From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #364 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, July 19 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 364 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #363 [Kardinel@aol.com] New Rufus Waiwright album and First Released Track [NJC] [Richard Goldman] Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? ["Mark or Travis" ] Joni and Buffy ["michael o'malley" ] warning: gay topic njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] warning: gay topic njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Mythology question- njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: JoniFest Activities ["Heather" ] RE: July 18!!!!!!! NJC ["Heather" ] Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? ["kakki" ] "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Joni as hypocrite? ["Paul Meyer-Strom" ] MP3s (was covers king) njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Joni as hypocrite? LONG ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Joni as hypocrite? ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:04:33 EDT From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #363 Garrison Kiellor read "For Free" on Writer's Almanac one morning. I was surprised to hear it. It's not Joni's best song but it's still good and an early song in her career. Kardinel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:13:35 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: New Rufus Waiwright album and First Released Track [NJC] http://www.rufuswainwright.com/rufus_splash.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:58:45 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? > And with this response, you've sunk to his level. ;~) > His Bobness has spoken. I will speak no more. Mr. Cellophane ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:46:03 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: July 18!!!!!!! NJC > SAY > > H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y > > AND GLORIFY LORI FYE! Aww shucks, Wally! (And Donna and all!) Thanks!! I've probably said this here before, but my mom would sometimes wake me by saying "MorninGlori!" : ) gLori Fye, who would've named a daughter "Electra" except for that complex and cartoon Cathy's dog, but who also likes Clara, Morti, and Recti Fye ... and Semper Fye, too!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:03:29 -0400 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni and Buffy Of course, younger listers will be thinking `Vampire Slayer` but we older folks know that we're really talking about Buffy Sainte Marie, that other Canadian-cum-American singer from Saskatchewan. I just saw Buffy at our annual summer music festival here in Quebec City. She is a small woman with a great heart and a huge voice; somewhat astounding when one considers she was born in 1941, making her about 2 years older than Joni. Interesting paralells - came of age in the 60's and 70's, both turned to art making, both Canado-American. Buffy's still in excellent voice, very dynamic and cheerful, still singing her old hits, Up Where We Belong, Until Its Time For You to Go and Universal Soldier. A very warm an engaing performer, if not a bit dated in her musical sophistication and message. Hmm.... not sure what to make of that. Are Joni and Buffy still friendly? Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:39:14 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: warning: gay topic njc today july 18 2003, at 4:30 pm buenos aires had its first civil union between two same-sex people!!!!!!!! it is the first time a civil union takes place in latin america. four couples got the "paper from the city hall": two men, two women, a transgendered person and a man, and a straight couple. the straight couple did it because the license fee is cheaper for a civil union than for a civil marriage. oh where is my bridegroom when i most need it? wally, so very happy and wistful at the same time ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:48:57 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] warning: gay topic njc Wally writes: << oh where is my bridegroom when i most need it? >> Wally, dear . . . do you mean "it" or "him?" If you just need "it" you could go to a Joni Only party. Just wondering, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:48:13 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Mythology question- njc This is learned bunch. I can't remember so can someone tell me who was the character who's birth mother stuck him in a basket and set him to float downstream? He was the sole heir to the throne. Because it was his Destiny to become King, it happened although he was raised as a adopted child, without a (known) royal bloodline. I'm drawing a blank. Thanks, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:09:31 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG Joni Content? Is it possible? For someone who claims to "hate" that song, the guy on the Captain Beefheart list knows it thoroughly. :) I respect that he's bright enough to discuss the duality so well and in that way, he's one of us. He sees the contradiction that she PUT in there. I think that HE THINKS that she's unaware of her own conflicted nature. She's not. He calls 'For Free' as "hypocritically self-pitying as a song can get here. I can see that but to me, she's a hero. She feels the pull and doesn't go. Since she's living "The Examined Life", she writes about her conflicted feelings. Hey, it's not, "Dance, dance, dance. Let's make some ro- mance." There's a bit more to it and I think a Captain Beefheart fan sees that but he, himself, is conflicted about it. He understands it intellectually but as Rose will testify, it takes a leap of faith to get things goin'. Lama Can I get an amen, Rose? >>>What happens in this song that so invites my ire is this: La Mitchell is walking down a street and she espies a man playing solo clarinet "for free". Some say 'twas possibly the fine improv soprano saxophonist Lol Coxhill. She is rather impressed by his playing and speculates briefly about going over and "putting on a har-mon-eeeee" but then the lights turn green and she is off, back to the swish hotel from which she went shopping for jooo-ew-els. >>> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:17:20 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: JoniFest Activities I'm sorry I can't get up to Full Moon for the Thursday & Friday activities but at least I was able to arrange all day & night Saturday & Sunday (leaving Monday morning). I hope all of you arriving early don't burn yourselves out by the time I get there.... save some songs and partying to share with the rest of us, eh? Anyone doing any songs/performance on piano? Since that's what I'm learning at the present, I'd be especially interested in catching whatever you'll be doing on the ivories. And, though I don't play guitar, I'd be interested in attending any workshops on alternate tunings. I assume there's some sort of itinary or schedule announced each day? I was checking out all the photos from past JoniFests on the website so I've already put some faces with names... doubt I'll remember them when I get there but at least it's a start. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:23:32 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: July 18!!!!!!! NJC Birthday girl Lori writes: << who also likes Clara, Morti, and Recti Fye ... and Semper Fye, too!! >> I think Signa and Beautif are pretty names for a girl. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:28:07 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mythology question- njc Lama writes: << who was the character who's birth mother stuck him in a basket and set him to float downstream? >> Um, Moses? --Bob, who likes only his mythology Greek style ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:34:48 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Mythology question- njc Moses. Book of Exodus. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 10:48 PM To: _JMDL Subject: Mythology question- njc This is learned bunch. I can't remember so can someone tell me who was the character who's birth mother stuck him in a basket and set him to float downstream? He was the sole heir to the throne. Because it was his Destiny to become King, it happened although he was raised as a adopted child, without a (known) royal bloodline. I'm drawing a blank. Thanks, Lama ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:37:15 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: JoniFest Activities Remember to bring your bug repellant Jonifesters! The buggies are particularly aggressive now due to all the cooler weather we had early on this year. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of PassScribe@aol.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:17 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: JoniFest Activities I'm sorry I can't get up to Full Moon for the Thursday & Friday activities but at least I was able to arrange all day & night Saturday & Sunday (leaving Monday morning). I hope all of you arriving early don't burn yourselves out by the time I get there.... save some songs and partying to share with the rest of us, eh? Anyone doing any songs/performance on piano? Since that's what I'm learning at the present, I'd be especially interested in catching whatever you'll be doing on the ivories. And, though I don't play guitar, I'd be interested in attending any workshops on alternate tunings. I assume there's some sort of itinary or schedule announced each day? I was checking out all the photos from past JoniFests on the website so I've already put some faces with names... doubt I'll remember them when I get there but at least it's a start. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:41:13 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: July 18!!!!!!! NJC Nulli isn't too bad either. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Murphycopy@aol.com Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 11:24 PM To: lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com; wallykai@fibertel.com.ar Cc: djb@binkleybarfield.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: July 18!!!!!!! NJC Birthday girl Lori writes: << who also likes Clara, Morti, and Recti Fye ... and Semper Fye, too!! >> I think Signa and Beautif are pretty names for a girl. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:37:51 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? Okay, now we're off the Critic and onto Joni Content. She's so conflicted on this song that it's fascinating. She's basically paralyzed yet in motion. She's mid-stream in her life, so much so that she barely notices and really only digests the moment in hindsight, like I do. Contrast this with "Pork Pie Hat" when she comes up out of the subway on the music (that) midnight makes. She and Don look up at the sign, up on the awning, and they GET IT AS IT GOES DOWN. "Pork Pie Hat Bar". She's totally in the Moment and she immediately realizes "There were two, brand new, little musicians dancing there, to-night." (S&L version, paraphrased by a 47-year-old memory.) Too bad she didn't say "are" and "here" instead of "were" and "there" because then she wouldn't have shifted tenses... but I digress. The thing is, when she wrote "For Free", she was a Prairie Girl testing her feet in the City and she Didn't Get It Right Yet. Later on, she moved more easily through the city. I may have to surrender my decoder ring when this is widely known but LADIES OF THE CANYON often strikes me, in places as cloying. Not today, though. Today I'm in tune with "Morning/Morgantown" and the later "California". What I really think of this Captain Beefheart fan is, "The Force is strong with this one. If he could be Turned, he would be a powerful ally." Maybe he tuned out before the cynical DJRD/Hejira period. He'd dig it. np: stuff I'm not allowed to divulge Lama, having a margarita. It's okay though. I'm in training. :) SC JoniGuy said, >>>> And what of HER response: "I meant to go over and ask for a song Maybe put on a harmony" Is she putting herself down as well? How would the song be different if she HAD decided not to cross at the light and went over there and put on that harmony?>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:49:07 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Marianne W. NJC She had a bit of a reputation as a new age guru in LA back in the early 90s and then came the usual expose of her in the local magazines. After reading about her I went to see her speak in Kansas City once while I was there on business just out of curiousity. She didn't come across as an obvious con artist and was entertaining and nice enough. I bought her "Illuminata" book and met her after the program. She is a good writer. I've never been the type to follow gurus or most anyone else for that matter but I as curious about her just from a human observation standpoint. She officiated at Liz Taylor's wedding to Larry Fortensky at Michael Jackson's Neverland ranch as some of you may recall. ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:52:37 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? I think someone should write to that guy from the Capt. Beefheart list and tell him that the Capt. and Joni are/were good old friends and fellow painters. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:58:11 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG >I hate this song because it is just about as hypocritically self-pitying as a song can get.< for free is self pitying? self-effacing maybe...ironic observation definitely...this dude's brain has been left in the marinade too long...& he's got an axe to grind for sure...hope he's not an actual reviewer as stuff like this gives the profession a bad name... kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:58:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: madiba's 85th birthday NJC >I didn't know she was okay. I sorta thought of her as a lightweight guru to the stars with a cult-like following. Am I way wrong?< no (sorry azeem) kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:53:06 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG On behalf of my client, James L'Hommedieu, I demand that you, Catherine of Toronto, Cease and Desist immediately. Your phrase, "....that's our Lady of Multiplicity for you.) is clearly infringing on my client's trademarked phrase "Our Lady Of Duality". We know where you live! You guys have no idea how thankful I am for spell checking tonight. Horschak's Mom PS, By popular demand, I'll post a link to my essay "Our Lady Of Duality" but really people, let's keep the accolades down to a dull roar. I don't want to upstage our Queen, her majesty Lucy II. Is the doctor in, Lucy? http://www.jonimitchell.com/Duality.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:57:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] warning: gay topic njc HIM, of course!!!! what a freudian slip!!!!!!! LOL! besides, i know where my bridegroom is: fenway park, cruising... wally, still wistful - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Viernes, 18 de Julio de 2003 11:49 p.m. Para: wallykai@fibertel.com.ar; joni@smoe.org; northeastjonifest@yahoogroups.com Asunto: Re: [NortheastJonifest] warning: gay topic njc Wally writes: << oh where is my bridegroom when i most need it? >> Wally, dear . . . do you mean "it" or "him?" If you just need "it" you could go to a Joni Only party. Just wondering, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:56:54 -0700 From: "Paul Meyer-Strom" Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? A bit tangentially, I had somehow understood that the singer in this song was James Taylor, perhaps metaphorically. Had anyone else had that impression? paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:01:41 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Marianne W. NJC Kakki writes: << She officiated at Liz Taylor's wedding to Larry Fortensky at Michael Jackson's Neverland ranch as some of you may recall. ;-) >> There's credibility for ya! And didn't Marianne have something to do with the Clintons? I seem to remember something about her being a White House guest, at least. When I lived in New York I had -- and still have, I think! -- a friend who was a Course in Miracles devotee. She gave me quite a few MW tapes to listen to and I did what I always do when confronted with anyone who professes to have all the spiritual answers in a neat little package -- I tuned out. (I have been doing this since my early and catastrophic introduction to Catholicism. Once the message veers from "play nice" to any kind of preaching about what God allegedly wants or how I am supposed to act, I have trouble focussing! To this day I am amazed by the chutzpa of just about any religious "leader." Maybe I am already perfect . . .) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:08:20 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] warning: gay topic njc Wally writes: << i know where my bridegroom is: fenway park, cruising... >> Not a great cruising area, Wally. Everyone there is either straight or trying really hard to be. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:17:24 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: madiba's 85th birthday NJC >She can talk the Talk but not Walk the Walk.< well said, this is what i've heard from others who have been in her sphere of influence...she is very intelligent & a good writer...its just that certain kinds of writings almost require that the person be true to what they say/write... kate www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:21:28 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: MP3s (was covers king) njc Hi Doug, You've put some thought into it and you've constructed a perfectly valid single blind test. (You don't know which version is playing but the "DJ" does.) I'm not gonna argue with ya cause I'll bet you're right. I'll bet there's little difference under your conditions but consider these limitations: 1. Are you playing back mp3s from a PC? And the PC has a fan in the same room.... 2. Are you using your soundcard? Fed by the bus that also has all manner of digital crap on it.... 3. COURT AND SPARK, while an amazing work, and a Desert Island Disc to many, has limited dynamics. Every version I've ever heard already sounds like it's gone through a phone line. Not that you want to go looking for trouble but more demanding test material reveals more problems.... MINGUS and SHADOWS AND LIGHT have more dynamics. Tori Amos' UNDER THE PINK has a grand piano sound that breathes like a big piano in a room. (What a concept! If you don't know what I'm talking about, start saving your pennies to hear the piano in Paz'es living room in New Orleans. The piano on C&S, while beautiful, haunting, evocative, and amazing, doesn't breathe like a real piano in a room. It sounds like a grand piano with a mic stuffed under the cover, then fed through the previously mentioned phone line. No offense to Henry Lewy.) 4. Amp and speakers. Everything sounds "good enough" at Radio Shack when the 6 O'Clock Nightly News is on 3 feet away. Tell me you're not judging ultimate sound quality using a desktop's CD-ROM, sound card, and computer speakers! But.... you're right. mp3s are still WAY BETTER than my 1967 GE Wildcat record player with genuine plastic tonearm that was so bad I couldn't make out many lyrics. You never have to guess which vowel you just heard on an mp3. Any mp3. Point taken. And if it's good enough to transfer the brilliance of COURT AND SPARK, what more could anyone ask for? I get it. It's not about the equipment. It's the MUSIC, the STORIES! I keep telling myself that. :) Lama Doug said, >So to answer the question once and for all, I proposed to myself a blind test.I used "Car On A Hill" from C&S Convert(ed) to MP3 with mkw at 160kbps, 256kbps, 360kbps and one at 56kbps made with Sound Forge I don't hear any significant difference in the original and three higher quality MP3s. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:47:02 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG Debra, I'm not an expert but I play one when I write posts. I have a perspective for you on this question. Joni was conflicted about seeing the freedom of the street musician. She was conflicted about getting wealth, status, and adoration for her work. She was conflicted about the demand to be a human jukebox. Finally, she felt that her skin was like cellophane; she had see-through skin. I *know* you're with me so far. The only logical thing to do was to get back to the Garden. Build a garret. Reclaim her amateur status. ..... Transformed, her true self, the painter who only pleases herself, was thus restored. Complete again, she is able to go *TO* the city without BECOMING the shut-down Urbanite that conflicts her. Her true self is the amateur painter, and her Pose is the Urbanite. Dignity restored, she was free to work with the creme-de-la-creme of Miles band and create multi-cultural, intellectual, yet accessible work. She's not a pro or a sellout. She's an amateur, working her day job, a projection of her True Self into the City. What amateur wouldn't want to live out a fantasy like that? It was only real to US!! Two Cents. [Damn, this was supposed to be my Chapter Four or Five, "Cloak For The City". Mags, are you reading this?] Lama DSK wrote: >>She's aware early on that music is her day job (and that painting comes first, which she's been saying for decades) and that, as with any day job that covers the rent when the passion is elsewhere, they are all about getting paid. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:57:01 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? LONG Okay, we've discussed "For Free" many times before but this is really a very insightful observation. Wow. DSK said, >As she claims, music has always been a way to make money for her, whereas so far she doesn't seem to mind doing paintings and just keeping them in storage, similar to the way the saxophonist played just because he loved doing it so much it didn't matter whether he was paid or not> Lama, who's been on a total Joni tear for hours..... np: For Free on LADIES OF THE CANYON, and no, I'm not lying. np2: Now it's "Conversation" which will FOREVER be Claud9 San Soucie's song to me. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:21:43 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: RE: "For Free" -> Joni as hypocrite? New duo: "The Captain And Joan in Chenille" Lama > From: kakki [mailto:kakkib@vzavenue.net] > I think someone should write to that guy from the Capt. Beefheart list and > tell him that the Capt. and Joni are/were good old friends and fellow > painters. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:04:36 -0400 From: vince Subject: 1 of my cars got torched today njc someone(s) came through our apartment complex and torched 2 cars, 1 of mine being 1 of them - the other car received much worse damage (it is burnt down) than mine since my upstairs neighbor used the fire extinguisher on mine, although from what I can see, it may be a total loss anyway. firefighters everywhere right now and my mind is just blown away Vince ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #364 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)