From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #369 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, July 23 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 369 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Shadows and light DVD ["Spidertex1" ] So it comes in threes, right? (NJC) [Chris Marshall ] Birthday time again......23rd July NJC ["hell" ] Re: Over the top Joni comments [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: who's the dude. [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Discovering Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Adam Duritz and Joni [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC [tantra-apso ] Re: who's the dude. [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: who's the dude. [Jerry Notaro ] Re: who's the dude. [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC ["Donna Binkley" ] Steely Dan (njc) [ReckersL@ebrd.com] my torched car NJCr [ReckersL@ebrd.com] RE: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Royalties NJC [Jerry Notaro ] re:permavine ["Garret" ] Re: Discovering Joni ["ron" ] Re: who's the dude. NJC ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: Re: who's the dude. ["mack watson-bush" ] RE: NJC ["Marja Tensen" ] Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan (little jc) njc ["Bree Mcdonough" ] What Would Joni Do? ["Lori Fye" ] Re: who's the dude. NJC [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: who's the dude. NJC [Catherine McKay ] send in the clowns. fag content. njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: my torched car NJC [Catherine McKay ] NJC Re: Steely Dan ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: NJC Re: Steely Dan ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: NJC Re: Steely Dan ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Shadows and light DVD [Randy Remote ] Re: What Would Joni Do? [Randy Remote ] Re: NJC Re: Steely Dan now Sweet Boring James [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: who's the dude. NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: send in the clowns [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan (little jc) njc [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:00:39 +0200 From: "Spidertex1" Subject: Shadows and light DVD I'm searching for this wonderful DVD since i bought the LP in 1980, well in the eighties I was searching for the vhs, and now I found it is only region 1!! I live in Italy and I'm searching for a region 2 copy but I am not able to find one and I am not capable to hack my dvd player. No one knows if it is released region 2? How could all european fans of Joni live this way? thanks Gianluca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:03:58 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: So it comes in threes, right? (NJC) First of all, our first Stryngs gig was rained off after three songs. This was frustrating as we were treating it as a warm up gig with a relaxed friendly crowd before a bigger gig next week. We were asked to play a friend's garden party last weekend, and were playing outdoors. It had been a lovely sunny day, but by the time we started, the cloud had built up, and just as Strings sang the line including "sometimes I seem to see you in the puddles, when it rains" it did, indeed, start to rain. Still, we'd achieved a very good "out front" sound (a number of people complimented us on how it sounded) and were settling into playing live rather nicely, so it wasn't all wasted. Secondly... I seem to have all the hallmarks of tennis elbow in my right arm. I fitted a hands-free cellphone kit to my car yesterday and I think I bashed my elbow on something, so perhaps that triggered it. I dunno. Hopefully it will recede in time for Jonifest. I'm absolutely definitely going to play, no matter what, but I might be grimacing a lot and packing my arm with bags of frozen peas. (Jimmy, I'll assume you've got a "repetitive strain" joke there somewhere, to save you the effort of posting it :-) :-) :-) I don't know what number three will be, but I'm curious to find out what it'll be. Word of the day, therefore: "sheesh" - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:45:09 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC A HUGE happy birthday to my favourite JMDLer, Kerry! Have a great day, and I promise not to tell anyone how old you are ;o) love and ginormous birthday hugs Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:33:47 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Over the top Joni comments Lama quoted the critic (I too forget his name for the moment, but I will get it), to which I would like to add a paraphrased intro: "And they didn't just love her the way they loved The Rolling Stones or Motown. People *REALLY* did feel that > > > "This woman, by the light of this record player, is looking into my soul." > > > I have commented in the past that there have been an unusually large number > of superlatives/hyperboles (like this one) directed Joni's way over time. I > really would like to start compiling them into a document, maybe right after > the Fest - who knows, maybe it could become a birthday present for someone. I > could do this alone, or perhaps some of you all out there could help out by > sending them (and the cites) along to me by e-mail as you spot them. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:41:10 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: who's the dude. And it has amazed me that there has been so little talk (except by me) of the success of this song. It is now in the Adult Contemporary Top 10 list, and the video has been in the Top Ten for weeks, surely a Joni-penned most successful record in many years. Jerry Richard Flynn wrote: >Are you talking about the Counting Crows version? The dude is Adam Duritz, >their lead singer (and main lyricist). > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of mack >watson-bush >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:39 PM >To: joni >Subject: who's the dude. > > >Who's the dude that has a hit with 'big yellow taxi?' rather nice to ride >down the avenue with the wind in the hair (well, some) and across the face >and >listen to the words of our friend joan singing her words of wisdom. >Chuckled >to myself and wondered how many of the kids today know what ddt is, or care. >By the way, where is that gorgeous mags? > >mack > >np: barbra streisand-the essential ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:40:44 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Discovering Joni In a message dated 7/23/2003 1:16:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > We > ended up making about $50 off him (not including drinks!), > so I think he > might have regretted his decision! Well, speaking from the vantage point of a 45-year-old male, the guy gets the company of two lovely 17-year old girls for the whole of the train trip, and he's out $50 and drink money? Naw, he didn't regret a nanosecond of it, Hell, I guarantee it, especially given that YOU were one of the 2 young girls. :~) As for WTRF, I'm with you 100%. For me this record came at exactly the right time...I had recently relocated to Greenville from Raleigh NC, and besides my co-workers (who I did not have much in common with) I didn't really have much around me that was a familiar comfort. WTRF gave me Joni back (after she had abandoned me with Mingus which I did not appreciate at the time), And I just thought the LP resonated with joy, which was very sincere of course as she was celebrating her new-found love with Klein. For a long time I played WTRF when I woke up each morning to get me going, Jacko's "Thriller" when I got home from work, and Willie Nelson's "Stardust" to sing me to sleep at night. (Plus of course lots of other stuff in between!):~) Bob NP: Sting, "Saint Agnes & The Burning Train" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:58:15 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Adam Duritz and Joni > > Are you talking about the Counting Crows version? The dude is Adam > Duritz, > > their lead singer (and main lyricist). And Mack, Speaking of over-the top comments, below we find a "diary" entry from Adam Duritz to his fans (first posted to the list by another JMDL'er whose son was a CC fan but not a Joni fan - until this happened). It's a pretty good read, tool. Bobsart > 5/21/02 - A Tuesday in Amsterdam - 10:30 am Jeez, I just bit my lip. I hate > that. Now I'll be doing it over and over again all day. It's a clear cold > day here. Not too cold though. I'm in my room at the Grand Hotel listening to > Joni Mitchell records and reading the morning away. Been getting up early each > day and spending the time watching the day get started. There's a canal > outside my window and a couple on a boat sitting drinking coffee. They either > look relaxed or hung over. I have no idea which it is. There is enough going on > outside my window every evening to service a city's worth of hangovers and > this is a city that loves a good hangover. I wish I was a different me. At this > point in my life, I've given up all the habits that would've made Amsterdam > a truly enjoyable city. I'm reduced to appreciating the joys of a pristine > morning. Not bad in its own way. Morning is certainly not something I've ever > seen very much of in my life, and when I did, it was more at the ass end of > the day. It has an entirely different perspective when seen from this angle. > Have you ever listened to "Blue" by Joni Mitchell? This is in my top 3 albums > ever. I have about 7 copies because I always find myself in some city far from > home without it and I end up buying another copy because I'm dying to hear > it. I just feel like I connect with every song on this record. Not that I > necessarily identify with them. They don't feel like my experiences, but it feels > like she opens up her life to me and I climb in and feel what she feels. > She's so beautiful. We did this cover of "Big Yellow Taxi" while we were > recording Hard Candy and when Lillywhite found out Joni was working down the hall > from where we were mixing, he told her about it and invited her over to hear > the song. As soon as I heard this I panicked and decided I had to sneak out of > the studio before she got there. I managed to quietly pack up my things > without anyone noticing me, but unfortunately I stepped out of the lounge just as > Jack Joseph left the studio to look for me and just as Joni walked back in > the front door from walking her dog. Not only couldn't I get out the front door > without running straight into Joni; I couldn't even get back into the lounge > without everyone noticing that I had a fully packed-up backpack on my back. > Caught between two equally unavoidable and embarrassing situations, I chose > to humiliate myself in front of people I knew rather than people I didn't and > slunk back into our studio. Joni came in a few minutes later and actually > liked the song a lot, which was a huge relief. We talked for a while and then > she asked if I wanted to hear some of her new album so we went back to studio B > in Ocean Way and she played me a few songs. I should explain that I began > this experience in awe of her. The album she is working on is a two-volume set > comprised of material from throughout her career done in entirely new > arrangements accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra. As well as the orchestra, > she has musicians like New Orleans drummer Brian Blade and jazz saxophone > legend Wayne Shorter filling out the band playing arrangements that are vastly > different from the original recordings. She played me a couple songs, > "Cherokee Louise" and "For The Roses" I think, and I sat there stunned. They were so > beautiful and so full I wanted to cry. After a while I got up the courage to > ask if I could hear some more. I never wanted to leave. I listened to music > with her for about an hour. It's a stunning album. Listening to it was like > being in a movie. More than just something I listened to, it seemed to fill > all my senses at once. They won't play her on the radio, but she's there for > you to find. I'm listening to Court and Spark" right now. "Blue" ended a while > ago. There's no one like her. There never was. In a business dedicated to > trying as hard as you can to sounding just like everyone else, she remains a > true individual. Go see what she's like. She was really nice to me. And when > there's no one here but myself and the morning in Amsterdam, she keeps me > company. I wouldn't have it any other way. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:03:41 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC happy 50th kerry!!!! Yes, Hell broke her promise..... I must say, having seen your pic, you are wearing very well ;-) hell wrote: >A HUGE happy birthday to my favourite JMDLer, Kerry! > >Have a great day, and I promise not to tell anyone how old you are ;o) > >love and ginormous birthday hugs > >Hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:54:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC HAPPY FREAKING BIRTHDAY SISTER GIRL! May all you dreams come true and keep on keeping on! And BTW, I DO know how old you are - and no worries - you look marvelous! Sending out kisses and hugs and a big bottle of Drambuie! Have the best day possible and may all the best be yet to come! Peace, Susan NPIMH: Sweetbird you are briefer than a falling star .... hell wrote: A HUGE happy birthday to my favourite JMDLer, Kerry! Have a great day, and I promise not to tell anyone how old you are ;o) love and ginormous birthday hugs Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:01:43 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: who's the dude. In a message dated 7/23/2003 7:41:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > And it has amazed me that there has been so little talk > (except by me) > of the success of this song. Ahem! I believe *I* have mentioned it a time or two! ;~) I DO think that it's a significant release as it will end up turning on scads of folks onto Joni's music. It's one thing for a contemporary artist to do a Joni cover; it's another thing when people like Adam Duritz openly and gushingly praise Joni's work. I think the upcoming Mandy Moore release (now delayed to October) could have the same effect; she's been very vocal in her praise of Joni, both on her website and in interviews, and she has hordes of young female fans, all ready to be burned in relationships and in need of the balm of Joni's solace. Bob NP: Angie Stone, "Pissed Off" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:03:50 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC If Kerry's really that old, maybe she needs to get out her cane. Oh, you're a mean ol' mama...but I like you. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:09:08 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: who's the dude. SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/23/2003 7:41:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, >notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > > > >>And it has amazed me that there has been so little talk >>(except by me) >>of the success of this song. >> >> > >Ahem! I believe *I* have mentioned it a time or two! ;~) > > Then YOU must have been part of the "so little!" Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:17:23 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: who's the dude. I am not sure where you have been but there has been ample dialogue about the Counting Crows version of BYT on this list, particularly a couple of months ago. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:23:05 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: who's the dude. True, but those postings have been by me. That was my point. Jerry Aerchak@aol.com wrote: >I am not sure where you have been but there has been ample dialogue about the >Counting Crows version of BYT on this list, particularly a couple of months >ago. > >Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:26:39 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: who's the dude. Well, here's my 2 cents worth on the Counting Crows version of BYT. I'm not a big fan of CC, but they do a killer job of BYT. I didn't want to buy their album, but I saw the movie "Two Weeks Notice" which their version appears. I liked all of the music from the movie, so I bought the soundtrack. BIG MISTAKE !!! The damn CD just had the background elevator type music from the movie. LOL At least I have it on Covers #41 (thanks Bob) Jimmy NP: Maura O'Connell "Half Moon Bay" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:42:56 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC Happy Birthday Kerry! Hope it's a great one! love donna >>> Susan Guzzi 7/23/2003 8:54:18 AM >>> HAPPY FREAKING BIRTHDAY SISTER GIRL! May all you dreams come true and keep on keeping on! And BTW, I DO know how old you are - and no worries - you look marvelous! Sending out kisses and hugs and a big bottle of Drambuie! Have the best day possible and may all the best be yet to come! Peace, Susan NPIMH: Sweetbird you are briefer than a falling star .... hell wrote: A HUGE happy birthday to my favourite JMDLer, Kerry! Have a great day, and I promise not to tell anyone how old you are ;o) love and ginormous birthday hugs Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:49:11 -0400 From: "Tortorici, Frank" Subject: Marilyn Beck's syndicated column--"The Magdalene Sisters" Here is text from Marilyn Beck's syndicated entertainment column on July 22. There us no mention of Joni: Will the Catholic Church embrace "The Magdalene Sisters"? Peter Mullan, who created the much-honored feature exposing sadistic goings-on inside Ireland's Magdalene asylums for wayward girls in the 1960's, is wondering what the next response to his film will be-especially when Miramax launches its American release next month. "Initially, the Vatican said I was a liar and I'd made the whole thing up," notes Mullan, who still hasn't taken most of his pay for his labor-of-love project-and who still receives thank-you letters from the women he calls "survivors of the Magdalene." "By the time it opened in Ireland, they were silent. But then when it opened in Scotland, I picked up the newspaper one Sunday morning and found a huge ad taken by the official spokesperson of the Catholic Church in Scotland. I though it would be an outright condemnation. Instead, it was an unequivocal recommendation that everyone should see it. I was absolutely gobsmacked." He adds, "Donning my optimistic hat, I'd like to think it's the beginning of an act of contrition. Donning my cynical hat, I think it's a cover-up public relations exercise. The truth is probably in-between." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:16:51 -0500 From: "J.David Sapp" Subject: laser cleaning discs NJC Recently I bought a new DVD/CD player. In the past I used a laser cleaning disc on my CD player. I've been asking around and some people say to use one and others say not to. Reason being that the cleaning disc actually comes into contact with the laser and could damage it (a CD apparently doesn't contact the laser). Does anyone know anything about this? Do you use one? If so is there a good one? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated - reply off list or copy me because, yep you guessed it - I'm joni-only. peace, david ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:09:02 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: Steely Dan (njc) Confession: over the years I have probably been more of an active and fanatical Steely Dan fan than a Joni fan, because my liking of Joni was very dormant for a while. So if they're going to be mentioned, I need to join in. Azeem, I can just remember, my first reaction to their music was just the same as yours: I found it passionless! I was at university at the time, people were raving about it but I wondered what all the fuss was about. Then one day on a study trip to London I met a guy, fell in love and had a very short but passionate time with him, during which he tried to convert me to the Dan music. I listened politely but it did not mean much - anyway I was concentrating on other things... :-) A week or so later, back in Belgium, I fell seriously ill and moved back to my parents to convalesce. I had to stay in bed for a long time. I borrowed my brother's headphones and his copy of Katie Lied (for sentimental reasons because I missed the guy). Suddenly the music blew my mind! I could hear all the instruments in much greater detail and suddenly the sheer genius was obvious. I realised just how infectuous and beautiful and passionate that music was. Never sentimental, never sugary, often very dry and sarcastic but yes full of brilliant passion. Katie Lied has remained my favourite album ever since (hi Kakki!) but I love them all. Can't buy a Thrill is more pop but what melodies, what a way of being pop! Gaucho has a completely different timbre, it feels like dark wood to me, but is also pure beauty, as is everything else in between. As to their last 2 efforts: I was disappointed with Two Against Nature and can't really judge Everything Must Go yet because I have not had enough time to listen to it yet, but it's clear it's not another classic like all the 70s albums plus Gaucho (which is 80s) were. So Azeem, my advice is: listen to Katie Lied with good headphones and let yourself go! One last story, very personal. Just over ten years ago, I already had 2 kids and I was pregnant again, happily so. I had a little loss of blood, nothing serious I thought, and my doctor recommended for me to have a scan done at a certain hospital, so I drove there. The weather was beautiful, the car windows were open and the radio was playing Steely Dan's "Any Place that I'm Welcome to". I felt happy as always to hear their music and sang along... Half an hour later I was crying and howling because the hospital doctor had just told me that I was not pregnant any more. I had lost it. Ever since, I connect the two: that happy feeling of a sunny ride with the Steely Dan music, and the horror of the miscarriage. But I still enjoy their music just the same. Lieve. - - - - - - - Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 17:40:24 -0400 From: Subject: Re: Steely Dan (njc) Azeem, I can see that. One man's "passionless" is another man's "cool, intellectual, aloofness." "Can't Buy a Thrill" is eclectic but to me it isn't inconsistent. So it goes. Lama np: Demos for "The Beatles" AKA "the white album". Azeem said, >>I'd count myself as a Steely Dan agnostic. I had Can't Buy A Thrill years ago, but I thought it was inconsistent, and didn't like the "other" singer's voice (David Palmer, was it?). I love individual songs, but overall I find them a bit, erm, dare I say it, passionless>> ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:14:38 +0100 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: my torched car NJCr Vince, I'm so happy to hear that! I thought these things only ever happen in movies! Lieve. - --- - - - - - - Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:12:10 -0400 From: vince Subject: my torched car NJC the car I almost sold Friday afternoon gets torched Friday night and I had no comp insurance on it so none of the damage was covered... ... but ... the tow truck driver for the other torched car fell in love with mine and paid me only $75 less than what I was asking on Friday, and he has taken it away to use it in stock car races! (obviously burned insides does not keep a car from being a stock car!) I am very proud! ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:54:56 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Birthday time again......23rd July NJC happy birthday, kerry!!!! wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:45:25 +0000 From: "c Karma" Subject: "Is That All There Is?" and "Both Sides Now" I got a new car recently. My first with a CD player! Retro, eh? Reigning in the slot for over a week is the promo CD "Stormy Weather" that came from AT&T Worldnet that was the 1998 Walden Woods Benefit. Most of us know the event, a gaggle of popular singers including Joni gathered in the Hollywood Bowl to chirp for Don Henley's pet charity a selection of new and old standards, backed by a symphony orchestra and jazz combo reading arrangements by Vince Mendoza. Sound familiar? The most surprising highlight for me is Sandra Bernhard's version of "Is That All There Is?", which you might remember as a big hit for Peggy Lee in the late 60s. Mendoza hits this one perfectly, his arrangement blending Scott Joplin, Nino Rota and Kurt Weill seamlessly to back Bernhard's jaded, comic detachment. ("Jaded" here, being a darker shade of ennui. "World-weary" would suggest having lived it all, previously. That's Shirley MacLaine's version.) Anyway, why someone hasn't lassoed Bernhard for a Broadway run in something Brechtian, I don't know. Listening over and over, with Joni following later on "Stormy Weather" made me think of the similiarity in structure of "Is That All There Is?" and "Both Sides Now." Both songs were popular hits in the late 60s. They both used their narrative verses to create chapters in a repeated manner, both looking for conclusions in understanding love and life individually. (ITATI: fire,circus,love, life. BSN: clouds,love,life) Greater minds could probably point to their success in sociological terms, given the political and social unrest of the period and I'm sure that this list is no stranger to discussions of "Both Sides Now" in this regard. Can anyone suggest other songs that use a similar, repeated structure where subjects change and are inserted to good and profound effect? CC "He saw my complications and he mirrored me back simplified." -- JM _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:06:51 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Royalties NJC hi one way to look at it is giving them a free copy now is an investment in the future. once theyre hooked theyll go out & buy more of her cds - even if they have to sell their mother to do so. great - now you feel like a drug pusher :-) actually - thats pretty much my take on copying - a free cd now may well result in more sales in the future. as i was saying to someone today - which is better for a musicians sales - 1,000 fans with 50% legal copies, or 1,000,000 fans with 10% legal copies??????? also - on this vein - its amazing how things can change!!! two years ago a certain musician was threatening me with civil and criminal action for treeing some radio and live shows. last week her sound people contacted me for copies of some live & rare recordings for use as bonus tracks on her upcoming album!!!!!!!! todays pirate - tomorrows archivist??????? ron np = glenn miller orchestra - april in paris hate to say it but they do the orchestra thing better than t'log!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:10:27 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Royalties NJC ron wrote: >np = glenn miller orchestra - april in paris >hate to say it but they do the orchestra thing better than t'log!!!!! > Amen. Glenn Miller did the "orchestra thing" better than just about anybody! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:15:56 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: re:permavine If anyone without cd burning facilities would appreciate a copy of hte Joni and James perma-vine disc, let me know, and i will get it to you asap. I will be sending this original on to Rachel posall@hotmail.com GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:29:39 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: Discovering Joni Hi >>>>>Jenny wrote: > Lori - I loved your description of the time in your life when you discovered it. I love those types of stories in general, so if anyone feels like sharing when and how they discovered a certain Joni album - the time you are transported to when you hear it again, jump on in.<<<<<< in the early 80's i was doing my air force service at walvis bay in namibia (tho still a part of south africa in those days) music was a big part of my life then, as was marijuana, and fighting the military - i was the only person in the whole camp with access to durban poison, *plus* i had a hi fi, and was therefore pretty popular, even tho my taste in music was a bit strange for most of the people there. still, as someone pointed out - listening to music straight was like listening in black & white - listening stoned was like listening in colour. this was later expanded to 2d straight - 3d stoned!!! then a friend went on leave, & came back with an album which he said was the latest "in" thing in johannesburg (biggest city in south africa), and he puts on shadows & light. no - i was not floored immediately, but oh boy, was i intrigued. i quickly took a shine to amelia - just somehow couldnt get a grip on the rest. but i just kept coming back - esp - "god must be a boogie man" when i finished up i left the army, came home & fell into the most indescribable depression. by this stage i had bought my own copy of S&L & listened to it daily. the depression got worse. i got to the brink of suicide, & was pulled back by a friend (i was leaving her flat to go & kill myself - she ran after me & gave me a hug - dont *ever* underestimate the power of a hug.....) strangely enough - for an album which was such a deep part of me during such a low time. today i still absolutely love the album - rate it as the best album i have ever heard. im not transported back to those dark day, just love listening & appreciating the sheer perfection and beauty............................. ron np - glenn miller orchestra - georgia on my mind ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:08:16 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: who's the dude. NJC Mack might not be familiar with the Counting Crows. I know I wasn't until Bob included it a couple of covers ago. PS. Picked up Laura Nyro's greatest hits today. First listen in the car with my sister.......she more familiar than I....very impressed. Bree >I am not sure where you have been but there has been ample dialogue about >the >Counting Crows version of BYT on this list, particularly a couple of months >ago. > >Andrea _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 15:36:16 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Re: who's the dude. I am not sure where you have been but there has been ample dialogue about > >the > >Counting Crows version of BYT on this list, particularly a couple of months > >ago. > > > >Andrea hmmm. Well, not according to jerry or bob. As for 'ample', I'll leave that up to the les since this is the joni mitchell discussion list. And for anyone that thinks the discussion has been ample, I suggest the delete button. mack > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:38:10 +0000 From: "Marja Tensen" Subject: RE: NJC >From: "Heather" >To: ,, >Subject: RE: NJC >Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:35:31 -0400 > >Walk off stage??? ;-) > >heather > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of >FMYFL@aol.com >Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 7:27 PM >To: kimcarrey@hotmail.com; joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: NJC > > >In a message dated 7/22/2003 7:20:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, >kimcarrey@hotmail.com writes: > > > Please make it stop, for I am confused. What Would Joni Do?- > >Kick her maid???? > >[demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of >Disco .jpg] >do another shitty remake of "both sides now"? _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:58:49 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan (little jc) njc >their new stuff > > measures up to their past. > > >Well, I certainly don't disagree with any of that. I haven't been impressed >with their newest one yet. Sounds like product put out just to give them >something to tour behind. It's funny, because my best buddy used to say >that all >their songs sounded the same (this was in the "Aja" period, when 'Peg' was >a hit >and getting a lot of airplay. I used to argue that he was basically full of >crap. But now I find myself saying the same thing about their last 2 >records. > >Bob I just today was listening to the new one today in the car and sadly.."Everything Must Go"...must go. I found no hooks..nothing really catchy. My sister..Angie, is their number one fan and just grimaced while listening. We commented how Becker's voice..allthough he can carry a tune,it's just not interesting like Fagan's. I still have high hopes for them in the future considering their 70's stuff and the wonderful Gaucho of the eighties. Bree _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:09:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan (little jc) njc In a message dated 7/23/2003 3:58:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: > I still have high hopes for > them in the future considering their 70's stuff and the > wonderful Gaucho of > the eighties. And don't forget Fagen's WONDERFUL solo record "The Nightfly"! If you don't have it already, it'll fill your need for great new Dan...I'm assuming that you do though. At least they still do a peppy live show. Bob NP: The Story, "When Two & Two Are Five" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:21:42 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: who's the dude. NJC Andrea wrote (hi, Andrea!!): > I am not sure where you have been but there has been ample dialogue > about the Counting Crows version of BYT on this list, particularly a > couple of months ago. mack responded: > hmmm. Well, not according to jerry or bob. As for 'ample', I'll > leave that up to the les since this is the joni mitchell discussion > list. And for anyone that thinks the discussion has been ample, I > suggest the delete button. Before this turns into a flame war that someone attempts to extinguish with a pissing contest, the basic rule on the JMDL has always been: if it's Joni-related (as any discussion regarding "Big Yellow Taxi" certainly is), there is no limit on the discussion. In the past we've had "long-timers" gripe about folks asking the meaning of "siquomb" or "goat dancing" or what-have-you, and it's generally been held that we should all ENCOURAGE such questions. Afterall, not all of us are able to keep up with everything written here and we might've missed a discussion, not to mention there are new folks everyday who we don't want to discourage or disrespect by insisting that they spend weeks reading the archives before jumping into the dialogue. Now let's get back to the garden!! Fest is just 16 days from now!! Lori, looking forward to it ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:24:32 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: What Would Joni Do? > do another shitty remake of "both sides now"? Who wrote that one? Let's discuss. : ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:39:59 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: who's the dude. NJC I personally liked the interview that someone sent in with Adam Duritz and I shared that with some younger folks. That seems much more germane than how much we have discussed the CCs version of BYT. My whole gig is getting younger listeners into Joni, like my 23 year old niece, because I KNOW there is a whole generation out there.... One of the things that Counting Crows did was put a Joni song out there, at least, but when you read about how Adam is listening to Blue and Court & Spark and tried to avoid meeting Joni....well, you know he's blown away. Which just shows she will stand the test of time and little by little we will be seeing more of this type of discovery. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:40:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: who's the dude. NJC --- Lori Fye wrote: > > In the past we've had "long-timers" gripe about > folks asking the > meaning of "siquomb" or "goat dancing" or > what-have-you, and it's > generally been held that we should all ENCOURAGE > such questions. > Afterall, not all of us are able to keep up with > everything written > here and we might've missed a discussion, not to > mention there are new > folks everyday who we don't want to discourage or > disrespect by > insisting that they spend weeks reading the archives > before jumping > into the dialogue. Hear, hear! We need some newbies around here, otherwise there'll be no one here to carry on after we all buy it. Anyway no one has asked the SIQUMB question for a long time, so it's probably due. Just don't ask me because I never remember all the words anyway, and I don't even care, so there! Remember - there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 16:50:24 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: send in the clowns. fag content. njc bought streisand the essential yesterday. her version of send in the clowns can't compare to judy's. didn't think babs could be beaten, except by garland. did joan do that tune? mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:07:42 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Royalties? Hi Emily, It's nice to hear from you again. Your question is a bit unusual so I had to consult "The Really Big Book of Inner Circle List Etiquette". Just lifting it off the shelf was a challenge so I hope you appreciate the effort I've taken, at my age, to help you out. Right! While you would ordinarily be unsubbed immediately for your sins, you are in a position to influence the next generation of Joni Appreciators. I think you can take it from there. Lama > Last weekend, my dad bought me an old vinyl copy of "For the Roses" from an antique shop. I've already stolen his tape of "HOSL" and his album of "C&S," and I've got the London James & Joni PermaVine, but I've never paid for a Joni album. Does this make me a bad fan?> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:38:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: my torched car NJC --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Catherine writes: > > << I've had my house broken into and I've had my > wallet and bike stolen and > that was icky enough, but at least someone got > something out of it >> > > Probably American tourists! > AHA! So it WAS you! I might have known! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:44:44 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC Re: Steely Dan Gotta agree. I can't explain why I like it though. :) To me it sounds just like Kamakirad with horn charts stolen from the old albums. (Why do they recycle 6 note phrases like that?) Have you heard James Taylor's "October Road"? Since I have spent my entire adult life in the twilight between melancholy and boredom, it doesn't bother me that he's been writing slightly sad and reflective songs for 30 years. If it didn't work for me, I'd say he's been re-writing "Long Ago And Far Away" for 25 of those years. Lama >>It's funny, because my best buddy used to say that all their songs sounded the same (this was in the "Aja" period, when 'Peg' was a hit and getting a lot of airplay. I used to argue that he was basically full of crap. But now I find myself saying the same thing about their last 2 records.>> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:01:31 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Re: Steely Dan i have never heard steely dan. i just wanted to get that out of my chest. wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:03:49 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Re: Steely Dan oh no! i meamt *off my chest*!!!! what's with my english these days???? w i have never heard steely dan. i just wanted to get that out of my chest. wally ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:25:39 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Shadows and light DVD I don't know the answer, but I hope they straighten it out. When it comes to Joni, leave no child behind. Spidertex1 wrote: > I'm searching for this wonderful DVD since i bought the LP in 1980, well in > the eighties I was searching for the vhs, and now I found it is only region > 1!! I live in Italy and I'm searching for a region 2 copy but I am not able to > find one and I am not capable to hack my dvd player. No one knows if it is > released region 2? > How could all european fans of Joni live this way? > > thanks > Gianluca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:28:14 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: What Would Joni Do? I didn't, but it kills me. I'm saving that one. And now I finally know what those "WWJD" bumper stickers are all about. Lori Fye wrote: > > do another shitty remake of "both sides now"? > > Who wrote that one? > > Let's discuss. > > : ) > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:03:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Steely Dan now Sweet Boring James In a message dated 7/23/2003 6:46:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > it doesn't bother > me that he's been writing slightly sad and reflective songs for 30 years. > Doesn't bother me either, but there's no point in getting them with that kind of sameness to them. I passed on October Road, and I'll pass on the next one as well I'm sure. Not a slam on JT, he's great and I've bought many of his releases. But I'm much more excited about younger artists who have something to say and/or prove. Bob NP: Pink Floyd, "Echoes" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:06:05 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: who's the dude. NJC In a message dated 7/23/2003 5:23:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > In the past we've had "long-timers" gripe about folks asking the > meaning of "siquomb" or "goat dancing" or what-have-you Yes but PaulIV is no longer with us! ;~) Anyways Lori, thanks for keeping the peace. Joni content is ALWAYS welcome, Joni covers ARE Joni content, so there you go. It's all Jerry's fault anyway. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:08:18 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: send in the clowns In a message dated 7/23/2003 5:50:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mack@powercom.net writes: > did joan do that tune? > Nope, she never did, Mack. It would have fit in pretty well on BSN in place of the title track though, don't you think? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:10:34 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan In a message dated 7/22/03 9:52:14 PM, SCJoniGuy writes: << And, while I admire their abilities as songwriters &musicians, I don't think their new stuff << measures up to their past. >> Well, I certainly don't disagree with any of that. I haven't been impressed with their newest one yet. Sounds like product put out just to give them something to tour behind. It's funny, because my best buddy used to say that all their songs sounded the same (this was in the "Aja" period, when 'Peg' was a hit and getting a lot of airplay. I used to argue that he was basically full of crap. But now I find myself saying the same thing about their last 2 records. Bob >> Yeah, I was so excited when I heard about "Two Against Nature" being released, I ran out and bought it as soon as it came out... big disappointment! The latest one, "Everything Must Go" (I think it is) was played in its entirety one night on WFUV so I taped it. If I'd liked it, I might have bought it (honest!) just to support them (and get the liner notes) but I consider it maybe one step up from the last... the tape I made will suffice. Sorry for the complete lack of Joni content, people... but at least it's music we're talkin' 'bout. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:17:59 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan (little jc) njc In a message dated 7/23/03 4:59:05 PM, bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com writes: << I just today was listening to the new one today in the car and sadly.."Everything Must Go"...must go. I found no hooks..nothing really catchy. My sister..Angie, is their number one fan and just grimaced while listening. We commented how Becker's voice..allthough he can carry a tune,it's just not interesting like Fagan's. I still have high hopes for them in the future considering their 70's stuff and the wonderful Gaucho of the eighties. Bree Yes, it's such a let down to anxiously await the release by someone you've loved so much in the past, only to find it's not to your liking. But, you know, there are always new people out there to make you sit up and take notice. In the past few years I've really been impressed by Rufus Wainwright, Michael Penn, Aimee Mann (okay, so she's not new but new as "solo") and the CPR stuff blows me away... Crosby has never been better! (imho); and then, Joe Jackson just releases what I consider one of his best albums ever... easily as good as his first few or "Night & Day". Now, all we need is a NEW release by Joni, equal to her previous "best" and life will be sweet again. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:19:20 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: Joni & Steely Dan In a message dated 7/23/2003 9:12:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PassScribe@aol.com writes: > I ran out and bought it as soon as it came out... big disappointment! > I thought the songs were really good, but the production was lacking. Back in the seventies all those classic Dans were produced by Gary Katz. I wonder what happened to him? With him at the helm, 2VN could have been outstanding, though I do think it's good, but disappointing when you know the potential of Steely Dan. As for Everything Must Go, I listened to it on the web stream a couple of times, and none of it stuck. None of it. I for sure would have bought it if I hadn't listened to it first. And then it would have made quick passage via ebay into someone else's home. Bob NP: Pink Floyd, "Echoes" (after all, it IS 23 mins. long!) ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #369 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)