From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #450 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, September 8 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 450 ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- France njc [tantra-apso ] more France -sort of njc [tantra-apso ] Andrea (njc) ["Sue Cameron" ] Re: njc shaking off futility [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #449 [LCStanley7@aol.com] RE: death (njc) ["Nikki Johnson" ] RE: death (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: njc shaking off futility [Emiliano ] Palestinians and Jews njc ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Depression, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: Depression, njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: death (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: death (njc) ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Those black 12 inch plastic things njc [PassScribe@aol.com] andrea njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: andrea njc [Susan Guzzi ] Joni content by 6 degrees of separation [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separationNJC [frasere@intergate.ca] Re: andrea njc, "me too" post ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] CSN, was Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedi] Re: Laura (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: Depression (njc) ["kakki" ] Today in History: September 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: September 8 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Andrea Njc ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Depression, njc ["kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 22:55:33 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: France njc France is a beautiful country and large. I ahd no idea it was so full of breathtaking scenery and history. We visted so many places with buildings 1000 years old. They have a fondness for building, even now, on precipices. Quite mad. Our first stop was Reims. Very enjoable, with a gran Cathedral. we saw quite a few of these. Architecurally they were alls tunning, especially when you consider their age. However, I found them oppressive. dark insidemainly, and I could not help but be aware of the torture, opression, murder, etc that occurred during the times htese monuments of evil were built. For 'houses of God', they have a dark, oppressive feel to them. From there we travelled onto Chambery, in the Alps, where we planned to spend a week. From Chambery it is easy to get to other places of interest. From our hotel in Chambery, we visted a Aix Le Bain and annecy. Famous for their gorgeous lakes. I swam in them. Annecy is my favourite place. Very old, we wandered around the old town, it was market day. Very hot, 105. I got prickly heat on my head for days. Ick! It was in Chambery that we had our hairy night. We had eaten in a very fancy restaurant, $200 for dinner! The food was the best. I did not feel comfortable with the service tho. Veyr grand, treated like Royalty. As they broguht each course, they stood there and described it, in french so it was meaningless anyway, whilst I just wanted them to piss off so i could eat! John, thru his job, eats like this all the time, and stays in 5 star hotels etc. I teased him by pretending I was going to tuck my serviette in my shirt collar! I always have my meat rare and John well coooked. When he relpied 'well done' to the waiter, the waiter said no!!!! John just accpeted that. I was astonished. I told him, from now, I am not cooking anythignng well done for him! Especially as he enjoyed his meal! As we left the restuarant, the air felt odd. It was if we were in a slow mo dream. I looked up and two large green wheely bins, (dumpsters) were flying thru the air at us. At the same time we realised it was bit windy! We managed to get to our car and the dorrs were enarly ripped off as we tried desprately to get in. The short attempted run to the car was hard-that wind was strong. Now, many French streets and roads are lined with trees. Not only does that keep them shaded, but looks very attractive too. Anyway,we pull off, by this time very aware this was a dangerous situation. As we drove, slowly, the trees on either side of us were coming down. The dark sky was illuminated frequently by lightening and the most horrendous noise from the wind. In hindsight, it is easy to think we should have gone back into the restaurant. My only thoguht was to get nack 'home', the hotel. I was in a great deal of pain, from the arthritis in my neck, which spread down my arms and acorss my chest and hwne we got to the hotel, I just collpapsed, unable to move, till the oain subsidied. It would seem stress makes the pain worse. Anywa, as we drove to the hotel, we had to dodge flying trees, branches, bins, glass, all sorts of things. Amazingly, I di it all well, neither us nor the car were damaged, except for scratches. Funyy, I never panic in such situations. I wait till afterwards! Then I fall apart.Upon arriving at our hotel, we found it all in darkenss, and the staff were assembled, telling people not to panic etc . We watched the rets of the storm from our room, hoping the roof was going to survive. It lasted till baout 11am the following day. Aix Le bain was badly affectd by the strom, much worse than Chambery. W bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:07:00 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: more France -sort of njc We had decide before we left for France, that we would take in Italy too. BIG MISTAKE! First off the temp was 110. The trip to Torino(Turin) was thru the Alps. Okay, i said, but hey have motorwyas and i have been on those and they are okay. Well not on the way to Italy! No. You go thru tunnels, loads of them , loooong ones. theya re okay, at elats they are on solid ground. the toruble is you come out of tunnels onto viaducts that are up in the air, no on anything, just haging there between tunnels. And to make it worse, we got stoopped for road works on a via duct!!!!As we sat there, traffic going single file the other way, casued the visduct to tremble, and out car to bounce. The only thought that stopped me freaking altogether was that there was no where to go, nowhere to run. Ijust had to grit my teeth, and do pelvic floor excercises. The longest tunnel is 13 kms long, about 8 miles. So we get into Italy and into Torino. Now we were in trouble. No understanding of the language nor they of us. couldn't find anythign itneresting. Also everything was shut. Interstingly, they have a confusing traffic light system. First off, on pedestrian crossings, the green light for you walk only sort of means that. it really means-'you can cross now but please look out for cars both ways as we won't be legally responsible for your death'. why? Because a Red light for cars means ' we think you should stop, but you don't have to'. Needless to say, we got out of there as soon as we could. Yes back over those via ducts, including an even longer stop on one for the road works. if I ever go to Italy again, it won't be in a car. And as I don't fly, or ship, and I can;t swim that far..... - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 18:21:58 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Andrea (njc) One thing I have noticed since Andrea's passing; this list is a lot more cognizant of how important each and every member is. Reading Colin's post about Marcel raving on regarding an inner circle...hey, so what! We are still this big group of caring indivduals who all have really good taste in music. I wish I could have gotten to know Andrea better. I feel like we would have had a lot in common. Even though she is gone, she will always be remembered, and for that we should be grateful. Thanks, Andrea, for reminding us what this list is all about. Suze n.p. A Bird That Whistles - Hejira * thanks "CK" Muller ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:30:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: njc shaking off futility --- cul heath wrote: > One of the big lessons I learned from all the trauma > (and I think it was > at the source of my difficulty > dealing with Dan's death and "letting go" as it > were) is that we are > never in control of anything > no matter how much we may think that we are. It took > me quite a while to > relinquish my need for "sense of control". > The sudden death of an intimate pulls the rug out > from everything you > held fixed and true. > The psychological damage survivors experience during > the grieving period > is essentially a loss of center... Yes! That's it exactly! We want to have control over ourselves and our environment - and this kind of thing is such a jolt back into reality, where we really have control of very little, if anything at all. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:41:11 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #449 Mark wrote: I don't know. I > think I could forgive this but the whole attitude about > Edward's > illness and some hedging with her daughter about my relationship with > Edward prior to that have always left me uneasy. It was something I > never expected from this person. If anyone has any thoughts about this, I > would appreciate hearing them. Grieving is a strange process. I lost my mother to cancer about 4 years ago and still grieve. I had a baby at the time, and he wasn't even a year old. Grieving and having children around is complicated - I speak from experience. I don't know all the details of what you are writing about here Mark, but I would suggest you don't take anything personally. It isn't easy to grieve and it isn't easy to parent... I would bet that's what this is about; not about you. All we can do is love despite being hurt by people or not understanding them or not being understood by them. I hope you two can reconcile. Time and prayer have a way of opening doors again. With love, Dr. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:45:46 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: death (njc) Anne, I was thinking the same thing and was discussing this with a friend yesterday. It's almost like it comes in waves. We recalled having the same conversation a year ago. It gets heavy. I haven't said much on the list but I am thinking about all the people who have lost somone and praying that they are able to find some sort of peace - although I know life is forever changed. I loved Jenny's sign...and Anne's post - and it is so wonderful that you are here to write this post! In the midst of all this - on Friday my friend gave birth to a beautiful, healthy baby boy named Gabriel. Just another reminder that while there is death, we are also surrounded by life. Love Nikki > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > anne@sandstrom.com > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:19 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: death (njc) > > > There's just way, WAY too much death around these days. > I can feel it just as surely as I can see the fog > outside my window. Andrea and Mag's Dave are the two > examples so close to this list, and there are others > too... > > I'm so sorry for your losses, Bruce and Mags. You ache > while your loved ones discover new truths and horizons > we can't even imagine. > > One thing I can assure everyone here. The departed do > not want you to follow them into the darkness. They > want you to continue living every day. Like Lori, they > want you to shout at how good it feels to ride a > bicycle in the rain. How do I know? When I was dying, I > didn't want anyone to follow me. I didn't want them to > lie in the bed next to me, with all the tubes and > needles attached to them, with all the pain and fear. > All I ever wanted was for someone to remember me. > That's all. So tonight, I remember Andrea and Dave and > wish them peace where they are now. > > It's a f*cking miracle that I'm here to write this. > Like someone once said, "You don't know what you've got > til it's gone." or almost gone, I guess... > > lots of love > Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 18:50:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: death (njc) --- Nikki Johnson wrote: > > In the midst of all this - on Friday my friend gave > birth to a beautiful, > healthy baby boy named Gabriel. Just another > reminder that while there is > death, we are also surrounded by life. Nikki, what an excellent reminder. Nice to hear from you, too. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:22:14 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: njc shaking off futility - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: "Mark or Travis" Para: "cul heath" ; "Catherine McKay" ; Enviado: domingo, 07 de septiembre de 2003 20:29 Asunto: Re: njc shaking off futility [...] > So maybe it isn't lack of experience or compassion that causes people > to not be able to handle another person's grief. I don't know. I > think I could forgive this but the whole attitude about Edward's > illness and some hedging with her daughter about my relationship with > Edward prior to that have always left me uneasy. It was something I > never expected from this person. If anyone has any thoughts about > this, I would appreciate hearing them. > > Mark Dear Mark: In my (always humble regarding human relations) opinion, you should tell her how you feel about her attitude in a time so dark for you. Tell her, with the love you once had with her, that you felt losing her, missing so much her friendly self just when you more needed her. I know that, at the moment, you were so *down* that you weren't able to speak your feelings about her "disloyalty". Time has passed, time passes. You write to us, our friends, about it (many thanks for sharing), and I think you two maybe deserve to have, in your (I think) brief encounters, a conversation based in your post. I hope you don't find this as very off the way or too badly expressed! > Like you said, Kate, some people just don't get it if they haven't been > through it themselves. Alas! that's one of this hu(wo)man world's fails: lack of empathy: to be able to put in someone's shoes, obviously not merely picturing oneself in a millionaire's swinning pool, but to feel other people fails & downs are, although unique, a matter of each and every member of this world. We are taught as children, at such spiritualized and "high" level that Everything is sacred, We'are all children of god, etc. but when it comes to lessons and examples about everyday life, I fear many people tells their children to go away from poor, from sad people, from anybody who's in trouble as it could spatter them. Instead of this empathy, we even apply the golden rule in narrower and narrower "borderlines": not willing to know about pain and other dark sides of life, fearing more and more as we manage our way through this market we used to call world, we cut ourselves our lifelines. Only searching for more and more ahead, we lose life's depth losing contact with so many people whom we could call friends! You know, some people thinks "I don't need to be friendly at work, *I've got* my own friends!" thinking as hu(won)man things get spoiled with continual use! Well, that's my two pesos for today. Have a Wonderful time!: Emiliano NP: The Floating House Band: It won't be easy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:25:03 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Palestinians and Jews njc Holy cow, huh? Talk about jumping from the frying pan and into the fire. It's gonna get much, much worse before it gets better. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 04:35:10 +0200 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: Depression, njc > --- Mark or Travis wrote: > Your life is completely changed > > forever. You don't > > just 'get over it and move on'> > Catherine wrote: > Exactly. Never tell anyone to get over it and move on. > They do that when they're ready. > Mags wrote: > wiser words were never spoken. there is no getting over it anyway. learning to live with a deep , meaningful loss, maybe, but getting it over with, never. > broadsided, mack truck, yea something like that. > I think a distinction should be drawn here between the actual mourning period and "moving on". I met a 44 year old lady this summer who had lost the love of her life in 6 days to leukemia, that was 2 1/2 years ago. She met a buddy of mine this spring and fell in love. She told me at that point she asked herself whether she would spend the rest of her life mourning or resume living. Being an epicurean she chose the latter. Will she ever forget her husband? Of course not. In the jewish religion, when one loses a parent there are 3 successive periods of mourning for the 1st 7 days, 30 days, and 1st year, each observed with increasingly less intensity. It is forbidden to extend these periods by even 1 day. The Torah is always geared toward the living and it believes that mourning and grief must not exceed these lengths. This doesn't mean that the dear ones are EVER forgotten, or that one has to forget them after 1 year or jump into a relationship after 1 year + 1 day. That obviously is a personal thing. All it means is one should not grief forever, to preserve one's sanity I presume. Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:44:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Depression, njc --- Laurent Olszer wrote: > > I think a distinction should be drawn here between > the actual mourning > period and "moving on". > I met a 44 year old lady this summer who had lost > the love of her life in 6 > days to leukemia, that was 2 1/2 years ago. She met > a buddy of mine this > spring and fell in love. She told me at that point > she asked herself whether > she would spend the rest of her life mourning or > resume living. Being an > epicurean she chose the latter. > Will she ever forget her husband? Of course not. > In the jewish religion, when one loses a parent > there are 3 successive > periods of mourning for the 1st 7 days, 30 days, > and 1st year, each > observed with increasingly less intensity. It is > forbidden to extend these > periods by even 1 day. The Torah is always geared > toward the living and it > believes that mourning and grief must not exceed > these lengths. This > doesn't mean that the dear ones are EVER forgotten, > or that one has to > forget them after 1 year or jump into a relationship > after 1 year + 1 day. > That obviously is a personal thing. > All it means is one should not grief forever, to > preserve one's sanity I > presume. > Laurent That actually makes a lot of sense. I think the point is not so much that people shouldn't move on, because, ultimately they have to or they'll go nuts. I think it's more that sometimes other people seem to expect them to get over it very quickly and that doesn't happen. That's why it's good to have family and friends around, who can guide you through it and get you out of your shell and help you move on (without commanding you to, as it were.) I hope that makes sense. ===== Catherine Toronto - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We all live so close to that line, and so far from satisfaction ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:45:02 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: death (njc) Nikki writes: << In the midst of all this - on Friday my friend gave birth to a beautiful, healthy baby boy named Gabriel. Just another reminder that while there is death, we are also surrounded by life. >> So did mine! (Except for the Gabriel part. My friend's baby's name is Francis.) I have been away all weekend so I haven't been to see them yet. I just spoke to my friend on Friday afternoon and she was feeling more pregnant and bigger than she'd ever thought she could get but the baby wasn't due for a couple of weeks, so this is a surprise. I always loved that story about where the indentation that runs from under our noses to our upper lips comes from. Some psople say that that is caused when an angel presses her index finger to a baby's lips before it is born and says, "Shh! Don't tell what you know." --Bob, who's fogotten all he knew anyway ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:00:16 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: death (njc) > << In the midst of all this - on Friday my friend gave birth to a beautiful, > healthy baby boy named Gabriel. Just another reminder that while there is > death, we are also surrounded by life. >> > > So did mine! (Except for the Gabriel part. My friend's baby's name is > Francis.) And I have a new niece, Nicole PATRICIA (for a grand total of 5 nieces) born Thursday night. Life is great!!! Now if I could just beat this sinus infection picked up in the filth of Giant's Stadium (Springsteen, yes it was worth it) then maybe I could see her in person, and life will be even better. Patty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:23:32 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Those black 12 inch plastic things njc In a message dated 9/6/03 12:49:32 AM, wallykai@fibertel.com.ar writes: << i too have two or three 12-inch plastic things but they didn't have any sleeves when i bought them... should i complain at the adult store??? wally >> Naahhh... just pick up the "sleeves" that fit them at the drug store. kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:32:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: andrea njc colin this has got to be one of the most beautiful posts i have ever read anywhere... truly inspired, thank you... colin wrote >I want to point out that NO ONE, but NO ONE, is responsible for Andrea's descision, not even herself. There is nothing any of us could have done to stop her. It is a terrible disease, excruiatingly painful. ending it thru death, is often the only seen soultion and one that cannot be judged. Pain such as this disease causes is intolerable and it is a wonder more of us don't end it that way. However, there is hope. people can work their way thru it. Not on their own. It takes emormous strength and power to continue the search for the right help. Unfortuntately, that help is not easy to find. There are many 'professionsals' out there who know little about how to really help. Drugs, whilst they may offer some releif, are not the answer. A good therapist, woithout their own agenda, who is able to love their client and guide them, rather than lable them and put them in a box, is what is needed yet such T's are very hard to find. could we, any of us, have helped Andrea more? If we were perfect, of course we could have . But we are not. and our love is not perfect either. we may feel compasison and love for someone but not know how to use that in action. Love is about action, not about feeling. I do believe we can love others better. However, it takes a very special sort of person who can do this. That isn't me and it isn't you. To be able to love in that way, we have to be clear of shit ourselves, to really know what love is, to love ourselves, and to love others without all the baggage. Sometimes love is not what we would think. Sometimes it is just letting go.Other times it is being tough. Other times it is doign nothing, just being there. Andrea will now be surrounded by love and will be receiving the healing she needed. Do not fear for her. Whatever God you believe in, God is love and she will not be punsihed . she will be held safe and secure, all her fear will vanish. Her light will shine and she will shed the darkness and emerge like a butterfly from it's cocoon. Bless you Andrea, you have returned home, returned to the light and love that is the home of all of us.< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 20:29:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: andrea njc Dearest Colin, Thank you for saying so much and so beautifully. Your wisdom, compassion and experience shines. I hope that no one here holds themselves responsible for Andreas death. I do know though that we all wish we could have done something or made a difference - that is just human and compassionate. As for the PIG you mentioned - yes that is MY opinion. Dont worry he is too much of an egomaniac to ever think her could be wrong or do wrong. Sorry people - I haad to saay it! He is a mysogonist and I am very happy that he is not here, although in a way he is. Too bad though for the person who thinks they must kow tow to him and forward our posts - shame on you too - get a back bone! Sorry but it sickens me that he is a sort of peeping tom here. But am glad he will read what I had to say not having said enough when he was here - yeah little boy let it gooo! Must be tough knowing the whole world is wrong and you are right - about everything! Peace, Susan (feeling fiesty) tantra-apso wrote: Obvious i did not read thru all the archives before my post. Andrea and I conversed a fair bit. Disturbingly, our last round of posts concerned her getting posts from Deste. She sent me all these posts concerning the Inenr Cicrle and how in Deste's mind it is very real and why he is no longer on the jmdl. Andrea was understandably confused by these posts, especially given her state of spirit. Do not misunderstand, i am NOT saying this had anything to do with her dcecision. I just can;t believe this person is still spreading his poison, especially to vulnerable people. Andrea was upset by it and understandably did not know what to do think about it. tho she did read thru old archives and was better able to see where the poster was at. Andrea I am sure is at peace now. We had a lot in common, we understood eachother as best one can thru email, which can really be more open then real time talking. I want to point out that NO ONE, but NO ONE, is responsible for Andrea's descision, not even herself. There is nothing any of us could have done to stop her. It is a terrible disease, excruiatingly painful. ending it thru death, is often the only seen soultion and one that cannot be judged. Pain such as this disease causes is intolerable and it is a wonder more of us don't end it that way. However, there is hope. people can work their way thru it. Not on their own. It takes emormous strength and power to continue the search for the right help. Unfortuntately, that help is not easy to find. There are many 'professionsals' out there who know little about how to really help. Drugs, whilst they may offer some releif, are not the answer. A good therapist, woithout their own agenda, who is able to love their client and guide them, rather than lable them and put them in a box, is what is needed yet such T's are very hard to find. could we, any of us, have helped Andrea more? If we were perfect, of course we could have . But we are not. and our love is not perfect either. we may feel compasison and love for someone but not know how to use that in action. Love is about action, not about feeling. I do believe we can love others better. However, it takes a very special sort of person who can do this. That isn't me and it isn't you. To be able to love in that way, we have to be clear of shit ourselves, to really know what love is, to love ourselves, and to love others without all the baggage. Sometimes love is not what we would think. Sometimes it is just letting go.Other times it is being tough. Other times it is doign nothing, just being there. Andrea will now be surrounded by love and will be receiving the healing she needed. Do not fear for her. Whatever God you believe in, God is love and she will not be punsihed . she will be held safe and secure, all her fear will vanish. Her light will shine and she will shed the darkness and emerge like a butterfly from it's cocoon. Bless you Andrea, you have returned home, returned to the light and love that is the home of all of us. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:25:42 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation Just thought I'd mention that I was up to my Daughter's in CT for the weekend; my grandson's first birthday party was Sunday. When I talked to my daughter on Thursday, she mentioned that Crosby, Stills & Nash were going to be at the Oakdale theater (in Wallingford, exactly 3 miles from Joanne's) on Saturday, and maybe I'd want to go. I usually see them each year when they appear at MSG in Manhattan but figured, "what the hey?" To make a long story short, no one else wanted to go (wife Ro is still recovering from eye surgery) and because I was only buying one ticket, was able to score a front row seat in the mid orchestra section to the right side of the stage. I was probably a hundred feet from stage center, so close that with my binoculars, could not fit all three guys in the view at the same time; most often, couldn't even get two of them in unless they were right next to each other. Best part is, ticket was only $56. (including those "fees" they charge now) so for half the price of a ticket to be further back at MSG in NYC, I got a much better seat in a venue that holds only 4,800 people. If anyone you know is scheduled to appear at Oakdale, it worth going out of your way for... the last seat in the house is still better than most seats half-way back in a much-larger venue. BTW, the guys put on a typically great show. Highlights included a fabulous rendition of "DejaVu", with Crosby introducing it to the crowd by saying, "Stephen writes the rock & roll, Graham writes the deep ballads... and I write the weird shit." (Pause while people laugh, then...) "I'm well-suited for it." (More laughs.) In an out-of-character move, Stills played keyboards onband sangban old blues number (title escapes me, I think Booker T wrote it) and Nash played keyboards on a fine, dramatic version of "Cathedral." Stills' voice is showing signs of wear on some tunes but Crosby sounds stronger than ever; Nash is like Dorian Gray... never seems to get older. They started promptly at 7:30, took a 15 minute break and finished the last encore at 10:25. Old friends Joe Vitale played drums, Michael Finnigan played piano, Hammond B3 and misc. keyboards and a new, young bass player (who's name I've forgotten,) is touring with them for the first time. Lots of standing ovations from the crowd; the folks were really INTO it... the guys said this was the "loudest audience" they've played to on the tour. Oh, yeah... they played "Woodstock" as one of their encores... sure, we all sang along! (My Joni content through six degrees of separation.) Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:37:31 -0700 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separationNJC Kenny!! Great review and thanks for sharing. I'm envous! Best, Stephen in Vancouver NP: David Gray- White Ladder Quoting PassScribe@aol.com: > Just thought I'd mention that I was up to my Daughter's in CT for the > weekend; my grandson's first birthday party was Sunday. When I talked to my > > daughter on Thursday, she mentioned that Crosby, Stills & Nash were going to > be at > the Oakdale theater (in Wallingford, exactly 3 miles from Joanne's) on..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:51:14 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: andrea njc, "me too" post Yes, this was inspiring, Colin. I hoped you'd join in on this thread and I was concerned when you didn't for days and days. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you. I am relieved that you are on the case! Lama From: "Kate Bennett" > colin this has got to be one of the most beautiful posts i have ever read > anywhere... > truly inspired, thank you... > colin wrote > However, there is hope. people can work their way thru it. Not on their > own. It takes emormous strength and power to continue the search for the > right help. Unfortuntately, that help is not easy to find. There are > many 'professionsals' out there who know little about how to really > help. Drugs, whilst they may offer some releif, are not the answer. A > good therapist, woithout their own agenda, who is able to love their > client and guide them, rather than lable them and put them in a box, is > what is needed yet such T's are very hard to find. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:58:17 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: CSN, was Re: Joni content by 6 degrees of separation Some of their shows in the 70s were a bit rough. Once everyone..... uhmmm.... got healthy, they seemed to learn their parts and stay at them. The first two times I saw them it sounded like everyone was trying to take the harmonies in a different direction. (I apologize to those who know the jargon better but) if everyone goes "flat" and no one goes "sharp", it doesn't sound like harmony. It just sounds "flat". CSN lives up to the expression "gets better with age." Lama From: > Best part is, ticket was only $56. (including those "fees" they charge > now) so for half the price of a ticket to be further back at MSG in NYC, I got a > much better seat in a venue that holds only 4,800 people. If anyone you know > is scheduled to appear at Oakdale, it worth going out of your way for... the > last seat in the house is still better than most seats half-way back in a > much-larger venue. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:34:27 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Laura (njc) Mark E wrote: > Two more ravishing songs from 'The First Songs': "I Never > Meant To Hurt You" and "He's a Runner". A bit on the conventional > side, perhaps, but still beautiful songs. I just love it. These are my two of my secret favorite Laura songs that I learned from that (now valuable on eBay) songbook a way back in the 70s. I never did have the right voice for either one but sang them incessantly none the less ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:01:35 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Depression (njc) Mark wrote: > Sorry for the rant, folks. But I hear you loud and clear, Kate. It > amazes me sometimes just how callous people can be. I wanted to ask > my boss how he would feel if he lost his wife. I don't think it would > have made a damn bit of difference. Like you said, Kate, some people > just don't get it if they haven't been through it themselves. I've experienced the same thing for years now in the workplace and I just can't get over it. Why do they give us bereavement and other leave if they are only going to penalize us if we take it. It blows my mind. I just cannot believe these people have never been through anything similar themselves. Don't they live in this world? If it hasn't happened to them personally haven't they at least observed it happening to their friends or extended family members? Years ago I had to have major surgery and a cancer biopsy. I freaking postponed the operation for several months so that I could fulfill my work obligations on a trial I was working on. The night before my surgery, my lawyers insisted I work until 2 in the morning even though at that time they knew what physical distress I was in. Another lawyer mentioned to me that I better watch out going out on leave for my surgery because they'd just fired an attorney for going out on leave for brain tumor surgery. We do have laws here and I could have filed a nice claim from such harassment but I didn't. In the end, a good lawyer I worked with not only stood up for me but fought to give me an extra bonus that year that technically I could not get for having taken medical leave off. At this point, I don't care - I will do what I have to do in my life and let the chips fall as they may. Incredibly, as I said, our laws say that an employer may not discriminate against an employee in this way and yet here you have even lawyers violating that law. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:00:07 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: September 8 1974: Joni performed at the Roosevelt Raceway in New York 1979: Joni performed at the Civic Auditorium in San Francisco More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=881 http://www.jonimitchell.com/SF79.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:00:07 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: September 8 On September 8 the following articles were published: 1998: "Beatles Dominate All-Time Albums Poll" - Billboard (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=51 2001: "Words From A Woman Of Heart And Mind" - Billboard (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=677 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 07:26:19 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Andrea Njc Colin... Your post about Andrea on Digest #449 was a beautiful. Thank whoever and wherever that there are people on this planet like you... and thank Joni that we know you. Lucy XX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:48:53 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Depression, njc Laurent wrote: > In the jewish religion, when one loses a parent there are 3 successive > periods of mourning for the 1st 7 days, 30 days, and 1st year, each > observed with increasingly less intensity. It is forbidden to extend these > periods by even 1 day. The Torah is always geared toward the living and it > believes that mourning and grief must not exceed these lengths. This > doesn't mean that the dear ones are EVER forgotten, or that one has to > forget them after 1 year or jump into a relationship after 1 year + 1 day. > That obviously is a personal thing. > All it means is one should not grief forever, to preserve one's sanity I > presume. I've also experienced people who have said "get over it" immediately after I have suffered a loss and I have always thought that their reactions were just not real, you know, and just made everything worse. Now the one year period of mourning that we know from tradition was actually proven out in a study a few years ago. It was found that, after a loss of a loved one either by death or by the end of a relationship, it actually took at least a year for the person affected to become somewhat "whole" again. The study proved that such losses create a truly physiological shock to one's system and it takes about a year to physicially, emotionally and otherwise heal or at least transcend the loss and become their old selves again. I found this helpful in that I would give myself that year and not feel pressured to "snap out of it" and "move on" before I am ready to do so. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #450 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)