From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #315 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, June 6 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 315 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Time to quit? [Chrys Jordan ] Re: Time to quit? [SoulQuest7@aol.com] Anita and Me (and Joni) [Gordon Mackie ] RE: When is it time to quit? njc ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Time to quit? [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: When is it time to quit? sjc [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Time to quit? [Catherine McKay ] Re: When is it time to quit? sjc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Woman of Heart DVD [AsharaJM@aol.com] When is it time to quit? sjc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Jonifest 2003 Attendees [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] RE: When is it time to quit? sjc ["Maggie McNally" ] Come to Jonifest FREE raffle [AsharaProducLLC@aol.com] june 6!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Dream Concert [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] older artists ["walterphil" ] When is it time to quit? sjc ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] RE: Dream Concert [NJC] ["Maggie McNally" ] RE: Dream Concert [NJC] [Richard Goldman ] Re-Listing Joni's Guitar on eBay ["paul@anglesnet.com" ] RE: 25 f*cking years today!!!!!!! njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Shawn Colvin, in praise of. njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #185 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: When is it time to quit? sjc ["Lori Fye" ] RE: 25 f*cking years today!!!!!!! njc ["Lori Fye" ] RE: june 6!!!!! njc ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: [NortheastJonifest] RE: 25 f*cking years today!!!!!!! njc [Susan Guzz] Raffle! NJC ["Maggie McNally" ] Re: Time to quit? [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: Time to quit? ["Robert Argento" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 01:02:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Chrys Jordan Subject: Re: Time to quit? I recently purchased BLUE, and my first impression is quite positive; that early period in Joni's music is mostly what I have. Unfortunately, and please don't throw stone @ me, I say this with regret and empathy, not with anger. One man's opinion here, but: it literally breaks my heart to hear how smoking has in effect destroyed Joni's extraordinary voice. She hung on there longer than she probably should have, and now her voice is a shadow of those old albums from SONG TO A SEAGULL ending with HEJIRA. I'm admittedly a new fan; is the club name Jimdle? I discovered her when she sang 'Goodbye Blue Skies' for Roger Waters' all-star re-enactment of THE WALL in the ruins of the newly fallen Berlin Wall. This was 1990, and Joni made the song, formerly a Waters/Gilmour duet, seem brand new: beautiful to the point of heart-break. She sounded great; I became a fan soon after (I first saw Roger's show in 1996) but TAMING THE TIGER hurt; a frail, painful shadow of what she once was. I smoke myself, and the fact that I never could sing too well is no excuse; I should quit myself; I may not and therefore do not cast stones or accuse. I just wish there were another way, and as Luther was supposed to have said: Here I stand, I can do no other. Have a Chelsea morning. the Tiger-boy Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:18:03 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: Time to quit? I think it's not just smoking, but aging in general that decreases your vocal range, flexibility, etc. However, I have been surprised how good Paul McCartney's voice has been on his recent tour at the age of 60, something which may be attributable to his not smoking (either cigs or pot) anymore or at least rarely. I think I heard or read somewhere that Joni liked smoking because it kept her voice low! While this might shock those of us who love her soprano flights on those early albums, it might make sense given her love of Billy Holiday. Having said all that, I was quite impressed with Joni's new version of BOTH SIDES NOW on the album of the same name. Aside from the amazing string arrangement, Joni still uses her decreased-capacity lung capacity in ways that are still moving, which only goes to show that while artistry may be enhanced by a wide vocal range, it's not necessarily imperative. =--==- om=== Nick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:04:51 +0100 From: Gordon Mackie Subject: Anita and Me (and Joni) Mark You provide us with an interesting post on different levels. Re Anita, I spose its the "Jazz on a Summers Day" performance that sticks out in my mind...the film of the Newport Jazz Festival (of '58 I think) . I thought she was absolutely stunning....she looks like a cross between Joni I (the teeth I spose) and Sophie Ellis Bextor (the eyes I spose.. sorry music fans ...its just a likeness thang). Her singing and timing were impeccable even though allegedly she was 'coked' out of her brain. Re Joni performing into old age, I would go. Just to be close to her presence 'cos even though she might be 'past it' musically, I think the spirit would be there no matter how old and decrepit she was. I would love to be in her company because her work intrigues me. Whether or not we would like each other who knows. And in some ways who cares. I kinda suspect , knowing her innermost feelings and some of her secrets, we'd get on well. Not hero worship talking here. Gordon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:11:39 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: RE: When is it time to quit? njc >>birgit nilsson, one of the greatest sopranos of all time, retired when she was in her 60's. << Was this before or after she married Dolph Lun(d)gren? meic in bcn NP Paul Robeson - Joe Hill NPIMH - Theme from 'Rocky' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:16:48 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: Time to quit? There is so much more to Joni Mitchell than her voice. That is just one small piece of the pie. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 06:24:36 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc i don't think we have to worry about Jont's financial position too much. My impression is that she is not hurting. House in Belair, Lexus, designer clothes. I am sure that if she ever decided to sell some of her paintings, they would bring in some pretty good money. She's sems to be doing ok and good for her! Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:03:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Time to quit? Chrys, you wouldn't be the first person to make this comment and I'm sure you won't be the last (LOL). What will likely happen now is that people will begin to argue whether it's the smoking that has "ruined" Joni's voice, (because some people think her voice is better now than ever, believe it or not), or whether it's something else, like the aging process, or maybe her post-polio syndrome or a multitude of other causes. In any case, I can't see how smoking could do anything but bad to the voice. After all, isn't cancer of the larynx caused by smoking? IF you've ever seen someone smoking through a trach tube, you'd give good thought to quitting (but it's addictive as hell, so you never know.) --- Chrys Jordan wrote: > I recently purchased BLUE, and my first impression > is quite positive; that early period in Joni's music > is mostly what I have. > > Unfortunately, and please don't throw stone @ me, I > say this with regret and empathy, not with anger. > One man's opinion here, but: it literally breaks my > heart to hear how smoking has in effect destroyed > Joni's extraordinary voice. She hung on there longer > than she probably should have, and now her voice is > a shadow of those old albums from SONG TO A SEAGULL > ending with HEJIRA. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc I've always wondered how people could give up something they love so much or how they know when they're losing it. Some people do know and they quit and go into teaching or coaching. Others just keep on going. It must be hard to quit at all, much less when you're ahead. I wonder if Anita realizes how bad she sounds? Some people just become blind (or in this case, maybe tone-deaf) to it. Or maybe she has Alzheimer's or something - that's a possibiity. I read an article the other day about people with Alzheimer's doing art (painting) and how, after they've lost their ability to speak coherently, they can still paint very expressively. It was quite touching. I guess that doesn't apply to singing though, because singing requires remembering words. Yes, I would go to see Joni when she was past it (LOL, some people think she already is), especially if it was in a small venue - a club or something. However, I suspect she just wouldn't do it, nor does she need to. After all, she has her painting as well, so even if she gets Alzy's, she has something to do! --- Mark or Travis wrote:> > > >Unfortunately, my hunch was not a good one. I just > looked up Anita [O'Day}'s > date of birth on her web site. The woman is 83 > years old. The show > was prefaced by video footage from live performances > projected on a > large screen, some dating back to the 40s but mostly > from the early > 60s. These clips showed an animated and upbeat > Anita at her peak. > But last night she shuffled on stage, stood mostly > with her back to > the audience so she could look at music sheets on > the piano and still > couldn't get out about 2/3rds of the lyrics to the > songs she sang. > Her pitch was erratic and the notes she did hit she > had trouble > sustaining. During gaps she made feeble attempts to > scat or motioned > to the band to play over the muffed lyrics. The Bob > Kaye trio did the > best they could to support her, ably playing piano, > bass and drum, > giving her cues and trying to fill in wherever > possible. But > ultimately this ghost of a performance was painful > to watch. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 04:34:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Beauchamp Subject: Joni in current Blender magazine Hello everyone, Check out the current June/July 2003 issue of Blender magazine for a couple of Joni mentions. In a review of the latest Michelle Branch album on page 132 is the memorable line "...Michelle Branch reverently mentions uncool folk heros Cat Stevens and Joni Mitchell." Uncool to the reviewer, perhaps, but it sounds like Michelle is wise beyond her years. Then on pages 158 & 159 are reveiws of every Joni album (along with a beautiful B&W picture of a young Joni). The reviews should be good for some discussion on this list - especially as DED is listed as "Great" with 3 stars. Let the debates begin! Ed __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:43:57 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Woman of Heart DVD In a message dated 6/4/2003 4:33:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: > Also, there's an ebay vendor from Saskatoon (out of all places) selling a > 20 > min VHS of Joni, CSN, taped on Dick Cavett the day after Woodstock. The > "buy > now" is only $9.99. Is this show on the Joni trees? > Yep, available for blanks and postage right here in JMDL land. If anyone doesn't have the trees yet and wants them, please send an e-mail to me. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:52:46 -0400 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: When is it time to quit? sjc > Thanks for reading (if you've made it this far.) Thanks for your review, Mark. I'm sure that was tough to bear, witnessing a performance from someone who has deteriorated greatly. As it's been pointed out, Anita may very well be in dire straits financially as many artist, particularly women, have been abused and neglected in the business. This is certainly a reality that we boomers will have to face in the upcoming years; as the rockers & singers we've adored for 30-40 years turn the corner into their senior years and don't have the resources (or the sense) to hang it up. I saw Little Feat this week at The Handlebar, and they definitely still have it, they put on a great show. By the same token, The Doobie Brothers were in town about a month ago playing a fair-like gig, and I just couldn't bear to go see my old heroes trying to relive/replay their hits of decades ago. As for Joni...I give her credit for moving forward (even if it's not the direction I would like to see) rather then tour as a jukebox. Seems to me like she's already transitioned to not performing with an instrument, although I yearn to see her in an unplugged, intimate setting and she seems like she's still got plenty of zest to do so. Speaking of old-timers, Joan Baez is coming to the Handlebar October 5. Come on down to Greenville & I can most likely arrange a meet & greet for you as I know the owner well (and have spent LOTS of money with him over the years) Even though I'm not a huge Baez fan, I'll go see her based on what's she given over the years, plus the fact that she's such a legend. Bob NP: REM, "Bang & Blame" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:38:17 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Jonifest 2003 Attendees Only 2 months left to Jonifest 2003. Is your name on here? If not, what are you WAITING FOR???? :-) COMING TO JONIFEST 2003: Jason Avery (jasonavery@hotmail.com) - Hamilton, Ontario Rachel Avery (posall@hotmail.com) - Hamilton, Ontario Bette Benedict (mcbette@webtv.net) - Lambertville, NJ Donna Binkley (djb@binkleybarfield.com) - Houston, Texas Walt Breen (bigwaltinsf@aol.com) - San Francisco, CA Karyn Callaghan (karyncallaghan@hotmail.com) - Hamilton, Ontario Sue Cameron (scam1@freeway.net) - Alanson, MI Alison Einerson (alisone4@yahoo.com) - Salt Lake City, UT Chuck Eisenhardt (chuck@chucke.net) - Arlington, MA Stephen Epstein (frasere@intergate.ca) - Vancouver, B.C. Lori Fye (lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com) - Silver Spring, MD Martin Giles (mlg@ukonline.co.uk) - sudbury, middlesex Jenny Goodspeed (jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com) - Shutesbury, MA Brian Gross (briangross@rocketmail.com) - Woodbury, NJ Susan Guzzi (groovchacha@yahoo.com) - Chicago, IL Gisele Hawkins (wheezygee@aol.com) - Birmingham, AL Barbara Hindley (barbh@bhindley.com) - Arlington, MA Mags Holden-Gross (magsnbrei@yahoo.com) - Woodbury, NJ Lucy Hone (lulu.hone@virgin.net) - Gosport, Hampshire UK Les Irvin (les@jmdl.com) - Colorado Springs, CO Jody Johnson (johnsonjs@earthlink.net) - Portsmouth, NH Nikki Johnson (stealth@voicenet.com) - Philadelphia, PA Victor Johnson (waytoblu@mindspring.com) - Decatur, Georgia Ed Jordan (EDWARDJORDAN1@AOL.COM) - ft. myers, fl Wally Kairuz (wallykai@fibertel.com.ar) - BUENOS AIRES, CAPITAL Alex Krutsky (mm@celebrityseries.org) - Cambridge, MA Patrick Leader (pleader@nyc.rr.com) - new york, ny JIM LHOMMEDIEU (jlamadoo@yahoo.com) - COVINGTON, KY Barbara Little (balittle@ptd.net) - Tafton, PA Chris Marshall (chris@hatstand.org) - Cambridge, Cambridgeshire Catherine McKay (Anima_Rising@yahoo.ca) - Etobicoke, ON Maggie McNally (mm@celebrityseries.org) - Cambridge, MA John Moore (jmoore@esva.net) - Chincoteague, VA Bob Muller (scjoniguy@aol.com) - Greenville, SC Bob Murphy (murphycopy@aol.com) - Watertown, MA Kerry Nikutta (myrtlmoo@ticon.net) - Milwaukee, WI Michael Paz (michael@pyramidaudio.net) - Destrehan, La Lieve Reckers (reckersl@ebrd.com) - London, United Kingdom Marianne Rizzo (treegreen1@hotmail.com) - West Rush, NY Anne Sandstrom (anne@sandstrom.com) - Waltham, MA Claudia SanSoucie (claud9@comcast.net) - Baltimore, MD Bob Sartorius (bobsart48@aol.com) - Lake Hiawatha, NJ Cindy Scaglione (cscag333@aol.com) - Tampa, FL Rebecca Seale (Bree_mcdonough@hotmail.com) - Mason, OH Ashara Stansfield (AsharaProducLLC@aol.com) - Topsfield, MA Jimmy Stewart (FMYFL@AOL.COM) - Ft. Myers, FL Sarah Stringer (strings@doctors.net.uk) - Magham Down, Nr. Hailsham, East Sussex John van Tiel (johnvantiel@home.nl) - Delfzijl, The Netherlands Cindy Vickery (cindyvickery@yahoo.com) - Birmingham, Alabama Not received deposit yet, but interested in coming? Ron Greer (flopit@mweb.co.za) - Lyttleton, Gauteng, South Africa Heather Galli (chiaroscuro@snet.net) - Durham, CT Yael Harlap (yael@alumni.brown.edu) - Ann Arbor, MI Robert Holliston (roberto1011@hotmail.com) - Victoria, British Columbia Craig Jenkins (cactustreemotel@hotmail.com) - Round Rock, Texas Sue McNamara (sem8@cornell.edu) - Ithaca, NY Steve Polifka (polifkas@matc.edu) - Milwaukee, WI Pearl Weisberg (WirlyPearl@aol.com) - Hollywood, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:18:49 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: When is it time to quit? sjc What an interesting post, Mark. As I read it I felt my heart softly breaking for Ms. O'Day and for all her fans. Thanks to your writing, I could hear her in her prime, and see in my mind's eye the difference as she performed on Wednesday. I don't know how I will REALLY feel when/if that time comes with Joni, but I believe that from where I sit now, at the ripe old age of 50, that if her situation was as you described that I would not go to see her. It runs contrary to her whole package, and I would prefer to hear her songs and hear her stories from the archives. Nothing lasts forever, after all. While the part of me that has identified with Joni Mitchell and her lyrics and music since I was 17 years old may keep me seeking more, more, more - as a way to capture my own lost youth - it seems to me if that were my motivation I would rather watch the videos and, keeping mirrors far away, imagine that I am that young lass with long Peggy Lipton (except brown) hair and love beads identifying with all of the ladies of the canyon. So, Mark, in sum, I think I would not go, and would hope that our Ms. Mitchell would not choose this route. However, I can tell you that here at Celebrity Series where we present artists from around the globe who have achieved reputations as being in the top echelon of their respective forms, the ago that goes along with the territory does not always allow the artist to see the truth. We have presented artists who are past their prime and it is a hard call where the line is that is crossed from "past prime" to "too far gone." Sadly, it sounds as though there is no such ambiguity with Anita O'Day's situation. Best, Maggie NP: Becky Barksdale - "I'll Say Goodbye" -----Original Message----- From: Mark or Travis [mailto:mark.travis@gte.net] Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:10 PM To: JMDL Subject: When is it time to quit? sjc I had an unusual live music experience last night. Anita O'Day was the headliner at Seattle's Jazz Alley for 2 nights and I was curious to see what kind of show she would put on. So I got my friends Melanie & Val who had accompanied Travis & I to the Gorge in 98 to see the Joni/Bob/Van concert to join me in a night on the town. We ate well prepared and spicy tavern food at the Two Bells Tavern, an establishment known in Seattle for its juicy burgers. Then we walked the few blocks, the weather being particularly fine, to Jazz Alley. I have several of Anita's cds, mostly from the 50s and early 60s. I knew she was still around and remembered reading something about her still performing. I also knew that she was getting up there in years. But having experienced the seemingly inexhaustible energy and still brilliant talent of Jon Hendricks and Annie Ross a couple of years ago, I had high hopes that Anita would be one of those singers like Alberta Hunter who managed to retain her vitality and vigor into her later years. Unfortunately, my hunch was not a good one. I just looked up Anita's date of birth on her web site. The woman is 83 years old. The show was prefaced by video footage from live performances projected on a large screen, some dating back to the 40s but mostly from the early 60s. These clips showed an animated and upbeat Anita at her peak. But last night she shuffled on stage, stood mostly with her back to the audience so she could look at music sheets on the piano and still couldn't get out about 2/3rds of the lyrics to the songs she sang. Her pitch was erratic and the notes she did hit she had trouble sustaining. During gaps she made feeble attempts to scat or motioned to the band to play over the muffed lyrics. The Bob Kaye trio did the best they could to support her, ably playing piano, bass and drum, giving her cues and trying to fill in wherever possible. But ultimately this ghost of a performance was painful to watch. During a break, after watching some more film clips that included some of her performance from the vintage Newport Jazz festival film 'Jazz on A Summer's Day', we decided to leave rather than watch the poor woman struggle through another handful of songs. The audience was very supportive of Anita. It was clear that most of those present recognized this woman's place in the pantheon of great jazz singers. The voice never had the clarity or range of Ella Fitzgerald or Sarah Vaughan or touched quite the emotional depths that Billie Holiday did. Maybe that's why she never attained the same exalted position in jazz posterity that those women did. But when I listen to vintage Anita O'Day, I hear elements of each of those singers. Her singing was amazingly agile, jumping all over her range or scatting up and down with an ease that rivaled both Ella and Sarah. Sometimes you would hear echoes of Sassy's slide or, more often than not, she would hit each note in a vocal run with dead-on precision with no slide at all. I hear a brightness in her singing like Ella had but I also hear darker, richer tones and a way of bending the notes that is reminiscent of Sarah. And Anita's voice has a definite rasp to it, much like Lady Day's did. Not being a jazz expert, I get the impression that she really came into her own with the advent of bop. She could swing a song like nobody's business. Rhythm seems to be in her blood. Ultimately she created her own unique sound. I imagine that quite a few people that heard her last night were content to experience even the faintest echo of her genius. She was clearly one of a kind. So why does someone who was considered to be one of the top performers in her field keep trying to do it, long after the ability to perform has deserted her? Was last night an off night? Is she so driven by her love for the music to keep getting on that stage whether she is up to it or not? Or is she in dire financial straights and needs the money just to keep body and soul together? Suppose that, against all odds and laws of probability, 20 years from now Joni is still performing in small clubs. Suppose she has arthritis and can't play guitar or piano anymore. Suppose her voice has deteriorated to the point where she can't hit any of the notes anymore and her mental faculties are such that she can't remember most of her own lyrics. Would you go to see her? Would you still feel the old thrill of being in her presence and hearing her live? Would you be satisfied with memories of a genius at work projected onto something that could hardly even be called a performance? When should a performer hang it up and retire? I don't regret going last night. I bought a DVD of a 1963 performance in Tokyo that is only available at her gigs or through her website and also picked up a cd that Anita had signed earlier in the day. So if she does need the money, I'm glad I could help Anita out in a small way and it's certainly nice to have an autographed cd. I enjoyed the time spent with Mel & Val and I can say that I saw Anita O'Day, was in the same room with her. But I don't really feel like I can say that I saw her perform. I can't quite put the experience into perspective and would appreciate hearing anyone else's thoughts about it. I suppose if Anita really, really wants to keep on keeping on, she has earned the right to do so. What does anyone else think? How much slack does legendary status demand we cut a performer who, for whatever reason, does not deliver a competent performance? I would love to hear from some of the musicians on the list about this. Thanks for reading (if you've made it this far.) Mark E. in Seattle PS: I listened to the soundtrack of 'Short Cuts' on the way home. Does anyone else own this record? It seemed somehow appropriate as I was driving home. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:39:42 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: When is it time to quit? njc ooooooooooohhhhhhh ..... i see now! i googled him and now i know what you mean! according to imdb, lungren won a fulbright scholarship to study at MIT. do you have a fulbright scholarship, pritches? wally, who's cracked the fulbright system and can get folks fulbright awards (for a price). -----Mensaje original----- De: mike pritchard [mailto:ink08@hotmail.com] Enviado el: Viernes, 06 de Junio de 2003 07:12 a.m. Para: wally kairuz CC: list Asunto: RE: When is it time to quit? njc >>birgit nilsson, one of the greatest sopranos of all time, retired when she was in her 60's. << Was this before or after she married Dolph Lun(d)gren? meic in bcn NP Paul Robeson  Joe Hill NPIMH  Theme from 'Rocky' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 07:49:37 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc > Considering the way the record business was set up then, she > probably made nothing from her recordings, had no savings or > retirement plan, and has no other choice than to trade on her > past to stay alive. This is what I fear about the situation. I realize that recording artists in the past (and still to a large degree) got the short end of the stick as far as revenues from their records were concerned. I would hate to think that this 83 year old woman *has* to perform just to keep body & soul together. That would be my guess, but maybe she just > feels like she loves music so much, she wants to keep doing it. And if that is the case, I sort of feel like she has a right to keep doing it. Obviously there are still people who want to see her. > >> Suppose she has >> arthritis and can't play guitar or piano anymore. > > Apparently she has already given up both! I would say it's never wise to second guess Joni. Who could have predicted the return the acoustic after DED and CMIARS? > >> Suppose her voice >> has deteriorated to the point where she can't hit any of the notes > > Dude, now you're really trying to get me into trouble. But to answer > your question, yes, I would still go and see her. It might be a sad > reminder of what she (and myself) used to be, but whatever, sorrow > has been her forte anyway. But Joni will never be in a position where > she has to do that for financial reasons. She could scale back her > lifestyle and live on royalties, and presumably investments and > savings. Well my question about Joni was purely hypothetical. I don't see it happening. I'm sure she doesn't need the money and she's threatened to quit so many times. I can't imagine that she would continue after the time when she can't do a capable job anymore. And, if I didn't make it clear before, Joni has in no way shape or form come close to the level of deterioration that I saw Wednesday night at Jazz Alley. I saw Joni in 2000 and she is doing just fine, imo. I just was throwing out a 'what if' because I wanted to hear what people's thoughts were on the subject of idols continuing to tour and perform even though they really are past it. Thanks for the feedback from all who posted! Mark E. in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:15:34 EDT From: AsharaProducLLC@aol.com Subject: Come to Jonifest FREE raffle Just a reminder that the deadline for this incredible opportunity is only 4 days away!! Your chances likely will be 1 in 10. How many raffles have this kind of odds? Announcing..... A Jonifest RAFFLE!!! To enter: Send $30 (payable to Ashara Productions, LLC) along with your name, address, phone number and e-mail address to win a chance at a FULL, all-expense paid weekend to Jonifest 2003. (Can also Paypal this amount.) Please write "JONIFEST RAFFLE CONTEST" somewhere in your note. RULES: 1) All entries must be received by midnight, EST, June 10, 2003. 2) Open to EVERYONE!!!! 3) This offer is open to NEW registrants for Jonifest only. Participants already signed up for Jonifest 2003 are not eligible. 4) Does NOT include transportation to/from Jonifest. Weekend price only for a shared accomodation with a shared bath. 5) There must be a minimum number of 10 entries, otherwise contest is void and all entries will be returned. 6) For 10-19 entries, there will be one winner. For 20-29 entries, 2 winners, etc. How can you resist? If you've been thinking of going to Jonifest this year but funds are tight, the worst that can happen is that you gamble $30 for a chance to join us for a GREAT weekend of fun, family, friends, and music!! (fusic??) The BEST that can happen is that you come to Jonifest for $30!!! The odds are high that you will win as the highest odds are 1 in 19, and can conceivably be as low as 1 in 10!!! Enter now, and join us in August!! GOOD LUCK!!! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:33:32 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: june 6!!!!! njc see IT float forth, fluttering and frilly yet frostily frightening!!!! (say that ten times.) it is time again for the DEVILISHLY DASH AND DARING JMDL BIRTHDAY FAIRY to lift its shapely buns and get away from that bridge table (where it's been losing rubber after rubber) and put on its winter attire (today in subdued earth tones for the day is chilly and the frosty wind doth moan) and announce: YOU MORTAL THINGS WITH A LIFESPAN OF 75 YEARS (APPROX.) HEAR! STAND AND BE RECKONED the BF will speak: HaPpYBi RthDaY GARY ZACK, shamefully lurking but still adorable 'cuz you like laura nyro!!!!! the BF has a headache. the BF will proceed back to the bridge game now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:42:11 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Dream Concert [NJC] Saturday, June 28th "CAME SO FAR FOR BEAUTY' AN EVENING OF SONGS BY LEONARD COHEN UNDER THE STARS with: The Handsome Family Kate & Anna McGarrigle Rufus Wainwright Martha Wainwright Linda Thompson Teddy Thompson Prospect Park Bandshell (Brooklyn) 7:30pm / Free http://www.brooklynx.org/celebrate/schedule.aspCalendar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:33 -0400 (EDT) From: "walterphil" Subject: older artists mark wrote "Stephane Grappelli and Cab Calloway were still fantastic right up until their Deaths in their 80's." of course! not to mention sarah vaughan rosemary clooney frank sinatra duke ellington the current mr tony bennett-- he cant sing as well as the old days but he's still pretty friggin GREAT and scads of others. either you truly love your heroes or you dont. either cut em some slack or go listen to eminem & britnney spears. joni is gonna be around for a very long time. walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:59:19 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: When is it time to quit? sjc Hmmmm. You seem to be asking for others to interpret how you feel. I think you didn't have the experience you had hoped to have. You appreciate her hey-day because of the video at the show, enough to purchase a DVD of her creative peak. You clearly got something out of it, yet like most of us Joni fans, you were ambivalent about the experience. The way I read it, she raised lots of philosophical questions. I'd say, thank the Lord that she has people around her that "package" her in such a way that you got something out of the experience in spite of her current limitations. Where's Dr. Sigmondegreen when we need her? Maybe she'd say "Come in for couseling twice per week to work through your feelings about Anita O'Day. I suspect it's not about Ms. O'Day. I suspect it's about your own mortality. Bring $90 per visit, no insurance, in small, unmarked bills, and your most recent dream about lobster traps." Lama, who thinks the "NJC" filtering is broken. In my "only JMDL Digest", I got Mark's email labeled "SJC". In part, Mark in Seattle said, >>I don't regret going last night. I bought a DVD of a 1963 performance in Tokyo that is only available at her gigs or through her website and also picked up a cd that Anita had signed earlier in the day. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:07:28 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: Dream Concert [NJC] The subject line is well put...wish that I could bop on down to Brooklyn for a night of Cohen music by these wonderful artists. If you are in the New York area and you do go, drop us a line, pretty please? Maggie NP: Elvis Costello - Radio Radio -----Original Message----- From: Richard Goldman [mailto:richard2sf@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:42 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Dream Concert [NJC] Saturday, June 28th "CAME SO FAR FOR BEAUTY' AN EVENING OF SONGS BY LEONARD COHEN UNDER THE STARS with: The Handsome Family Kate & Anna McGarrigle Rufus Wainwright Martha Wainwright Linda Thompson Teddy Thompson Prospect Park Bandshell (Brooklyn) 7:30pm / Free http://www.brooklynx.org/celebrate/schedule.aspCalendar ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:33:52 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: RE: Dream Concert [NJC] I actually goofed with the URL for the concert. And ... there are more performers.... Here's the full blurb and correct URL http://www.brooklynx.org/celebrate/schedule.asp And oh how I wish I could go ... ~Richard - --------- DREAM CONCERT ! Saturday, June 28 - 7:30pm Free! Prospect Park Bandshell Brooklyn, NY "THEY CAME SO FAR FOR BEAUTY" An Evening of Songs by Leonard Cohen Under The Stars with: THE HANDSOME FAMILY KATE & ANNA MCGARRIGLE RUFUS WAINWRIGHT MARTHA WAINWRIGHT LINDA THOMPSON TEDDY THOMPSON Special Guests: PERLA BATALLA and JULIE CHRISTENSEN Also: STEVE BERNSTEIN ROB BURGER MARC RIBOT PRODUCED BY HAL WILLNER A host of special guest performers - including some surprise additions that will have you rubbing your eyes in disbelief - fjte Canadian poet/songwriter extraordinaire Leonard Cohen with interpretations of his music and writing in a once-in-a-lifetime concert. Visionary music producer Hal Willner presides over the proceedings with his signature off-kilter genius for curating live shows. This event is supported by the Canadian Consulate General New York. At 12:07 PM -0400 6/6/03, Maggie McNally wrote: >The subject line is well put...wish that I could bop on down to >Brooklyn for a night of Cohen music by these wonderful artists. If >you are in the New York area and you do go, drop us a line, pretty >please? > >Maggie >NP: Elvis Costello - Radio Radio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:50:09 -0700 From: "paul@anglesnet.com" Subject: Re-Listing Joni's Guitar on eBay Hi, everyone, After numerous discussions with JMDL members, we've decided to relist Joni's blonde Ibanez George Benson on eBay. You can find it at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2536919194 I really appreciate all of the thoughtful and thought-provoking feedback, stories, suggestions, and encouragement I got from this group. Please don't hesitate to offer more! All my best, Paul Angles - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul D. Angles | Marketing & Strategy paul@anglesnet.com | 310-704-9448 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:25:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: RE: Dream Concert [NJC] Yes and check out the Handsome Family who spent several years in Chicago's bohemian hoods honing their skills & sound. I didn't realize they had become so popular on a national basis - WOW! Remebering many nights listening to Rennie Sparks do monologues at women's performance art shows. Wonder if she's incorporating any of that into their gigs. Hope some of you can make it and if you do let us know what you think ... not to mention all the other great ones set to be there! Peace, Susan (kind of delurking) - --- Maggie McNally wrote: > The subject line is well put...wish that I could bop on down to Brooklyn for a night of Cohen > music by these wonderful artists. If you are in the New York area and you do go, drop us a > line, pretty please? > > Maggie > NP: Elvis Costello - Radio Radio > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Goldman [mailto:richard2sf@earthlink.net] > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:42 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Dream Concert [NJC] > > > Saturday, June 28th > "CAME SO FAR FOR BEAUTY' > AN EVENING OF SONGS BY LEONARD COHEN UNDER THE STARS with: > The Handsome Family > Kate & Anna McGarrigle > Rufus Wainwright > Martha Wainwright > Linda Thompson > Teddy Thompson > Prospect Park Bandshell (Brooklyn) > 7:30pm / Free > http://www.brooklynx.org/celebrate/schedule.aspCalendar __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:39:41 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: 25 f*cking years today!!!!!!! njc the BF has graciously allowed me, despicable mortal though i am, to take the stand and declare: H A P P Y 25TH A N N I V E R S A R Y BEAUTIFUL JIMMY AND YUMMY WAIT-TILL-I-LAY-HANDS-ON-YOU ED!!!!!!!! how can they have been together for 25 years when they're both twentysomethings? are they surgically improved? is it the florida weather? vast quantities of orange juice every day? i want to look like them!!!!!!! or maybe just look like ONE of them and have the other. oh well... you two come to jonifest and make a bitter old queen happy, ya hear? WELL, COME ON, PEOPLE! the BF is tapping its pretty little foot impatiently and already asking for my head. do greet the sunny ones now! love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:47:32 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: [NortheastJonifest] RE: 25 f*cking years today!!!!!!! njc happy 25th jimmy & ed! >H A P P Y 25TH A N N I V E R S A R Y BEAUTIFUL JIMMY AND YUMMY WAIT-TILL-I-LAY-HANDS-ON-YOU ED!!!!!!!!< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:59:55 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: The Washhouse of Mary of Gethsemane les that was simply beautiful. thank you. this, and all the other reworked lyrics really must be preserved. ron np - sass jordan - double trouble ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:22:59 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Shawn Colvin, in praise of. njc lama wrote >ALBUM: "STEADY ON" TRACK: "DEAD OF THE NIGHT" This track means the world to me. Some songs are better left as mysteries. They work for me because I don't understand them.< this was the song that most grabbed me on her debut album which was an amazing peice of work...when i went to see her in a very small venue when she was just beginning to tour this song was the only song she did not perform from that album... i agree, its a profound & soul stirring song...but it is no mystery to me...i relate to it from the inside out...thanks lama for bringing this song to light! The Dead of the Night S. Colvin It is the dead of the night Oh the dead of the night I live on a dream, it came to me When I was young I brought it here, and now for years The streets of London keep it safe and warm Every morning it dies and it is reborn In the dead of the night I keep a pencil and a book I say this is how a life can look Russian roulette, French-kissed cigarette And the silence like an anvil The things that you learn, but now all that burns Is a candle And the fog melts over the night, and it softens the edges I begin to write in the dead of the night A bead of sweat runs down my arm And I drink it from my skin It is the most real thing that I feel It is communion Bless the meek Heal the sick Protect the weak In the dead of the night www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:35:44 -0400 From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #185 A couple of questions about the Canadian made Tribute to Joni Mitchell "Back to the Garden" ... 1. What year did it come out? 2. Special thanks are given to Joni in the packaging - has she ever commented on the collection? 3. Were these artists popular when the album came out? 4. Did it make much noise when released- did critics rate it favorably? 5. And most important - what did/(do) jmdl's think of it? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:38:00 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: When is it time to quit? sjc Mark wrote: > Yes, I would go to see Joni when she was past it (LOL, > some people think she already is), especially if it > was in a small venue - a club or something. However, I > suspect she just wouldn't do it, nor does she need to. > After all, she has her painting as well, so even if > she gets Alzy's, she has something to do! I would go to see Joni, just to sit in her presence, regardless. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:49:04 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: 25 f*cking years today!!!!!!! njc Jimmy and Ed!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Who says gay relationships never last??) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:56:36 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: Joni mention in WSJ The JMDL posts are not the only thing I'm catching up on (just cleaned out nearly 600 posts - woohoo!!!). I was looking at last Friday's Wall Street Journal - Weekend Journal section and there were two Joni references on facing pages! The Tastings (weekly wine) column on special bottles and the memories they embody quoted her just before starting the column: "I could drink a case of you, darling/And still be on my feet/I'd still be on my feet. --Joni Mitchell" Then, on the opposite page, Joe Morgenstern's film review of Chen Kaige's "Together" includes the line, "What I kept hearing in my head, though, was Joni Mitchell's old refrain, 'stoking the star-making machinery.'" Right on! Maggie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:59:42 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: RE: june 6!!!!! njc Happy birthday, Gary! Maggie (now preparing to re-lurk, as I don't want to shock anyone who might be paying attention) -----Original Message----- From: Wally Kairuz [mailto:wallykai@fibertel.com.ar] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 11:34 AM To: nyro_in_detroit@sbcglobal.net Cc: list Subject: june 6!!!!! njc see IT float forth, fluttering and frilly yet frostily frightening!!!! (say that ten times.) it is time again for the DEVILISHLY DASH AND DARING JMDL BIRTHDAY FAIRY to lift its shapely buns and get away from that bridge table (where it's been losing rubber after rubber) and put on its winter attire (today in subdued earth tones for the day is chilly and the frosty wind doth moan) and announce: YOU MORTAL THINGS WITH A LIFESPAN OF 75 YEARS (APPROX.) HEAR! STAND AND BE RECKONED the BF will speak: HaPpYBi RthDaY GARY ZACK, shamefully lurking but still adorable 'cuz you like laura nyro!!!!! the BF has a headache. the BF will proceed back to the bridge game now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:04:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] RE: 25 f*cking years today!!!!!!! njc Happy Anniversary you two! I only know one other couple together as long .... and yes they are often heavily sedated as well! Many more years - see you on your 50th ... which by the way just happens to be my MOST loving parents 50th today - OH my what a nightmare of a life! AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! See you two lovebirds soon for a celebration drink - ONLY 9weeks! Peace Susan - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > the BF has graciously allowed me, despicable mortal though i am, to take the > stand and declare: > > H A P P Y > > 25TH > > A N N I V E R S A R Y > > BEAUTIFUL JIMMY AND YUMMY WAIT-TILL-I-LAY-HANDS-ON-YOU ED!!!!!!!! > > how can they have been together for 25 years when they're both > twentysomethings? are they surgically improved? is it the florida weather? > vast quantities of orange juice every day? i want to look like them!!!!!!! > or maybe just look like ONE of them and have the other. oh well... you two > come to jonifest and make a bitter old queen happy, ya hear? > > WELL, COME ON, PEOPLE! the BF is tapping its pretty little foot impatiently > and already asking for my head. do greet the sunny ones now! > love, > wally > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:09:46 -0400 From: "Maggie McNally" Subject: Raffle! NJC Bob, You and several others have suggested this approach. I am going through all the raffle emails I received over the last months while I was buried with work to see what they are offering. I know that Ashara has information for me; I will be in touch with her over the weekend to get that info from her. In the near future I will have a better handle on what we have promised and whether there are items that we could offer for the whole list. Meanwhile, all of you out there reading this, if you have things to offer, please let me know as soon as possible so we can see where we stand on this little fundraiser. Maggie -----Original Message----- From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [mailto:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 5:24 PM To: NortheastJonifest@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [NortheastJonifest] Jonifest P.S. Realize too that the donations to JM.com should all go Ashara to help, as will the monies raised in the raffle. Plus we won't know the real honest-to-God headcount until ???? June 15? How is the raffle shaping up, item wise? Would it be an idea to have a "silent auction" JMDL-wide to maximize the "donations" on a few of the better items? That being said, I'll do what I can, I think we all will. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/aM1XQD/od7FAA/uetFAA/9rHolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------- ------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NortheastJonifest-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 19:01:06 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Time to quit? I was faced with something like this dilemma a few years ago when Nina Simone came to town. A friend of mine asked if I wanted to go, and I wasn't sure. I held her in the highest esteem, as one of the true geniuses of the century, a unique musician, interpreter, singer and songwriter. Then again, I had heard a lot about her recent concerts, which from all accounts were patchy at best; I'd seen her on telly hacking through perfunctory renditions of My Baby Just Cares For Me and I Put A Spell On You. In the end, I decided not to go. I didn't want to sully my impression of her by seeing a going-through-the-motions routine from an embittered old lush. Obviously, I may have made a huge mistake. And it was my choice whether I'd let a bad show influence my esteem for her. But I can live with that. Something was preserved in my not going, and I don't regret it. Until a few years ago, news of a Joni tour would have meant instant action stations. Now, I don't know. The recent evidence tells me (yes, only my opinion, yada yada yada) that she simply can't sing any more. Unless I heard something to make me change that opinion, I'd probably decline. In the words of Rick (sorta), I'll always have Hejira... Azeem in London NP: Radiohead doing some tedious noodling on Later with Jools ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:31:30 -0400 From: "Robert Argento" Subject: RE: Time to quit? Let's take a closer look at this. No one is right and no one is wrong, of course. We have several different reasons for wanting to see Joni. But the argument that "she can't sing anymore" doesn't hold for me - and for several reasons. True, her voice has changed (so has yours if you are as old as we of the Joni generation). I feel that she uses this change in order to emphasize the older - more mature - interpretations that she now gives to some of her work. But Azeem was speaking not of this but rather the "art of singing". Let's look at Bob Dylan for example. Say what you will about Bob, but his singing voice - expecially when he began, was not one of his "finer" qualities. But we see Dylan as a PERFORMER not primarily for how well he can modulate his vocal chords and control his breathing. It is to listen to his words and how he FURTHER interprets them with his intonation, his voice, his instruments and presentation. The man is a poet - who happen to sing his words (somewhat). I would probably go to see Joni even if she wasn't going to sing at all because her importance to me is her art - in this case her poetry and ability to express emotions and such that many of us have found all to familier. But if I was interested in a purely musical experience there are very many excellent vocalists who can sing circles around Joni - but could never use that talent to interpret what she is trying to say in her work. So I would probly opt for the Joni-ticket even if she was going to "sing" it in american sign language! (signed) Robban (who was at a "Doors" concert two weeks ago - Ray and Robbie are still great musicians - even if Jim is dead and John wasn't there) > -----Original Message----- > From: les@jmdl.com [mailto:les@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of AzeemAK@aol.com > Sent: den 6 juni 2003 19:01 > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Time to quit? > > > I was faced with something like this dilemma a few years ago > when Nina Simone > came to town. A friend of mine asked if I wanted to go, and > I wasn't sure. > I held her in the highest esteem, as one of the true geniuses > of the century, > a unique musician, interpreter, singer and songwriter. Then > again, I had > heard a lot about her recent concerts, which from all > accounts were patchy at > best; I'd seen her on telly hacking through perfunctory > renditions of My Baby Just > Cares For Me and I Put A Spell On You. In the end, I decided > not to go. I > didn't want to sully my impression of her by seeing a > going-through-the-motions > routine from an embittered old lush. > > Obviously, I may have made a huge mistake. And it was my > choice whether I'd > let a bad show influence my esteem for her. But I can live > with that. > Something was preserved in my not going, and I don't regret it. > > Until a few years ago, news of a Joni tour would have meant > instant action > stations. Now, I don't know. The recent evidence tells me > (yes, only my > opinion, yada yada yada) that she simply can't sing any more. > Unless I heard > something to make me change that opinion, I'd probably > decline. In the words of > Rick (sorta), I'll always have Hejira... > > Azeem in London > NP: Radiohead doing some tedious noodling on Later with Jools ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #315 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)