From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #520 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 17 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 520 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: njc Felon voting rights ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: felon voting rights (NJC) ["kakki" ] lakota ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc Julius ["kakki" ] Re: njc Addiction and legalization ["kakki" ] Re: lakota ["kakki" ] Re: Eastern Rain ["Paul Castle" ] Joni joke ["Paul Castle" ] Joni joke ["Paul Castle" ] Re: Eastern Rain [Deb Messling ] Re: lakota [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni & Joan in Rolling Stone [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Re: Eastern Rain [dean2302@fsmail.net] Marlins, Cubs, and Yankees oh my(njc) [waytoblu ] Joni @ PBS show Perma-Vine Offer... goes to South Africa! [Emiliano ] joni mention ["J.David Sapp" ] Re: Jonifest 03 [Steve Polifka ] Re: Jonifest 03 ["J.David Sapp" ] RE: njc Julius ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Re: Eastern Rain [Deb Messling ] RE: njc Addiction and legalization ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] RE: Red Sox win!!! (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Red Sox lose!!! (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] something light & fun NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Converted to Joni ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) Now Lose! ["Scott and Jody" ] Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! ["amelio747" ] Re: Eastern Rain [Gary Zack ] RE: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: wodehouse njc ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Eastern Rain ["amelio747" ] Re: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! ["amelio747" Subject: Re: njc Felon voting rights sorry for the lengthy post...here is what i wish i had said...the subject is important to me because i think there is a lot of misunderstanding about addiction & such...so just delete if you don't want to read all of this... >I agree that it's a pity that people destroy themselves. It's a waste. It's not what we're "here for". It's sad. It's a bad thing.< another way of looking at this is that people have a problem that can't be readily seen (i.e. physical or emotional pain, learning disabilities, mental illness, etc.) & they self medicate to allievate the pain...however the substance (legal or illegal) they use is something they soon find to be addictive to them either because the substance itself has an addicting quality to it or they are predisposed to addiction...or both....thus the disease model (in part) >Yeah, the medical community thinks of addiction sometimes as a disease. They also think of it sometimes as a changeable behavioral challenge that can often be overcome. But the thing the medical community *consistently says is that addiction is self-destructive.< it is medically classified as a disease so i'd disagree with the word sometimes...i do know that not everyone buys this definition but it is understandable if you think of it like diabetes...yes the behavior is definately changeable just like someone with diabetes can change their behavior to get healthy...& if they don't they will die... i think in this culture we have been taught over the years to see addiction as a moral failing or weakness of character...something that indicates the person is 'bad' in some way... the fact that it runs in families like yours jim (& mine) indicates a genetic factor... >Why would we want people who are so profoundly self-destructive to vote on bond issues? What kind of responsible choice could one make if one destroy one's self? If you are self-destructive, I don't *care* what you think about supporting clean water with public money! What addict is going to have an informed opinion about options for generating electricity? About funding alternatives to replace aging bridges? Are there any civic-minded felons with agendas on nuclear power plants? I think self-destruction and civic-mindedness are opposites. What felon believes that we have to act responsibly to give our children good educations?< while the act is certainly destructive, i believe the intent of the addict is usually to normalize their brain...& in their addiction they actually feel normal (or at least not in pain so for them not in pain becomes normal)...but for those on the outside, it looks like & actually is destructive...if you want to talk about self destructive people not being allowed to make responsible choices, then how do you view those who smoke? certainly this is a substance that has been proven to be destructive...do you think smokers are intentionally trying to hurt themsleves or is it about something else? >Would some good come of it for the felon? Would it pave the way to self-awareness, cleaning up, and recovery if they were allowed to vote?< i don't understand the reverse logic question here...my argument is that people who are arrested on many drug felony charges should not be banned from voting for their entire lifetimes...if they clean up they will probably be leading very productive lives & deserve the respect & dignity of voting & making decisions about their world...if they stay in their addiction one of the last things they will care about or do is vote...so its pretty self selecting there... >I think revoking a felon's privilege to vote makes a pro*duct*ive and pro*tect*ive dividing line. It separates people who are destructive from those who are not. I don't want to hand the keys to the Republic to people who can't keep a needle out of their arm. I don't think that's harsh. I think it's being clear-headed.< i can only gather from this idea of separating that your definition of addiction is someone who is destructive...my definition is that addiction is a disease & yes a byproduct of using is destruction (of their lives & everyone who loves them) but it is not done on a concious level...in fact quite the opposite...also, addiction is a disease of perception...the addict thinks they are normalizing themsleves but really they are not...since they are in a fog of self medication they can't see the harm being done...& often it takes some harsh consequences before they get it & come to terms with the fact that they can't control the substance & instead that it controls them...people who do not have an addiction have a very hard time understanding why the addict can't just stop or will themselves to stop... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:33:46 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: felon voting rights (NJC) Hi Darice - you wrote: > If my memory is correct, there was a contention that Florida purged their voting >roster by matching names of felons on a nation-wide list to names of registered >Florida voters. They hired Choicepoint to do the searches. It seems to me like they picked the best vendor out there since Choicepoint has the most extensive databases around and was actually started by a group in the CIA that went commercial with its investigative databases. The problem I had was with the allegation that Florida did not allow Choicepoint to use its own databases and made them use free internet searches to gather the information in order to save money. If you think about that, it's ridiculous. If you already have all the best databases at hand, why would you do dubious internet searches to save money? It's like telling someone to build a house with an old fashioned saw, a hammer and nails instead of using a power saw and nail gun because it saves money in electricity. You would need 5 times the manpower and hours to build that house and it would be far more costly. You also would not want to use deliberately faulty methods because it's going to cost you a whole lot more in the long run from lawsuits from the wrongly disenfranchised. >Some of these voters may have been convicted of a felony in another state, satisfied >that state's requirements to be vote (jail term, probation, parole, etc) and then been >allowed to register and vote. They may then have moved to FLorida and registered to >vote. Does Florida bar all felons from other states from voting in Florida? Good question. Here's another thought - maybe they wanted to check on the registered Florida voters who moved to other states and were voting by absentee ballot. But here is the sticky question - if a felon goes to register to vote in Florida, wouldn't you think there is a part on the registration where you would attest that you have not been convicted of a felony? Would one bother to fill it out anyway or maybe lie and say you were not a felon? Say someone did that and then gave their address. When the state goes to double-check their voter registration database against their felon/criminal database they would either find that address or find the person was no longer at that address. To find the next known address, even in another state, is pretty easy to do on many databases. You would never need to just randomly pull up all John Does who now live in Memphis and throw them all in the pile. Databases are far too sophisticated to have to resort to that. > The first these people would know of the problem was when they turned up to vote, >and found their name had been removed. If the Florida poll workers are anything like >the ones I have encountered in California; they would have no idea of how the names >were dropped and no real idea of how to resolve the situation. Wouldn't they just be given a provisional ballot (to be verified later) like they do in California? > But I have not seen a followup on this contention, and would be very interested in >one if someone else has seen it. What I have found (and there are a number of articles out there that address this) is that the ACLU filed a class action lawsuit against Florida on behalf of all voters who were wrongly disenfranchised in the 2000 election. The ACLU and Florida came to a fairly quick settlement and it was reported that both sides were happy with the outcome. It was found that around 2,800 people in Florida had been wrongly disenfranchised from voting but it was not because of this felon database issue alone. It was also for people who couldn't get to the polls in time because of blocked roads where construction was going on, for people with disabilities, for the elderly and others who couldn't negotiate a particular type of ballot and a number of other reasons. The idea that Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris and republican operatives deliberatly engineered the whole thing to block democrat votes doesn't hold water logically. How could they know months in advance that the election would be that close and that Florida would be pivotal in the electoral vote? How could they know months in advance that they only needed a few thousand votes purged from the voter rolls in order to put the slim margin for Bush over the top? Really - if you just needed to steal a few thousand votes for Bush to win, there are far less expensive, cruder and more efficient ways to do it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:43:43 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: lakota jim we are definately having communication problems today! it was not my friend nor was it anyone who thought joni was exploiting the lakota people... what i was trying to say was that if you read the lakota website you will see how someone of than nation could possibly view it as exploitation (there is a long explanation their on this idea) ...anyway it was just something i threw out for discussion...i have known many native americans & they are very sensitive about others using their ideas & spirituality for profit in any way shape or form...its a legitimate question i proposed i am pretty sure...it sounds like joni got permission but still some of the lakota may not agree with iron eyes cody (is he a spiritual leader of the lakota? i think someone said he was a movie actor?) >Yeah, tell your friend that she invited Iron Eyes Cody to add his song to the front of it. He listened to it with his eyes closed, then agreed to help out. I'll repost the liner notes from THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS in a separate email. How could someone think for a moment that Joni was exploiting the Lakota nation when she wrote a song about their situation?! By that yardstick, every telethon is exploiting people. All the best, Lama< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:51:18 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) thanks for telling us about your dad & mom mark...it is so sad but so sweet at the same time...i am now root root rooting for the cubs to win !! sorry vince...(unless the game is already over...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:02:56 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: njc Julius Kate called out: > hey, julius where are you? He's getting ready to celebrate his birthday weekend at the Bridge School concert with Neal Young and CS and N, Willie Nelson, Counting Crows and many more!! Happy early birthday Julius! Have an incredible time and give us a report. Love, Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:11:43 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: njc Addiction and legalization I think addiction to drugs and other substances is a type of disability. I think people should not be criminalized for drug abuse alone - they should be helped into treatment. If the commit other crimes, such as robbery, theft, murder because of their addiction then that is another story. I think drugs should be legalized and controlled. That would stop a lot of other crime associated with drug use. I'm surprised no one here has yet mentioned the U.S. Supreme Court's recent ruling upholding that all Western states who have voted for legalization of medical marijuana may now go forward without any further interference from the Federal government. This is huge. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:27:58 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: lakota During Pazfest weekend some of us watched a video Paz had of Joni singing and dancing to Lakota with several members and children of a tribe in, I believe, Canada. Possibly the Meti tribe? For some reason I recall something about that tribe being a part of the Lakota people. It was quite something and very special. Has anyone else seen this video and have a better recall than me? Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:44:48 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Re: Eastern Rain Kevin wrote: > I'd love to know how she replied as ER has become a real favourite of mine. and Bob M wrote: > I agree with you, it's a beautiful song, and that Eastern > tuning and chord structure gives it a unique sound to be sure. Fairport > Convention agrees with us as they picked it as one of the many Joni songs > they covered early on. Looks like Joni didn't agree with us, though In her WMMR interview with Gene Shay (see http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=945 she said: > JM: I wrote -- that was just after I got back from London. > It was pure nonsense and I can't remember anything > about it now. According to Fairport's Iain Matthews, this is how they came to record "Eastern Rain", "Chelsea Morning," and "I Don't Know Where I Stand" before Joni released them. "We were quite fortunate really, because in Joe [Boyd, FC's producer] and his direct link to Warners at the time, we had a private source to whatever American material we wanted. He was responsible for many of our early influences. Were it not for him, I may not have listened to Moby Grape, or Buffalo Springfield for quite some time. Joni Mitchell too, Joe had a direct line to her publishing demos and supplied us with whatever we could handle. I'm sure the Joe pipeline was how Sandy [Denny] got "Who Knows" to Judy Collins." Best to all PaulC - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: 16 October 2003 19:28 Subject: Re: Eastern Rain > I'd love to know how she replied as ER has become a real favourite of > mine.> > > Hi Kevin! > > I think that same recording (or at least another "Eastern Rain") is on the > WMMR tapes as well. I'll hit the vaults and see if there's any additional > info available. I agree with you, it's a beautiful song, and that Eastern > tuning and chord structure gives it a unique sound to be sure. Fairport > Convention agrees with us as they picked it as one of the many Joni songs > they covered early on. > > Bob > > NP: Blue Magic, "Sideshow" > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:04:27 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Joni joke From the same Gene Shay interview @ http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=945 GS: Have you ever heard Joni sing with a cookie in her mouth? (Laughs.) GORDON LIGHTFOOT: No, how does it go? GENE SHAY: It's called "The Bagel Game." JM: (Laughs.) Oh, wow. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:14:02 +0100 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Joni joke PC: Have you ever heard Joni sing with a frog in her throat?" JMDL: No, how does that go? PC: It's called "Refuge of The Toads" PaulC (going back to bed!!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:26:10 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Eastern Rain Joni's comment about "pure nonsense" referred to London Bridge, not Eastern Rain. And I think most of us probably agree with her assessment. At 11:44 AM 10/17/2003 +0100, you wrote: >Looks like Joni didn't agree with us, though > >In her WMMR interview with Gene Shay (see >http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=945 >she said: > > > JM: I wrote -- that was just after I got back from London. > > It was pure nonsense and I can't remember anything > > about it now. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:39:17 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: lakota *Has anyone else seen this video and have a better recall than me?* Kakki, are you referring to the music video she made for Lakota - it shows her dancing & interacting with a Lakota tribe. If so, it's included on the "Come In From The Cold" video collection. That's the only thing I've seen that matches your description. Bob NP: Shelby Lynne, "I'm Alive" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:55:02 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Joni & Joan in Rolling Stone Joni and Joan got a half page each together in a Borders add featuring their new Box Sets. It's great to see some advertising being done. To bad it's not the record co. promoting them. Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:03:10 +0200 (CEST) From: dean2302@fsmail.net Subject: Re: Re: Eastern Rain Thanks Bob and Paul. I guess that Joni thinks it might be a little too 'derivative' like some of her other early stuff. I still think it's lovely though. Maybe because Joni wrote it after she returned from London she experienced some of our depressing U.K. 'Eastern' rain. LOL ~Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:15:09 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: waytoblu Subject: Marlins, Cubs, and Yankees oh my(njc) Well anyway, I thought it would be a nice lift for this 82 year old man who has for all intents and purposes lost the companion of 56 of those 82 years if the Cubs could at least get into the World Series. So to be quite honest, whether it was meant in jest or not, all of this slagging of the Cubs and of Cubs fans has really gotten on my nerves. Thanks for sharing this Mark. I was of course disappointed to see the Red Sox lose last night but after all its just a game and it was a thrilling one at that. I hope your dad enjoyed watching the playoffs as much as I did. I would like to salute the Cubs, Red Sox, and the Braves for great seasons. The fall is here and the sky is beautiful. Its good to be alive. Victor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:23:41 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Joni @ PBS show Perma-Vine Offer... goes to South Africa! Hi, dears! The wonderful original disc that John had sent to me it's already in its way to our mutual friend Ron, who's going to reoffer it... as soon as he gets it! Have a really Nice weekend! Emiliano NP: Alison, Elvis Costello, 9/10/83 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:34:36 -0400 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Marlins, Cubs, and Yankees oh my(njc) Victor writes: > The fall is here and the sky is beautiful. Its good to be > alive. Unless, of course, you're from Boston. No joy in Beantown today. The curse lives on, from Babe to Bucky to Buckner to Boone. Even the subway train this morning was silent, with people frowning into their newspapers moreso than usual. - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:49:06 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Jonifest 03 I heard some more great covers last night: Michael Paz - Chinese Cafe Ashara - Come in from the Cold, loved the background vocals supporting Ashara also. Steve Polifka - Dog Eat Dog. Great job. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:55:07 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: joni mention According to Rolling Stone Daily: Songs by NORAH JONES and JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE will be featured on the "Love Actually" soundtrack, due November 11th. The set also features JONI MITCHELL's re-recording of "Both Sides Now" and WYCLEF JEAN's "Take Me As I Am," a track from his upcoming album "The Preacher's Son." peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:18:43 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Jonifest 03 Gee, thanks David. Paz' Chinese Cafe and Ashara's CIFTC were two of my favorite performances that weekend also... Steve p.s. And you know there may be more... At 10:49 AM 10/17/2003 -0500, J.David Sapp wrote: >I heard some more great covers last night: > >Michael Paz - Chinese Cafe > >Ashara - Come in from the Cold, loved the background vocals supporting Ashara >also. > >Steve Polifka - Dog Eat Dog. > >Great job. > >peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:51:45 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: Re: Jonifest 03 Steve - I thought you knocked it out of the park reminding me of Joni's Rock Master DED. I'm assuming you've heard that - if not you're in for a treat. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:47:18 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc Julius is it too early to wish him a happy birthday? i don't want to keep the birthday fairy from doing its thing...what a way to celebrate! happiest of birthdays to you julius! i sure miss your presence here! >Kate called out: > hey, julius where are you? >He's getting ready to celebrate his birthday weekend at the Bridge School concert with Neal Young and CS and N, Willie Nelson, Counting Crows and many more!! Happy early birthday Julius! Have an incredible time and give us a report. Love, Kakki< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:46:53 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Re: Eastern Rain Did you read my clarifying post? Joni was referring to London Bridge, not Eastern Rain, when she called a song "pure nonsense." It's a little hard to tell from the transcript, but on tape it's clear. The confusion stems from the fact that she and Gene were kind of talking over each other. JM: "London Bridge." God, that's years ago that I did that. GS: Yeah, a lot of people called and said, yeah, what about the old songs? How come -- JM: Well, they're like old paintings. It's like if you're an art student, you have a portfolio full of paintings and you look back over it and you say, "my God, when did I do that? How did I do that?" And you can't identify with it after a while. Some songs -- some songs that are -- I'm afraid are lost until I reidentify with them. GS: Isn't it a shame that a lot of contemporary singer-songwriters, they write -- say you write 20 songs, just to use any number and they record their first album and they leave off some of the songs that everybody liked, and then they sort of move on to new things and feel the same way about their old songs, but people still, you know, never heard -- for instance, you're going to record a second album, and you're not sure at this point I don't think if you're going to record "From Both Sides, Now" which you haven't recorded. JM: Oh, I think I'll record that. GS: But you may never record "London Bridge" or -- JM: I don't even remember how I did that. That was really strange the way I used to do that. GS: Or "Eastern Rain." JM: I wrote -- that was just after I got back from London. It was pure nonsense and I can't remember anything about it now. At 04:03 PM 10/17/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Thanks Bob and Paul. I guess that Joni thinks it might be a little too >'derivative' like some of her other early stuff. I still think it's lovely >though. >Maybe because Joni wrote it after she returned from London she experienced >some of our depressing U.K. 'Eastern' rain. LOL > >~Kevin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:14:25 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc Addiction and legalization thanks kakki, this upholding on medical marijuana is encouraging...i agree with you on the bigger issue of drugs...fortunately so did many california voters...here is a bit more about the recent legislation...one of the fiscal benefits is that it has saved taxpayers more $$ than anticipated: 'The Substance Abuse and Crime Prevention Act, also known as Proposition 36, was passed by 61% of California voters on November 7, 2000. This initiative allows first- and second-time, non-violent, simple drug possession offenders the opportunity to receive substance abuse treatment instead of incarceration. Proposition 36 allocates $120 million annually for five and a half years to pay for treatments services. However, due to the large disparity between incarceration and treatment costs this initiative will save California taxpayers $1.5 billion over the five year period of time.' http://www.prop36.org/ 'According to UCLAs first annual study on Proposition 36, embargoed for release on Thursday, July 17, 2003, Proposition 36 is affecting more people than projected, and saving more money that was predicted. Experts from the Drug Policy Alliance and the Campaign for New Drug Policies estimate that, because of the high cost of incarceration in comparison to the low cost of treatment, California saved at least $275 million in taxpayer money during the first year of Prop 36 enforcement' http://www.prop36.org/ >I think addiction to drugs and other substances is a type of disability. I think people should not be criminalized for drug abuse alone - they should be helped into treatment.< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:19:29 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) Kate - problem for me with stories like that is that it assumes no other teams have fans who are elderly who have one last wish to see their team in the world series -- anyone over the age of 58 has seen their cubs in the world series - I have a really good fiend Chris whose father is dying of liver cancer and won't make the month and his father wanted to see the White Sox in it one more time - anyone over the age of 44 has seen the white sox in a series - every team has fans who one more time would love to see their team do it - that is why the play Damn Yankees was such a hit - I am sure right now Marlins and Yankee fans have parents/friends/whatever dying and are happy to make it one more time - then one team will lose and their fans can complain to God that their team didn't win one last time - I feel sympathy for the the death or impending loss of anyone but I do suggest no one will appeal to my heartstrings by assuming one team only has the rights to all the hearts and flowers. That is what gets so resented, to be honest. My Mom died without seeing her cubs again in a world series. My father is one step closer to the grave without seeing his cubs in a world series one more time. My friend Chris' father is about to die without seeing the Sox in the series one more time, and my friend Jim's mother is getting to that point. Since God could not answer the prayers of fans of all 30 MLB teams for their elderly and dying loved ones, God answered none of their prayers and it was left up to the teams on the field. Vince "thanks for telling us about your dad & mom mark...it is so sad but so sweet at the same time...i am now root root rooting for the cubs to win !! sorry vince...(unless the game is already over...) "thanks for telling us about your dad & mom mark...it is so sad but so sweet at the same time...i am now root root rooting for the cubs to win !! sorry vince...(unless the game is already over...)" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:27:09 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] Joni & Joan in Rolling Stone thanks mingus, that is great...i am not sure how those borders adds work but it could be via record company $$...from what i recall, record companies pay for placement in those displays you see in borders > Joni and Joan got a half page each together in a Borders add featuring their new Box Sets. It's great to see some advertising being done. To bad it's not the record co. promoting them. Peace Mingus < ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:07:53 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: felon voting rights (NJC) hi i havent read too much of this thread, but it's preferable to the one about what appears to be baseball fans at the moment so here goes. how can anyone even think of justifying the withdrawal of voting rights from felons? especially ones who are out of jail? to "protect" the nation - from what - we're talking a nation that can vote in a wrestler as governor. and an actor as governor, and the village idiot as president, oh, and wait, wasnt there something about an ex actor with um, whats it again, that disease where they lose their memory!!! i mean, c'mon - really, what are they gonna do - vote in a childrapist??? be real - the true threat is way more real from corrupt politicians ( and imho opinion the only time a politicians honest is when hes scared of being caught). i really dont have any alternative to offer up tho.......... democracy is all about government by the people of the people (or however that quote goes from that constitution thingy that you guys really got right. it is *not* about cutting peoples civic rights 'cause we dont think theyre worthy. whats next - britney spears fans are obviously stoopid so they shouldnt get to vote??? (bad example i guess - theyre mostly too young to vote anyway - but you get my point im sure) or all muslims cant vote 'cause a couple of nuts did 9/11??? theres no point in arguing the merits - get back to basics - yes or no - are you a democracy or not? sorry about the rant, but while there may be a couple of flaws there, you guys in usa do have something pretty damn good going - dont let some self serving politicians destroy it by spreading fear and misinformation............. ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:32:53 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Red Sox win!!! (njc) maybe i should stay out of this but my remark was really done in a lighthearted way...i was moved by mark's post about his parents (not at all related to the baseball part)...i have no loyalties or understanding about such things & while i can respect how people are passionate about sports i am baffled when it gets into resentment...from what i have experienced of death, it changes people's priorities big time & even for the most avid fans i would guess that a baseball game is probably not all that important in the larger scheme of things...(ducking now, forgive me rev!) >I feel sympathy for the the death or impending loss of anyone but I do suggest no one will appeal to my heartstrings by assuming one team only has the rights to all the hearts and flowers. That is what gets so resented, to be honest. < ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:51:44 -0400 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Red Sox lose!!! (njc) Kate writes: > ...(ducking now, forgive me rev!) Forgive Vince's baseball-related bitchiness, Kate, but I think Marcie's faucet needs a plumber, if you catch my drift! Also, I couldn't stand the old subject line anymore, so I changed it. - --Bob, wondering if baseball makes anyone other than Yankees fans truly happy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:23:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: something light & fun NJC http://www.suite101.com/files/mysites/AskAlice/Clock.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:39:20 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Converted to Joni Hi all, A friend of mine who is a freelance jazz music critic let me tell her about Joni and why I love her music so much. Some time went by and the subject came up again. She surprises me by stating that she went out and bought "Misses" because it looks so interesting. I was so excited!!! i had a chance to tell her how how special Joni's lyrics are to me and how she paints words and ideas in my head like she does on a canvas. Another Joni convert! Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:03:45 -0400 From: "Scott and Jody" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) Now Lose! Dear Victor and Vince, Thanks for the kindness earlier, but I'm really an O's fan. C'mon, Baltimore = Cal Ripken = Baby Blues like you wouldn't believe. Just Kidding LOL!!! Just trying to lighten things up! When we were growing up, we went to both ballparks. I later became aware of the rivalry between the cubs and sox, but never realized how DEEP it went. I've always loved both ballclubs. We lived in the Swiss part of Chicago I guess. We were thrilled that the cubs had gotten to this point. I'd be just as excited if the White sox made it. I agree with Victor in that I appreciate each player. Congrats to Greg Maddux! It doesn't help that I married a Rotisserie (fantasy) baseball player. For the last 10 years I rooted for the "T.H. Low Rents" Ball club....a division of the Cool Ranch League. Baseball is not like it used to be. There's so much trading of players. It's difficult to be devoted to ONE team. I still haven't read every post on this subject, but I have to go. Bye for now, jody - ----- Original Message ----- From: "waytoblu" To: ; ; ; Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) > >Professionally, I am sure Miami Dolphin fan don't cheer for > >Tampa Bay and the reverse. College wise, do the Florida > >State fans cheer for Florida while they cheer for Miami U? > >Hardly. > > I'd have to disagree here Rev.. I'm a Florida Gator alum, and while I'll > always cheer for the gators when they play Florida State or Uof Miami, > I'm glad when FSU or Miami wins the championship if my team can't win. > Same with the pros in any sport. Sure there are fans that just hate the > other team and would never want them to win under any circumstances, but > I consider them angry fanatics. Me too. I don't hate any teams and > root for whoever I feel like. I do know baseball, chose to root for the > Cubs after they knocked the Braves out and I don't care what anyone > thinks. Like Jimmy, I'm not from Chicago so I'm not part of this nasty > rivalry thing(we simply don't understand- we're not trying to stir > anything up) , I don't care anything about the media and don't base my > decisions on what the media wants, and thirdly, both Jody, Scott, and her > dad are all big Cubs fans so more than anything else, I was hoping the > Cubs would win so that they would be thrilled and elated. Jody knows I am > a Braves fan and I remember before the final game 5, she said she didn't > know who she wanted to win, that she was rooting for both teams. Jody > is one of my favorite people in the world. :~} So you see, it's possible > to enjoy sports without talking trash and buying into any bitter > rivalries. One thing I like about this list is that everyone has their > different opinions but for the most part, we can all get along. So I'm > going to root for the Red Sox tonight because I want to. My condolences > go out to Dusty Baker and the Cubs...they put up a good fight but I think > the key turning point was getting shut out by Josh Beckett and the > Marlins at Pro Player Stadium. Congratulations to the Florida Marlins > who have some amazing talent in Cabrera, Beckett, and Dantre Willis. A > late congratulations to Greg Maddux of the Atlanta Braves who broke the > record previously held by Cy Young by having 16 consecutive seasons with > 15 wins or more! Victor, who truly loves the game of baseball ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 17:06:18 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: Joni & Joan in Rolling Stone Thank you for mentioning that, I was about to post on it - the ads are very beautiful and I thought they were great, tasteful ads. Vince MINGSDANCE@aol.com wrote: > Joni and Joan got a half page each together in a Borders add featuring >their new Box Sets. It's great to see some advertising being done. To bad it's not >the record co. promoting them. > >Peace >Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 22:27:17 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! My sister Ally and James have gone to Hawaii for 2 weeks so I am home all by myself :( Anyway I was bored so I did a Joni Mitchell ringtone for a Nokia mobile! "Urge For Going" 4d2 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 4#a1 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 4a1 4e2 4e2 4#c2 4e2 4e2 4#c2 4e2 4a1 4e2 4e2 4#c2 4e2 4e2 4#c2 4- 4d2 4f2 4e2 4dt 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 4#a1 4f2 4e2 It's just the intro from the 'Hits' book. The last 2 notes I made up as the whole intro won't fit in. Maybe one of these days I'll actually do a guitar tab...but until then! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:01:40 -0700 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Eastern Rain I absolutely agree, Deb. I've listened to this interview a number of times, and I think Joni must have been talking about "London Bridge." And it was kind of said over the interviewer's next question. I must admit that "London Bridge" is probably the only Joni song I have a really hard time listening to...it does make me cringe, just a little, :-) Best regards, Gary Zack Detroit Deb Messling wrote: >Did you read my clarifying post? Joni was referring to London Bridge, not >Eastern Rain, when she called a song "pure nonsense." It's a little hard >to tell from the transcript, but on tape it's clear. The confusion stems >from the fact that she and Gene were kind of talking over each other. > > >JM: "London Bridge." God, that's years ago that I did that. > >GS: Yeah, a lot of people called and said, yeah, what about the old songs? >How come -- > >JM: Well, they're like old paintings. It's like if you're an art student, >you have a portfolio full of paintings and you look back over it and you >say, "my God, when did I do that? How did I do that?" And you can't >identify with it after a while. Some songs -- some songs that are -- I'm >afraid are lost until I reidentify with them. > >GS: Isn't it a shame that a lot of contemporary singer-songwriters, they >write -- say you write 20 songs, just to use any number and they record >their first album and they leave off some of the songs that everybody >liked, and then they sort of move on to new things and feel the same way >about their old songs, but people still, you know, never heard -- for >instance, you're going to record a second album, and you're not sure at >this point I don't think if you're going to record "From Both Sides, Now" >which you haven't recorded. > >JM: Oh, I think I'll record that. > >GS: But you may never record "London Bridge" or -- > >JM: I don't even remember how I did that. That was really strange the way I >used to do that. > >GS: Or "Eastern Rain." > >JM: I wrote -- that was just after I got back from London. It was pure >nonsense and I can't remember anything about it now. > > > > > >At 04:03 PM 10/17/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >>Thanks Bob and Paul. I guess that Joni thinks it might be a little too >>'derivative' like some of her other early stuff. I still think it's lovely >>though. >>Maybe because Joni wrote it after she returned from London she experienced >>some of our depressing U.K. 'Eastern' rain. LOL >> >>~Kevin >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Deb Messling -^..^- >messling@enter.net >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:12:37 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! steve!!!!! this is so funny. can you do paprika plains now? :-) wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > amelio747 > Enviado el: Viernes, 17 de Octubre de 2003 06:27 p.m. > Para: Joni List > Asunto: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! > > > My sister Ally and James have gone to Hawaii for 2 weeks so I am > home all by > myself :( Anyway I was bored so I did a Joni Mitchell ringtone for a Nokia > mobile! > > "Urge For Going" > > 4d2 4f2 4e2 4d2 > 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 > 4#a1 4f2 4e2 > 4d2 4f2 4e2 4d2 > 4f2 4a1 4e2 4e2 > 4#c2 4e2 4e2 > 4#c2 4e2 4a1 > 4e2 4e2 4#c2 > 4e2 4e2 4#c2 4- > 4d2 4f2 4e2 4dt > 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 > 4#a1 4f2 4e2 > > It's just the intro from the 'Hits' book. The last 2 notes I made > up as the > whole intro won't fit in. Maybe one of these days I'll actually > do a guitar > tab...but until then! > > ************** > Steve T > > amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk > > "Red is autumn green is summer > Greens are turning and the sand" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:18:30 -0400 From: Subject: This 'n that About 2, DED is much improved on THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS. Unlike Dylan's DESIRE which didn't have a lot of untapped fidelity to be revealed, there are many terrific and fun details in DOG EAT DOG. My LP and old CD versions don't compare. About 5, is this Sam Phillips, the supermodel? About 6, it's yer generic VG-8 powered TI arrangement. To me, "Speechless" is the jewel on THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS. (it's labled "Two Grey Rooms- demo". About 7, you're writing an essay about THOSL? Wanna race? Anyway, I'm pretty sure, Joni said > Hot, hot blazes come down to smokin' ash. > All the best, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:20:13 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: wodehouse njc You forgot Bob Murphy's posts... -----Original Message----- From: Wally Kairuz [mailto:wallykai@fibertel.com.ar] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:38 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: wodehouse njc today would have been pg wodehouse' birthday, one of my favorite writers ever. i am re-reading all his books (there are hundreds of them!). can you believe they can still make me shriek with laughter? why aren't there any really funny writers nowadays? except for joe keenan's novels, nothing makes me laugh anymore. wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:26:32 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Eastern Rain Yeah I think it was probably one of those things she thought was good at the time but got tired of, as I did! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Zack" To: "Deb Messling" Cc: Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 2:01 AM Subject: Re: Eastern Rain > I absolutely agree, Deb. I've listened to this interview a number of > times, and I think Joni must have been talking about "London Bridge." > And it was kind of said over the interviewer's next question. I must > admit that "London Bridge" is probably the only Joni song I have a > really hard time listening to...it does make me cringe, just a little, :-) > > Best regards, > > Gary Zack > Detroit > > Deb Messling wrote: > > >Did you read my clarifying post? Joni was referring to London Bridge, not > >Eastern Rain, when she called a song "pure nonsense." It's a little hard > >to tell from the transcript, but on tape it's clear. The confusion stems > >from the fact that she and Gene were kind of talking over each other. > > > > > >JM: "London Bridge." God, that's years ago that I did that. > > > >GS: Yeah, a lot of people called and said, yeah, what about the old songs? > >How come -- > > > >JM: Well, they're like old paintings. It's like if you're an art student, > >you have a portfolio full of paintings and you look back over it and you > >say, "my God, when did I do that? How did I do that?" And you can't > >identify with it after a while. Some songs -- some songs that are -- I'm > >afraid are lost until I reidentify with them. > > > >GS: Isn't it a shame that a lot of contemporary singer-songwriters, they > >write -- say you write 20 songs, just to use any number and they record > >their first album and they leave off some of the songs that everybody > >liked, and then they sort of move on to new things and feel the same way > >about their old songs, but people still, you know, never heard -- for > >instance, you're going to record a second album, and you're not sure at > >this point I don't think if you're going to record "From Both Sides, Now" > >which you haven't recorded. > > > >JM: Oh, I think I'll record that. > > > >GS: But you may never record "London Bridge" or -- > > > >JM: I don't even remember how I did that. That was really strange the way I > >used to do that. > > > >GS: Or "Eastern Rain." > > > >JM: I wrote -- that was just after I got back from London. It was pure > >nonsense and I can't remember anything about it now. > > > > > > > > > > > >At 04:03 PM 10/17/2003 +0200, you wrote: > > > >>Thanks Bob and Paul. I guess that Joni thinks it might be a little too > >>'derivative' like some of her other early stuff. I still think it's lovely > >>though. > >>Maybe because Joni wrote it after she returned from London she experienced > >>some of our depressing U.K. 'Eastern' rain. LOL > >> > >>~Kevin > >> > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Deb Messling -^..^- > >messling@enter.net > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:27:43 +0100 From: "amelio747" Subject: Re: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! Give me a break Wally! Will 'Michael From Mountains' do? :) ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Kairuz" To: "amelio747" ; "Joni List" Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:12 PM Subject: RE: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! > steve!!!!! this is so funny. > can you do paprika plains now? :-) > wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > > amelio747 > > Enviado el: Viernes, 17 de Octubre de 2003 06:27 p.m. > > Para: Joni List > > Asunto: Joni "Urge For Going Ringtone"! > > > > > > My sister Ally and James have gone to Hawaii for 2 weeks so I am > > home all by > > myself :( Anyway I was bored so I did a Joni Mitchell ringtone for a Nokia > > mobile! > > > > "Urge For Going" > > > > 4d2 4f2 4e2 4d2 > > 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 > > 4#a1 4f2 4e2 > > 4d2 4f2 4e2 4d2 > > 4f2 4a1 4e2 4e2 > > 4#c2 4e2 4e2 > > 4#c2 4e2 4a1 > > 4e2 4e2 4#c2 > > 4e2 4e2 4#c2 4- > > 4d2 4f2 4e2 4dt > > 4f2 4e2 4d2 4f2 > > 4#a1 4f2 4e2 > > > > It's just the intro from the 'Hits' book. The last 2 notes I made > > up as the > > whole intro won't fit in. Maybe one of these days I'll actually > > do a guitar > > tab...but until then! > > > > ************** > > Steve T > > > > amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk > > > > "Red is autumn green is summer > > Greens are turning and the sand" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #520 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)