From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #507 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, October 8 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 507 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni is a miracle ["Kate Bennett" ] njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. [cul heath ] Re: correction (california recall) njc ["kakki" ] Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. ["kakki" ] Bert Jansch news (NJC) [Gertus@aol.com] Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: NJC Joan Baez in Greenville [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: california recall njc for bob & anyone else intereste njc ["mack wats] Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. [cul heath ] Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. [cul heath ] Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. [cul heath ] Re: NJC Joan Baez in Greenville [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Matthew Shepard - NJC ["kerry" ] Re: NJC Joan Baez in Greenville [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Murphy's comment NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Murphy's comment NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni on others [Catherine Finn ] RE: correction (california recall) njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! ["StephenToogood" ] Re: Joni is a miracle [Jerry Notaro ] Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? ["StephenToogood" ] urgent message to the list ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni is a miracle - now singles NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: urgent message to the list (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] quote of the day-NJC [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Joni and the other Girls [Lazyasz@aol.com] Today's Library Links: October 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] The omnipresent BYT reference [BRYAN8847@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:05:02 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni is a miracle >To lots of people out there, Tracy Chapman and Suzanne Vega are just one-hit-wonders.... And where are they now?.< i recently saw tracy on her tour & i'd never call her a one hit wonder...as to where she is now, well she is writing, recording & touring...i wouldn't have been at her show if i hadn't been asked to review it however...but she put on an excellent show--just before her encore she kicked 'give me one reason' into an amazing r&b groove & she sang like aretha...then the encore of 'proud mary' & 'change is gonna come'... eastmountainsouth was her opener... i think its deceptive to judge an artists vitality or longevity by whether you are hearing them on the radio or whether they have 'hits'... many songwriters who were once in the spotlight are still out there writing & playing & making a good living...(by the look of her tour busses tracy is making a very good living!) ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 01:19:33 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. if ye be a citizen of Kali 4 Nigh A and are even remotely considering supporting Arnold, read this : http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=283&row=0 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:22:27 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: correction (california recall) njc Kate wrote: > community college IS (partial) university level education...its the > affordable, often times higher quality education for many who take their > first 2 years at cc then transfer to a university or state college... Yes and it's almost free to most CA residents - around $500 a year or so for tuition and most people commute from home. The new bill would pay for university level (meaning UCLA, Berkeley, etc.) educations for illegal immigrants. That costs about $20,000 for tuition, room & board, books etc. a year. A big difference in cost. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:45:24 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. Cul, This one takes the cake as the most insane article I've read so far. At first I thought it was satire from the Onion, but the guy appears to be serious. It's scary and funny at the same time that people actually concoct and believe such stuff. The link to the consumerwatchdog.org does not work so I couldn't see what they have to say but CA is $38-50 billion in the hole, not $8 billion. The lawsuit to try to get back money from the energy companies was brought on behalf of (and widely supported by) the people of CA, not by Cruz personally. His name as a plaintiff is a formality as a government official representing the people. Here's the background in a nutshell. CA deregulated the electricity utility companies who were forced to sell off their generating plants to independent operators. In that deal the utility companies earned a windfall. In exchange for that windfall the State set it up where the utility companies could not raise their electricity rates to consumers but the generators could charge any rate they wanted to the utilities in part to enable them to raise revenue to convert to "green" energy sources. However, even with the "green" energy sources, oil was still required to run the plants to some extent. The FERC and the Cal. Pub. Util. Comm. approved all prices set for oil and gas being sold to the generators not only from Enron but many, many other fuel suppliers. The generators raised their prices to the utilitiy companies and in a short time the utilities refused/said they couldn't pay. The generators sued for the back payments (hundreds of millions of dollars). Two of the utilities then declared bankruptcy and the other said they didn't have the money (although there was lots of money set aside in a holding company). Gray Davis then came in and rescued the utility companies from their debt by making the State of CA pay for the contracts (at the advice of utility co. executives) at the highest market price. It's very complicated and very messy, not to mention shady on many levels. Why some people insist on continuing to say this is about Bush and Enron (and now Arnold?!) is beyond the pale. It's about CA and the utilities and Davis and FERC and CPUC. Period. Much of it has already been litigated extensively and these are the facts and findings of many CA and Federal courts. Geez Louise! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 05:17:47 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Bert Jansch news (NJC) Bert's 60th birthday is on November 3rd this year, just 4 days before Joni's. Clearly a vintage time to be born. His birthday concert is being held at Queen Elizabeth Hall on London's South Bank on Nov 8th the same day some people will be celebrating Joni's birth in Bedford. Just last week the Sanctuary Record Group re-released his wonderful Avocet album on the Castle label and I can recommend it. First released in about 1978, it's never been available on CD before and is entirely instrumental, featuring great bass playing from Danny Thompson, mandocello, violin and flute by Martin Jenkins and, of course, superb guitar work from Bert himself. It's a treat I've been waiting for for so long. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:54:42 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. In a message dated 07/10/2003 09:44:24 GMT Daylight Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: << This one takes the cake as the most insane article I've read so far. At first I thought it was satire from the Onion, but the guy appears to be serious. It's scary and funny at the same time that people actually concoct and believe such stuff. >> Kakki, I know you tend to put a positive slant on the Republicans and their works (you used the term "Pollyanna" about yourself), but I just don't know how you or anyone else can have such faith that the Republicans are above-board, after the electoral fraud that was perpetrated in Florida - or are you going to tell us that that too was a figment of the left's imagination? I think it's sad and worrying that a man with zero political savvy but boundless ego and ambition can get so far on such a blatantly meretricious campaign. While he can't help it if his father was a Nazi, I find his lionisation of Kurt Waldheim very problematic and his attitude to women neanderthal, while his dissembling about whether or not he was going to accept any outside funding for his campaign suggests that he is not playing it straight. He has had an expertly orchestrated campaign (I'll give him that!) which, as has been widely noted, has involved very little opportunity for people to question him; this is understandable, given his rudimentary grasp of the issues, but doesn't California deserve better? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:59:05 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Joan Baez in Greenville << the crowd, most of whom were WAY older than even Murphy >> Subject: Re: california recall njc for bob & anyone else intereste njc Azeem wrote: I do believe that > Schwarzenegger is a joke candidate who knows next to nothing about any of the > sorts of issues you need to have at least nodding acquaintance with if you want > to do that job. Maybe so but then again neither did Georgie boy and look for it did for him. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:04:53 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. I couldn't agree with your perspective more, Azeem. I understand the complexity and intrigues of the kali powerbroker elite and royal court kakki outlined, I in no way trust any of these wealthy men individually, corporately or civicly or as to regard guarding the common weal as superior to guarding their own vested interests and that definitely would include Arnold. Everyone knows that most business dealings are consumated over drinners, drinks and a couple holes in nine leads the bottom line often scribbled on napkins. Everyone also knows that nepotism and crony-ism are alive and well... and that the grapevine is still the commonest route to employment. Given that, Arnold on record as present with the energy men throughout the Court maneuverings, if nothing else, implies a possible agenda he might tacitly be bringing to the table on behalf of that interest group now that he is aspiring to political office. I see that as something to be concerned about to the degree I think it should be investigated more throughly before I would consider voting for him. As you mentioned, I don't know that he has an real understanding of what he is doing. All I ask is evidence that he is other than a grinning gladhand for the shiny set. AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 07/10/2003 09:44:24 GMT Daylight Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: << This one takes the cake as the most insane article I've read so far. At first I thought it was satire from the Onion, but the guy appears to be serious. It's scary and funny at the same time that people actually concoct and believe such stuff. >> Kakki, I know you tend to put a positive slant on the Republicans and their works (you used the term "Pollyanna" about yourself), but I just don't know how you or anyone else can have such faith that the Republicans are above-board, after the electoral fraud that was perpetrated in Florida - or are you going to tell us that that too was a figment of the left's imagination? I think it's sad and worrying that a man with zero political savvy but boundless ego and ambition can get so far on such a blatantly meretricious campaign. While he can't help it if his father was a Nazi, I find his lionisation of Kurt Waldheim very problematic and his attitude to women neanderthal, while his dissembling about whether or not he was going to accept any outside funding for his campaign suggests that he is not playing it straight. He has had an expertly orchestrated campaign (I'll give him that!) which, as has been widely noted, has involved very little opportunity for people to question him; this is understandable, given his rudimentary grasp of the issues, but doesn't California deserve better? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:05:21 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. That was great! That earns you a spot in the same post as counterpoint, if you don't mind. I will wait for your permission...by the way,can I slap you back? :) Louise ps thanx for the tip on the nonoperative link... the correction: http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/utilities/pr/pr003708.php3 kakki wrote: Cul, This one takes the cake as the most insane article I've read so far. At first I thought it was satire from the Onion, but the guy appears to be serious. It's scary and funny at the same time that people actually concoct and believe such stuff. The link to the consumerwatchdog.org does not work so I couldn't see what they have to say but CA is $38-50 billion in the hole, not $8 billion. The lawsuit to try to get back money from the energy companies was brought on behalf of (and widely supported by) the people of CA, not by Cruz personally. His name as a plaintiff is a formality as a government official representing the people. Here's the background in a nutshell. CA deregulated the electricity utility companies who were forced to sell off their generating plants to independent operators. In that deal the utility companies earned a windfall. In exchange for that windfall the State set it up where the utility companies could not raise their electricity rates to consumers but the generators could charge any rate they wanted to the utilities in part to enable them to raise revenue to convert to "green" energy sources. However, even with the "green" energy sources, oil was still required to run the plants to some extent. The FERC and the Cal. Pub. Util. Comm. approved all prices set for oil and gas being sold to the generators not only from Enron but many, many other fuel suppliers. The generators raised their prices to the utilitiy companies and in a short time the utilities refused/said they couldn't pay. The generators sued for the back payments (hundreds of millions of dollars). Two of the utilities then declared bankruptcy and the other said they didn't have the money (although there was lots of money set aside in a holding company). Gray Davis then came in and rescued the utility companies from their debt by making the State of CA pay for the contracts (at the advice of utility co. executives) at the highest market price. It's very complicated and very messy, not to mention shady on many levels. Why some people insist on continuing to say this is about Bush and Enron (and now Arnold?!) is beyond the pale. It's about CA and the utilities and Davis and FERC and CPUC. Period. Much of it has already been litigated extensively and these are the facts and findings of many CA and Federal courts. Geez Louise! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 05:06:13 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: Re: njc Ah nold ...ah no thanx. That was great! That earns you a spot in the same post as counterpoint, if you don't mind. I will wait for your permission...by the way,can I slap you back? :) Louise ps thanx for the tip on the nonoperative link... the correction: http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/utilities/pr/pr003708.php3 kakki wrote: Cul, This one takes the cake as the most insane article I've read so far. At first I thought it was satire from the Onion, but the guy appears to be serious. It's scary and funny at the same time that people actually concoct and believe such stuff. The link to the consumerwatchdog.org does not work so I couldn't see what they have to say but CA is $38-50 billion in the hole, not $8 billion. The lawsuit to try to get back money from the energy companies was brought on behalf of (and widely supported by) the people of CA, not by Cruz personally. His name as a plaintiff is a formality as a government official representing the people. Here's the background in a nutshell. CA deregulated the electricity utility companies who were forced to sell off their generating plants to independent operators. In that deal the utility companies earned a windfall. In exchange for that windfall the State set it up where the utility companies could not raise their electricity rates to consumers but the generators could charge any rate they wanted to the utilities in part to enable them to raise revenue to convert to "green" energy sources. However, even with the "green" energy sources, oil was still required to run the plants to some extent. The FERC and the Cal. Pub. Util. Comm. approved all prices set for oil and gas being sold to the generators not only from Enron but many, many other fuel suppliers. The generators raised their prices to the utilitiy companies and in a short time the utilities refused/said they couldn't pay. The generators sued for the back payments (hundreds of millions of dollars). Two of the utilities then declared bankruptcy and the other said they didn't have the money (although there was lots of money set aside in a holding company). Gray Davis then came in and rescued the utility companies from their debt by making the State of CA pay for the contracts (at the advice of utility co. executives) at the highest market price. It's very complicated and very messy, not to mention shady on many levels. Why some people insist on continuing to say this is about Bush and Enron (and now Arnold?!) is beyond the pale. It's about CA and the utilities and Davis and FERC and CPUC. Period. Much of it has already been litigated extensively and these are the facts and findings of many CA and Federal courts. Geez Louise! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:15:55 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Joan Baez in Greenville On 10/6/03 9:26 PM, "SCJoniGuy@aol.com" wrote: > All in all, it was a wonderful concert. Joan seemed to truly enjoy herself, > and there is no doubt that the folks in the Handlebar, myself included, were > with her all the way. I might just break my streak and pick up a Joan Baez > disc! Well, it only took 40 years to convince you! So glad you finally got to see her. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:41:42 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Matthew Shepard - NJC Matthew Shepard was savagely beaten five years ago tonight because he was gay. He died six days later, on 12 October 1998. At the trial of one of his killers, his father Dennis gave a courtroom statement that provided a moving denunciation of such violence and that provided witness to the pricelessness of the life that had been lost. That moving statement can be found at http://www.matthewsplace.com/dennis2.htm This vicious murder occurred just weeks after Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott said that homosexuality "is a sickness, like kleptomania and alcoholism". His statement was not denounced by a single prominent Republican leader, including Governor George W. Bush. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:52:00 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: Matthew Shepard - NJC Jerry wrote: > Matthew Shepard was savagely beaten five years ago tonight because he was > gay. He died six days later, on 12 October 1998. >This vicious murder occurred just weeks after Senate Majority Leader Trent >Lott said that homosexuality "is a sickness, like kleptomania and >alcoholism". His statement was not denounced by a single prominent >Republican leader, including Governor George W. Bush. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Jerry. I saw the play entitled, "The Laramie Project" last year at a local high school and it was extremely moving. The director told the audience afterward, that a national right-wing radio talk show host had publicly denounced the fact that high school kids were involved in this play. Very sad. Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:49:48 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Joan Baez in Greenville > Well, it only took 40 years to convince you! So glad you > finally got to see > her. My presence there was only because of guys like you & Mark who continue to sell her. So thanks for that, it was really a great show, one I'll always remember. I forgot to mention her opening line which was: "I can't believe I'm still doing this after 40 years, and on top of that, that you're still coming to see it!" Also, meant to add that she dedicated "Long Black Veil" to Johnny Cash and said she knew him when he was young and handsome, but could tell he only had eyes for June. She recalled singing with him and Mimi Farina very fondly. Bob NP: Lucinda, "Are You Down" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:59:54 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? In a message dated 10/7/2003 12:09:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Cactustree78@aol.com writes: so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? People's Parties is an amazing little glimpse into Joni's psyche, and brilliant because it's one of those situations we can all relate to. The interesting thing is that I could see myself as any one of the various people, depending on my mood or degree of comfort or discomfort, from Jack behind his joker to being in a frightened silence thinking I don't understand. And then, we are treated to that gorgeous bridge going into "the same situation..." Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:04:48 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Murphy's comment NJC Smurph wrote: > home of Siegfried &Roy -- and other casinos. > But the way the Mirage wasted absolutely no time in laying off the 200+ > people associated with the S &R show really sickens me Well, I heard this morning that Caesars Palace will be hiring them to work the Colosseum. They're also going to put the tigers in with Celine Dion :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:09:45 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Murphy's comment NJC Jimmy writes: << They're also going to put the tigers in with Celine Dion :~) >> They'll starve! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:18:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Catherine Finn Subject: Re: Joni on others Okay. I admit to both hyperbole and ignorance on the Alanis bashing front. I have never actually listened to one of her albums and only know her "hits," which haven't impressed me. My point was I can see why Joni is annoyed with be compared with other female songwriters just because she's female. To be fair, it isn't just the women who don't compare. I don't think there are many good songwriters, male or female, on mainstream radio. Tori Amos is right up there, and I think it is so awesome that she only listens to Joni and Led Zepplin. I think Led Zepplin has more in common with Joni than any of the "girls with guitars" because of their harmonic complexity and musical innovation. I really liked Counting Crowes first album ("step out the front door like a ghost into a fog where no one notices the contrast of white on white" is up there with the great first lines of pop histery) but didn't follow their career after that, and really hate their cover of BYT. Other than that, not many new artists can move me like Joni or Dylan or Lennon/McCartney or Paul Simon. I don't know what it was about the cultural/artistic/business climate of the 60s, but it doesn't seem like anyone with real artistry has cracked the "popular" mainstream the way they did back then. Of course, I came of age in the 80s, which was a fairly low ebb for accoustic singer/songwriters. I thought the Lilith Fair/girls with guitars trend was the start of something, but it just sort of faded away and left us with Clay and Ruben. Just my .017 euros. ;-) c AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 06/10/2003 21:59:43 GMT Daylight Time, Rusty10113@aol.com writes: << gotta agree that comparitively speaking, Alanis pales vs. Joni, but I don't really even consider Alanis a confessional artist... but I love the way she tackles spiritual issues and claims her own self worth... >> One thing Alanis has done that Joni hasn't: Played God on screen :-) Azeem in London Just watched Dogma on telly... The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:40:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: correction (california recall) njc >Yes and it's almost free to most CA residents - around $500 a year or so for tuition and most people commute from home. The new bill would pay for university level (meaning UCLA, Berkeley, etc.) educations for illegal immigrants. That costs about $20,000 for tuition, room & board, books etc. a year. A big difference in cost.< that bill makes no sense (but perhaps that is your point :~}) to send people directly to the university when the cc system is much cheaper...in california the cc's have always been the door to higher education for immigrants, with such a strong esl division & there have always been state grants & private scholarships to help low income people with the costs of attending...so why this legislation would not be utilizing the system already in place is odd to me...the uc system has become much more competitive & has recently raised tuition...there was a transfer guarantee that used to exist between certain cc's & uc's in that a student would be guaranteed admission to the uc upon graduating from the cc (if they meet requirements & gpa) but for the first time this year some students have been locked out from transfer due to space at the uc...so for many reasons this bill makes no sense to me...i used to be so in the middle of all this kind of cc/uc legislative stuff but since i'm no longer working in the thick of it i'm not...now i'll have to find out more about this bill, without any party/election spin to it...thanks kakki for the info... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:48:12 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? "...me and my frightened silence thinking I don't understand" or if I've been drinking "standing in the centre"! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:07 AM Subject: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > Hello All :P > > I was listening to C & S this weekend ...I started to think about how I really relate to the line in Peoples Parties > "Some are standing in the centre Giving to get something" so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? I casted all of my friedns at the party also...Its amazing hpw I could fit each one of them there ...Anyway im interested to see what you all say...I hope you are having a nice day enjoying the Autum if you are on the east cost..much love to all ***kevin*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:52:17 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle Yes and the Suzanne Vega best of is packed with great songs from 85 to the present day. Also Joni only had one hit single in the uk; 'Big Yellow Taxi' which didn't even make top 10 (just missed - 11) and we know she has done so much more. ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Joni is a miracle > >To lots of people out there, Tracy Chapman and Suzanne Vega are just > one-hit-wonders.... > And where are they now?.< > > i recently saw tracy on her tour & i'd never call her a one hit wonder...as > to where she is now, well she is writing, recording & touring...i wouldn't > have been at her show if i hadn't been asked to review it however...but she > put on an excellent show--just before her encore she kicked 'give me one > reason' into an amazing r&b groove & she sang like aretha...then the encore > of 'proud mary' & 'change is gonna come'... eastmountainsouth was her > opener... > > i think its deceptive to judge an artists vitality or longevity by whether > you are hearing them on the radio or whether they have 'hits'... many > songwriters who were once in the spotlight are still out there writing & > playing & making a good living...(by the look of her tour busses tracy is > making a very good living!) > > ******************************************** > Kate Bennett > www.katebennett.com > sponsored by Polysonics > Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: > http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html > ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:57:00 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! > Bob writes; > I don't see anything in those lyrics that is overly profound. She did a much > better job of tackling that issue with one line from Chinese Cafe: Well Joni was only in her late 30's when she wrote 'Chinese Cafe'. I hope when I'm that age I'm not considered 'over the hill' where as 'Nothing Can Be Done' she wrote nearing her 50's - not that I'm saying your 'over the hill' then but I think you would consider yourself an 'older' person. Oh no I hope no one takes this the wrong way! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: RE: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > --------------------------------------------- > Must I surrender > With grace > The things I loved when I was younger > (Sweet embrace) > Must I remember your face > So well > What do I do here with this hunger > > > I always found this verse to be very emontional, as I feel she one more > time sings out the pain of giving up Kelly Dale and even after so many years she > can still remember that little face so well. It's heartbreaking For me it > stirs up the pain of will she ever see that baby again, probably the biggest > hunger she ever had. Now that's something profound about growing older. > > Peace > Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:03:31 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle On 10/7/03 1:52 PM, "StephenToogood" wrote: > Yes and the Suzanne Vega best of is packed with great songs from 85 to the > present day. Also Joni only had one hit single in the uk; 'Big Yellow Taxi' > which didn't even make top 10 (just missed - 11) and we know she has done so > much more. > Speaking of BYT, after all this time the Counting Crows/Vanessa Carlton version has moved UP the charts to #6. Surely this is a chart record of longevity for a Joni tune. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:02:57 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? I've kind of mastered it on the guitar now (I do it so the open chord is D# - my voice isn't always so adaptable) and I have to try and catch my breath. It simply stuns me how she fly through that song effortlessly - it's gone in the blink of an eye. Yeah I love the bridge to 'Same Situation' but also love the MOI version. ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > In a message dated 10/7/2003 12:09:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > Cactustree78@aol.com writes: > so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? > > People's Parties is an amazing little glimpse into Joni's psyche, and > brilliant because it's one of those situations we can all relate to. The interesting > thing is that I could see myself as any one of the various people, depending > on my mood or degree of comfort or discomfort, from Jack behind his joker to > being in a frightened silence thinking I don't understand. > And then, we are treated to that gorgeous bridge going into "the same > situation..." > > > Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:06:18 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle - now singles NJC Wow singles really do stay in the charts for a while over there. Nowadays in the UK a single usually enters at it's peak position and drops out in a couple of weeks or so. It's so contrived! ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Notaro" To: "StephenToogood" ; "Joni List" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 7:03 PM Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle > On 10/7/03 1:52 PM, "StephenToogood" wrote: > > > Yes and the Suzanne Vega best of is packed with great songs from 85 to the > > present day. Also Joni only had one hit single in the uk; 'Big Yellow Taxi' > > which didn't even make top 10 (just missed - 11) and we know she has done so > > much more. > > > > Speaking of BYT, after all this time the Counting Crows/Vanessa Carlton > version has moved UP the charts to #6. Surely this is a chart record of > longevity for a Joni tune. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:24:32 -0400 From: "Christopher Treacy" Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? Definitely Jack behind his joker - hands down. - -Chris NP: Fragile - Cassandra Wilson - ----- Original Message ----- From: "StephenToogood" To: "Joni List" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > I've kind of mastered it on the guitar now (I do it so the open chord is > D# - my voice isn't always so adaptable) and I have to try and catch my > breath. It simply stuns me how she fly through that song effortlessly - it's > gone in the blink of an eye. Yeah I love the bridge to 'Same Situation' but > also love the MOI version. > > ************** > Steve T > > amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk > > "Red is autumn green is summer > Greens are turning and the sand" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: WHICH PERSON AT THE PARTY ARE YOU?? > > > > In a message dated 10/7/2003 12:09:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > Cactustree78@aol.com writes: > > so I pose the question...Which person at the party are you?? > > > > People's Parties is an amazing little glimpse into Joni's psyche, and > > brilliant because it's one of those situations we can all relate to. The > interesting > > thing is that I could see myself as any one of the various people, > depending > > on my mood or degree of comfort or discomfort, from Jack behind his joker > to > > being in a frightened silence thinking I don't understand. > > And then, we are treated to that gorgeous bridge going into "the same > > situation..." > > > > > > Ken H ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:38:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: urgent message to the list this is very important so i am not using the label. yesterday i downloaded the plaxo address updating software. it was recommended by a person i trust. little did i know that it would cause so much trouble. i uninstalled it immediately (my mail program crashed and i suspected something had gone awry) but to eliminate the files completely is very hard and it will keep sending the f*cking update notice to everyone anyway. PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE. JUST IGNORE THE MESSAGE AND DELETE IT. some people, who knew about the plaxo scam, have justifiably given me hell in their replies. i apologize. you can't know how embarrassed and stupid i feel. please forgive me for having been so ignorant about this thing. i never meant to cause anybody any inconvenience. i am so sorry i could shoot myself. wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:39:37 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: urgent message to the list please someone copy my plaxo message to the list so that aol people can read it. wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 16:20:58 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NCBD- Dud? Oui! Oui! > Oh no > I hope no one takes this the wrong way! Well I certainly didn't, Stephen...and I think it's a rationalization to look at Joni's age with these songs and use that as some kind of a filter...some of the most powerful songs she wrote about aging were written in the 60's! The Circle Game & Both Sides Now being 2 that spring to mind...did she have to experience watching a child grow up to write so eloquently about it in Circle Game? Sure, it was an 'answer song' to Neil's "Sugar Mountain" but it goes so much deeper than that & works on so many levels. Both of these songs are much stronger lyrically than they're given credit for, I would say. And you would think that songs written 20-something years later would be better due to honing of the craft, but I don't see that to be the case comparing NCBD to these 2 songs ...actually quite the opposite! There's more maturity in the 60's songs than in NCBD. One of the reasons they have been covered so many times is that they are DAMN good songs. I mean...she takes the painted pony imagery and then says "We're CAPTIVE on the Carousel of time..." Man, that's powerful stuff. NCBD is probably a song that most songwriters could be proud of, but Joni ain't "most songwriters"...her bar is a lot higher. Bob NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Mink Coat At The Bus Stop" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:26:04 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni is a miracle - now singles NJC Steve writes: << Wow singles really do stay in the charts for a while over there. >> I've been noticing this for the last 5+ years. It didn't used to be that way. I have no idea why it's that way now. I first started noticing this when Cher's "Believe" was a hit for about a year. I sure miss Brenda's commentary on stuff like this . . . --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:07:32 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: urgent message to the list (NJC) Don't shoot yourself, Wally! You're forgiven already!!! Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:42:05 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: urgent message to the list (for Aol members) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: Enviado: martes, 07 de octubre de 2003 21:38 Asunto: urgent message to the list > this is very important so i am not using the label. > > yesterday i downloaded the plaxo address updating software. it was > recommended by a person i trust. little did i know that it would cause so > much trouble. i uninstalled it immediately (my mail program crashed and i > suspected something had gone awry) but to eliminate the files completely is > very hard and it will keep sending the f*cking update notice to everyone > anyway. > > PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE. JUST IGNORE THE MESSAGE AND DELETE IT. > > some people, who knew about the plaxo scam, have justifiably given me hell > in their replies. i apologize. you can't know how embarrassed and stupid i > feel. please forgive me for having been so ignorant about this thing. i > never meant to cause anybody any inconvenience. > > i am so sorry i could shoot myself. > > wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:50:02 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: urgent message to the list (for Aol members) Wally - I know people who use this system, and my colleague checked on it with our IT person who said it was OK. So, don't go shooting yourself over this. Honestly, so much drama. Much love, Maggie -----Original Message----- From: Emiliano [mailto:emilianopd@mundo-r.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 5:42 PM To: JMDL Subject: Fw: urgent message to the list (for Aol members) ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: Enviado: martes, 07 de octubre de 2003 21:38 Asunto: urgent message to the list > this is very important so i am not using the label. > > yesterday i downloaded the plaxo address updating software. it was > recommended by a person i trust. little did i know that it would cause so > much trouble. i uninstalled it immediately (my mail program crashed and i > suspected something had gone awry) but to eliminate the files completely is > very hard and it will keep sending the f*cking update notice to everyone > anyway. > > PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE. JUST IGNORE THE MESSAGE AND DELETE IT. > > some people, who knew about the plaxo scam, have justifiably given me hell > in their replies. i apologize. you can't know how embarrassed and stupid i > feel. please forgive me for having been so ignorant about this thing. i > never meant to cause anybody any inconvenience. > > i am so sorry i could shoot myself. > > wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:14:47 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: NJC Joan Baez on tour, sharon isbin playing joan baez i think i mentioned that sharon isbin had commissioned a piece that would be arrangements of music associated with joan baez, on solo guitar. and about sharon meeting joan after joan's town hall (ny) performance last fall. well, (julius will kill me for not making an announcement) on oct 3 last friday, the same night that joan's tour began, sharon gave the world premiere of 'joan baez suite' in san francisco. so obviously joan couldn't be there, but she sent a big basket of flowers and a nice note. paul liberatore, a fine music writer with the marin independent journal who is joan's brother-in-law (he was married to mimi fariqa until she died) escorted joan's 90-year old mom (also named joan baez) to sharon's recital and they took sharon out afterward to a 2 1/2 hour dinner. sharon described joan sr. as amazing. i love my job. just hearing about these moments... patrick np - john adams - my father knew charles ives ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:37:35 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The Tea Leaf Prophecy, liner notes on In the liner notes for "The Tea Leaf Prophecy", Joni said nothing. No paragraph about her mother. Nothing. Is she saving it for the (rumored) book? Did she skip this song because she's already spilled it in interviews? What? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 21:56:24 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: The Tea Leaf Prophecy, liner notes on Then there are not liner notes for every song? Which other songs did she skip? At 09:37 PM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote: >In the liner notes for "The Tea Leaf Prophecy", Joni said nothing. Lama - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:00:44 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #506 - valid comparisons, etc. Comparing Joni Mitchell to Alanis Morisette because they are both female is like comparing Bob Dylan to Adam Sandler becaue they are both Jewish. Oh c'mon, they're both Canadian too! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:07:35 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #506 - Joan's new one NJC Subject: Re: NJC Joan Baez in Greenville Now that I've listened several times to Joan's new CD "Dark Chords..." I have to say it's very good. The songs she chose for this collection are first rate and the arrangements are funkier/rootsier than her previous work. I think it's one of her best post-70s albums. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:00:11 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Alanis << From: Catherine Finn Subject: Re: Joni on others Comparing Joni Mitchell to Alanis Morisette because they are both female is like comparing Bob Dylan to Adam Sandler becaue they are both Jewish. Alanis Morissette, how can I put this delicately, um, sucks. >> Catherine: Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion but I wouldn't say Alanis "sucks"; I certainly wouldn't compare her to Joni either. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:06:58 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: october 6!!!!! njc YO Darice!!! Step away from the Guacamole Dip there girl! Have a great day and many happy Croz and gang experiences for you this coming year. Love Paz > happy birthday, darice! > love, > wally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:26:27 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: quote of the day-NJC quote of the day Date: 10/7/03 6:42:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: Nick.Cuccia@latimes.com (Cuccia, Nick) To: nacinla@pacbell.net (Tony Cuccia (E-mail)) CC: Jg90049@aol.com (John Gibson (E-mail)) At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, a Scottish history professor by the name of Professor Alexander Tyler had this to say about "The Fall of the Athenian Republic" over 2,000 years previous to that date. "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse (generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence. From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency; from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back into bondage." - ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:47:17 EDT From: Lazyasz@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and the other Girls Kate Bush and Laurie Anderson. Two women who I would say could equal Joni in terms of their full talents as story-tellers and presenters. Especially Kate Bush, who I feel in many instances even exceeds Joni's abilities in terms of songwriting and producing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 02:13:09 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 8 On October 8 the following articles were published: 1998: "Balm From a Musical Touchstone" - Atlanta Journal and Constitution (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=39 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - Hartford Courant (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=121 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:47:27 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: The omnipresent BYT reference Thanks to Counting Crows I guess BYT references are everywhere recently. This one, at the end of the article, sums up this week's big news item. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/10/08/GRAY.TMP ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #507 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)