From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #415 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, August 22 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 415 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- major 9ths njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: chord changes ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: very njc - looking at 2004 2.0 ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: That "institution" (njc) [tantra-apso ] Re: Premature babies (NJC) [tantra-apso ] magdalene sisters NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] RE: Fate NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Ruby Mary Neruda J. McBride NJC [Aerchak@aol.com] Shadows and Light (the book) [Deb Messling ] And another thing on Shadows and Light [Deb Messling ] David Sanborn - Man From Mars [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Shelly vs Nanette ["Jeffrey R Guss" ] Re: magdalene sisters NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: "help me" in starbucks ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Steely Dan concert njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: magdalene sisters NJC [Catherine McKay ] RE: Fate NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: magdalene sisters NJC ["c Karma" ] Re: That "institution" (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: That "institution" (njc) [Catherine McKay ] Re: major 9ths njc [Ken ] Re: That "institution" (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: That "institution" [Catherine McKay ] Re: major 9ths njc [Catherine McKay ] CHANGE IN DATE for Joni Open Mike in Ithaca, NY [Susan McNamara ] Re: That "institution" [Catherine McKay ] Re: That "institution" [tantra-apso ] Re: fate (NJC) ["StephenToogood" ] Re: fate (NJC) [Chris Marshall ] RE: major 9ths njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: The Magdalene Sisters [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder)] RE: fate (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: major 9ths njc [Ken ] Joni mention on NPR's "Day to Day" program [Deb Messling ] fate njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: The Magdalene Sisters [tantra-apso ] Chords (NJC) [Checked by NAI at US SMTP Gateway] ["Kay Ashley" ] Re: The Magdalene Sisters njc ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 04:19:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: major 9ths njc cath, a major 9th chord involves a major 7th too. for example, Cmaj9 = CEGBD. Csus2 is CDEG. kenny: there's a trick for major 9ths on the piano, but you have to use both hands. say you want to play Xmaj9: play Xmaj7 with your left hand and (X's third)min7 with your right hand. you get Xmaj9. for example: Cmaj9 = Cmaj7 + Em7 (E is a third above C) Gmaj9 = Gmaj7 + Bmin7 i have short fingers so i had to devise such tricks to pass for a pianist!!! incidentally, major 9ths on the guitar are a lot easier if you use alternate tunings. coyote's tuning allows you to do some wonderful major 9ths using only 3 fingers. wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 00:36:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: chord changes bob: >#1 Joni chord change - those first 2 chords in Hejira!< i love those 2 chords & amazing syncro as i was just fooling around with playing that song today...those 2 chords only appear in that part of the song & all other chords in hejira pale in comparison to them...as a songwriter & guitar player learning this song...i wish she'd used them more in the song...i want to play them more...i know, heresy... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 00:47:03 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: very njc - looking at 2004 2.0 lori>If you don't vote, don't complain. And for those who are all the time whining about [fill in the blank] being "un-American," I say the only thing that's un-American is not voting.< or keeping others from voting... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:14:49 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: That "institution" (njc) Catherine McKay wrote: > --- PassScribe@aol.com wrote: > > >> (I have >>two children that I am >>tremendously proud of, not because they're >>fabulously wealthy or CEO's of IBM or >>anything... but because they are good people.) >> >> Kenny-this is so refreshing. I rarely hear that from a parent. They usually boast of exam results or jobs. To read you atre proud of yours because they are good people is wonderful. They have a good parent. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:24:25 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Premature babies (NJC) Catherine McKay wrote: > --- tantra-apso wrote: > > > >> >> >I prefer to think of it as "fate" when something good >happens (it was "meant" to be) and "just bad shit" >when something bad happens (Shit happens). > >Sometimes fate is what you make it - if you want >something badly enough, you can make it happen (of >course, it would be hard to "want" John before you >knew him, wouldn't it, but maybe you wanted someone >like him and subconsciously... y'know magnet and iron, >the souls?) > I wanted someone like John for a long tiem, since I was old enough to think about it. At the time we met I was homeless, had been on the streets but at that precise time was sleeping on the setee of a family I ahd met thru a self help group. I had plannedto go to the cinema with pilar but she came home form work with a migraine. I decided, most unusually, to go out on my own. I met John. I didn't sleep on Pilars stee again. That was Tuesday, july 7th, 1981. Yes, i believe in love at first sight.... > Not that I believe too much in that but >when something cool like that happens, don't you just >want to look up at the sky and the stars and yell, >"THANK YOU!!" > most definately. I tend to give thanks everyday for the good things in my life. There has been an awful lot of bad, but I prefer to concentrate on being grateful for the good. It goes a long way to how one feels about things. I prefer to feel good. Gratitude and concentrating on the good things is part of being happy. > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > > - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:17:33 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: magdalene sisters NJC At FEst Les Ross sang Magdalene Laundries and it moved me to tears... the discussion on the list here has once again prompted me to emerge from lurkdom and here is something I wish to share with you in honour of a woman who touched my family life... Many years ago we had a wonderful Irish spinster who helped my mother with household tasks a few days a week. She was called Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride and always always always used her full name when she signed anything and was extremely good at her work. She was a devoted attendee at the Catholic church and said prayers for all her "sisters" with whom she had lived for so long. She would recite her prayers as the ironing piled up in crisp and immaculate towers. Things would be starched to within a nanomicrometer of flexibility and every single tiny crease would be erradicated. She would then burst into floods of tears at the end of the ironing and thank my mother for the opportunity to "carry on her good work in memory of her sisters" One day Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride sat down and told her story to my mother. She had been one of 14 daughters of a woman whose husband deserted the family in rural Ireland. He left one night and never came back. The mother took in a male lodger to help pay the rent. Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride was 14 and the lodger was a predator. When she complained in confession to the priest that the man was bothering her she was offered a chance to "escape the temptations of your flesh" and along with her 5 older sisters they were "found good work" in the Magdalene Launderies. For the next 30 years she laundered and ironed and bleached and prayed and saw her real and spiritual sisters fade from young women to worn rags only to be released on surrendering their pay as a means of escape. Where no male relative was available to come and claim them the girls stayed there.... Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride used up her life in this way and escaped by paying all her wages to the church that had incarcerated her in the place. She had self harm marks on her arms and red, raw hands always. By the time she left the laundry her mother was dead, so were a number of her sisters. A male cousin was traced and he took her in and found her work as a housekeeper and seamstress and she moved with that family to England and then to the south coast. ON retirement she was taken into a sheltered home but was allowed to find work, hence she helped us a few hours a week. Her name was the one thing she kept for all those years. That, and her unshakeable faith in the good of the church, despite all that had happened to her, were what she took to her grave. She died a virgin spinster. She showed me how to iron and it is a chore I loathe... but every now and again I take the iron in my hand and try to do the piles well and neatly as I was taught.... and I think of Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride... and her sisters........... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:33:41 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: RE: Fate NJC Victor wrote on........ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 00:20:05 -0700 in response to WAlly (oh i have lost track) but here is the post below... > are we fated to be who we are and be who we are with? this question has > haunted me all my life. it so boggles the mind. ! as > it is, i believe it was only fate and none of our individual designs that we > have to thank for (or curse) for our relationship. > but it does boggle the mind. > wally It does indeed. This very question continues to boggle my mind. Victor My reponse to this is that we make the relationships we make at the time we make them for all sorts of things that are operating in our lives at that point. If they fail we need to learn from that and change those things and not seek them again in the future. And if we find they are sitting there again take evasive action. I hesitate to write this but I seem to finally have found someone rather wonderful who is in tune with me and me with him. I have searched and been out there looking but this one came towards me and whilst at Joni fest we missed each other dreadfully and when he met me from the airport it felt like my soul had found a home... Yes we met through a dating thing on the net so were looking but thought we would probably just be friends.. but it is a lot stronger than that and we are talking about futures. WE are all agents of our own lives. It is too easy to be a victim of "thigs people did to us" as though we are always passive in what happens. Life is about interaction and if you find your life is not about that then one needs to adjust that and take some control and responsibility for why we end up where we are. I have given up being "USEFUL" because it stops me being lonely. I have given up taking crumbs from others tables but now provide the table and all are welcome to come and eat, I have opened up my closed state and let some light back in. And you, my dear friends on the JMDL have been a huge part of that process. A vast part actually. The sharing of things, the arguing the sheer fun and repartee have opened me up. At Fest I asked Les Irvine did he realise the impact that the JMDL had on so many lives? ... I thank him from the bottom of my heart for giving us this chance to "meet " like this, and share and be.. and once a year those who can get together with others and this whole virtual community blossoms into something tangible. The hugs and happiness I recieved this year will sustain me for ever.. But I will be back next year for more and to revel in the emormous humanity of this place. Life is what we make it.. fate or no fate we have to live this life as we are all dead a long time. If we live our lives looking outwards to others, whilst caring for the person within us we can only be the best we can and grow in humanity and understanding. Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:42:47 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Ruby Mary Neruda J. McBride NJC This post brought tears to my eyes. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:05:56 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Shadows and Light (the book) Has anyone read the newer edition of Karen O'Brien's book? It was supposed to have additional material. What is the new stuff? Is there enough there to warrant a purchase? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:15:54 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: And another thing on Shadows and Light I'm surprised that Amazon has no customer reviews of this book. I'm not going to write one because my review would be lukewarm. Here's a link to the Amazon page (thanks Colin for telling us about this Tiny URL site). http://tinyurl.com/ktrf - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:38:07 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: David Sanborn - Man From Mars >A good cover year for Joni. Boy, I'd be pressed to say that Joni's ever had a BAD cover year! ;~) This Sanborn recording is pretty good and will be included on Volume #46 of our never-ending "Covers" series...but next up will be #44, as well as some other Joni goodies that you can snag, so don't touch that dial. Bob NP: Melissa Errico, "Night Ride Home" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:33:48 -0400 From: "Jeffrey R Guss" Subject: Shelly vs Nanette Nanette Fabray Joyful Humanitarian - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- As a mother and homemaker, a hard working humanitarian, or a knowledgeable individual testifying before Congressional committees for the rights of handicapped persons, comedienne, singer and dancer, Nanette Fabray has been honored many times by her peers and by the public. Nanette Fabray was herself handicapped for most of her adult life by a hearing problem, until four operations restored her hearing. She has been in the forefront of the rights of all disabled people. Her many official, private and governmental memberships and appointments, including being a Trustee of the House Ear Institute, note Miss Fabray as an international leader for the handicapped. Shelley Fabares Biographical Information Shelley Fabares Birthday: January 19, 1944 Birth Place: Santa Monica, CA Birth Name: Michele Ann Marie Fabares Notes She did an interview with Vicki Lawrence when she guest starred in the syndicated show "Vicki" She is married to actor Mike Farrell She co-starred in the movie "Ride The Wild Surf" for Columbia Pictures She sang the song "Johnny Angel" and had a record of the song when she was in "The Donna Reed Show." Incidentally, the song went to #1 for two weeks and was knocked out of first place by future co-star Elvis's "Good Luck Charm" She co starred with Elvis Presley in 3 movies: Girl Happy (1965), Spinout (1966), and Clambake (1967). More than any other leading lady in an Elvis movie She is the niece of Nanette Fabray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:27:32 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: magdalene sisters NJC In a message dated 8/22/03 5:19:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lulu.hone@virgin.net writes: > She showed me how to iron and it is a chore I loathe... but every now and > again I take the iron in my hand and try to do the piles well and neatly as > I > was taught.... and I think of Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride... and her > sisters........... > That is such a painful yet beautiful story Lucy, thanks for ringing the bells... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:39:07 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: "help me" in starbucks This got me to thinking for I haven't really cared for the Nelson tune either but as I compared the lyrics, inside my head, of the two tunes mentioned here, the Nelson tune held up very well and even surpassed those to the Mitchell tune. Just my take. mack > SIQUOMB, isn't she? > > I heard "Help Me" in the local Starbucks tonight -- or should I say *one* of > the local Starbucks -- and it sounded fresh as a proverbial daisy. It played > right after "You Were Always on My Mind" by Willie Nelson, during which I was > dry-heaving. I was thinking about how odd it was that a song I once liked okay > sounded so unbearably sappy and then, as if to illustrate Joni's superiority, > God made "HM" the next song. > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:43:45 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Steely Dan concert njc I always thought they should have used Tony to play the part of the singer in Susann's 'valley of the dolls.' Wasn't he the one married to Jennifer? mack > > My three favorite artists have always been Joni, Tony Bennett and > Steely Dan, (the "Beatles" of the 70's). I first heard Joni in a serious way > in fall of 1975 in my senior year of college so I was a latecomer to Joni > for my age. I had been listening to Tony since birth because my old man > loved him. When I was in college, none of my classmates even knew who Tony > was, even though he had been huge during the fifties and early sixties. They > used to think I was strange for going off and listening to my Tony and Frank > Sinatra albums while everyone else was into other stuff at the time. But > once you listen to Tony singing that classic American music you get hooked - > and his piano player Ralph Sharon is amazing. > > Steely Dan was fabulous Sunday night in NJ. Donald Fagen's genius ( and > I suppose Walter Becker as well) is equal to Joni's, but of course is > expressed in a different style. If you get a chance to see SD don't miss it. > This is the third time I have seen them at the Garden State Arts Center - > unfortunately I have only seen Joni once, in 1983 at the Mann in Philly. > ciao, dave. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: magdalene sisters NJC --- Lucy Hone wrote: > > Many years ago we had a wonderful Irish spinster who > helped my mother with > household tasks a few days a week. She was called > Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride > and always always always used her full name when she > signed anything and was > extremely good at her work. Lucy, what a terrible, beautiful, sad freakin' story. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:03:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Fate NJC --- Lucy Hone wrote: > Life is what we make it.. fate or no fate we > have to live this life as > we are all dead a long time. If we live our lives > looking outwards to others, > whilst caring for the person within us we can only > be the best we can and grow > in humanity and understanding. Well said, Lucy - I'm so happy for you that you've (I hope) found that someone special. I hope he treats you like the Queen you are! (NO - not that kind of Queen!) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:14:25 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: Re: magdalene sisters NJC Lucy, Thank you for sharing this. May Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride rest in peace and may no person have their vitality and potential stolen by others in the name of God. CC >From: "Lucy Hone" >To: ,, >Subject: magdalene sisters NJC >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:17:33 +0100 > >At FEst Les Ross sang Magdalene Laundries and it moved me to tears... the >discussion on the list here has once again prompted me to emerge from >lurkdom and here is something I wish to share with you in honour of a woman >who touched my family life... > >Many years ago we had a wonderful Irish spinster who helped my mother with >household tasks a few days a week. She was called Ruby Mary Neruda J >McBride and always always always used her full name when she signed >anything and was extremely good at her work. She was a devoted attendee at >the Catholic church and said prayers for all her "sisters" with whom she >had lived for so long. > >She would recite her prayers as the ironing piled up in crisp and >immaculate towers. Things would be starched to within a nanomicrometer of >flexibility and every single tiny crease would be erradicated. She would >then burst into floods of tears at the end of the ironing and thank my >mother for the opportunity to "carry on her good work in memory of her >sisters" > >One day Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride sat down and told her story to my >mother. She had been one of 14 daughters of a woman whose husband deserted >the family in rural Ireland. He left one night and never came back. The >mother took in a male lodger to help pay the rent. Ruby Mary Neruda J >McBride was 14 and the lodger was a predator. When she complained in >confession to the priest that the man was bothering her she was offered a >chance to "escape the temptations of your flesh" and along with her 5 older >sisters they were "found good work" in the Magdalene Launderies. > >For the next 30 years she laundered and ironed and bleached and prayed and >saw her real and spiritual sisters fade from young women to worn rags only >to be released on surrendering their pay as a means of escape. Where no >male relative was available to come and claim them the girls stayed >there.... > >Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride used up her life in this way and escaped by >paying all her wages to the church that had incarcerated her in the place. >She had self harm marks on her arms and red, raw hands always. By the time >she left the laundry her mother was dead, so were a number of her sisters. >A male cousin was traced and he took her in and found her work as a >housekeeper and seamstress and she moved with that family to England and >then to the south coast. ON retirement she was taken into a sheltered home >but was allowed to find work, hence she helped us a few hours a week. > >Her name was the one thing she kept for all those years. That, and her >unshakeable faith in the good of the church, despite all that had happened >to her, were what she took to her grave. She died a virgin spinster. > >She showed me how to iron and it is a chore I loathe... but every now and >again I take the iron in my hand and try to do the piles well and neatly as >I was taught.... and I think of Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride... and her >sisters........... > >Lucy > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:16:41 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: That "institution" (njc) Catherine writes: << To conclude with the words of Joni: "Love takes so much courage; love takes so much shit!" (True, isn't it?) >> Yes, but she also said "love sucks." --Bob, ever the ray of sunshine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:21:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: That "institution" (njc) --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << To conclude with the words of Joni: "Love takes > so > much courage; love takes so much shit!" (True, isn't > it?) >> > > Yes, but she also said "love sucks." > > --Bob, ever the ray of sunshine It's always good to get your balanced perspective on things, Mr Murphy. (Did Joni really say "love sucks", by the way? In what song?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:31:41 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: major 9ths njc Interesting. One of my favorite chords also. In my Guitar Chord Dictionary the chord you call Cmaj9 is called Cmaj7(add9). The funny thing I always found it more logical to call this chord a maj9. So which is right? By the way and one of my fav voicings of it in regular tuning is 320232 It looks like a G and D chord mixed together. Ken Wally Kairuz wrote: >cath, >a major 9th chord involves a major 7th too. for example, Cmaj9 = CEGBD. >Csus2 is CDEG. > >kenny: there's a trick for major 9ths on the piano, but you have to use both >hands. say you want to play Xmaj9: play Xmaj7 with your left hand and (X's >third)min7 with your right hand. you get Xmaj9. for example: >Cmaj9 = Cmaj7 + Em7 (E is a third above C) >Gmaj9 = Gmaj7 + Bmin7 > >i have short fingers so i had to devise such tricks to pass for a pianist!!! > >incidentally, major 9ths on the guitar are a lot easier if you use alternate >tunings. coyote's tuning allows you to do some wonderful major 9ths using >only 3 fingers. >wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:27:28 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: That "institution" (njc) Catherine writes: << (Did Joni really say "love sucks", by the way? In what song?) >> Yes, she did. I am sure someone will jump in with the song, although I am cheating a bit. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:42:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: That "institution" --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << (Did Joni really say "love sucks", > by the way? In what song?) >> > > Yes, she did. I am sure someone will jump in with > the song, although I am > cheating a bit. > You bum! Are you referring to the line "... until love sucks me back that way?" Not exactly the same thing as "Love sucks", is it? btw, apparently this is no longer njc - how strange - it usually goes the other way. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:43:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: major 9ths njc --- Ken wrote: > Interesting. One of my favorite chords also. > In my Guitar Chord Dictionary the chord you call > Cmaj9 is called > Cmaj7(add9). > The funny thing I always found it more logical to > call this chord a maj9. > > So which is right? > > By the way and one of my fav voicings of it in > regular tuning is > > 320232 It looks like a G and D chord mixed together. > Are you one of those people with extra fingers? How do you play that? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:45:18 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: CHANGE IN DATE for Joni Open Mike in Ithaca, NY Thought I would alert you that there has been a change in the date of the Ithaca, NY Joni Open Mike hosted by Patti Witten: Thursday, October 2 Hosting the ONLY JONI OPEN MIC @ Juna's Cafe , 8-11PM, Ithaca NY. Sign up @ 7:15PM to play a Joni Mitchell song. $3 cover. go to www.pattiwitten.com for other gig info on patti. I'll be there with a crazy B tuning set. take care, sue - -- "Heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ... " - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 10:59:18 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: That "institution" Catherine writes: << You bum! Are you referring to the line "... until love sucks me back that way?" >> Yes! (Evil laugh) << Not exactly the same thing as "Love sucks", is it? >> No, but she said it! Have a great weekend, everybody. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:07:53 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Ruby Mary Neruda J. McBride NJC Andrea wrote: > This post brought tears to my eyes. I got a little misty too. Thanks Lucy for sharing a sad, but wonderful story. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:35:11 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: And another thing on Shadows and Light Deb Messling wrote: > I'm surprised that Amazon has no customer reviews of this book. I'm > not going to write one because my review would be lukewarm. > > Here's a link to the Amazon page (thanks Colin for telling us about > this Tiny URL site). > > http://tinyurl.com/ktrf > - ---- I'm sure this has been discussed before so I apologize in advance, but does anyone have anything to say about the 'Joni Mitchell Anthology' song book that Amazon is pushing with Shadows and Light at this URL? I recently acquired a Yamaha keyboard and am looking around for piano sheet music. I never had a piano growing up but always wanted one. So I am pretty much a beginner. I read music and I know where the notes are on the keyboard but never having been able to practice regularly, I struggle getting through very simple stuff. Does this book have haflway decent arrangements that you don't have to be Roberto Holliston to be able to struggle through? Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:41:37 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: magdalene sisters NJC >> She showed me how to iron and it is a chore I loathe... but every >> now and again I take the iron in my hand and try to do the piles >> well and neatly as I >> was taught.... and I think of Ruby Mary Neruda J McBride... and her >> sisters........... >> > > That is such a painful yet beautiful story Lucy, thanks for ringing > the bells... Yes, Lucy, thanks so much for sharing this. It's great to be able to read an account from someone who actually knew one of these women. It's like being directly connected to history. We can all say 'we know someone who actually knew one of the Magdalenes'. It somehow brings it all home in a very real way. Long live the JMDL! Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:47:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: That "institution" --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << You bum! Are you referring to the line "... until > love > sucks me back that way?" >> > > Yes! (Evil laugh) > > << Not exactly the same thing as > "Love sucks", is it? >> > > No, but she said it! Talk about being quoted out of context - are you a political writer by trade, by any chance? :] ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:17:32 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: That "institution" Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > >Have a great weekend, everybody. > > --Bob > > > do you get weekend home leave, Bob? - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:03:52 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: fate (NJC) Yes I think about this a lot. Not just about relationships but it's like I will really try hard at something and achieve nothing and some things will just come along without any effort. Of course the thing I've been trying really hard to achieve will be achieved when I'm not even trying and when I least expect. Confused? Tell me about it! I think there are a lot of factors. It's amazing what time can do! I do think that it is important to think about the present more than the past and the future though you can't help but wonder! Steve T NP: 'In Liverpool' - Suzanne Vega - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Kairuz" To: "tantra-apso" ; "Chris Marshall" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 3:25 AM Subject: fate (NJC) > are we fated to be who we are and be who we are with? this question has > haunted me all my life. it so boggles the mind. look at this situation. > for the last year and a half i have been in an off and on relationship with > alberto. he was born in 1947 and he lived all his life about 20 blocks away > from where i lived when i was younger. he married and had 4 children and all > this time we might have met (and indeed we MAY have met) at the grocery > store, at the movies, at church, etc.. if he had seen me at that time he > would have rejected my advances because he was straight, he had a family, > etc.. a million reasons. however, to the best of our knowledge we MET in > april 2001. we met in a completely different environment, neighborhood, age. > he had separated from his wife and turned gay 8 years before. > if i had fallen in love with him 20, 15, even 8 and a half years ago, i > would have suffered tremendously because he wasn't even gay at that time! as > it is, i believe it was only fate and none of our individual designs that we > have to thank for (or curse) for our relationship. > but it does boggle the mind. > wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:58:17 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: fate (NJC) On Friday, August 22, 2003, at 07:03 PM, StephenToogood wrote: > I do think that it is important to think about the present more than > the > past and the future though you can't help but wonder! However, our past *is* important: the experiences we have, and the analysis of those, helps shape who we are now and how we behave in the future (which, agreed, is a very cloudy thing, as far as I'm concerned, especially with the benefit of my 20s under my belt to teach me that you never quite know how things will turn out). This goes back to the premature babies thread from which this one sprang: one guy on there, born in 1977 I think, ended up in a state where he had no memories of his past - including the very recent past like earlier that day or just a few minutes beforehand. I simply cannot imagine what it must be like to not have that wealth of information available with which to inform future decisions. Hopefully though, he recently discovered that memories associated with *strong* emotions - in his case, falling in love - do stick around, so some of the more important things in his life are memorable for him. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:44:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: major 9ths njc oh yes, ken! i remember that chord shape! one of the first *daring* chords i learned when i was first trying to play carole king's "so far away". thanks for the information. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Ken [mailto:slarty@sympatico.ca] > Enviado el: Viernes, 22 de Agosto de 2003 11:32 a.m. > Para: Wally Kairuz > CC: PassScribe@aol.com; anima_rising@yahoo.ca; joni@smoe.org > Asunto: Re: major 9ths njc > By the way and one of my fav voicings of it in regular tuning is > > 320232 It looks like a G and D chord mixed together. > > Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:15 +0100 (BST) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters Mark wrote: It's hard for me to comprehend the whole system and way of thinking that produced these hell-holes. There is so much that is screwed up about it and where do you lay the blame for it? With the Catholic Church? The Irish government? The families of these poor unfortunate women? The local church officials? Melanie has lived in Ireland and she says it's all of the above and more. One thing that struck me was that, like most of recorded history, it was the women who were victimised; the women who were accused; the women who were sullied and had to be 'cleansed'. It seems to me that when a woman gets pregnant or is raped or is considered sexually provocative that there is a man or men involved in these particular 'sins' as well. Where were the work houses for the men who conceived those children or committed the rape or lusted after some poor girl who had the bad fortune to be born with physical attributes that made her sexually desirable?" Mark - There were industrial schools run by Christian brothers and others who abused and tortured boys/young men in their care, as well as girls - though not (as far as I am aware) for fathering children. At present in Ireland, the Laffoy Commission is a statutory enquiry into child abuse ( www.childabusecommission.ie ) and the Residential Institutions Redress Board is starting to award compensation for those who suffered in the 'care' of many of these institutions( www.rirb.ie ).Those of us working with survivors know the immense damage caused and the continuing anguish of those awaiting their hearings. The Joni content of this email is that I am witness to the power of the Magdalene Laundries not just a song but as a poem. I printed it off the JMDL site and passed it on. I know that it now sits on the fridge door of a 70 year male survivor whom I have had the honour and privilege of knowing. Love Anita ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:09:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: fate (NJC) boy, do i know what you mean! the more you try, the less you get. then the moment you say "oh f*ck it!" everything starts to work out. well, call me a hippie thing form hell but i DO look at the planet transits and a lot of astrological stuff when things like that happen. i'm not talking about the horoscope in cosmopolitan but a lot of math and angles and knowledge of archetypes. astrology is not about fate but about the ebbs and flows of energy which seem to coincide with certain planetary position in a 12-sector map of one's life. i know it sounds so *middle-aged queen without a life* but i've been doing it for over 30 years and i wasn't middle aged when i started! when i think of what i can or can't achieve at a certain point in my life, i think in terms of seasons. there are many winters and springs in one single year and some seasons last much longer than three months. wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > StephenToogood > Enviado el: Viernes, 22 de Agosto de 2003 03:04 p.m. > Para: Joni List > Asunto: Re: fate (NJC) > > > Yes I think about this a lot. > Not just about relationships but it's like I will really try hard at > something and achieve nothing and some things will just come along without > any effort. > Of course the thing I've been trying really hard to achieve will > be achieved > when I'm not even trying and when I least expect. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:15:42 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: major 9ths njc Na just use the first finger to bar the 1st and third string on the 2nd fret. Another neat thing I sometimes do is tune the guitar to that chord. Very pretty stuff Tune the 2nd string up a semitone Tune the 4th string down a full tone Tune the 5th string down a semi tone Using that tuning try some of these chord shapes 102000 303000 557555 Thers lots more. Ken Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Ken wrote: > Interesting. >One of my favorite chords also. > >>In my Guitar Chord Dictionary the chord you call >>Cmaj9 is called >>Cmaj7(add9). >>The funny thing I always found it more logical to >>call this chord a maj9. >> >>So which is right? >> >> By the way and one of my fav voicings of it in >>regular tuning is >> >>320232 It looks like a G and D chord mixed together. >> > >Are you one of those people with extra fingers? How do >you play that? > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:20:34 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Joni mention on NPR's "Day to Day" program I heard the tail end of a review of The Magdalene Sisters today, and the program host acknowledged that Joni's song was what brought this issue to the attention of most Americans. The program closed with a snippet of the Joni/Chieftains version of the song. - ---------------------------------I ------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:42:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: major 9ths njc --- Ken wrote: > Na just use the first finger to bar the 1st and > third string on the 2nd > fret. > Another neat thing I sometimes do is tune the guitar > to that chord. > Very pretty stuff > > Tune the 2nd string up a semitone > Tune the 4th string down a full tone > Tune the 5th string down a semi tone > > Using that tuning try some of these chord shapes > > 102000 > 303000 > 557555 > > Thers lots more. > I'll give that a try but I really hate those barre chords! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:00:55 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: fate njc Fate. To this head and its way of thinking, it is the end result and where we will end, when we do, if we do. Our thoughts and actions might sway it but that is encapsulated within it. Listening to Candi Staton. Don't know how many here are familiar with her. Classic case of major talent misused but on 'young heart run free' they got it right. Incomparable. ooooh, as she says in 'what a feeling.' The particular tune I am listening to is 'destiny' and that made me think of the fate thread. Is there a difference, fate and destiny? Interesting pondering material for this mind. mack np-candi staton-'what a feeling' Have you ever been in love, then listen to this tune? I don't mean the love you might have settled for or the love that has grown convenient. I mean the one, the one, THE ONE. aaaahhhh. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 23:13:11 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters Anita Gabrielle Tedder wrote: >Those of us working >with survivors know the immense damage caused and the continuing anguish >of those awaiting their hearings. > It is good to have these hearings and make people answerable. It makes the far larger number of us who suffered the same but in the institute of the family, feel there is some justice that rubs off on us, that our story is at least partly heard. - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:23:43 -0400 From: "Kay Ashley" Subject: Chords (NJC) [Checked by NAI at US SMTP Gateway] >>>Wow! I'm just getting into chords big time with my piano lessons. Major 9th's; I think those are VERY hard to play on piano as it's SUCH a span... you need big hands or long fingers. Is it easier on guitar? Kenny B ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A 9th chord in root position is hard to play, but most of the time you would not play it that way. Try this, in the Key of C: Middle C-D (use your thumb to cover both keys)-G-B natural. Voila -- you just put the 9 in between the 1st and 3rd scale degrees, making it a 2nd, which technically it is. This particular chord spelling is missing the 3rd scale degree -- the E -- but that's actually OK, as the B natural also gives the chord the major quality (in most cases, it's the 3rd scale degree which determines chord quality). Or you can try other inversions. Try E (just above middle C)-G-C-D. This chord is missing the 7th (B), but you have your E giving the major quality. Or you can throw the B in there and make a cluster of B-C-D at the top end of the chord. Play around with moving notes and trying different voicings. There's always more than one way to play a chord, and there's usually more than one way to categorize the chord when you start getting into jazz extensions. Good luck trying to get a room full of jazzers to agree on chord notation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 00:27:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: owning your favorite chords/language njc I'm not even sure what the difference is between a 9th and a 2nd, unless it's that a 9th is always an octave plus one note above the root (or an octave above the 2nd). I get a bit confused about it once it goes past a 7th. Also I'm not clear on whether or not you have to play the entire triad PLUS the other note (a 7th for example), or whether you can cheat a bit by getting rid of one of the notes. For example, an Am7 (A-minor-7th) chord in first position, standard tuning, on a guitar can be played: EADGBE ||||x| ------ ||x||| ------ with two fingers only, one on the first fret, B-string (a C), and the other on the 2nd fret, D-string (an E), so with the open chords as well, you've got: EAEGCE (ACE are the triad, G is the 7th) or you can play it like this: EADGBE ||||x| ------ ||xx|| ------ |||||X ------ Here you have to use 4 fingers, one on the first fret, B-string, one each on 2nd fret D and G, and one on third fret high E string. So this chord is: EAEACG (ACE for the triad of Am, G for the 7th - but this G is the highest note, so it is really a 7th? or is it a 15th?) The guitar books call both of them Am7 and they sound kind of the same, but not really. The first one is more plaintive sounding to me and the 2nd one is more like a rollicking blues sound - but what do I know? It's all in how you hear these things. ===== Catherine Toronto ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think that the reason for the different sounds of these 2 chords is that the first spelling emphasizes the 7th -- it's right in the middle of the chord, plus the preponderence of E's in that chord emphasize the minor relationship between E and G (E to G is a minor 3rd), thus reinforcing the plaintive sound. The second chord is voiced in a more modal way, although it is not a modal chord, since the 3rd scale degree (C natural) is present. However, you have 2 perfect 4ths stacked on the lower strings (with the powerful perfect 5th in between), and that would naturally create a fatter, more open sound on the bottom, which may be why you hear it as more bluesy. Voicings make all the difference, on both piano and guitar (in fact on any instrument that allows for chords)! It's all in how the frequencies interact, and a chord with a G in the middle or a G on the top is a completely different suite of vibrations, even though on paper the chord gets categorized the same way. With that being said, jazz notation can get quite byzantine with such things like Am7add11 over B, whatever... complex notations that tell you what bass note a chord falls over help to determine voicings and help communicate a composer's intentions more clearly. Or you can just write down every bloody note the way classical peeps do. ;-) Fun stuff! :-) Kay Kay Ashley Desktop Publisher Willis of New York, Inc. 7 Hanover Square New York, NY 10004-2594 tel: 212-837-0682 fax: 212-509-6487 kay.ashley@willis.com _____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:57:43 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: fate (NJC) > This goes back to the premature babies thread from which this > one sprang: one guy on there, born in 1977 I think, ended up in > a state where he had no memories of his past - including the > very recent past like earlier that day or just a few minutes > beforehand. This makes me think of the movie 'Memento'. I'm sure a lot of you saw it and we probably even talked about it. The movie sort of moves backward chronologically. The main character is afflicted with this condition where he has no short term memory. As the movie progresses, it takes you back one step further in the story. You eventually find out that nothing in the guy's present reality is exactly what it seemed in the beginning of the movie. Very interesting film Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:06:19 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters njc tantra-apso wrote: > Anita Gabrielle Tedder wrote: > >> Those of us working >> with survivors know the immense damage caused and the continuing >> anguish of those awaiting their hearings. >> > It is good to have these hearings and make people answerable. It makes > the far larger number of us who suffered the same but in the institute > of the family, feel there is some justice that rubs off on us, that > our story is at least partly heard. Thanks so much for this info, Anita and thank you Colin for your as always to the point commentary. I do remember seeing a program about orphan boys being shipped off to Australia from the UK during WWII. People had left them in the care of church run institutions, thinking it was only temporary and when they went back to get them, found that their children were gone. If I remember right, these parents, mostly single mothers, were lied to about the boys' whereabouts, either having been told that they had been adopted by other families overseas or were dead. If someone else knows anything about this, please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, these boys were sent to monasteries in Australia where, surprise, surprise, they were worked like slaves and abused. Some of them eventually found their parents when they were middle-aged people and pieced together the truth about what had happened to them. I certainly didn't mean to imply that males have been excluded from systematic abuse. My point was that, in case of the Magdalenes, the women were the ones who were punished, not the men. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #415 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)