From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #241 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, April 14 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 241 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: timeline on Ameican Masters/pgs.org website [Richard Goldman ] Re: NAMBLA & Joni being influenced by Native American spirituality [col] Re: kittys njc [colin ] Re: sexual awareness NJC [colin ] byt 1970 ["chuty001" ] Rummy Co (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Re:NAMBLA & Joni being influenced by Nati njc spirituality ["mack w] Re: sorrow and affectation njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC [] RE: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC ["theodore" ] RE: kittys njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: sexual awareness NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: sorrow and affectation njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: suburbs [Randy Remote ] RE: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC [] Re: Rummy Co (NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni being influenced by Native American spirituality [SoulQuest7@aol] Re: suburbs [Catherine McKay ] Re: Re:Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC [Catherine McKay ] the burbs.... [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: Embedded njc [Michael Paz ] Re: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC ["] Re: re partl Joni/ part njc [Michael Paz ] Re: I's A Muggin' ["hell" ] Re: Desert Island Discs njc [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: I's A Muggin' [Catherine McKay ] Tape of Woman of Heart and Mind ["Susan" ] Re: Gertrude Stein of music SJC [Susan Guzzi ] Re: sorrow and affectation ["kerry" ] Re: Gertrude Stein of music SJC ["hell" ] Re: sorrow and affectation - NJC ["hell" ] RE: Gertrude Stein of music SJC ["theodore" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:17:21 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Re: timeline on Ameican Masters/pgs.org website The timeline is fabulous, thank you! I love that it goes up to 2008 and beyond ... ~Richard - --------- >The timeline, of which Deb Messling spoke is at: > >http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j.html > >If you were "there" a few weeks ago, you may have to delete all your >"cookies" or force your browser to "refresh". I think it's the same URL >that had just a couple of paragraphs until last week. > >To hit the Timeline directly, use this: > >http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j_timeline_flash.h >tml > >Holy cow. Messling was right about finding a gem on that timeline! Thanks, >Deb. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:21:22 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re:NAMBLA & Joni being influenced by Native American spirituality Firstly, I think I am going to have to return to "joni-only" because of this seemingly neverending NAMBLA thread. Secondly, I am surprised no one has mentioned the influence Native Amercian culture and spirituality has had on her. She has spoken of this on numerous occasions. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:30:09 -0700 From: Richard Goldman Subject: Limited edition re-release of Linda Thompson CD [NJC] Perhaps this has already been posted ... (I can't remember...) Someone sent me this link, I bought it, it's brilliant, I hadn't heard it before. I got it and love it. Linda's solo CD "One Clear Moment" from 1985, Rhino Records. Here's the link: http://www.rhinohandmade.com/browse/ProductLink.lasso?Number=7819 ~Richard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:42:49 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: Re: from the JMDL (njc) In a message dated 3/19/03 3:14:56 PM, cvickery@danielrealty.com writes: << and hoping you're doing well...... stay in touch with us, walt. you're missed!! >> Thanks, Cindy -- I was ripe and ready to get back on the horse (or in this case, the keyboard) when i got shingles on my left arm. Surely not! I thought -- I've already had them twice! But yes. Painful, but relatively harmless (like me, and Dave Letterman) -- and now they're 90% gone. So hopefully, I'll be back posting on the list like a madman again. big hugs! Walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:54:11 EDT From: BigWaltinSF@aol.com Subject: This one got by my internal spaminator...(njc, 6969) Hi, all, I've gotten fairly good at spotting spam regarding remortgaging and, um, personal enhancements, but this one got by me: The subject line was: Enough Lies About Iraq! The entire e-mail was: There are ways of changing the length of almost anything -- click here to learn more! New heights (lengths?) in shamelessness. Don't know weather to laugh or cry. Best to all, and promises that I'll write more soon, Walt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:04:08 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: this list and the moment and suburbs...NJC I am, daily, gladdened by the JMDL list. I love the talk of the suburbs.. I live in a town that is on a peninuslar and many of the old people here have never gone further than Southampton which is 18 miles away. It gets a bit "foreign" for them. the accent changes at Sarisbury green.... if you ask someone on our side of Sarisbury green what they eat for Christmas lunch they say Turk-ee with a glottal stop on the K so that it almost disappears. Get to the west of S G and it becomes Tur-KEY with a real burrr on the r sound. Gosport is Gosp-ort for those whose accent defines them as being here for longer than is safe or sane but west of here we are from GOS PORT with a soft T.... My neighbours are wonderfully wierd and wacky with my immediate neighbours boning up on being new age ......whilst buying a hot tub and two new harley davidsons....... and driving a huge engined car with the bumper stickers declaring they "walk the path of the ancient ones" and "the earth is our mother treat her with respect" .......and she bought him a gas fired BB gun replica of a Biretta hand gun for his birthday as he was a protection officer for the Sultan of Brunei at one point..... We have the Neighbourhood watch people, Janet and David who regularly comment on the rubbish skip state of my car and that my cat is getting bald and then there is mad Bridget who worries moans that everyone thinks she moans about moaning!!!! Add to that Old Joyce and her two ancient and very smelly dogs, and the man whose dog craps in the passageway next to my house and is regularly handed the mess in a bad to take with him!!! Oh it makes the day go with a swing!!! BUT THEN AT NIGHT....... From where I sit I can see that nights wings have nestled around the town. Small lights of other lives kindle behind the panes. Late walkers scurry to their homes against the summer rain. All is dark save for the lamp lit pavements. Small pools of amber shattered by uncareful feet and cursed for their wetness. The home-time drunks have shambled off Warmly congratulating the shadows for their constancy, Tottering on rubber legs towards disagreement or a lonely slumber. And I? I am in my eyrie Lit by the screen of my computer a pale siver moon of a face who awaits, with softly pounding heart, the shading of night into day. and that is my feelings about being in this town...... it breathes, as do we all, behind the panes, behind the curtains, behind our hands and behind the times!!! Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:02:32 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni being influenced by Native American spirituality In a message dated 4/14/2003 1:22:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Aerchak@aol.com writes: > << mentioned the influence Native Amercian culture and spirituality has had on > her. She has spoken of this on numerous occasions>>> Joseph Campbell spent a long time studying Native American Indian spirituality and history. Did Joni ever mention any books or authors of Native Americans that she was influenced by? Did I hear her say she was very influenced by Carlos Castenada, or am I confusing this with someone else? =-== om--- Nick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:25:02 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: sorrow and affectation no. i say sorrow with a short o not a long one as in sore. It's your accent ;-) Little Bird wrote: >Doesn't everyone pronounce "Sorrow" as "sore-oh?" I >can't think of any other pronunciation of that >particular word. It's not Canadian, it's just plain >english.... right? > >-AN-DROO >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more >http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:26:12 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NAMBLA & Joni being influenced by Native American spirituality Aerchak@aol.com wrote: >Firstly, I think I am going to have to return to "joni-only" because of this >seemingly neverending NAMBLA thread. > oh we wouldn't want that would we? hey guys we had better stop. > Secondly, I am surprised no one has >mentioned the influence Native Amercian culture and spirituality has had on >her. She has spoken of this on numerous occasions. > >Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:27:37 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: kittys njc ron wrote: >hi > come clean & tell my neighbour > not convinced is for real but I'llplay: come clean. And piitn out that their bird should not have out. better still tell them how mean it is to keep a caged bird in the first place..... Cats are cats and cats catch birds and eat them. > remove the feathers and say nothing > return the feathers and claim the reward .... > >ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:30:02 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: sexual awareness NJC >Interesting, Wally. What you've written validates a certain stereotype >that "Latin" people are more sexual, more horny. > I had never heard that. Maybe I can blame mine on being half Latin too1 Mind oyu, I ahev to say, I am not so interested in sex anymore. I'd rather knit..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:53:59 -0400 From: "chuty001" Subject: byt 1970 I've posted a clip of BYT isle 1970 on my site if your interested. It's in WMV format zipped. Enjoy http://www.geocities.com/dreamflattires/JoniBYT1970.zip Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:54:27 -0700 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Rummy Co (NJC) This is very funny - works best with a high speed connection: http://www.motherjones.com/humor/fiore/2003/16/we_355_01.html Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:00:25 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Re:NAMBLA & Joni being influenced by Nati njc spirituality That's why there is a delete key Andrea and a subject line. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:09:55 -0500 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: sorrow and affectation njc Andrew asked? > >Doesn't everyone pronounce "Sorrow" as "sore-oh?" I > >can't think of any other pronunciation of that > >particular word. It's not Canadian, it's just plain > >english.... right? > > Like Jimmy said, down south, Texas with me, it is sah-row. We say borrow the same way, bah-row. Do those who say sorrow accentuating the sore also say bore with the borrow? or to-more-ow? mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:11:06 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re:Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC I agree too, and the sad thing is that I am 23 and guys my age are supposed to be jumping from guy to guy, yet all i really want is a boyfriend. Fooling around with a guy once every 6 months is fine, but it never really satisfies me. I flirt from feeling empowered one day to helpless and hopeless the next because I know that the large percentage of guys my age just want sex or a hookup, and those who want a boyfriend are usually never my type. I realize, one day it shall come, but I am tired of waiting. I see people who are shallow, unintersting, even stupid living in great relationships and I wonder, what is wrong with me. Fortunately, I discovered that it isnt me, it is DElaware.. I am just not magnetic to anyone here, so I will get the hell out and move on. Enough of my self-deprecation! I feel better now. BLair :) > >those of you who know me well are laughing, because *of course* >i'd delurk long enough to talk about sex, BUT - > >chris wrote: ><be in bed with someone at all, if all it's about is an >orgasm. Even several orgasms! > >Or perhaps I'm thinking too hard about this?>> > >and i respond: >no no no, chris, i think you've absolutely got it. >i've long thought that sex with someone that i don't care for a >*great deal* (though who's to say what constitutes *enough*, >right?) is just excrutiatingly complicated masturbation. seems >to me that meaningless sex (the highly touted "zipless fuck") is >just another symptom of our short attention spans and of our >great greed as human animals to consume. more, just because >there's more of it, isn't always better. > >the best sex isn't even half about genitals, anyhow, now is it? > >cindy > >(but - just for the record - i'm as greedy as the next fool >sometimes, despite myself. dammit.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:13:26 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni being influenced by Native American spirituality The song "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" clearly refers to Don Juan of the Castaneda books, as well to Don Juan the romantic rogue. At 05:02 PM 4/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: > Did I hear her say she was >very influenced by Carlos Castenada, or am I confusing this with someone >else? =-== om--- Nick - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:18:07 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Desert Island Discs njc I wrote << I was listening to David Gilmour on Desert Island Discs this morning. >> And Kenny asked: << I've heard of this before but don't know if we get it in NYC area; where's it from and when is it broadcast? >> It's a BBC programme, Kenny, so you'd have to have a very strong radio to pick it up in NYC! However, you may well be able to listen to archived programmes on the website, which is www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 Azeem in London NP: The Roches' debut album - I've had this for AGES and I realised this evening that I'd never actually listened to it - I feel ASHAMED! It's absolutely wonderful, full of glorious harmonies and delightfully daffy lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:31:50 -0400 From: Subject: suburbs I'm pretty sure "Pleasant Valley Sunday" was a Carole King/Gerry Goffin tune. After that came "Subdivisions" (Rush). Before it was that Pete Seeger ditty about "they're all made of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same." I suppose Annie Ross predated that...... with "Centerpiece" of course, which brings us full-circle. Lama BTW, no one's ever said I'm one of the girls, luckily for them. Ironically, if they said that as a mechanic I "take after" my father it would be an insult though. He never so much as changed plugs his whole life. On the other hand, if someone said that I "learned something about composition" from my mother, that would be a compliment. Almost all of the women in my family were art teachers or models. Dad kept to himself except for the time he inherited a 100 year old drop leaf table. He went right down to Sears and bought an electric sander so he could "restore" it by destroying every bit of patina and character in it. I give him points for thoroughness. I learned to ask advice from as many people as possible before doing something "brave" with a collectible. BTW, one of my mother's paintings is coated with a rich, thick layer of tar and nicotine. I can take that right down with diluted Simple Green and a household sponge, right? NOT! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:59:41 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC Blair Fraipont wrote: > I see people who are shallow, unintersting, even stupid living in > great relationships seems strange-you'd think stupid, shallow uninteresting people wouldn't be in a relationship, let alone a great one..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:04:41 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC It helps we call in the reinforcements when we need to scratch the surface, deep down inside I am very superficial - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of colin Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 4:00 PM To: Blair Fraipont Cc: cvickery@danielrealty.com; chris@secure-si.co.uk; joni@smoe.org; lulu.hone@virgin.net Subject: Re: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC Blair Fraipont wrote: > I see people who are shallow, unintersting, even stupid living in > great relationships seems strange-you'd think stupid, shallow uninteresting people wouldn't be in a relationship, let alone a great one..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:11:16 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Re: Re:Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH Blair..... that is sooooo sad..... may I just say that you are not alone. I am a 46 year old hetero female who is not ugly but would love to once again have that feeling that my weekends were shared, that I was waiting for someone who loved me to walk through the door and enfold me in his arms..... My current object of affection is being very circumspect in these areas despite acknowledging that there is no one else he would rather be with than me....... How fucking wierd is that... Blair you are loved, even if only here on the list with any regularity... Hugs to you Lucy Blairs post is below - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blair Fraipont" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 11:11 PM Subject: Re:Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC . I flirt from feeling empowered one day to > helpless and hopeless the next because I know that the large percentage of > guys my age just want sex or a hookup, and those who want a boyfriend are > usually never my type. I realize, one day it shall come, but I am tired of > waiting. I see people who are shallow, unintersting, even stupid living in > great relationships and I wonder, what is wrong with me. Fortunately, I > discovered that it isnt me, it is DElaware.. I am just not magnetic to > anyone here, so I will get the hell out and move on. > Enough of my self-deprecation! I feel better now. > BLair :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:12:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: sorrow and affectation --- twoshoes@sasktel.net wrote: > > From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" > > s-oh-rr-oh. Now THAT'S sad. > > It IS sad. When she sings this word at the end of > Little Green (on Blue), it > breaks my heart for her. I know she is talking about > herself and her own > loss, and it's exactly because she sings it the way > she does that I am sure > of this. Talk about heartfelt. > > This is no affectation on Joni's part. SORE-OH is > how we pronounce it in > Sask. And that's how it sounds to me when she sings > it, though she draws it > out. > To me, Americans *all* sound like they say "sarrow" (or maybe it's "sah-row.") But then again, the Americans nearest Toronto are from western New York, y'know, towns like Rachester and Tanawanda, so maybe it's just them. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:20:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: kittys njc --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > ron! what a dilemma! i'll use it as an essay topic > with my harvard MBA > candidates. > wally That's for sure! I wouldn't want to be in your shoes, Ron. Wow - I wonder if your neighbours might like a cat? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:26:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: sexual awareness NJC i don't know about the stereotype. i've found that it is more a matter of *cultural variables*. i've had a lot more *fun* in new york than in italy for example. every culture seems to foster or repress different drives, and this phenomenon may be related to what each culture fears or aspires to. it is sort of complicated. i should think that *horniness* is inversely proportional to repression. latin people are not necessarily hornier but it is possible that they are less self-repressed. buenos aires is very *european*. there's zero native american presence. the population is mostly italian, german, english, french and spanish. the european thing makes for a lot more permissiveness (or decadence), i believe. we have other taboos. to give an example, the clinton-lewinski scandal could never have received the amount of media exposure it got in the us if it had happened here. adults do protect children from sexual or any other kind of abusers. parents are just as responsible as are those anywhere else. there's also a marked divergence of points views between people in buenos aires and people in the provinces, where the catholic church and the hispanic culture have a stronger hold. stuff that a porteqo (a BA native) would simply shrug off would scandalize or horrify a person form the northeast or from other south american countries. in fact, i have constantly to remind myself that many comments i make in the presence of people from other backgrounds (most recently in boston -- and i even consulted bob murphy on this) may shock or upset them. and then *latin* is such a wide category. you have the french, italian, spanish, portuguese, rumanian, mexican, central american, caribbean, south american and so forth to consider. this issue is so utterly engaging and i wish i could discuss it in a better informed and more eloquent manner. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: Lori Fye [mailto:lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com] Enviado el: Lunes, 14 de Abril de 2003 03:45 p.m. Para: Wally Kairuz; colin; jmdl Asunto: Re: sexual awareness NJC > maybe it's a cultural thing. we were very open about sex at home, > despite our RC background. my family is italian-lebanese. maybe > people from those places are more precocious or become aware of their > sexuality earlier in life. i know people that became aware of their > sexual needs much later in life. Interesting, Wally. What you've written validates a certain stereotype that "Latin" people are more sexual, more horny. What is the attitude in Argentina about adults and children having sex? Curious, Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:26:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: sorrow and affectation njc --- mack watson-bush Do those who say sorrow > accentuating the sore also > say bore with the borrow? or to-more-ow? > Well, yeah, how else would you say it? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:33:39 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: suburbs jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > BTW, one of my mother's paintings is coated with a rich, thick layer of tar and nicotine. I can take that right down with diluted Simple Green and a household sponge, right? Or you can take it to any car mechanic that has a steam-cleaner. If it'll take gunk off an engine, yer pitcher shouldn't be any problem. Another helpful hint ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:38:37 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC You never know, I used to think I was so damn smart. Look, the girls that people told me were dumb, they were the smart ones. You look at these people and you say, they are so dumb, they have you fooled, you just don't understand their logic, their humor, so they seem stupid and uninteresting. You've a lot to discover yet. I avoided these girls I deemed not my type for years, too shallow, superficial, dumb blonde, I was wrong, I get along great with these people. I spent years with these deep, intellectual, people I shared interests with, what a drag. The shy ones, all have skeletons in their closets, don't be taken in by these people that opt out because of shyness. They are just afraid of what might fall out when they open their mouths. These guys you think don't want boyfriends will be the first to propose, he who fucks nuns will later join the church, the harder they come the harder they fall, one and all. Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Blair Fraipont Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 3:11 PM To: cvickery@danielrealty.com; chris@secure-si.co.uk; joni@smoe.org; lulu.hone@virgin.net Subject: Re:Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC I agree too, and the sad thing is that I am 23 and guys my age are supposed to be jumping from guy to guy, yet all i really want is a boyfriend. Fooling around with a guy once every 6 months is fine, but it never really satisfies me. I flirt from feeling empowered one day to helpless and hopeless the next because I know that the large percentage of guys my age just want sex or a hookup, and those who want a boyfriend are usually never my type. I realize, one day it shall come, but I am tired of waiting. I see people who are shallow, unintersting, even stupid living in great relationships and I wonder, what is wrong with me. Fortunately, I discovered that it isnt me, it is DElaware.. I am just not magnetic to anyone here, so I will get the hell out and move on. Enough of my self-deprecation! I feel better now. BLair :) > >those of you who know me well are laughing, because *of course* >i'd delurk long enough to talk about sex, BUT - > >chris wrote: ><be in bed with someone at all, if all it's about is an >orgasm. Even several orgasms! > >Or perhaps I'm thinking too hard about this?>> > >and i respond: >no no no, chris, i think you've absolutely got it. >i've long thought that sex with someone that i don't care for a >*great deal* (though who's to say what constitutes *enough*, >right?) is just excrutiatingly complicated masturbation. seems >to me that meaningless sex (the highly touted "zipless fuck") is >just another symptom of our short attention spans and of our >great greed as human animals to consume. more, just because >there's more of it, isn't always better. > >the best sex isn't even half about genitals, anyhow, now is it? > >cindy > >(but - just for the record - i'm as greedy as the next fool >sometimes, despite myself. dammit.) _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:12:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Rummy Co (NJC) --- Lori Fye wrote: > This is very funny - works best with a high speed > connection: > > http://www.motherjones.com/humor/fiore/2003/16/we_355_01.html > > Lori Very funny. Now whatever happened to that guy with the vase? Is he at it again? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:19:00 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni being influenced by Native American spirituality In a message dated 4/14/2003 3:21:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, messling@enter.net writes: > < Castaneda books, as well to Don Juan the romantic rogue.>>> > Very interesting. I noticed that Peter Gabriel gaver her the Billboard Century Award and introduced her. Perhaps Joni's percussion segments on "Don Juan" LP influenced him to do his percussion-drenched song "Rhythm of the Heat" which was lyrically influenced by Carl Jung. This is very fascinating. - -=- om-=-= Nick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:24:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: suburbs --- jlamadoo@fuse.net wrote: > I'm pretty sure "Pleasant Valley Sunday" was a > Carole King/Gerry Goffin tune. After that came > "Subdivisions" (Rush). Before it was that Pete > Seeger ditty about > "they're all made of ticky-tacky > and they all look just the same." ... written by Malvina Reynolds (sp?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:29:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Re:Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC Sometimes I wonder whether it isn't just a case of wanting what you don't have? If you're in a relationship, you want out; if you don't have one, you want one. Maybe it's just me. I love my lovin', but not like I love my freedom? I get your point(s). I love ya too, Blair. You too Lucy. Too bad we're not each other's type! but ain't that always the way? I love the header, by the way: "Why Delaware sucks". I'm not sure who started that one, but I don't feel like changing it, even though it has nothing to do with current discussion! --- Lucy Hone wrote: > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH Blair..... that is > sooooo sad..... may I just > say that you are not alone. I am a 46 year old > hetero female who is not ugly > but would love to once again have that feeling that > my weekends were shared, > that I was waiting for someone who loved me to walk > through the door and > enfold me in his arms..... My current object of > affection is being very > circumspect in these areas despite acknowledging > that there is no one else > he would rather be with than me....... How fucking > wierd is that... > > Blair you are loved, even if only here on the list > with any regularity... > Hugs to you > Lucy > > Blairs post is below > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Blair Fraipont" > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 11:11 PM > Subject: Re:Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless > s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) > NJC > > > . I flirt from feeling empowered one day to > > helpless and hopeless the next because I know that > the large percentage of > > guys my age just want sex or a hookup, and those > who want a boyfriend are > > usually never my type. I realize, one day it shall > come, but I am tired of > > waiting. I see people who are shallow, > unintersting, even stupid living in > > great relationships and I wonder, what is wrong > with me. Fortunately, I > > discovered that it isnt me, it is DElaware.. I am > just not magnetic to > > anyone here, so I will get the hell out and move > on. > > Enough of my self-deprecation! I feel better > now. > > BLair :) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:34:11 -0400 From: "T Taitt" Subject: Girlz Doin' Girlz - Thu Apr 17 Hey everyone, Just wanted let those of you who don't know (and remind those of you who do) about Girlz Doin' Girlz, the tribute to Canadian female singer-songwriters taking place this Thursday, April 17, at Clinton's in Toronto. The show starts at 8:30 and runs until midnight, and features ten of Toronto's up-and-coming indie female musicians performing the songs of Canadian women who've inspired them and legions of fans. Acts performing include Lindi, Kathryn Rose and Likewater. Artists whose work is being performed include Joni Mitchell, Sarah McLachlan, Jane Siberry and Sarah Harmer. Doors open at 8 and cover is $8. Should be a lovely show (and there's no work the next day!) so check it out. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:50:17 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: the burbs.... I remember when Joni's Hissing album was released .....I had a backyard and a swimming pool......now I live where the bottles break and the neighbor's music keeps me up at night....I stole that from John Gorka...hell... I've got a whore that lives below me and Luca ;~( NP: Dylan : Just Like A Woman In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:54:38 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Embedded njc LMAO!! OHMYGAWD! Please not the fecking chiggers. Next PazFest we are gonna put you in a body condom with Avon's Skin SO Soft (SSS the best defense against chiggers and noseeums) caus eI am not taking you back to the infirmary whilst the party went on without us. Paz > Pez/Paz wrote: > >> Brings a hole new meaning to "embedded journalist". > > I'm so sick of hearing that term! Everytime I hear "embedded" it makes me > think of those embedded chiggers in my flesh at PazFest ;-) > > Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:55:28 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Why Delaware Sucks! (was Meaningless s3x) (Was RE: i as a boy) NJC EXACTLY! I mean, they aren't supposed to have love in their lives!! They need to be working in sweatshops to make up for their stupidity. Thanks for catching me on that one.. I confess I went a bit overboard. I tend to do that from time to time. Blair (who really isn't that smart either :) NP: Alice Coltrane > > >Blair Fraipont wrote: > >> I see people who are shallow, unintersting, even stupid living in great >>relationships > >seems strange-you'd think stupid, shallow uninteresting people wouldn't be >in a relationship, let alone a great one..... > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:59:52 -0700 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: re partl Joni/ part njc Hi Cul! Good work converting, but did she BUY any Joni yet ( a true sign you have assimilated someone into the Joni Borg)??? Also my fave T-Shirt of all time A Pic of the Kix (cereal) rabbit-Caption-Silly Faggot, Dicks are for Chicks! Saw it on a person on Bourbon street during a Mardi Gras and I just freaked. Best Paz > > Suddenly her website is full of ravings about this "new discovery" she > has made that Joni Mitchell is a "goddess" etc... You know, all the > things we have all said about Joni at one time or another. > > favorite T shirt: Nuke A Faggot Whale For Jesus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:36:16 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: I's A Muggin' Bob wrote: > Darn you to heck, Hell! I just "discovered" the same thing last week, but > hadn't written about it! But my source for the photo was the Sue Mingus book > about Charles. (I think it's called "Every Night at Noon.") HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!!!!! Nyah, nyah, nyah-nyah, nyah! Now that I've gotten that out of my system....... ;o) I find it interesting that Joni used this method, because it may mean she uses it quite frequently in developing her art-work/paintings. I always assumed she took photographs herself, and worked from those - meaning that she was "composing" the picture when she took it. But this one was obviously not taken by her (since she's in it) - I assume it was taken by Sue Mingus? I've done a couple of pictures/drawings using this method, ie. working from a photograph, but I always felt it to be a little "plagiaristic" if I didn't take the picture myself. Especially since I consider (as I assume most people do) that photography is an art-form in itself. I guess if she had the permission of the photographer it's OK, but where would you draw the line? I know they're entirely different mediums, and the end results are quite different, but the painting is definitely derived directly from that photograph. Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:58:09 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: Desert Island Discs njc In a message dated 4/14/03 6:18:07 PM, AzeemAK writes: << I was listening to David Gilmour on Desert Island Discs this morning. >> And Kenny asked: << I've heard of this before but don't know if we get it in NYC area; where's it from and when is it broadcast? >> It's a BBC programme, Kenny, so you'd have to have a very strong radio to pick it up in NYC! However, you may well be able to listen to archived programmes on the website, which is www.bbc.co.uk/radio4 >> Hey, Azeem; Thanks for that information. I'll have to check out those archives sometime. Looks like NYC doesn't have EVERYTHING, after all. ;-) Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:12:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: I's A Muggin' --- hell wrote: > I find it interesting that Joni used this method, > because it may mean she > uses it quite frequently in developing her > art-work/paintings. I always > assumed she took photographs herself, and worked > from those - meaning that > she was "composing" the picture when she took it. > But this one was > obviously not taken by her (since she's in it) - I > assume it was taken by > Sue Mingus? Well, she COULD have taken it herself if she used a camera on a tripod and a timer and all that, but I suspect she didn't. And she is in a lot of her own paintings, so I'd guess someone else took the photos. > I've done a couple of pictures/drawings using this > method, ie. working from > a photograph, but I always felt it to be a little > "plagiaristic" if I didn't > take the picture myself. Especially since I > consider (as I assume most > people do) that photography is an art-form in > itself. I guess if she had > the permission of the photographer it's OK, but > where would you draw the > line? I know they're entirely different mediums, > and the end results are > quite different, but the painting is definitely > derived directly from that > photograph. My ex used to do this too. Still does. If you're painting people, who can afford to hire a model; and who that you're not paying would want to sit still for so long? Even landscapes change, because as the day goes by, the angle of the light and the shadows moves around; and it's never the same the next day either. I agree, if you use your own photos, that's not a problem and who could argue with it? It does get very dicy if you use someone else's photo - you could get sued! Especially if it's a famous photo, definitely a no-no. My ex used to do illustrations for a column in the Toronto Sun (that rag) called Max Haines Crime Flashback. He used photos from the photo morgue and he would often use photos of famous people. His boss used to get so mad if it looked too much like someone famous, so he'd try to make it look different by changing the hair or something. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:19:17 -0500 From: "Susan" Subject: Tape of Woman of Heart and Mind My husband caught this new documentary and loved it. I, on vacation, missed it. Does anyone know where I might get a DVD or a tape of it? I've tried searching on the internet to no avail. Thanks! Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:19:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Gertrude Stein of music SJC Hi Kate, Nice post, I couldn't agree with you more here. - --- twoshoes@sasktel.net wrote: > Mmm hmmm. Confidence in a woman is often construed as arrogance. Confidence > in a man is simply expected. > > There was talk of the few women in Joni's life, how she likes to be one of > the boys. This could be an unconscious aligning with the sex that is seen as > more powerful, more highly regarded, etc., and is quite common. > I agree, I have met several women in my life who brag proudly about this being the case. To each his or her own but it always makes me a bit sad and a bit insulted. On the other hand I also think how fortunate I am to have the alliances with women that i do and feel for her not to be able to connect with her sisters as I do. Kate wrote: > For a woman to be 'one of the boys' and admired and respected by them is/was > considered (especially in Joni's generation, though this wouldn't always be > a conscious attitude) a step up on the rung of social position. Boys are > still commonly insulted by being called a 'girl.' But it doesn't work the > other way around. Here is my only slight disagreement Kate. When I was growing up into the dyke I am, my mother often told me I acted like a boy, as to insult me. I was considered to be - and I hate this word as I find it moot - a tomboy. My bone of contention with this word, no pun intended, is this: If a tomboy is a girl who acts like a boy, yet a significant number, if not a majority of women say they were this ... than does that not mean they were just girls acting like little girls? Hence the word is meaningless. Regardless it was used as an insult against me and often. > Kate wrote: > Exceptions abound, of course. But this is what I think every time I see Joni > seeming to be proud to be 'one of the boys.' No offence fellas, but that > should not be a compliment to any woman. > I agree, I wish Joni had more girlfriends and respected them as much. JONI! Come out to Jonifest and play with us girls for a weekend! Seems her best and one of Joni's only girlfriends in music was Cass Elliot, not such a bad choice, but it makes me wonder if Cass was the same as Joni or just an exception to Joni's taste. Kate asked: > Have you ever heard of a man who bragged about being 'one of the girls'? > > I haven't. Only Ted. > http://xoetc.antville.org > Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? I love Anais Nin! One of my top fave writers of all time! Peace, Susan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:30:37 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: sorrow and affectation Since spending lots of time with Hell, I've realized that you can't just refer to short or long vowels between people with different accents. It's also virtually impossible to write words (as you say them) phonetically, because they would be pronounced in different ways depending on who's speaking. Also the "o" in sorrow is an "r-controlled" vowel, so it's different than a short "o." Okay, I'll stop now! (I deal with this every day at work, so it's hard to turn off!) Kerry > no. i say sorrow with a short o not a long one as in sore. It's your > accent ;-) > > Little Bird wrote: > > >Doesn't everyone pronounce "Sorrow" as "sore-oh?" I > >can't think of any other pronunciation of that > >particular word. It's not Canadian, it's just plain > >english.... right? > > > >-AN-DROO > >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > >http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:52:19 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Gertrude Stein of music SJC Susan wrote: > I agree, I wish Joni had more girlfriends and respected them as much. JONI! Come out to Jonifest > and play with us girls for a weekend! If Joni was going to Jonifest, I'd sell everything I own to be there! > Seems her best and one of Joni's only girlfriends in music was Cass Elliot, not such a bad choice, > but it makes me wonder if Cass was the same as Joni or just an exception to Joni's taste. I think Cass was an exception to the "norm" of the time, but probably similar to Joni in her attitude to the music business. In a video documentary I have, Denny Doherty relates drinking boiler-makers under a table in a bar with Cass, and describes her as "a woman after my own heart...." which I took to mean she was "one of the boys". In that regard, maybe Joni viewed her as being like herself - trying to make it as a serious artist in a man's world. CSN were also good friends of Cass, which also makes me think she socialised with "the boys" more than with women. On that subject (or slightly off-subject, maybe!) John Phillips admitted he initially didn't want Cass in The Mamas and Papas because she didn't fit his "image" of what the group should look like, regardless of how well she sang. Eventually good sense prevailed, because she certainly had an incredible voice. On the same video, another person associated with The Mamas and Papas (I forget his name for the moment - Jon something!) said how "smart" it was for John to put Michelle out the front because she was so pretty - no mention of her musical ability. If that was the prevailing attitude of the time, it doesn't surprise me that Joni preferred to be thought of as "one of the boys", therefore regarded on the same terms and by the same merits, as opposed to just "a pretty girl who could sing". Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:58:56 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: sorrow and affectation - NJC Kerry wrote: > Since spending lots of time with Hell, I've realized that you can't just > refer to short or long vowels between people with different accents. It's > also virtually impossible to write words (as you say them) phonetically, > because they would be pronounced in different ways depending on who's > speaking. Also the "o" in sorrow is an "r-controlled" vowel, so it's > different than a short "o." Okay, I'll stop now! (I deal with this every > day at work, so it's hard to turn off!) Yeah, and she's FOREVER correcting me (just kidding)! I speak the England goodly, but! We have had some interesting attempts at trying different accents, but the New Zealand accent is regarded as one of the hardest in the world to imitate. Australian as well, although it's a little easier than the NZ. I won't mention "someone's" attempts at Jonifest 2001, to repeat a certain phrase about a dog-like Australian mammal and their dietary habits with regards to infants of human extraction..... Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:02:05 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Gertrude Stein of music SJC Well I have to admit I'd rather be one the gals, than one of the good ole boys or something like that. I just like to connect with the sisters, and these days, the mothers, too. And I'll trade you Hemingway for Gertrude, any day. Well if you need something to brag about you can say I let you hang with me online. Sista Theodora (I'm in touch with my feminine parts) "well there's some things you can't cover up with lipstick and powder, I heard you mention my name can't you talk any louder? are you gonna say the words I wanna hear? I suppose I'll just have to play it by ear, I just wanna hear girl's talk." Nick Lowe - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Susan Guzzi Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:20 PM To: twoshoes@sasktel.net Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Gertrude Stein of music SJC Hi Kate, Nice post, I couldn't agree with you more here. - --- twoshoes@sasktel.net wrote: > Mmm hmmm. Confidence in a woman is often construed as arrogance. Confidence > in a man is simply expected. > > There was talk of the few women in Joni's life, how she likes to be one of > the boys. This could be an unconscious aligning with the sex that is seen as > more powerful, more highly regarded, etc., and is quite common. > I agree, I have met several women in my life who brag proudly about this being the case. To each his or her own but it always makes me a bit sad and a bit insulted. On the other hand I also think how fortunate I am to have the alliances with women that i do and feel for her not to be able to connect with her sisters as I do. Kate wrote: > For a woman to be 'one of the boys' and admired and respected by them is/was > considered (especially in Joni's generation, though this wouldn't always be > a conscious attitude) a step up on the rung of social position. Boys are > still commonly insulted by being called a 'girl.' But it doesn't work the > other way around. Here is my only slight disagreement Kate. When I was growing up into the dyke I am, my mother often told me I acted like a boy, as to insult me. I was considered to be - and I hate this word as I find it moot - a tomboy. My bone of contention with this word, no pun intended, is this: If a tomboy is a girl who acts like a boy, yet a significant number, if not a majority of women say they were this ... than does that not mean they were just girls acting like little girls? Hence the word is meaningless. Regardless it was used as an insult against me and often. > Kate wrote: > Exceptions abound, of course. But this is what I think every time I see Joni > seeming to be proud to be 'one of the boys.' No offence fellas, but that > should not be a compliment to any woman. > I agree, I wish Joni had more girlfriends and respected them as much. JONI! Come out to Jonifest and play with us girls for a weekend! Seems her best and one of Joni's only girlfriends in music was Cass Elliot, not such a bad choice, but it makes me wonder if Cass was the same as Joni or just an exception to Joni's taste. Kate asked: > Have you ever heard of a man who bragged about being 'one of the girls'? > > I haven't. Only Ted. > http://xoetc.antville.org > Who does she think she is, Anaos Nin? I love Anais Nin! One of my top fave writers of all time! Peace, Susan The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #241 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)