From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #502 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, October 5 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 502 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni cracks me up... [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: Joni cracks me up... ["StephenToogood" ] "Lakota", the story behind the song... ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: American Indian song subject njc ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Duds - long ["Mark or Travis" ] My trip to Malaysia sjc [=?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= ] thanks to LAMA ["Janine Sherman" ] (njc) Stryngs live at Jonifest MP3s [Chris Marshall ] Re: duds - long because of some lists [Bobsart48@aol.com] election night flashback - njc (humor) ["patrick leader" ] Re: thanks to LAMA [Emiliano ] Re: budget shortfalls njc [Catherine McKay ] joni's byt on SNL sketch ["Suze Cameron" ] Today's Library Links: October 5 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 03:12:12 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Joni cracks me up... "Tracy Chapman wrote a coupla good songs, but generally speaking she's not that musically gifted. And Suzanne Vega, well..." Always humble, always diplomatic. This was from an early 90s interview. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 09:14:51 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Joni cracks me up... LOL she just says it how she sees it (or hears it) I guess! Didn't Larry Klein produce one of Tracy Chapman's albums? ************** Steve T amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk "Red is autumn green is summer Greens are turning and the sand" - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:12 AM Subject: Joni cracks me up... > "Tracy Chapman wrote a coupla good songs, but generally speaking she's not > that musically gifted. And Suzanne Vega, well..." > > Always humble, always diplomatic. This was from an early 90s interview. > > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:38:05 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: "Lakota", the story behind the song... "Hey-ya-ho-ho, hey-ya-ho, hey-ya-ho, hey-ya, hey-ya," i know that song, have heard it a lot from the hopi & chumash who i have mingled with throughout my life...tonight i was at a slide show of friends who i used to live with during my 'canyon lady' days & there in several of the slides was the hopi elder who used to visit us...the one i just had written about earlier (thomas banyanca) on the subject of not taking things from the moon... weird syncronicity tonight.. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:49:09 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Subject: 50 Years and Joni and the Blues at the Check Mate Lounge now NJC Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 03:17:55 EDT From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: 50 Years and Joni and the Blues at the Check Mate Lounge >>I made it to 50 years 10-02-53. I met a man who told me a story of meeting Dylan Thomas in an NYC bar drinking whiskey with an Egg in the glass, Dylan Thomas died in 53 of course.<< And in DTs (what appropriate initials) most famous work, 'Under Milk Wood', there is a reference to eggs and alcohol: Mr Waldo is hurrying to the Sailors' Arms to have his customary pint of stout with an egg in it when the postman hands him 'another paternity summons'. He reaches the bar and says to Sinbad Sailors, the barman, "Quick Sinbad. Pint of stout. And no egg in". Stout (dark, heavy beer) with an egg in is/was not uncommon but whiskey with an egg in is something new for me. meic in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:01:18 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: re: American Indian song subject Stephen wrote: <> Mia added >>Joni is also part Native American Indian... However, Joni admits that she does have Indian blood in her, and this is something that she was taught to deny while growing up. She explains that there was a sort of caste system in Canada, and that everyone who had part Indian blood was taught to deny it.<< Mike asks if anyone can give any further information on Joni's Native American blood/line. Is there objective proof of this? Where exactly does she say this? mike in barcelona ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 12:29:06 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: American Indian song subject njc >>Then I finally understood what the grandfather with the brogue was all about.<< Bob, I am truly sorry to hear your grandfather only wore one shoe. That explains a lot about you. Thanks for being brave enough to share this with us... mike - no Irish blood that I know of, although I was born 60 miles from Dublin. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 07:54:56 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re:New Rufus (njc) In a message dated 10/4/03 3:01:44 AM, KJHSF@aol.com writes: << np Rufus Wainwright/Oh what a World (sounds like he came through the awfulness of crystal meth addiction with his talent intact and growing.) >> Hi, Ken (from another Ken) Just bought the album last night and listened to it before going to bed. Very good throughout but lacking a really memorable song (imo) to compare with the best of his last two albums. In spite of my seemingly disappointment, I'd still consider it a "good" collection and must listen to it a few more times to get a fuller impression. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 08:19:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Duds - long per your request, here's my list of Duds > > In order of their release- > > 1. Pirate of Penance: > 2. Roses Blue: > 3. The Tenth World: > 4. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): > 5. The Tea Leaf Prophecy (Lay Down Your Arms): > 6. Dancin' Clown: > 7. Snakes And Ladders: > 8. Nothing Can Be Done: > 9. No Apologies: > 10. OK, so you got me...I only come up with 9. Of ALL the rest of her stuff , I> enjoy them on some level; musically, > rhythmically, lyrically...but these 9 all swing & miss at all 3 of these > pitches as far as I'm concerned. > > Well, I must admit, this is a strong list of weaker songs. I had a feeling I might get one from you, which is why I singled you out (although I knew Dancin Clown and Tea Leaf would be on this list and would raise my objections). And, I respect that you kept it to 9, via a set of logical criteria. After all, Hejira only needed 9 songs to accomplish its purpose ;~) I have not even made up my own 'bottom 10' yet, but several of these would surely be on it. What I found especially interesting about your reply were the 3 broad criteria you cited - musically, rhymically and lyrically. IMO, 'rhythmically' is part of 'musically', and is one of perhaps a half dozen sub categories that I look for within that category. Also, I think 10th World is good rhtymically (as are Dancin Clown and even Pirate of Penance) - I wonder if you agree upon reconsideration. For me, doing well within one of the various musical categories is not necessarily enough to sustain musical interest for me - except that a stong melody is always enough for me - so I could consider a song a dud even it was good at one of the other categories. Let me list mine melody line harmonies/counterpoint instrumental arrangements rhythm vocal delivery instrumental virtuosity (including rhytm section) engineering/production For me, an intangible - the 'connection' between the music and the lyrics - is my third criterion for 'greatness' (but that is not the issue here, of course). Within the above, I would not throw out Pirate as a dud, because I think it is interesting lyrically as a show tune type of piece (shows off Joni's versatility) and has some interesting and ambitious counterpoint/melody. That said, I would list it in Joni's bottom quartile, and I often skip it when listening to STAS, since it does not fit the rest of the album, and IMO kills the mood of that record. I agree with you that I wish she had left it off. A decent melody is important to me, but not 100% necessary. Examples of how a song can transcend that are all over CMIAR - perhaps the melody line is a line in the sand for you. Note that Joni included The Reoccurring Dream on Misses. One last thought is your inclusion of Nothing Can Be Done. The credit for the music goes solely to Larry Klein (words by Joni). I do not even consider it her composition - if it's a dud, it's their dud, rather than her dud. And, while I agree with you that I find it to be among the dullest offerings (both lyrically and musically) on Joni's recordings, I note that she included it on Misses. Why do you suppose she did that ? Given that she did, I would feel constrained from putting it on my '10 worst' list (recall that I decline to call it my 'duds' list) - even if I felt it were eligible (which I do not) - out of respect for Joni's opinion. More on misses and duds to follow, I hope. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:16:49 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Refuge of the Roads Mia wrote > But the best example may be in Refuge of the Roads: > > In a highway service station > Over the month of June > Was a photograph of the earth > Taken coming back from the moon And you couldn't see a city > On that marbled bowling ball > Or a forest or a highway > Or me here least of all > You couldn't see these cold water restrooms > Or this baggage overload > Westbound and rolling taking refuge in the roads > > This passage seems to stress just how insignificant we all are now, when > compared with the magnitude of the cosmos. > > Mia - I well up with affection everytime I read the lyrics to that song (such a great song - the music is a distraction from the lyrics and vice versa, IMO). I just finished the album Hejira in my 'song of the day' project to Leah. I was about to embark on DJRD. However, I had e-mailed her the songs Hejira and Refuge of the Road over 6 months ago, at the very beginning, to give her a sneak peek at the development that took place between STAS and Hejira, which she was about to witness. Now that Leah is a convert, I felt compelled to send these two songs to her again, before we got into DJRD, lest she forget that they were part of Hejira (I did this yesterday). Two of Joni's greatest songs, IMO. Maybe instead of Hits and Misses, it should have been Hits and Masterpieces, with a slightly different lineup for the latter CD. Then, she wouldn't have had to try Travelogue. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:23:07 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Refuge of the Roads > > Hey that's a helluva idea Bob, she could have named it "Missterpieces"! :~) > > Bob > > By "Misster Joni Mitchell" Parfait !!!! :-) Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:40:55 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Refuge of the Roads Bob Sart wrote to Bob Muller: << By "Misster Joni Mitchell" Parfait !!!! :-) >> Bob Dylan would love it. (And I bet Joni would too.) --Bob, who had no intention of cramming so many Bobs into one post ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:45:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Duds - long Subject: re:Lakota Lakota came to life for me on the '88 San Remo Songfest disc. She does an acoustic Lakota that is breathtaking. It allows the lyric to shine and Joni's emotive singing is beyond Joniesque. This is one of my favorite live performances, even tho it is only 5 tunes and Joni has a cold. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 09:58:49 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Duds - long > 1. Pirate of Penance: The melody is all over the map, and the vocals > are way too busy. (But I'm working on it Mia!) This song has always intrigued me. I see Penance Crane as a woman who is very repressed and presents a very pious face to the world. To her, life is a penance and being around her for long makes anybody else believe that it is too. The dancer is more of a free spirit. I think Joni does an admirable job of delineating two distinct characters. So although it's not on my list of top 10, I do like this song and think it's a good representation of Joni's genius. Definitely not a dud, imo. > 2. Roses Blue: While I like the appropriate haunting quality of the > melody, I find it annoying and the lyrics are so privatized and > mysterious I just shrug them off. Bob, sit down. I agree with you on this one. Although someone did point out the lyric structure here once and it made me appreciate it a bit more. The last word of each verse is the first word of the next. Clever. But I still find this one to be somewhat trite, I think, for the heavy-handed treatment it's given. I don't know if that's really it, but I find it mildly annoying. I would include 'The Fiddle and the Drum' here. Key changes and a capella singing considered, I still find it on the simplistic and ponderous side. > (Now you've got to jump all the way to DJRD to find the next one!) > 3. The Tenth World: Mildly interesting, and a nice segue to > Dreamland, but it drones on & on far too long to keep my interest. I used to feel the same way about The Tenth World. I would always get antsy to have it over with. Now I don't mind it and even find it rather interesting. As you said, it's a good segue to Dreamland. > 4. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): Suffers from the exact opposite, too > short, imo...I love Larry's bass throw-ins and would have loved to > see where this could have gone with further explorlation; Bass, > sampled Cig machine, and Joni's vocal. But as it's released, it's > non-addictive. It's a throwaway, something cooked up on the spur of the moment. As such it works just fine on that level and is just the right length. My opinion, anyway. > 5. The Tea Leaf Prophecy (Lay Down Your Arms): No worthwhile melodic > structure (try and sing it acapella from memory and you'll see what I > mean), and unless you know the story about how her parents met it's > also too elusive lyrically, but I'll admit that if you do know the > story it's an interesting juxtaposition of telling the story > intertwined with anti-war stuff. See I don't think you have to know the 'back story' to this one. I think it's pretty self explanatory. And I really like the way 'study war no more' rolls around in the background. WWII affected the lives of a vast number of people on this planet. It threw these people together. They married, had a child, had doubts about the future, all due in part to the war. But like most humans, they carry on. I like this song and think it's one of the better ones on CMIARS which, I admit, is probably my least played Joni album. But not a bad record. I still maintain she's never made a bad album. > 6. Dancin' Clown: 'Nuff said - a turkey. Others have said it. It's just a bit of fun. I think it's very clever and works very well. Not a dud to my ears. > 7. Snakes And Ladders: Lacks interesting melody, there's no vocal > chemistry between her & Henley, the cliched 'storyline' is > unaffecting. Here's another one that I think is a bit of Joni brilliance. I love the interplay of the vocals and the way the thing moves. I think it's a great arrangement of a darn good song. Another highpoint of CMIARS for me. > 8. Nothing Can Be Done: See above (her songwriting style doesn't mesh > well > with Klein's, even she admits it). This is just one example. Not the most interesting melody or arrangement, I admit. But I really like the lyrics on this one. For someone looking at 50 next April, this song definitely strikes a chord. 'I am not old/I'm told/But I am not young/Oh and nothing can be done'. Yeah. > 9. No Apologies: Lyrically too unfocused, and dull musically as well. > Again, they lyrics suffer from being too privatized...Juan? Freddie? > who? A song shouldn't need a decoder ring to appreciate. Already posted about this one. I don't think it matters who Freddy or Juan are. The point is that Juan is a petty little tyrant, that bigger beasts abound and they kick this world around. Like school yard bullies. (of course I'm not counting BSN & T'log which have more duds > than a milk duds box) Dont' go there, Bob! Don't get me started! ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 18:00:41 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: My trip to Malaysia sjc Hi jmdlers! I recently went back to Malaysia so see my brother who lives on an island as a scuba instructor (the lucky bugger!). It was a very nostalgic trip as I hadn't seen Adam for nearly a year (he left his job in London to do this) and I hadn't been back to Malaysia for 4 years. Just before I went over he sent me a message saying 'make sure you bring your guitar!' and I said to him 'Are you sure? All I will/can play is Joni Mitchell!'. In my panic I quickly learned a few songs that can be played in open tuning (Sade's By Your Side' being one of them). On various nights on the beach I would just bring my guitar out to strum to myself and imagine the caves of Matala behind me andthe moon in front of me and the wind from Africa, not the Malay mainland. Well, as it seems, Joni is not unknown in those parts. Of course BYT got the most applause as the Counting Crow's version was played every 5 minutes on the radio in Malaysia.People could sing along to Both Sides Now which was nice. I also played a couple of unknowns. 'Amelia' which wasa surprise for Adam as it is one of his fovourite songs (he wanted to be a pilot before he started to wear glasses but the line 'swallowed by the sky, or by the sea' retained it's reverberations in his life, as he gets swallowed by the sea every time he dives. He loves that song. Night Ride Home was good as well as the song is set on an island and people seemed to sway a little (but probably to the cheap vodka more than anything else!). And my version of My Secret Place. After I put the guitar down (to drink more cheap beer and smoke more cheap cigarettes - I so need to give up after this holiday!!!) Adam's girlfriend, a German girl called Linda came up to me and said 'I don't know those songs that you sing but I like them, what they talk about, I can recognise. Like that line 'I was born and raised in New York City, I'm just getting used to Colorado'. I know what it means when you sing that.' Well that just made my evening! I mean, a girl who's English is not her first language but can certainly get the subtleties of my humour, and really digs these songs! I think Joni needs to tour with her guitar to the small venues. To my friends. And in my house. Is that so much to ask? ;) Anyway, I'm back now that my skin's turned brown and hopefully will see some of you UK jmdlersin Bedford in November! Much Joni Jamie Zoob - --------------------------------- Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo!Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 13:39:34 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: 33 years ago -- NIC Janis Joplin died on this date in 1970. (Where are you, Vince? You usually announce this. My job is to cover the third of June!) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:10:17 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Duds - long Subject: CPR/Neil Young show (NJC) - -----Forwarded Message----- From: Darice Sent: Oct 4, 2003 11:55 AM To: jon@smoe.org Subject: CPR/Neil Young show (NJC) I went to the Santa Ynez benefit show, too...and I want to add that Neil was absolutley amazing...he seemed to be winging it...just deciding on the spur of the moment what song to do...he started something and went into the "cowfield version" of Heart of Gold (according to him not what he intended to sing)...he had 6-7 guitars on stage, an organ and a piano (most of which went unused, so even his crew was in the dark as to what he planned to sing....) I drove 1200 miles in a rented RV so that my husband and my menagerie could travel in comfort....we had 2 adult dogs, 2 puppies, a 8 mo old cat and a 3 weeks old orphan cat we were hand raising (they seemed to like Neil's set, as they did not make a scene when left in the RV) Guacamole and Arts Outreach produced a fantastic show, their first in this venue, handicapped seating and parking were right at the entrance and in front of the mixing board (with REAL chairs)and the meadow as Kate said , was beautiful...the only complaint was that both CPR's and Neil's set were too short...I felt like I was in Neil's living room ,it was that intimate and personal. We spent Sunday night in Morro Bay and I drove the 25 ft RV all the way up the Coast to Monterey, a feat in a smaller vehicle. I wish I had known Kate was going to be there. Darice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 15:37:52 -0400 From: "Janine Sherman" Subject: thanks to LAMA Lama, Thanks so much for posting the Geffen Set liner notes and promoting its purchase. I love reading them. I think between reading Shadows and Light and Joni Companion I recall some of them, no matter, I still love hearing them again. NP:Destiny Rules- Fleetwood Mac Say You Will album ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 23:13:57 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: (njc) Stryngs live at Jonifest MP3s For those that are interested, I just wanted to let you know that live performances of two of our latest songs (not on the CD) are up for download at www.stryngs.com Thanks to Les Irvin for making sense out of a very large pile of DAT tapes and uploading the audio to us. Without him, and the efforts of everyone else involved in the recording process at Jonifest, we'd not have these to offer. Regards, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:05:47 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: duds - long because of some lists This is the list of those 25 songs dubbed so far as duds by various JMDL'ers (sorry if I missed anyones candidates). 1. "Dancin' Clown" 2. "Lakota" 3. "Ethiopia". 4. "Pirate of Penance" 5. "No Apologies" 6. "Good Friends," 7. "Snakes and Ladders." 8. "Last Chance Lost." .... 9. Lead Balloon 10. Stay In Touch 11. Blue Boy 12. Tax Free 13. Tea Leaf Prophecy 14. Cool Water 15. "The Windfall," 16. Number One 17. Reoccurring Dream 18. Ladies Man 19. "The Jungle Line" 20. "yvette in english" 21. "Underneath The Streetlight" 22. Roses Blue: 23. The Tenth World: 24. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): 25. Nothing Can Be Done Of these, 13 are from the '80's records and 7 are from the '90's. 3 are from the '60's and only 2 are from the '70's !!!!!. Here's my selection of 10 from these that I might make a CD from that I could listen to and enjoy (arranged in an order that I might prefer, given this motley concoction) - by the way, I think it would make a pretty good record: 1. "Underneath The Streetlight" 2. Ladies Man 3. Blue Boy 4. "The Jungle Line" 5. Number One 6. "The Windfall," 7. "Dancin' Clown" 8. "yvette in english" 9. "Last Chance Lost." 10. Stay In Touch Then, I would make a mini-record of 5 heavyweight political songs of some merit: 1. "Good Friends" 2. "Lakota" 3. Tea Leaf Prophecy 4. "Ethiopia" 5. Tax Free That leaves my least favorite 10 of this motley bunch (my apologies to Pirate of Penance, but I still cannot find the right mix of Joni songs I would want it in with) - by the way, the list is basically Bob Muller's concoction, minus Dancin Clown and Tea Leaf, plus Cool Water, Reoccurring Dream and Lead Balloon (which I believe Bob overlooked when hunting for a 10th entry on his list). Fine job, indeed, Bob M ! 1. "Pirate of Penance" 2. Roses Blue: 3. Nothing Can Be Done 4. "Snakes and Ladders." 5. The Tenth World: 6. Cool Water 7. Reoccurring Dream 8. Smokin' (Empty, Try Another): 9. Lead Balloon 10. "No Apologies" The themes in this last hypothetical CD are pretty nightmarish, in a macabre way, no ? Perhaps that is why these songs are on this list. Although there are a few songs on this list I am OK with on a stand alone basis (plus two that Joni saw fit to put on Misses !), this is indeed one CD that I would stay away from unless I needed to confront my demons :~0 Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 20:56:07 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: election night flashback - njc (humor) FLASH FORWARD TO ELECTION NIGHT-HARDBALL STYLE MATTHEWS: Welcome back to the special California Recall edition of HARDBALL. Tonight, we are joined by an extremely distinguished panel, former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan, Newsweeks political guru and the smartest man on the planet Howard Fineman, senior political analyst Lawrence ODonnell, and bleeding-heart liberal Democrat Pat Cadell. OK, lets get back to Arnolds big win. Howard, you were saying the attacks on Arnold didnt hurt him FINEMAN: Exactly. California voters were so ready to rid themselves of Democrat Gray Davis that they were willing to concede that their candidate hadnt lead a perfect life. MATTHEWS: OK, lets run down the timing. On Thursday we get the charges, the LA Times deal, chicks said Arnold got a little touchy-feely ODONNELL: Well, it was a bit more than that Chris. But not much. MATTHEWS: Then Friday we hear the quote that Arnold admired Hitler FINEMAN: Well, clearly the timing of this revelation was a sure sign of dirty politics, so most voters didnt really give it much weight. MATTHEWS: Right, he liked Hitler, big deal. On Saturday they released the videotape of Arnold being initiated into that Nazi group, wearing that Hitler-like uniform ODONNELL: You know Chris, Im a little embarrassed because I thought this story might have some legs FINEMAN: One day story. Voters didnt care. MATTHEWS: OK, but Sunday Arnold inexplicably robbed a 7-11 convenience store at gun point, and the numbers took a hit, right Howard? FINEMAN: No doubt about it. Through two news cycles, Arnolds numbers were in free-fall. With the voters seeing that video of Arnold hitting the store clerk with the butt of his gun, he was in real trouble. MATTHEWS: As political strategy, did the convenience store robbery work? Peggy Noonan NOONAN: Short term no, long term, almost assuredly yes. I think what it showed was, hey, Arnold is a ballsy guy. I mean, can anyone at this table honestly envision Gray Davis robbing a 7-11? (LAUGHTER) (CROSSTALK) MATTHEWS: Pat Cadell, what is the left saying? Do they want their governors to be able to knock off small businesses on a whim? CADELL: Well, I think the voters want a guy who has the ability to rob a 7-11, but doesnt necessarily do it two days before a statewide election. MATTHEWS: Pat Cadell showing that the left can always find something wrong with Republicans. Is that sour grapes Peggy? NOONAN: Chris, Im willing to concede that the Democrats want a governor who absolutely refuses to take such bold action like robbing a convenience store, and, I mean it was totally unexpected, golly, do you want a governor who runs his life by polling data? Clearly, California does not. MATTHEWS: Finally, on Monday, yesterday, some group, some say has direct ties to either James Carville or Sid Blumenthal, big-time Democrats for, sure, released a tape of Arnold sexually assaulting the Olsen twins at the Oscars in 1998. Howard, the tape was graphic, and contained nudity, and I have to say, watching that tape last night at home, well, let me just say that I woke Mrs. Matthews up when I went to bed. How did it play in California? FINEMAN: Yeah, the voters were saying, hey, weve had enough of this gotcha politics. Arnolds numbers actually went up after the Olsen twin tape was released, and we know the Olsen twins have signed to play themselves in a TV movie for Fox, so, it was a win-win. MATTHEWS: Lawrence, what about people who say that a videotape of a candidate brutally and sexually assaulting a pair of young, nubile, supple twins should disqualify him? ODONNELL: Maybe in the 90s, when Washington, and the country for that matter, was struggling under that cloud of immorality brought on by the Clintons, this would have been a deal breaker. But, there is a new rule under the leadership of George W. Bush, and that rule says things that happened in the past should stay in the past. MATTHEWS: Pat, what do you think of ignoring a candidate's past? CADELL: Well, the simple fact of the matter, and I wish the Democrats would accept this, is that there are no people out there that live decent, clean lives. MATTHEWS: Peggy, no clean livers out there? NOONAN: Since Ronald Reagan died, we do have very few absolutely clean and decent folks in public service. Luckily, those few people happen to make up the Republican leadership with the moral leader being George W. Bush. MATTHEWS: Once again, Peggy Noonan nails it. Absolutely nails it. Well come right back with more with our panel. What impact is this win going to have on the country? Come back and find out. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) http://www.berrysworld.blogspot.com/2003_09_28_berrysworld_archive.html#1065 22377870626432 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 02:21:43 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: budget shortfalls njc Hi, Catherine, dear! Yours is one of these post one really must write (& read) every little time so noone can forget what we're talking of when we're talking of low taxes. It's clear as water, indeed: you're longing for minimize taxes (and looking out for defraud your share = tax free = "black" money) if you're sending your junior to an expensive school: one must suppose that paying 750 bucks a month you're not going to pay outdoor activities! Note that, with so high expenses, we must comprehend this people's factual greed (I guess we're a bunch of joyful spendthrifts, here). In my country it's the same sad song, we're behind you like in so many ways, but in must states governed by the pp (nor the ppope nor the jose nor the puta pena: popular party) they're going to eliminate tax on sucession (heritage): can you believe it? Uffffff, don't let me get started! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Joan of Arc (encore), LC, at Zurich 2003 ps: I couldn't cut more of your prevoius message, so excuse me for the bandwith - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Catherine McKay" Para: "Marianne Rizzo" ; Enviado: sabado, 04 de octubre de 2003 2:06 Asunto: Re: budget shortfalls njc [..] > They promised us fewer taxes, but we are, in fact > paying more - it's simply a matter of whether you pay > them to the city as property tax, or to the province, > or even to the federal gov't as income tax. In other > cases, we were now asked to pay user fees for things > that we never had to pay for before. I have never paid > so much to cover little things like field trips for my > kids at school (these have doubled in cost, and it's > not a lot, but these things all add up), or a $50 lab > fee that I have to pay for my daughter's high school > photography course. > > Or, if I have to have a blood test done, I have to > fork over $5 now for something that was always > completely covered by our provincial health insurance > plan. (OF course, state-covered health insurance is > anathema to some people, but here we look upon it as a > friggin' right - LOL.) > > You might say, oh $5 here and there, or $14 for a > field trip that used to cost $6 - what's the deal with > that, ya cheapskate? Well, let me tellya - it all adds > up and what about people who are living on the fringe > as it is? Are they going to want to tell their kid's > school they don't have the money for a field trip? > Likely not - how embarassing for your kid that doesn't > want to stand out as the freak of the class - the > "poor" kid! > > The gov't in power was still trying the "tax cuts" > thing for this election, but they cut so much in > service here that our classroom sizes have increased, > the waiting times for surgery and certain diagnostic > tests have increased dramatically (and I'm not talking > about the delays incurred by SARS, which closed down a > number of hospitals to any elective surgery for about > six weeks, so imagine the impact of this on > already-long wait times.) > > Well, they got seriously defeated yesterday and hurray > for that - to me, it's a message from the people here > that we don't buy into that anymore - you can only > fool us with that so many times. The provincial > Liberals that won by a landslide yesterday got there > without any mudslinging or name-calling, and by > promising to put the money back in education and > health care, and, oh yeah, clean air and water. (Now > we get to see if they live up to their promises or not > - they're politicians, after all.) > > So, people can talk all they want about tax cuts, but > these so-called tax cuts benefit only a very few. The > rest of us pay one way or another, through paying > taxes at another level, or through user fees, or > through decreased services in schools and hospitals or > what-have-you. > > And I wouldn't give a lot of credence to budget talk > either. The people in power, and their opposition, can > make those numbers say whatever they want and whatever > is useful to them at the time. Yesterday's deficit > becomes today's surplus and tomorrow's deficit back > again. Every time you look at a gov't budget sheet, > you should be asking questions about what exactly it > means, because they will make it say whatever makes > their side look good, and the other side look bad. > > And that's it for me on this political rant. (Whew!) I > don't usually like getting into this stuff but there's > always three sides to every story - your story, my > story and the objective truth, whatever that is. > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- > We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 03:13:43 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: thanks to LAMA Hi, Lama! I too must say: Many many thanks! Every time I read the story about making Lakota... well, I understand her waiting to get out of that studio sessions! ;-) btw: I really love the thread about this song, the moon and the indians! Ride, Crazy Horse, ride! Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: First we take Manhattan, LC at Zurich, 1993 - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Janine Sherman" Para: ; Enviado: sabado, 04 de octubre de 2003 21:37 Asunto: thanks to LAMA > Lama, > Thanks so much for posting the Geffen Set liner notes and promoting its > purchase. I love reading them. I think between reading Shadows and Light and > Joni Companion I recall some of them, no matter, I still love hearing them > again. > > NP:Destiny Rules- Fleetwood Mac > Say You Will album ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 22:11:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: budget shortfalls njc --- Emiliano wrote: > Hi, Catherine, dear! > Yours is one of these post one really must write (& > read) every little time > so noone can forget what we're talking of when we're > talking of low taxes. > It's clear as water, indeed: you're longing for > minimize taxes (and looking > out for defraud your share = tax free = "black" > money) if you're sending > your junior to an expensive school: one must suppose > that paying 750 bucks a > month you're not going to pay outdoor activities! Ahh, jeez. Just when I decide I want to lurk for a while... Our schools are publicly funded, so you really shouldn't have to pay for anything. OK, I don't mind paying for certain things - it's pretty much a given that you'll need to pay for field trips (these are generally paid for part by the school and part by the parents - but the parent's portion has at least doubled since last year.) And then there are the irritating fund-raisers everyone does to make extra money for sports teams, or band, or the extras - they want you to sell chocolates or magazine subscriptions, which the parents usually end up paying for anyway. Either that, or they bring them to work and flog them to their co-workers, many of whom also have kids in school and are trying to do the same thing. It all becomes very irritating after a while. There are private schools, but I could never afford these, and I also believe that public education is an important part of a good and decent society - IMO, everyone has the right to a good education regardless of income. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 01:03:42 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: joni's byt on SNL sketch Had to watch SNL tonight, new season, John Mayer musical guest, etc. Then, as a bonus, in the final sketch about telemarketers making their last calls ever, Jack Black and the "marketeers" break into BYT. Good show, Jack Black has Belushi like chemistry. Mayer played two songs. btw, wonder if Joni was ever approached about being a musical guest. they sure have had every other music icon appear. Suze, n.w. Jerry Springer, because I can't reach the remote! ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 02:19:23 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: October 5 On October 5 the following articles were published: 1998: "Taming the Tiger" - People (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=241 2002: "This is Yorkville's last stand" - Toronto Star (Mention) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=934 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #502 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)