From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #343 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, July 1 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 343 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Katharine Hepburn NJC [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= ] NJC Katharine Hepburn [] For Jimmy. [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Happy Birthday (NJC) [RoseMJoy@aol.com] equal rights njc [tantra-apso ] Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears LJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Recurring Boob Thread, njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: june 30!!!! njc ["Lori Fye" ] NJC Re: june 30!!!! njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Katharine Hepburn [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Katharine Hepburn NJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: NJC Katharine Hepburn ["Mark or Travis" ] Happy Birthday! ["Mark or Travis" ] equal rights link njc [tantra-apso ] Re: NJC katherine hepburn ["Bree Mcdonough" ] Re: NJC katherine hepburn [tantra-apso ] Re: NJC katherine hepburn ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: NJC katherine hepburn [tantra-apso ] Re: NJC katherine hepburn ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: NJC katherine hepburn [tantra-apso ] Re: NJC katherine hepburn ["mack watson-bush" ] (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech ["Lori Fye" ] Re: (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech ["mack watson-bush" ] Fleetwood Mac - Wow! NJC ["kerry" ] Re: animal souls (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] NJC katharine hepburn ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears LJC [Michael Paz ] bringing up baby NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] bringing up baby NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] animal souls (njc) ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: joni on history of rock & roll 100% JC ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears LJC ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu] Re: june 30!!!! njc [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Happy Birthday! NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: joni on history of rock & roll 100% JC [tantra-apso ] RE: quotes - njc ["Heather" ] RE: quotes - njc ["Heather" ] Hepburn's real BD njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] A Special Request [Michael Paz ] jonifest njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: june 30!!!! njc [Susan Guzzi ] Re: (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech ["Lori Fye" Subject: Katharine Hepburn NJC I too feel sad: our dear Katharine (no Katherine) has died... Someone (I deleted post... waiting for digest) compared her with Bette Davis: that recalls me a very interesting nuance: I think it was around 1937 or 1938 when some cinema's corporaton made public a list of actress (as I can recall, no actor was in it) declared "poison for the box office": in this list they were Bette Davis, Marlene Dietrich, Joan Crawford and, as the leader of them all, our Katharine Hepburn. It was supposed that the films they made were a disaster as popular sales. As Katharine herself declares, she had made a couple of "very boring films": "Break of hearts", "Sylvia Scarlett", "A woman rebels", "Quality street" These four films made of Katharine one who bussiness man tried to get away: in fact, RKO lended her to Columbia so she could make "Holiday", and Howard Hughes (recommended by Kate) was who bought the rights for "Philadelphia Story" prior to its opening, what secured Katharine Hepburn's endurable success (I think this movie as the greatest achievement of classical comedy: instead of a "madness scene" as in many operas are, assuring diva's splendour, it has in it a "drunken scene"... very much the same but more realistic). What I meant to say is: In her youth, Katharine Hepburn was disreputed by establishment'n mainstream as someone too much peculiar: they didn't know what to make with her. She was famous for her strong will and unconventional ways (one can recall that nice situations of her being obliged to enter good hotels at back door -to her joy- because she wore trousers), and, my friends, anyone could tell at her *raptured* performances that she wasn't a actress-like-a-puppet. Doesn't it remember you of somebody? We're packing bags to travel south, but before departing, we'll sit and relax watching "Philadelphia Story" (or maybe David Lean's Summertime). I'll think of you all through these weeks. Have a Wonderful time! Yours: Emiliano NP: Both sides now, Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 02:55:32 -0500 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Katharine Hepburn NJC Some of her films that did not do well at the box office in the early 30s include some where she is projecting an androgynous, almost lesbian-ish image. I suppose the actresses cited by the theatre owners were ones who did not project a sort of Jean Harlow sex appeal. Surprisingly, Bringing Up Baby was another box-office flop on initial release in 1938... today regarded as a classic. It's a very interesting film in that it is (essentially) a talkies version of silent film era slapstick comedy. Imagine that Cary Grant is playing a Harold Lloyd part... imagine what Howard Hawks might've been able to do with Buster Keaton. I guess KH's box office improved enough by The Philadelphia Story to make it a big hit. Emiliano Patiqo wrote: >I too feel sad: our dear Katharine (no Katherine) has died... > >Someone (I deleted post... waiting for digest) compared her with Bette Davis: >that recalls me a very interesting nuance: > >I think it was around 1937 or 1938 when some cinema's corporaton made public a >list of actress (as I can recall, no actor was in it) declared "poison for the >box office": in this list they were Bette Davis, Marlene Dietrich, Joan >Crawford and, as the leader of them all, our Katharine Hepburn. It was >supposed that the films they made were a disaster as popular sales. As >Katharine herself declares, she had made a couple of "very boring films": >"Break of hearts", "Sylvia Scarlett", "A woman rebels", "Quality street" These >four films made of Katharine one who bussiness man tried to get away: in fact, >RKO lended her to Columbia so she could make "Holiday", and Howard Hughes >(recommended by Kate) was who bought the rights for "Philadelphia Story" prior >to its opening, what secured Katharine Hepburn's endurable success (I think >this movie as the greatest achievement of classical comedy: instead of a >"madness scene" as in many operas are, assuring diva's splendour, it has in it >a "drunken scene"... very much the same but more realistic). > >What I meant to say is: >In her youth, Katharine Hepburn was disreputed by establishment'n mainstream >as someone too much peculiar: they didn't know what to make with her. She was >famous for her strong will and unconventional ways (one can recall that nice >situations of her being obliged to enter good hotels at back door -to her joy- >because she wore trousers), and, my friends, anyone could tell at her >*raptured* performances that she wasn't a actress-like-a-puppet. Doesn't it >remember you of somebody? > >We're packing bags to travel south, but before departing, we'll sit and relax >watching "Philadelphia Story" (or maybe David Lean's Summertime). > >I'll think of you all through these weeks. > >Have a Wonderful time! > >Yours: Emiliano > >NP: Both sides now, Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:28:39 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: NJC Katharine Hepburn She was difficult to work with in her final years (but who isn't over ninety?). She turned sentimental in her late career (The Lion in Winter, On Golden Pond) were in my opinion, terrible terrible wastes of her talent) when her real gift was for breaking the rules about women and going against type and playing the tomboy in comedies--in that she was the feminists' heroine. But even in films that did not capitalize on her obvious talents, she's compulsively watchable. Even in the 1994 version of Love Affair as helmed by Warren Beatty. She had that longstanding love affair with Spencer Tracey, and if memory serves, with John Huston among others. She was great in Suddenly Last Summer and Long Day's Journey Into Night (I wonder if Vanessa Redgrave's Tony-winning performance is now the definitive version of Mary Tyrone). delurking, Joseph in Manila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:49:14 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: For Jimmy. How old are you? How old are you ? 47 "Mother Fucker" How old are you? Since my name is Mingus I felt I could sing this to my best friend Jimmy! I hope you have a Great day full of raunchy sex and lots of love. xoxo Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:07:23 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Birthday (NJC) Is it the deputy's birthday today? HAPPY FECKIN BIRTHDAY JIMMY I WILL HAVE YOU BRUCIFIED BEFORE LONG MISS KRUMP XXOO In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:14:24 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: equal rights njc it looks as though England and Wales will be catching up with Canada and others regarding equal rights for gay couples-inheritence, next of kin, pensions etc. a 'civil register'. There has been hoo ha on the tv all morning about it. As with the recent appointment of a gay Bishop, there have been Xtian spokespersons frothing at the mouth all day, attempting to coat their bigotry with virtue. (Fortuantely not all Xtians agree with them). Tho Joni may not want it, i look forward to being able to have a 'piece of paper from city hall'. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:21:50 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears LJC > That's an interesting differentiation. I am not sure I know >what to make of it. Could you elucidate a bit more, Bob ? Sure. People like Joni & Led Zeppelin are POPULAR but not Pop. I was at the gym yesterday and the XM radio was on a 70's "Pop" station, and they played stuff by The Carpenters, Jackson 5, Nilsson, and some one-hit wonders. All pop. And all popular, to be sure. And all talented artists/performers. But they wrote in a style that's totally different than the Bruce Springsteens, Peter Gabriels, and Neil Youngs. > As far as the 2-3 minute pop ditty concept goes, didn't the average song length stretch out a bit over time, with 2-3 minutes being more 50's and early-mid 60's, trending up gradually after that ? So the song length is something of a function of the times. That's just my impression, so I could be all wet on that. > That's true, for the most part...look at Joni's best (and one of her only) "pop" songs - Big Yellow Taxi - it's just barely over two minutes (and can be played in under a minute if you really try!) > In any event, am I to deduce that you feel that the Beatles and Elton John are in substantially different categories for purposes of this commentary ('cause I have them in the same camp in my mind) ? For example, > > Both were mostly "album" artists, no ? Actually, they are probably more like opposites. Yesterday I was just listening to "Tumbleweed Connection", maybe Elton's best work, and thinking that he began as an "album" artist and evolved/devolved into a singles artist, or at least that's how he was marketed. But you take albums like Tumbleweed, or Madman Across The Water, and you see experimentations with different moods & sounds (the heavy use of orchestra on Madman, absent on Tumbleweed). By the time he gets to "Don't Shoot Me" he's focusing more on putting out albums which consist of singles, closer to pop in composition. The Beatles were the other extreme. They began purely as a singles band; indeed, their first several "albums" were nothing more than collections of their single releases. They transitioned from that into album artists, sort of the reverse of what Elton did. Much of what happened in The Beatles' career reflects a like transformation in the music industry, as the "album" became more popular and a medium in their own right. So they have the distinction of being singles artists, album artists, pop singers, rock singers, they pretty much covered the gamut. > Both had great success with hit singles, too. If you think Elton does not know that, may I offer you the set list to his October 2000 DVD "One Night Only - The Greatest Hits" ? That IS an impressive list of hits, and only one I believe pre-dates the period when he re-invented himself as a pop artist based on my above description. > Bobsart (somehow feeling we are pretty much on the same > page on this topic) And I would concur with that. I would also contend that Joni is in a category all her own. Bob NP: Carly Simon, "Little Girl Blue" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 05:31:41 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Recurring Boob Thread, njc At first glance, I thought the subject was "Recurring BOB Thread." lol ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 05:32:47 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: june 30!!!! njc Jimmy baby! Happy, happy birthday!!!! Can't wait to see you!! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 08:40:13 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: june 30!!!! njc Happy Birthday Jimmy! At our age we don't get to celebrate birthdays that are prime numbers very often. So with that, I hope your birthday and your 47th year are both very prime indeed. Thanks for all you do to keep this community a joyous one. Bob NP: Fred Simon, "For Free" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:01:24 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: NJC Katharine Hepburn jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph wrote: >She was difficult to work with in her final years (but who isn't over >ninety?). She turned sentimental in her late career (The Lion in >Winter, On Golden Pond) were in my opinion, terrible terrible wastes of >her talent) when her real gift was for breaking the rules about women >and going against type > I would agree with you about On Golden Pond, but not The Lion In Winter. >She was great in Suddenly Last Summer and Long Day's Journey Into Night >(I wonder if Vanessa Redgrave's Tony-winning performance is now the >definitive version of Mary Tyrone). > It was certainly different than Hepburn's, but by no means better. I thought this was the great role of her movie career, and one that has been seldom matched by anyone in any role. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:10:27 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Katharine Hepburn NJC Emiliano wrote of 'The Philadelphia Story': (I think this movie as the greatest achievement of > classical comedy: I agree wholeheartedly, Emiliano. 'The Philadelphia Story' is a classic. Sophisticated comedy has rarely been done so well. Hepburn, Stewart, Grant and Hussey were are sterling in their respective roles and the material, production and direction (George Cukor) are all first rate. Mark E in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:16:06 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: NJC Katharine Hepburn Jerry Notaro wrote: > jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph wrote: > >> She was difficult to work with in her final years (but who isn't over >> ninety?). She turned sentimental in her late career (The Lion in >> Winter, On Golden Pond) were in my opinion, terrible terrible wastes >> of her talent) when her real gift was for breaking the rules about >> women and going against type >> > I would agree with you about On Golden Pond, but not The Lion In > Winter. I'm with Jerry here. And I don't see what is sentimental about 'The Lion In Winter'. It shows a family dynamic that is classically dysfunctional and doesn't pull any punches. Kate's entrance, floating in on that barge with that music playing is a great scene. She sits on her thrown, her face wrapped in a way that makes those exquisite cheek bones even more commanding and prominent, looking regal and serene. Breathtaking. > >> She was great in Suddenly Last Summer and Long Day's Journey Into >> Night (I wonder if Vanessa Redgrave's Tony-winning performance is >> now the definitive version of Mary Tyrone). >> > It was certainly different than Hepburn's, but by no means better. I > thought this was the great role of her movie career, and one that has > been seldom matched by anyone in any role. > I would love to see Vanessa's version but Kate's would be hard to match. It is a devasting performance. Again, we are in sync, Jerry. Happy belated, btw. Mark E in Seattle recently back from vacation in the midwest ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 07:17:57 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Happy Birthday! To Jimmy Stewart, the JMDL's Sweetheart! 'It's your party. You be host. Happy Birthday, welcome home. And we who are about to die, salute you.' (You know who that is, don't you Jimmy?) xoxo Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:31:55 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: equal rights link njc http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3031332.stm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:16:04 -0400 From: "Bree Mcdonough" Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn I got a little gushy last night when I heard that Katherine use to wait/sleep outside on the floor of Spence's hotel room when he would be on his frequent alcoholic binges. What a love an admiration they must of had for one another! Anyway....when he was through she would go in help him sober up... look presentable..... Another actress that I thought was outstanding was Barbara Stanwych (sp?).....she is not mentioned as often...but wow..so great and classy. Class personified! I try to think what is missing today..with today's actors..is it elegance.....mystery.....?????????? Bree >OH my yes indeed a sad sad day for me as well! One of my idols for sure ad >the classiest and >sassiest - go on you old poop ... muah! Thanks for the memories ... now go >see your knight in >shining armor ... Spence. > >Peace, >Susan > >--- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > > It's a sad day for me. I loved Katherine Hepburn, and she died today at >age > > 96. May she rest in peace and join all the other great actors that have > > passed away. A truly classy woman. > > > > > > Jimmy > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! >http://sbc.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:32:48 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn Bree Mcdonough wrote: > > > > I try to think what is missing today..with today's actors..is it > elegance.....mystery.....?????????? are you aware of Cate Blanchett? She fits the bill...... > > > Bree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 10:37:11 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn I, too, am saddened that a film great has passed, however; I can't join the bandwagon touting what a great person she was. Why? From what I have heard and read, and I may be wrong, she was having an affair with a married man for many years. Admirable? I don't think so. Not any mention made of the wife. Perhaps she was the hero. mack What a love an admiration they must of had > for one another! Anyway....when he was through she would go in help him > sober up... look presentable..... > > Another actress that I thought was outstanding was Barbara Stanwych > (sp?).....she is not mentioned as often...but wow..so great and classy. > Class personified! > > > I try to think what is missing today..with today's actors..is it > elegance.....mystery.....?????????? > > Bree > > > > >OH my yes indeed a sad sad day for me as well! One of my idols for sure ad > >the classiest and > >sassiest - go on you old poop ... muah! Thanks for the memories ... now go > >see your knight in > >shining armor ... Spence. > > > >Peace, > >Susan > > > >--- FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > > > It's a sad day for me. I loved Katherine Hepburn, and she died today at > >age > > > 96. May she rest in peace and join all the other great actors that have > > > passed away. A truly classy woman. > > > > > > > > > Jimmy > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! > >http://sbc.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 16:53:49 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn mack watson-bush wrote: > she was having an affair with a married man >for many years. Admirable? I don't think so. Not any mention made of the >wife. Perhaps she was the hero. > > > spencer tracy had a 'dead' marriage. the only reason the marriage 'lasted' was because Catholics don't get divorced. It could eb said Ms Hepburn was a noble person for putting up with this situation. either way, without full info, i cannot judge, never mind not being perfect myself! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:05:40 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn spencer tracy had a 'dead' marriage. the only reason the marriage > 'lasted' was because Catholics don't get divorced. It could eb said Ms > Hepburn was a noble person for putting up with this situation. either > way, without full info, i cannot judge, never mind not being perfect myself! > - --that's a given. As for the nobility of Ms. Hepburn, it could be said but not here. She was the other woman and Spencer Tracy was cheating on the woman he vowed to love and honor and protect. Guess anyone can rationalize anything they want. As for judging, easy to say 'i don't judge' but the facts don't support the statement. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:22:27 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn mack watson-bush wrote: > protect. Guess anyone can rationalize >anything they want. > yes, you do it so well. judge away, it is your forte. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:25:12 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn keep on believin colin' mack > > > yes, you do it so well. judge away, it is your forte. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 09:49:42 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech I swore to stay away from politics here, but because this speech is getting virtually NO mainstream media coverage, I'd like to pass it on to any of you who are interested. I encourage you to pass it on, too. http://www.senate.gov/~byrd/byrd_speeches/byrd_speeches_2003june/byrd_sp eeches_2003june_list/byrd_speeches_2003june_list_1.html Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:02:25 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech Very interesting Lori. Thanks. Too bad the general american public will never see it. mack - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:49 AM Subject: (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech > I swore to stay away from politics here, but because this speech is > getting virtually NO mainstream media coverage, I'd like to pass it on > to any of you who are interested. I encourage you to pass it on, too. > > http://www.senate.gov/~byrd/byrd_speeches/byrd_speeches_2003june/byrd_sp > eeches_2003june_list/byrd_speeches_2003june_list_1.html > > > Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:06:42 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech lori-if you go to www.tinyurl.com you will find a quick and eays method of sending short urls. I could not get to your link. howebver, i searched and found a numbe rof Byrds speeches. did you eman the one about WMD and Iraq? we ahev the same argument going on here. People calling our PM a liar and the govt getting all hot under the colllar. Is anyone surprised? bw colin > > > >>I swore to stay away from politics here, but because this speech is >>getting virtually NO mainstream media coverage, I'd like to pass it on >>to any of you who are interested. I encourage you to pass it on, too. >> >>http://www.senate.gov/~byrd/byrd_speeches/byrd_speeches_2003june/byrd_sp >>eeches_2003june_list/byrd_speeches_2003june_list_1.html >> >> >>Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:53:28 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: quotes - njc "I never realized until lately that women were supposed to be the inferior sex." "I don't care what is written about me so long as it isn't true." I think most of the people involved in any art always secretly wonder whether they are really there because they're good or there because they're lucky." "Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get - only with what you are expecting to give - which is everything." "If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun." "Death will be a great relief. No more interviews." ~Katharine Hepburn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:28:46 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Fleetwood Mac - Wow! NJC Hell and I had the chance to see Fleetwood Mac together last night and it was fantastic! It took a little while to get into it since we were crammed in the bleacher section, just waiting for the drunk women in front of us to spill beer on us....but it didn't take long to be totally drawn in. Stevie was in GREAT voice and Lindsey's guitar playing was intense. Highlights of the evening were: A gorgeous version of "Beautiful Child," "Gold Dust Woman," "I'm So Afraid," and "Tusk" (with an interesting marching band video playing on the screens.) We were also surprised that they included "Stand Back." They know how to please the crowd! Mick did a loooooong solo - normally drum solos aren't the highlight of a concert for either of us, but he got the crowd going, and even had an electronic drum unit strapped around his waist, so he was mobile! Christine McVie was noticeably absent (particularly on harmonies) especially since they only performed one of her songs (Don't Stop), but they are still a major force without her. Highlights for Hell (including those above!) were Lindsey's guitar solos on "Come" and "I'm So Afraid" - he certainly hasn't lost his passion for performing! Kerry (and Hell) - we recommend Fleetwood Mac fans see them on this tour! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:53:53 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: animal souls (njc) colin >Mind you, i think all is part of the Great Spririt. you me, them, everyhting. Like we are drops of water and God is the ocean....all are one.< colin, that is so beautifully said...i agree & believe that every living thing has a soul, an essence that can not be perceived by our 5 senses but can be 'felt' nonetheless...remember that cool thread we had going on trees a few years back? there are huge boulders in the area where i live that emit an amazing presence so perhaps they too have souls...how about cars, guitars, etc? www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:53:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: NJC katharine hepburn she was a great inspiration to me & how sad that she is gone...may she rest in peace...she was one of my namesakes & i always am honored that my parents chose to spell my name as hers was...with an a...(katharine)... www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:16:44 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears LJC One of the Bob's or is it the Bob I forget wrote: > > Actually, they are probably more like opposites. Yesterday I > was just listening to "Tumbleweed Connection", maybe Elton's > best work, and thinking that he began as an "album" artist and > evolved/devolved into a singles artist, or at least that's how > he was marketed. But you take albums like Tumbleweed, or Madman > Across The Water, and you see experimentations with different > moods & sounds (the heavy use of orchestra on Madman, absent on > Tumbleweed). By the time he gets to "Don't Shoot Me" he's > focusing more on putting out albums which consist of singles, > closer to pop in composition. > I love Tumbleweed Connection as well. Altho I think he was always trying for singles he did follow that album concept thing up till about Goodbye Yellowbrick Road, then I think the drugs really kicked in and fecked everything up. I think you are right on with these thoughts Bob as "in the day" it was really more about albums. Speaking of "in the day" I rented Led Zeps new DVD and am positively floored. This is some amazing sounding concert footage. The band is in fine form from several different parts of their career. The video footage ain't all that, but it sure sounds good. I can't wait to get the new CD sometime in the near future. My friend at Tower gave me the new Joni DVD re-release of Shadows and Light as well as Roger's The Wall. I am all set for some major video and music appreciation while we wait out Tropical Storm Bill to finish trying to wash us away. Paz (treading water) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:27:10 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears LJC In a message dated 6/30/2003 4:16:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, michael@thepazgroup.com writes: > Speaking of "in the day" I rented Led > Zeps new DVD and am positively floored. I've read nothing but raves about that DVD and also the CD stuff, looks like Zep's gonna have another banner year & rightfully so - They're my fave band from the "classic rock era" and imo everything they've done has stood the test of time. Hopefully I'll get a chance to catch that soon. Elton John did drugs? Well I've learned something new today. ;~) Bob NP: Sleater-Kinney, "Buy Her Candy" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:00:10 EDT From: LCStanley7@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #342 was having a discussion with a special somebody on the list about animals and their souls. . . I thought I would ask YOU: Do animals have souls? What do you think? Marianne Dear Marianne: A Carmelite friar once told me something like people are spirit because they interact with God who is spirit; they are body because they interact with the physical world, and they are soul because they are alive. If one un derstands the definition of soul as the life principle of the individual, then animals definitely have a soul. The topic of soul and body is very interesting. The Greeks are where we get the concept of each being a unique *part* of the being. The Isrealites rejected a distinction between body and soul because such distinction compromised the living unity of the being. I tend to agree with the latter school. The terms spirit and soul are tossed around rather loosely for the most part in discussions. Often, soul and spirit are taken to mean the same thing. We find reference to the soul as departing from the body after death and going to heaven and likewise reference to the spirit leaving the body upon death. Those who believe in the resurrection of the dead understand that at the resurrection, the body and the soul (or spirit) will be united eternally. If so, one might ask, are they ever 'really' separated? The "remains" of individuals are held sacred for this reason. What we see now is for sure not everything that is. The term "spirit" is from the Hebrew word "ruh" or the Greek word "pneuma" which basically are in reference to air or breath. When a person dies, they quit breathing. The spirit or breath leaves the body. In scripture, we are told that Yahweh breathed life into man and into animals and that the fate of both is similar. Perhaps if the song Turn, Turn, Turn would have been longer, this would have been included in the lyrics because in chapter three of Ecclesiastes, where the song was taken from it says, "For the lot of man and of beast is one lot; the one dies as well as the other. Both have the same life-breath, and man has no advantage over the beast; but all is vanity. Both go to the same place; both were made from dust and to the dust they both return. Who knows if the life-breath of the children of men goes upward and the life-breath of beasts goes earthward?" (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21) Scriptures indicate that the spirit or the life-breath of both humans and animals returns to God as Ecclesiastes goes on in chapter 12 verse 7 to say: "And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath returns to God who gave it." What happens to the spirits of humans and animals beyond that is God's will and beyond our knowing at least for now. Warmly, Dr. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:29:28 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: quotes - njc Thanks for sharing these. Strange sychronicity....I was just thinking about Katharine last week and wondering how she was doing. She has been my hero and role model for as long as I can remember... Kerry - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Notaro To: Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:53 PM Subject: quotes - njc > "I never realized until lately that women were supposed to be the > inferior sex." > > "I don't care what is written about me so long as it isn't true." > > I think most of the people involved in any art always secretly wonder > whether they are really there because they're good or there because > they're lucky." > > "Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get - only with > what you are expecting to give - which is everything." > > "If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun." > > "Death will be a great relief. No more interviews." > > > ~Katharine Hepburn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:08:37 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: bringing up baby NJC and who can forget cary grant's immortal words in bringing up baby! dressed in a woman's mighty, he shrieks: "i just went gay all of a sudden! i'm just sitting in the middle of 42nd street waiting for a bus!". such lines spoken on the spur of the moment, critics say... wally, who was SO surprised when hepburn confessed that she had faked her birthday date and was not a scorpio but a taurus. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:17:11 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: bringing up baby NJC of course, i meant a woman's NIGHTIE in my previous message. wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:13:49 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: animal souls (njc) If you're asking me if my cat is pleased to have dinner, then in the Buddhist sense, yes. If you're asking me if my cat contemplates guilt when overeating, in the Roman Catholic sense, no. Fair? Lama >>>>>> I was having a discussion with a special somebody on the list about animals and their souls. . . I thought I would ask YOU: Do animals have souls? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:21:18 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: joni on history of rock & roll 100% JC In the PBS special, "Joni Mitchell: A Woman of Heart and Mind", they talked about how Rolling Stone diagrammed their guesses at Joni's lovers. (Guesses at most, obviously) Joni said it was the old idea that a woman is either a whore or a Madonna, that "free love" may have been free of consequences for the men but not for the women. Then she said, "Same as it ever was." Lama >>>i wonder what she meant by that? Who does she think it 'failed' for? bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:30:28 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: NJC katherine hepburn "On Golden Pond" Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:00:40 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: the art of songwriting, via Britney Spears LJC Bob, Just two observations: 1.) on the Beatles: There were two "Beatles". The original band was a singles band. In the UK, they put out "EP" records that were just a bunch of tracks. This was ~63 to about 66. Over in the USA, Capitol added other tracks to make them longer, to fit the LP format. The skiffle band did not set out to make 10 related tracks. There were many of those and I don't own them all. The second band, of the same name, is widely regarded as having made a couple of "concept" albums. Sir James Paul McCartney begs to differ, saying that "Sgt Pepper" is really a bunch of wildly different tracks that have an intro and a reprise of the intro. Putting a bookend at the left and a similar bookend at the right does not change unrelated books into a set of encyclopedia, I guess. When you think about it, "Fixing A Hole" is like Seinfeld - it isn't about anything at all. When I ponder whether it is more like "Being For the Benefit Of Mister Kite" or "The Ballad Of John and Yoko", I think I see what the Mac meant. Obviously, I'm not taking anything away from Sgt. Pepper. Same thing with "Abbey Road". There were so many ideas that Martin and McCartney wove them together on side two. Brilliantly. With great brilliance they wove those unrelated threads into one of my favorite tapesties. 2.) on Elton, I believe you when you say that his concert at Madison Square Garden lacks sparkling clarity. Almost anytime they put 50 yards between a microphone and the mixing console, they lose 99% of the clarity, in my opinion. Another example of a lack of clarity from a very high profile artist is Bruce Springsteen's recent live show. Most of the live tracks on his anthology are much clearer. (Exception: the AMAZING 4 CDs that Paz gave me of YES shows.) If you want live Elton when he was making art songs, before he started making pop songs, buy "11-17-70". Legend has it they taped an appearance at a radio station. Hence, short mic leads, therefore clarity. I'm not saying clarity is everything. I hope that's uhhhh... clear. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:49:03 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: june 30!!!! njc A big thanks to the BD fairy (and Wally) and to the rest of you for making yet another birthday special. Thanks for the emails, cards, phone calls, flowers, CD's, gift certificates, jewelry, fur coat (thanks Paz), and that car!!! (Oh Mr. Muller, you spoil me so....how did you know I wanted a convertible?) Now the party begins! love to you all, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 18:53:52 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Happy Birthday! NJC In a message dated 6/30/2003 10:18:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > 'It's your party. You be host. Happy Birthday, welcome home. And we > who are about to die, salute you.' > Why Mark, you sly puss. :~) I'm so glad your Bette side came out. LOL Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 00:59:47 +0100 From: tantra-apso Subject: Re: joni on history of rock & roll 100% JC Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: > >Joni said it was the old idea that a woman is either a whore or a Madonna, >that "free love" may have been free of consequences for the men but not for >the women. > oh. so at that point, she hadn't heard of gays then? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:08:53 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: NJC katherine hepburn many people have gathered outside her home in Saybrook, CT .... about 20 minutes from my house. Back in the 90's, Ms Hepburn still liked to shop on Main St. in Old Saybrook. I always thought she was a classy act and very pretty. I like how she made wearing pants (for women) very acceptable back in the 30's. Hartford's own will be missed. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of FMYFL@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 8:48 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: NJC katherine hepburn It's a sad day for me. I loved Katherine Hepburn, and she died today at age 96. May she rest in peace and join all the other great actors that have passed away. A truly classy woman. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:16:16 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: quotes - njc And isn't Kate Hepburn's birthday Nov. 8th?? Very close to you know who. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:53 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: quotes - njc "I never realized until lately that women were supposed to be the inferior sex." "I don't care what is written about me so long as it isn't true." I think most of the people involved in any art always secretly wonder whether they are really there because they're good or there because they're lucky." "Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get - only with what you are expecting to give - which is everything." "If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun." "Death will be a great relief. No more interviews." ~Katharine Hepburn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:20:08 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: quotes - njc oops - my husband just informed me that she had a brother who died and used to celebrate his birthday as hers (??) wally ... any info about this? heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 8:16 PM To: Jerry Notaro; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: quotes - njc And isn't Kate Hepburn's birthday Nov. 8th?? Very close to you know who. Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:53 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: quotes - njc "I never realized until lately that women were supposed to be the inferior sex." "I don't care what is written about me so long as it isn't true." I think most of the people involved in any art always secretly wonder whether they are really there because they're good or there because they're lucky." "Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get - only with what you are expecting to give - which is everything." "If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun." "Death will be a great relief. No more interviews." ~Katharine Hepburn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:50:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: Hepburn's real BD njc yes, that was i meant in my previous message. for decades KH said that her BD was in november but in her autobiography (i think it's called "ME") the first few paragraphs are devoted to explaining that her actual BD was (i think) may 13. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Heather Enviado el: Lunes, 30 de Junio de 2003 09:20 p.m. Para: Jerry Notaro; joni@smoe.org Asunto: RE: quotes - njc oops - my husband just informed me that she had a brother who died and used to celebrate his birthday as hers (??) wally ... any info about this? heather ~Katharine Hepburn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:20:39 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: A Special Request Is there anybody that lives in the Columbus, Ohio area (LAMA DAMA DOO???? I KNOW YOU LIVE IN CINNCITY) that would like to go to Lollapolooza on July 13th ??? My friend is coming from Honduras tomorrow and she asked me to get tickets for her. They only come in two's or some crazy thing like that so I got her two. Anyways the deal is this. She would give you the ticket to be her escort so she has someone that can pick her up at the airport and drop her back there after the show. In return you get in for free. She wanted me to go (all expenses paid) but I just can't miss anymore work than I am this summer. Anyways I would appreciate it if she had someone to keep her company in a foreign place (for her). Reply to me privately. Best Paz P.S. My apologies for the Joni Only's as I thought that there might be someone in that circle that might like to do this (or maybe not). LoL. Thanks anyways! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:08:49 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: jonifest njc >SATURDAY 3:30-5:00 PM SONGWRITING: BRINGING IT HOME Facilitator: Yael Harlap THE BARN Taking the baton from Kate and Jeff....< woohoo, we are both so thrilled that you are doing this yael! www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:17:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: june 30!!!! njc Jimmy! OH my dearest one - as fest approaches I dream nightly of you in your Speedo preparing your first movement in your Synchronized Swim routine! Happy Freaking Birthday Darling! Hope its a big splash for you! See you soon with kisses for your Birthday! OH HAPPY DAY! Peace, Susan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 19:27:30 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: (NJC) Senator Byrd's 6/24 speech > www.tinyurl.com Thanks for the link, Colin. Sorry for the confusion, everyone. My email program splits links for some reason. Try this link: http://byrd.senate.gov/ Then click on "Speeches" in the left frame, then on June under 2003. Peace, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:48:47 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: bloody funny (NJC) Welcome to the fold, Ash. Any fan of Maddy Prior (not to mention Joni) is a friend of mine! I was in Australia in 1998 and met quite a few JMDLers while I was there. (Hi everyone Down Under!!!!!! Miss you!!!!!!) Enjoy your time here. You should come to Jonifest! Hell, if Ron Greer can come from South Africa, and Hell can come from New Zealand, then surely Tasmania is only a hop, skip and a jump from Jonifest!! :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:41:25 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: quotes - njc Heather writes: << And isn't Kate Hepburn's birthday Nov. 8th?? Very close to you know who. >> Funny you mention that, Heather. I saw a photo of Kate from the 1930s today and was immediately struck by a resemblance in the photo to you-know-who. Something about the shape of the mouth and -- of course -- the cheek bones and the bold, confident look. Here's my Kate story: In the early 90s I worked for about 3 1/2 years on the same block that Hepburn's NYC townhouse was on. About once a month or so, various coworkers would come in to work gushing about how they had just seen her or talked to her as she was shoveling snow or getting out of a car. I used to walk past her house at least once a day coming to work in the morning and leaving at night, or at lunch time. I never as much as caught a glimpse her, although I did pass her open door a few times. Knowing how fond she was of pink Irish-American men, I thought we'd become great friends if Fate would only throw us together one fine spring day when the calla lilies were in bloom again. I used to see Kurt Vonnegut and other famous people from that neighborhood all the time, but dear Kate was spared any intrusions upon her life from me. Which reminds me . . . does anyone remember those stuffed animal dashounds from the 60s or 70s called autograph hounds? You could have your friends or famous people autograph them? Well, I just wanted to say that I did not have one of those while I was stalking Ms. Hepburn. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:59:56 -0400 From: simon@icu.com Subject: A WebSite devoted to Joni? (aka: http://www.JoniMitchell.com) wrote and asked ... > ----- > > > Wouldn't it be great if there was a website devoted > to Joni that made these sort of announcements? > > Bob > ----- and then wrote asking ... >> ----- >> Wouldn't it be great if there was a website devoted >> to Joni that made these sort of announcements? >> >> Bob > > Yes, it would. I have asked politely before, > but now will ask more directly (in case anyone knows) > ...What the fuck is up with jonimitchell.com ? > > Bryan > ----- Bryan, in answer to the first question, there IS. http://www.JoniMitchell.com her 'Official' WebSite. as for the second ... i spoke with Jim Johanson yesterday afternoon (6-29-03). when he first answered the telephone, i was concerned. the poor guy sounded totally tapped out. i found out why. Jet Lag. Jim had just retured from Italy on saturday, and still hadn't fully recovered. he left in early May thinking he'd be able to access the WebServer from Italy as well as retrieve his eMail messages. well, downloading eMail wasn't a problem although it was necessary to 'Pay' an exorbitant fee for internet access time in the small town where he was staying. for unknown reasons, getting onto the WebServer was impossible and out of the question, therefore no updates. SO, although he no doubt rec'd the Press Releases that Joel and I asked The SHOUT! FACTORY to pass along to , he clearly wasn't in a position to post anything to the site. besides ... one doesn't GO to Italy and then spend all his time staring into a laptop computer. there's a reason they call it a vacation. Jim told me that he expects to have something up RE: S&L within the next few days. stay tuned to http://www.JoniMitchell.com in the meantime, I posted the relevant press releases last week and will repost them shortly in seperate messages that will follow this one. andmoreagain, - --------------- simon PS: Remember, there's a difference between kneeling down and bending over -- FZ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #343 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)