From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #429 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, August 28 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 429 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Happy Birthday Mingus (NJC) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: Sports & yankees suc--- oops, I mean, play poorly njc [Susan Guzzi <] Re: Adam, Eve, etc. (NJC) ["hell" ] Re: Guitarists njc ["Adam Mulvey" ] BitTorrent - njc [Les Irvin ] Jonifest (njc) [rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com] Re: Jonifest (njc) [notaro@stpt.usf.edu] Re: New Joni DVD [Bob Shemkovitz ] Re: Jonifest (njc) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: E: religion/Roy Moore - LONG and njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Adam, Eve, etc. (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) [] Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) [] Re: Carolina NJC [] Happy Birthday Mingus (NJC) [Claud9 ] Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) [Emiliano ] Re: Guitarists [Emiliano ] Re: Jane who? NJC now [Emiliano ] Re: NJC Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Adam, Eve, etc. (NJC) [Checked by NAI at US SMTP Gateway] ["Kay Ashl] Re: Passion Play [Emiliano ] Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) [] RE: Can I burn it? njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Psychic Sylvia Browne NJC [dsk ] Beautiful Joni chords ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Passion Play ["StephenToogood" ] Re: Passion Play [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: E: religion/Roy Moore - LONG and njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: A case of Carolina SJC ["Sherelle Smith" ] Re: Passion Play, now NRH songs [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:06:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Mingus (NJC) HAPPY BIRTHDAY MINGUS!!! May this be the happiest of days and years rolling out before you. So glad to have met you this year and spent time together ... all my love and ... Peace, Susan Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Sports & yankees suc--- oops, I mean, play poorly njc Thanks for spreading the word all the way around the world Hell! So happy she did not purchase a SCUBS shirt, after all Hell is not a yuppie scum lemming like the rest of them! Bedsides, I am sure Joni would be a Sox fan too - she loves the underdogs. Damn its almost september and the White sox are in first place wooo hooo! We don' need no stinking cork or steroids Sammy Soso! Peace, Susan who loves to hate the Scubs ( scubs = cubs + scabs) Hell - the proud owner of a White Sox shirt, purchased when I was in Chicago in July. And you should have heard Susan's scream of delight when I pulled it out of the bag! Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:11:03 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Adam, Eve, etc. (NJC) Maggie wrote: > NOW ME: Point well taken. When we think of it this way > it seems more cooperative and less oppressive, does it > not? It takes some of the sting out, and allows us to think > in terms of having evolved to play to our strengths. When > we think of it in this way we end up being able to see that > when circumstances change, people can change...as long > as we continue to play to our strengths. For example, I > am a good navigator. I read maps well. So, over the > years of being with Alex we have gotten to the point where > whenever we are going someplace new he drives and I'm in > the jump seat so that I can navigate. From the outside > looking in, it could look like: the man of the house drives, > the little woman is the passive passenger. You who know > us know full well that this is not the case (in the least... > LOL!!), but it is a case of playing to our respective strengths. You've got me thinking again (god help us all)! But I wonder why the cooperative method of living that we've talked about, turned into the male being so dominant and oppressive over women? Women's place in society has been subservient to men for a long period in history (and I do mean historially, not "now"), but I'm quite certain this wasn't always the case. There are many societies where women were revered, and certainly matriarchal societies are common in many different cultures. So why did women become "second class citizens" - not allowed to work, not allowed in bars, not allowed to vote, etc., etc., etc.? To enhance on my own theory, maybe this has something to do with that natural aggression in men, and it's being "thwarted" in many ways by progress? A man working with pen and paper doesn't have an outlet for that aggression, so perhaps (and again, this is just my theory) it was brought home after the day's work, and released as "dominance" over the woman and to some degree, the children? Over time, this would have become more "common-place" and an accepted way to behave - right or wrong. It's interesting (to me at least!) that women's emergence into areas of the workforce previously dominated by men, was brought about by a HUGE act of aggression, ie. the Second World War. There were few men left (of working age) to work in the factories etc., so women were forced to take over, and weren't entirely willing to give up their positions when the men came back home again. But perhaps the male population were more accepting of this following the war, simply because a lot of those aggressive emotions had been released? I'm really thinking out loud here, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has any thoughts on these theories? Not exactly Joni-related, but I'm sure she'd have some theories of her own on this subject ;o)! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:17:59 +0100 From: "Adam Mulvey" Subject: Re: Guitarists njc > >I'm no expert but do any of you guys think that Janis Ian should have made > that list?< > > yes, she is a wonderful guitarist... Yeah, she's a fantastically talented musician all round... Her biggest struggle has always been to write lyrics which match the quality of her playing IMHO. Except Between The Lines, which is a masterpiece. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:33:03 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: BitTorrent - njc Joniphiles - Has anyone experimented with BitTorrent file-sharing? If so, or if interested, drop me a line off-list. Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:12:52 -0700 From: rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com Subject: Jonifest (njc) Hey yall, Trust me to be the last person to post about Jonifest! Although I didnt fly out of or into any of the blacked-out cities, it still took me two and a half days to get home: after that, me and my fellow Vivezans spent a wonderful long weekend making music on Orcas Island. As with all Jonifests, I was awestruck by the talent, but also missed some folks. This year, my dear and beloved friend Heather Galli was able to join us for one day, but I missed Bryan Thomas, that indefatigable chanteuse Wally K (I fully expected you to be there, Wally - send me your snail mail address and you will finally get to hear Barbara sing In Questa Reggia), and Kenny Grant, who is missed more with each passing year. On the plus side, I had as a roommate Patrick Leader, whom I love as dearly as I do my last years roommate, Chuck Eisenhardt. Im afraid to leave anybody out, but here are some highlights: - being picked up by Donna and Bob (how can two such nice people also be so sexy???) - seeing Sue Cameron again (I love her, but who am I among so many?) - seeing Alison again, and meeting her mother, as well as Jimmy and Ed (hard to tell who is coolest.....) - hugging Jody again, and getting to meet her handsome husband Scott - hugging Mags again (my Canadian friend), hugging Brei again (my New Jersey friend), and meeting Magss daughter - seeing Bette and John again, two of my - and everybodys - favorite people - spending some quality time with my dearly loved friend Barbara Hindley and her equally dearly loved spouse Chuck Eisenhardt. Some highlights as a listener: - Les Ross, as always a deeply provocative and subtly emotional performer; his set lives forever within the souls of those lucky enough to catch it - Gisele, who gives everything she has to the audience and who is, quite simply and IMHO, one of the best performers Ive ever had the privilege to see - Kay Ashley, one of my friends (lucky me!) and a spectacular guitarist and singer: may she have a recording contract soon, not for her sake but for ours - Stryngs - What is there to say? You have Martin Giles on guitar, Stryngs on vocals, and the one and only Chris Marshall on bass. You make amazing music! - Claudia Sans Soucie, what a beautiful voice, what an accomplished guitarist, what an enchanting maker of music. You held us all enthralled...... - Walt, youre funny as well as talented - Sugar Pants.........from me you get the Lenny Bruce/Jack Kerouac award for being funny while at the same time being deeply disturbed....... - Steve Polifka, the (handsome) man with the voice, the ear, and the keyboard chops. What a great pleasure it was to hear you! - Chuck E. - as always, your formidable talent, your utter and complete professionalism, your impeccable ear, and your one-of-a-kind, beautiful singing voice overwhelm me. Some highlights as a performer (i.e., accompanist): - Susan Guzzi: This chick can sing, and shes a natural musician, and Id crawl over broken glass to play for her again, anywhere, any time. - Ashara Stansfield: Lest we forget, the organizer and overseer of Jonifest is also a talented performer in her own right. Thank you, Ashara, for introducing me to that beautiful Judy Collins song, The Fallow Way, and thank you even more for singing it with such compassion and sincerity. - Barbara Little: Somewhere in the Village theres a cabaret. Lets put on a show there.......anyone who was at Jonifest 2002 will not be surprised to learn that youre a kick-ass singer, and a hell of a musician to boot - Bob Muller: What can I say - Ethiopia was great, but the way you sang Tom Waitss song was even greater. Itll be a long time before my eyes are dry, and an even longer time before Ill find a singer I love playing for more than I love playing for you. Thank you for inspiring me to go beyond what I thought I could do.  - Jenny Goodspeed: Thank you for your brilliant choral arrangements and for your excellent conducting (also for your beautiful singing). - the Broadway Group: well, that was magic for me, pure and simple. The chorus numbers were great, and Victors solo was deeply moving and wonderful. May we hear anything like THAT on Broadway sometime soon.......... Anyway, after Jonifest I went to Massachusetts to v isit with my friend Ric. Doesnt get much better than that! Take care, yall!!! Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:36:46 -0400 (EDT) From: notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: Re: Jonifest (njc) And let me tell you all who were not there that Roberto is one of the people who made Jonifest what it was. He was a tireless accompanist, who said yes to all who asked. While others were getting away for conversation and waterfalls, he rehearsed tirelessly. He never once complained, and only thanked everyone for the opportunities. True class. A true gentleman. And a world class musician. When he and Victor open at The Duplex with Just Victor and Roberto 2003, be there! Jerry Quoting rholliston@HighSpeedPlus.com: > Hey yall, > Trust me to be the last person to post about Jonifest! Although I didnt > fly out of or into any of the blacked-out cities, it still took me two > and a half days to get home: after that, me and my fellow Vivezans spent > a wonderful long weekend making music on Orcas Island. > As with all Jonifests, I was awestruck by the talent, but also missed > some folks. This year, my dear and beloved friend Heather Galli was able > to join us for one day, but I missed Bryan Thomas, that indefatigable > chanteuse Wally K (I fully expected you to be there, Wally - send me > your snail mail address and you will finally get to hear Barbara sing In > Questa Reggia), and Kenny Grant, who is missed more with each passing > year. > On the plus side, I had as a roommate Patrick Leader, whom I love as > dearly as I do my last years roommate, Chuck Eisenhardt. > Im afraid to leave anybody out, but here are some highlights: > - being picked up by Donna and Bob (how can two such nice people also > be so sexy???) > - seeing Sue Cameron again (I love her, but who am I among so many?) > - seeing Alison again, and meeting her mother, as well as Jimmy and Ed > (hard to tell who is coolest.....) > - hugging Jody again, and getting to meet her handsome husband Scott > - hugging Mags again (my Canadian friend), hugging Brei again (my New > Jersey friend), and meeting Magss daughter > - seeing Bette and John again, two of my - and everybodys - favorite > people > - spending some quality time with my dearly loved friend Barbara > Hindley and her equally dearly loved spouse Chuck Eisenhardt. > > Some highlights as a listener: > - Les Ross, as always a deeply provocative and subtly emotional > performer; his set lives forever within the souls of those lucky enough > to catch it > - Gisele, who gives everything she has to the audience and who is, > quite simply and IMHO, one of the best performers Ive ever had the > privilege to see > - Kay Ashley, one of my friends (lucky me!) and a spectacular guitarist > and singer: may she have a recording contract soon, not for her sake but > for ours > - Stryngs - What is there to say? You have Martin Giles on guitar, > Stryngs on vocals, and the one and only Chris Marshall on bass. You make > amazing music! > - Claudia Sans Soucie, what a beautiful voice, what an accomplished > guitarist, what an enchanting maker of music. You held us all > enthralled...... > - Walt, youre funny as well as talented > - Sugar Pants.........from me you get the Lenny Bruce/Jack Kerouac > award for being funny while at the same time being deeply > disturbed....... > - Steve Polifka, the (handsome) man with the voice, the ear, and the > keyboard chops. What a great pleasure it was to hear you! > - Chuck E. - as always, your formidable talent, your utter and > complete professionalism, your impeccable ear, and your one-of-a-kind, > beautiful singing voice overwhelm me. > > Some highlights as a performer (i.e., accompanist): > - Susan Guzzi: This chick can sing, and shes a natural musician, and > Id crawl over broken glass to play for her again, anywhere, any time. > - Ashara Stansfield: Lest we forget, the organizer and overseer of > Jonifest is also a talented performer in her own right. Thank you, > Ashara, for introducing me to that beautiful Judy Collins song, The > Fallow Way, and thank you even more for singing it with such compassion > and sincerity. > - Barbara Little: Somewhere in the Village theres a cabaret. Lets put > on a show there.......anyone who was at Jonifest 2002 will not be > surprised to learn that youre a kick-ass singer, and a hell of a > musician to boot > - Bob Muller: What can I say - Ethiopia was great, but the way you sang > Tom Waitss song was even greater. Itll be a long time before my eyes > are dry, and an even longer time before Ill find a singer I love > playing for more than I love playing for you. Thank you for inspiring me > to go beyond what I thought I could do.  > - Jenny Goodspeed: Thank you for your brilliant choral arrangements > and for your excellent conducting (also for your beautiful singing). > - the Broadway Group: well, that was magic for me, pure and simple. The > chorus numbers were great, and Victors solo was deeply moving and > wonderful. May we hear anything like THAT on Broadway sometime > soon.......... > > Anyway, after Jonifest I went to Massachusetts to v isit with my friend > Ric. Doesnt get much better than that! > > Take care, yall!!! > > Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:38:23 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: New Joni DVD on Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:24:58 6, Adam Mulvey wrote: > Subject: Re: New Joni DVD > > Has anyone seen the new 'Woman of Heart and Mind' DVD? I've seen it many times, Adam, and highly recommend it to you. It is easily one of the best documentaries I have ever watched. Not only does it feature Joni in some very articulate interviews about the art and craft of her songwriting, but the film also really plumbs the depths of the emotional content of her work and her life story. It is a very affecting film. And even though I own it on DVD and can watch it anytime I want, when it showed up this Saturday on the local PBS station, I couldn't help but sit down and watch it again. During the pledge breaks, Henry Diltz was in the studio pitching his new book, and he talked about Joni. He is the photographer who took so many of the classic photos of Joni that you see in her albums and in the film. He first met her when Mama Cass threw a party to welcome Eric Clapton to the states, and Graham Nash brought Joni. Anyway, the best story he told was about his rather sly working methods. Diltz of course is a documentary photographer, as opposed to a formal studio photographer. But whenever Joni would have a session scheduled with a studio guy, Diltz would call her up and ask her if he could come too. So there she'd be all in clothes and makeup for the formal studio shoot, and Diltz would come in and snap off a few bootleg shots. Gotta admire the chutzpah. Oh yeah. Diltz also mentioned that Joni really likes to talk. Who knew? By the way, since someone mentioned synchronicity in today's digest, I might as well mention that it was kind of synchronistic that I should find the Joni film on TV when I got home this Saturday. I had just returned from my niece's birthday party, where I gave her a copy of Blue for her first Joni CD. Bob By the way, here is Diltz's website. A lot of interesting pics of Joni, CSN, etc: http://www.henrysgallery.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:56:36 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonifest (njc) > Thank you for inspiring me to go beyond what I thought I > could do. But that's part of your magic, Roberto...your talent & ability are without limit! And I say that NOT at all in jest. I've said this before, but it bears repeating...Saturday afternoon, while others were chilling on the porch, napping, relaxing, etc. you were painstakingly CREATING the sheet music for the songs we would do. Please realize that this kind of effort is something that NOBODY ELSE ON THE PLANET would have done, and your grace and generosity is almost beyond my comprehension. Your playing was so inspired that it pushed me vocally to go way beyond what I thought I would do...not a tribute to me, by any means, but rather to YOU. Thanks too for your whole report - it was wonderful. Now, you send me YOUR snail mail so I can share some very cool stuff with you, my friend. Bob NP: The Wallflowers, "I've Been Delivered" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:01:35 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: E: religion/Roy Moore - LONG and njc > my exact thoughts maggie, then i realized this maybe the dark side of > goodbob that smurf has been warning us about...or maybe its > because he's > killed a spider... All I'll say for now about that is that it's not something I'm comfortable talking about onlist to the group at large, but I don't think it would change your opinion of me very much. I noticed that nobody questioned the one about me coveting my neighbor's ass! :~D Bob NP: The Wallflowers, "Witness" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:15:17 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Adam, Eve, etc. (NJC) > I don't see why that concept has to come from a church or a > book. Or why it has to be connected so some complex system of belief > that seeks to define what to me is indefinable. To me it > is just > common sense. An excellent point & an excellent post, Mark. I suppose my response would be to make an analogy that maybe helps to explain some of it, from my perspective anyway. As Joni Mitchell fans, we can enjoy her music/art on our own, without having to celebrate it with anyone else...but how much more does it get magnified and how much more insight can we gain when we become members of a "community" that also gets it? I would say that the JMDL bears that out. Of course, there are things that we disagree on, and sometimes we get offtrack & petty, but as a whole we are better because of the community aspect. The church is no different...worship & praise can be (and should be) done on a personal level, but there is a value in corporate worship, corporate prayer, corporate praise, group discussions about theology, beliefs, scriptures, etc. Like the JMDL, churches sometimes lose their focus, get offtrack, have disagreements etc. but if they can remain concentrated on the fact that at the core of Christ's teaching is loving God and loving and taking care of your neighbors, they can accomplish much good in the world. Can you appreciate Joni without the JMDL? Of course! Many do. Can you be solid as a rock spiritually without participating in an organized religion or church? Of course, many do. At least that's my take on it. Bob NP: The Wallflowers, "Up From Under" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:14:24 -0400 From: Subject: Re: NJC Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) Hi Bob! You were the first person I wanted to call when I arrived but nobody told me that moving to the apartment and getting my act together in grad school take an awful lot of time. Thanks for the warm welcome. > I was just thinking that you should be landing in James Taylor > country by > now...I've been on that campus many times, and it is indeed > beautiful. As are > those Carolina girls, so keep your eyes and mind on those books! ;~) There is a James taylor Bridge here in campus and the Student Health Service is called James A. Taylor Student Health Service. I didn't know he was a Chapel Hill native; I only know that Tori Amos and Thelonious Monk are NC natives. Michael Jordan finished geography in UNC many years ago. And yes, I will take the advice to heart -- mind on books and readings even if it will take a Herculean task to do so. As what our grad program coordinator said: people are picture-perfect (not sure what standard he is basing it on, but I agree...). > And don't forget that Springsteen is coming to town in a couple of > weeks...Rosie, get thee to UNC and show Joseph a Boss time! I heard about that one. Almost all of my professors who knew I am into music told me that piece of info about Bruce Springsteen, but the one I really want to go to is the concert of the Barefoot Diva come October 28. Cesaria Evora will perform in Hill Hall and even if the price is a bit steep for an impoverished grad student like myself I will move heaven and earth just so I could go (never mind if I have to skip meals for two days... I think). > Looking forward to finding out when you're going to have a study > break so we > can get together - can't wait. Me too. How long is the drive from Chapel Hill to your place? Joseph ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:17:01 -0400 From: Subject: Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) Thanks, Paz for the warmest of welcome. The local music scene is quite alive and well here. I heard of some good ones. Caitlin Cary is my current fave. My current obsession right nowis learning to speak with a Southern accent like "y'all" but I am sure Bob M can do a much much better job of this. Joseph in CH Quoting Michael Paz : > Joseph!!! > So good to hear from you again and on a closer shore. Welcome back > and hope > to hear much more from you. Hope the new digs suit you well. > > Best > > Paz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:21:08 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Carolina NJC Hi Bryan, I am obviously not the best person you should talk to, but email me offlist so I can send you my number and we can talk about your plan. By the time you get here, I may know the area already. Or maybe not, but just the same, I would be more than willing to assist. Joseph in CH Quoting BRYAN8847@aol.com: > Subject: Re: A Case of Carolina (SJC) > > I am looking closely at moving to NC - probably Triangle area but > possibly > Charlotte or Asheville. If anyone has any infinite wisdom to share > about > relocating/living in the area, please let me know. Looking for > professional/employment connections of course. > > Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:17:58 -0400 From: Claud9 Subject: Happy Birthday Mingus (NJC) Happy Birthday Mingus!!!!! What a pleasure meeting you! Celebrate in style and make it last! Hugs, Claud ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:12:40 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) Hi, Joseph! Nice to hear from you! I hope you'll find good movie theaters ( you know, with "foreign" films) in Chappel Hill! Make a Great way through Grad School, my friend! Yours: Emiliano NP: La Lupe: Puro teatro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:23:24 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Guitarists - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kate Bennett" To: Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 5:57 AM Subject: Re: Guitarists > >I'm no expert but do any of you guys think that Janis Ian should have made > that list?< > > yes, she is a wonderful guitarist...i imagine that the list is heavily > weighed not only on the male side but on the electric guitar side...did any > men who play acoustic make the list? did richie havens? did any classical or > flamenco guitarists? Hi, Kate! As reading in La Voz de Galicia's yesterday edition: [...] and it's the electric guitar, exclusively, what this ranking judges; this explains Paco de Luci'a's absence, usually considerated one of world's greatest when spanish guitar are included. [...] I think you must know Paco de Luci'a, at least through his work with McLaughlin & Al di Meola (and Larry Corryell?). Regarding our Queen, Pablo Carballo says: "songwriter of long run (career) and wide influence" Well, Have a Wonderful time! Emiliano NP: Al di Meola & Paco de Luci'a: Mediterranean sundance / Ri'o ancho ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:32:40 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Jane who? NJC now Dear Ash! What an adventure! Things like this always makes me think that many records & book shops have employees that don't know, "from mass, not even half part of it". I feel identified with your actions: shy ones like me often get angry and inclined to "play a little number" Don't feel at all worry about it (everyone looking and so): the loss is to them! Enjoy! Yours: Emiliano NP: John McLaughlin & Al di Meola: Short tales of the Black Forest - ----- Original Message ----- From: "ash" To: Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:24 AM Subject: Jane who? [...] > Everyone in the shop looked at me...as I retreated slowly backward...with the wife saying > "your an embarrassment, I can't take you any where!" > but worse...everyday I now have to pass the music shop on the way to work! > [...] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:47:08 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) In a message dated 8/28/2003 9:14:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, palis@email.unc.edu writes: > I didn't know > he was a Chapel Hill native; Well, he was born in Boston but he moved to Chapel Hill when he was three when his Dad became a dean at UNC's Medical School, and like you he quickly fell in love with the area..."Carolina In My Mind", anyone? Michael Jordan finished geography in UNC many > years ago. The same time my wife graduated from there with a degree in Geography, she had Jordan in a couple of her classes. According to her, he never attended the lectures, he would just walk in on exam day and sign his name & walk out. I'll say his degree paid off for him very lucratively- I hope YOU can be as blessed! :~) Cesaria Evora will perform in Hill Hall and even if the price is a > bit steep for an impoverished grad student like myself I will move > heaven and earth just so I could go (never mind if I have > to skip meals > for two days... I think). I'm sure there will be many great cultural events there during your residence - enjoy! I saw a couple of great concerts on that campus - George Thorogood & U2 among them. Bob NP: Wall of Voodoo, "Animal Day" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:27:28 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Re: Adam, Eve, etc. (NJC) [Checked by NAI at US SMTP Gateway] Mark wrote: But I don't see why the view that each life is precious and that all of us are connected and need one another and therefore we *have* to treat one another as well as we possibly can and *love* as much as we are capable - I don't see why that concept has to come from a church or a book. Or why it has to be connected so some complex system of belief that seeks to define what to me is indefinable. To me it is just common sense. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Mark, I absolutely agree. This is why I do not participate in an organized religion -- I was so unimpressed with the church elders when I was a child that I quickly concluded that I didn't need them to tell me how to live (I was subjected to a minister who sounded remarkably similar to the one on The Simpsons: "Oh Lord, we Beseeeatch Thee...". However, my grandmother, who was extremely religious (a southern Presbyterian) and derived an amazing amount of strength from her faith, used to say that churches are "hospitals for sinners." Which was her very colloquial way of saying that some people need the organization of the church more than others. Now, this is not to say that I'm not a bad girl -- anyone on list who's met me knows that I am ;-). But some people thrive in that environment and others don't. My grandmother was someone who liked being told what the answers are, and thoroughly enjoyed their repetition. I like to find out myself. And I suspect that most people on list are more apt to fall into the latter category. Mark's comments imply that our basic sense of morality is innate. Now here's a new twist to the discussion -- and Maggie, I do expect a full report -- how and when (and why) did our morality evolve? :-) Kay "Mark or Travis" , Kay Ashley/Nwy/US/WCG@WCG, "Maggie McNally" net> cc: 08/27/2003 10:10 bcc: PM EDT Subject: Re: Adam, Eve, etc. (NJC) [Checked by NAI at US SMTP Gateway] kakki wrote: > Kay and Maggie - you've said what I wanted to say but was prevented > from chest constriction and loss of oxygen to the brain on the > Catholic thread: > >> And this part of your answer also gives hope -- our cognitive >> abilities allow us to "decide" to evolve further. And, to come full >> circle, isn't that really the higher purpose of all the religions? >> To show us how to evolve into something better? > > Exactly. I've been mulling this one over and it seems to me that religion itself has evolved. My understanding is that religion most probably began as a way for humans to explain natural phenomena and to subsequently influence or appease those phenoma in order to thrive and survive. This led to the concept of gods and spirits and other supernatural beings. Rituals were developed to appeal to these beings and ask for their help or to avert their wrath. These rituals often involved sacrifices of one kind or another in many cultures and eventually codes of behavior were developed partly for practical reasons and partly as deference to and appeasement of these deities. It seems to me that, initially, religion had little to do with a 'higher purpose'. It was mainly a way to try and barter with unknown and misunderstood forces of nature for physical well-being in a harsh world. There is much in modern day religion that certainly seeks to make us into more highly evolved, compassionate and spiritual beings but I think that has only come about in more recent history (recent being relative to the long history of the species and the even longer history of the earth). Personally, I still don't see why we need it, at least the organized variety. Maybe I wouldn't have known that compassion and love are virtues if I hadn't been brought up in a Christian home and taken to Sunday school and church. I suppose that is possible although I would like to think otherwise. But I don't see why the view that each life is precious and that all of us are connected and need one another and therefore we *have* to treat one another as well as we possibly can and *love* as much as we are capable - I don't see why that concept has to come from a church or a book. Or why it has to be connected so some complex system of belief that seeks to define what to me is indefinable. To me it is just common sense. Mark E. in Seattle _____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:14:31 +0200 From: Emiliano Subject: Re: Passion Play Hi, Stephen! Reading posts from the past (last november: I wasn't the happy JiMDLer I'm now) in order to read first impressions on Travelogue (one thing I'm very curious about), I found these two more references: As you see, Bob's is amazingly useful, as is Hell's one I sent you yesterday! Many many many thanks to all of you; dears, you Rock! Emiliano NP: Slouching Towards Bethlehem - ----------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:31:35 -0500 From: "Erica L. Trudelle" Subject: Re: Passion Play I'm sure other people here can give you a more definite answer, but I read (here) that Joni was possibly inspired to write "Passion Play" after attending an actual Passion Play (which I think is recreation of sorts having to do with Jesus' death) Don't hold me to that, I just remember some other listers mentioning it within the last 6 months. I was just listening to this song about 20 minutes ago, I love it!!!! "who you gonna get to do the dirty work when all the slaves are free......." it's a timeless line that works on so many levels.....oh and I love when she calls Jesus a "magical physician" (I am reading a book in which someone calls the Dalai Lama a "spiritual physician", it made me think of that lyric) Hope this helps some what. Erica NP: "For Free" I would love to hear people's thoughts on "Passion Play (When All The Slaves Are Free)" particularly the lyrics. What exactly is this song about? It seems to me to be a quasi love song/protest song but I'd love to hear some interpretations if you are so inclined. - - -Andrew --------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:06:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Passion Play Yeah, we've had some pretty good discussions about this one in the past, some parts of this song are pretty black and white in terms of their interpretation & others are real gray...anyway, here's my blow by blow fwiw: "Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming" the term Magdalene refers to a woman from the area of Magdala. This could be a reference to Mary Magdalene, or it could be a reference to the woman who was caught in the act of adultery and about to be stoned, and Jesus told the crowd that "whoever of you is without sin can cast the first stone", which of course dispersed the crowd and would have left the woman in awe as well as trembling. This was also a case where the Pharisees were trying to trip Jesus up & he foiled them. "I am up a sycamore Looking through the leaves A sinner of some position Who in the world can this heart healer be This magical physician" This is a reference to Zaccheus the tax collector, a small man who had to climb a sycamore tree to see Jesus as he passed. Jesus noticed him in the tree, called him down, had dinner with him, and so converted Zaccheus' spirit that he returned the monies he had conned people out of. "Enter the multitudes The walking wounded They come to this diver of the heart of the multitudes Thy kingdom come Thy will be done" This always reminds me of the scene in Jesus Christ Superstar where Jesus can hardly move for the people grabbing on to him, in search of healing for their disablility...but it could just be a simple reference to the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus preached to the multitudes and where he teaches the Lord's Prayer to the crowd (Matthew 6: 9-13). "Oh climb down climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest They think is light is squandered But he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered" This verse seems to simply state that the person singing the song is seeking the same direction and/or redemption as the biblical characters that Jesus interacted with in the beginnings of the song. I wouldn't go so far as saying that it's *Joni* stating this as she's not prone to so openly embrace Christianity. (Matter of fact, given her earlier musical references to Jesus & The Bible, this song has always stuck out like a sore thumb to me). "Oh all around the marketplace The buzzing of the flies The buzzing and the stinging Divinely barren And wickedly wise The killer nails are ringing" Divinely Barren - wickedly wise to me describes the Pharisees, the "holy men" who were threatened by Jesus power over the "slaves" who were doing the dirty work of the day, and were kept in place by the Pharisees enforcing of religion as law rather than love. The "killer nails" refer to the crucifixion of Jesus. OK, so that leaves us with the chorus, which to me is a bit more puzzling... "Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose" Could refer to the colors of the costumes of those in a modern-day passion play...could be equating the "slaves" of Jesus' day to the people who are employed in the gas & nuclear industries...could mean something else entirely! Then you get the 4-word chain: "Ecstasy - Misery - Apathy - Tragedy" Which for me breaks down Jesus' fulfillment of his mission on Earth...the early ecstasy of the miracles, healing, preachings, etc. with his ministry. The Misery of his capture & treatment (crown of thorns, etc) by Herod & the Romans, the Apathy of the crowd as they turned on Jesus and commanded that the prisoner Barrabas be set free and supported the crucifixion, and ending in the Tragedy of his death on the cross, killed not just out of the fear of the jealous leaders but also from those who betrayed him like Judas & Peter. "Now you tell me Who you gonna get to do the dirty work When all the slaves are free? (Who're you gonna get)" Again, this closing part of the song descibes the rationalization that drove the Pharisees to act as swiftly as they did, when they realized that the masses were being awakened and changed. That's my take on it....like I say, for what it's worth. Bob NP: The Bird Sisters, "Woodstock - ----------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:36:57 -0400 From: Subject: Re: A Case of Carolina (NJC) Hello Emiliano! Thank you and yes, ther are two movie theaters here in the campus. Right now they are showing Francois Ozon's _Swimming Pool_ (which is not as challenging and cerebrally disturbing as his previous ones (esp. _Criminal Lovers_ and _Sitcom_) but a sanitized Ozon is ultimately better than no Ozon at all. The other ones show _Winged Migration_ (which I watched in the Manila) -- but this film tries so hard to anthropomorhize geese...geez! The other one is _Owning Mahowny_ which has the indie cred written all over it, and stars Phillip Seymour Hoffman, so I might watch it on matinee (for a cheaper price). Strange but I guess what will count as "foreign" films now would be those homegrown films we have in the Philippines. I have to get used to that. Hope to see you soon, Emil. I have a friend from Seville who is also taking the same course I am taking: Media and Pop Culture. Joseph in CH Quoting Emiliano : > Hi, Joseph! > Nice to hear from you! > > I hope you'll find good movie theaters ( you know, with "foreign" > films) in > Chappel Hill! > > Make a Great way through Grad School, my friend! > > Yours: Emiliano > > NP: La Lupe: Puro teatro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:32:25 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: Can I burn it? njc Today I asked my co-worker about the CD. "Well, I can't listen to new music at work. It doesn't work as background music." When I went to lunch she had returned the CD in my Inbox with a brief "Thanks!". My guess is that she never tried it. I guess I ruined it for her when I said that OTR is made up of friends of friends so I'd rather she didn't burn it. Right? Like, what's the fun of trying something new if you can't steal it? I guess when people ask if they can burn a borrowed CD, I'm supposed to just say, "Sure". It's like when someone asks, "How are you?" the only appropriate answer is "Fine." Lama > From: Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu [mailto:jlamadoo@fuse.net] > "Cool," she said. "Can I burn it?" > > "Wow!" I said. "If you do, please don't *tell* me." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:34:45 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Psychic Sylvia Browne NJC What do people here think or know about Sylvia Browne? I don't recall any mention of her on the list, and with all the weighty topics being discussed, figured now's the time to ask. I saw her on an hour-long talk show a couple months ago and she seemed to have a genuine ability to know "unknowable" things about people (in this case, people calling in by phone). And she was so no-nonsense and precise and accurate in her observations (according to the callers) that I was glued to the tv. I just finished one of her books and if I hadn't seen her in action, would probably easily disregard what she says about fate, the "other side", forgiveness, "dark entities", the purpose of life and other mysteries -- my reaction would have been "hmmm, interesting, maybe so, maybe not." Now, I'm a little more curious about her view of things, and am wondering if anyone here has any thoughts about it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:35:51 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Beautiful Joni chords Hi all, I'm at work listening to the CD Court and Spark (isn't it great to be able to do?) very low of course. I'm listening to Help Me, and thinking about the post where someone mentioned that they loved the alternating chords of Heijera. I do too, but I absolutely adore the chord progressions in this song. It has such beautiful changes and flow between the chords. I have Synesthesia, so the colors flow very beautifully as I listen to them. I won't name my colors because everyone has different ones and for them, their colors are completely absolute. I've learned to appreciate the differences. The song makes me feel so free and carefree. the melody is so flirty free and honest. That's the best way I can describe the sensastion. When Joni sings, "Help me..." you get the feeling of falling and I think she purposed the melody to do so. I've studied theory a little bit. I've never had a chance to sit down and see what kind of chord progression are going on that make this song so special to me. If anyone wants to elaborate, I would absolutely love it! Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:06:30 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Passion Play Wow! Thanks to everyone who helped me with this question... Emiliano, Emi & Bill B. Bob's post especially made a lot of sense to me. I do briefly remember the 'Exxon Blue' discussion. I guess I was a little caught up at the time! It really is amazing how much thought Joni puts into her lyrics and on how many levels they work. I love this woman! Steve T NP: Cherokee Louise (TLOG) - Joni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:20:58 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Passion Play > Bob's post especially made a lot of sense to me. Me too! :~) I don't typically save posts, but as that question has popped up here a number of times, I decided to save my response so I wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel each time someone asked about Passion Play. It really is a beautiful song, both musically & lyrically and it's also very biblical. It remains my favorite song on NRH, although the title track, Cherokee Louise, Two Grey Rooms are constantly nipping at its heels. And as much as I think Joni's songs are open to a myriad of interpretations, to overlook the biblical imagery in Passion Play is to overlook the point of the song. Bob NP: Dinah Washington, "Willow Weep For Me" sing it honey! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:58:45 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: E: religion/Roy Moore - LONG and njc LOL, bob...!!! >I noticed that nobody questioned the one about me coveting my neighbor's ass! :~D Bob< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:58:45 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Passion Play Hi Bob, It has only been recently that I've noticed how beatiful 'Passion Play' is musicaly as well as lyricly. Most of 'Night Ride Home' in fact! I especially love the other songs you mentioned too! I would also add 'Come In From Cold' and even 'The Windfall' - Eveen though Joni's trying to get a serious point across I always end up laughing to this one! Steve NP: Carey - Joni > > Bob's post especially made a lot of sense to me. > > Me too! :~) > > I don't typically save posts, but as that question has popped > up here a number of times, I decided to save my response so I > wouldn't have to re-invent the wheel each time someone asked > about Passion Play. It really is a beautiful song, both musically > & lyrically and it's also very biblical. > > It remains my favorite song on NRH, although the title track, > Cherokee Louise, Two Grey Rooms are constantly nipping at its heels. > > And as much as I think Joni's songs are open to a myriad of > interpretations, to overlook the biblical imagery in Passion > Play is to overlook the point of the song. > > Bob > > NP: Dinah Washington, "Willow Weep For Me" sing it honey! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:23:41 +0000 From: "Sherelle Smith" Subject: Re: A case of Carolina SJC Dear Joseph, How wonderful that you've made it over here! I've finally caught up on my digests and was delighted to see that you are adjusting well to life in North Carolina. My daughter graduated from North Carolina A&T University nearby. Believe it or not, there are quite a few Joni CD's that I have not purchased yet. I did not purchase Travelogue or Both Sides Now. I've put them on my wish list. My most favorite recent Joni CD (recent meaning since I joined the group almost ten years ago) is Turbulent Indigo. I absolutely love almost every song on that CD. At any rate, I am so happy that you are here. You have been such a wonderful friend these past years! Love, Sherelle _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:57:12 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Passion Play, now NRH songs > I especially love the other songs you mentioned too! I would also add 'Come > In From Cold' and even 'The Windfall' - Even though Joni's > trying to get a > serious point across I always end up laughing to this one! Yeah, those 2 songs to me are strong lyrically, but musically there's not much there for me to hang my hat on. Come In From The Cold has the more accessible melody, but over the course of the long song it becomes a bit tedious, with the title line being repeated so much it dilutes some of the truly great lyrics in the song, like: "The world held promise For a slave to liberty Freely I slaved away for something better And I was bought and sold" A clever transition from her young dreams to her later reality; "And they hawk-eyed us from the sidelines Holding their rulers without a heart And so with just a touch of our fingers I could make our circuitry explode" This verse just brings up such specific pictures and conveys a feeling that is so strong, as does: "I feel your leg under the table Leaning into mine" Joni has such a good way of explaining a FEELING that we can all instantly identify with. Maybe if she had canned the "chorus" in the song ala "Song For Sharon" and just let it roll from verse to verse it would be less tedious for me. As for "The Windfall", you're right...you almost have to laugh to deal with the vitriol in there...as much as DED was an angry record, I don't know as Joni has ever written anything as incendiary as: "Oh I'm tangled in your lies Your scam Your spider web Spit spun between the trees Doors slam You want my head You'd eat your young alive For a jaguar in the drive" I just wish the song was more interesting musically...it's one of the songs where the melody is so inaccessible that the only way you can sing it is to sing ALONG with it. Bob, born "back in 1957..." NP: Weezer, "Take Control" ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #429 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)