From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #531 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, October 27 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 531 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Michael Moore, Canada, etc. NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: warm and cold chords ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Jewel and Joni [LCStanley7@aol.com] Joni, Nash and Crosby [Doug ] Re: singers/songwriters/recording artists [Bobsart48@aol.com] crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Joni_Mitchell's_Four_Periods=22_=2C_An_essay_ for_Joni's?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?__Internet_community?= [] WOHAM ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni, Dylan, Judy et.al. covered in "Eight Miles High" [BRYAN8847@aol.com] dangers of live performances (NJC) ["ron" ] Re: Joni and heavy loads [LCStanley7@aol.com] other lists (NJC) [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: other lists (NJC) [David Sadowski ] Re: DonOvan njc ["kakki" ] Re: other lists (NJC) ["kakki" ] Re: other lists (NJC) [David Sadowski ] Today in History: October 27 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: October 27 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 03:10:19 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Michael Moore, Canada, etc. NJC octoberrrrrrrr 24th! happy birthday, mags! and brei, is the real bruce... cockburn? damn, that canadian wife of yours will have you supporting legalized marijuana, gay marriage, socialized medicine and god knows what traitorious concepts before we know it! Speaking of Canada, I went to see Michael Moore tonight in Seattle. I'm sure some of you find him tiresome and treasonous. But honestly, it was a lot of fun (and he is full of energy and optimism). He talked a lot about Canada (there were many Canadians in the audience) and did a funny audience participation game/contest featuring "the dumbest Canadian" and three "really smart Americans" (including one with a PhD in political science who doesn't know who the president of Mexico is because "it's not her field".) Anyway, it was a gentle way of pointing out some of America's shortcomings. One rather interesting thing: He said he has wondered why the ultra-right-wing talk radio and TV hotheads are still angry and disgruntled when in fact their Republican friends are in charge of everything these days anyway. The answer: they're pissed because they know our culture has permanently become more progressive and tolerant and they can't stand it. Maybe. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:12:15 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: warm and cold chords >>So what chords do ya'll think are warm and cold?<< And does anyone know the name of the 'weird minor chord' mentioned on the Mingus album? mike in rainy barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:11:59 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Jewel and Joni Paul of the Netherlands wrote: > Then again -- I think Jewel is bag of potatoes, intellectually. I think her > work sucks and I DO understand that Joni is frustrated when Jewel was > compared > to her. I took a road trip with a 20 year old friend and played Joni CD's... a 4 hour trip up into the Ozarks and 4 hours back down to Little Rock. At the end of the trip he said he listens to Jewel and prefers her to Joni. I hadn't heard Jewel so I borrowed a CD from him. I didn't listen to the whole thing because I got tired of it pretty quick. Jewel reminds me more of Madonna with a baby tone to her voice rather than Joni with a refined voice. Joni had a refined voice from the start... even singing with Chuck. My 20 year old friend missed it. But, I have to think maybe some seeds will grow now that he's heard so much Joni. Smile! I guess I'm a Joni evangelist to the young. Just yesterday I was playing guitar (This Flight Tonight) on my front porch and a little neighbor girl who has a guitar came up to listen. I asked her if she'd heard of Joni before, and she hadn't so I put on the WOHAM DVD and let her get to know Joni. She was fascinated. Last week, there was a medical student in my class (150 students... lots to evangelize!) who was listening to music while studying so I asked him what he was listening to and then asked him if he'd heard of Joni. He hadn't. I told him lots about her and recommended he listen to Blue. He said his dad might have some Joni albums and he will listen. I think he was somewhat surprised I was talking about Joni rather than bone and cartilage. But really Joni is the back bone of musical poetry and has opened up a whole new use of guitar much in the same way Van Gogh opened up a whole new use of colors. The youth will get it in time. Edison, Einstein, Van Gogh, Joni... it takes time. Fondly, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:27:49 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Joni, Nash and Crosby A tiny bit of history: http://www.lehibou.ca/nash.html Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:52:21 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: singers/songwriters/recording artists G'nH Beeing a sing&songwriter myself, Joni has been the most important influence on me. I found my way to the forum when searching inromation about Joni Mitchell. It's great to have a forum like this. It just a one good example about how strong influence Joni has had for so many people. Peace and blessings, G'n H Hardly alone here on the list ! Although I am not among them, this list numbers quite a number of singer/songwriters, performers and recording artists. Would someone who knows everybody - and you know who you are - care to take a shot at such a list, risking the occasional omission ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:53:43 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel Hi Paul, About Crosby, a friend of a friend stalked Crosby to his motel room on the day of a show and knocked on the door. Casey asked David for an autograph and David gave it and they had a talk. At the venue, however, Crosby was in "work" mode and wouldn't talk to anyone. In his bio, it details how he had at least 2 girlfriends for a decade, until Christine died in a car wreck. David's a mixed bag, like most of us. :) About Nash, I see your point about putting Joni on the sexist pedestal. Personally, I'd be extremely effusive too, but I do see what you mean. Ironcially, many of the women on the JMDL who commented about Nash, both on the WOH&M film and at the PWW&M film, kinda swooned over him a bit & think he's a really gentleman. I think Graham is a mixed bag, like most of us. :) Lama, who's sorta a mixed bag, like... Paul Mepschen said, >I have never met David Crosby but I believe he's a prick--- on the other hand, what would you do if you were walking through Dublin and someone else walks up to you only because you were in a famous, be it somewhat mediocre folk-rock band once. But that is not my point. My point is that when I was watching WOHAM I was annoyed not by David Crosby -- who at least has a kind of dignified respect for Joni -- but with Nash. He keeps treating her like this precious little thing. It is the kind of subtle sexism that is typical of many men who think they are oh-so-liber ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:11:39 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel we're all bozos on this bus............... Victor NP: Belle and Sebastian - Like Dylan in the Movies > Lama, who's sorta a mixed bag, like... > > > Paul Mepschen said, > >I have never met David Crosby but I believe he's a prick--- on the other > hand, > what would you do if you were walking through Dublin and someone else walks > up > to you only because you were in a famous, be it somewhat mediocre folk-rock > band once. But that is not my point. My point is that when I was watching > WOHAM I was annoyed not by David Crosby -- who at least has a kind of > dignified respect for Joni -- but with Nash. He keeps treating her > like this precious little > thing. It is the kind of subtle sexism that is typical of many men who think > they are oh-so-liber ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:19:40 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: WOHAM Bob, I absolutely agree that Joni's work is complete. It really weird because after I read Karen's bio, I said that exact thing in an essay last June. See my next post. About Nash, you and I read it differently. Ya see, he wanted to marry her and she dropped him. To me, he seemed like a guy who married Susan and still loves Joni a bit. It's awkward to be involved with a new girlfriend and be interviewed about an old one, but I thought his respect for her talent came through in bold type and #48 font. I'm not arguing, okay? I'm just saying. He could have rejected the interview (like Bob Dylan probably did) but he participated. Has everyone seen the outtake quote by Crosby on one of the websites where he says, "Of all of us song-writers, I think Joan will be remembered as the best of us all. I really do and I've said it many times." One more word on Crosby? Yeah, he has had some bad days. He's also someone who saw her in a coffeehouse and was blown away. He used his clout in the Industry to make sure that her first album was Joni-like and NOT over-produced. That's the act of someone with enormous respect and love that he transmuted into action. The Crosby glass is half-full. That reminds me of an old joke that Emmylou Harris told at the "Tall Stacks Music and Heritage Festival" here in Cincinnati this month. "Here's an 'engineer' joke. It's okay. My brother is an engineer. Are there any engineers in the house? He sent me this joke, okay? An optimist sees a 1/2 glass of water and says it's half full. A pessimist says the glass is half empty. An engineer says the glass is twice as big as it needs to be." Lama np: $1 Cat Stevens album, on LP obviously. Hey I thought he was too sappy to buy when I was 17 but it's worth $1, eh? the critic (It sounded like Flanagan ?)said that in having discovered her lost daughter and grandchildren, that in a way her life's work had sort of become complete. Graham Nash seemed to make out that Joni was mad..ie her going into a trance for hours....being there but not being there .....( I do that all the time at work!).....maybe that was my interpretation of what he said, he seemed like a jaded/spurned lover! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:20:33 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Joni_Mitchell's_Four_Periods=22_=2C_An_essay_ for_Joni's?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?__Internet_community?= June 02, 2002 - --------Warning-------- I apologize in advance for the amateur psychology presented here. If one finds this kind of thing offensive, please do not read it. Joni Mitchell is a person, of course, and I respect that very much, but reviewers have always been allowed a certain amount of latitude. As you will see, I have taken considerable liberty with mine. And so, I sit up here, the critic. (1) - ----------------------- Contrary to popular opinion, I believe Joni Mitchell's recording career should be divided into four periods so far, not three. 1. Early Portraits 2. Master Storyteller 3. Intellect Engaged 4. In Pain No More In historical context, here is my argument. As a child, she sang and painted. At nine years old, her backbone twisted up with polio. According to Karen OBriens biography, Joan underwent the application of scalding compresses to her legs. The compresses were then removed, bringing the raw skin to the brink of blistering. Many doctors would later question the efficacy of this method, believing that its most lasting effect was not the physiological but psychological: the memory of the searing pain. (2) To escape the pain she took refuge in art. In the next passage from Ms. O'Brien's book, the emphasis is mine. She'd been sent a colouring book to keep her occupied; the pictures were of old-fashioned English carol *singers*, with the *lyrics* printed alongside. Joan used cotton swabs - stained purple from the gentian violet used to treat her mouth ulcers - to *colour the illustrations*. (3) I am sure that Karen did not notice when she wrote her book how much is in those two sentences. Joni's whole career is right there. Nine-year-old Joan was meditating on singing, lyrics, and painting to offset her pain. It's all right there, at nine years old. Joan, nicknamed Joni, evolved into a teenaged performer, then began playing in coffee houses. As an art college student, she obviously had tons of undeveloped talent but could not raise the dues to become a unionized nightclub singer. Her career was deadlocked. Then came Kelly/Kilauren. Joni kept an enormous and painful secret; she kept her daughter as a secret from her parents. Unable to raise the dues, and unable to work, there was only one solution for her; she gave up Kelly/Kilauren for adoption. She must have been in severe anguish. She coped exactly as she did when she was nine. Joni meditated on singing, lyrics, and painting to offset her pain. Carrying an unbearable secret compelled Joni to become the exact opposite of a secret-keeper. She became the epitome of, the very embodiment of, the overtly open poet. I believe that withholding information was so disturbing that it empowered her, by way of compensation. The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away...(4) Perhaps this is the first Joni paradox. It was impossible to express a single secret, but she became a vividly gifted lyricist in return. 1. Early Portraits In the beginning, Joni said, I had a soprano voice so everyone compared me to Baez. I'd written a couple of songs but I just decided that the only way that I was going to be able to differentiate myself from any other of the singers was to have original material. (5) Other singers on the coffeehouse circuit noticed the quality of the early songs and recorded them. A few of the songs, like Both Sides, Now, had lives as a singles on the radio way before Joni had a recording contract. Joni said, Record companies offered me terrible slave labour deals in the beginning and I turned them down. I turned down [independent folk label] Vanguard. They wanted three albums a year or something. In the folk tradition, they come and stick a mike on the table in front of you, and they collect it in an hour and that's the album. And that output - I already saw Buffy [Saint-Marie] struggling under the weight of it. So I thought, no way. (6) She hired Elliot Roberts as her manager and apparently, assigned to him the task of getting the right deal. He said, It was a transitional period in society and in history and you either *got* it or you didn't get it. We had to search for people who got it and once we did and found them, we found that there were an awful lot of them but they were just either underground or just coming [up]. Society was just changing; the long-hairs were just coming in. The war was just becoming a major issue [and] civil rights were [in] transition. We didn't have a niche yet, there was a very small underground, [Greenwich] Village, everyone had their little quaint, Bohemian areas, but there were very few forums for artists like Joan or for poetry or poets. (7) Elliot kept looking for an understanding and flexible company. Karen noted, Major labels like Columbia - an obvious choice given that it was home to Bob Dylan - and RCA turned him down. (8) This next bit is crucial to understanding what releasing records means to Joni. Electra had another chance to sign Joni but again opted out. Danny Fields, an Electra A&R man, had urged the company to take her on. Electra's high profile and acclaimed roster of folk-rock and neo-folk artists seemed to hold out the promise of fame and fortune - until, says Fields, Joni asked to design her own album covers. The Electra art department refused and the corporate hierarchy supported the decision. 'They said, no way. Our art department does the covers. You write the songs, you sing the songs. That's as far as it goes,' Fields recalled. (9) Karen continues, Elliot Roberts flew out to California armed with twenty of Mitchell's songs - almost all of the material that would later appear on her first two albums, including 'Both Sides, Now', 'Chelsea Morning', 'Michael From Mountains', 'That Song About The Midway', 'I Had A King', and 'I Don't Know Where I Stand'. He didn't have to do much persuading: 'Those are some of the greatest songs in history. How could you not hear that and go, 'I'd take a risk on that person'? And that's really what it was... the songs spoke for themselves literally, they really did.' The success of the cover versions of Mitchell's songs had also put Roberts in a strong bargaining position and he was able to negotiate an almost unprecedented concession, particularly for a new artist; his client was given complete artistic control over her albums, ranging from the cover art to sleeve notes and musical content: 'That was the hard part. They were not used to anyone saying, 'It has nothing to do with the money, we need creative control.' We had a long-term goal, Joan had a long-term goal and knew how her record should sound. She hadn't learned the craft yet but she knew she was going to. It was new and a bit different for [Warners] to give up control but they could see that times were changing drastically... Mo [Ostin] was an innovative man, he did the same for Hendrix and Van Morrison and Van Dyke Parks in that era, where he let them have pretty much creative control. No one understood the music, there were all these young kids, ... [the major labels] understood that there was a whole new generation and they looked a lot different [from] the generations they had previously been selling music to.' (10) Joni naively and rightfully saw her future albums as art projects- each one a whole. With the early albums, her palette of colors was word play and open tunings on acoustic guitar. On the debut album, Song To A Seagull, Joni plays guitar almost exclusively. The first period I will call Early Portraits. The lyrics were largely about personal reflection or portraits of a single person. The characters, like Nathan LaFraneer, were usually set in isolation, not in interaction. 2. Master Storyteller In the second period, Master Storyteller, she rendered exquisitely detailed stories and worked with a larger palette of players and layers. Her expanded palette included different instruments, including dulcimer and a fully exploited piano. The stories were often about love engaged, entangled, dissolving, or disassembled. She included found objects like the Burundi warrior drummers. She consciously built a fusion-jazz band of selected innovators from Miles Davis's work. The Master Storyteller period includes a long, unbroken string of brilliant and innovative albums that no solo Beatle has yet matched. Her collaborators pushed her musically, taking her albums far beyond the beautiful-chick-with-a-guitar clichi to which she is forever bound in the public's eye. 3. Intellect Engaged The third period, Intellect Engaged, saw her create 'thinking-person takes on poverty, famine, AIDS, and the myriad collection of what the modern world considers problems. Joni had come to an uneasy but long-lasting truce with her secrets. She often reflected on irony. Her main collaborator during this period, her long-time husband Larry Klein, brought a cool reserve and technical polish to these albums. These are very much studio creations; she commissioned countless sax solos, and moved them around as desired. This period was characterized by guest vocals from artists who happened to be renting studio time down the hall. As if the kiln had cool, each project took longer to fire than the last. The third phase drew to a close as the divorce with Larry was happening and Turbulent Indigo was being formed in 1994. Divorce is never easy. Ripe to revisit her own pain, Joni immediately became inspired by a seemingly random tabloid article. She wrote about the societal misery inflicted upon unwed mothers in a bygone era. Kelly/Kilauren was suddenly in the foreground again. 4. In Pain No More The third and fourth eras overlap but they are very different. In my opinion, 'hits' and 'misses' were the beginning of the fourth phase, In Pain No More. Gone is the studied art work. Previously she revisited canvases over and over again, tweaking and daubing. In contrast, she used the first pun that popped into her head for the image on the cover of her collection of greatest hits - a person who has been hit by a car. For 'misses', she decided that mooning the viewer was a good way to express her distain for a public who had ignored her bravest work. The photo shoot for both albums was done in one day, as if on a single roll of film. The reckless packaging decisions are certainly a break with the endless polishing of the Intellect Engaged phase. The perfectionist who worked and reworked the sendup of van Goghs self-portrait for Turbulent Indigo, is not the same person who pasted up deliberately skewed, misshapen letters for her own greatest hits package. In the past, she took deliberate pains with sequencing an album too but she chose the cuts for Misses suddenly in a single day. Joni delights now in delegating and making decisions quickly. The greatest hits collection helped the press and the public put a frame around her so to speak, to see her in the context of artists who have made rich contributions. Joni's career began to get recognition again as an innovator. By September 1996, she had won Billboard Magazine's Century Award, a Grammy for Turbulent Indigo, and was reluctantly inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame. To borrow a line from Shawn Colvin, Joni was knee deep in accolades. I suggest that something eased inside her. Ever wary about press attention, in December 1996 she suddenly granted lots of interviews and talked at length about an old, private topic that was suddenly open for public discussion. Joni was searching for Kelly/Kilauren. Joni was looking to stop running, to right a wrong, to move on, to get past the pain. Next came the album, Taming The Tiger, and the rapid-fire approach continued. She invented a spirited carnival sound in Harlem In Havana, swallowed Donald Freed's words for The Crazy Cries Of Love, and threw a drink in Lead Balloon. The cohesiveness of the lyrics from the Master Storyteller phase has been replaced with broad brush strokes. Taking a scattershot approach to modern ills, Joni took swipes at lawyers, rapists, sunshine, pawnbrokers, and astronauts in a single song, No Apologies. Ironically, she even insulted those who provided reefer in the old days, fearing that drug lords are buying up the banks. The old brilliance shone through though. Read as text, this lyric beautifully expresses a new kinship, possibly a reunion. This is really something. People will be envious But our roles aren't clear So we musn't rush. Still, we're burning brightly, Clinging like fire to fuel. I'm grinning like a fool. Stay in touch. We should stay in touch. Oh! Stay in touch In touch Part of this is permanent. Part of this is passing, So we must be loyal and wary Not to give away too much Till we build a firm foundation. (11) Joni's secret daughter was revealed to the world in an Associated Press story on March 20, 1997. Perhaps the reunion brought a resolution to the anguish of giving up her daughter, Kelly/Kilauren. Perhaps she was relieved of hiding from her mother. Pain-free, her interest in writing evaporated. Who needs catharsis if you don't have a problem? Joni has often said, I sing my sorrow and I paint my joy. Here is the proof. Joni decided not to write for the next project. She hired Vince Mendoza to write new arrangements. She even delegated to Larry Klein the joy of picking songs. Both Sides Now was a critical success. Maybe having a more peaceful domestic arrangement replaced the 'fire in the belly' necessary to write new songs. Suddenly her first-ever sequel sounded like a good idea. The Internet community is wondering if the next one in the nest will glitter for [us] so. (12) The audience tapes of the Both Sides Now tour clearly show that Vince has cooked up more arrangements that are terrific. My personal favorite is the upcoming Judgement Of The Moon And Stars, (Ludwig's Tune). Even if she never writes another word, she has given the world so much superlative work that her place in history is assured. Of course, she was not aiming to secure a place in history; she was just working through her pain. For the Joni Mitchell Discussion List, Jim L'Hommedieu Sources - ------------ 1. For The Roses, JM 2. Shadows and Light: The Definitive Biography, Karen O'Brien, Virgin Books Ltd, London 2001, p 24 3. Ibid, p 25 4. King James Bible, Job 1:21 5. Shadows and Light: The Definitive Biography, p 48 6. Ibid, pp 63-64 7. Ibid, p 67 8. Ibid, p 66 9. Ibid, pp 66-67 10. Ibid, pp 68-69 11. Stay In Touch, JM 12. For The Roses, JM 13. California, JM Thanks to Stephanie Morrison for inspiring me. Deb Messling, Brenda of JMDL, Jerry Notaro, Catherine McKay, Vince Lavieri, and Mags Holden-Gross helped with research. As always, thanks to Les Irvin, Jim Johanson, Simon Montgomery, and the late Wally Breese for hosting and compiling the articles, discography, and appearances at jmdl.com & jonimitchell.com. Will ya take me as I am? Will ya take me as I am? Will ya? Will ya take me as I am? (13) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:24:00 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: WOHAM Sorry Bob. I was responding to the post from "Ash". Now I see that your response starts with "Well, I feel I must demur here." I see the change in writing style now but I didn't when I started writing. Without the quote marks it's tough to follow... Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:51:46 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: crosby, nash and f*cking Jewel You make a good point about the dublin walk...not everyone is willing to play the 'celebrity role' to strangers 24/7...that is why you often here people say they like living in nyc or la or even sb cuz folks leave them alone... I can see how you'd from an opinion of someone you haven't met from what you have heard or read...but its never the whole story...as far as graham nash goes I have to say I couldn't disagree with you more... I have met him & he impressed me as one of the most humble & generous & sincere men I have ever met (celeb or not). He came up & introduced himself to me which was amazing as I am nobody (in the world of celebs) & his loyalty to croz is legendary...we should all be so lucky to have someone like nash as our friend...also he is an amazing harmony singer... , generous & as high quality human being as one can be. you are way off on your a >I have never met David Crosby but I believe he's a prick--- on the other hand, what would you do if you were walking through Dublin and someone else walks up to you only because you were in a famous, be it somewhat mediocre folk-rock band once. But that is not my point. My point is that when I was watching WOHAM I was annoyed not by David Crosby -- who at least has a kind of dignified respect for Joni -- but with Nash. I think he is a mediocre prick.< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:41:01 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Joni, Dylan, Judy et.al. covered in "Eight Miles High" http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~28~1719604,00.html Does anybody else love the song "Eight Miles High" too? It's the coolest. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:16:58 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: dangers of live performances (NJC) hi thought some folks might get a chuckle or two from this: THE SA PERFORMERS GUIDE TO THE DANGERS INHERENT IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY Herewith, a cautionary glance at some of the dire hazards associated with live performance, courtesy of The Nimbus Experience: (1) BPFB (Bands Playing For Bands) - To practise hard and struggle for a gig at a good spot and then to show up and realise that your band will merely be performing for other bands who will either want to see you die on stage or keep checking their watches in wait for their own turn, can be a somewhat unsettling experience. This condition can cause slight discomfort. (2) PTS (Pearls To Swine) - Again, a hard road of practices and sweat can sometimes lead to a disappointing performance in front of an audience who did not come to see the band. If you find yourself trying to shout the lyrics over the table discussing stock options, you may have a case of PTS. May cause deflation of the chest. (3) BYOA (Bring Your Own Audience) - Now, I have actually heard a venue owner say, 'But where are your audience?' To which I replied, 'But, where are your audience?' but what I wanted to say was, 'I hope little bugs eat you from the inside out.' This condition causes weakness of the knees. (4) PAPOO (PA system POO) - Ever shown up at a gig to find that the PA system may well be the HI FI you threw out when you were sixteen? The one you got rid of when you decided to get a "Real" sound system? The PAPOO has got you! Take ten steps back and fall on your botty. (5) B&B MIXERS (Beavis & Butthead Mixers) - So the venue is great, their sound is great, the crowd is great and who is behind the mixing board? That's right! It's DJ George W Bush - smart as a psychotic snail. He uses the old 'start mixing with everything at full volume and see what happens' approach. The band stare at him from the stage with all their mind-control power to no avail. A headache may result. (6) A MURPHY (The standard Murphys Law type show) - The microphone keeps shocking your lower lip, you lose two guitar strings within a half-hour, the feedback fairy pays a visit and half-way through the second song, the power trips out. Treat with alcohol. (7) WA (Wrong Audience) - Let's say you're a pleasant pop band with some nice harmonies and like to dress in matching stripes on stage. How sweet. Unfortunately, the venue you are playing at is having a Slash Metal evening for the local bike gang. It is gradually becoming a "slash the artistes" audience. May cause severe intestinal pain. (8) BEATLES - If a member of the audience calls out, "Can you play Hey Jude?" then you have a case of the Beatles. Avoid at all costs. Cover songs are the colon cancer of South African bands. (9) FMD (Frustrated Musicians Delight) - You've met him. The guy in the third row squinting crazily at every move of your finger over the fret board. You can hear him thinking, "Yeh, that's just a basic C chord. Yeh, that's just a G#." You'd love to hate him but you can't because you remember when you were him. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:42:30 EST From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and heavy loads Michael in Quebec wrote: > Coincidence, the link Les just posted called A Darker Shade of Blue (1994) > that also makes reference to Joni's excess baggage. Strange echoes... > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=226 > Here's hoping she learns to lighten that heavy load. This article from years past said to me that Joni does know how to deal successfully with a heavy load. Cool that her experience led her to understand Job and that she cares equally about women and men regarding liberation. She's just so awesome! Yes, I am very taken with her as my husband has pointed out to me. Joni is an example of living life on life's terms as we say in AA. She's real and free. What people say about her or how they interpret quotes from her isn't necessarily the way she is. Assumptions, especially those based on gossip, are about as grounded as air. Living in the joy of Joni, Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:03:40 -0400 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: other lists (NJC) Someone mentioned the Jefferson Airplane and the CSN discussion lists. I'd like to visit them. What are their URLs or addresses? I was a big Airplane fan in my youth, and Surrealistic Pillow was one of the first albums I ever purchased (at WT Grants in Wyckoff, New Jersey, for $2.49). I saw them at the Fillmore East around the time that Crown of Creation was released. Always felt that the last true Airplane record was Volunteers. Sorta lost interest after Spencer Dryden left the band and the screechy violins started. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:32:16 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: other lists (NJC) Actually, I thought the sound quality on Volunteers is very muddy and by far the worst engineered of the Airplane records. I know it's not a popular notion, but I think Bark is a much better record. Papa John Creach joined at pretty much the same time that Marty Balin departed. After that, the 'Plane broke into factions... the Kantner/Slick side versus the Hot Tuna side... Thirty Seconds Over Winterland was still a great live album... partly recorded here in Chicago at the Auditorium Theatre, despite the title. I saw that show and it was a great one... where, also, Grace Slick flashed her tits... The first Jefferson Starship tour had both Papa John Creach and Marty Balin on board, that was something special... I saw that too. Bruce Kimerer wrote: >Someone mentioned the Jefferson Airplane and the CSN discussion lists. I'd >like to visit them. What are their URLs or addresses? > >I was a big Airplane fan in my youth, and Surrealistic Pillow was one of the >first albums I ever purchased (at WT Grants in Wyckoff, New Jersey, for >$2.49). I saw them at the Fillmore East around the time that Crown of >Creation was released. > >Always felt that the last true Airplane record was Volunteers. Sorta lost >interest after Spencer Dryden left the band and the screechy violins >started. > >Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:37:24 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: DonOvan njc Fauchja chided: > > And you gon't love Donovan's songs any more??? Shame on you kakki! I know, I know!! ;-) I saw the typo after it was sent and was going to correct it but seriously was in a hurry to get out of smoke-choked L.A. (Stayed away at the beach overnight to get fresh air to no avail - even there the ash was raining down and I couldn't breathe - hack, hack). And I should have added that Croz named his daughter Donovan! > --with all deference to our lovely Kakki, as usual and deservedly so, I > never understood the Donovan thing. I hated the hits and that is about all > I heard from him. Was it a female thing kakki or what? Maybe I just didn't > understand him or his lyrics. That's O.K. Mack! I'm sure it was a female thing - especially a 12-14 year old female thing at the time! He seemed kind of like a fantasy prince to my young heart - and I also thought he was a throwback to the Irish bards. I also think Joni was somewhat similar to Donovan in her early songs and lyrics (magical, mystical, fantastical) and that was why I was initially drawn to her, too. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:54:40 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: other lists (NJC) David wrote: > The first Jefferson Starship tour had both Papa John Creach and Marty > Balin on board, that was something special... I saw that too. When was that tour? I saw them all (including Jack Casady) at a little place by the beach here in '93. Hung out with them backstage and got to meet Papa John Creach and his wife, Kantner and daughter China. It was fantastic, except Marty threw me off a bit with a bad blonde die job (but his voice was divine ;-) Bruce asked about the JA and CSN lists. Maybe he already has the answer but just in case. I used to lurk on the JA list long ago and it was pretty cool reading. It was the 2400 Fulton list, but I don't know if that is still the one. Here's a link to all the info http://grove.ufl.edu/~number6/Jefferson.Airplane/airplane.html The CSN list is the Lee Shore - see here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lee-shore/ Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:59:27 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: other lists (NJC) Red Octopus, must've been about 1975. I was actually lucky enough to have first row tix for that show. kakki wrote: >David wrote: > > > >>The first Jefferson Starship tour had both Papa John Creach and Marty >>Balin on board, that was something special... I saw that too. >> >> > >When was that tour? I saw them all (including Jack Casady) at a little >place by the beach here in '93. Hung out with them backstage and got to >meet Papa John Creach and his wife, Kantner and daughter China. It was >fantastic, except Marty threw me off a bit with a bad blonde die job (but >his voice was divine ;-) > >Bruce asked about the JA and CSN lists. Maybe he already has the answer but >just in case. I used to lurk on the JA list long ago and it was pretty cool >reading. It was the 2400 Fulton list, but I don't know if that is still the >one. Here's a link to all the info >http://grove.ufl.edu/~number6/Jefferson.Airplane/airplane.html > >The CSN list is the Lee Shore - see here: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lee-shore/ > >Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:07:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 27 1987: Joni performed at the "Cowboys for Indians and Justice for Leonard Peltier" benefit in front of an estimated 9,000 people at the Pacific Amphitheatre in Costa Mesa, California. Joni concentrated on recent material, previewing a new song ("Lakota") and offering a dramatic rendition of "Tax Free." More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=161 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:07:18 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 27 On October 27 the following articles were published: 1994: "They Repaved Paradise" - New York Daily News (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=218 1999: "Mitchell Completes Album Of Standards" - Billboard (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=436 2002: "Graham Nash talks about the moment " - NPR Weekend Edition Sunday (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=975 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #531 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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