From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #484 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, September 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 484 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Geffen Demos, out of the bag..... ["mike pritchard" ] Happy B-day JvT! NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Pretenders DVD - Loose In LA [Bob Shemkovitz ] Re: "Complete Geffen Recordings", Due Tuesday! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: "Complete Geffen Recordings", Due Tuesday! ["Richard Flynn" ] Re: Boxed in [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Elvis news flash NJC [frasere@intergate.ca] re: complete geffen recordings sound [w evans ] september 24 encore!!!! NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Elvis news flash NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fw: september 24 encore!!!! NJC (for AOL members) [Emiliano ] yet another joni mention on the tube... [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] another Joni mention on the tube... [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] Re: new releases - njc ["ron" ] RE: Sept. 24th! [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Sept. 24th! njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: complete geffen recordings sound ["David Rahall" ] Fwd: New Gorka CD -- Old Futures Gone njc [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: It's a Muller! -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: It's a Muller! -- NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] HBJVT NJC ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: The Inner Circle-Membership has its privileges -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol] Re: The Inner Circle-Membership has its privileges -- NJC [Michael Paz ] The Importance of "Speechless", an essay ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:17:12 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: Geffen Demos, out of the bag..... Christopher T said... >>Overall, it's an elegantly presented little box.<< Oh-oh, I hope we're not heading for 'awesome packaging' country again. Then he went on to say... >>But all it's really succeeded in doing is making me jones for a REAL box with shitloads of outtakes and demos. Hejira/DJRD/Mingus demos....we know they're out there. Now THAT would be something.<< Mingus demos!! Tell me more, tell me more, with John McLaughlin etc?? mike in barcelona (where it's a holiday, the day of the patron saint, Mercedes) PS 'Jones' as an adjective, what's all that about? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:32:04 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: "Complete Geffen Recordings", Due Tuesday! now njc >>Feck no! Fact checkers? A frill! Who needs facts when you have factoids?<< And when the world if full of pedantic amateurs picking up on the tiniest incorrect details. We ("pedantic amateurs, I am one") rely on the unchecked factoid, the mischecked rumour, the uncontextualised quotes, the alcohol inspired revelation. What would we do if we didn't have all this material to allow us to complain (point out) to the publishers or the authors themselves about the fact that Joni played a Bechstein Grand and not a Budweiser Grand in that famous concert in Sioux City, which is in fact in Iowa and not Idaho as it says on page 113, and it wasn't Guerin on drums, but don alias...etc? Answer - Get a life mike in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:51:27 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] september 24!!! njc In a message dated 9/24/03 1:21:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > JOHN VAN TIEL!!!!!! > > (oh but behold how the BDF pinches five of the little old lady's peyote > cookies!) > (vengeful creature!) > > Wally, u r too too much! LMAO what have u been smokin'? HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MY DUTCH UNCLE JOHN [Unable to display image] WITH MUCH AFFECTION, ROSIE [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type image/x-art which had a name of Untitled01] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:01:01 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: september 24!!! njc (for AOL members) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: ; ; "Northeastjonifest@Yahoogroups. Com" Enviado: miircoles, 24 de septiembre de 2003 7:20 Asunto: september 24!!! njc > the little old lady had chirped a cheery "hello, pumpkin!" (or words to that > effect in dutch). > > the BDF, used to millennia upon millennia of mortals procumbent at the sight > of its SPLENDOR and DIVINITY, had been rather disappointed at such a display > of insolent insouciance. the BDF had shrieked and flapped its wings > furiously and expectorated a few nasty-looking fur-balls (mixed with lettuce > leaves and two or three bruschetti from the previous night's snake oil > binge) but to no avail. the little old lady had tilted her blue-rinsed head > and sweetly looked at the apparition before her quite as mary poppins would > at a darling chimney sweeper. > > the BDF had exhibited its 12-inch fingernails, shape-shifted into imelda > marcos, sung the entire turandot score in german, grown its terrifying > multiple breasts, impersonated cher, lectured on lacanian psychoanalytical > theory, recited passages from moby dick, ran its talons on screechy surfaces > and shape-shifted into imelda marcos again. the little old lady had daintily > yawned and offered IT a bonbon. > > the BDF was now at a loss! who was the formidable rival, this demon of > demons, this petite brunnhilde that was not only able but also AMUSED to > look HORROR and COSMIC ABNORMALITY straight in the face while humming a > quaint (and maddeningly waltzy) folksong? > > had the time come for the MIGHTY SHRIEKING ONE to abdicate, to surrender, to > discontinue its subscription to harper's bizarre and to donate its gossamer > wings to a fundraising project for the crochet-knitting challenged? > > furthermore, the little old lady seemed to be getting BORED! > > then it dawns on IT. (fate is kind, mes enfants! even to CRUEL and DEPRAVE D > things like the ONE WHO SHRIEKS AND MUST NOT BE NAMED!) > > "OH BOY... THIS IS AMSTERDAM!", groans the one whose tea parties even > gargoyles find in poor taste. slapping three of its foreheads, the BDF > realizes that the little old lady must have next door neighbors that would > make the BDF look like a snowdrop blossom in comparison. > > sighing, the BDF takes the bonbon and buys a postcard from the little old > lady. > > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > JOHN VAN TIEL!!!!!! > > (oh but behold how the BDF pinches five of the little old lady's peyote > cookies!) > (vengeful creature!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:07:40 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Rufus On 9/23/03 5:15 PM, "SMC1254@aol.com" wrote: > > I also picked up Rufus Wainwright's Want. I think he is a remarkable artist. > I give him another A. Excellent new one. I have been enjoying it. He has grown incredibly in the past few years. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:25:49 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Happy B-day JvT! NJC > I > guess quite a few JMDL parents must have enjoying the Xmas > Eve midnight > mass/service version of Silent Night Including YOURS, dude! :~) Hope your day is musically wonderful. Thanks for all the cool stuff you've spread around the globe. van Tiel trivia: Did y'all know that John was KNIGHTED last year for his year's of military service? Now, if only he could scam a driver's license! :~) Bob NP: Neil Young, "Scattered (Let's Think About Livin')" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:38:24 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Pretenders DVD - Loose In LA Folks, I just saw the best concert video I have ever seen and I just have to tell EVERYBODY about it. It's called Pretenders Loose In LA, from a concert at the Wiltern Theatre this past February. It came out on DVD yesterday in the US, and earlier this month in the UK I believe. If the Pretenders are not the best rock and roll band on the planet right now, I would like to know who is. What a great video. The band is at the top of their game. Chrissie is an absolute riot. Irreverent, exhilirating, total fun. It is a solid two-hour show that I watched all the way through last night and will do again tonight and probably many more times in the coming weeks and months. Is it strange that I should love both Joni & Chrissie equally, even though they are such disparate artists? Their performance personalities are so different, but they are both unequalled when it's time to deliver the goods: great singing, great musicianship, and unique, original, intelligent, fantastic songwriting. If you ever liked the Pretenders, you need to get this DVD. It is the best fucking thing they have ever done! (Sorry, but it just wouldn't be right to post about Chrissie without dropping at least one f-bomb!) Peace to all, Bob S ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:54:48 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Complete Geffen Recordings", Due Tuesday! In a message dated 9/23/2003 4:07:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rflynn@frontiernet.net writes: > The big problem with _Mingus_ is that it pales compared to actual > Mingus in his prime. Well, Mingus is so unique in its scope that I don't think it's fair to compare it to something like Mingus in his prime. I mean, you take a composer from the pop/rock arena, and have her create and give breath to lyrics that complement the complicated melodies of somebody like Charles, how do you compare it to anything that's come before it or since? If anything, you could compare it to Annie Ross' putting lyrics to Wardell Gray's "Twisted" but other than that it's sorta apples & oranges I would say. > And I find the lyrics to "Goodbye > Pork Pie Hat" kind > of embarrassing, to tell you the truth. Really? I've never felt that way, and I'd love to hear you expound on that statement especially given your professional background and insight. GPPH is not an easy melody to match words to, at least it doesn't seem like it is, Joni creates the illusion of making it look easy. I think the fact that she not only matches the cadence of the song syllable-wise, she also tells part of the Lester Young story as well as a bit of her own history and the way that he inspired generations of musicians. I think it succeeds on a number of levels. To me, the OTHER GPPH lyrics are embarrassing. Rahsaan Roland Kirk wrote a set that pales next to Joni's. Bob NP: Neil Young, "I'm The Ocean" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:01:30 -0400 From: "Richard Flynn" Subject: RE: "Complete Geffen Recordings", Due Tuesday! You know, Bob. I think I need to listen to _Mingus_ again, as I'm speaking from a remembered reaction that I may want to revisit before I get myself any more out on a limb. Today, however, is one of those days where I teach till 8 at night, and since I only have _Mingus_ on vinyl, it'll have to wait till tomorrow when I can fire up the big stereo. Best, Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [mailto:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 8:55 AM > To: rflynn@frontiernet.net; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: "Complete Geffen Recordings", Due Tuesday! > > > In a message dated 9/23/2003 4:07:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > rflynn@frontiernet.net writes: > > > The big problem with _Mingus_ is that it pales compared to actual > > Mingus in his prime. > > Well, Mingus is so unique in its scope that I don't think it's fair > to compare it to something like Mingus in his prime. I mean, you > take a composer from the pop/rock arena, and have her create and > give breath to lyrics that complement the complicated melodies of > somebody like Charles, how do you compare it to anything that's > come before it or since? If anything, you could compare it to > Annie Ross' putting lyrics to Wardell Gray's "Twisted" but other > than that it's sorta apples & oranges I would say. > > > And I find the lyrics to "Goodbye > > Pork Pie Hat" kind > > of embarrassing, to tell you the truth. > > Really? I've never felt that way, and I'd love to hear you expound > on that statement especially given your professional background and > insight. GPPH is not an easy melody to match words to, at least it > doesn't seem like it is, Joni creates the illusion of making it > look easy. I think the fact that she not only matches the cadence of > the song syllable-wise, she also tells part of the Lester Young story > as well as a bit of her own history and the way that he inspired > generations of musicians. I think it succeeds on a number of levels. > > To me, the OTHER GPPH lyrics are embarrassing. Rahsaan Roland Kirk > wrote a set that pales next to Joni's. > > Bob > > NP: Neil Young, "I'm The Ocean" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:30 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Complete Geffen Recordings", Due Tuesday! > I think I need to listen to _Mingus_ again, as I'm speaking > from a remembered reaction that I may want to revisit > before I get myself > any more out on a limb. Extension granted! ;~) Please don't feel like I'm trying to set you up, it's certainly not my intention...you write with intelligence & passion so I'm selfishly asking for more, that's all. Enjoy Mingus, as I still contend it features Joni's finest singing to date (and I don't think she'll top it at this juncture). Bob NP: Neil, "Downtown" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:16:28 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Boxed in > Those that I > have in one form or another > Ballerina Valerie > Blue on Blue > Born to Take the Highway > Brandy Eyes > Carnival in Kenora > Come to The Sunshine > Dr. Junk > Eastern Rain > Go Tell the Drummer Man > Hunter (The Good Samaritan) > Just like Me > London Bridge > Mr. Blue > My Favorite Color (Love) ????:(Hers ? Correct Title) > Play Little David, Play > The Gift of the Magi > The Way it Is > Winter lady > Yarrow Of these, only Yarrow (The Dowie Dens O'Yarrow) is not her composition. It's a traditional Celtic folk song...I'd love to hear from someone who knows more about the song. "Favorite Colour" is the way the song is listed in the information provided by the CBC archives. > Could you list a few of the > others when you have a chance? Well, let's see...besides the ones you list: Day After Day - the one that's in circulation is the studio recording she did, not a live version. This was her first recording I believe. A Melody In Your Name - a live version of this song, where she goes through some hellatious tuning (breaking a string in the process) after she discovers she has to go too low vocally and refers to the song as "a little beast". The recording cuts off so we don't hear it to its completion but it's almost all there. The Wizard Of Is - Live recording from the 1967 Couriers Folk Club appearance. She had to have written this one after she heard Cohen's "Suzanne" as they are almost identical melodically. Like I say, this genre (Joni's unreleased early material) is utterly fascinating to me, and it speaks volumes about her that when she went to cut her first album she walked in with almost all new songs! The average artist would cull the best of the work they had done to that point and record them. But "average" is certainly not a word that applies to Joni Mitchell. Bob NP: Neil, "Words (Between The Lines of Age)" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:28:09 -0500 From: Steve Polifka Subject: Re: Boxed in Oh Bob! I would 'love' to have one of these CD's -with all her unrecorded work on it. I think it's a must do project. Listen to me, I know. Steve, your new projects advisor ;-) At 10:16 AM 9/24/2003 -0400, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >> Those that I >> have in one form or another > >> Ballerina Valerie >> Blue on Blue >> Born to Take the Highway >> Brandy Eyes >> Carnival in Kenora >> Come to The Sunshine >> Dr. Junk >> Eastern Rain >> Go Tell the Drummer Man >> Hunter (The Good Samaritan) >> Just like Me >> London Bridge >> Mr. Blue >> My Favorite Color (Love) ????:(Hers ? Correct Title) >> Play Little David, Play >> The Gift of the Magi >> The Way it Is >> Winter lady >> Yarrow > >Of these, only Yarrow (The Dowie Dens O'Yarrow) is not her composition. >It's a traditional Celtic folk song...I'd love to hear from someone >who knows more about the song. "Favorite Colour" is the way the song >is listed in the information provided by the CBC archives. > >> Could you list a few of the >> others when you have a chance? > >Well, let's see...besides the ones you list: > >Day After Day - the one that's in circulation is the studio >recording she did, not a live version. This was her first >recording I believe. > >A Melody In Your Name - a live version of this song, where she goes >through some hellatious tuning (breaking a string in the process) >after she discovers she has to go >too low vocally and refers to the song as "a little beast". The >recording cuts off so we don't hear it to its completion but it's >almost all there. > >The Wizard Of Is - Live recording from the 1967 Couriers Folk Club >appearance. She had to have written this one after she heard Cohen's >"Suzanne" as they are almost identical melodically. > >Like I say, this genre (Joni's unreleased early material) is >utterly fascinating to me, and it speaks volumes about her that >when she went to cut her first album she walked in with almost >all new songs! The average artist would cull the best of the work >they had done to that point and record them. But "average" is >certainly not a word that applies to Joni Mitchell. > >Bob > >NP: Neil, "Words (Between The Lines of Age)" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:57:14 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Boxed in > I think it's a must do project. I actually did put something along these lines together earlier this year...before the "Let's Sing Out" stuff showed up. A 2-cd set called "Joni - Off The Record" that was sort of a special request from someone. So it wouldn't take much to rework it and include the Let's Sing Out stuff as well. That way you don't need to get 10-12 cd's just to get the unreleased stuff. Besides the early unreleased Joni, it captures some of the recordings she did of other's material like Yarrow & Mr. Tambourine Man, and the duets of other's material that she did with Johnny Cash, Fred Neill, etc. Bob NP: Neil, "Helpless" from Unplugged ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:59:19 -0700 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Elvis news flash NJC Hi all, Elvis costello was just live on a CNN segment- way cool! Tomorrow night (Thurs) he is doing a 2 hour live by request on A&E. He will be with Steve Naive, long time pianist, and the Imposters will be there as well. Check your local listings, should be excellent. Best Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:21:01 -0400 (EDT) From: w evans Subject: re: complete geffen recordings sound > I wondered with the "no need to remaster" remarks, "who needs this box?" But > there is that 88 page booklet with candid Joni commentary . . . I forget who said this, but...hold on here, when they said that they had needed to do "hardly any remastering" what they're talking about is that they didn't need to do anything heavy-handed like sometimes is needed for very old masters, because these master tapes were in such good condition--- that doesn't mean that the new discs themselves aren't the product of some of the newest mastering techniques, they used a 96khz/24-bit process that's been used on most discs of the past five years or so (although what sony/columbia is doing now with direct stream digital, as found on the new bobs and last year's stones, is the best i've heard yet but Geffen apparently doesn't have access to that) The end result is that these new geffen discs, when I compared them yesterday with my old CDs, manufactured in the last 80s or early 90s, sound incredibly better, it's no contest. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:31:58 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: september 24 encore!!!! NJC let's give the poor beast a rest (I mean the BDF not the birthday boy!) and merely mortally but no less magnificently salute YET ANOTHER LIBRA on the jmdl: H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y BRYAN, john kelly fan and armpit shaver extraordinaire!!!! christmas eve must be such a festive occasion in north america.... love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:03:36 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Elvis news flash NJC > Tomorrow night (Thurs) he is doing a 2 hour live by > request on A&E. Dang! Now THAT'S "Must See TV"! Thanks for the heads-up. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:55:34 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Fw: september 24 encore!!!! NJC (for AOL members) - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Wally Kairuz" Para: ; Enviado: miircoles, 24 de septiembre de 2003 18:31 Asunto: september 24 encore!!!! NJC > let's give the poor beast a rest (I mean the BDF not the birthday boy!) and > merely mortally but no less magnificently salute YET ANOTHER LIBRA on the > jmdl: > > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > BRYAN, john kelly fan and armpit shaver extraordinaire!!!! > > christmas eve must be such a festive occasion in north america.... > > love, > wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:56:18 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: It's a Muller! -- NJC Congratulations Uncle Bob!! db >>> 9/23/2003 8:22:38 PM >>> My niece just gave birth -- ON MULLER'S BIRTHDAY! Oy, I am cursed! It's a boy, weighing 8+ pounds and mother and baby are fine, so I guess we really are blessed. Except for the Muller birthday business. Damn! If she could have only held out another 3 hours . . . --Bob This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:20:29 EDT From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: yet another joni mention on the tube... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:46:50 EDT From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: another Joni mention on the tube... Greeting purveyors of all things Joni ! I was watching " Nip/Tuck " , a new series on FX , last night when fate of fates I hear the name of our beloved Joni use rather humorously. The show is a drama, although it has its funny moments , about the lives and practices of two Plastic surgeons in cahoots in Miami. ( One played by the delightful actor Dylan Walsh.) Well the plot du jour involves a transgender male named Sophia who has come to the doctors for reassignment surgery. He has an instant rapport with the lesbian anesthesiologist, played to the hilt by Roma Maffia, and invites her over so he can make her into a " lipstick lesbian." She shows up and as Sophia is transforming her he asks, " Have you always been a lesbian ? " Roma's character, Luisa, replies, " Well I slept with a man in college once who had long blonde hair, but when he brushed it across my face I closed my eyes and pretended he was Joni Mitchell." It really made my evening, I got such a cackle out of it. Later... Jonily Yours, Warren Keith p.s. ... by the way i caught the A&E bio on Cass Elliot the other night , brillantly done. Of course the Joni portions made it all the more enjoyable ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:38:27 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: new releases - njc hi first off - happy birtday bob to & everyone else >>>bob wrote about rory block >>>And it looks like SHE'S got a new one out today too? A cd called "Last Fair Deal"? ok - so whats it with september - non stop birthdays, non stop new releases!! aparently even the "other" joan has got a new release?? - "dark chords on a big guitar" ron np - john michael talbot - hymn to the praises of god ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:53:30 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: RE: Sept. 24th! David and I wish you the "Happiest of Birthdays" you have ever had! I'm not sorry I hogged down all of that delicious cheese you had but I couldn't sop at one bite, imagine what would have happened if you had the chocolate too. Have a Great Day! Mingu&Rolls ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:57:39 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Sept. 24th! njc testing ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:52:36 -0400 From: "David Rahall" Subject: Re: complete geffen recordings sound Incredibly better? The temptation builds! I'm always a sucker for better sound. It costs me a fortune. David (R- Under 17 not admitted without a parent or guardian) listening to "Say You Will" Fleetwood Mac - ----- Original Message ----- From: "w evans" these new geffen discs, when I compared them > yesterday with my old CDs, manufactured in the last 80s or early 90s, > sound incredibly better, it's no contest. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:03:45 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: The Inner Circle-Membership has its privileges Good things come to those who wait. I just got the box set in the mail (thanks to the *INNER* inner circle) and what a beautiful package it is. I am trying to listen to the new songs as we speak and watch the Dave Matthews Concert on AOL starting soon. Rumors have it that Simon and Garfunkel will be opening the show. Report later. Love Paz (yeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwww!) I am so blessed and lucky! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:45:49 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: new releases - njc From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com >Watch it roomie, you're starting to sound like ME! ;~) Listen to us, sinking our teeth in the hand of something we can't give up just yet...> Good one! Been there- done that! I gotta tell ya though, campers. I'm gonna cave and buy the Geffen box. I can sell off the old discs if I want. Lord knows I wouldn't give a civilian DED as a representative sample of Joni's best! I love it for the bold and relatively successful experiment and all but it's not like giving away a copy of BLUE or x, fill in the blank. I was never devoted to another artist like this. I still don't have all of the Beatles studio releases for example. But I just can't pass this up, especially since someone said one of the 3 unreleased tracks is the dipthong version of what became "Two Grey Rooms". I take that to mean that it MAY BE a piano-only track. As a joni-piano devotee I have to be the first on my block to find out. I'm not waiting to find out from someone else! Since I've bought and sold a BUNCH of camera lenses on ebay, I'm fearless of spending money on collectibles. For better or worse, I've lost my fear. What's the downside? I'm gonna eat $10 when I sell it on ebay? Lama NP: "For the Roses", the song from my latest promo copy of the LP, FOR THE ROSES. I guess I have the fever and as compulsions go, it's relatively harmless and it feckin' feels GOOD. Why doesn't Reprise dust off the masters of the first Carnegie Hall show and do it up right? Who would like to hear it in its full fidelity and see unreleased Bernstein photos of the evening? Naw, I guess I'm the only one. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:26:53 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Fwd: New Gorka CD -- Old Futures Gone njc I thought some of you John Gorka fans might be interested in this... Return-Path: Received: from rly-st01.mail.aol.com (rly-st01.mail.aol.com [172.20.75.161]) by air-xl03.mail.aol.com (v96.6) with ESMTP id MAILINXL31-4f6c3f71ed212dd; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:14:41 2000 Received: from rly-xn01.mx.aol.com (rly-xn01.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.134]) by rly-st01.mail.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA14914 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:08:06 -0400 (EDT) From: john@johngorka.com Received: from arcus.bravenet.com (arcus.bravenet.com [65.39.176.24]) by rly-xn01.mx.aol.com (v96.8) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXN110-62c3f71eb89d6; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:07:55 -0400 Received: from bravenet.com (celeborn.vc.bravenet.com [172.16.0.23]) by arcus.bravenet.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A13D7195814 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:28:50 -0700 (PDT) To: "rosie" Received: from [12.82.67.44] by bravenet.com with HTTP Subject: New Gorka CD -- Old Futures Gone Sender: john@johngorka.com X-ListID: 10530 X-Groupnum: 42 X-IPAddy: 12.82.67.44 X-Usernum: 3533233653 X-Replyto: john@johngorka.com Message-Id: <20030923212850.A13D7195814@arcus.bravenet.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:28:50 -0700 (PDT) X-AOL-IP: 172.20.75.161 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --This is the message header-- Dear Gorka E-mail list Person, I am writing to announce the release of my new CD "Old Futures Gone" on Red House Records. It is now available online at www.redhouserecords.com or by phone at 1-800-695-4687. Tell them John sent you. It's also available at finer online music sites and retail outlets all over. Autographed copies will be available from my website www.johngorka.com in a few days after Webmaster Cris Mitchell updates the site. I will be out and about doing shows this Fall all over the U.S.. For a nearly complete list of shows please visit www.johngorka.com and click on Tour Dates. There are a few dates that are not yet listed there so I will mention them here: 10/02/03 Cafe Lena, Saratoga Springs, NY -- info @ 518-583-0022 or sarah@cafelena.com 10/16/03 The Pinnacle Center, Hudsonville, MI (with Claudia Schmidt) info @ 616-662-3330 11/01/03 Cedar Cultural Center, Minneapolis, MN -- info @ 612-338-2674 Thank you to all the people wrote after the last e-mail message. My back is doing much better, thanks. I had a genuine acoustic concert last week in Baltimore thanks to Hurricane Isabel. Since the power was out, lighting was provided by candles and flashlights and the sound was provided by me. There were no injuries. In the spirit of keeping the spam to a minimum, this is second e-mail message of 2003. All the best, John G. - --This is the message footer-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:58:35 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: It's a Muller! -- NJC Donna writes: << Congratulations Uncle Bob!! >> Thanks, Donna! But I have a correction. It's not a Muller, it's a MULLET! I saw the baby today and he was born with a blond mullet! << http://www.mulletjoe.com/emailfriends.asp >> Which will really look cool with his 14-month-old brother's curly red natural Mohawk! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:03:48 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: It's a Muller! -- NJC In a message dated 9/24/2003 8:59:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: It's not a Muller, it's a MULLET! I The ultimate website for mullets: http://www.mulletsgalore.com/ (look at 'classifications') Bob, who probably lives in the ultimate state for mullets NP: Green Day, "86" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:25:48 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: HBJVT NJC Happy Happy Jon Van Tiel!!! Hope it's Absolutely Fabulous! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:19:04 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: The Inner Circle-Membership has its privileges -- NJC Paz writes: << what a beautiful package it is. >> Thanks, Michael. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:07:20 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: The Inner Circle-Membership has its privileges -- NJC You are welcome. OH MY GAWD!!! Dave Matthews Band Rocks. Did anyone tune in? Is that why my feed has been glitchin'? Oh man Warren Haynes sittin in for Cortez The Killer and Two Step. Oh shit the encore is comin up... Later Paz NP-Grey Street-Dave and Band LIVE!!!! > Paz writes: > > << what a beautiful package it is. >> > > Thanks, Michael. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:06:57 +0000 From: "Timothy Spong" Subject: Re: Geffen Demos, out of the bag -- Judy Collins recorded what? On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, "Christopher Treacy" wrote, on Subject: Geffen Demos, out of the bag..... (in part): > >Well, in a nutshell... > >It's "Two Grey Rooms" the dipthong mix, >and "Baby Blue" is almost exactly the same chord progression as NRH's title >track, but still pretty cool. One can easily see that there's absolutely no >way both tracks could've been included on the same release (they're almost >identical...it's amazing the way she 'joni-izes' it compared to, let's say, >Judy Collins' beautiful early 90's version...). > My questions: 1) What is meant by "the dip[h]thong mix"? 2) Judy Collins' beautiful early-'90s version is of what? "Two Grey Rooms" or "Baby Blue"? Either way, it would be an addition to the four JC covers of JM songs (some in multiple versions) listed on the JMDL "Undercover" section and discussed on this list-service before: "Both Sides[,] Now," "Chelsea Morning," "Michael from Mountains" and "For Free." Inquiring minds want to know! Tim Spong Dover, Del., U.S.A. _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:27:05 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Speechless" is on the Geffen Box!! More soon. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:27:38 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Trying to send JoniFest photos Has anyone experienced trouble sending photos to the "Hatstand" album? I've been trying to send over photos from JoniFest in every format I can (jpg, gif, png) and I continue to get the message that it's an unaccepted format. Could it be 'cause I'm sending from a Mac? Any suggestions? Kenny B (who could not find the new Rufus Wainwright album in three stores today but who did buy the final Warren Zevon album for 20% off at Borders) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:36:21 -0700 From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: I'm comin' back for more JC Gang, After a few months off the list and having gone through some big life changes, I re-emerge living in Honolulu (ta-ta to San Francisco!) and selling pianos! I'm very excited about the Geffen collection and have ordered my copy already! I did get to experience a 'Night Ride Home' this last 4th of July....Driving around the Big Island (didn't Joni write that in Hawaii?....or it was a reference to a 4th she and Klein spent here?) and revving alongside some wild horses running the road....fireworks, hula girls and some idle cat tractors in the sound.....Will she EVER stop narrating the events of my life; past, present and sometimes future? I hope not. So, I guess I need to be catching up on some stuff........any word on the tribute album? Remember that? Aloha, Russ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail Extra Storage! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:47:43 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The Importance of "Speechless", an essay - ------------------------ Forward to Catherine McKay: - ------------------------ You wanted a reason to buy 'THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS'. The reason is a track known to collectors as "Speechless". Start stashing away those "copper, proud-headed Queen Lizzies". (According to the "Electricity thread", complied by Lori Frye, you are familiar with that phrase!) - ----------------------- The story of "Speechless" begins when Joni was a kid. In a BBC Radio 1 broadcast on 29 May, 1983, Joni related her earliest recollection of music to Andy Peebles. ******************************** ******************************** AP: What age were you when you really realized that music was something that was going to be very special? Do you remember exactly how old you were when you decided that perhaps music might be important? JM: Well, um, I can remember -- I have a very early memory of being walked on a leash. You know, they used to put children on those leashes -- I don't know if they still do -- AP: That's right. Toddlers' reigns. JM: -- and I had on a little white kind of snow suit and we passed a Woolworth's and Woolworth's had a wedge-shaped opening to it, and in the roof of the exterior of the building was kind of a speaker, a tin speaker, and there was some kind of music, I don't know what it would be, spilling out there. And I stopped on my leash and began to bounce up and down and sing with great enthusiasm. My mother gave me a good tug, you know, and I remember thinking that was very insensitive of her (laughs). So, you know, at an early age, you know, music was a great pocket to be in. AP: Well, let's open the pockets and have a look at what you've got for us with 12 records that you've chosen. And we start with Edith Piaf, I think I'm correct in saying. JM: This song I heard at a birthday party. It was a French girl who lived on the outskirts of our town had thrown this party. Her mother was not well and there was no evidence of a husband. She had a mouth that kind of went off to one side, and there was pink showing around underneath her eyes and she cooked up a delicious birthday cake from a cake mix with pink frosting on it. And we were all seated at this table when suddenly on the radio came Edith Piaf and Les Campignons des Chansons singing this song, and I remember, like, as her voice entered into the male choir, I had goosebumps, you know. I think I probably dropped my cake fork. AP: How old were you? Do you remember? JM: Well, I'd be about six or seven. (Plays "Les Trois Cloches.") AP: The voice of Edith Piaf and "Les Trois Cloches." My French pronunciation is as appalling as ever. Joni, it goes without saying that I suppose France and the language of France has a lot to do with Canada. Are people over there staunchly bilingual these days? JM: Well, in the area that I was raised in, there wasn't a large French population, but it was big enough to afford at least one French radio station. But I never heard the language spoken. We would just see it on the cornflakes boxes at the breakfast table, you know. AP: But you had no real interest in picking up French and learning it in those days? JM: The English were very stubborn, you know, about keeping theirs and the French -- AP: So was it a diversity of opinion as far as its validity was concerned? JM: Yes. AP: We're now going to play a track which you very kindly brought with you. There are all sorts of packages musically coming up in this hour of My Top 12 with Joni Mitchell here with me on a Sunday afternoon, and we don't often play material by the artist who sat opposite me, but we're going to now. Tell me a little about this. JM: Well, I'll just play a snippet of this just mainly to illustrate how long sometimes it takes for influences to seep in. Last summer, I saw a clip of Piaf. I'm a big fan of hers. And it included a performance of this song. And shortly afterwards I wrote a song just sitting down to the keyboards that didn't have a melody, and we went in and cut the track even though the melody hadn't been born. That night I thought, well, I'll just put a rough melody down on it. I went in and I did two takes. The melody that you would hear on this tape is the second take. There's nothing that exists on record of this particular part of the development of a song and that is the discovery of your melody. This is the birth of the melody and it has no words. And it's full of French diphthong. It's full of (sounds out) "long-long", you know like (phonetic) "dawn-say." There's no English words to go to these syllables, so I don't know how I'm going to sit -- set language to it. So I just call it "Speechless." I'll just give you a little sneak preview of it. (Lindsay's transcription says [Plays "Speechless"] but they only played only about 30 seconds.) AP: Presuming that you solve the difficult problem of deciding what to do with that lyrically, will we find that on your next album for Geffen Records? JM: Either on the next one or the next one after that. AP: You're giving yourself a bit of longevity there. It's an interesting situation, isn't it, as to what to do with it lyrically? I mean do you see that you'll have French lyrics to that in the end? JM: I really like the French diphthong, that sound, you know. It's so much a part of the melody in my mind that I, you know, I don't know what vowel you could put in there. So we'll see what happens with it. Maybe it will just come out that way. ******************************** ******************************** Lama: In April 1988, Geffen put out a disc called "A Special Conversation for Radio". (Capitol Radio, London, England Geffen PRO-CD-3076). Lindsay Moon transcribed it for the JMDL. It's permanently available at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=659 Joni and Larry were talking with David Jensen. We now join Joni, already in mid-story. ******************************** ******************************** JM: There was a track that we recorded one night, Vinnie Colaiuta and Mike Landau, and Larry and I. We'd been cutting something and we all felt like playing. They said, "Do you have anything else?" So I had a piano piece, no melody to it at this point, certainly then no lyrics. Just chord changes. So I said, "Oh, yeah, I've got this thing I've been noodling around with." JM: "Let's do it," they said. So we recorded it. JM: Now the boys that night were really into boy mode. I mean their humor and everything was -- it was one of those moments where I really felt like a cat among dogs, and for some inexplicable reason, I became quite emotional about it. I felt left out. I mean, they didn't -- it was just an odd experience. So I said to Henry -- and my heart was sort of heavy -- I said, "Henry, set up the track again. Let me throw on a vocal." And I bring this up only in that the emotional state of my heart, the spontaneous melody that I then sang onto the track, I could never get it back because I could never get back to that emotional spot. And it had a beauty to it, didn't it Larry? LK: Yeah. JM: It had a beautiful heart quality to it. We listened to it three years later in the studio, and I had been in intellectual mode, adjudicating and criticizing, "Nope, nope, we've got to do this ..." Producing, right? And I listened to it, and I thought, "Is that it?" It really sounded like nothing to me. Then I went home and kind of settled down and relaxed and put it back on again and the beauty opened up. So this is a piece of music that if your heart is open it will go in and it will be very, very nourishing. If it isn't, it won't communicate to you. DJ: Right. What is the tune? JM: Well, right now, it's called "Speechless" because it has no lyrics. DJ: It's not on vinyl or CD yet, right? ******************************** ******************************** Lama: In 1991, when the "COME IN FROM THE COLD" video came out (45 minutes), we got another piece of the "Speechless" story. It's about 19 minutes and 15 seconds into the video. Until Lindsay gets around to it, my transcription will have to suffice. ******************************** ******************************** JM: Seven years ago, while we were working on an album, uhm, we finished playing and the drummer, Vinnie Colaiuta, said to me, "Joni, do you have anything else we could play? I still feel like playing." "Oh," I said, "I've got these piano changes. Ya know? We could mess around with them." We looked over to the piano in the room and there was a big "X" of masking tape on it, and a sign sitting in the middle of it, like a spider, which said, "DO NOT TOUCH!". So I said to the engineer, who was very by-the-book, I said, "Henry (Lewy), ya know... Can we just do one take on the piano?" And Henry said, "Oh, I don't think so." And I said... Then I saw it was on the sign it was (for) Michelle Columbia, who I knew. I said, "Look, I'm gonna play real light. I'm not gonna put it out of tune. You'll never know we've been here." So finally, we convinced him we could PEEL the tape back. And we all sat down and I don't think I played it (all the way) through. Maybe we did once, and they charted it. I don't remember that. All I know is we did one take on the song. And nobody was really was familiar with it. And yet when it was completed, the thing had a loveliness to it. Now, I was just getting to know these guys, this band. And my husband was one of the players in it, and we hadn't even begun to date, I don't think, at that point. But their "play" was very, very male. It contained, like, a lot of humor, (so) that even if I'd wanted to, if I got in on it with them, I would have embarrassed them. So, unwittingly, they had created a situation in which I couldn't participate. Which made me kind of melancholy and I said to Henry, ya know, "Set me up in the vocal booth and I'll go in and throw on a vocal." So, I went in and there was an emotion in my throat. There was a kind of a sadness that... ya know that... I couldn't play with the boys. Ya know? Not really... And the fledgling melody came out in French syllabication. "Laun- daun". Like Edit Piaf. It had all of these French syllables and for seven years I tried to find (kind of) a libretto, or a story that would be suitable for it, and also I was attached to these vowels which aren't common in English. ******************************** ******************************** Lama: Those familiar with Karen O'Brien's book will remember the "Roy Rogers" story about Joni's frustration over not being able to play with the boys. Ms. O'Brien also discusses not playing the piano according to the "rules". While making "Speechless", Joni overcame both hurdles as an adult. When I heard her talk about the discovery of the melody, the draw of a forbidden piano, the concept of a piano song with scatting, I felt like "Speechless" was a true rarity. It's important because it shows so much about her patience and her love / hate relationship with the piano. I am sure you've all guessed the punchline by now. One of the bonus tracks is mislabeled on THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS. The track list says "Two Grey Rooms - demo". Bah! I learned from Simon that a "demo" has a specific meaning to historians, archivists, and students of music. A demo is a stripped down, early version of song with both the melody AND the words. "Two Grey Rooms" is a story about a voyeur. Track 12 of Disc One is not a demo of anything. "Speechless" is track 12. "Speechless" is complete. "Speechless" is Larry Klein on bass, Vinnie Colaiuta on Blade-like drums, Mike Landau holding down electric guitar, and Joni scatting French vowels. Most of all though, "Speechless" is a Joni piano track, laid bare in all its glory. Uncirculated until this week, it's available on THE COMPLETE GEFFEN RECORDINGS. All the best, Lama - -------------------------------- Credits: * BBC Radio 1 for the interview show "My Top 12", where the story of "Speechless" was fully fleshed out. * Dave Foers for making it available to our Archivist. * Simon for preserving it and inserting full length album tracks in place of the edited cuts used on the radio programme. This extended play version of the "My Top 12" programme popularized the song-writing process and spread interest in "Speechless". * "Joni Mitchell: Shadows and Light" a bio by Karen O'Brien * Capitol Radio, London, England for making "A Special Conversation for Radio" available to Geffen for stoking the... oh, hell you know! * Les Irvin for hosting the internet discussion list that brought together all of these people, and for hosting the article that Lindsay transcribed. * Most of all, to Lindsay Moon for transcribing the "My Top 12" interview and the "A Special Conversation for Radio" disc for JMDL. The full text is online at http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=619 - -------------------------------- PS, Fully twenty years ago Joni said, "There's nothing that exists on record of this particular part of the development of a song... and that is the discovery of your melody." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:15:19 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Just wondering... NJC When Cindy & Bryan's daughter Zoe was born, did they throw "a release party"? Just wondering... Lama ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #484 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)