From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #519 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, October 17 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 519 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Eastern Rain [Bob.Muller@Fluor.com] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) [David Sadowski ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction now Rush (not the band) [Bob.Muller] njc Felon voting rights ["Kate Bennett" ] Fw: njc Felon voting rights/addiction (for AOL members) [Emiliano ] This 'n that (Miles of Isles, Dog Eat, Hissing...) and other stuph [FW ] Re: njc Felon voting rights/addiction ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) ["Mark or Travis" ] Subject: RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" <] RE: (NJC) Taking a break ["patrick leader" ] Re: Question about the cover of Clouds [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) [FMYFL@aol.com] cubs equal britney spears (njc) [vince ] fecking yankes njc ["gene mock" ] Re: cubs equal britney spears (njc) [David Sadowski ] RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc Felon voting rights/addiction ["Mark or Travis" Subject: RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction me too & that goes for book stores too...borders is dangerous, 2 in 1! > And in a related question - is music addictive? Because sometimes I > get in a mood where I just have to go buy a "fix". It's tough for me > to walk in a record store and walk out without buying something. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:20:03 +0200 (CEST) From: dean2302@fsmail.net Subject: Eastern Rain A couple of years ago Bob Mueller kindly sent me a copy of 'Looking Out For Love', the compilation of some early Joni recordings. My favourite track on the CD is a live radio recording of Eastern Rain, which Joni describes as her 'one eastern-flavoured song.' At the end of the song the interviewer starts to ask about how the song was written, but the recording then cuts off. Is this all that remains of the recording or is there a longer version? I'd love to know how she replied as ER has become a real favourite of mine. I would have fit nicely on Clouds methinks. ~Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:25:43 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Darice Subject: felon voting rights (NJC) If my memory is correct, there was a contention that Florida purged their voting roster by matching names of felons on a nation-wide list to names of registered Florida voters. Some of these voters may have been convicted of a felony in another state, satisfied that state's requirements to be vote (jail term, probation, parole, etc) and then been allowed to register and vote. They may then have moved to FLorida and registered to vote. Does Florida bar all felons from other states from voting in Florida? Others, the more troubling ones, may have had the same name,as someone on the "felon list", and the cross checks; birthdate,etc were not used consistently. The first these people would know of the problem was when they turned up to vote, and found their name had been removed. If the Florida poll workers are anything like the ones I have encountered in California; they would have no idea of how the names were dropped and no real idea of how to resolve the situation. Even is there was phone number for the problems, it is reasonable to assume that most people would not have the time, patience, cell phone etc to resolve the problem while still at the polling place. The majority would l just leave and not return to vote in that election. If the majority of the "dropped" names were in heavily black precincts, the result would tend to be seen a racially motivated, another problem for the Florida image. IF this is what happened, then there was/is a real problem with the certifcation of voters in Florida. But I have not seen a followup on this contention, and would be very interested in one if someone else has seen it. Darice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:32:12 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) In a message dated 10/16/2003 12:00:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: >Susan's and my posts may have seemed intemperate to some >but if you don't get it, sorry, I don't jazz, for example, >we all have our things, I just don't comment about what I >don't get. If I don't *get* something Vince, I comment so someone can try and explain it to me.I didn't mean to get your collar in a knot :~) Debra replied: >Fanhood sounds vicious out there in Chicago. What exactly is such hatred >of the other team based on? I get the impression the choice of favorite >team is largely a class issue, that is, the Cubs fans seem to be mostly >working class, and White Sox fans seem to be mostly middle or upper >class. Now this makes sense. I was asking a coworker who used to live in Chicago and that was his explanation too. Vince also wrote: >Professionally, I am sure Miami Dolphin fan don't cheer for >Tampa Bay and the reverse. College wise, do the Florida >State fans cheer for Florida while they cheer for Miami U? >Hardly. I'd have to disagree here Rev.. I'm a Florida Gator alum, and while I'll always cheer for the gators when they play Florida State or Uof Miami, I'm glad when FSU or Miami wins the championship if my team can't win. Same with the pros in any sport. Sure there are fans that just hate the other team and would never want them to win under any circumstances, but I consider them angry fanatics. Most of the people I know would be proud for any of the state teams to win a championship. Maybe because the teams aren't a class issue down here (if that is part of the reason for such rivalry in Chicago). Oh well, just my opinion. I better stick with figure skaters and synchronize swimmers :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:28:57 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: Re: Eastern Rain Hi Kevin! I think that same recording (or at least another "Eastern Rain") is on the WMMR tapes as well. I'll hit the vaults and see if there's any additional info available. I agree with you, it's a beautiful song, and that Eastern tuning and chord structure gives it a unique sound to be sure. Fairport Convention agrees with us as they picked it as one of the many Joni songs they covered early on. Bob NP: Blue Magic, "Sideshow" - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:44:13 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) Not so fast. The Cubs ballpark is in the middle of Yuppieville while the Sox are in a lower income, working class neighborhood. The Bleachers at Wrigley tend to be full of drunken fratboy types and their Trixies. Part of it is geographic... people on the north side tend to like the Cubs, while the south side likes the Sox. But when the Cubs are winning, naturally they have a lot of fair weather fans. >Debra replied: > > > >>Fanhood sounds vicious out there in Chicago. What exactly is such hatred >>of the other team based on? I get the impression the choice of favorite >>team is largely a class issue, that is, the Cubs fans seem to be mostly >>working class, and White Sox fans seem to be mostly middle or upper >>class. >> >> > >Now this makes sense. I was asking a coworker who used to live in Chicago >and that was his explanation too. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:23:06 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) >Fanhood sounds vicious out there in Chicago...I sure am glad I live in NYC, where, if my beloved, scrappy, usually the underdog Mets aren't in the playoffs< haha out here in cali for ni a we just elect bodybuilders to run the state... i don't get 'it' either but that doesn't mean i'm condescending...actually i do sort of get it on an intellectual level...its about belonging to a tribe imo... on that note, if i ruled the world i would have nations resolve their differences in the sports arena rather than the battlefield...it would save lots of innocent lives & $$ that could be used for creative rather than destructive purposes... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:37:30 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" wrote: > > Professionally, I am sure Miami Dolphin fan don't cheer for > Tampa Bay and the reverse. College wise, do the Florida > State fans cheer for Florida while they cheer for Miami U? > Hardly. "Professionally?" I don't know what that means in this context. I misphrased that! That should have been "in professional sports" or some such as that. "I get the impression the choice of favorite team is largely a class issue, that is, the Cubs fans seem to be mostly working class, and White Sox fans seem to be mostly middle or upper class. " That is not correct, kind and good friend Debra, actually the reverse - the Sox have been the working class team with a good smattering of University of Chicago type intellectuals while the Cubs have been more of the leisure class and for tourists, yuppies, frat types, and children. But there are exceptions all around of course but I still think those historic devides have some merit. It is also a north side vs south side thing and that is real in chicago, although I was a north sider , was always a Sox fan, and all of my close friends except one in Chicago are north side Sox fans. It is somehow innate - like a gender or orientation - people are what they are.. If you want to see animosity, go to a cubs or sox message board right now - or come to a crosstown game - there is nothing like it for sheer rivalry. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:51:43 -0400 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Yankees, probably (njc) Debra in NYC wrote: "Intellectually, I was rooting for the Cubs and Red Sox to be in the Series since fans of both teams have waited so long for a championship, but now that the Cubs are out (darn! those poor fans! :-) ok, Vince, I know, I'm being really annoying now!),..." yes, that is annoying! :-) Know that God prevented that from happening since God could deal with all that arrogance, would have the worst amount of human arrogance displayed since the Tower of Babel. DSK continues: "I've gotta go with my heart. Go Yankees Go! I could watch Derek Jeter beautifully catch, turn, flip, toss, throw, or hit all day! " When Derek was in high school in Kalamazoo, I lived there - I feel a special appreciation for Jeter - his parents are wonderful people and Jeter has never forgotten from whence he came. He always comes back and is good to the folks back home. I am torn for tonight but then whoever wins is my team in the World Series since I always go AL. Yankees only cuz I like Jeter but am tired of the yankees winning; bosox since it would be of change of pace but oh that cubs-like arrogance - Jeter is a good guy, so I will cheer for Jeter. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:57:12 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction oh yes! i believe music is addictive, like anything else that gives your endorphins a kick. running, aerobic exercising, etc. shopping for music and books! oh my goodness! now that's SOME addiction. mr limbaugh is addicted to $$$. you never get cured of that one. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > Enviado el: Jueves, 16 de Octubre de 2003 09:02 a.m. > Para: Kate Bennett > CC: joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: njc Felon voting rights/addiction > > > addiction...it is considered a disease & is very complex...> > > It will be interesting to see if Rush "Lock 'em all up & throw away the > key" Limbaugh changes his views on addiction after he gets out of > his rehab > for his Oxycontin addiction. > > And in a related question - is music addictive? Because sometimes I get in > a mood where I just have to go buy a "fix". It's tough for me to walk in a > record store and walk out without buying something. > > Bob > > NP: Dionne Warwick, "Walk On By" > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------------- > The information transmitted is intended only for the person > or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential > and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, > retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any > action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the > material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message > are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect > the views of the company. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:04:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: waytoblu Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) >Professionally, I am sure Miami Dolphin fan don't cheer for >Tampa Bay and the reverse. College wise, do the Florida >State fans cheer for Florida while they cheer for Miami U? >Hardly. I'd have to disagree here Rev.. I'm a Florida Gator alum, and while I'll always cheer for the gators when they play Florida State or Uof Miami, I'm glad when FSU or Miami wins the championship if my team can't win. Same with the pros in any sport. Sure there are fans that just hate the other team and would never want them to win under any circumstances, but I consider them angry fanatics. Me too. I don't hate any teams and root for whoever I feel like. I do know baseball, chose to root for the Cubs after they knocked the Braves out and I don't care what anyone thinks. Like Jimmy, I'm not from Chicago so I'm not part of this nasty rivalry thing(we simply don't understand- we're not trying to stir anything up) , I don't care anything about the media and don't base my decisions on what the media wants, and thirdly, both Jody, Scott, and her dad are all big Cubs fans so more than anything else, I was hoping the Cubs would win so that they would be thrilled and elated. Jody knows I am a Braves fan and I remember before the final game 5, she said she didn't know who she wanted to win, that she was rooting for both teams. Jody is one of my favorite people in the world. :~} So you see, it's possible to enjoy sports without talking trash and buying into any bitter rivalries. One thing I like about this list is that everyone has their different opinions but for the most part, we can all get along. So I'm going to root for the Red Sox tonight because I want to. My condolences go out to Dusty Baker and the Cubs...they put up a good fight but I think the key turning point was getting shut out by Josh Beckett and the Marlins at Pro Player Stadium. Congratulations to the Florida Marlins who have some amazing talent in Cabrera, Beckett, and Dantre Willis. A late congratulations to Greg Maddux of the Atlanta Braves who broke the record previously held by Cy Young by having 16 consecutive seasons with 15 wins or more! Victor, who truly loves the game of baseball ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:14:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@Fluor.com Subject: RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction now Rush (not the band) Subject: njc Felon voting rights >At any given time most states will be purging felons from the voting rolls in an election...do you really think it is possible in Florida to have screwed up that astoundingly?< there are many who believe that innocent people were intentionally purged from the roles...i don't know how to quickly find this the post from the archives but i remember julius giving a pretty good explanation of this... hey, julius where are you? ps, i did find this interesting extract (an article posted by kakki prior to the 2000 election): >Think you're voting for president? Think again Electoral college system understood by few From Garrick Utley/CNN November 2, 2000 NEW YORK (CNN) -- "The electoral college has been here since the beginning of our country. People are still unfamiliar with it," he said. How did we get this system? >But there were potential faults in the system. The last time that was evident was in 1888, when Grover Cleveland, a Democrat running for re-election, narrowly won the popular vote. But Benjamin Harrison won more electoral votes by winning -- by slight margins -- in a number of key states. "If we had that again, where somebody won the election without winning the popular vote, the system would be changed in an instant," said Epstein.< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:33:37 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: njc Felon voting rights/addiction (for AOL members) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: ; "Kate Bennett" CC: Enviado: jueves, 16 de octubre de 2003 21:57 Asunto: RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction > oh yes! i believe music is addictive, like anything else that gives your > endorphins a kick. running, aerobic exercising, etc. > shopping for music and books! oh my goodness! now that's SOME addiction. > mr limbaugh is addicted to $$$. you never get cured of that one. > wally > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > > Bob.Muller@Fluor.com > > Enviado el: Jueves, 16 de Octubre de 2003 09:02 a.m. > > Para: Kate Bennett > > CC: joni@smoe.org > > Asunto: Re: njc Felon voting rights/addiction > > > > > > > addiction...it is considered a disease & is very complex...> > > > > It will be interesting to see if Rush "Lock 'em all up & throw away the > > key" Limbaugh changes his views on addiction after he gets out of > > his rehab > > for his Oxycontin addiction. > > > > And in a related question - is music addictive? Because sometimes I get in > > a mood where I just have to go buy a "fix". It's tough for me to walk in a > > record store and walk out without buying something. > > > > Bob > > > > NP: Dionne Warwick, "Walk On By" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:01:05 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: education njc i've recently posted about higher education in california...as an alumni of ucsb's graduate school of education i have receive a newsletter...the director jules zimmer is highly esteemed as an educator's educator far & wide...here is what he had to say about recent educational legislation: "The field of education is an ever-changing domain, continually posing new challenges. Schools nationwide are currently grappling with the requirements and changes imposed by federal education legislation known as NO Child Left Behind, NCLB's reach into schools is unprecedented....While the goals of NCLB are admirable, the unintended consequences are real. Among the potential side effects are an increase in student dropouts, as demonstrated in Texas; reduction of standards, in order to meet mandates, as has been done in several states; inconsistent methods of determining proficiency; narrowing of the curriculum; and limiting arts and humanities as legitimate areas of academic study. < grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:00:18 -0700 From: FW Subject: This 'n that (Miles of Isles, Dog Eat, Hissing...) and other stuph Hi Joni People of the Universe Been busy here in Seattle (Vashon Island actually, but who knows where that is?) But I have kept up with the list dispatches (and all the political harangues -- sheesh, chill out everybody, all of that kinda shit will still be going on a hundred years after you're dead, just like it was going on a hundred years before you were born...not to sound like a scold or anything, but think about it.) Here's some randomology for y'all: 1. Was cruising Apple's iTunes Music store today, and noticed they've got Mitchell's Miles of Isles listed as a "Just Added" item. The notes to the album mention 4 minutes of lost audience applause and Joni talkin' -- that's a bummer, I was hoping what had been compressed into within' an inch of it's edge, on the first CD release would have been restored on the remasterd disc...guess not. 2. Have been inching my way into the "dreaded period" lately, that's what I call the post Don Juan's releases -- and I've been doing that via the Hits and Misses discs, in my car stereo. Can't believe I'm writing this now, LOL, but I'm really starting to enjoy the song Dog Eat Dog -- once I get over the heavy 80s sonic aura it's quite wonderful. And too, Sex Kills came on and really waylaid me, I'd dismissed that one, too, until I saw her perform it on the latest DVD release. So some ripening IS happening. 3. On the female artist's front, which I started hammering about a couple of weeks ago. Thought I'd mention some stuff I've checked out and liked lately. The first is a real surprise, the new Edie Brickell disc Volcano. Wow, hats off to the lady. She went back to guitar school, got her chops up, sat down and has done some powerful narrative songwriting, with great melodies and very rootsy, simple production. I don't think you'll be disappointed. 4. Speaking of dissed -- the new Ricki Lee Jones is a big letdown...especially after all the raving I read in the press and online (and here). Kicks off with a nice midtempo jazz groove but then gets caught in a puddle and never moves anywhere. And her voice is starting to bug the shit out of me -- I think I used to consider it charming, but now the nasal, little girl quality isn't working. It's the equivalent of women who wear hot pants past their prime (usually in Las Vegas, etc.) 5. Forgot to mention another favorite (female) songwriter/singer; someone I think folks here would appreciate. Sam Phillips; she's married to T Bone Burnett (and he's done some awesome production on several of her LPs). Her last album from two years ago, Fan Dance, was fabulous. The kind of sound and writing I wished Joni would move towards. Check it out. http://tinyurl.com/r8f5 6. Can someone here describe Mitchell's version of It's All Over Now, on the new boxed set. I haven't heard it, and I'm wondering about stuff like: year it was recorded, production style and quality, vocal performance, studio or live...just dig in and let it rip, will ya? And then if someone can send me a MP3 copy to "sample." LOL! 7. Lastly, Hissing has been playing pretty much daily here in the household. Which got my bf playing Court and Spark (yes, the one I repurchased, mainly for the friggin' art work), he thinks the line "I've seen some hard hard places come down to smoke and ash," is one of the greatest lines ever written in a pop song. And I'd have to agree. What's great is that he's not that familiar with Hissing, so he's getting a big education from me on what the album meant to me while I was abandoning highschool and moving to LA (Hollywood as I called it then) because, well, that's just where you moved to if you lived in So Cal and were going to do something with yourself as an artist, or writer, or musician, or starlet (what's the equivalent of a starlet for a young male? Hustler?) Anyway, I'm writing an essay on the album, how it intertwined my life at that time -- to be published I'm not sure where, but it's the writing that's the thing. I'll keep everyone posted. Hugs galore, Frederick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:03:29 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) This is to Vince and Susan; Are you guys for real??? How can you be true baseball fans and go for the American League with the "training rule"--------designated hitter. What's with that?? Dusty will make believers out of you two. Their is hope, Keep the Faith!! GO MARLINS!!!! GO NATIONAL LEAGUE!!!!!!!!! HmmmmmmmBaby Giants fan gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Guzzi" To: "vince" ; "waytoblu" Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 4:22 AM Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) > YES Vince all is well in theuniverse again! And may we add yet another major choke to the Scrubs list 69, 84 and of course perhaps the biggest one of all 03! Yipeeeeee!!! > Ahh but the weakness oof the national league rears its head again! > > Oh and let's remember that one fan catching a pop up is the reason this time that Scrub fans will lament till the end of time - how funny the other 26 outs in a game dont matter and have no effect on the outcome of a game. Sheesh if only scrub fans knew anything about sports and especially baseball - but then of course if they did - they would be WHite Sox fans - wouldn't they?! > > Goooo American league! > > Peace, > Susan > > vince wrote: > waytoblu wrote: > > >Yay!!! the Red Sox beat the Yankees. Game 7 tomorrow night! > > > >Now the Cubs just need to beat the Florida Marlins... > > > >Go Cubs! > > > Over my dead body. > > Please note I cursed the scrubs and thus they lost three games in a row, > 2 games in their own ballpark, both games in which they had leads, with > the fav pitchers on the mound > > if the only real Sox, the White Sox, aren't gonna make it, sure as hell > the scrubs won't > > and for every frat boy - yuppie - tourist - drunk - who is a scrubs fan > - yahoo! > > and always remember the Sox beat the scrubs 4 games out of 6 this year > - oh and last year too - > > now whoever wins tomorrow, NY or Boston, will be my world series team > since I always go AL, true blue American that I am... > > sorry victor, but as the t shirt says that I bought my grandson at his > repeated insistence: "cubs suck." > > Order has been restored in the universe. > > Vince > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:42:14 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: njc Felon voting rights/addiction 3 of the 5 other people in my immediate family are called "sober alcoholics". My father's brother had the problem. My father's uncle had the problem. If I don't agree with you, that is not evidence that I "don't understand" something. Okay? We disagree and that's okay too. Felons are not just people in recovery, as you know. My thinking is that feeling pity for someone is not a smart reason to give them a ballot. I think you are an absolutist. (For example, "We should never go to war. We should always allow people to vote.") You're consistent that way, but I'll often respectfully disagree. All the best, Lama Kate said, >jim , no offense but i don't think you understand the nature of addiction...it is considered a disease & is very complex...much of it has to do with self medicating for chemical imbalances but unfortunately the wrong medication is used...addiction deserves a much more compassionate view in our society & our laws...if someone is a recovering addict but was once arrested on drug charges (with no violent or dealing charges) they most certainly deserve the right to vote...i have met many recovering addicts & alcoholics who are some of the most self-aware, compassionate, & giving people on the planet...> Lama said, >>I think revoking a felon's privilege to vote makes a pro*duct*ive and pro*tect*ive dividing line. It separates people who are destructive fro those who are not.>> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:51:34 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: lakota Yeah, tell your friend that she invited Iron Eyes Cody to add his song to the front of it. He listened to it with his eyes closed, then agreed to help out. I'll repost the liner notes from THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS in a separate email. How could someone think for a moment that Joni was exploiting the Lakota nation when she wrote a song about their situation?! By that yardstick, every telethon is exploiting people. All the best, Lama Kate's friend worried, >food for thought & discussion---on the page about ceremony (http://www.elexion.com/lakota/rites/index2.html) they talk about people exploiting their spirituality...while i wouldn't call joni's song exploitation i wonder if someone from that nation might see it differently...& i wonder if joni consulted anyone before she released the song....> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:58:32 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) Like Jimmy, I'm not from > Chicago so I'm not part of this nasty rivalry thing(we simply don't > understand- we're not trying to stir anything up) , I don't care > anything about the media and don't base my decisions on what the > media wants, and thirdly, both Jody, Scott, and her dad are all big > Cubs fans so more than anything else, I was hoping the Cubs would win > so that they would be thrilled and elated. Thank you for saying this, Victor. Here's where I'm coming from: My dad was born and raised and still lives in the same town in Southeast Iowa. He has been a Cubs fan for as long as I can remember and passed that on to my brother. I guess since he's not from Chicago, that makes him a tourist or out-of-towner or inferior in some way, I'm not sure how. Anyway, my parents have been married for 56 years. They moved into an assisted living apartment about a year and a half ago. Last winter my mother became ill and was hospitalized. When she was released from the hospital, it became evident that she & my dad could no longer take sufficient care of her for her to remain in assisted living. She was moved to the nursing section of the same facility. Permanently. It's true, my dad can shuffle along a series of hallways with his walker and spend afternoons with Mom. But he spends a lot of time alone. And he misses her. I'm sure he grieves for the loss. Well anyway, I thought it would be a nice lift for this 82 year old man who has for all intents and purposes lost the companion of 56 of those 82 years if the Cubs could at least get into the World Series. So to be quite honest, whether it was meant in jest or not, all of this slagging of the Cubs and of Cubs fans has really gotten on my nerves. Ok, the string section can stop playing 'Liebestraum' now (I detest cheap sentiment - catch that one, Jimmy?) and I won't mention it again. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:04:59 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) > on that note, if i ruled the world i would have nations resolve their > differences in the sports arena rather than the battlefield...it > would save lots of innocent lives & $$ that could be used for > creative rather than destructive purposes... Really? With all the money that is spent in this country on professional sports? Arenas, ticket prices, player's salaries? I suppose when you compare it to the war machine but I'm not even sure about that when players are being paid in the millions of dollars. And recent behaviors on the playing fields of various sports, not to mention the conduct of some of the athletes off of the playing fields really makes me question whether these past times are so conducive to peaceful resolutions. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:04:18 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Subject: RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction I'll say! Hard to imagine: Brother Rush "sharing" in group therapy within his time limit. That's gotta be his worst nightmare: Being under the control of a bunch of liberal rehab counselors for 30 days without contact to the outside world. No out-of-town papers for Rush! heh heh Lama Kate said, >it will be a lifelong struggle & an everday focus for him to stay clean...he's got a whole lot to learn about himself & some places to go that require tremendous humility...i hope he gets it (30 days is only the first step) & if he does he will eventually learn compassion along the way...> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:18:41 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: (NJC) Taking a break lori, i'm counting on you that this is just a temporary break and you'll come back soon, and with a flourish! i know how this list can get, grabbing a little too much time out of every day. but please don't stay long in the no-time-for-jmdl world... it a lesser jmdl without you... patrick np - rickie lee at montreaux '82, instrumental "the child is so sweet, and the girls are so rapturous. isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?" 'children and art', from sondheim's 'sunday in the park with george' >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of >lfye@cresapartners.com >Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 10:54 AM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: (NJC) Taking a break > > >I'm going to take a break from most of my email for awhile, including the >JMDL. Between running (training for the marathon, >http://lrfye.lunarpages.com) and trying to get myself organized (my life >is overwhelmed with papers and junk), I just haven't been able to keep up >with email. > >If you need to get my attention for whatever reason, please email me at >work: lfye@cresapartners.com > >Happy posting! >Lori > >NP: Harry's House, from the Hissing Demos (thanks, Cindy!) > >NPIMH: singing "Happy Birthday" to my mom, who would be 66 today ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:39:28 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Question about the cover of Clouds *I have a question about the self-portrait on the cover of Clouds. Is it true that the art was retouched after the promo release? * Hi John, and welcome aboard! I've been here awhile now & this is the first time I've seen this question. What was the change, do you know? Did she go back & add all those cute freckles? :~) Looking forward to hearing more from you. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:52:27 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Red Sox win!!! (njc) In a message dated 10/16/2003 9:59:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: So to be quite honest, whether it was meant in jest or not, all of this slagging of the Cubs and of Cubs fans has really gotten on my nerves. Ok, the string section can stop playing 'Liebestraum' now (I detest cheap sentiment - catch that one, Jimmy?) and I won't mention it again. As Bette said: "My dear Horowitz, In the first place, I'm paying you union scale. Second, it's my piano. Third, if everybody doesn't like kind of dying on the vine, they can get off the vine and go home. LIEBESTRAUM!!!!" My dear Mark, In the first place, itbs your dad. Second, itbs your piano. Third, if anybody doesnbt like kind of dying on the vine, they can get off the vine and go home. I admire your sentimentality, and I bsaluteb your love for your parents. bLiebestraum.b Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:15:54 -0400 From: vince Subject: cubs equal britney spears (njc) gene mock wrote: >Vince! How can you not like Wrigley Field? I never saw a game but I had a >chance to go into the stadium and on to the field. Beautiful!! I thought I >was Roy Hobbs standing at home plate. Later gene > Wrigley Field is a minor league park. Look up its history. It is a minor league park. That and many other reasons is how I can not like it. I have personal connections with both teams, have had them since I was 4 or 5. Check when Ear Averill, Jr. played in Chicago and you date exactly when I got to know the teams for the first time. I know the parks in Chicago well. I have more connections with the teams in Chicago than Bob Muller has cover c.d.s One can buy into the whole cubbies and wrigley are cute shit - or not. I don't, never have. There is a reason there are two ball teams in Chicago - one team for the yuppies and tourists and drunks, and then, the American League team for fans of real baseball. How anyone can buy into the scrubs marketing is beyond me. As far as I am concerned, in a life long knowledge of both teams, this is what it is: Britney Spears = cub fans = oh so cute and oh so popular and oh oh oh just so darling Joni Mitchell = sox fans = I don't care about marketing and PR, I care for reality and quality. There is more to say but enough on this topic for me. Myopia is a joy to those who get off on it. And actually the presence of wrigley in Chicago is a good thing since it gives the trendies and the drunks and the tourists a place to go, and the real baseball fans, we have USCF. Vince, who knows some cubbie is going to say the Sox sold out when they changed the name of the park from Comiskey to USCF as if "Wrigley" was the original name of that minor league park and changing to "Wrigley" wasn't the first corporate marketing sell out in baseball history.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:20:01 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: fecking yankes njc fecking yankees!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:30:39 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: cubs equal britney spears (njc) So, Wrigley Field was built for the Chicago Whales of the Federal League... a short-lived third major league, not a "minor" league. When that league folded after a few years, the guy who built the park and owned the Whales bought the Cubs. So what? It is pretty difficult to argue that storied Wrigley Field is not a major league park. It has been one longer than just about every other major league park excepting Fenway, which was extensively modified in 1934. The Cubs used to play at West Side Park, where I suppose there were wooden bleachers and the fans in the outfield watched the game behind a rope. What does any of this have to do with today? vince wrote: > gene mock wrote: > >> Vince! How can you not like Wrigley Field? I never saw a game but I >> had a >> chance to go into the stadium and on to the field. Beautiful!! I >> thought I >> was Roy Hobbs standing at home plate. Later gene >> > Wrigley Field is a minor league park. Look up its history. It is a > minor league park. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:52:30 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Red Sox win!!! (njc) yep...sure sports is expensive but not as expensive as the pentagon budget plus no innocent kids die >Really? With all the money that is spent in this country on professional sports? Arenas, ticket prices, player's salaries? I suppose when you compare it to the war machine but I'm not even sure about that when players are being paid in the millions of dollars.< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:30:23 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: njc Felon voting rights/addiction jim from the words you wrote in your earlier post i deduced that you did not understand addiction very well (from the disease point of view i should have said) but i apologize for my awkward way of expressing my frustration with your words- certainly you can disagree & yes having addiction/alcoholism in the family is certainly one type of understanding but that is not what i was trying to communicate...however, i never mentioned pity so i don't know where that bit came from...also i never said the stuff you have in quotes & am sorry that is how you view me but that i can't help...bottom line is sorry if i offended... >My thinking is that feeling pity for someone is not a smart reason to give them a ballot.< >I think you are an absolutist. (For example, "We should never go to war. We should always allow people to vote.") < ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:26:06 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: BSN in new film soundtrack Wyclef, Norah Share "Love" Movie soundtrack due next month Still married, actually Songs by Wyclef Jean, Norah Jones, Justin Timberlake and Dido will be featured on the Love Actually soundtrack, due November 11th on J Records. The movie, in theaters November 7th, stars Hugh Grant, Liam Neeson and Emma Thompson and is screenwriter Richard Curtis' (Four Weddings and a Funeral, Bridget Jones's Diary) first effort as director. "Without its music, Love Actually wouldn't work at all," says Curtis. "I know because I saw the film without the music and it was a shocker. It's the life and soul of the film. Joni Mitchell's extraordinary re-recording of 'Both Sides Now,' the words of youth rediscovered in her fifties -- was always the core of Emma Thompson's whole story . . . I played Hugh Grant seven records to dance to, and he chose [the Pointer Sisters'] 'Jump' and now I can't imagine another song." Wyclef Jean contributes "Take Me As I Am," a track from his upcoming album The Preacher's Son. At a recent record release party in Los Angeles, he explained that, while the song may work on the silver screen, it has special real-life meaning to him. "My girl was about ready to get a divorce," he said. "I wrote this song because I was so glad she decided to stay with my bony ass." The Love Actually track listing: Kelly Clarkson, "The Trouble With Love Is" The Pointer Sisters, "Jump (For My Love)" Dido, "Here With Me" Justin Timberlake, "Like I Love You" Norah Jones, "Turn Me On" Wyclef Jean, "Take Me As I Am" (featuring Sharissa) Maroon 5, "Sweetest Goodbye/Sunday Morning" Eva Cassidy, "Songbird" The Calling, "Wherever You Will Go" Joni Mitchell, "Both Sides Now" Lynden David Hall, "All You Need Is Love" The Beach Boys, "God Only Knows" Texas, "I'll See It Through" Sugababes, "Too Lost In You" Craig Armstrong, "Total Agony Theme" Otis Redding, "White Christmas" Billy Mac, "Christmas Is All Around" Olivia Olson, "All I Want For Christmas Is You" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:28:04 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: cubs equal britney spears (njc) David Sadowski wrote: > So, Wrigley Field was built for the Chicago Whales of the Federal > League... a short-lived third major league, not a "minor" league. > When that league folded after a few years, the guy who built the park > and owned the Whales bought the Cubs. So what? > > It is pretty difficult to argue that storied Wrigley Field is not a > major league park. The Federal League tried to be a major league and it failed, it never was. It was built to minor league dimensions for a team in a league that remained minor league until it folded. It is pretty hard to argue that well marketed wrigley field is not a minor league park.. It is hard to remember the cubs were responsible for the imposition of the color ban in baseball - until recent years, six and cub fans were separated by race - with the color-ban for players, the cubs had all white fans while the Sox opened the park to the Negro leagues and was right there to break the color ban after Landis died and diversity reigns at USCG. A few black fans now go to Wrigley, yuppified. The African american community remains a Sox demographic, wrigley is no shrine to nothing. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:32:10 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: njc Felon voting rights/addiction ...bottom line > is sorry if i offended... > Hm. I don't think *you* said anything offensive Kate. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:05:29 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: October 17 2001: Joni paid a surprise visit, accompanied by her daughter, Kilauren Gibb, to Hugh's Room, a Toronto folk club, and sang a duet with her old pal, Eric Andersen. The tune was Andersen's classic 'Blue River', which she recorded with him almost 30 years ago. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=686 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:05:29 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 17 On October 17 the following article was published: 2002: "Sheryl Crow, Norah Jones & Others To Play Stormy Weather Walden Woods Benefit" - Launch.com (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=937 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:19:05 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: cubs equal britney spears (njc) What you say about race is true... the White Sox were integration pioneers in the AL, while the Cubs had few black players in the 50s... part of the reason for their long pennant drought. Mike Royko wrote about this in his last column. However, now the Cubs have a black manager and the Sox have had a few... all the people involved in these earlier situations are long dead, and what does all this history have to do with what's going on today? vince wrote: > David Sadowski wrote: > >> So, Wrigley Field was built for the Chicago Whales of the Federal >> League... a short-lived third major league, not a "minor" league. >> When that league folded after a few years, the guy who built the park >> and owned the Whales bought the Cubs. So what? >> >> It is pretty difficult to argue that storied Wrigley Field is not a >> major league park. > > > The Federal League tried to be a major league and it failed, it never > was. It was built to minor league dimensions for a team in a league > that remained minor league until it folded. It is pretty hard to > argue that well marketed wrigley field is not a minor league park.. > > It is hard to remember the cubs were responsible for the imposition of > the color ban in baseball - until recent years, six and cub fans were > separated by race - with the color-ban for players, the cubs had all > white fans while the Sox opened the park to the Negro leagues and was > right there to break the color ban after Landis died and diversity > reigns at USCG. A few black fans now go to Wrigley, yuppified. The > African american community remains a Sox demographic, > > wrigley is no shrine to nothing. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #519 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)