From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #263 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 28 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 263 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: dirty words NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Re: dirty words NJC ["mike pritchard" ] Next Vine Offer . . . and a request [CDTraderJohn@aol.com] RE: dirty words NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: dirty words NJC [Catherine McKay ] word from Colin [anne@sandstrom.com] RE: dirty words NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: dirty words NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: dirty words NJC [=?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= ] NJC Jonifest & Stryngs [Chris Marshall ] Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs [Catherine McKay ] Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs ["Suze Cameron" ] Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs [hell ] Re: Transcription error in Joni tune [PassScribe@aol.com] Today in History: April 28 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:20:47 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: dirty words NJC >>As you should know, Coqo (it should appear Cono with a jot over the n) is the usual 4 letter word for the v of OVA then, "Coqazo" (cognazo) means unbearable, boring, etc "coqa" (cogna): some not-serious thing, a joke (specially when someone tells at you "estas de coqa" meaning that you're not serious when you should be)<< Bon Dia Emiliano, I don't know about Galicia, or Gallego, its native language, but here in Catalunya we don't have a problem with the letter you mention (the n with a tilde over it as in manana for tomorrow/morning) because the letter doesn't exist in Catalan as we use the combination of 'n' and 'y' to express the nasal sound. Here the word you mention as 'coqo' would be written 'cony' and you can therefore use it on an Anglo keyboard, if you should wish. I don't want to get too far into this but will mention one or two more, not all related to the cony word, but to the 'ny' sound: Fer (to make) conya - to joke around, to jerk around, to mock something De conya - in fun, in jest; also means that something went very well, to turn out perfectly, as a driving exam, a supper etc. Ni de conya - no way Conyarri - man who incessantly chases women Conyac - brandy (natch) mike in barcelona, waiting for Gill's input... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:20:47 +0200 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: dirty words NJC >>As you should know, Coqo (it should appear Cono with a jot over the n) is the usual 4 letter word for the v of OVA then, "Coqazo" (cognazo) means unbearable, boring, etc "coqa" (cogna): some not-serious thing, a joke (specially when someone tells at you "estas de coqa" meaning that you're not serious when you should be)<< Bon Dia Emiliano, I don't know about Galicia, or Gallego, its native language, but here in Catalunya we don't have a problem with the letter you mention (the n with a tilde over it as in manana for tomorrow/morning) because the letter doesn't exist in Catalan as we use the combination of 'n' and 'y' to express the nasal sound. Here the word you mention as 'coqo' would be written 'cony' and you can therefore use it on an Anglo keyboard, if you should wish. I don't want to get too far into this but will mention one or two more, not all related to the cony word, but to the 'ny' sound: Fer (to make) conya - to joke around, to jerk around, to mock something De conya - in fun, in jest; also means that something went very well, to turn out perfectly, as a driving exam, a supper etc. Ni de conya - no way Conyarri - man who incessantly chases women Conyac - brandy (natch) mike in barcelona, waiting for Gill's input... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 08:58:08 EDT From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Next Vine Offer . . . and a request Greetings all, For the next vine, I'd like to circulate a good, clean copy of Joni's 1967 performance at The Courier's Folk Club in Leicester, UK but my copy has come from a TAO disc (gaps between tracks) and is probably 1 or 2 generations removed from the original tape (though it's better than many versions I've heard). Is there anyone out there who can provide me with a non-gapped (DAO) copy of this great show, preferably from a lower generation source? I can remove the gaps on the one I have, if necessary, but I'd prefer to find a better source copy BEFORE I begin working on this next vine. Thanks, John Epstein in Massachusetts ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:13:53 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: dirty words NJC the only phrase in argentine spanish that includes the word cono is "que cono queres?" and it is not that common anyway (the usual ways are "que carajo queres?" or "que mierda queres?". i wonder why we don't have the same dirty words as they have in spain. our word for "cono" is "concha" (shell), which is totally ok in spain but quite taboo here. also "coger", which means "take" in spain and "fuck" here!!! it is so funny to hear spaniards say "coger un autobus" or "coger un resfriado". conversely, "joder" here means "to have fun, to fool around" and it is pretty permissible in conversation, whereas in spain it means "to fuck" and not quite so acceptable. why are some words "dirty"? because they refer to bodily parts and functions? as to gender neutral expressions, which are so central to Politically Correct language, have you noticed that they are quite impossible in spanish? wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de mike pritchard Enviado el: Domingo, 27 de Abril de 2003 06:21 a.m. Para: list CC: emilianopd@mundo-r.com Asunto: Re: dirty words NJC >>As you should know, Coqo (it should appear Cono with a jot over the n) is the usual 4 letter word for the v of OVA then, "Coqazo" (cognazo) means unbearable, boring, etc "coqa" (cogna): some not-serious thing, a joke (specially when someone tells at you "estas de coqa" meaning that you're not serious when you should be)<< ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 10:19:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: dirty words NJC --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > > why are some words "dirty"? because they refer to > bodily parts and > functions? > as to gender neutral expressions, which are so > central to Politically > Correct language, have you noticed that they are > quite impossible in > spanish? > wally In Quebec French, most of the "dirty" (maybe not so much dirty as not acceptable in polite language) words related to the Catholic church and not to body parts. I'm not sure if they're unique in that. Many common swear words in Quebec French are things like "Chriss!" which is "Christ", or "sacre" (accent aigu on the e) which is sacred, or holy, but probably translates into English as more like "bloody", not exactly a swear word, but not really polite either; or the French word for "chalice" (calice, accent circonflex on the a) or "tabernacle" (tabarnac, tabarhuit, tabarluche!) I think this relates to the fact that the Catholic church had such a hold on the Quebecois for such a long time and was in cahoots with the government of the time to keep the people down, or in check, or whatever, which caused their profanity to use church-related, rather than body part- or function-related swear words. It's difficult to know what equivalent words in English to use sometimes because translating literally definitely doesn't work, so you have to go by how "bad" a particular expression is supposed to be, then pick something equally "bad" in English(and of course, the f-word is so common these days that, oh well, never mind, you know what I mean - if these words become commonplace, what will we use when we *really* want to offend people?) I figure most swearing or impolite language relates to repression or opression (and ultimately fear, and the way we deal with it): some words to bring the repressed thing into the light, others to ensure opression continues (because if it does, then you don't need to be afraid of what is "other" or different), as in Emiliano's examples of anything related to female parts being weak or bad or undesirable, but anything related to male body parts being good - somehow this doesn't surprise me - 'twas ever thus! And then of course there's Colonel Scheisskopf in Catch 22, and I'm sure you realize Scheisskopf is German for Shithead. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 07:22:00 -0700 (PDT) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: word from Colin My apologies for no NJC tag, but I thought you might all want to know about Colin's progress. He's home and resting. It appears he's got a trapped nerve or oseoarthritis that causes severe neck and shoulder pain. Still, he's due to have a stress test in a little over a week. I have his address for those who wish to send a card. Please email me privately and I'll send it to you. He said to tell you all thank you for your well wishes. He can't respond to everyone's emails because he's not even supposed to be typing at this point. (He snuck onto the computer to email me...) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:29:16 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: dirty words NJC this is so interesting, catherine! and why would victorian english speakers find the word "bloody" so offensive? that's always puzzled me. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Catherine McKay Enviado el: Domingo, 27 de Abril de 2003 11:19 a.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; mike pritchard; list CC: emilianopd@mundo-r.com Asunto: RE: dirty words NJC In Quebec French, most of the "dirty" (maybe not so much dirty as not acceptable in polite language) words related to the Catholic church and not to body parts. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:34:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: dirty words NJC --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > this is so interesting, catherine! > and why would victorian english speakers find the > word "bloody" so > offensive? that's always puzzled me. > wally Don't ask me! Some people faint at the sight of blood? (My sister, who is a lab tech, can take other people's blood, no problem - but if she hurts herself and bleeds more than just a little cut, she passes out.) I dunno! It probably wasn't a word used in "polite" company, when ladies were supposedly swooning all over the place - although that was probably because their corsets were so tight they couldn't breathe, and not because strong language might offend them. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:57:05 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= Subject: Re: dirty words NJC Catherine wrote: > (and of course, the f-word is so common > these days that, oh well, never mind, you know what I > mean - if these words become commonplace, what will we > use when we *really* want to offend people?) > You're right: f-words are useful when one does get angry: does it mean we get angry every day? I'd love to hear it isn't so! > anything related to female parts being weak or bad or > undesirable, but anything related to male body parts > being good - somehow this doesn't surprise me - 'twas > ever thus! > Yeah! that's what I meant by trying to be politically correct! I try to avoid these sexist expressions that belong to mainstream culture (as long as racist expressioins too!) That opposition between men and women has been first (i think) theorised by pithagorians who, stating that everything arise from opposition, they developed two pairs of concepts: one was Limit, Light, Odd, Good, Man, Whit etc. The other was Unlimited, Darkness, Even, Evil, Woman, Black etc. (As you can see, woman corresponds to evil: it's a manifestation of what is bad done in reality) Wally wrote: > as to gender neutral expressions, which are so central to Politically > Correct language, have you noticed that they are quite impossible in > spanish? Well, we try. Every year I told my pupils (at least in Ethic courses) about it: As you know, in spanish language we have gender variations on almost noun and adjective: subsequently, it's usual by now referring to "chicos y chicas", "alumnos y alumnas": that is expressed, when writing, as alumnos/as or, more modernly, alumn@s ! It's some boring in many cases, but... Even, there's some jokes about this fever getting some politics to say "jovenes and jovenas" (a word that doesn't exist) But in english they are gender oriented expressions, also: much of expressions that mean "in general" are very manly balanced: mankind, brotherhood, etc BTW: Wally, I enjoy recalling funny misunderstoods between argentins and spaniards: "Concha", is the usual familiar name for Concepcion (a name of woman that was hugely usual some years ago: it has disappeared by now but it's another matter), so many people from your country would feel surprised to hear someone yelling "Conchita" in the streets; also, my auntie, when she travelled at a airport shop, liked so much to say "!Coja uno!" (Take one! / F!!k one!... refering to some candy) when some argentinian couple happened to enter the shop! Have a wonderful time, you Girls & Boys! Emiliano from Galicia, always carefully avoiding not to underestimate no *great* part of reality NP: Woodstock, from Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 16:11:06 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: the boston globe loves her Anne recently pointed out how the Boston Globe's TV columnist used Joni song titles for an entire day's worth of TV reviews. (I think it was the same night as the American Masters special.) And I have mentioned Joni references from the Globe's TV section before. Well, now the Sunday Book Review section has gotten into the act. There's a book titled "The Patience of Rivers" by Joseph Freda reviewed in today's Globe. The headline on the article is "By the time we got to Yasgur's farm, we were overloaded." The new book is a novel that deals with 1969 and Woodstock, so if anyone reads it and finds a Joni mention, please let me know. (Norton, 351 pp., $24.95) Also, in the small-world-isn't-it department, the book is reviewed by Chris Bohjalian, author of "Midwives" and "Buffalo Soldier," whose brother I used to work with in NYC! The world has been shrinking, not me . . . --Bob, thinking about getting a life ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 14:15:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Crosby/Guinnevere/CPR kenny b>> And I've seen/hard Crosby in his latest shows (with his son & new band CPR) and his voice HAS gotten stronger and better than ever.<< amen to that! cpr is an amazing band...especially live... & now it's time for a shameless plug...jeff pevar (the P in CPR) lends his extraordinary talents to my cd which is available at www.cdbaby.com (the proceeds will go towards helping me to finish my current cd project which i hope will also include a joni cover! thanks to all of you jmdlers who have so generously supported me so far!) www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:48:50 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs Hullo gang, Just thought I'd add my voice to encourage those that are sat on the fence (particularly Jonifest virgins) to get off it - now! It's an uncomfortable place, and the grass is most certainly greener at the Full Moon. It's a non-regrettable experience... really. After last year's resounding success, it simply cannot fall flat this year. It just can't. Secondly, THE BAND IS COMING! Martin (Giles) was thinking about it this week, and between us we encouraged Strings to come too (didn't take much work, in truth). I am just TOO EXCITED for words about this. We're coming, and we're going to play stuff at ya. Presumptious, but I can't wait :) :) :) Cheers, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:10:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs --- Chris Marshall wrote: > THE BAND IS COMING! Martin (Giles) was > thinking > about it this week, and between us we encouraged > Strings > to come too (didn't take much work, in truth). I am > just > TOO EXCITED for words about this. > > We're coming, and we're going to play stuff at ya. > Presumptious, but I can't wait :) :) :) This is FANTASTIC news! All the more reason to SIGN UP NOW ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:13:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs --- Catherine McKay wrote: > - --- Chris Marshall wrote: > > THE BAND IS COMING! Martin (Giles) was > > thinking > > about it this week, and between us we encouraged > > Strings > > to come too (didn't take much work, in truth). I > am > > just > > TOO EXCITED for words about this. > > > > We're coming, and we're going to play stuff at ya. > > Presumptious, but I can't wait :) :) :) > > This is FANTASTIC news! All the more reason to SIGN > UP NOW Sorry 'bout that. I hit some weird combination of keys that "sent" that message before it was ready to go. This is amazing, wonderful AND fantastic news. And just one - or maybe three - more reason(s) to get your asses in gear and SIGN UP NOW for Jonifest 2003 - the more, the merrier! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 20:09:49 -0400 From: "Suze Cameron" Subject: Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs Martin, Stryngs and Chris, What exciting news! Please be sure to bring extra CDs to sell, as I know folks will be interested in purchasing them once having the experience of hearing you live. I, for one, can't wait to hear you again. Take care and thanks for the great news! Suze ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 19:29:45 -0700 (PDT) From: hell Subject: Re: NJC Jonifest & Stryngs Chris wrote: > Secondly, THE BAND IS COMING! Martin (Giles) was thinking > about it this week, and between us we encouraged Strings > to come too (didn't take much work, in truth). I am just > TOO EXCITED for words about this. Oh, great big bloody, buggery bollocks! Stop giving me more reasons to change my mind about coming to Jonifest, damn it! I can't afford it, and trying to entice me with this sort of thing, is just not playing fair! Seriously, for anyone still undecided about going to Jonifest, this is definitely another great incentive! Hell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 00:08:19 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Transcription error in Joni tune In a message dated 4/26/03 11:11:56 PM, KJHSF writes: << << I thought it might be of interest to others who might want to learn this song. Has anyone else noticed this error? >> Yes. And in addition, there are some serious errors in the transcription of Let the Wind Carry Me, and though I don't have access to my sheet music right now, I recall an error in the Chord figures for guitar on the TI music of Sex Kills. >> Hey; thanks for that info....I guess you can't always believe what you read, even on sheet music. The real proof, after all, is in the playing... if it doesn't sound right, there must be something wrong. Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 02:14:54 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: April 28 1967: Joni and Chuck Mitchell perform at Club 47 in Cambridge, Massachusetts. 1972: Joni performed in Cleveland, taking part in a fund-raising event for George McGovern's Presidential campaign, arranged by Warren Beatty. Paul Simon, James Taylor, and Joni were the main attractions. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=809 1991: Music channel VH-1 aired a "VH-1 to 1" special called "NIGHT RIDE HOME" that was a full half hour of interview, video bits, and teasingly short peeks of Joni playing the instrumental part of "Cherokee Louise." - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #263 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)