From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #322 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, June 11 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 322 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni's smoking njc ["mike pritchard" ] Re: joni's smoking njc [colin ] WOHAM DVD/VOICES catalogue ["vincenzo mancini" ] Re: cadmium -- NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #188 - time to quit? ["Lori Fye" ] Perma-Vine whereabouts ["Emily M. Griskavich" ] Art in Barcelona NJC [dsk ] Re: cadmium -- NJC [colin ] Re: joni's smoking njc [colin ] Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Art in Barcelona NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re:women raising sons to become men who control women (was joni smoking njc) [cul heath ] For Annie Lennox fans (no joan) [Little Bird ] Re:women raising sons to become men who control women (was joni smoking njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: For Annie Lennox fans (no joan) njc! [colin ] Re: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin [vince ] spencer tunick, photographer, was RE: Art in Barcelona NJC ["patrick lead] Re: joni's smoking njc now LOOKSism [Catherine McKay ] Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: shaving NJC Very NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: shaving NJC Very NJC [colin ] NJC: New "Dan" in town- TODAY!!! ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Shaving NJC Very NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin [vince ] 'everything must go', 2 capsule reviews, njc ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: joni's smoking njc >>And even to this day it freaks American boys and girls out on the beach to see a naturally hirsute female. "Yech", I believe is the correct response. Hence there is a certain degree of addiction to the need to shave legs and armpits in order to comply with the cultural norm.<< I'm not sure if 'Yech' is the 'correct' response, although it may be the most frequent in the US. Here in Spain it is somewhat similar, though not taken so far. My limited (unfortunately) experience of German women however suggests that they have no problem with having underarm hair whether on the beach or in the office, and they are certainly relaxed about the whole matter. I do not agree with Colin's remark about a 'male dictat'. To me, women can shave or not, it's up to them. I don't know any men who would respond with a 'Yech' to female hair, or who would try to dictate women's behaviour in this matter. mike in bcn np - A Tribute to Miles - Hancock, Shorter, Carter, Williams and Roney. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:19:54 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: joni's smoking njc mike pritchard wrote: > I do not >agree with Colin's remark about a 'male dictat'. To me, women can shave or >not, it's up to them. > i meant it in the sense that men seem to dicate what women should look like-hairless, big breasted, thin, pretty, big lips etc. A least that is what women always tell us. that they suffer because of what men demand and the images of women that men portray in the media. Shaving armpits, legs and 'bikini line' is just another facet of this. Interestingly, the image of young muscled men, with large cut penises, six packs etc are also put out by men, be they str8 or gay. Maybe there is a reason why men are referred to as the 'stronger sex'-we seem to have so much power that no one can resist.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:31:32 +0000 From: "vincenzo mancini" Subject: WOHAM DVD/VOICES catalogue Is any good soul out there whos going to get his own copy of the WOHAM DVD (catalogue: EV 30039-9-DVD5) and get also another for me? Any getting the "Voices" catalogue? About a week ago I launched a similar mail (tagging it NJC) asking also for the S&L DVD that -meanwhile- is going to be -hopefully soon- delivered to me I contacted both Eagle Rock (rgill@eaglerockent.com) and the Canadian museum (three times!) and while the former did at least reply, although negatively [Date : Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:20:40 -0400 Vincenzo Hello, unfortunately at this time we do not have our own mail order. You should be able to find the DVD in local music / video stores in Italy. Rob Gill VP Marketing & Promotion Eagle Rock Ent 22 West 38th St 7th Floor New York, NY 10018 212-354-1101 ph 212-354-1103 fx rgill@eaglerockent.com www.eaglerockent.com ], the latter did not even have done it Please contact me off-list for details. Vincenzo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:29:54 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni's smoking njc - hair today, gone tomorrow Cul, this was a very interesting post! > And even to this day it freaks American boys and girls out on the > beach to see a naturally hirsute female. "Yech", I believe is the > correct response. Or, if you happen to be walking in the French Quarter of New Orleans with a group of Latina friends, none of whom shave their armpits, the response from a carload of passing frat boys is: "Hey, don't women in your country shave????!!!!" > Another charming aspect of the "short hair equals patriotism" meme was > that long haired males in the 60's and 70's were harrassed in the > extreme for wearing hair styles that were exactly the same as the > founding fathers and even Jesus Christ . My dad, who is Dr. Phil-bald and extra macho, could not bear for his sons to wear their hair long. It just drove him nuts. In the 70s, though, I defended my brother's desire to grow his hair by telling my dad that only gay guys wore their hair so short. This appalled and confused my dad, and he ended up relenting about the hair issue. Of course, what I didn't tell him was that my brother was gay ... ; ) Lori, home today with a "bad back" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:42:45 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: joni's smoking njc Colin wrote: > i meant it in the sense that men seem to dicate what women should > look like-hairless, big breasted, thin, pretty, big lips etc. A least > that is what women always tell us. that they suffer because of what > men demand and the images of women that men portray in the media. Men may well be "more" in charge of the media and the images it spits out, but in my experience it's women reacting to other women's opinions when it comes to changing their appearances. Or perhaps the reaction is due to perceived competition. Whichever it is, it's horrible and it leads to all kinds of disorders. For instance, it's obviously healthier to not be overweight/obese, but is STRESSING OUT about your weight and appearance healthy?? Doesn't seem like a very good exchange, imo. Or ... let's inject Botox (tox = toxic?) into our faces so we don't show wrinkles. Why not appreciate lines of wisdom instead?? Lori, off to color her hair now ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 06:52:18 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: cadmium -- NJC "Green," that was a great post about cadmium, etc. Especially this: > She's pissing in yer fireplace guys. Get over it. OH, yeah ... she is, isn't she?? > I also think that some people are hypercritical of smokers because > they have absolutely nothing that makes them feel good about > themselves other than the fact that they don't smoke. Eeek! Bob, that reminds me of many people in AA who insist that everyone who has ever taken a drink is an alcoholic ... What is it with the notion that *I* am better than anyone else because of doing/not doing [fill in the blank]? Sheesh. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:05:26 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #188 - time to quit? > all i have to do is look at the joni mitchell shelf of my cd > collection and i realize the vast treasure she has given me. Bravo to that, Terry! All this whining about Joni's changing voice -- be it due to smoking or aging or a whole lotta singing over so many years -- reminds me of those who've whined whenever Joni decided to change her style. It's the same damn thing. Time marches on, and so will Joni, to her own drummer. Thank god. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:47:12 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Perma Vines -- Where Art Thou? Stu Rutherford wrote: > > By the way, I still think this is a gread idea and I hope there will be > another permavine coming up soon! I think it's a great idea, too, since it takes some of the burden off of the few people who've been making copies for everyone. Most recordings, including this Joni/James one, have been circulating among list members for years, which may be one reason why most long-time JMDLers didn't respond. My favorite thing about the permavine is seeing new names on the list. Since I haven't gotten around yet to making my request of Bob Muller for copies of almost everything, I now have one of the originals of this permavine Joni/James BBC show. It's a wonderful recording, surprisingly clear, and it's great hearing young Joni (and she does do some low notes). James sounds good, too, especially the way his voice and Joni's blend on some of the songs, and the way his guitar playing enriches the sound of her dulcimer. So, whoever would like a copy, or the original, please let me know. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:52:28 -0500 From: "Emily M. Griskavich" Subject: Perma-Vine whereabouts Dear Everyone, I, too, have a perma-vine original and no one has asked for it after two postings and three weeks. If nobody asks for it within the next two weeks, I'm giving it to a friend in Wisconsin and having her pass it around to her friends. - -Emily [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:52:28 -0500 From: "Emily M. Griskavich" Subject: Perma-Vine whereabouts Dear Everyone, I, too, have a perma-vine original and no one has asked for it after two postings and three weeks. If nobody asks for it within the next two weeks, I'm giving it to a friend in Wisconsin and having her pass it around to her friends. - -Emily ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:17:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jamie=20Zubairi?= Subject: Re: WOHAM DVD/VOICES catalogue Ciao Vincenzo I have bought a copy of WOHAM Region 1 (region 2 follows on the 30th of June but I couldn't wait!!!) from www.play.com at GBP #11.99 delivered. I assume it's not much more to Italy. As for the voices, have you tried the mendel gallery itself? Still haven't received WOHAM but I hope it's sitting my my floor as we speak Much Joni Jamie zoob --- vincenzo mancini wrote: > Is any good soul out there whos going to get his > own copy of the WOHAM > DVD (catalogue: EV 30039-9-DVD5) and get also > another for me? > > __________________________________________________ Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:21:19 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Shaving NJC Very NJC no, that should make you a ..LIBRA! wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de BRYAN8847@aol.com Enviado el: Martes, 10 de Junio de 2003 03:35 a.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Shaving NJC Very NJC Anyway, I'm an adult male (confession time) who, sort of, shaves his armpits...not all they way, but most of the hair. Does that make me a pre-pubescent female? Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:54:36 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Art in Barcelona NJC From yesterday's NY Times: "The English seemed a bit more giggly," he said. "I get the impression that half of the people here will be naked later today, anyway." His friend Jane Hyde, 44, said of the apparent Spanish tendency to spank their own naked rear ends as a form of applause, "That bottom-smacking thing is rude!" Entire article is at: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/09/international/europe/09BARC.html?ex=1056214253&ei=1&en=24a28c3f17183b97 Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:12:27 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: cadmium -- NJC >Eeek! Bob, that reminds me of many people in AA who insist that >everyone who has ever taken a drink is an alcoholic ... > there are arseholes everywhere, Lori! > >What is it with the notion that *I* am better than anyone else because >of doing/not doing [fill in the blank]? > desperation on the part of those that don't feel good about themselves. > >Sheesh. > >Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:14:44 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: joni's smoking njc Lori Fye wrote: >Colin wrote: > > > >>i meant it in the sense that men seem to dicate what women should >>look like-hairless, big breasted, thin, pretty, big lips etc. A least >>that is what women always tell us. that they suffer because of what >>men demand and the images of women that men portray in the media. >> >> > >Men may well be "more" in charge of the media and the images it spits >out, but in my experience it's women reacting to other women's opinions >when it comes to changing their appearances. > i hink that has much to do with it too. Plus low self esteem in the first place. > >Whichever it is, it's horrible and it leads to all kinds of disorders. >For instance, it's obviously healthier to not be overweight/obese, but >is STRESSING OUT about your weight and appearance healthy?? Doesn't >seem like a very good exchange, imo. > obesssion is not good for one's health. > >Or ... let's inject Botox (tox = toxic?) into our faces so we don't >show wrinkles. Why not appreciate lines of wisdom instead?? > and what is it with those lips being pumpeed. hasn't anyone told them how stupid it looks? Lived in faces are so characterful. Why ruin them with lifts etc? One has earned ones' face-don't deny yourself it's character. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:20:48 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC I wrote: << I also think that some people are hypercritical of smokers because they have absolutely nothing that makes them feel good about themselves other than the fact that they don't smoke. And Lori responded: << Eeek! Bob, that reminds me of many people in AA who insist that everyone who has ever taken a drink is an alcoholic ... >> Lori, dear, I am not sure what you mean, but if you're saying MY statement sounds like the AA people you mentioned, I'd like to point out that I said "some people." (And if the following sounds heated, Lori, it's not really and it's not aimed at you! I'm serious about that, so rest assured that I'm not being passive/aggressive!) Of course there are people who are allergic, have lost loved ones to smoking-related causes, etc. But there seem to be many people -- including children! - -- who feel they have every right to criticize and admonish strangers in the streets for their smoking habit. Why? To educate them on the dangers of smoking when taxes on cigarettes pay for hundreds of millions of dollars worth of antismoking ads every year? No, I say! These nonsmoking idiots can't just walk by a smoker and think "poor addicted soul . . . there but for the grace of God . . . " They have to say something negative because they have nothing inside -- no sense of self-worth, accomplishment, peace . . . nothing! -- that tells them that they are okay and are in the presence of an addict who deserves compassion, not scorn. Putting down smokers is just a cheap way to instantly elevate their own self-images, which are probably better off left on a lower level. There! Is That a little clearer? Also, I had a complaint last night from a lister whose name is listed under another lister's picture on the Jonifest 2002 page. Who is in charge of the page now? I did lots more captions than ever made it to the page. Is it still being worked on? Can anyone answer my questions? Got a light? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:21:05 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Art in Barcelona NJC last summer tunick did his photo thing a few blocks away from where i live so some friends and i decided to join in. i think there were about 2,000 people, most of them in their 40's and 50's. we got together at about 3:30 am. it was sooooo windy and chilly, one of those summer mornings after a summer storm. it was fun to be naked (if only for a few minutes) on a 16-lane avenue. a few weeks later i joined the naked crowd again on a beach south of buenos aires. lots of familiar faces there too ;-D wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de dsk Enviado el: Martes, 10 de Junio de 2003 01:55 p.m. Para: joni@smoe.org Asunto: Art in Barcelona NJC Entire article is at: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/09/international/europe/09BARC.html?ex=105621 4253&ei=1&en=24a28c3f17183b97 Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:24:57 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: Re:women raising sons to become men who control women (was joni smoking njc) colin wrote: i meant it in the sense that men seem to dicate what women should look like-hairless, big breasted, thin, pretty, big lips etc. A least that is what women always tell us. that they suffer because of what men demand and the images of women that men portray in the media. Shaving armpits, legs and 'bikini line' is just another facet of this. Interestingly, the image of young muscled men, with large cut penises, six packs etc are also put out by men, be they str8 or gay. Maybe there is a reason why men are referred to as the 'stronger sex'-we seem to have so much power that no one can resist.... now the really weird aspect of all that, is that it is primarily the women who are responsible for raising the sons and instilling in them the values which make the sons become the men who control the women raising the sons who...etc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:35:12 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: women raising sons to become men who control women (was joni smoking njc) cul heath wrote: >colin wrote: > > > >now the really weird aspect of all that, is that it is primarily the >women who are responsible for raising the sons and instilling in them the >values which make the sons become the men who control the women raising >the sons who...etc > A fact i noted a long time ago. A good example: next door neighbour-feminist lesbian-two children-one a boy-one day the boy-aged about 9-starts to cry about somehting and feminist lesbian mother admonishes him for being 'girly'. Even ordinary women do this all the time to boys. Boys are taught from dot to suppress/repress their tender feelings and we wonder why men grow up the way they do.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 11:47:07 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: shaving NJC Very NJC BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: >THAT'S why women have been "encouraged" to shave? I had no idea it was that >insidious. Anyway, I'm an adult male (confession time) who, sort of, shaves his >armpits...not all they way, but most of the hair. Does that make me a >pre-pubescent female? Maybe that's why I'm having trouble getting dates. > maybe its the design of the arm pit cut ...and what's with the pulled punch as it were?...like do your pits have a particular coif that you shoot for each time, or is it a random compulsion based on motives we might not want to know until we are safely back in our own cars with motor already running? hahaha cul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:54:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: For Annie Lennox fans (no joan) Extra! Extra! Get her new album "Bare" which is out in stores now. You will NOT be disappointed! This is some of her strongest solo work ever, and for any fan of this remarkable singer/songwriter it is a must-have! Two of the songs left me blubbering on the floor like a fool while others made me get up and dance - it's classic Annie! Stepping down from the soap box, Andrew __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:25:16 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re:women raising sons to become men who control women (was joni smoking njc) Cul wrote: > now the really weird aspect of all that, is that it is primarily the > women who are responsible for raising the sons and instilling in them > the values which make the sons become the men who control the women > raising the sons who...etc That's very true, and isn't it fucked up? Just as an example ... My mother (who I love dearly, may she rest in peace) spoiled the shit out of my youngest brother. She cooked for him, cleaned up after him, washed his clothes, etc. He lived with her (paying rent, but still) until he was 28. He's married now and expects his wife -- who works at least 40 hours a week, just like he does, but on rotating shifts instead of 7:30-4:30 -- to do the same thing. Of course SHE laments this. Meanwhile, whenever HER mom isn't able to do it, my sister-in- law drives 15 miles to her parents home to lay out her father's clothes and pack his lunch before he goes to work. The man is in his 50s and is not unable to do these things for himself. But of course HIS mother raised him to expect it, his wife continued the habit, and his daughter goes right along with it. I'm glad my brother and sister-in-law have two girls and are not planning to have more kids, otherwise they would be raising a son this way. May the circle be broken, right now. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:04:18 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: For Annie Lennox fans (no joan) njc! Andrew, Following on from previous postings about tagging emails, please note (and anyone else who uses this tag) that you need to use the tag "njc", which actually enables the emails to be filtered automatically; "No Joan" will warn people that it's not about you-know-who, but it won't help the filtering process one jot. Erm, that is right isn't it, experts?? Azeem in London NP: Til Tuesday - Welcome Home (one of the greatest 80s albums, as well as one of the greatest albums of the 80s - not the same thing!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:11:26 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: For Annie Lennox fans (no joan) njc! yes it s right. I cnanot for the life of me understand why people still insist on using 'no joan' ;vljc'sljc' etc. it doens;t help the Joni onlies who do not want any post that is not about Joni. tags other than NJC are poppycock. AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: >Andrew, > >Following on from previous postings about tagging emails, please note (and >anyone else who uses this tag) that you need to use the tag "njc", which >actually enables the emails to be filtered automatically; "No Joan" will warn people >that it's not about you-know-who, but it won't help the filtering process one >jot. > >Erm, that is right isn't it, experts?? > >Azeem in London >NP: Til Tuesday - Welcome Home (one of the greatest 80s albums, as well as >one of the greatest albums of the 80s - not the same thing!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:14:08 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: shaving NJC Very NJC cul heath wrote: > BRYAN8847@aol.com wrote: > >> THAT'S why women have been "encouraged" to shave? I had no idea it >> was that insidious. Anyway, I'm an adult male (confession time) who, >> sort of, shaves his armpits...not all they way, but most of the hair. >> Does that make me a pre-pubescent female? Maybe that's why I'm having >> trouble getting dates. >> > tho i have not heard of this, plenty of adults shave their pubic hair. I don't like it. It looks weird and too child like for my taste. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:47:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: For Annie Lennox fans (no joan) njc! Little Bird wrote: >And I can't for the life of me understand why people >are so hell bent on filtering out ideas other than >what they want to hear. The subject line obviously >indicates it's not about Joni so just delete the >fucking thing. It boggles my mind, actually, how >fascist you people can be about such an innocent thing >as recommending an album to others who might enjoy it. >And it's quite sad. Neither of you send a personal >email to me ever again, please and thank you. > The njc tag exists because those on the Joni Only list decided they did not want posts not about Joni. That is their right. No one else has the right to judge them for it, nor to overide it .( i am not a Joni Only). i do hope your mood and politeness level improve. as for never sending you an email, well, i might if i follow your lead and decide for myself whether or not you should get one..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:06:07 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: (no joan) njc! the server is set up top separate the posts by the NJC so that the joni onlies do not get the NJC - that is why NJC must be in the thread title. As well, my message filters are set up with all NJC stuff going into a different file that the rest of my email, it helps me keep a handle on incoming emails. That allows me to savor the NJCs in one reading (easier to follow) rather than have to try and separate out everything in my inbox. My church mail goes into a different file as well as baseball posts, as well as some other things I group in order to prevent 129 emails without any way to distinguish what they are and to what they apply. And I can't for the life of me understand why people are so hell bent on not respecting a long standing agreement that has held this community together. The word fascist is really misused here and I felt like responding to that, but in the spirit of community, I won't. Vince > Little Bird wrote: > >> And I can't for the life of me understand why people >> are so hell bent on filtering out ideas other than >> what they want to hear. The subject line obviously >> indicates it's not about Joni so just delete the >> fucking thing. It boggles my mind, actually, how >> fascist you people can be about such an innocent thing >> as recommending an album to others who might enjoy it. >> And it's quite sad. Neither of you send a personal >> email to me ever again, please and thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 19:15:47 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin Les Irvin wrote: > > Interestingly, there's an "error" in the movie. The book (and maybe > even the movie) states that Wladyslaw played Nocturne in C# Minor for > the German officer. the book does state that, the movie didn't as I recall, and it was the Nocturne that was played in the opening scene in the movie when the radio station is bombed. The book only says it was a Chopin program and does not indicate which was the last solo piece to be broadcast when they were cut off the air. > But in fact the piece that they actually played in the movie at that > point was an edited version of the Ballade #1 in G Minor. > > Don't know why they chose to switch - maybe the pianist couldn't play > the Nocturne. but they did in the opening scene, didn't they - maybe they felt its use there was more poignant - the pianist who actually played is a leading pianist in Poland so doubtful there was something he could not play. Maybe the Nocturne was chosen top open the movie because it starts on a minor chord and in opera, an opening minor chord is the way to say tragedy follows - which it did, but was inappropriate if one follows the musical custom because if a minor chord had been played for the German, we would assume tragedy to follow - instead we got something opposite of tragedy. So it might have been the musical cues and traditions that they followed for the reason for the switch. Vince > > > I know this because I'm a huge fan of Chopin's music and I recently > heard part-time jmdler Stephanie Morrison play the unedited Ballade > #1 in G Minor at a recital in Denver. It was brilliant! > > Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:38:40 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: spencer tunick, photographer, was RE: Art in Barcelona NJC this article was about spencer tunick, who for at least 15 years has specialized in photographing large groups of people, nude, in unusual locations usually urban. i was in a spencer tunick photo shoot around '93 or '94. we met at the UN around 5:30 am, stripped down and improvised with clear plastic dropcloths in front of the fence on first avenue, with the general assembly building behind us. and then went over to second avenue. my favorite shot had about 35 people, lying face up, feet to head in a two-hundred foot snake on two blocks of second avenue, looking uptown. an unforgettable morning, naked in the midtown avenues of new york in the early am, with tons of p.a.s around, videoing, collecting releases, watching for cops and traffic (no permits in those days). all sorts of people and bodies, tattoos and sagging flesh and a whole lot of beauty in all that. that bottom-smacking line in the article made me laugh, though. i'll remember that if i'm ever in a naked applauding crowd. patrick np - radiohead - hail to the thief >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of dsk >Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 12:55 PM >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Art in Barcelona NJC > > >From yesterday's NY Times: > >"The English seemed a bit more giggly," he said. "I get the impression >that half of the people here will be naked later today, anyway." > >His friend Jane Hyde, 44, said of the apparent Spanish tendency to spank >their own naked rear ends as a form of applause, "That bottom-smacking >thing is rude!" > >Entire article is at: > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/09/international/europe/09BARC.html?ex=10562 14253&ei=1&en=24a28c3f17183b97 Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:08:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni's smoking njc now LOOKSism --- Lori Fye wrote: > Or ... let's inject Botox (tox = toxic?) into our > faces so we don't > show wrinkles. Why not appreciate lines of wisdom > instead?? > > Lori, > off to color her hair now Right on, sista! I'd rather see lines of wisdom than smoothness of... nothing. But I can't give up the hair colour just yet either. I'm too afraid of what lies beneath. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:4:38 -0500 From: "William C. Burnworth/Tim Callaghan" Subject: Joni interview in Book of Changes 2 Hi ..just saw in Fantagraphics Books list for March 2004 this new Kristine McKenna anthology of interviews, including Joni, Rickie Lee and Chrissie, among many other illustrious subjects. here's the link: http://www.fantagraphics.com/norton03f/n_mar.html Love to all..wish I could join you at Jonifest but am booked at the Gold Coast Arts Festival in Chicago that weekend (and Wells St. Arts Fest in Chicago this weekend..Lincoln Center Crafts in NYC next weekend) showing my work. Sending my best to each of you (and waiting for my WOHAM DVD to arrive from Amazon tomorrow...) Williamnp: Gwen Guthrie William Burnworth/Tim CallaghanCastalian Springcspringj@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:13:14 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin hey vince this was discussed pretty in depth in a new york times article this weekend, still available. you might have to register. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/08/arts/music/08BECK.html patricko np - radiohead - hail to the thief >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of vince >Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:16 PM >To: Les Irvin >Cc: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin > > >Les Irvin wrote: > >> >> Interestingly, there's an "error" in the movie. The book (and maybe >> even the movie) states that Wladyslaw played Nocturne in C# Minor for >> the German officer. > >the book does state that, the movie didn't as I recall, and it was the >Nocturne that was played in the opening scene in the movie when the >radio station is bombed. The book only says it was a Chopin program >and does not indicate which was the last solo piece to be broadcast when >they were cut off the air. > >> But in fact the piece that they actually played in the movie at that >> point was an edited version of the Ballade #1 in G Minor. >> >> Don't know why they chose to switch - maybe the pianist couldn't play >> the Nocturne. > >but they did in the opening scene, didn't they - maybe they felt its use >there was more poignant - the pianist who actually played is a leading >pianist in Poland so doubtful there was something he could not play. > Maybe the Nocturne was chosen top open the movie because it starts on a >minor chord and in opera, an opening minor chord is the way to say >tragedy follows - which it did, but was inappropriate if one follows the >musical custom because if a minor chord had been played for the German, > we would assume tragedy to follow - instead we got something opposite >of tragedy. > >So it might have been the musical cues and traditions that they followed >for the reason for the switch. > >Vince > >> >> >> I know this because I'm a huge fan of Chopin's music and I recently >> heard part-time jmdler Stephanie Morrison play the unedited Ballade >> #1 in G Minor at a recital in Denver. It was brilliant! >> >> Les ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:20:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Art in Barcelona NJC --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > >a few weeks later i joined the naked > crowd again on a beach > south of buenos aires. lots of familiar faces there > too ;-D Faces? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:26:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC Hey There! Sugarpantsless Bob writes: > Also, I had a complaint last night from a lister whose name is listed under another lister's picture on the Jonifest 2002 page. Who is in charge of the page now? I did lots more captions than ever made it to the page. Is it still being worked on? > I know my name appears below a picture of Rose. I said something awhile ago, when some confusion arose, but I think it is still the case. Does this mean someone thinks all us Italians look the same?! Or is Rose really that butch!? NOT! Me thinks that Smuph is daydreaming about fest 2003 captions of himself with Sugarpants ... its all an illusion Bobby - it ain't gonna happen! Peace, Susan NP: Shawn Colvin/Killing the Blues __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:29:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: shaving NJC Very NJC --- colin wrote: > > tho i have not heard of this, plenty of adults shave > their pubic hair. I > don't like it. It looks weird and too child like for > my taste. Not to mention razor burn, cuts (yowch!), stubble and itch. How romantic. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:48:59 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC In a message dated 6/10/03 9:28:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, groovchacha@yahoo.com writes: > Does this mean someone thinks all us Italians look the same?! ROTFLMAO!!!! this is too funny. When did the pics appear? I didn't recall anyone saying they were up. Where are all my fotos? hummmphf! ~rosie my mom & dad r Italian too ;) In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:04:24 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: shaving NJC Very NJC Catherine McKay wrote: >> >> > >Not to mention razor burn, cuts (yowch!), stubble and >itch. > you just made me think of Velcro... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:08:51 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC: New "Dan" in town- TODAY!!! ATTENTION WEST COAST SHOPPERS! Best Buy has the new Steely Dan, released today, on sale. I may not be a wealthy man but tonight I'm rich in music: $11.99 plus tax on Release Day!! It's called "everything must go" and curiously, it's never been called anything else. Those boys still have something to learn about shooting themselves in the foot from our Joan. :) Lama, who's still waiting for his pre-ordered DVD entitled "Joni Mitchell: A Woman Of Heart And Mind: the PBS special, not the Canadian one, but with a few tracks from the previous video 'Painting With Words and Music', but really, it's not much different from the Canadian Version and I wouldn't fuss over it", an Eagle Rock Production. That thing was released exactly a week ago! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:01:16 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: The PermaVine Thingie Geeeeess... I can be soooo confused sometimes. Okay, I sent a copy that I burned from the original PermaVine to Terry (TerryM2222); the original went to Debra. Sorry if I confused anyone, especially myself. I had made about four copies to send out & then Debra asked for the original at the same time that I was sending one to Terry, so I was thinking they went in opposite directions. Anyway, everybody's happy with the thing and that's all that counts, right? I love listening to that young Joni introducing the tunes and that little giggle/laugh of hers. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:13:33 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin Thank you! Only in the JMDL can you have a post like Les' and this one - - I am very indebted to Les and Patrick for what I have learned this day. Vince patrick leader wrote: >hey vince > >this was discussed pretty in depth in a new york times article this weekend, >still available. you might have to register. > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/08/arts/music/08BECK.html > >patricko > >np - radiohead - hail to the thief ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:26:31 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: cadmium and Jonifest pics -- NJC "Eggs Over Very Easy" Guzzi writes: << Me thinks that Smuph is daydreaming about fest 2003 captions of himself with Sugarpants ... its all an illusion Bobby - it ain't gonna happen! >> I will get into your sweet Sugarpants if it's the last thing I do, Cannoli Pants. Along with delicious, fresh organic food, you'll be eating your words at Jonifest. You'll see. Sexism sucks. It's so over, Guzzi. XO, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:37:06 EDT From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: Shaving NJC Very NJC In fact I am a Libra. Go figure. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:51:04 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin Thank you very much for sharing this. It meant a lot to me to read this as I know a bit of the territory. If you read the Hosenfeld diary excerpts in the Szpilman book, you will see that Hosenfeld was articulating some thoughts that would make him in line with the Confessing Church, Niemoeller, and Bonhoeffer. Amazing stuff. Vince Maggie McNally wrote: >Hello again, Vince. Still have not seen The Pianist, but had to respond to your mention of Bonhoffer. My father was a 3rd generation Irish working class lad from Baltimore who found his way out by joining the U.S. Army at an early age. During WWII he was in the Corps of Engineers and his job was to rebuild the bridges in and around Germany that were continuously being destroyed, thus helping to keep the troops moving. At the end of the war he was one of the many soldiers who involved in liberating the concentration camps, an experience that forever changed the life of a fallen Catholic boy. > >He eventually retired from the Army in the early 60s, and after spending some time as a private detective in Los Angeles (he had retired from the Counter Intelligence Corps), he decided to pursue his dream and become a minister. He had found his way back into religious life when his first wife (my mother) became terminally ill, but Catholicism was never to be the answer for him. So, he packed us up and moved us from L.A. to Bangor, Maine to attend Bangor Theological Seminary and made his way from Congregational to Unitarian-Universalist minister, finding me a wonderful new mother in the process. Following his ordination he went to Goddard College in Vermont for advanced study, and his thesis was on Dietrich Bonhoffer. His life had come full circle, as the experience of WWII lead him to champion the beliefs of this courageous man as he pursued his own dreams of meaningful work for peace in his world. > >Hadn't intended it, but my ramblings have turned into an early father's day testimony for the Rev. John FJ McNally, Jr. Thanks for listening. > >Best, >Maggie > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: vince [mailto:revrvl@chartermi.net] > Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:35 AM > To: Kate Bennett > Cc: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: njc The Pianist, Szpilman, Chopin > > > Kate Bennett wrote: > > >& i wondered if he hadn't > >been a musician & played for the german if the german would > have been moved > >to help him...(if indeed this is part of the real story).. > > > > > > The German officer was named Wilm Hosenfeld as I said, has diary > excerpts included in the re-release of Szpilman's book and they alone > are worth reading for their own sake. The man was a school teacher or > principal and was in charge of sports facilities in occupied Warsaw. > Szpilman was not the first Polish Jew that Hosenfeld helped. > Hosenfeld's diary is astounding - his discussion of why there is evil > and who is responsible is just incredible, I actually stood up > the first > time that I read it - it is on par with the writings of Bonhoeffer, > Barth, Neimoeller, and that it came from a German officer in the midst > of the war moved me deeply. > > Szpilman survived because he was a pianist - not that other artists > equally well known had a different fate - he had a few connections and > the reason he was pulled from the umschlagplatz - someone was a fan - > and because of the same internal discipline that allowed him > to be such > a great pianist. The book, autobiographical, is very underwritten, a > moving moving memoir. As I compared the book, Szpilman's own account, > with the movie, very little was changed. The account of Szpilman > meeting the German officer is slightly different in the book - > certainly > movies have their own need to dramatize - Szpilman said the piano was > badly out of tune and it took him a few minutes to get his > fingers going > and he played more than one piece. But much of the dialogue > in the book > is in the movie throughout - Polanski was very faithful to the book. > Seeing the movie the second time after I read the book (and I > watched it > with book in hand, page by page) made it even more poignant. > > And so much was random chance - the selections, being on this > street and > not that street, bullets that miss, an officer perhaps too > drunk to kill > a Jew at a crucial moment - all so random. > > Your comments on the movie's portrayal of the devastation of the city > are exactly right. The Nazi's leveled the ghetto and leveled > the city. > > Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:57:32 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: 'everything must go', 2 capsule reviews, njc REVIEWED: Steely Dan's "everything must go" ================================ For the casual fan: Skip this one. These guys telegraphed all of their moves long ago. For the diehard fan: We all know they "still have it". Sly and smart stories. Sassy sax. Smooth and smarmy. In short, more of the same and, to me, very worthwhile! Lama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 02:11:27 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: June 11 On June 11 the following items were published: 1970: "Ladies of the Canyon" - Rolling Stone (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=295 2000: "Critics to swarm Saskatoon for Mitchell art exhibition" - Saskatoon StarPhoenix (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=532 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #322 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)