com] Re: gay issues njc (re: just a fan) ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: What I'm reading plus a librarian question (NJC) [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: Permavines [Emiliano ] Re: What I'm reading plus a librarian question (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Jonifest DVD's- correction [AsharaJM@aol.com] RE: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: just a fan (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Jonifest DVD's- correction [Chris Marshall ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #540 - Rod NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: just a fan (njc) ["ron" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #540 [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Covers [David Sadowski ] Re: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! njc ["David Rahall" ] Re: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! ["kakki" ] Re: Covers storage - the ongoing saga (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Virigina Woolf (NJC) ["Joseph S.E. Palis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 00:09:01 -0800 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Joni and James PermaVine Okay, I think I put this permavine out for the taking once and got no takers so here goes again. This is the Joni and James Taylor concert recorded in London in 1970. I will send the original to the first person to ask for it and a copy to the first burnerless person to respond. Sorry I no longer have the official permavine rules but maybe CDTrader John could repost them? Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:24:44 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: What I'm reading plus a librarian question (NJC) --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > My problem with "To > The Lighthouse" is that I > tried to read it several times over the years and > just couldn't get into it. > But I feel much smarter now, so I will give it > another try. I guess I never was that smart to begin with, and I'm dumber now than I ever was. Had to study "To the lighthouse" in first-year university English and I had to force myself to read it. My prof went on and on about how wonderful it was, but I just couldn't get into it at all and, as a result, I never wanted to read anything else by V. Woolf. There. I said it. Now everyone knows what a cultural barbarian I am. As if there were ever any doubt. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:59:04 +0100 From: "Paul Mepschen" Subject: gay issues njc (re: just a fan) mack said: 'i rest my case' what kind of response is that? what in my post made you rest your case? and what makes you think others understand why you come to that conclusion? i disagree with your views on gay politics, because I am afraid that in the end there will be no more gay politics at all. there is no reason to become defensive -- yours is the majority point of view in --- the problem I have with it is that we have started blaming ourselves for the discrimination we face. or would you say we don't face discrimination? that we exaggerate? if we do not, why should we NOT be militant?-- tens of thousands of gay people get physically assaulted every year, an enormous amount of youth suicides is caused by the fact that young gays and lesbians are afraid to come out to parents and friends. and thousands of us get killed. I don't want to sound pathetic..... I've heard gay men say gaybashing is the result of gay-militancy, or of gay men behaving too feminine -- I resent that. If we get beaten up, it's because they hate us. it gives more reason for solidarity, especially with people not very gender conform. the need for a queer politics shows itself in ron's post: "being gay may expose you to certain prejudices i havent experienced. but on the other hand i have experienced certain prejudices you havent." on the one hand that may seem to express the obvious, but ron, you ignore the systematic the character the prejudices we face have --- I know nothing about you, of course. peace, paul of the netherlands - ---------------------------------- we will push on into that mystery, and it will push right back, and there worse things than that -- dar williams: after all --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:11:39 -0500 From: "Marian Russell " Subject: CGRs - Baby Blue, #1, and other stuff Well, I had to do some pretty serious driving yesterday and today. The only time I ever intentionally listen to music is driving in my car when I am alone. If I'm not alone, I like to talk with the people in my car (usually my kids) and music always seems to discourage communication so I just don't turn it on. And sometimes I just want to think about stuff, so I don't turn it one when I'm alone, but yesterday I felt like listening to something so I listened to NRH yesterday and today to the beginning songs on CMIARS. What a surprise to hear Baby Blue! made me wonder what other non-Joni songs can be played in Joni tunings. I can remember when I first heard the songs NRH and CL - I loved those songs so much - and now they seem a little bit boring, although I still love CL and think it is one of the few songs where Joni really got in touch with something special - some deep emotions - the song still made me cry yesterday. I also felt amazed yesterday at the emotion in Everything For Nothing. It is not one of my favorite songs, but I liked its intensity. My favorites on the album are BBB and R'sD'sC. I know a lot of you really hate R'sD'sC, but to me it seems so joyful and playful and also very clever musically. I also like NCBD quite a lot. As a aging person myself, this album seems to be about getting older - Joni's middle-aged lamenting. Today I had CMIARS in the player. I was stunned by #1. She really experimented with rhythm and harmony in that song. Even though I am a musician and I'm comfortable with harmonizing, I was struck by the unusual harmonies and found it hard to "hear" what was going on - I wanted to sing along, but it will take me a few more listens to figure out what the harmonies are. Joni has written quite a few songs with unusual harmonies (most notably S&L, which will go in the player after I finish the other CGRs CDs). I love that about her - the unusual harmonies in some of her songs. I wonder how she comes up with them. Does she hear them in her head? Does she sit down at the piano and work out weird chords and then do the vocals? I would love to ask her about this someday. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:10:41 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: just a fan (njc) hi mark >>>>>>Not knowing you, Ron, I don't know what prejudices you have faced in your life. I can only speak from my own experience and I have to say I have often felt the way Marianne does. If you live life as someone who is outside of the accepted norm, it gives you a perspective that those on the inside, from my personal observation, to a large degree do not share and do not understand. It forces you to challenge very basic precepts that many of us were brought up with. So you either learn to think for yourself and find your own answers outside of the teachings of society and religion or you most likely end up living a life wracked by guilt, feelings of rejection and low self-esteem. i think the critical issue is not what a person has faced, in terms of hardship / rejection etc, but how they have responded to it. whether a person has let it turn them bitter and unfeeling, or whether it has been responded to with compassion, depth and insight. feeling you are outside of the accepted norm does not give you any perspective whatsoever if you lack insight. however, in many cases, having insight will put you outside of the accepted norm. a month or two ago i met a gay man, who was totally different to most i have met. in fact, that's not the right way to put it - he was just a helluva nice person, who happened to be gay. being gay did not define him, neither did being an artist, he was just himself. he certainly did not hide it at all, it was very much a part of his identity, it just wasnt *the* defining part. a truly refreshing person to mee, he really made an impression on me - & when mack showed that same attitude, i just had to say "amen" (you know what i mean im sure!!!) >>>>unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and as long as there are people who who choose to judge us by these things and as long as some of those people have some power to affect our lives, being silent or pretending the differences don't exist is only going to do us harm.<<<<< not what i, or, i think, mack, was saying. dont be silent about it at all. but at the same time, dont let it define you. a person may be gay, but they may be many, many, other things as well - funny, sensitive, compassionate, or just plain good. let more things than just sexuality define a person. i know it may sound idealistic to expect other people to get it, but, there are some people who do. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:17:24 EST From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Perma Vine discs Please note: the recipients name and email address for these Perma-Vines should be posted to the group so others can track the flow. Thanks, John In a message dated 11/1/03 3:01:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 23:17:36 +0200 > From: "ron" > Subject: perma vine status > > hi > > > ok - the perma vine has been snapped up &will be winging its way back to > america!! > > > ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 07:28:44 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: gay issues njc (re: just a fan) Paul wrote: > what kind of response is that? what in my post made you rest your case? and > what makes you think others understand why you come to that conclusion? - --If others understand or do not understand is not really my aim. I made it clear that those were simply my views and I realize that you do not agree with them. They have no more validity than yours in the scheme of this world. As for my response I simply wrote what I felt and the meaning was that I found your words expounded on what I had written by the example they made. > > i disagree with your views on gay politics, because I am afraid that in the > end there will be no more gay politics at all. there is no reason to become > defensive -- yours is the majority point of view in - --I don't find my statements to be political at all and didn't mean for them to be understood in that way. Defensive? No. As for the majority, it isn't a contest and though the opinions of others are food for thought and give me pause to think, I don't allow those written opinions to sway my thoughts on what I feel is right. Who knows, in the future that may be the case after they are digested? You make many valid points and I am glad that you shared them. - --- the problem I have > with it is that we have started blaming ourselves for the discrimination we > face. or would you say we don't face discrimination? that we exaggerate? - --I don't remember writing anything that had to do with discrimination. if we > do not, why should we NOT be militant? - --I don't believe that is productive. Self defense is one thing, attempting to force others to acceptance by force doesn't work, it can't work. In my estimation, it just compounds the problem. - -- tens of thousands of gay people get > physically assaulted every year, an enormous amount of youth suicides is > caused by the fact that young gays and lesbians are afraid to come out to > parents and friends. and thousands of us get killed. I don't want to sound > pathetic..... - --I also don't find anything I wrote that condoned violence against homosexuals. Violence begets violence as far as I am concerned. I feel that if we, as homosexuals, can set an example as to what kind of individuals we are, without the venom, then we can change more minds as to what and who we are than by screaming and hollering and attempting to force others to accept us. > > I've heard gay men say gaybashing is the result of gay-militancy, or of gay > men behaving too feminine -- I resent that. If we get beaten up, it's because > they hate us. - --It is the result of ignorance and hate I would put forth and that is why I feel education is so important. I fully support hate crime legislation but I don't feel that two wrongs make a right. it gives more reason for solidarity, especially with people not > very gender conform. - --Solidarity is one thing but cloisterization is another. I refuse to do that. > the need for a queer politics shows itself in ron's post: "being gay may > expose you to certain prejudices i havent experienced. but on the other hand i > have experienced certain prejudices you > havent." > on the one hand that may seem to express the obvious, but ron, you ignore the > systematic the character the prejudices we face have --- I know nothing about > you, of course. - --I found nothing offensive in Ron's post, nor Mark's, nor Laura's, nor Marianne's. Not in yours either for that matter. Just opinions, heartfelt I am sure. And the mere fact that the discussion is taking place is an example of how times are changing, maybe not fast enough for some, but surely it comes. Thanks for the dialogue. mack ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 08:37:50 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: article with pics Catherine wrote: This article is worth is for the photos alone - beautiful! http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=9 Mmmmmmmmmm. Thanks Catherine ! Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:38:46 -0000 From: "TheWizardOfIs" Subject: Permavines Is anyone free to start a vine or tree? (Emiliano knows what's coming next as, I suspect, do some others.) AMO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:17:05 -0500 (EST) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: What I'm reading plus a librarian question (NJC) Bob, When I get back to my office on Monday I will search this for you. Jerry Quoting Murphycopy@aol.com: I am looking for something I think > Allan > Gurganis wrote for Esquire in the early 70s. It's very important for me > to find > out what it may have been. If you've got advice, feel free to respond > off list > because I am sure no one is interested in this! > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:47:39 +0100 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Permavines Hi, AMO! First one thing: I'm intrigued by your many incarnations (ie: your e-mail addresses): this last one is superb, trust me. Are you the same who described himself two days ago as "Your very own tamed tiger"? If so, kitty kitty, please feel free to tell us (as dear Catherine pointed) about how did you find Joni's art, how much represnts in your life, etc... even you could tell us about how you rejected K.B.'s advances, so everyone of us could laugh a little! (excuse me if I'm being indiscreet, I'm famous for being that!) regarding Vines... I took myself the liberty to open a vine, so I guess is open to everyone who wants it: I assumed that, being an offer, nobody could feel harmed by it; besides, some people can discriminate vine's sources, ie: John's vines are of proven high quality, mine's... who knows? I suggest using E.A.C. (Exact Audio Copy) for finding any possible error on disc. Bottom line: if someone's offering some rare (unofficially released) SIQUOMB's stuff, I think it's a good thing for everybody, don't you? Well, whats my two centavos on it. Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: It Doesn't Matter Anymore, Linda Ronstadt - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "TheWizardOfIs" Para: "JMDL" Enviado: sabado, 01 de noviembre de 2003 14:38 Asunto: Permavines > Is anyone free to start a vine or tree? > > (Emiliano knows what's coming next as, I suspect, do some others.) > > > AMO ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:52:55 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: What I'm reading plus a librarian question (NJC) Catherine the Barbarian writes: << My prof went on and on about how wonderful it was, but I just couldn't get into it at all and, as a result, I never wanted to read anything else by V. Woolf. >> Well, Catherine, now we all know . . . Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf, Virginia Woolf, Virginia Woolf Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf . . . XO, - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:25:14 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC That's an interesting take Kakki. I'm hoping that it is mock outrage because I really like Rod Stewart. My favorite thought of him is when he sheds a tear while singing "Have I Told You Lately". Sherelle >From: "kakki" >To: "Sherelle Smith" , >CC: >Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:23:09 -0800 > >Hey Sherelle and Kate, > >Maybe I'm weird but I kind of laughed at Ron's comments and felt like he >didn't really mean them. Like he said it all in mock outrage when in >reality he might actually be good friends with Sting and Elton. I thought >maybe it was his British humor poking at his fellow blokes. At any rate, I >didn't think he was being serious, but who knows? > >Kakki > _________________________________________________________________ Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:41:28 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC Boy Kakki! I didn't even catch the "Ron"! It's interesting to see that if what you are saying is correct, how differently the message is perceived. I know I was at first taken aback at the comments. I love Sting as well and it felt a little like someone insulting a member of your family. But I also love wry, British humor (Monty Python a good example). The one group I continually have to have patience with is Oasis. The lead singer has said quite a few things that have made me tap my toe a little. I'll leave it at that. Opinions? Sherelle NP-Don't Interrupt the Sorrow >From: "kakki" >To: "Sherelle Smith" , >CC: >Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC >Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:40:24 -0800 > >Oops, I meant ROD, not Ron! ;-) > >By the way, he has a place out here near the beach and plays with a local >soccer team. A friend of mine who is a fan has run into him a few times at >a little local pub and shamelessly tries to chat him up. He's considered >just a regular guy. > >Kakki > _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to anyone on your contact list with MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:43:09 -0500 From: "David Rahall" Subject: Re: What I'm reading plus a librarian question (NJC) Well then, you just trot over to the barie-poo and make your little Mommy a gweat big dwink. David NP:Miles of Aisles - ----- Original Message ----- From: > > Well, Catherine, now we all know . . . > > Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf, Virginia Woolf, Virginia Woolf > Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf . . . > > XO, > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:43:46 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC Kakki said >>Maybe I'm weird but I kind of laughed at Ron's comments and felt like he didn't really mean them. Like he said it all in mock outrage when in reality he might actually be good friends with Sting and Elton. I thought maybe it was his British humor poking at his fellow blokes. At any rate, I didn't think he was being serious, but who knows?<< I agree absolutely with Kakki. I think Rod/Ron was 'taking a pop' at Elton in a light hearted way. He has referred to Elton as 'Sharon' for at least 20 years and I think I'm right in saying that Elton always calls Rod 'Tracey'. Behind all this though is the class/status snobbery of the Brits. If anyone has 'done his bit' for charity over the years then isn't this reward in itself? It's very easy to make tax-deductable charitable donations when one earns money to the degree these people do. The presumption that they should 'automatically' become Sir Rodney or Sir Paul or Sir Elton after doing their worthy work is sickening, and more sickening is the wider hypocrisy of many other people who share nothing in common with the aristocratic system and its (lack of) morality but deep down are attracted by the idea of schmoozing with these people and jump like lions through a hoop when a 'gong' is in the offing. What is about being rich that makes people forget where they came from? mike in barcelona NP Michele Faber - Nacimiento ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 11:50:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC "It's interesting to see that if what you are saying is correct, how differently the message is perceived. " Didn't Rod & Elton own a soccer team at some point? I think they're mates from way back, and Sting too. My take on it is that Rod's just having a go at them for fun, plus maybe trying to stir up some free publicity. Really, he has nothing to be unhappy about; after all his AWFUL sappy standards CD from last year sold 4 million copies and now he's made another one! I'm sure his success is due to all the TV advertising, how many other records get advertised on TV? Bob NP: Eric Adcock - Blue Overall ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:11:37 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Cranky C & N I've been mulling over this thread about Croz being bitter, etc. , waiting to find the right words. I've always felt a special cosmic bond to Croz, as strong as my bond to Joni. So I can only convey my feelings about him in a personal manner When I went to the bookstore in W.Hollywood where Croz was signing authographs for the release of his bio, I was accompanied by a 75 year old friend (the one who passed away last august at 90) who was himself quite a character. I don't recall saying anything to Croz, I didn't need to. He just looked at us and I'll always remember the look of complicity he gave me, which was both intense and facetious, like he had figured me out without my saying a word, like he knew me forever. On the other hand I just got some VCDs on CSN&Y between 66 and 73 which I watched last night. In one, there is a segment at Big Sur in 69 where Joni joins them for this old hippie anthem I can't remember the name of, perhaps a Joan Baez song about "getting together". I'm not sure whether this segment is officially released (the VCDs all being bootlegs), if not I'll happily make it available to the list (Permavine?). Joni looks gorgeous, Nash is obviously a love-addict and at his creative peak with his muse. Quite a contrast with the next segment probably from 73: in it Nash is just a shadow of himself, a total wreck, sarcastic, bitter and grumpy (I guess anybody would after been dumped by Joni). There's an obvious rivality between Nash and Stills, Croz is flying high and Young is also in a dark phase, although for different reasons . Then all 4 sing Neil's "Only Love can Break your Heart", with just Stills playing an acoustic bass, and one can sense the emotion in the singing of this appropriate song. Just some euro cents' worth of thoughts about the ups and downs and how anybody can have his or her cranky moments. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:16:42 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Jonifest DVD's- correction I wrote: <> I have been duly corrected by techno-man, Mr. Simon Montgomery. Region free does not mean it can be played anywhere. I don't completely understand it, but I guess because it's made in the good ol' US of A, it's an NTSC DVD, thus cannot be played anywhere. Sorry for the misinformation. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:18:27 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC Could very well be his wry humor & we have totally missed where he was coming from...but since I don't really know his personality it is hard for me second guess ...his words were so strange that I wondered if he was high or something but without being there for body language & vocal inflections its tough to know... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:26:22 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: permavine I get the Joni digest so it's difficult to be the 1st to answer when it is being offered back. I'd appreciate it if I could get the Joni in ciculation one of these days. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 10:21:09 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: just a fan (njc) > i think the critical issue is not what a person has faced, in terms of > hardship / rejection etc, but how they have responded to it. whether a > person has let it turn them bitter and unfeeling, or whether it has > been responded to with compassion, depth and insight. feeling you are > outside of the accepted norm does not give you any perspective > whatsoever if you lack insight. however, in many cases, having > insight will put you outside of the accepted norm. I think this is exactly what Marianne was trying to say. It has given her insight that she feels has made her a better person. I don't see where either Marianne or I said anything about being bitter and unfeeling. > > a month or two ago i met a gay man, who was totally different to most > i have met. in fact, that's not the right way to put it - he was > just a helluva nice person, who happened to be gay. He was a helluva nice person, huh? Totally different to most of the other gay people you've met, huh? being gay did not > define him, neither did being an artist, he was just himself. he > certainly did not hide it at all, it was very much a part of his > identity, it just wasnt *the* defining part. > And again, I don't think either Marianne or I said that being gay 'defines' us. I agree that it is only one part of the complex beings that we are. I certainly don't feel that it entirely defines who I am. But when I sit at my desk at work or in a departmental meeting and people talk about their kids and their spouses or when I see a heterosexual couple cuddling and kissing on the public street, I am made aware of this aspect of myself, whether I want to be made aware of it or not. And I am reminded that I am different and that, in many people's eyes, I don't belong. Does it make me bitter? To an extent, I suppose it does. But I don't let bitterness color my entire life and personality. I also have to confess that it tends to make me suspicious of people's attitudes and motives. This is something I struggle with. But I am aware that this is my problem, not somebody else's. > a truly refreshing person to mee, he really made an impression on me > - & when mack showed that same attitude, i just had to say "amen" > (you know what i mean im sure!!!) > > > >>>>unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and as > long as there are people who who choose to judge us by these things > and as long as some of those people have some power to affect our > lives, being silent or pretending the differences don't exist is only > going to do us harm.<<<<< > > not what i, or, i think, mack, was saying. dont be silent about it at > all. but at the same time, dont let it define you. a person may be > gay, but they may be many, many, other things as well - funny, > sensitive, compassionate, or just plain good. let more things than > just sexuality define a person. i know it may sound idealistic to > expect other people to get it, but, there are some people who do. > I know there are other people who get it, Ron. This particular group of people on the JMDL are a prime example of that. I'm not sure that we really disagree. But I got the impression from your response to Marianne that you somehow felt that there was something wrong with her feelings about the different perspective being a lesbian has given her. I think she was trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong, Marianne, I don't pretend to speak for you or anyone else for that matter) that being different has made her see the world in a way that she would not have otherwise experienced. My impression was that she felt positive about this overall, not bitter or obsessed with being gay. Mark > > ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:30:40 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Jonifest DVD's- correction On 1 Nov 2003, at 17:16, AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > I have been duly corrected by techno-man, Mr. Simon Montgomery. Region > free > does not mean it can be played anywhere. I don't completely understand > it, but > I guess because it's made in the good ol' US of A, it's an NTSC DVD, > thus > cannot be played anywhere. Sorry for the misinformation. But you may well find that your DVD player can handle NTSC discs even if you are not in the USA. As a rule of thumb, you should be OK if you already own Region 1 DVDs that play just fine on your player. It's most probable that you'll be OK, for instance, you're in the UK and have a multiregion player. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:40:43 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #540 - Rod NJC I'm believing that Sting and the other artists Rod insulted are going to be a little more forgiving of his actions because they are not going to stoop to Rod's level. They know that Rod is going through some inner turmoil right now. It's just a shame that the consequences are so dramatic and so costly. Maybe. Or perhaps he was right. Or some of both. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 21:37:53 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: just a fan (njc) hi mark & marianne >>>>>>>But I got the impression from your response to Marianne that you somehow felt that there was something wrong with her feelings about the different perspective being a lesbian has given her. I think she was trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong, Marianne, I don't pretend to speak for you or anyone else for that matter) that being different has made her see the world in a way that she would not have otherwise experienced. My impression was that she felt positive about this overall, not bitter or obsessed with being gay.<<<<< sorry - im not particularly good with words - esp with email where i really battle to convey my emotion. marianne, what im trying to say is that i really cant see that being gay made you a good/nice person. you are a good/nice person who happens to be gay. your response to the prejudice you have experienced did not make you a good person - being a good person has shaped your response to what you have experienced. is that a bit clearer?? please accept that what i am saying comes only from good motives - no desire to crticise, attack, or change anything - just to understand & ask questions. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:48:53 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #540 Subject: TRAVELOGUE, used $17 in a store Muller said it this week. I saw it for myself today. Stunned in Covington, Lama Not sure why that would be so shocking, it's used. A used single CD (if not rare) sells for $2 to $8. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:11:14 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! Greetings to Joni fans around this wonderful world of ours! And I see by the dusty calendar on the wall (I need to vacuum this place one of these days but all the cobwebs just seemed appropriate for Halloween) that it's time to trot out another in the never-ending series of Joni Mitchell covers compilations! And November finds us cradling another winner in Volume #46! But first, let's look at all the fine folks who helped me gather in the bounty: Me Me Me OK, now that I'm vocally warmed up, let's look see what he have here: 1. Dengue Fever - Both Sides Now: By now I could probably put together a complete foreign-language edition, and if I did even then there would be only ONE in the Cambodian Khmer language - this one. It was used in the Soundtrack to Matt Dillon's film "City Of Ghosts". 2. The Practicers - Chelsea Morning 3. The Practicers - Carey/This Flight Tonight: A command return performance thanks to Jimmy Stewart who loves them so! ;~) As for me, I love the spirit of this duo, maybe lo-fi but they obviously love playing and singing these great songs. 4. Spring Fever - Woodstock: Straight from the hippie days (daze?) with a nice electrified psych-rock version. 5. Des O'Connor - Both Sides Now: Don't know much about him, a soft-pop singer from the UK I would guess. 6. Iron Savior - This Flight Tonight: Another heavy-metal cover of the Nazareth cover. Joni with facepaint & a codpiece. 7. Jimmy Angel - You're So Square: This guy is trying to sound like Buddy Holly, he sounds like some kind of mutant midget or something. Hilarious, especially when he sings "I don't know any dancesteps that I do..." Huh? 8. Lorin Grean - Green Fields/Big Yellow Taxi: Now this one is really pretty. Lorin (not to be confused with Lorne Green of Bonanza fame who recorded the cheesy "Ringo") uses a snippet of the first song to lead into BYT, with very nice acoustic & bass accompaniments which remind me of the intro music to "thirtysomething" if that rings any bells for anyone. 9. John Cacavas - Both Sides Now: Muzak. This Cacavas is ca-ca. 10. Michael Perlowin - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: This instrumental take on the Mingus melody is interesting due to its being played on the pedal steel guitar. And if you don't dig it, no sweat, cuz it's only a minute & a half! 11. Judd Grossman - Carey: This one made the cut for me Sweet Sixteen volume 2, and I love it. Judd (a pal of the JMDL's own Jenny Goodspeed) gives this one a nice driving-country treatment and has a nice clear true voice. 12. Toni Jannotta - Twisted: This one's pretty fun, and Toni gives her musicians a chance to stretch out on some nice solos. Funny thing is her voice sometimes sounds like Geddy Lee from Rush. All in all, a nice workout. 13. Ted Mulry - Both Sides Now: Australian folk-pop singer Mulry takes the franchise out for a perfunctory spin. 14. Pam Bricker - Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: This one also made my Sweet 16 for 2003...great jazz vocal, love it. If only Joni would hook up with this sort of jazz trio, wow it would be unbeatable. 15. Patchy Fogg - Woodstock: Very obscure early 70's recording from a UK folk group, nice vocal blend, obviously influenced by the Matthews Southern Comfort recording but they still manage to make it their own. 16. Catherine Reed - Big Yellow Taxi: Nice guitar, nice vocal if a bit timid. 17. Syncopation - Both Sides Now: I really really LOVE this acapella version, totally unique and harmonies that will leave you breathless, like some of the stuff that Take 6 does where you say "how do they do that?". One of the group members handled the arrangement, and these guys are really tight. 18. Donna Deussen - River: Another excellent jazz version, besides her stunning vocal, the track features lovely and creative piano accompaniment and a wonderful acoustic bass anchoring the rhythm. Sweet. 19. David Sanborn - Man From Mars: Just out this year and also very well done. I love it when high-profile artists pick out Joni's 80's & 90's work to expose music fans to its compositional strength. This one is very mellow, not recommended for car-listening unless you're in a traffic jam and have time for a little napper. 20. Jumble Lane - The Gallery: More obscure UK folk, thankfully re-released this year on CD, so I didn't have to pick it up at a high auction price. Pretty much a dupe of Joni's lovely version, which means it's also lovely. 21. Gary Gendron - Both Sides Now: Forgettable, that's what you are... So there you go - a cornucopia of cover delights for your November enjoyment. Joe-bob says check it out. Stay tuned to find out how you can share in the joy. Bob NP: Dengue Fever - "Both Sides Now" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 14:15:19 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Covers Speaking of covers, do any of the covers collections include the sublime version of All I Want recorded by Keith Jarrett in 1971? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:22:07 -0500 From: "David Rahall" Subject: Re: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! njc This is *so* cool, Bob! I have a Dusty Springfield calendar on my wall, too!!;-) David NP: "Close To The Edge" by Yes - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! > Greetings to Joni fans around this wonderful world of ours! And I see by the > dusty calendar on the wall ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:24:58 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers "Speaking of covers" And this should be done at ALL times! :~D , "do any of the covers collections include the sublime version of All I Want recorded by Keith Jarrett in 1971?" But of course mon frer! It can be found on Volume #24 which has this excellent lineup: 1. Bruce Anthony - The Jungle Line 2. Bruce Anthony - The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines 3. Bruce Anthony b Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 4. Kebb Mob b Big Yellow Taxi 5. Thom MacFarlane b Edith and the Kingpin 6. Shawn Colvin b Free Man In Paris (Live) 7. Don Henley b River (Live) 8. The Lilac Time b Big Yellow Taxi 9. Hal Frazier b Both Sides Now 10. Milan & Bibiloni b The Circle Game 11. Sue Medley b Raised On Robbery (Live) 12. Akiko Pavolka b Goodbye Pork Pie Hat 13. Akiko Pavolka b Amelia 14. The Newcomers b Both Sides Now 15. Lonnie Knight b For Free 16. Walt Barr b Chelsea Morning 17. Keith Jarrett b All I Want 18. Louis van Dyke/Rogier van Otterloo b Both Sides Now Bob NP: Ben Gibbard, "Girls Just Want To Have Fun" (Covers played by Death Cab For Cutie last night - Tom Petty's "Freefallin" & The Cure's "Love Song") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:33:11 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC Mike, I share your take on much of this. I was just thinking today about how the handing out of knighthoods has almost become like getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! I can't see "Sir Rod" - I think it would harm his image in a way. ;-) But if they are going to keep handing them out, dammit, I want Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, Ginger Baker, Jack Bruce (and let's even throw in Donovan) to get them, too. LOL Kakki P.S. My "Ron" slip had nothing Freudian to do with our Ron here. Probably more to do with it being the name of my boss!! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:36:25 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! Mine arrived yesterday (thank you - it's always a nice lift to find the padded package from S.C. in amongst the bills and junk mail!) and from your descriptions, it sounds like a very good one! I've noticed that Dengue Fever plays the clubs here a lot, too. Amazing to see a BSN cover from them! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:39:10 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC hi >>>kakki wrote >>>>> P.S. My "Ron" slip had nothing Freudian to do with our Ron here. Probably more to do with it being the name of my boss!! ;-) lol - well i had a moment of confusion but soon realised what happened. :-) and just for the record - i fully agree with your take that rod was probably just taking the mickey. fits in better with the image i have of him in my mind. ron ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 12:49:43 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Covers storage - the ongoing saga (njc) In preparation of our Victor's visit to L.A. and Santa Barbara for Kate's Joni tribute next week, I was fretting about getting my apartment organized, specifically the 800 or so loose CDs stacked in piles throughout. Yes, it was that time once again to find yet another storage unit that would discretely fit in with my eclectic antiques. Found a wonderful hand-painted small trunk from Jaipur this time! I'll have you know Bob that the Covers collection now fills the entirety of two of my other seven "storage units" ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:59:20 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: just a facet SJC Steve wrote: > I am. I just am. It's just a facet on my diamond- like being a musician, > writer, friend, sci-fi fan, a son, a brother, an artist, a dreamer, a > hopeful in a room like this, an instigator- there's so many things I am. > However, sometimes I have found it neccessary to be OUT and make it known. I really like your post Steve. One thing strikes me here... if it is a facet of your diamond like all these other things, then it will be shining beautifully just like the other facets, always out. I understand what you are saying though. Sometimes we have to stand up for our various facets... not everybody appreciates them and some try to put mud on them. Joni is one I admire along these lines; she definitely stands up for the facets of her beautiful diamond in her songs and interviews. Love and joy, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 16:06:37 -0500 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: The Top Ten Joni Mitchell Halloween Songs -- NJC Funny!! I just read these to Marianne's answering machine. I even sang BOO for her.....BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ooooooooooooo oooo songs are like....... Thanks Bob!! Bree >And the number one Joni Mitchell Halloween song . . . > > > BOO! > > >Happy Halloween! > > --Bob _________________________________________________________________ Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access. Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:22:38 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: RE: normal NJC Hi Susan! You wrote: > an example to follow "Say it loud - I'm Queer and I'm > Proud! United we stand - divided we fall .. and finally as i have said here > before " I will NOT be invisible!" I can SEE you have a dream much in the same way Martin Luther King did. > And you wrote: We must push our way into mainstream - they are not > clamoring for our membership! Have you seen the Ernest Green Story? It is about the integration of Central High here in Little Rock and fits with what you say here. Awesome story!!! A must see if you haven't. I was privileged to be at its first showing which was held at Central High in the auditorium, and I got to meet Bill Clinton that night because he was there too as were some of the actors and some of the real people the story was about. The movie exemplifies how to make a difference in a radical and peaceful way. And do so by being who we are. Also what mainstream hetro normal - whatevers > dont realize is ... as they have oppressed they have helped create > subcultures and so we are different and have our own traditions and rituals and > slang. Just living in the south is living in a subculture with interesting traditions, rituals, and definitely slang. We actually have a toad suck festival here... only in Arkansas!!!! Laughing! What is normal anyway?! It all adds to the color on the canvas - as I like to say. Beautifully stated!!! Thanks. With love, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 16:41:04 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers storage - the ongoing saga (njc) I'll have you know Bob that the Covers collection now fills the entirety of two of my other seven "storage units" - ----------------------------------------------------------------- I can imagine! I'm glad to see you displaying the "world's oddest musical collection" with such pride. Speaking of storage, it's about time I get to work filling the two beautiful custom boxes that Hell handcrafted with covers cd's and getting them in Joni's hands. More on this story as it develops. I wish I too could be there for the Santa Barbara tribute - please give us one of your most excellent reports, Ma'am. And keep some open space on the shelf- much more to come! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 15:55:40 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: Cranky C & N (NJC) Laurent wrote: > I've been mulling over this thread about Croz being bitter, etc. , waiting to > find the right words. I've been thinking about this too. Does being in the public eye mean that you have to be nice to every single person who comes up to you, no matter where you are or what you're doing? I think famous people deserve privacy and respect too. They should have a right to walk down the street or eat in a restaurant and not have people approach them. Yes, they have to expect it, but it must get really annoying to have strangers coming up to them and saying the same things over and over. David is a perfectionist and gives everything he's got when he's performing. That's enough for me! Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 17:46:26 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: And you thought Joni was cranky...NJC Mike asks: << What is about being rich that makes people forget where they came from? >> Maybe they forget what it was like because they become distracted by their "rich people's problems." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 18:08:00 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Volume 46...Covers, covers & more covers! -- NJC Muller writes: << But first, let's look at all the fine folks who helped me gather in the bounty: Me Me Me >> And that's probably the finest group of people to work on this project since Thomas Jefferson compiled Volume I alone. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:16:13 -0500 From: "Joseph S.E. Palis" Subject: Virigina Woolf (NJC) Have to admit that I, too liked "The Hours" very much. Very different kind of loneliness and I have not seen enough of that lately. I like all the characters, notably the cameo of Toni Collette and Miranda Richardson and this actor who was in Winterbottom's "Welcome to Sarajevo" who played Leonard Woolf. I too watched Marleen Gorris' "Mrs Dalloway" but much as I have the utmost respect for Vanessa Redgrave and Natascha McElhone, the film was uneven. Surprising because I liked Gorris' "Antonia's Line" which dealt with women issues albeit of a different nature. ' The one film I loved that had a strong reference to Virginia Woolf's "The Waves" is Francois Ozon's "Under The Sand". The loneliness that comes from mourning and the grieving process that are not usually explored (okay, Sean Penn's "The Crossing" was particularly good and fairly recent) in films are dealt here with compassion that suggested that Ozon might have undergone the same experience or watched grieving people with unerring eye for details. As a family, we did grieve for the death of my sister who died tragically in 1999 and "Under The Sand" captured what we went through. Not together as a family, but certainly how a member comes to grips with the sudden demise of someone close. Charlotte Rampling was impressive as she fleshed out the different stages of coming to terms with her husband's disappearance for years. I thought Woolf's "The Waves" (as read by Rampling in the film) was a perfect vehicle/excuse to occasionally wallow in sentimental grief over the loss of a loved one. The other film I watched when I was in NYC last week was Jane Campion's "In the Cut" which talked about "To the Lighthouse" in a limited scale but is crucial in establishing the emotional turmoil of the lead character (played by a very daring Meg Ryan). I am not sure if I can recommend this film to anyone even if I was impressed by it. There is just something missing in that film. Joseph (who did not connect the Tilda Swinton in "Orlando" to the Tilda Swinton in "The Last of England") Joseph S.E. Palis Department of Geography University of North Carolina Saunders Hall, CB 3220 Chapel Hill, N.C. 27599-3220 palis@email.unc.edu joepalis@yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #541 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)