From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #413 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, August 21 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 413 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: chord changes ["hell" ] Re: Nanette Fabray njc ["David Rahall" ] shelly fabares and the donna reed show [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: (NJC) what? [Susan Guzzi ] RE: the aol mystery solved!!! njc (not -- still a mystery why anyone is on aol...) [Susan Guzzi ] Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sad news and coming together as a community [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Re: chord changes [Catherine McKay ] Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings [Catherine McKay ] Re: (NJC) what? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] Baseball and "The Circle Game" (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Jonifest and thanks (njc) ["Bree Mcdonough" ] RE: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale NJC ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: the aol mystery solved!!! njc - about s*bscribing ["Lori Fye" ] Re: the aol mystery solved!!! njc - about s*bscribing ["Lori Fye" ] Alan Watts(NJC) ["anon anon" ] Re: very njc - looking at 2004 2.0 ["Lori Fye" ] joni/king/bach/ravel ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Premature babies (NJC) [tantra-apso ] Man from Mars - David Sanborn [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: The Magdalene Sisters ["Mark or Travis" ] fate (NJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] "help me" in starbucks [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: (NJC) what? [Michael Paz ] Re: shelly fabares njc [Michael Paz ] Re: "help me" in starbucks [Rusty10113@aol.com] Re: Premature babies (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: (NJC) what? [Michael Paz ] Re: Premature babies (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:16:27 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: chord changes Kenny B wrote: > Bob, I've got to tell you, I get really hooked on certain chord changes. > My piano teacher and I had a big discussion on this subject one evening and > she says people have individual reactions to certain musical notes and chords > and everyone is a bit different in the combinations that most affect them. We > may share a love for the same chord but then you and I may differ on our > appreciation of others. I don't know if you'd class this as a "chord change" - probably not, in fact. But one of the reasons Two Grey Rooms is one of my favourite songs, is the harmonies and melody when she sings "with a view...." There's something really haunting about that one line, that seems to convey the whole emotion of the song with just those three words. She definitely IS SIQUOMB! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:16:27 -0400 From: "David Rahall" Subject: Re: Nanette Fabray njc She was a recurring guest on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show," too, wasn't she? David - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wally Kairuz" > i absolutely ADORE nanette fabray!!!!!!!!!!!!! she played oscar levant's > wife in the bandwagon with astaire and syd charisse. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:28:16 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: shelly fabares and the donna reed show Thank you. She was on the Donna Reed show. I knew it was one of those 60s family shows that didn't remotely resemble my family. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: (NJC) what? Paz wrote: JUST A FECKING MINUTE Guzzi. YOU my dear must be MUCH older than me, if I recall I played music over your sleeping body at JF2003 at Lez Cottage right after you asked ME to perform with Sugarpants and of course you have NO recollection of any of this right? Hey NOW! I had been up without sleep for two days and trying to handle my much younger girlfriend before leaving for fest - can YOU still handle a 21 year old?! Gimme a break Grand Pa! In fact - gimme a round of applause for taking that on baby! And another thing aren't you always conducting your business over sleeping bodies!? At your age you would be happy to have at anything that still moved on occassion. LMAO! Peace, Susan or ... Guzzi as everyone here seems to have slipped into calling me now! Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:07:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: the aol mystery solved!!! njc (not -- still a mystery why anyone is on aol...) Patrick - I could NOT agree more and am daily flabbergasted by the success of AOL! I don't know where they get off ... and really they still have trouble with java script or there would not always be two links ... one for AOL users and one for everybody else! They suck! A big me too Patrick - as Guzzi you know tends to keep her opinions to herself as well! Revolt! - I say against AOL! Viva la Revolution! Peace, Susan patrick leader wrote: aol is so freaking awful at controlling spam. they instituted a policy in december of trying to identify domains associated with sp*mmers; like most of their policies it was a total disaster, and like most large corporations, they absolutely can't admit that the policy causes more problems than it solves. aol would get screamed out of cyberspace if they blocked all yahoo messages. on the other hand, that might be a good thing; aol is a world-class piece of sh*t. patrick, once again keeping his opinions to himself ;-) Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:20:28 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: chord changes In a message dated 8/21/2003 6:16:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > But one of the reasons Two Grey Rooms is one of my favourite songs, > is the harmonies and melody when she sings "with a > view...." Yes, isn't that a great musical phrase? I think it almost conjures up the joy & happiness the singer feels when he/she looks out the window and sees the person that he/she is infatuated with. It strikes me as a counter to the musical melancholia of the section that precede it. #1 Joni chord change - those first 2 chords in Hejira! Although now that I think about it, some of those chord runs in "Down To You" give it stiff competition. Bob NP: Waits, "Johnsburg, IL" 2/4/96 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:28:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Notaro@stpt.usf.edu Subject: My take on Beat of Black Wings The tune of the chorus is definitely that of the Shelley Fabares Johnny Angel (Joni, the first sampler!). She also then changes it to Charlie's Angels, a reference both to the huge hit of the time, and Charlie, nickname for the Viet Cong. All this is Joni's imagery at its brilliant finest, especially since the Shelley Fabares song harks back to a more innocent time when a young girl dreams of her soldier boyfriend: Johnny Angel, how I love him He's got something that I can't resist But he doesn't even know that I-I-I exist The juxtaposition of the two is the harsh reality which the Vietnam War brought to the world consciousness. Joni's description about meeting the soldier who inspired this song is worth a listen. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:56:19 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale For those that have asked where they can find the pictures of the different posters for sale, Les has now set up an order form for the 2003 Jonifest poster, including the Paypal link or the address to send a check once you fill out the form at the main page of the JMDL. Go to: www.jmdl.com The poster from 2003 is at the top of the page, and the link to Jack's prints is at the very bottom under "Help support the Joni Mitchell Internet Community." Hope that helps! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:01:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: owning your favorite chords/language njc --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > i am profoundly affected by some chords and > progressions. major 7th and > major 9th chords appear in all my songs. Wally, I'm crazy about major 7ths too. I'll put them in any song I can, just to get that crazy sound. I also love those weird minor chords - I'm awfully fond of minor 6ths and minor 7ths, as well as sus 2s and 4s - - if you can get a minor 6th or 7th and sus it, so much the better! > the same thing happened to me with the english > language. i fell in love with > english when i first paid attention to the vowel in > the word "WORD" as > spoken by julie andrews and later by karen > carpenter. i just HAD to POSSESS > that sound, so i started listening and repeating > until i could produce that > vowel sound in all its various forms both in the > british isles and in north > america. I also love language and that's why I've studied French (majored in it in university), German, Spanish and Italian (I will admit that I often get Spanish & Italian words mixed up these days because I don't get the change to use them much.) I love the way Bjork pronounces the word "heart". N.P. My son playing electric guitar - by golly, the kid is starting to sound like maybe he knows what he's doing - those guitar lessons may be paying off! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:03:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: chord changes > #1 Joni chord change - those first 2 chords in Hejira! > > Although now that I think about it, some of those chord runs in > "Down To You" give it stiff competition. > I love unusual chord changes...Hejira is an excellent choice, and I would extend that to include the third chord where the voice comes in. Two Grey Rooms, has some beautiful chords as well. I also love the chords in "Amelia", which is probably a major reason its one of my favorite songs. The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what makes her music so unique. Being as intangible as they are, I find it hard to discuss chords and changes as they seem to speak on a much deeper level than words can. Perhaps that is why music seems so genuine and otherworldly and politicians are rather suspect and duplicitous. "If songs were lines in a conversation, The situation would be fine." Nick Drake Victor NP: The Neal Boortz Show Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:06:57 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings In a message dated 8/21/2003 8:28:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Notaro@stpt.usf.edu writes: > since the Shelley Fabares song harks back to a more > innocent time when a young > girl dreams of > her soldier boyfriend: But Shelley's song isn't REALLY about longing for her soldier boyfriend, there's nothing lyrically that indicates that...BUT when that song was a hit (March 1962) The Shirelles were also enjoying their hit "Soldier Boy" so it's probably common to associate the 2 songs with each other. Question...how could Johnny Angel NOT KNOW that Shelley existed? She was quite a beauty; I remember having a tremendous crush on her, especially in those Elvis flicks. I agree that the textures that Joni weaves in BOBW (sorry Catherine) are wonderful and make the rest of the record pale in comparison. Bob NP: Waits, "Big Joe & Phantom 309" (2/4/96) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:10:05 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Sad news and coming together as a community Apologies to Joni-onlies, but I thought there might be a few of you that would want this info, so I did not mark it NJC. Many of you are aware that Mags lost her dear brother very unexpectedly at the beginning of this week. Several of you have asked what they can do to help support Mags and Brian at this extremely difficult time. The fact is, they could really use some help with the unexpected expense this has brought to them, especially in the way of airfare. If any of you would like to make a donation to help Brian and Mags, please send it to: Ashara Productions, LLC 40 Parsonage Lane Topsfield, MA 01983 USA or you can paypal the donation to this e-mail address. Thanks for being the wonderful, caring community that you are. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:19:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: chord changes --- Victor Johnson wrote: > > The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what > makes her music so > unique. Being as intangible as they are, I find it > hard to discuss chords > and changes as they seem to speak on a much deeper > level than words can. > Perhaps that is why music seems so genuine and > otherworldly and politicians > are rather suspect and duplicitous. If you know a lot about music theory (which I don't - I've only got rudimentary theory), you could probably discuss these chords and changes in ordinary language - - except that most people wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about anyway (LOL). When you try to express music in language, that makes it all kind of dry and removes that element of other-dimensionality that music seems to have. I'd rather listen to it than talk about it (although if I hear a "weird chord", I do want to know what makes it different.) In fact, you can't just talk about it anyway - if you take music theory, the teacher will talk about it, then play what s/he's talking about and try to explain it. Music seems to be more organic than mere speech - maybe one day the human race will communicate in musical form (and then we'll all get along - ha ha ha - - we'd be serenading one another all the time. And unfortunately I think you're right about the politicians. It's a lot easier to lie with words than with music. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:21:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: My take on Beat of Black Wings --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > I agree that the textures that Joni weaves in BOBW > (sorry Catherine) > are wonderful and make the rest of the record pale > in comparison. Just what we need - another BOB! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:23:37 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: chord changes In a message dated 8/21/2003 9:05:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what makes her music so > unique. I finished watching the Joni tribute in Toronto last night. When she sat down at the piano to play, she was talking (Joni TALK????) about when she wrote "Paprika Plains." She said she kept making up all these strange chords which sounded good, and THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A WRONG CHORD! So you're right Victor! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:27:50 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale Ashara, are the final numbers in on how much was raised for JoniMitchell.com? I know the raffle brought in close to $900, but how about the donations for attending the fest? Just curious, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:43:09 -0400 From: Dave Cuneo Subject: Steely Dan concert Ciao Joniphiles, My three favorite artists have always been Joni, Tony Bennett and Steely Dan, (the "Beatles" of the 70's). I first heard Joni in a serious way in fall of 1975 in my senior year of college so I was a latecomer to Joni for my age. I had been listening to Tony since birth because my old man loved him. When I was in college, none of my classmates even knew who Tony was, even though he had been huge during the fifties and early sixties. They used to think I was strange for going off and listening to my Tony and Frank Sinatra albums while everyone else was into other stuff at the time. But once you listen to Tony singing that classic American music you get hooked - and his piano player Ralph Sharon is amazing. Steely Dan was fabulous Sunday night in NJ. Donald Fagen's genius ( and I suppose Walter Becker as well) is equal to Joni's, but of course is expressed in a different style. If you get a chance to see SD don't miss it. This is the third time I have seen them at the Garden State Arts Center - unfortunately I have only seen Joni once, in 1983 at the Mann in Philly. ciao, dave. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:56:08 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: (NJC) what? "Free Range Eggs" Guzzi writes: << Susan or ... Guzzi as everyone here seems to have slipped into calling me now! >> Funny how that happens, huh? --Bob/Smurf ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:01:44 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale In a message dated 8/21/2003 9:27:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, FMY FL writes: > Ashara, are the final numbers in on how much was raised for > JoniMitchell.com? > I know the raffle brought in close to $900, but how about the donations for > attending the fest? > The total was over $2,200 for JoniMitchell.com. YAY US!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:12:16 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Baseball and "The Circle Game" (SJC) This article would be particularly interesting to Vince, Victor, Chuck in Toronto (if you're still arond), and any other baseball fans. Also to Nikki in Philadelphia. The writer uses Joni's song to *full circle* some of the Phillie players. http://story.theinsiders.com/a.z?s=228&p=2&c=170084 Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:28:32 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: Jonifest and thanks (njc) Glad you had a nice trip! Oh..I'm sure the candy was a melted mess..and you are too nice to tell me. And in this case............... it really is the thought that counts. ;-) Bree NP: Both sides CD that was in the welcome package ....Dinah Washington...Billie Holiday and many..many others. (WHo put this together? Bob you did sweet sixteen ..did you do this one too?) >Sorry to overpost tonight but I am catching up on everything after a long >birthday recovery - lol. Please keep the photos and reports coming in - >they >are wonderful! When I got back from my trip I found a wonderful package >from Marianne and Bree, all wrapped on the outside in STAS covering. >Inside >were my very own relics from the Fest, including a magic Joni stone >retrieved from Full Moon "Constant as a Northern Star," Bree's *incredible* >candies (which I am presently scarfing up) and a little pine cone. Thank >you so much - it was so sweet and thoughtful of you, two! > >Thanks again you all for the birthday wishes, too! > >Kakki _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:45:07 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: The Inside Story Of Joni Mitchell Amazon says that this book (another one by Stacy Luftig) is coming out this month... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0825672856/qid=1061482923/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/104-9140060-4554367?v=glance&s=books Maybe it's going to tell us who all of these songs are about! ;~) Bob NP: Ralph Towner/Gary Burton, "Some Other Time" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:04:57 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: The Magdalene Sisters I've been traveling on business much of the summer and finally landed back in New York after a jam packed trip to San Francisco. It sounds like JoniFest was a blast, again. Once the lights came back on and my project had a momentary respite, I ran to catch a screening of Peter Mullan's film, "The Magdalene Sisters." Of course, I'd read that it was about the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland as depicted in the song most of us are quite familiar with. If the film is showing in your area, please try to put it on your list. You won't be disappointed. It surprised me that I'd seen no mention of the film on the list prior. I went back and searched through jmdl.com to see if there had been discussion, but found none. Forgive me if discussion has occurred. The film is set in 1964, and principally involves the relationship among four women at the institution over a period of years. One is the victim of rape, one a new mother who is separated from her son (how very devastating for Joni, herself an estranged birth mother of the same era to view), one a flirtatious orphan, and the last an emotionally fragile victim of abuse. A bravura performance is given by Geraldine MeEwen (who, if not already cast as Dolores Umbrage in the fifth Harry Potter, I will eat an entire millinery shop) as Sister Bridget, the nun running the institution and its principal task master. The harrowing depiction of the conditions under which these women slaved under the fear of both their faith and physical abuse by the emotionally stunted caretakers was even more efficiently created by Joni's words. The film doesn't reference Joni's song, but instead credits inspiration to a documentary film, "Sex in a Cold Climate." A woman I spoke to after the screening who had grown up in Dublin during the same era had memories of her family sending laundry to "the nuns... who knew?" We traded remembrances on the crisply laundered habits worn by nuns back then and the scent (or odor, depending on your experience) of the soaps they used. She was also aware of The Chieftans' version of "The Magdalene Laundries" and was expecting to have heard the song on the soundtrack. Perhaps it would have been redundant to take four and a half minutes to distill what we'd seen over two hours? Has anyone else seen this film or the documentary on whicih it claims to be based? CC "Surely to God you'd think some bells should ring." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:47:19 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale NJC Hey! The raffle raised OVER $900 ($903 to be precise!)...lol!! x, Maggie -----Original Message----- From: FMYFL@aol.com [mailto:FMYFL@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 9:28 AM To: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com; NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni/Jonifest posters for sale Ashara, are the final numbers in on how much was raised for JoniMitchell.com? I know the raffle brought in close to $900, but how about the donations for attending the fest? Just curious, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:09:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Alison E Subject: Fest report NJC Hello all, well, i was just cruising through some of the pictures up on hatstand...thanks everyone for getting them up there. it's wonderful to be able to think back and revive the memories. so i was looking at the pics, and thinking damn! i need to post a report! ah, too busy, i'll do it later. and, no shit, joni comes on the radio singing "all i want" and now its a sign and i better post. so--here goes: i had a great time. thanks to everyone for welcoming my mom into our little freaky family so warmly; as you all saw, she fit quite nicely being the freak and freak breeder she is! she had a great time, i'm sure she'll post something about her experiences eventually. i don't know what else to say, except that i had a really great time again this year. thanks again to my intrepid travel partners michael, who could not be a better friend to me, and jack, who is a blessing to know. special thanks to chris marshall and stryngs for coming all that way--it was an honor to hear you guys together (amazing!) and to be able to meet martin and strings....ah, strings. what a woman. i's so fecking happy for the moments we got to hang and chat, good luck in australia. special thanks to the davids, mingus and rolls, who gave us a ride into the city so generously, all the way to the airport! i owe them so much! not to mention they are lovely and talented and kind men and i'm sorry about the deer! i hope your adventures in NYC weren't too crazy! thanks again, sincerely. thanks to all the friends i've known and love, those who made special efforts to come (jody, barbara, ron!)and everyone who crossed my path. i don't want to get into a name list, or anthing silly, cause you guys know i love you anyhow. thanks to everyone, and special thanks to ashara for all her efforts to get us all togther once again. love, alison np: richard thompson ps: notice my restraint in talking about the food?!? ;-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:15:38 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: the aol mystery solved!!! njc - about s*bscribing Wally asked: > now does anyone have ANY idea how to do the uns*b thing and the s*b > thing? i have NO CLUE. The quickest and easiest way I've found to s*bscribe is this: Send the following command in email to : subscribe You can also un*sub similarly, AND you can switch between versions of the list by doing something like this, within the SAME email: unsubscribe joni subscribe joni-digest Make sense? You can do all of the above by sending email to , but I find that using is a little more direct. Tons of info about our lovely list can always be found here: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni.info Happy reading!! Now as for why anyone would continue to use AOL and help to perpetuate the mass-media monopoly, AND pay $23.90 or more per month for the "privilege" (ever heard of netzero.net or juno.com? $9.95!! Or look at this FREE service: http://www.myfreei.com/indexGo.htm) ... Well, I guess I've just stated MY opinion! Lori, formerly an AOL user, now an AOL basher ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:34:33 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: the aol mystery solved!!! njc - about s*bscribing In a message dated 8/21/2003 2:16:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > Now as for why anyone would continue to use AOL and help to perpetuate > the mass-media monopoly, AND pay $23.90 or more per month Lori, I pay $9.95 per month with AOL, and I don't use it to perpetuate any monopoly. I like it and all the features it has. Geesh, you'd think I was shooting animals for the fur :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:46:16 +0100 From: "StephenToogood" Subject: Re: Joni chord changes I love the change in 'Barangrill' when she sings (I don't know the names): "show me the way... to Barangrill". It's so breathtaking. Well really I love all the chord changes in that song! I think it's suppose to sound a bit quirky to emphasize the sense of irony. I've noticed Joni always covers everything right down to the last detail. Joni's chord changes do make her music so unique. I remember reading something in 'Shadows & Light (my Bible!)' about Joni's tunings, and about her chord movements: The veteran British-born jazz pianist and percussionist Victor Fieldman - who had played on The Hissing Of Summer Lawns and Hejira and had worked with Klein - also came in. But this virtu- oso musician, writer of music textbooks, was struggling with Mitchell's idiosyncratic open tunings on one track, 'Moon At The Window'. Klein recalls Fieldman's unaccustomed discomfort: He was playing on this piece and just had this grimace on his face, and I remember Joni going out into the studio and saying, 'what's the matter, Victor?' She thought he didn't like the words because they were about a friend of hers who had become agoraphobic somewhat and was haunted by memories, and Victor was such an Englishman, such a happy man. So she said, 'Victor, do you not like the song?' and he said, 'No actually, I hate it!' What he meant was the way the chords moved was - and I explained this to her after the fact - so antithetical to the logic of Tin Pan Alley songwriting, which really formed the basis of what jazz theory was, that he just didn't know what to think about it. The way the chords moved was so strange to him that it just felt absolutely wrong. Joni was never conditioned from a theoretical standpoint by that Tin Pan Alley logic in regard to chord movement. She's not hemmed in by it at all and she moves the chords just in the way that they feel right to her. She was the James Joyce of guitar tunings. Steve T My new email address: amelio@sev47.fsnet.co.uk NP: 'Ladies Of The Canyon' - Joni - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine McKay" To: "Victor Johnson" ; "hell" ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:19 PM Subject: Re: chord changes > --- Victor Johnson wrote: > > > The chords Joni uses are a big part I think of what > > makes her music so > > unique. Being as intangible as they are, I find it > > hard to discuss chords > > and changes as they seem to speak on a much deeper > > level than words can. > > Perhaps that is why music seems so genuine and > > otherworldly and politicians > > are rather suspect and duplicitous. > > If you know a lot about music theory (which I don't - > I've only got rudimentary theory), you could probably > discuss these chords and changes in ordinary language > - except that most people wouldn't have a clue what > you were talking about anyway (LOL). When you try to > express music in language, that makes it all kind of > dry and removes that element of other-dimensionality > that music seems to have. I'd rather listen to it than > talk about it (although if I hear a "weird chord", I > do want to know what makes it different.) In fact, you > can't just talk about it anyway - if you take music > theory, the teacher will talk about it, then play what > s/he's talking about and try to explain it. > > Music seems to be more organic than mere speech - > maybe one day the human race will communicate in > musical form (and then we'll all get along - ha ha ha > - we'd be serenading one another all the time. > > And unfortunately I think you're right about the > politicians. It's a lot easier to lie with words than > with music. > > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:48:35 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: the aol mystery solved!!! njc - about s*bscribing > Lori, I pay $9.95 per month with AOL, and I don't use it to > perpetuate any monopoly. Certainly not on purpose you aren't, Jimmy. : ) > I like it and all the features it has. Geesh, you'd think I was > shooting animals for the fur :~) YOU? Nevah. Glad to hear you're paying only $9.95 per month, anyway. Hugz, Lori (now wondering if JMDL.com could offer internet access ... hmm ...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:19:56 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: shelly fabares njc I remember reading or hearing something in regards to Shelley and that record (and yea, this little fag had the 45 and really liked it). I can't remember exactly, it might have been Shelley herself, but the info was that they had to have her sing each little part of the song (I am sure there is a term for this but we musically challenged, instrumentally writing, don't know what it is)a piece at at time because she was so tone deaf. mack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:21:49 -0400 From: "anon anon" Subject: Alan Watts(NJC) I just bought this CD recently.I find it very comforting.It was released originally in 1967... http://www.messagedepot.com/pointsOM.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:02:11 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: very njc - looking at 2004 2.0 My take on all things presidentially political (and otherwise political) is simply this: VOTE. If you don't vote, don't complain. And for those who are all the time whining about [fill in the blank] being "un-American," I say the only thing that's un-American is not voting. Just my 2 cents. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:17:00 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Premature babies (NJC) I just spent a fascinating hour in front of the television having chanced across a program about premature babies. "Chance", it seems, is the operative word when it comes to premature births, but I actually hadn't realised just how dicey the statistics are until tonight. A few examples:- At least 30% of babies born eight weeks early have visual perception problems At 32 weeks or less (so about 8 months) the pathways in the brain are still forming One third of babies born weighing less than 4 pounds have some form of brain damage, and this can manifest itself in many potential ways. That said, the program highlighted cases where the brain can repair itself such that brain damage detected at birth actually turns out to have no perceptible effect in later life. 24 weeks is about the earliest a baby can be born with a reasonable chance of survival. I scribbled these notes down as the program was playing, so there's a chance I've missed a detail here or there, but you get the general feel. So why am I writing this? Well, I was born 12 weeks early, way back in 1971. I had counted myself lucky in many ways anyway, but it seems that I'm luckier than I thought, given the statistics. But for a twist of fate, or a hospital with poorer standards of care, or poorer equipment, things could be so very different. Or things could well not even *be* (now there's a deep philosophical spiral I shall not be descending down thankyou very much...) All in all though, fascinating, and very very thought provoking. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:04:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: joni/king/bach/ravel stephen, you've put it so precisely! i think that a popular music education should be based on the study of the music of carole king and that of joni mitchell. with king you learn all the conventions of pop, even a measure of "conventional inventiveness". after studying her music you can write pop very proficiently. she's the "bach period" that everybody must go through when studying composition. joni is the "ravel period", when one begins to deconstruct and later integrate all the traditional music education one's had. in joni's chord structures you find all those old friends but in entirely new clothes. snippets of pop chord progressions will show up now and then but in fragments and in totally unexpected contexts. get king and you'll get the beatles, the standards, etc.. get joni and you'll get all that with a new perspective plus the key to understanding all the rest. (disclaimer: i am NOT comparing the musicianship of bach and ravel with those of king and mitchell. i am drawing an analogy between bach's and ravel's places in a musician's education and the roles of king and mitchell in a pop musician's learning process.) wally > -----Mensaje original----- > De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de > StephenToogood > Enviado el: Jueves, 21 de Agosto de 2003 03:46 p.m. > Para: Joni List > Asunto: Re: Joni chord changes > > > She's not > hemmed in by it at all and she moves the chords just in > the way that they feel right to her. She was the James > Joyce of guitar tunings. > Steve T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 00:38:22 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Premature babies (NJC) Chris Marshall wrote: > I just spent a fascinating hour in front of the television > But for a twist of > fate, or a hospital with poorer standards of care, or > poorer equipment, things could be so very different. > Or things could well not even *be* (now there's a deep > philosophical spiral I shall not be descending down > thankyou very much...) > I saw the tail end of this, about the Gideon who showed masisve brain damage when born at 24 weeks but grew up normal. My mother, in 1934 was a 7 mth baby. If she hadn't made made, history would be very different! If's are very strange. Even what happens is very strange. I often have thought about it. I was born in 58, John in 47, i lived all over the world, john in the one place till he moved to London, I eventually found myself in London, and eventually we were in the same place at the same time, and 22 years later we are still married. When each of us was born, was it destined? I prefer notthink of myself as a fatalaist, that things are emant to be. because if I do, then I accpet that children are emant to be murdered, that people are meant to die horibly, that a child is meant to die of cancer, that a murderer is meant to be a murderer etc. I can't buy that, yet......it's all confusing. i DO think opportunites/situations present themselves(and maybe they are 'destined' or 'planned') and we make choices....tho that doesn't explain the awful stuff that happens like the child who dies of cancer. I saw the first episode of the 3rd series of SFU tonight too......now that series IS weird! - -- bw colin http://www.btinternet.com/~tantraapso/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:49:28 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Man from Mars - David Sanborn This may have been mentioned earlier, I may have missed it....but I learned today that David Sanborn covers Man from Mars on his new CD, Timegain. A good cover year for Joni. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:59:39 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Magdalene Sisters c> > Has anyone else seen this film or the documentary on whicih it claims > to be based? > > CC I saw it last weekend with my friend Melanie. A very powerful film. Fine performances from all of the actors and very well-done all the way around. One of the American televsion news magazine programs also did a piece on the laundries that I saw part of recently. It featured interviews with some of the women who had been incarcerated. They filmed a couple of them at the actual site of the laundry they had been imprisoned in. One of them wouldn't go any further than the front gate. She didn't want to get any closer. It's hard for me to comprehend the whole system and way of thinking that produced these hell-holes. There is so much that is screwed up about it and where do you lay the blame for it? With the Catholic Church? The Irish government? The families of these poor unfortunate women? The local church officials? Melanie has lived in Ireland and she says it's all of the above and more. One thing that struck me was that, like most of recorded history, it was the women who were victimized; the women who were accused; the women who were sullied and had to be 'cleansed'. It seems to me that when a woman gets pregnant or is raped or is considered sexually provocative that there is a man or men involved in these particular 'sins' as well. Where were the work houses for the men who conceived those children or committed the rape or lusted after some poor girl who had the bad fortune to be born with physical attributes that made her sexually desirable? But then the church is a patriarchy and part of the religion is founded on the principle of 'original sin' as committed by Eve in the Garden. And women have been paying for it ever since. That doesn't make it reasonable. That doesn't make it right. 'Wash my guilt of Eden Wash and balance me' Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:25:03 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: fate (NJC) are we fated to be who we are and be who we are with? this question has haunted me all my life. it so boggles the mind. look at this situation. for the last year and a half i have been in an off and on relationship with alberto. he was born in 1947 and he lived all his life about 20 blocks away from where i lived when i was younger. he married and had 4 children and all this time we might have met (and indeed we MAY have met) at the grocery store, at the movies, at church, etc.. if he had seen me at that time he would have rejected my advances because he was straight, he had a family, etc.. a million reasons. however, to the best of our knowledge we MET in april 2001. we met in a completely different environment, neighborhood, age. he had separated from his wife and turned gay 8 years before. if i had fallen in love with him 20, 15, even 8 and a half years ago, i would have suffered tremendously because he wasn't even gay at that time! as it is, i believe it was only fate and none of our individual designs that we have to thank for (or curse) for our relationship. but it does boggle the mind. wally ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:31:09 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: "help me" in starbucks SIQUOMB, isn't she? I heard "Help Me" in the local Starbucks tonight -- or should I say *one* of the local Starbucks -- and it sounded fresh as a proverbial daisy. It played right after "You Were Always on My Mind" by Willie Nelson, during which I was dry-heaving. I was thinking about how odd it was that a song I once liked okay sounded so unbearably sappy and then, as if to illustrate Joni's superiority, God made "HM" the next song. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:06:45 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: (NJC) what? LMFAO!!!! You got a deal! What part do you want to play?? CALL ME SOON!!! Love Paz > Fabio - no! > Pazio - si! ;-) > > I have the original Soupy Sales show on vinyl somewhere. That show was the > only thing I was ever addicted to since the Joni list. > > Let's do a White Fang and Black Tooth skit at the Honduran Jonifest!! Raa oo > raa oo raa! > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:10:43 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: shelly fabares njc Blissfully NOT! Altho I got attacked at work this pm with about 50 emails in a matter of minutes all with virus attachments. Feck IBM PC Clones/Bill Gates and Microsoft WITH the horse they road in on.. Paz > I wrote: > > << Not as impressive as the letter I got from Anias Nin, to be sure, but it > sure did drive my father >> > > batty! > > (I wasn't finished. I never hit SEND. I think I have a virus. Is there a Mac > virus out there?) > > --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:08:04 EDT From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: "help me" in starbucks Had to put in my two cents here, being a coffee freak and all! I've been working on a book the last month or so, in a lull in my freelance writing gigs here in New York, and my routine is to hit the Starbucks on my corner around 9 every morning, which I've done with reguarity. One of the bright spots is the incredible amount of Joni they play-- Help Me, Amelia, Coyote are on regular rotation, its like clockwork! I have tons of Joni on my laptop's iTunes, of course, but its great to hear the goddess filling up the big cafe space. Gotta say it's made for some very productive and enjoyable mornings this summer! All the best to everyone... Mitch ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:09:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Premature babies (NJC) --- Chris Marshall wrote: > I just spent a fascinating hour in front of the > television > having chanced across a program about premature > babies. > "Chance", it seems, is the operative word when it > comes > to premature births, but I actually hadn't realised > just > how dicey the statistics are until tonight. [...] > > So why am I writing this? Well, I was born 12 weeks > early, way back in 1971. I had counted myself lucky > in many ways anyway, but it seems that I'm luckier > than > I thought, given the statistics. But for a twist of > fate, or a hospital with poorer standards of care, > or > poorer equipment, things could be so very different. > Or things could well not even *be* (now there's a > deep > philosophical spiral I shall not be descending down > thankyou very much...) > > All in all though, fascinating, and very very > thought provoking. You're right. It is fascinating and thought-provoking, and possibly too scary to think about (much). When I had my son (who is now 13) there were a couple of other preggers women in the office, one of whose baby was due around the same time as mine, and another whose baby wasn't due for three months, or maybe more. Our babies were all born around the same time. Sanja want through hell with her little guy. So many times he was supposed to die - but he didn't. He was on tube-feeding through a hole in his belly for the longest time, and needed a brain shunt and all kinds of surgeries and treatments that are almost unthinkable. But he lived and even though he had some physical problems, he received physio- and other kinds of therapy (e.g. they need to teach a kid like that to suck once he was able to get rid of the tubes and start drinking from a bottle - a full-term baby will do this naturally). They were transferred to Nova Scotia when their son was 2 or 3, so I haven't heard from or seen her for quite a while), but before they left, he appeared to be quite "normal" (whatever that is, except for being a little behind kids of his age - with premature babies, they expect a lag in things happening that corresponds more or less to how premature the kid is - for example, if a full-term baby starts to walk at 12 months, the child born three months premature might not walk until 15 months (which doesn't explain my sister's freak kids that walked at 7 months - it is really scary to see a kid that young running around!) Now I was probably a couple of weeks premature because I was a planned Caesarian (my mother had had placenta previa with the two earlier kids, so they didn't wait for labour with the rest of us). So I'm not as much older than Smurph as he likes to think I am. NP - one wicked thunder storm outside and the dog having a panic attack as a result. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:14:12 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: (NJC) what? OMG it moved!! Feck it! Love Paz(having a very hearty laugh on a dim night) P.S Get your rest now girl! > Paz wrote: > JUST A FECKING MINUTE Guzzi. YOU my dear must be MUCH older than me, if I > recall I played music over your sleeping body at JF2003 at Lez Cottage right > after you asked ME to perform with Sugarpants and of course you have NO > recollection of any of this right? > > Hey NOW! I had been up without sleep for two days and trying to handle my > much younger girlfriend before leaving for fest - can YOU still handle > a 21 year old?! Gimme a break Grand Pa! In fact - gimme a round of applause > for taking that on baby! > > And another thing aren't you always conducting your business over sleeping > bodies!? At your age you would be happy to have at anything that still moved > on occassion. LMAO! > > Peace, > Susan or ... Guzzi as everyone here seems to have slipped into calling me now! > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:13:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Premature babies (NJC) --- tantra-apso wrote: > > If's are very strange. Even what happens is very > strange. I often have > thought about it. I was born in 58, John in 47, i > lived all over the > world, john in the one place till he moved to > London, I eventually found > myself in London, and eventually we were in the same > place at the same > time, and 22 years later we are still married. When > each of us was born, > was it destined? I prefer notthink of myself as a > fatalaist, that things > are emant to be. I prefer to think of it as "fate" when something good happens (it was "meant" to be) and "just bad shit" when something bad happens (Shit happens). Sometimes fate is what you make it - if you want something badly enough, you can make it happen (of course, it would be hard to "want" John before you knew him, wouldn't it, but maybe you wanted someone like him and subconsciously... y'know magnet and iron, the souls?) Not that I believe too much in that but when something cool like that happens, don't you just want to look up at the sky and the stars and yell, "THANK YOU!!" ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #413 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)