From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #289 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, May 16 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 289 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- permavine UK? [John Sprackland ] re: Doctor's orders -- NJC ["Erin Mc" ] re Atkins (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: re Atkins (NJC) [colin ] Re: re Atkins (NJC) [colin ] Re: some more thoughts: semi-NJC! [colin ] Re: Doctor's orders -- NJC ["hell" ] NJC The Paz Report [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Chuck Mitchell [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: re Atkins (NJC) [TerryM2222@aol.com] njc June Carter Cash [vince ] June Carter Cash [Jerry Notaro ] Dr. Atkins and Weight Watchers NJC ["Emily Griskavich" ] Dr. Atkins and Weight Watchers NJC ["Emily Griskavich" ] Re: njc June Carter Cash [Randy Remote ] New David Sylvian! (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: njc June Carter Cash ["Victor Johnson" ] RE: njc June Carter Cash ["Jerry Notaro" ] RE: re Atkins (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: re Atkins (NJC) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc June Carter Cash [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: some more thoughts: semi-NJC! ["Erin Mc" ] CAMP ASHARA [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: CAMP ASHARA ["Donna Binkley" ] Re: re Atkins (NJC) ["kakki" ] Re: re Atkins (NJC) [vince ] Re: CAMP ASHARA [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #163 [ROSCOE1TC@aol.com] complaint njc [colin ] Re: CAMP ASHARA [] Re: CAMP ASHARA [colin ] Re: re Atkins (NJC) [colin ] Re: some more thoughts: semi-NJC! [colin ] Re: re Atkins (NJC) [TerryM2222@aol.com] Re: re Atkins (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] margaret atwood book tour with Joni mention [magsnbrei ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:30:16 +0100 From: John Sprackland Subject: permavine UK? Hi, is there a copy of the permavine CD circulating the UK? If so I'd dearly love to get in the loop - I have a cassette copy of the Joni/James concert that I recorded direct from the radio wayback but its quality leaves much to be desired... Can anyone help me out? John - -- John Sprackland ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:46:44 +0800 From: "Erin Mc" Subject: re: Doctor's orders -- NJC Somebody's doctor wrote: "Primitive man, before the cultivation of grains, was a hunter/gatherer/scavenver. He existed on a diet of meat, fruits, and seeds. The plains indians were on a similar diet before the advent of the Europeans in the New World. if what you say is true, one wonders how the human race ever survived to consume prodigious quantities of bread, pasta, and refined sugar." So is he advising that we all return to our roots and become full-time foragers? Sounds like fun! The rent is getting high out here in Berkeley anyway...heh.. Erin, who is really sorry that she inadvertently spelled avocado wrong in her last post. The avocado is sacred and deserves all the respect I can give it. - -- Get your free email from http://www.marchmail.com Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 01:27:44 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: re Atkins (NJC) i've seen the atkins diet work really well for people...can be used intermitently for short periods of time to lower cholesterol &/or loose weight...but there is so much crap in meat that the best way to do it is to get the meat from stores that carry brands without hormones & antibiotics... i also find the blood type diet fascinating & mine is pretty much is what i eat naturally so it makes sense to me...recently i was reading about ADD & the different types & how different diets are good or bad depending on the type (relating to dopamine & serotonin, etc.)... all this to say that i agree with those who say that no one diet works for all humans... www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:23:03 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) SoulQuest7@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 5/15/2003 7:00:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >colin@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: > > > > >><>30. My food consisted mainly of grains and whole wheat and other whole >>foods. During that time, I put on over 100lb in weight, I was constantly >>hungry, fatigued, irritable, and had to go to the bathroom all the time >>plus i had stomach problems which resulted in an ulcer. I then switched >>to low carb, stopped being veggie, and all those problems went >>away-iclduing the acid problem>>>.. >> >> >> > >It's an interesting testimony, but I can't imagine being a vegetarian and >trying to live on grains. > I said 'and other whole foods' I didn't kmake ti clear, obviously. I was just pointing out that iddn't have refined carbs, just whole ones-plus Tofu, eggs and dairy. Anyway, the point i was trying to make is this-and i fully agree with you about 'one size fits all' is not good-that fat people are always beeing told 'eat less' if they coudl they wouldn't be fat! there is a PHYSIOLOGICAL reason why fat people are fat and eat too much of the worng foods. I have already explained that with the blood sugar levels/insulin response. Eating very little of the foods which cause this reaction will help, more htan help, to cure the problem. But still people insist that fat people are weak, have no will powwer, and just no good when in fact they have a metabolic problem which is ignored and made worse by people consistantly giving the wrong advice tot hem. In the end people ahve to find their own way. the info is out there. Oh and healht conscience or not, putting on 100lbs is easy when one is caught in that high carb, high blood sugar/low blood sugar cycle and one is no less health conscoius! Having no info, being given wrong advice and being told to eat the foods that are causing the problem! In my own case, i discovered I was gluten intolerant.that in itself casues weight gain and fatigue and worse. And now there is a solution, low carb, people constantly knock it and disparage it when they know not what they are talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:28:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) Kate Bennett wrote: >i've seen the atkins diet work really well for people...can be used >intermitently for short periods of time to lower cholesterol &/or loose >weight... > low carb is not meant to be used for short periods or intermittently. it is meant to be for life. it is not a diet but a natural way of eating for both health reasons and weight loss. yo yo dieting is not good for anyone. Diest are not good for anyone, they do not work. Low carb, even Atkins, does NOT mean NO carb and anyone who reads the atkins book will know this. This NO carb thing has been bandied about a lot but it is a lie. Atkins never advocated it and nor does anyone else. I certainly am not on a 'diet'. I have changed the way I eat, and what i eat. I enjoy my food and do not feel deprived. Yeserdays food: 2 egg omellette with green peppers, spring onions and garlic, chicken tikka masla with veggies, salmon steak with pesto and capers and french beans. Snack-a slice of emmental. 3 litres of water. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:39:59 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: some more thoughts: semi-NJC! Erin Mc wrote: > >To the person who said that they gained 100 lbs. when they went vegetarian, I can only advise that it's very important to include lots of healthy fats in your diet. > yes that is true. however, i was told 'low fat' high carb' thus I ahd all those rpobelms PLUS I am allergic to gluten too! It is good that evganism is good for you and for tothers. Howvwer, manymany opeople DO have an intolerence, a physiologial probelm, with starch foods and that is why obesity and diatbetes has groen so mcuh in the last 30 years-that same amoutn fot ime that our carb intkae has grown. > It's so sad to see so many of my peers caught up in the vicious cycles of food obsession -- some battling obesity, and others, anorexia or bulimia. > Having been thru all three of these, and deeply the hell of them, I agree with you. ALL the treatment centres for such now recommend low carb and have done for many years. For myself and many others, low carb is FREEDOM. In the end we have t live as se think is best for ourselves. No one is sugesting everyone should eat low carb(which is possible on a veagn/veg diet but far too diffiuclt for me). All that is being ugested that people caught in the trap of obesity and other other eating disorders look into it and maybe try it-it may well save your life..... It is also imoprtant to know, really important, that their is a PHYSIOLOGICAL reasonf ro your cravings, and desrie for food.The more crabs you eat, the hungrier you get and the more you want. And by 'you' i mean those with the problem, not thos without. My other half can eat what he pleases and eats cakes and chocoalte and coke and bread and the bastard is slim. He does not have insulin resistence or the other physiological probelms with it. The vast majority or fat people do. when it comes to helping people with these probelsm, it shoudl eb on the basis purely of sound advice and ewantting to help that individual and NOT to further one's own politcal agenda, which could kill them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:21:19 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Doctor's orders -- NJC Erin wrote: > Somebody's doctor wrote: "Primitive man, before the cultivation of grains, was a > hunter/gatherer/scavenver. He existed on a diet of meat, fruits, and > seeds. The plains indians were on a similar diet before the advent of > the Europeans in the New World. if what you say is true, one wonders > how the human race ever survived to consume prodigious quantities of > bread, pasta, and refined sugar." The reason we "crave" these foods goes back many, many thousands of years - before they were in the abundant quantities they are now. Food high in fat and sugar is an instant energy source, and our ancestors would have valued these kinds of foods very highly. It's only now that they are available so readily and in such large quantities that we have the problems we do. It may sound strange that we still have these desires, when we've "progressed" so far from the times were were banging rocks together and chasing mammoths with sticks, but in the actual time-line, we've only been the sophisticated people we are now for a tiny instant! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:24:05 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC The Paz Report Paz mentions: > >Julius catching one of Mikey's baseball games (team is still unbeaten > halfway > >thru the season). > Michael, I'm glad to hear that Julius' catching skills are still intact, but doesn't Mikey's league have an age limit? ;~) Congrats to Mikey, and thanks for making the effort to file that great report. As always I bask in your glow. Julius...would LOVE to hang with you again at the Full Moon, dude...many more "songs in the key of life" for us to conquer! Bring it on! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:34:08 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: Chuck Mitchell Brian, He just played at The Ark, in Ann Arbor, MI. I wasn't able to catch the show. Yes, he still plays out here. Terry www.addconsults.com > My Aunt the one who took me to THE Check Mate in Detroit back in the > Sixties/Seventies says he still sings in the Detroit area.I will email her > and ask for more info. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:39:04 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) Kate, Do you remember where you read that? Was it in Dan Amen's book? Terry www.addconsults.com > recently i was reading about ADD & > the different types &how different diets are good or bad depending on the > type (relating to dopamine &serotonin, etc.)... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:26:30 -0400 From: vince Subject: njc June Carter Cash Her death was announced on NPR this morning. Given her lifelong career going back to her mother Maybelle and the Carter family from the 20s, a real legend is gone, and an era has passed. As with my post on the death of Noel Redding, I expect this one too to pass by without comment from anyone. But do please take time from didactic hectoring of one another on carbs (high vs low) to give a moment's thought to those who have played a part in music history. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:24:59 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: June Carter Cash So sad to hear June Carter Cash has died. So many thought with Johnny being so sick that he would certainly precede her. I played the autoharp for years (still do) and she (along with John Sebastian) were among my musical heroes. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:00:26 -0500 From: "Emily Griskavich" Subject: Dr. Atkins and Weight Watchers NJC Dear Everyone, My lab partner in nutrition chem. did her 10-pg. research paper for that class on the Atkins diet. If anybody wants to see that paper, send me your e-mail with "Atkins Diet" in the subject and I'll forward it to her and see if she can send the paper as a MicroSoft Word attachment. I lost 73 lbs. on Weight Watchers and have kept it off for over a year. Their plan has some moderately strict rules, but it's more like moderation and counting total number of calories (with some consideration of fat and fiber grams) is the main consideration. Whether you prefer higher-carb, higher-protein, or an equal mix of both, the plan can be adapted for you. Does anybody know how I can change my e-mail address for the digest? Sincerely, Emily NP: Eric Carr, "Nightmare" (live demo) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:00:26 -0500 From: "Emily Griskavich" Subject: Dr. Atkins and Weight Watchers NJC Dear Everyone, My lab partner in nutrition chem. did her 10-pg. research paper for that class on the Atkins diet. If anybody wants to see that paper, send me your e-mail with "Atkins Diet" in the subject and I'll forward it to her and see if she can send the paper as a MicroSoft Word attachment. I lost 73 lbs. on Weight Watchers and have kept it off for over a year. Their plan has some moderately strict rules, but it's more like moderation and counting total number of calories (with some consideration of fat and fiber grams) is the main consideration. Whether you prefer higher-carb, higher-protein, or an equal mix of both, the plan can be adapted for you. Does anybody know how I can change my e-mail address for the digest? Sincerely, Emily NP: Eric Carr, "Nightmare" (live demo) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:19:12 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: njc June Carter Cash vince wrote: > Her death was announced on NPR this morning. Given her lifelong career > going back to her mother Maybelle and the Carter family from the 20s, a > real legend is gone, and an era has passed. > > As with my post on the death of Noel Redding, I expect this one too to > pass by without comment from anyone. I don't recall getting this post-this is the first I have heard of the passing of Jimi's bass player. June Carter, besides being Johnny's devoted wife, wrote three of his biggest songs, "Jackson," "Ring of Fire" and "If I Were a Carpenter." As you say, Vince, a legend has passed. There is a nice profile of her from 1999 here: http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/05.13.99/art-cash-9919.html RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:26:23 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: New David Sylvian! (njc) Just went to David Sylvian's website and saw that he is releasing a brand new solo album "Blemish" on May 22, this Tuesday. It looks very interesting...and will most definately be my next cd purchase! I find his music highly innovative and almost always a work of beauty, much like Joni Mitchell. This also will be the first release on his own label which he has just formed. Whooohoooooo!!! Victor NP: David Sylvian "Orpheus" live -downloaded from www.davidsylvian.com Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:34:22 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: njc June Carter Cash > As with my post on the death of Noel Redding, I expect this one too to > pass by without comment from anyone. But do please take time from > didactic hectoring of one another on carbs (high vs low) to give a > moment's thought to those who have played a part in music history. If every post made here was a reflection of what people on the list were thinking I think it would be possibly be a very scary place.:>} I did talk about the passing of June Carter Cash with Holley on the phone this morning...if that counts? Victor Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:44:15 -0400 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: njc June Carter Cash And I did post mine before receiving Vince's prophesizing edict. Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Victor Johnson Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 3:34 PM To: vince Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: njc June Carter Cash > As with my post on the death of Noel Redding, I expect this one too to > pass by without comment from anyone. But do please take time from > didactic hectoring of one another on carbs (high vs low) to give a > moment's thought to those who have played a part in music history. If every post made here was a reflection of what people on the list were thinking I think it would be possibly be a very scary place.:>} I did talk about the passing of June Carter Cash with Holley on the phone this morning...if that counts? Victor Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:58:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: re Atkins (NJC) yes it was on dr amen's website- do a google search for amen clinic or add test...there is a test you can take with a link to nutrition according to type of add...fascinating (i've always loved brain info!) >Do you remember where you read that? Was it in Dan Amen's book?< www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:58:39 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: re Atkins (NJC) didn't mean this as a yo you diet thing but only as a recommendation to what works to get someone on track which it does...especially if you are someone who doesn't like eating lots of meat all the time, you can do this diet strictly for specific purposes to get on track then yes, what you said colin, eat more nutritionally which is the key (i've been a health nut all my life...organic, mostly vegitarian, etc...but i love potatoes & rice, pasta, etc...hardly ever crave sweets so that part is easy) www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:07:38 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: njc June Carter Cash I too, am sorry to hear about the death of June Carter Cash, Robert Stack, and Dr. Atkins, but guys "didactic hectoring" and "prophesizing edict". You're making me use the dictionary way too much today. I'm just an ignorant southern boy :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 04:28:26 +0800 From: "Erin Mc" Subject: Re: some more thoughts: semi-NJC! While it's true that once obesity starts, whether due to psychological or physiological reasons (or both), it's difficult to reverse, I disagree that it's always caused by slow metabolism and/or genetics. Sure, some people can eat 5000 calories a day and not gain an ounce, but this doesn't mean that those of us who can't do that are metabolically challenged: it means we're normal. Metabolism varies widely and everyone processes food a different rate, but once we've learned what our body can comfortable process, it's up to us to eat sensibly within that range. Obesity as a prevailing epidemic is a relatively recent phenomenon -- until this century, it was a privilege reserved for the rich, and a physical ideal aspired to by many peasants. Plumpness was deemed attractive because of what it represented: wealth, plentiful cupboards, a life free of manual labor. Most people _do_ gain weight as a result of their diet and exercise patterns - to refute this claim would be inconsistent with thousands of scientific findings. I certainly don't think that demonizing fat people is the way to go, however. Any addiction, whether it's heroin, food, or behavior, should be approached with compassion, and all people should be able to feel wonderful about themselves no matter where they're at. I can't help but notice, though, that the happiest, most vibrant fat people I know are the ones who are like "That's right, I like my cake; that's right, I have a big ass. Love it or leave it." They glow because they love themselves, and they know why they're fat and are okay with that. Ultimately, they're probably also a lot healthier than people who yo-yo back and forth and obsess constantly over food. That said, I've only ever gained weight for two reasons in my life: because of decreased inactivity, and because of overindulgence. This may not be the universal experience, but it seems to be the case with most people I talk to, including my overweight friends. Certainly, 2 to 5% of obesity may be caused by other circumstances like medication or irreversible medical conditions, but I think Americans are often quick to seek some diagnosis for everything instead of simply acknowledging the cause and effect relationship between their decisions. > when it comes to helping people with these probelsm, it shoudl eb on the > basis purely of sound advice and ewantting to help that individual and > NOT to further one's own politcal agenda, which could kill them. You get into tricky territory here when you call a personal, ethical (often spiritual) dietary choice a political agenda. I could say, in response, "when it comes to perpetuating the suffering of animals who are living in inhumane, crowded conditions and being slaughtered in brutal, drawn-out ways while pumped full of hormones, it should be purely on the basis of potential for personal weight loss", but I won't. When it comes to making decisions that will enrich our lives, ethics and politics always come into play. There are a lot of things that would seem to benefit my life that don't serve the greater good -- then, I am no saint. Every day is a balancing act -- we all make compromises, and of our choices are made with different degrees of selflessness in mind. Everyone has to figure out their comfort level and go with it. Many people are extremely disconnected with the food production process, so it's hard to feel like some folks are even in the position to consider the ramifications of what they're eating. A small minority of people out there can say "I know where this came from and how it was produced, and I would like to eat it anyway." Industry conditions, sadly, favor physical uniformity over product quality -- particularly when it comes to conventional farming and genetically modified foods. When I decide to buy non-organic produce, I always think about the young migrant farmer who is suffering from lymphoma caused by his overexposure to pesticides. If I go ahead and do it, I am responsible for my decision. I truly believe that most people want what's best for both themselves and the world in their heart of hearts, but we are living in scary times. It's hard to make every act a political one when you're a single mom struggling to get by, and I know this. Trying to strike a balance between what we feel we need in our lives and what will serve the greater good can often be excruciatingly difficult, and I often fail to live up to my own standards. I only seek to be _aware_ of everything I consume, in diet and otherwise. That is the best I can do; that is the best all of us can do. I really ought to cap my pen now; if I talk about food production or diet any longer I'll be here all year. Would anyone out there like to tell me about Saskatchewan? I've never been to Canada's prairie provinces, but I'm aching to go next spring and would like to make a special stop at one Saskatoon gallery. Erin, long-winded as always - -- Get your free email from http://www.marchmail.com Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:42:07 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: CAMP ASHARA CAMP ASHARA Hello Muddah, hello Faddah Here I am at Camp Ashara Full Moon's pretty, lots of vistas It's so nice to have some fun with Jonilistas I just knocked up Susan Guzzi We're expecting something fuzzy You remember Mr. Muller He's got lots of cold King Cobras in his cooler The ambassadors are all Canuckers And the duck swears like a trucker Things are crazy, a little nutsy But I really like Maggie and Alex Krutsky Michael Paz is showing his dinky I just heard screams from Donna Binkley That's a funny way to greet her Heard he did the same thing to Patrick Leader I got a room with Walt and Wally They sing show tunes like "Hello, Dolly" You remember Jimmy Stewart Anything that's not nailed down this guy will screw it Lots of cigs here, lots of nicotine But there's none for poor old Epstein I just heard some dirt that's juicy It's about Uncle John and Claud SanSoucie Let me stay, oh Muddah, Faddah Let me stay, at Camp Ashara Way up here in the forest where I might get eaten by a bear Let me stay, I promise that I won't make noise Or stay up till dawn with naughty girls and boys Oh, please let me stay I'll be back within four days Went to the pool with lovely Lieve She kept her suit on, what a diva She just jumped in and she swam on So I caught some sun with Mrs. Cameron Once again now, Jody's camping And again now, Ed Jordan's vamping John and Bette's trailer's rockin' But that won't stop me from goin' knockin' Dinner's ready, I hear they're servin' Should get in line with Mr. Irvin? Here comes Julius, McKay and Ali But where the hell is Mike O'Malley? Anne Sandstrom is such a flirt, oh! Now she's singing with Roberto Hey, I think there'll be a stampede When Jaco Marshall plays with Jenny Goodspeed Oh to be here, we're all so lucky Just like Barb and her ChuckE If they arrest us, we'll get acquittal Even Nikki, Lori, Cindy and Ms. Little Dearest Faddah, darling Muddah Have to run now, yeah I gotta Frisbee's starting, there's Mags and Brian Gee, there must be a hundred million covers flyin' Wait a minute, I hear Joni It's the real one, not some phony There you have it, all the details Muddah, Faddah, hope you like this e-mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:49:56 -0500 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: CAMP ASHARA BRAVO!! BRAVA!! You've outdone yourself once again Smurphy!! Thanks for keeping us rolling on the floor (laughing that is). love donna >>> 5/16/2003 3:42:07 PM >>> CAMP ASHARA Hello Muddah, hello Faddah Here I am at Camp Ashara Full Moon's pretty, lots of vistas It's so nice to have some fun with Jonilistas I just knocked up Susan Guzzi We're expecting something fuzzy You remember Mr. Muller He's got lots of cold King Cobras in his cooler The ambassadors are all Canuckers And the duck swears like a trucker Things are crazy, a little nutsy But I really like Maggie and Alex Krutsky Michael Paz is showing his dinky I just heard screams from Donna Binkley That's a funny way to greet her Heard he did the same thing to Patrick Leader I got a room with Walt and Wally They sing show tunes like "Hello, Dolly" You remember Jimmy Stewart Anything that's not nailed down this guy will screw it Lots of cigs here, lots of nicotine But there's none for poor old Epstein I just heard some dirt that's juicy It's about Uncle John and Claud SanSoucie Let me stay, oh Muddah, Faddah Let me stay, at Camp Ashara Way up here in the forest where I might get eaten by a bear Let me stay, I promise that I won't make noise Or stay up till dawn with naughty girls and boys Oh, please let me stay I'll be back within four days Went to the pool with lovely Lieve She kept her suit on, what a diva She just jumped in and she swam on So I caught some sun with Mrs. Cameron Once again now, Jody's camping And again now, Ed Jordan's vamping John and Bette's trailer's rockin' But that won't stop me from goin' knockin' Dinner's ready, I hear they're servin' Should get in line with Mr. Irvin? Here comes Julius, McKay and Ali But where the hell is Mike O'Malley? Anne Sandstrom is such a flirt, oh! Now she's singing with Roberto Hey, I think there'll be a stampede When Jaco Marshall plays with Jenny Goodspeed Oh to be here, we're all so lucky Just like Barb and her ChuckE If they arrest us, we'll get acquittal Even Nikki, Lori, Cindy and Ms. Little Dearest Faddah, darling Muddah Have to run now, yeah I gotta Frisbee's starting, there's Mags and Brian Gee, there must be a hundred million covers flyin' Wait a minute, I hear Joni It's the real one, not some phony There you have it, all the details Muddah, Faddah, hope you like this e-mail This message has been scanned by the E250. This message has been scanned by the E250. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:55:53 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) Interesting discussion and I'm glad to see that there is now more of an awareness out there that one size does not fit all. When I first went to college over 30 years ago I developed an out of control sugar/insulin condition and anemia. It was brought on by the shock to my system of having to eat mostly the all carb foods offered in the dormitory kitchen (because they were cheap to buy and prepare in bulk.) My doctor put me on a very strange-sounding at the time diet where I could only eat meat, cheese, eggs, and the most odious of green vegetables, such as Brussel Sprouts. In other words, absolutely no carb containing foods of any kind and no sweets, candy, cakes, etc. It took two years of strictly adhering to this diet for my blood levels to finally return to normal. I still stay pretty to this kind of diet to this day, although I can now have the occasional dish of potato, pasta and piece of bread without bad effect. I can also indulge in a bit of chocolate from time to time, but anything more than one piece of cake makes me literally nauseous. The previous high carb diet did not make me gain weight - I weighed 98 lbs. for years from a high metabolism, but I can see having a weight problem if I'd not been so young at the time. I've had numerous people "hector" me over the years for eating meat, especially red meat, on an almost daily basis. They would scoff when I told them of my history and that I *had* to eat it. I have a cousin who developed pernicious anemia from becoming a vegetarian and has even had to have blood transfusions. Her doctors have begged her to start eating meat. I know vegetarians say that there are other substitutes in a vegan diet that can prevent anemia but they do not work for her. I think this shows that people do have individual dietary requirements based on heredity and other factors. Kakki, carnivore ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:57:57 -0400 From: vince Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) Absolutely right, Kakki, absolutely right. There is no one solution or diet or anything that works for everyone - some of the absolute and sweeping comments made in the diets thread have been off-putting to me because each person has a different body chemistry. Vince kakki wrote: >I think this shows that people >do have individual dietary requirements based on heredity and other factors. > >Kakki, carnivore ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:07:59 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: CAMP ASHARA Now that was f**king funny Bob Murphy!!!! Alan Sherman would be so proud of you, I know I am. ......and if any of you people who are on the fence about going to Jonifest, Murphy is even funnier in person!!! LMbigAO!!! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:16:50 EDT From: ROSCOE1TC@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #163 let me first apologize for my ignorance. i don't understand the permavine thing, but i'd love, love, love to have that disc for a day or two. i have no idea even how to burn a cd or even if this machine of mine will do that, but i could always tape it. if someone has the time and or the energy to explain it to me, i'll do my part to be worthy of hearing the disc. terry roscoe1tc@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 22:38:41 +0100 From: colin Subject: complaint njc >> A real-life customer complaint letter sent to NTL (from their Complaints >> Dept....) >> >> Dear Cretins, >> >> I have been an NTL customer since 9th July 2001, when I signed up for your >> 3-in-one deal for cable TV, cable modem, and telephone. During this >> three-month period I have encountered inadequacy of service which I had >> not previously considered possible, as well as ignorance and stupidity of >> monolithic proportions. >> >> Please allow me to provide specific details, so that you can either pursue >> your professional prerogative, and seek to rectify these difficulties - or >> more likely (I suspect) so that you can have some entertaining reading >> material as you while away the working day smoking B&H and drinking >> vendor-coffee on the bog in your office: My initial installation was >> cancelled without warning, resulting in my spending an entire Saturday >> sitting on my fat arse waiting for your technician to arrive. When he did >> not arrive, I spent a further 57 minutes listening to your infuriating >> hold music, and the even more annoying Scottish robot woman telling me to >> look at your helpful website.... HOW?! >> >> I alleviated the boredom by playing with my testicles for a few minutes - >> an activity at which you are no-doubt both familiar and highly adept. The >> rescheduled installation then took place some two weeks later, although >> the technician did forget to bring a number of vital tools - such as a >> drill-bit, and his cerebrum. Two weeks later, my cable modem had still not >> arrived. After 15 telephone calls over 4 weeks my modem arrived...six >> weeks after I had requested it, and begun to pay for it. I estimate your >> internet servers downtime is roughly 35%... hours between about 6pm >> -midnight, Mon-Fri, and most of the weekend. >> >> I am still waiting for my telephone connection. I have made 9 calls on my >> mobile to your no-help line, and have been unhelpfully transferred to a >> variety of disinterested individuals, who are it seems also highly-skilled >> bollock jugglers. I have been informed that a telephone line is available >> (and someone will call me back); that no telephone line is available (and >> someone will call me back); that I will be transferred to someone who >> knows whether or not a telephone line is available (and then been cut >> off); that I will be transferred to someone (and then been redirected to >> an answer machine informing me that your office is closed); that I will be >> transferred to someone and then been redirected to the irritating Scottish >> robot woman...and several other variations on this theme. >> >> Doubtless you are no-longer reading this letter, as you have at least a >> thousand other dissatisfied customers to ignore, and also another one of >> those crucially important testicle-moments to attend to. Frankly I don't >> care, it's far more satisfying as a customer to voice my frustrations in >> print than to shout them at your unending hold music. >> >> Forgive me, therefore, if I continue. I thought BT were shit, that they >> had attained the holy piss-pot of god-awful customer relations, that >> no-one, anywhere, ever, could be more uninterested, less helpful or more >> obstructive to delivering service to their customers. That's why I chose >> NTL, and because, well, there isn't anyone else is there? How surprised I >> therefore was, when I discovered to my considerable dissatisfaction and >> disappointment what a useless shower of bastards you truly are. You are >> sputum-filled pieces of distended rectum - incompetents of the highest >> order. British Telecom - wankers though they are - shine like brilliant >> beacons of success, in the filthy puss-filled mire of your seemingly >> limitless inadequacy. Suffice to say that I have now given up on my futile >> and foolhardy quest to receive any kind of service from you. I suggest >> that you cease any potential future attempts to extort payment from me for >> the services which you have so pointedly and catastrophically failed to >> deliver - any such activity will be greeted initially with hilarity and >> disbelief - quickly to be replaced by derision, and even perhaps bemused >> rage. >> >> I enclose two small deposits, selected with great care from my cats litter >> tray, as an expression of my utter and complete contempt for both you and >> your pointless company. I sincerely hope that they have not become >> desiccated during transit - they were satisfyingly moist at the time of >> posting, and I would feel considerable disappointment if you did not >> experience both their rich aroma and delicate texture. Consider them the >> very embodiment of my feelings towards NTL, and it's worthless employees. >> >> Have a nice day - may it be the last in your miserable short life, You >> irritatingly incompetent and infuriatingly unhelpful bunch of twits. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 18:16:22 -0400 From: Subject: Re: CAMP ASHARA - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: CAMP ASHARA > CAMP ASHARA Laughing my butt off!!! This is a scream!!!! If I hadn't already made up my mind to go...this would have pushed me off the fence. Bev ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:27:51 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: CAMP ASHARA >Thank you smurph! LOL! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:38:15 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) kakki wrote: >Interesting discussion and I'm glad to see that there is now more of an >awareness out there that one size does not fit all. > I don't know why so many people seem to think they know how another person should eat.... > I developed an out of control sugar/insulin >condition and anemia. It was brought on by the shock to my system of having >to eat mostly the all carb foods offered in the dormitory kitchen (because >they were cheap to buy and prepare in bulk.) > this is a very common experience(not the anaemia) > My doctor put me on a very >strange-sounding at the time diet where I could only eat meat, cheese, eggs, >and the most odious of green vegetables, such as Brussel Sprouts. In other >words, absolutely no carb containing foods of any kind and no sweets, candy, >cakes, etc. It took two years of strictly adhering to this diet for my >blood levels to finally return to normal. I still stay pretty to this kind >of diet to this day, although I can now have the occasional dish of potato, >pasta and piece of bread without bad effect. > which is how 'low carbers' do it. Aren't we know you are not dead Kakki! > I can also indulge in a bit of >chocolate from time to time, but anything more than one piece of cake makes >me literally nauseous. > a little of what you fancy..... > The previous high carb diet did not make me gain >weight - I weighed 98 lbs. > lucky you! > I have a cousin who developed pernicious >anemia from becoming a vegetarian and has even had to have blood >transfusions. Her doctors have begged her to start eating meat. I know >vegetarians say that there are other substitutes in a vegan diet that can >prevent anemia but they do not work for her. > a diet that NEEDS to be supplemented cannot be correct.... > I think this shows that people >do have individual dietary requirements based on heredity and other factors. > exactly. > >Kakki, carnivore ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:47:59 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: some more thoughts: semi-NJC! Erin Mc wrote: > >Obesity as a prevailing epidemic is a relatively recent phenomenon -- > yes-because of the now abundant carbs > until this century, it was a privilege reserved for the rich, and a physical ideal aspired to by many peasants. > likewise ebcause they were able to eatcarb rich foods whicht eh poor could not > >Most people _do_ gain weight as a result of their diet and exercise patterns - to refute this claim would be inconsistent with thousands of scientific findings. > It wouldn't. It would depend on which studies and how recently they were done. Many scientitists now understand that excess 'calories= fat' is not true, is simplistic etc. Ther est fo your points I ahev no truoble with at all. the way we live is not good, food production is not good. Most everyhting we do has politcal ramifications, regardless of whetehr we have time to think about it. However, to expect people to die in order fit in with some ethical way of eating, is not realistic. Obesity ias about what you eat but not in the simplistic way put forawrd bymany, it is about high/low blood sugar levels casued by eating strachy foods. some peopel cannot do this without having the overwhelming urge to eat more, a physiological urge that is not combatable except by not eating the starch in the first place. then one has to have the support/determination, to be able to get thru the first few days starch free. Once that is done, the rest is a doddle! bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:20:10 EDT From: TerryM2222@aol.com Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) Yes- I have that book but haven't read it yet. He's been called a maverick or an opportunist, but he certainly has some interesting things to say. Terry www.addconsults.com > yes it was on dr amen's website- do a google search for amen clinic or add > test...there is a test you can take with a link to nutrition according to > type of add...fascinating (i've always loved brain info!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: re Atkins (NJC) --- kakki wrote: > Interesting discussion and I'm glad to see that > there is now more of an > awareness out there that one size does not fit all. > When I first went to > college over 30 years ago I developed an out of > control sugar/insulin > condition and anemia. ... > I've had > numerous people "hector" me over the years for > eating meat, especially red > meat, on an almost daily basis. They would scoff > when I told them of my > history and that I *had* to eat it. When my daughter was about 18 months old, she had an enlarged liver and spleen. She was sent for blood tests that showed abnormal liver function, but tests for the usual suspects like hepatitis in any of its forms came back negative. One thing they suspected was something called glycogen storage disease, which is an inborn metabolic error. One of the possible treatments or ways of dealing with this disease would be a diet high in protein. Fortunately for us, after they did a biopsy, they were able to rule out GSD and didn't want to go any further because the kid seemed otherwise perfectly healthy and they didn't want to create a sickly child, or do any unnecessary invasive procedures. Over the period of the next six months to a year, her liver function amd size slowly went back to normal and they decided it had to have been some kind of virus that caused the problem, which hasn't recurred since. All this to say that sometimes what we might think of as a rather strange diet may be necessary. There are so many people who are lactose-intolerant or who can't eat anything with gluten in it (I knew one poor guy who couldn't eat anything with gluten OR lactose in it & all I ever saw him eating was rice crackers!) I don't know about Atkins because I think I only have part of the picture (to me it sounded like all you ate was meat and vegetables, but apparently that's a mistaken impression); but some time ago, I was on a diet which restricted carbs (not in any impossible way but if you were eating a sandwich, for example, it had to be open-face - one piece of bread only, preferably whole-grain; protein but low fat (so fish was good, bacon was not; cheese should be low fat); you were allowed to eat as many of certain types of veggies as you could, but with smaller portions of the "other" kinds of veggies (like carrots, for example) and fruit. I lost 40 pounds that way, but unfortunately fell off the wagon and have now gained back the 40 plus. This diet is actually pretty simple to follow, and, as Colin says, it's a way of life nutrition-wise, rather than a diet. In addition, if you really, really wanted something sweet and decadent, you were allowed to indulge, but you had to think first about what it would rate out of ten and only eat it if it was a ten - - that way you could indulge in something really wonderful without guilt and, believe it or not, often you would just decide to wait until another time. I really have no excuse for not altering my ways - I eat way too much fat and starchy things because I'm just too lazy to cut and peel vegetables. Add to that the stress of work, trying to raise a couple of kids and trying to maintain a house, and the fact that the work-ethic these days seems to be such that you're looked upon strangely if you dare take a lunch hour. I spend my whole day just about sitting at my desk or in a meeting room - and I wonder why I have such a fat ass! In fact, no one's going to thank me at the end of it all for always being at my desk and it's basically up to me to take control of that stuff (awww, but it's so HARD!) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:26:22 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: margaret atwood book tour with Joni mention http://www.randomhouse.com/features/atwood/tour.html ( dates/locations at above link) Margaret is on tour to promote her new book, Oryx and Crake, and this link leads you to an essay that Atwood wrote about it. The idea originated while she was on a tour for Blind Assasin in Australia. The story behind the story is quite wonderful. http://www.randomhouse.com/features/atwood/essay.html when Joni received her star of fame in Toronto in front of the Royal Alex theatre, Margaret Atwood was there the same day to receive hers. So you see...there IS a Joni connection everywhere you look. Mags, a big fan of Atwood. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 22:32:33 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: PermaVine discs Re.: John & Casey who were sending me PermaVine discs: I originally requested Casey to send me a disc because I thought it was one of the copies; I thought I couldn't make a copy for myself if I got an original made from a computer burner (I have a Phillips CD burner/not through a computer) 'cause I wasn't sure my Phillips would read the computer made CD (I have to use blanks in my burner that do not work in a computer CD burner and blanks for computer burners do not work in my Phillips-it reads "no disc recognized".) Then, I thought I might be able to copy the PermaVine original since it's already "finalized" so I requested the one from John. Now, Casey isn't sending me his 'cause he thinks John is sending me one and John isn't sending me his 'cause he thinks Casey is sending me one. I'm sorry if I caused confusion, folks... but at this point, I don't have one coming so if anyone still has one up for grabs, I'd appreciate a shot at it. Thanks. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 20:15:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni and Margaret Atwood For those of you who don't know her, Margaret Atwood is Canada's most acclaimed writer these days, honours out the wazoo, just like Joan. And they're both Scorpios! I have a photo of the two of them hugging at Canada's Walk of Fame, both of them looking thrilled to be there, grinning from ear to ear. Three Atwood greats: The Handmaid's Tale, The Edible Woman, Alias Grace. Atwood style: deadpan, witty, descriptive, philosophical, feminist, socio-political. - -Andrew __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #289 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)