From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #366 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, July 21 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 366 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: For Free ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Gino & Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: For Free [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Gino & Joni ["mack watson-bush" ] Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc ["Lama-Jim L'Hommed] Re: Gino & Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc ["mack watson-b] Re on of my cars got torched NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: July 20th, 1969, njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re:For Free/Covers Possibilities/MOJO Rates... [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] RE: madiba's 85th birthday NJC ["ron" ] Re: For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? ["ron" ] Also in MOJO... ["Stephen Toogood" ] Re: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc [tantra-apso ] Re: For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? [tantra-apso ] RE: madiba's 85th birthday NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: madiba's 85th birthday NJC [tantra-apso ] Re: For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? [Catherine McKay ] Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? [steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gab] Re: Re one of my cars got torched NJC [tantra-apso ] "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band", njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Joni on Beefheart ["kakki" ] Today in History: July 21 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:15:59 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: For Free >>"Mitchell uses the fact of a fellow playing rather splendidly in the street as a vehicle for her own sellable self-pity, a means by which to make much more of the money she is moaning about. And did she speak to the fellow? Did she invite him to play on the record? Nope...."<< Very interesting thread here and thanks to all who are putting their time and imagination into the interpretation. I would just like to add that it is clear from the above paragraph by the beefheart fan that he believes that this incident at the traffic lights really happened, which may indeed be true. But I would suggest that this kind of situation is easy for a writer to set up; a writer, joni in this case, feels confused by the trappings of fame and needs a way to resolve the crisis, at least in her own mind. Why could she not, as a creative writer, 'invent' a chance meeting as a perfect way to illustrate the contrast between her limos and his pennies (limosnas?) ? Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, but any person trying to analyse or criticise the lyrics should bear in mind that the lyrics are the result of a creative act and one should take care when forming opinions about them. The critic above who blames joni for not inviting him to play on her record shows he believes she is writing a first person, factual narrative and he therefore lacks the critical distance to evaluate the song in an objective way. mike in barcelona NP Jazzuela - various artists (a tribute to the songs played in the book 'Rayuela' by Julio Cortazar, known in English (the book that is) as 'Hopscotch') ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:25:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Gino & Joni In a message dated 7/19/2003 10:17:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mack@powercom.net writes: > While doing so, > looked up Nightwalker and thought I would get the cd as I left the album > back > in Texas. It gives credit to our Joan. Is she on that album? > Nope. I pulled out my copy and went thru the liner notes with a fine tooth comb. The closest JC on it is Vince Colauita is the drummer, and he played with her in the 80's. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 08:03:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? In a message dated 7/18/2003 11:40:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@fuse.net writes: > I may have to surrender my decoder ring when this is widely known but > LADIES > OF THE CANYON often strikes me, in places as cloying. This has been my initial opinion as well, but I didn't "grow up" with LOTC, I pretty much grew up with everything from C&S forward and didn't go back until I signed up here which was 1998, so I've had only 5 years with it. One of the things that striked me the most about is the introduction of new "colors" on this record, where STAS and Clouds feel VERY *solo*, much of LOTC feels more corporate - for example in 'For Free', that clarinet ending. It sounds to these ears that Joni was starting to play with some of her jazz & orchestral paints that would flower much further on FTR. Oh, and that piano intro to Rainy Night House - that knocks my sox right off. Bob NP: Richard Thompson, "A Love You Can't Survive" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:03:36 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: For Free In a message dated 7/19/03 5:06:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > How would you (meaning any of you obviously) compare For Free to For The > Roses, in terms of "musical innocence lost", particularly this section: > > Up the charts > Off to the airport > Your name's in the news > Everything's first class > The lights go down > And it's just you up there > Getting them to feel like that > > Remember the days when you used to sit > And make up your tunes for love > And pour your simple sorrow > To the soundhole and your knee > > Bob > Well, I think these songs share much more in common than just the first word of the titles. And, again, I think that the linking lines I guess I seem ungrateful With my teeth sunk in the hand That brings me things I really can't give up just yet are self effacing rather than self-pitying. I think FTR is more of a personal epistle (to JT), in which Joni shares an intimacy that they have in common. I can better understand the criticism of Joni's work that some if it is too directly personal - thereby reducing the universality that could make it enduring fine art. For example, Willy and perhaps Rainy Night House and FTR and See You Sometime and Electricity (to cite a few obvious examples) may as well name names - the listener is less likely to relate to the details of the scene depicted (even if he or she can relate to the type of scene). This is my least favorite type of Joni song (though I love Electricity), and FTR flirts with that categorization (since it is a missive to another star - a narrow target - whomever that should happen to be). I guess I would say that I prefer For Free to For The Roses Just my thoughts, of course. Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:35:16 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Gino & Joni Thanks Bob, I knew you would come through. Odd that they are listing it that way. It is CD Now. They do have some albums I couldn't find other places. mack > > While doing so, > > looked up Nightwalker and thought I would get the cd as I left the album > > back > > in Texas. It gives credit to our Joan. Is she on that album? > > > > Nope. I pulled out my copy and went thru the liner notes with a fine tooth > comb. The closest JC on it is Vince Colauita is the drummer, and he played with > her in the 80's. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:38:02 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc Everyone, An article on page 14E, the Entertainment section, in today's Cincinnati Post caught my eye. It was underneath an ad for Russian women who are offering breast enlargement and "dates" in exchange for credit cards, husbands with enhanced packages, and secret diets of the stars. As you will see, it appears that our worst fears have been realized. Lama - -------------------------- AP, Oliverea, NY, USA (7/20/2003) Associated Press investigative reporters have been scouring the Internet Community of music fans discussing Joni Mitchell. While a folk singer from the sixties would not ordinarily be news, the shift in this Internet Community is emblematic of larger social ills. Our reporters unearthed a secret document, revealing the future of the JMDL....... - -------------------------- As I look around the room today, I see our gracious hostess, Ashara Stansfield, our distinguished Webmaster/List Master Les Irvin, and many talented singers, songwriters, musicians. Then there are the wannabe, whiney, writers. After listening closely to all of traffic about the State Of the List and I've polished a resolution. I'm presenting it here, behind closed doors, over champagne and caviar in Oliverea because the List is far too unruly to guide itself. That way lies madness. It's up to us to save the List from its members. - -------------------------- Resolution, submitted Saturday, August 9, 2003. Resolved that: 1. The Joni-only-Digest, the Joni-only-list, the Digest, and the classic Joni-list, (hereafter referred to collectively as "the List") shall be governed solely by a new Executive Committee. Les Irvin will be retained as a consultant and figurehead. At least for now. 2. Since Joni appears to have stopped writing songs, all discussion about her Life and Times will be expressed forbidden on the List. Appropriate subject matter on the List will apricots, bumbershoots, and of course, Gay Rights. 3. The Executive Committee shall be comprised of the USA citizens in attendance today at JoniFest 2003. No Europeans allowed, and especially none of those crazy Cannucks. What did Canada ever give us anyway? - -------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:59:08 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Gino & Joni In a message dated 7/20/2003 11:36:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mack@powercom.net writes: > Odd that they are listing it > that way. It is CD Now. Yep, sometimes you have to check a couple of sources to confirm something that you see on a website. The All-Music Guide STILL lists a cover of "Urge For Going" by Count Basie (!) even though I have tried to no end to get them to correct it. Glad I could assist, and gladder still to see you posting again - you've been missed! And your post reminded me that I STILL have to upgrade "Brother To Brother" to CD - I'm dying to hear it again. Bob NP: Suzanne Vega, "Calypso" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 11:00:58 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc Addendum: Add unemployed homophobes to number 2. > Everyone, > An article on page 14E, the Entertainment section, in today's Cincinnati Post caught my eye. It was underneath an ad for Russian > women who are offering breast enlargement and "dates" in exchange for credit cards, husbands with enhanced packages, and secret > diets of the stars. > > As you will see, it appears that our worst fears have been realized. > > Lama > > -------------------------- > AP, Oliverea, NY, USA (7/20/2003) > Associated Press investigative reporters have been scouring the Internet Community of music fans discussing Joni Mitchell. While a > folk singer from the sixties would not ordinarily be news, the shift in this Internet Community is emblematic of larger social ills. > Our reporters unearthed a secret document, revealing the future of the JMDL....... > -------------------------- > As I look around the room today, I see our gracious hostess, Ashara Stansfield, our distinguished Webmaster/List Master Les Irvin, > and many talented singers, songwriters, musicians. Then there are the wannabe, whiney, writers. After listening closely to all of > traffic about the State Of the List and I've polished a resolution. I'm presenting it here, behind closed doors, over champagne and > caviar in Oliverea because the List is far too unruly to guide itself. That way lies madness. It's up to us to save the List from > its members. > -------------------------- > Resolution, submitted Saturday, August 9, 2003. > > Resolved that: > > 1. The Joni-only-Digest, the Joni-only-list, the Digest, and the classic Joni-list, (hereafter referred to collectively as "the > List") > shall be governed solely by a new Executive Committee. Les Irvin will be retained as a consultant and figurehead. At least for > now. > > 2. Since Joni appears to have stopped writing songs, all discussion about her Life and Times will be expressed forbidden on the > List. Appropriate subject matter on the List will apricots, bumbershoots, and of course, Gay Rights. > > 3. The Executive Committee shall be comprised of the USA citizens in attendance today at JoniFest 2003. No Europeans allowed, and > especially none of those crazy Cannucks. What did Canada ever give us anyway? > -------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:52:44 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re on of my cars got torched NJC Taking time to voice my outrage on your behalf Vince. That is so not right to happen to anyone and I am sorry you have had this visited on you. Sadly it is not uncommon here in England. we are starting to get incidences of cars being stolen and torched on a regular basis. I hope they catch the guys who did this to your car and that your insurance will pay up. Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 09:57:48 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc > the classic Joni-list This, I like. "Joni Classic." I guess that makes the only-Joni options "Joni Lite." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:15:53 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: LESSONS OF THE GEESE, State of the List Ashara posted this after the first New England JoniFest, way back on September 5, 1998. I've put the lessons out of order on purpose. You'll understand why when you read #3. - -------------------- LESSONS FROM THE GEESE 1. As each bird flaps its wings it creates an uplift for the bird behind it. By flying in formation the birds can fly 71 percent farther than if they fly alone. The Lesson: People who share a common sense of purpose can get where they want to go quicker and easier when they are propelled by the thrust of others who share the same goals. 2. Whenever a goose falls out of formation it suddenly feels the difficulty of trying to fly alone and quickly gets back into formation. The Lesson: We should stay in formation with those who are headed in the direction we want to go. We can accomplish much more together than by ourselves. 4. The geese in formation honk from the rear to encourage those up front to keep on course and maintain their speed. The Lesson: We need to make sure our honking from behind is helpful and encouraging. Lets remember to say please and thank you to those we serve. 5. When a goose gets sick or shot down, two geese drop out of formation and follow him down to help and protect him. They remain with him until he dies or is able to fly again. The Lesson: It is easy to like those who are like us. However our true character is revealed in our response to those around us who are hurting or suffering misfortune. 3. When the lead goose gets tired it rotates back into the formation and another goose flies at the point position. The Lesson: It is only fair that we take turns doing the hard tasks and share leadership responsibilities. Leaders must have followers and followers need leaders. - -------------------- Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:22:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc --- Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > > An article on page 14E, the Entertainment section, > in today's Cincinnati Post caught my eye. It was > underneath an ad for Russian > women who are offering breast enlargement Who are they offering it to? > 3. The Executive Committee shall be comprised of > the USA citizens in attendance today at JoniFest > 2003. No Europeans allowed, and > especially none of those crazy Cannucks. What did > Canada ever give us anyway? > -------------------------- ME! Canada gave you ME! and for that you should be eternally grateful! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:23:39 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: July 20th, 1969, njc On this day in 1969, 34 years ago, people first walked on another world. Thanks always to Goddard (for the technology to make the trip) and Marconi (for the technology to share the trip) et al. We've looked at luna from both sides now. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 13:40:31 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: July 20th, 1969, njc Lama writes: << On this day in 1969, 34 years ago, people first walked on another world. >> Allegedly. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 14:51:37 EDT From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: Re:For Free/Covers Possibilities/MOJO Rates... "mia ortlieb" writes: > I especially like Joni's version on the "refuge of the roads video" I couldn't agree more Mia..it is my favorite version of the tune. Those extra lyrics really added a new dimension to the song. I think the shift from the verse to this chorus really conveys the " other worldly " reverence that Joni has for him; "Playing like a fallin' angel, Playing like a rising star," and the stark reality that is his life; "Playing to a hat full of nothing, to the honking of the cars" This video also contains my favorite version of " Woodstock ". I love the addition of the electric guitar. It captures the simplicity of the earlier version yet adds a quality that lulls me into ecstasy. ( It certainly takes me " back to the garden.") It seems to be the best interpretation of the song as far as the instrumentation is concerned ! Bobsart48 writes: I was a bit disappointed (perhaps because of all of the hype that preceded it) with Bonnie's cover of Midway (I think Joni's version flows better with this song, which has "round-like" qualities. I have always thought Bonnie's take on the song was right up there with Joni's. Of the covers I have heard of any of Joni's songs I've always thought it to be the most sucessful. ( Mind you I have heard a mere fraction of the covers out there.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember the ' Covers King,' one of the infamous Bobs, voicing the same. ( Do I really want to align myself with one of the Bobs?) Last, but not least...as for the MOJO. I would agree that the introduction to Joni should be through her most accessible works, but I beg to differ with the list. The following is my 5 picks in order of accessibility: 1) " Blue " ...truly a classic. 2) " Court and Spark " ...I don't find it the least bit dated. 3) " Hejira " ...a masterpiece. 4) " Wild Things Run Fast " ...an underappreciated work. 5) " Turbulent Indigo " ...deserving of all the praise it received. Honorable Mention: " Dog Eat Dog "...simply because I know an unusally large number of people who were turned on to Joni with this album. ( I will gladly plead quilty of being the perpetrator of said turn on !!! ) Well...that about wraps it up. Later... Jonily Yours, Warren Keith p.s. What's with the " For Free" rant from the Captain Beefheart site ? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 07:51:17 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: RE: madiba's 85th birthday NJC hi >>>>bob wrote << SMS's >> >>>>Is it too early in the morning for me to figure this out? Or do I not know what it means? i see thereve been a couple of queries about this - im really surprised !!! surely everyone knows what an SMS is??? a text message sent on a cellphone - or what is it called over there on your guys side?? somebody else also asked what "Madiba" means - well, its a nickname, its nice, and it does mean something - only i dont have any idea what..... anyhow - if anyone wants to send a message which will probably never be read the SMS thing is over & you can do a web message now at http://www.safrica.info/mandela/ ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:35:50 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? hi well first off, the more i think about what this guy wrote, the more im getting angry about it. initially my feeling was to be reasonable in my response, but its getting more and more difficult. and the reason for the anger? well in that song joni illustrates something which i have so often seen people do. and which i myself have done on numerous occassions. it really is sad to see the lengths to which the writer went in order to try & prove his totally spurious point. he obviously knows a bit about the song, but it seems he has made an effort to familiarise himself with it, just enough to try and make his case (which he fails to do quite spectacularly) but not enough to actually *get* what she is saying. i must admit personally i originally had a bit of a problem with joni in those lines. actually, i think joni herself had a bit of a problem with the joni revealed in those lines. but was honest enough to admit it and face it. who hasnt faced a similar situation. who hasnt seen someone, battling, or hurt, or underappreciated, or hungry, or lonely, or crippled, or deformed, or rejected, and had their heart go out to that person - genuinely feel something for that person - but just turned away? i know i have - often. sometimes the reason *was* as simple as the robot changing and the traffic starting to flow. and as a result that song now strikes a chord within me and touches me. just like so many other songs by joni. more songs than by any other artist. i guess the writer of the article is just too perfect tho. *hes* never turned away from such a person, or at least never found reason to feel guilty about it more likely. self pitying?? no - honest??? yes and what do i think about the article. well its just bullshit...... ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:51:55 +0100 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: Also in MOJO... With this months MOJO also comes a little book listing their top 100 guitar albums of all time. Oh and guess who's in there...yes our Joni with 'Clouds'. It's nice to see Joni get some recognition as a guitarist and I understand why they chose Clouds. Considering how sparse it is the whole album holds really well and the tunings are lovely. Very under-rated. I guess my faves from the album have to be 'That Song About The Midway', 'The Gallery' and 'I think I Understand'. Most of the album seems to be about reflecting/looking back on things with piece of mind. NP: 'The Gallery' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:19:37 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Secret Proposal Revealed! Re: State of the List, njc >ME! Canada gave you ME! and for that you should be >eternally grateful! > what a brilliant answer. > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:22:20 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: Re on of my cars got torched NJC Lucy Hone wrote: > we are starting to get incidences of >cars being stolen and torched on a regular basis. > Gosh! It has been happening elsewhere in Britain for many years.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:27:19 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? ron wrote: > i think joni herself had a bit of a problem with the >joni revealed in those lines. but was honest enough to admit it and face it. > >who hasnt faced a similar situation. who hasnt seen someone, battling, or >hurt, or underappreciated, or hungry, or lonely, or crippled, or deformed, >or rejected, and had their heart go out to that person - genuinely feel >something for that person - but just turned away? i know i have - often. >sometimes the reason *was* as simple as the robot changing and the traffic >starting to flow. and as a result that song now strikes a chord within me >and touches me. just like so many other songs by joni. more songs than by >any other artist. > > > this post on this subject makes the most sense to me. Thank you. I can understand the song in this context. I have heard people, such as my partner and good friend Judy, share very simialr and raw feeling when having visited Calcutta. I have been one of the great number of 'have nots' and now am one of the lucky ones. Rhatver than give i to feeling guilty, i try to remember everyday how fortunate I am. Gratitude goes a long way. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: madiba's 85th birthday NJC --- ron wrote: > i see thereve been a couple of queries about this - > im really surprised !!! > surely everyone knows what an SMS is??? a text > message sent on a cellphone - > or what is it called over there on your guys side?? First, allow me to say how pleased I am that I'm not the only eejit who didn't understand what an SMS is. I can see that there are other acronymophobes on this list and that's a good thing. If it's a text message sent on a cellphone, why isn't it called a TMSOACP though? Course I wouldn't have a clue how to send one and I don't have one of those fancy things, neither do I want one, so I'll just send a belated e-mail/web message which would be my preference anyway. Or maybe a card by mail, but better hurry because our posties may be on strike tomorrow. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:48:13 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: madiba's 85th birthday NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > >Course I wouldn't have a clue how to send one and I >don't have one of those fancy things, neither do I >want one, > i always said i wouldn't have one. now i have one. i got one when we moved out here. i relaised if i broke down in the car i was fucked wihtout one. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:54:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? --- ron wrote: > well first off, the more i think about what this guy > wrote, the more im > getting angry about it. initially my feeling was to > be reasonable in my > response, but its getting more and more difficult. > and the reason for the > anger? well in that song joni illustrates something > which i have so often > seen people do. and which i myself have done on > numerous occassions. > > it really is sad to see the lengths to which the > writer went in order to try > & prove his totally spurious point. he obviously > knows a bit about the song, > but it seems he has made an effort to familiarise > himself with it, just > enough to try and make his case (which he fails to > do quite spectacularly) > but not enough to actually *get* what she is saying. > ... > who hasnt faced a similar situation. who hasnt seen > someone, battling, or > hurt, or underappreciated, or hungry, or lonely, or > crippled, or deformed, > or rejected, and had their heart go out to that > person - genuinely feel > something for that person - but just turned away? i > know i have - often. > sometimes the reason *was* as simple as the robot > changing and the traffic > starting to flow. and as a result that song now > strikes a chord within me > and touches me. just like so many other songs by > joni. more songs than by > any other artist. > > i guess the writer of the article is just too > perfect tho. *hes* never > turned away from such a person, or at least never > found reason to feel > guilty about it more likely. > > self pitying?? no - honest??? yes > > and what do i think about the article. well its just > bullshit...... > Ron, I think you make excellent points here. For some reason, though, this guy made me laugh rather than get angry. In a way, I get what he's talking about, but it's hard to explain. I get a kick out of people who satirise things, like the kind of writing Joni does in "For Free." When people do a take-off on some artist or a movie or a book or whatever, they're actually flattering what they're making fun of. If it wasn't worthwhile, it wouldn't be worth satirising, if you get my drift. Not that I think this guy is doing that, really. He's just pissed off, beyond what might seem necessary. Maybe he's afraid to admit that he feels guilty for turning away from the street musician, or the beggar on the street, as the case may be. Some people just don't feel sympathetic anyway - some people believe that the poor deserve their lot. And let's face it - some of the beggars you see really are con artists, so if you stop to give them money, you're taking a chance that you're being kind to someone less fortunate, or you're being a rube for being conned. What the hell - it's only a buck here and there, right? Anyway, if he's a street musician, he's giving you something for your money, so there's really no need to feel pity. I've heard the Joni tale about seeing the guy pretending to be blind and begging for money. She asks him where his clarinet was and he tells her it was stolen, or lost in the crowd or something. So she goes and buys him a new one. A few days later, he's back on the street doing the blind beggar routine and she realizes she's been had - but she laughs it off. Still, the sad part is that a person who is that good playing on his clarinet "for free" (but with his case out, presumably, to collect any money from passers-by) could make more money doing NOTHING but sitting there with a "help me, I'm blind" sign than he could playing his music. That sucks. The last laugh is on that Capt. Beefheart guy that was quoted though, because we're all over here talking about him, and he doesn't know it. ;) And he has inadvertantly started a new thread over here at the same time. Now, if you want to hear a fun song about self-pity, remember these words from Warren Zevon and realize that things are tough all over: I lay my head on the railroad track And wait for the double-E The railroad don't run no more Poor, poor pitiful me {Refrain} Poor, poor pitiful me Poor, poor pitiful me These young girls won't let me be Lord have mercy on me Woe is me ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:59:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Re one of my cars got torched NJC --- tantra-apso wrote: > Lucy Hone wrote: > > > we are starting to get incidences of > >cars being stolen and torched on a regular basis. > > > Gosh! It has been happening elsewhere in Britain for > many years.... It probably happens here too. I know there's a lot of car theft but either the cars are stolen for joy rides and just left somewhere, or else they're taken apart and sent either to Europe or the U.S. to be resold. Sounds kind of crazy but my nephew had a Honda Civic stolen out of a mall parking lot and apparently this is what happens - Honda Civics are cheaper here than in the U.S. because they're made here (so he told me, and he worked for Honda, so I guess he knows, but it was a surprise to me.) As for the torching, dumb question to which there is probably no answer, but .... why? What's the point? or is there not supposed to be one? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 18:00:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: madiba's 85th birthday NJC --- tantra-apso wrote: > > i always said i wouldn't have one. now i have one. i > got one when we > moved out here. i relaised if i broke down in the > car i was fucked > wihtout one. I have a cellphone, but it's for work. Of course I'd use it for personal reasons if I got stuck on the road and so on, but it doesn't have text messaging. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 23:20 +0100 (BST) From: steph@cix.co.uk (Anita Gabrielle Tedder) Subject: Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? "dsk Subject: Re: Re one of my cars got torched NJC Catherine McKay wrote: > >As for the torching, dumb question to which there is >probably no answer, but .... why? What's the point? or >is there not supposed to be one? > the major problem is not theft but just wrecking. the point is venting rage and frustration and resentment. This is a rough area(where we have the kflat in Londodn-the kids are neglected, abused etc) bw colin > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:07:18 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: madiba's 85th birthday NJC mine does. it takes AGES. quciker just to phone! Catherine McKay wrote: > --- tantra-apso wrote: > > > >>i always said i wouldn't have one. now i have one. i >>got one when we >>moved out here. i relaised if i broke down in the >>car i was fucked >>wihtout one. >> >> > >I have a cellphone, but it's for work. Of course I'd >use it for personal reasons if I got stuck on the road >and so on, but it doesn't have text messaging. > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:08:36 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band", njc Like most people of my generation, Sgt. Pepper is a Desert Island Disc. But how many copies of anything, even Sgt. Pepper, does one guy need? In addition to the one copy on CD, I have 4 of them on LP. I'll spare you the details except that the two I can sell are both in Mint condition. One has the cardboard 12x12 flat and the other is flat-less. Neither is extraordinarily rare because they both lack the final tape loop in the lead-out groove. After John's "A Day In the Life" about the absurdity of it all, Beatle Paul says something like, Never to see any other way Never to see any other way Never to see any other way Never to see any other way Never to see any other way Never to see any other way Right. On to the question. My question to you JMDLers is "Is the black-label Capitol that says 'STEREO' at the top of the front cover more valuable than the orange-label Capitol?" My thought on it is that 60s era Capitol was black and my 70s era re-issue of a re-issue of a re-issue of the Beach Boys "Endless Summer" compilation was on an orange (think 70s, man) Capitol label. Simon, RR, what insights into sites can you provide? Are either of these going to pay for my trip to the L.A. JoniFest? Since everyone who speaks English either as a first language or a second one (Hi John) already has a copy, these are worth nothing, right? Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:22:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: For Free, now Electricity/FTR In a message dated 7/20/2003 11:03:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bobsart48 writes: > For example, Willy and perhaps Rainy Night House and FTR and See You > Sometime and Electricity (to cite a few obvious examples) may as well name names - Electricity is an interesting pick to add to that list, Bob. You could have gone with "Let The Wind Carry Me", which is clearly autobiographical and all in the first person. Electricity is not so clear, maybe because I'm not in tune with whose names are being named here. So if it's just my ignorance please excuse me. But she starts out describing a relationship in the third person, it's all "He" & "she": She don't know the system Plus She don't understand She's got all the wrong fuses and splices She's not going to fix it up Too easy Then in the middle of the second verse, we get this combo of lines: And she holds out her flashlight And she shines it on me She wants me to tell her What the trouble might be Now, if you take it literally, the singer is describing another's relationship...do you think that the flashlight shining on her is her way of saying that she's the one in the "spotlight"and that all of it was about her all along? Then, she reverts back to third person to close out the second verse, and begins the closing verse in first person: We once loved together And we floodlit that time Input output electricity But the lines overloaded And the sparks started flying And the loose wires Were lashing out at me And just as quickly jumps back into the third person to close out the song. It certainly makes it a tad confusing, especially when you KNOW that Joni doesn't just toss these things together at random - thankfully. Bob NP: K's Choice, "My Record Company" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:42:22 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: LESSONS OF THE GEESE, State of the List This is from a book called "Gung Ho" by Ken Blanchard and Sheldon Bowes. I was required to read it during orientation at Whole Foods but I found it very illuminating. Its about a true story involving a plant that was in danger of having to close down but this one woman came and turned everything around, saving the business and completely shifting the morale of all the workers. I had a weird experience with this book involving synchronicity. In the story, these two men are at a complete loss of what to do and they had hoped to meet with this woman they had heard about but it wasn't looking like it was going to happen. So they go to a Denny's restaurant to get a meal thinking about how this woman they needed held the key to everything[ in the book it mentions those exact words]. And as it turns out, she is there by herself, and ends up coming over to their table. Back in 1993, I was living in a closed down Kraft Cheese Factory. I went to a Denny's at about 1:00 in the morning to get some breakfast. I saw this beautiful girl sitting at a table all alone and she really struck me. I wrote a song about her not long after that. In the second verse, the lyrics are "I saw an angel there upon the threshold of the world, An exquisite kind of girl. And in her eyes she held the key to everything that is, And everything that was and will be..." weird huh??? By the way, this song is called "Accidental Angel" and is on my new cd, Parsonage Lane available at cdbaby. Victor NP: Ralph Roddenbury live on Z93 at Jakes Toadhouse > -------------------- > LESSONS FROM THE GEESE > 1. As each bird flaps its wings it creates an uplift for the bird behind it. > By flying in formation the birds can fly 71 percent farther than if they fly > alone. The Lesson: People who share a common sense of purpose can get > where they want to go quicker and easier when they are propelled by the > thrust of others who share the same goals. Victor Johnson New cd "Parsonage Lane" available now Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville http://www.waytobluemusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 21:33:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: For Free, now Electricity/FTR I'll take this one on, since it is one i have studied for years and heard ananlysis on since high school when I brought it to poetry class for review ... I believe the song to be in third person from start to finish ... with obvious personal refernces to a similar situation. The section you refer to Bob ... Then in the middle of the second verse, we get this combo of lines: > > And she holds out her flashlight > And she shines it on me > She wants me to tell her > What the trouble might be Suggests to me another version of the "Conversation Syndrome." This time, the female turns to Joni a third party for advice and direction rather than the male looking for her ear. So it points to Joni being put in the middle of the electrical current - so to speak. Continuing with ... and begins the closing verse in first person: > > We once loved together > And we floodlit that time > Input output electricity > But the lines overloaded > And the sparks started flying > And the loose wires > Were lashing out at me > Here I have two possibilities 1. That Joni was once herself involved with this man and now must revisit it out of duty & friendship to the female who seeks her advice .....or 2. Joni uses this relationship as an example in a current or more so recently ended relationship as a point of reference and experience. Finding the common or similar traits of each relationship and deciding if the state & fate of these relationships lend themselves to any hope future or present ... or are they both doomed and unsalvageable. And i think her tone suggests that it is indeed over. I tend to lean towards the latter personally. I think the third parties' relationship brings up all the bad stuff Joni has recenly put to bed and now sees flashing before her eyes again. Just my simple minded two cents, if thats what you were looking for at all. Peace, Susan NP: Laura Nyro & Labelle - Gonna Take a Miracle (damn ... it sure is!) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 22:16:41 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Joni on Beefheart From: The Unfiltered Joni Mitchell by Dave DiMartino Mojo August 1998 D: Do you know Don Van Vliet, Captain Beefheart? J: Yeah, he's a good painter. D: He retired from making music in the early '80s, ostensibly to paint. I spoke with the man who handles his work professionally, and he mentioned that it was tough for any musician to be taken seriously in the art world unless he devoted his time solely to art. He said it would take a minimum of 10 years for him to be away from the music business to be taken seriously at all. J: Absolutely. You're regarded as a dilettante. That's because - here's my opinion on that - America is far away from a renaissance spirit. I've seen shows passing through Rome, the poet as painter, Ferlinghetti's drawings on display. That's a renaissance culture: they understand it, condone it. Why shouldn't a poet be able to render? Not all of them can, but supposing they can? Don't rule it out. ******** Here's a link to some of Van Vliet's paintings http://www.beefheart.com/runpaint/ (I'm sure they look better in person ;-) Some in the collection is reminiscent of Joni's early colored pen and ink works) Kakki Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:00:11 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: July 21 1990: The concert "Roger Water's The Wall: Live In Berlin" was held and included guest singers and musicians such as Joni, Sinead O'Connor, Van Morrison, Cyndi Lauper, Bryan Adams, Paul Carrack of Mike and the Mechanics, the Band, the Scorpions, etc. Joni was joined onstage by flutist James Galway, performing with a pre-recorded backing track on the song "Goodbye, Blue Sky." She also re-appeared at the finale and sang a few solo lines for "The Tide Is Turning" clustered with Sinead O'Connor, Thomas Dolby and Bryan Adams at one side of an elevated platform. More info: http://www.jonimitchell.com/TheWallBerlin90.html - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #366 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)