From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #238 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Sunday, April 13 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 238 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) [KJHSF@aol.com] weird joni pronunciation ["Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) ["Lama, Jim L'Hommed] Hissing of Summer Lawns... er NJC actually ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: nambla njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni and the young women folk ["Kate Bennett" ] mondogreens njc ["Kate Bennett" ] joni connections ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: men and boys... NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Blue Tapestry - Nettlebed (NJC) [Chris Marshall ] Re: The hissing njc JMDL Digest V2003 #232 ["Eryl B Davies" ] Re: men and boys... NJC [Catherine McKay ] spirituality & Joni [SoulQuest7@aol.com] RE: spirituality & Joni ["Victor Johnson" ] John Guerin, WAS: Re: Joni on American Masters ... [Deb Messling ] Re: Suburbia now njc [FMYFL@aol.com] blame Robin Williams NJC [colin ] Joni convert [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: Re: re exxon blue [hell ] Re: spirituality & Joni [Randy Remote ] Re: blame Robin Williams NJC [Janet Hess ] Re: Suburbia now/Swingers club NJC ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #127 [PassScribe@aol.com] Re: spirituality & Joni [SoulQuest7@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:11:45 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:02:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: > and never knew all about the Italians and > probably never even *heard* of Robert Hayes, I bet!! Just little green-eyed > > monsters running around the JMDL.........I know it! > I wasn't going to admit this publicly, but now I have to speak up. Not only did I hear the Robert Hayes line, I also heard the Italian line, too. Probably because my first crush was an Italian dude who came home from work with a briefcase full of papers each night, so that was what was in my psyche. As far as Robert Hayes is concerned, well...I have no idea who, what or if he exists. I guess I assumed he was a lesser known Gable and Flynn era actor. Stop making fun of Ashara! Ken PS seems there's more Sunday list activity than normal. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:20:24 -0400 From: "Lama-Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: weird joni pronunciation To get all of the lyrics (as registered) to any of Joni's album tracks, go to: http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/ Scroll down, and click on the song title. http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/MyOldMan.cfm Viola. It's a labor of love, brought to you by Les Irvin of Denver, Colorado, USA and encouraged by the generous support of JMDL'ers like us. Lama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:36:37 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) Speaking of "a joyful mask", I'm thinking of Julianne Moore's character in "The Hours". When her husband is describing how he fell in love with her, the unbearable tension in her face is unforgettable. I've never seen the grisly intensity of depression brought alive so well. Thank God to be relived of that, at least for this moment...... Lama > Heard: "With a joyfulness" > Actual: "With a joyful mask" > From: The Hissing of Summer Lawns You mean to say it's not "joyfulness"? I always thought that whole line was "One love makes it easy with her joyfulness." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:53:18 +0100 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Hissing of Summer Lawns... er NJC actually EXCLUSIVE.... Summer Lawns was a Tupperware lady who got ousted from her position as Top sales lady for Bar Harbor, when the Amway corp rolled into town.. no longer could she hope to get the latest Westinghouse gas tumble drier because she was just THAT close to those valuable points.....as the Amway lady (her former best friend Amy Lou La Breese) took away all her clients. She watched her friends scuttle about trying to recruit more people for the pyramid and earn the money they had previously (in some Stepford wife way) handed to her. Gone were the coffee mornings, the coo-ing wonder as the latest Layzee Suzanne pickle turntable, cum picnic hamper was introduced to the immaculately coiffed and corsetted friends... Her whole social scene crumbled to dust and the dinner parties that didn't happen remained stored in colour co-ordinated "from fridge to microwave to table" boxes in her enormous walk in freezer (sales woman for New England 1971 prize).... And then one day Amy Lou La Breese called by to see her.. "Uh Summer?" she cooed from the wheel of her new drop top cadillac (Top sales lady of one wednesday afternoon a few weeks back prize) "you know you said that the plastic things you sold had a life time guarantee? ....Summer nodded with a sinking feeling in her (Miss Suzy tummy control panelled) stomach.... "Well I went to get our cornflakes out of the 5 litre maxi store container in pale blue with the co-ordinated lables......and they were not as crisp as they used to be.. I am therefore returning my entire purchase to you as they are clearly not of merchantable quality" ........and she nodded her head in that "always be closing the deal" way favoured by estate agents and sales reps. She continued..having got Summer to also nod her head in acquiescence..."Now we have that sorted.... can I interest you in our latest line? They are brightly coloured plastic boxes that keep things just as fresh as the day you bought them and they can go from dishwasher to freezer to microwave to table and they are so much better than any thing else that has ever been on the market.........." A witness to the murder of Amy Lou La Breese by Summer Lawns (who used an Amway "Kut it even if its diamonds" knife) related that she had been standing very close to Mrs Lawns during the rendezvous between the two woman. "Its funny you know, but Amy Lou turned up in her lovely new car, Summer came out of her house just up here.....and Amy started talking ....and all I could hear was this sound like a pressure cooker about to blow.. It just got louder and louder, a sort of hissing noise and then KAPOW.... and now there is blood all over my sweater but the SA80 will get that out!!!" And that my friends is how the album got its title..... Joni told me herself when she asked me round for an Amway party at her place .. 111 Acacia Avenue... Smallsville... Ah isn't the brain a wonderful thing!!! Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:54:15 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: re exxon blue Now me: And the blue-bloods in the boardroom? I didn't realize there was so much there. Shakespearian multiplicity, again and again. Ya know, she's not a bad story teller. For a girl, that is. Lama, who really should stop posting and get outside Mark had: By using Exxon & raditiation as descriptions of these colors, she may be alluding to the gas leaks and oil spills that she later talked about in 'Sex Kills'. cul had: > I always took exxon blue to mean "blue chip" hence the "corporate > idea" Bob Muller started: > Yes, the Exxon sign is red, white and blue. It's not really a unique > or weird > shade, so I've never known why Joni describes it as Exxon Blue. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:57:25 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) Delusional Ashara writes: << probably never even *heard* of Robert Hayes >> Wasn't he the lead in "Airplane," the movie which also featured Ethel in a cameo? What ever happened to him? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:11:10 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: hissing of the summer lawns (Mondegreened) (NJC) About Robert Hayes, I wrote: << Wasn't he the lead in "Airplane," the movie which also featured Ethel in a cameo? What ever happened to him? >> Sorry, the actor I was thinking of is Robert *Hays*, no 'e'. Here's what I found out about his acting roles by using the Joni in Fiction link to the Internet Movie Database: 1. Santa Trap, The (2002) (TV) .... Bill Emerson 2. "Bette" (2000) TV Series .... Roy (II) (2001) 3. Retrievers, The (2001) (TV) .... Tom Lowry 4. Alex in Wonder (2001) .... Dan 5. Dr. T & the Women (2000) .... Harlan ... aka Dr. T and the Women (2000) (Germany) (USA: alternative spelling) 6. Deadly Appearances (2000) (TV) .... Andy Boychuk ... aka Criminal Instincts: Deadly Appearances (2000) (TV) (USA: series title) 7. American Tail: The Mystery of the Night Monster, An (2000) (V) .... Reed Daley 8. Nightworld: 30 Years to Life (1998) (TV) .... Vincent Dawson ... aka 30 Years to Life (1998) (TV) (USA) 9. "Kelly Kelly" (1998) TV Series .... Doug Kelly 10. I'll Be Home for Christmas (1997) (TV) .... Michael 11. Christmas Every Day (1996) (TV) .... Henry Jackson 12. Unabomber: The True Story (1996) (TV) .... David Kaczynski ... aka Unabomber (1996) (TV) 13. Abduction, The (1996) (TV) .... Paul Olavsky 14. Homeward Bound II: Lost in San Francisco (1996) .... Bob Seaver 15. Cyber Bandits (1995) .... Morgan 16. Vanished (1995) (TV) .... John Taylor ... aka Danielle Steel's 'Vanished' (1995) (TV) 17. Deadly Invasion: The Killer Bee Nightmare (1995) (TV) .... Chad Ingram 18. "Iron Man" (1994) TV Series (voice) .... Iron Man (Anthony 'Tony' Stark) ... aka "Marvel Action Hour: Iron Man, The" (1994) (USA) 19. No Dessert Dad, Til You Mow the Lawn (1994) .... Ken Cochran 20. Raw Justice (1994) .... Mitch McCullum ... aka Good Cop, Bad Cop (1994) ... aka Skip-Tracer (1994) 21. Partners (1993) (TV) 22. Basic Values: Sex, Shock & Censorship in the 90's (1993) (TV) 23. "Cutters" (1993) TV Series .... Joe Polachek 24. Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey (1993) .... Bob Seaver 25. Hot Chocolate (1992) .... Eric Ferrier ... aka Amour et chocolat (1992) (France) 26. Fifty/Fifty (1992) .... Sam French ... aka 50-50 (1992) 27. Running Against Time (1990) (TV) .... David Rhodes 28. Honeymoon Academy (1990) .... Sean McDonald ... aka For Better or for Worse (1990) 29. "FM" (1989) TV Series .... Ted Costas 30. She's Having a Baby (1988) (uncredited) .... Cameo appearance 31. Murder by the Book (1987) (TV) .... D.H. 'Hank' Mercer/Biff Deegan ... aka Alter Ego (1987) (TV) 32. "Starman" (1986) TV Series .... Starman/Paul Forrester 33. Cat's Eye (1985) .... Johnny Norris (segment "The Ledge") ... aka Stephen King's Cat's Eye (1985) 34. Mister Roberts (1984) (TV) .... Lieutenant (jg) Doug Roberts 35. Scandalous (1984) .... Frank Swedlin 36. Touched (1983) .... Daniel 37. Trenchcoat (1983) .... Terry Leonard 38. Airplane II: The Sequel (1982) .... Ted Striker ... aka Flying High II (1982) 39. Fall of the House of Usher, The (1982) (TV) .... Jonathan Cresswell 40. Day the Bubble Burst, The (1982) (TV) .... Gregory Winslow 41. California Gold Rush (1981) (TV) .... Bret Harte 42. Utilities (1981) .... Bob Hunt 43. Take This Job and Shove It (1981) .... Frank Macklin 44. Girl, the Gold Watch & Everything, The (1980) (TV) .... Kirby Winter 45. Airplane! (1980) .... Ted Striker ... aka Flying High (1980) 46. "Angie" (1979) TV Series .... Brad Benson 47. Almost Heaven (1978) (TV) .... Dave Leland 48. "Young Pioneers, The" (1978) TV Series .... Dan Gray 49. Initiation of Sarah, The (1978) (TV) .... Scott Rafferty 50. Delta County, U.S.A. (1977) (TV) .... Bo 51. Young Pioneers' Christmas (1976) (TV) .... Dan Gray 52. Young Pioneers (1976) (TV) .... Dan Grey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:25:16 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: nambla njc don't know anything about this group other than what i have read here but it is my understanding that this org was started by the men part of the acronym, not the boy part which to me speaks volumes as to its motivations... >>I want to point out that there is some homophobia in all of this....if an organization of straight people wanted to change the age of consent to 14 for heterosexual relationships (and legal marriages), most people would object, but not with the degree of disgust and anger aimed at the gay pedophiles of NAMBLA.< i disagree, there is no such evidence of homophobia as no such straight org has been mentioned, nor do i know of one...so how can the reaction be compared? as for me, if there were such an org, i would exactly the same about it- that it was creepy...btw, a few here were just as vocal about a similar recent discussion concerning polanski... www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:25:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni and the young women folk shawn colvin is up there, imo...i don't know if joni ever has said anything about shawn but she contributed a teensy bit to shawn's fat city album (with klein producing) >In the modern genre Ricki Lee comes about the closest to the musical and emotional excellence of Joni. < www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:25:17 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: mondogreens njc >>Heard: "One that makes it easy" Actual: "Wonder makes it easy" From: The Hissing of Summer Lawns<< this reminds me of my friend who heard 'you make loving fun' as you make love in fun'- fleetwood mac www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:01:51 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: joni connections >Today we went up north to collect a bitch for Harvey to shag< to alleviate any misunderstandings, i just thought i'd point out to any newcomers that colin raises dogs... www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:01:52 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: men and boys... NJC > Children do go through the years of probably 9 to 14 > with growing awareness > of sexual feelings, I can remember my own pre > pubescent crushes and feelings > of nascent wonder at what my body felt at that time. > However the idea of SEX > was something nebulous and unformed. No real concept > at all of what that > would physically involve and this is the crux of the > matter. i'd like to add to that something that every parent is aware of which is the pushing of age inappropirate sexuality through the media...oftentimes young kids are imitating/trying on sexuality as they have seen portrayed (as something that is cool or stylish) rather than as something that is coming from inside them... www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:00:37 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Blue Tapestry - Nettlebed (NJC) On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 07:53 PM, Clive Brothers wrote: > Quite outstanding concert.The best versions of "This flight tonight" > and > "Woodstock" I've ever heard.Even better set than last year.The quality > of these musicians is unparalleled.We took non-Joni friends who were > absolutely thrilled by the experience.I can't praise Blue Tapestry > enough for such pure entertainment value. Damn damn damn, and damn. Not only could I not make a recent gig, but you're rubbing my nose in it now. Pah. > The good news is that they have just announced an extra gig on 7th > August at Nettlebed.Get down there if you haven't yet had a chance to > see them.It's an unforgettable night. Ummm, forgetting one thing: on August 7th, anyone that's anyone* will be en-route to JONIFEST 2003!!!! (* with an understanding bank manager, natch) - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 22:01:23 +0100 From: "Eryl B Davies" Subject: Re: The hissing njc JMDL Digest V2003 #232 kakki wrote: > "Grass is preferred" Typical of Americans. The Mediteranian style garden with gravel and succulents and other drought tolerant plants would need a lot less maintanance wnd would be more environmentally friendly. I wonder how much gas the lawnmowers and the water pumping stations use. and how much energy is used in the production of the weedkillers and fertilisers they need to keep these public statements of their comfortable lifestyles. In a few years' time when even Iraqi oil has become scarce and expensive . They will have galloping inflation caused by the increased energy cost to industry and distribution services, and many people will not be able to afford air conditioning in Summer or heating in Winter, they will wish they had conserved a bit of oil. The unfortunate thing about that scenario is that we will all be in a similar boat even though the rest of us are trying to keep the mother ship afloat as long as we can. Eryl ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 14:13:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: RE: Suburbia The suburbs are wonderful, so long as you realize that it's all a facade. It's great to have a nice lawn and pretty trim around the windows - it beats cold blue steel and concrete in my book. It's about pace more idealism more than it is about "better" types of people, though many suburbanites do consider themselves to be better than urbanites, and vice versa. If you're aware of the suburban superficiality, you can steer yourself through the yawning, tree-lined streets quite nicely and live to tell the tale. But I love that Joni spears that perfect suburban image and roasts it on her patio BBQ for everyone to see! By 1975 it was about time... - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:52:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: men and boys... NJC --- Kate Bennett wrote: > > > i'd like to add to that something that every parent > is aware of which is the > pushing of age inappropirate sexuality through the > media...oftentimes young > kids are imitating/trying on sexuality as they have > seen portrayed (as > something that is cool or stylish) rather than as > something that is coming > from inside them... ...as the horrible story of Jon Benet watsername points out. I was walking with my son (age 12) today and he asked me what "virginity" meant (he whispered the word as he said it.) So I told him it meant not having had sex yet. He said he kind of thought so, but was just checking. Then he went on to say how the kids a grade ahead of him were always going around telling the younger kids they had "lost their virginity." Whether this is true or not, I don't know (probably is in some cases). But then Matt went on to say that he had even heard little kids in Grade One using language like "ass" and so on, and how he thought they were just too young to know that kind of language and he didn't think they should know that kind of language because they were too innocent. He figured you should be in at least Grade 5 before you know that kind of language. He realized that the little kids got it from the bigger kids and so on. I just love it when my kids get philosphical and righteous about things. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 17:55:07 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: spirituality & Joni I've heard spirituality mentioned a few times on this since I joined a week ago. I'm very interested in the topic of pop music and spirituality. Does anyone know what Joni is into? I just watched some Joni videos sent to me via the Joni tree, and I heard her mention influences such as Krishnamurti (an independent philosopher who was raised in the Theosophica Society), Chungyo Trumpa (the Tibetan Buddhist teacher who inspired Allen Ginsberg), and Joseph Campbell (a mythologist interested in interfaith studies). I even heard her make an odd reference to Scientology in one of her early appearances on the BBC. Was she ever involved in that sect? If anyone knows anything, let me know. ==- om==- Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:01:58 -0700 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: spirituality & Joni My impression would be that she is influenced by these and other things and has her own personal spirituality that comes across through her music and art, but probably defies any definition as does her her art. That;'s my own take on it anyway. If anyone asked me what I was into I wouldn't have an immediate answer. Welcome to the list! Victor, enjoying some beautiful Atlanta weather >> I've heard spirituality mentioned a few times on this since I joined a week > ago. I'm very interested in the topic of pop music and spirituality. Does > anyone know what Joni is into? I just watched some Joni videos sent to me via > the Joni tree, and I heard her mention influences such as Krishnamurti (an > independent philosopher who was raised in the Theosophica Society), Chungyo > Trumpa (the Tibetan Buddhist teacher who inspired Allen Ginsberg), and Joseph > Campbell (a mythologist interested in interfaith studies). Victor Johnson waytoblu@mindspring.com Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios, Asheville ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:03:59 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: John Guerin, WAS: Re: Joni on American Masters ... Found this on johnguerin.com: Since the record boom of the late sixties, John Guerin has run the gamut of musical feelings, recording with greats such as Frank Sinatra, Frank Zappa, The Byrds and Thelonius Monk. In Jazz and Pop, he is one of the most recorded drummers of all time. In the film medium, his most celebrated work was on the soundtrack for Clint Eastwood's motion picture "Bird". He has also worked with Dave Grusin, Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and a myriad of other fine composers. Guerin traveled worldwide co-leading the L.A. Express and working with Joni Mitchell. His compositions include "The Hissing of Summer Lawns" with Joni Mitchell, "Don't Be Blue" with Michael Franks and countless songs with other artists. Guerin has produced many record projects including work for O.C. Smith, Keith Carradine ("I'm Easy"), and Terry Garthwaite. He achieved ProEmeritus status by winning the NARAS M. V. P. award for four years, and has authored a drum book titled "Jazz + Rock = John Guerin". Recent credits include work with Oscar Peterson, Jon Faddis, Jimmy Heath, k. d. lang, Ray Charles, Sonny Rollins, and producing a series of jazz CD's for Japan. Guerin is currently a Clinician for the D. W. Drum Company and is appearing with the trios of Roger Kellaway and Mike Melvoin. At 01:55 PM 4/13/2003 -0400, you wrote: >By pausing on Mr. Guerin, Lacy *did* give us HOSL. I've never heard a >thread about what Guerin brought or didn't bring to the stew. > >Is Guerin a jazzer? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:06:29 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: spirituality & Joni In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:02:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, waytoblu@mindspring.com writes: > < has her own personal spirituality that comes across through her music and > art, but probably defies any definition as does her her art. That;'s my > own take on it anyway. If anyone asked me what I was into I wouldn't have > an immediate answer.>> > But some artsists' spirituality doesn't come across in their lyrics at all, while others love to sing about it. Joni seems more fixated on relationships and politics, although I really don't know her catalogue that well. Her comments revealed a more spiritual side than I get from her lyrics. My own spirituality is very eclectic, mostly influenced by liberal "hippie" spirituality and Hinduism and New Age thought. ==-= om=== Nick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:06:17 +0100 From: "Stephen Toogood" Subject: NJC Parents attitudes to sex. My Mum wasn't quite that bad but she did shy away from the 3 letter word. Me and my sister were just laughing the other day, remembering how she used to leap from the chair for the remote whenever a movie love scene came on. She still does! Bless her, she still thinks I'm gonna' make her a Grandma even though I told her I am gay! My Dad on the other hand was just too much! When I was 14 he asked me if I knew how to have sex. Then he asked me to explain it to him. I was sure he was going to get a pencil and paper out! Steve T Catherine McKay wrote: > I remember well having "crushes" on adults, both male > and female, at around this age. Was it sexuality? Not > exactly, it wasn't well-formed. Maybe more like > pre-sexuality and/or hero worship. I didn't > particularly understand it and I found it kind of > confusing and disturbing, and I thought I was the only > weirdo in the world who felt this way. Of course, I > wouldn't speak to my parents about these things. My > Dad would probably have lectured me about self-control > and not getting too "intimate" (what the hell did he > he mean by THAT?); my Mum would have told me to pray > or something, which was her answer to most of life's > problems - and boy, was she relieved when she found > out they were teaching us sex-ed in school, because > she just didn't feel up to it herself. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:10:56 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Suburbia now njc In a message dated 4/13/2003 12:21:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > New puppy? Awwwwww. > > Yes Catherine, Colin's posts are starting to get to me. Now I have 3 dogs. And as Groucho Marx said: "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:11:53 +0100 From: colin Subject: blame Robin Williams NJC I feel fairly certain there are no Amish on this list so, as told by Mr Willimas: what do you call and Amish man with his arm up a horses rear? A mechanic..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:31:24 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Joni convert My friend who sublets my SF apartment and became exposed to Joni through me just emailed me because he watched the PBS special. His exposure to Joni was largely Hejira and Hissing. And he said that after watching through Joni's development in the documentary, when the opening passage of Hejira began, he got goosebumps. He said he thought it was becuase he felt we were hearing her masterpiece. He also sent this beautiful photo from my apartment deck that he titled "Moody Skies Today" I'm putting the photo in the email body for all to enjoy. I don't know if it will come through, but I hope so, since it was inspired by Joni's words! Ken [Unable to display image] [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Untitled01] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:30:15 -0700 (PDT) From: hell Subject: Re: Re: re exxon blue Catherine wrote: > This thread has come up a number of times over the > years. There are many interesting theories about > "Exxon Blue" and "Radiation Rose", one of which got > into religious/bible territory that goes way over my > head, but which was presented pretty convincingly, at > least for this pea-brain. It would be there in the > archives somewhere, but do you think I'm going to > look? Hell, no! I'm way too lazy. But it's there > somewhere. That was me, at least I was one of the people with a "religious" interpretation (I think there were a few others). My post follows below (if anyone can be bothered reading it again)! I think this song is about the interactions of religion and technology. I've dissected the lyrics as follows: "Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming" Mary Magdalene, one of the first "sinners", trembling with fear and relief, forgiven by Jesus, the great redeemer. She is gleaming with happiness, having been "washed clean" of her sins. This gives us our first reference to religion and Christianity. "Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose" The multitudes - Christianity started with one man (Jesus) and a handful of followers, now it numbers in the millions. Also now there are billions more people in the world, and technology has advanced exponentially as a result, with the discovery of nuclear power, etc. Exxon blue - blue is also a term for a mistake, eg. the sinking of the Exxon Valdez. We've made several technological mistakes. Radiation rose - rose may refer to the lesions formed in radiation sickness, similar to the old nursery rhyme "Ring of Roses" referring to the pustules formed by bubonic plague - a symptom of our mistakes. Rose may also have been used as in the past tense of "rise", ie. the radiation levels rose? "Now you tell me Who you gonna get to do the dirty work When all the slaves are free? (Who're you gonna get)" Who is left to take the blame for our technological blunders, if religion can "forgive us our sins"? "I am up a sycamore Looking through the leaves A sinner of some position Who in the world can this heart healer be This magical physician" I think these first three lines mean that although she is a non-believer and feels superior in her beliefs, she feels she is not seeing clearly, ie. her vision or perceptions are obscured (by the leaves). Then perhaps she's questioning the basis of Christianity, that a religion can be based on just one man's philosophies, and how could someone literally heal someone with the touch of a hand. Or perhaps as a more indirect concept, how can we magically be forgiven no matter what we do, and therefore have no need to accept any responsibility? "Enter the multitudes The walking wounded They come to this diver of the heart Of the multitudes Thy kingdom come Thy will be done" The walking wounded - the everyday sinners who come to Christianity to be forgiven their sins, in the knowledge that they will be redeemed and eventually go to the kingdom, ie. heaven, if God so wills it, despite their sins. "Oh, climb down, climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest" Come down from the sycamore tree, stop your questioning and see clearly. "They think his light is squandered But he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered" The sceptics and non-believers don't understand how if Christianity or God has this power, why do mistakes like the sinking of the Exxon Valdez happen? But the basis of Christianity says that each individual is what is important, not the global actions of the "multitudes", and she realises how far from the truth her perceptions were. "Oh, all around the marketplace The buzzing of the flies The buzzing and the stinging Divinely barren And wickedly wise The killer nails are ringing" Perhaps an early reference to Ethiopia (before the song of the same name), or perhaps the spread of Aids in Africa via mosquitoes - the buzzing of the flies, the stinging and the killer nails. It seems to be a departure from the radiation theme, although "divinely barren" may refer to the sterilisation effect of radiation. Maybe technology is "wickedly wise" in making people in these countries sterile to off-set over-population? As for the changing lyric: "Ecstasy, Misery, Apathy, Tragedy" could this reference the history of the whole nuclear debate, or technology in general? Initially Ecstasy at the discovery of a new weapon, power source, etc. Misery after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as the implications are realised. Apathy as people think "well, we can't stop the big companies from using this technology, so why fight it?" Tragedy as the after-effects of Hiroshima, Chernobyl etc. are realised, sometimes many years later. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 16:34:33 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: spirituality & Joni SoulQuest7@aol.com wrote: > I've heard spirituality mentioned a few times on this since I joined a week > ago. I'm very interested in the topic of pop music and spirituality. Does > anyone know what Joni is into? I just watched some Joni videos sent to me via > the Joni tree, and I heard her mention influences such as Krishnamurti (an > independent philosopher who was raised in the Theosophica Society), Chungyo > Trumpa (the Tibetan Buddhist teacher who inspired Allen Ginsberg), and Joseph > Campbell (a mythologist interested in interfaith studies). I didn't know that > I even heard her > make an odd reference to Scientology in one of her early appearances on the > BBC. Was she ever involved in that sect? Not that I've heard-she is too headstrong I would think > If anyone knows anything, let me > know. ==- om==- Nick Her lyrics sometimes hint at things; zen, astrology, yin-yang, cosmic synchronicity, Casteneda, Lord Buckley, nature, The Bible, The I Ching....I think it's safe to say she's interested in all things mystical. On the PBS website for the American Masters program they called her a Buddhist. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:46:55 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: blame Robin Williams NJC What goes "bang!" "clop" "clop" "clop" "clop" "bang!" "clop" "clop" "clop".....? An Amish drive-by shooting. Cheerz, Janet and Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, who is somewhat more likely to respond to a cry of "fishies!" than to a bang... clop or no clop (and no blaming Robin Williams, either) At 11:11 PM 4/13/2003 +0100, colin wrote: >I feel fairly certain there are no Amish on this list so, as told by Mr >Willimas: > >what do you call and Amish man with his arm up a horses rear? > >A mechanic..... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:04:41 -0400 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Suburbia now/Swingers club NJC >Gossip is there if you want it to be, no matter what >neighbourhood you live in. Maybe in the suburbs back >then, when most mothers stayed at home all day, it was >a way of relieving some of the boredom - never mind >that gossip itself is pretty boring IMO. Your mother >probably just had enough sense to stay out of it. This is a good point. I do realize that gossip is pervasive. I think it was just a romantic idea to throw the hissing men and women into HOSL because it added another layer for me, albeit a thin layer :) We had some weird neighbors in Crofton, MD where I grew up. One Vietnamese couple, Wing and Ping had invited my mother and father to an infamous swingers club in Washington. I found this out years later and was a bit shocked! My mother said the idea of going to some club and getting in a hot tub with strange men and vice versa for my dad was a little too much for her. Blair >>I think Robert Frost was right when he said that a >good fence makes good neighbours (although I guess he >spelled it without the u.) Sometimes you can't make a fence tall enough though! > >===== >Catherine >Toronto _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:20:39 -0700 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Re: re exxon blue That pretty much explains it ... I wonder why people debate some of this stuff. I haven't heard this song. Obviously not a reference to the Exxon sign. It seems she is questioning what her role should be amidst all this senseless suffering. Not who will take the blame but who will do the dirty work. The situation is the human condition, she is saying to jesus, why should I have to go clean up your mess. She is first attracted to Jesus from mary's positive review. Magdalene was the whore, never been so redeeming, this redemption seems attractive to Joni, a sinner of some position, note her position currently is up a tree ... the multitudes of sufferers ... this makes Joni say no way pal, I can't deal with it, but I think I'm just repeating what you are saying ... the marketplace that is divinely barren and beset with flies ... that is Apathy. At first Joni thought Jesus could redeem her -Ecstasy. When redemption truly only liberates you to be honest that we all are to blame for the state of the world and that human suffering is senseless needless, she realizes he is the shepherd calling in a stray - Misery. Then she becomes Apathetic, I'm not gonna do it, I'm the magic heart lady in the tree. The marketplace of her soul, is beset by the evil of her Apathy and she recognizes that this is truly a tragedy that heaps suffering on top of suffering. The other result of her Apathy is to foul the ecstasy of her redemption, because if all being redeemed means is a free pass that denies the power of Jesus to redeem in the first place, it would mean he failed at what Jesus is, the lord is my Shepherd. Apathy isn't thinking or rationalizing it really means sitting on your butt while there is suffering all around you that you have turned a blind eye to. Yeah I don't live up to this either. "The Plague" by, Albert Camus is about the same thing, are reaction in the face of human suffering, once, we realize that no one suffers because Jesus doesn't like them, or they had it coming, people rationalize AIDS like this, and it is truly fucked especially when they are clergy. The other thing that is also fucked up is our apathy. The only difference is being apathetic at least you're not saying I'll sit this one out cause I got a note from God. Ok how are you magically forgiven? Cause that's it next, what did you think there was a test. You were forgiven in advance, they saw you coming. You were forgiven when Jesus died on the cross. However if you fuck it up you will end up spending eternity in hell, and, this hell is very real, evil and good are very real and the universe depends on you to keep the positive vibration, that is why Jesus can't let one wander. Even those that are wise can wisdom themselves out of the game. Jesus heals your heart, with love, you can either be true to it or not. The question is not who is going to forgive our sins, but who is going to mend our hearts... and also will we have faith in that covenant between ourselves and the divine piece of eternity which we can ignore or turn away from, but, we can't shut it down ..."and in my hour of darkness there is still a light that shines on me, shine until tomorrow, let it be." Let it be, I don't think it's a hope like please let it be. No way, it means leave it alone and let it shine, let the sun shine on in, you got to feel it, give peace more than a chance. Don't stand in doorway don't block up the hall. There is a battle outside raging...the battle between the forces of good and those of evil is real and it takes place in the hearts of all of us everyday. Some people want to sugar coat that, some people would say I'm off my nut. Don't take it from me, look inside yourself, do you feel what Joni was talking about that barren wasteland that we've made with our wisdom that says there is no magic, we made hard choices, if we didn't drop the bomb we would have got so many more killed, if we didn't ruin the environment the Russians would have, and all of sudden the government isn't enough, the community is not enough, corporate America is not enough, technology is not enough, and we are left with a choice. What are you going to do? Cause here comes the devil, (he was there in the details). Don't try to pick up your pace walking. You meet Jesus, and all you have to do is just touch the hem of his garment, you can rise above your trouble, we shall overcome, War is over if you want it. Jesus will reign on earth again, the second coming, thy kingdom come Thy will be done. A messianic age will be ushered in by the prophet Elijah, it's truly hard to imagine all the people living for the day, living life in peace, or the lion lying down with the lamb, but, it will happen, if you want references God parted the red sea and led us out of slavery, he gave us the law, he led us to the promised land, and he sent Jesus to show us the way and the light, we already know the answer, all you need is love. Rev. Ted Friedman, Universal Life Church, Modesto, CA "when the broken hearted people living in the world agree, there will be answer, let it be." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of hell Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 4:30 PM To: culheath@telus.net; joni@smoe.org; anima_rising@yahoo.ca Subject: Re: Re: re exxon blue Catherine wrote: > This thread has come up a number of times over the > years. There are many interesting theories about > "Exxon Blue" and "Radiation Rose", one of which got > into religious/bible territory that goes way over my > head, but which was presented pretty convincingly, at > least for this pea-brain. It would be there in the > archives somewhere, but do you think I'm going to > look? Hell, no! I'm way too lazy. But it's there > somewhere. That was me, at least I was one of the people with a "religious" interpretation (I think there were a few others). My post follows below (if anyone can be bothered reading it again)! I think this song is about the interactions of religion and technology. I've dissected the lyrics as follows: "Magdalene is trembling Like a washing on a line Trembling and gleaming Never before was a man so kind Never so redeeming" Mary Magdalene, one of the first "sinners", trembling with fear and relief, forgiven by Jesus, the great redeemer. She is gleaming with happiness, having been "washed clean" of her sins. This gives us our first reference to religion and Christianity. "Enter the multitudes In Exxon blue In radiation rose" The multitudes - Christianity started with one man (Jesus) and a handful of followers, now it numbers in the millions. Also now there are billions more people in the world, and technology has advanced exponentially as a result, with the discovery of nuclear power, etc. Exxon blue - blue is also a term for a mistake, eg. the sinking of the Exxon Valdez. We've made several technological mistakes. Radiation rose - rose may refer to the lesions formed in radiation sickness, similar to the old nursery rhyme "Ring of Roses" referring to the pustules formed by bubonic plague - a symptom of our mistakes. Rose may also have been used as in the past tense of "rise", ie. the radiation levels rose? "Now you tell me Who you gonna get to do the dirty work When all the slaves are free? (Who're you gonna get)" Who is left to take the blame for our technological blunders, if religion can "forgive us our sins"? "I am up a sycamore Looking through the leaves A sinner of some position Who in the world can this heart healer be This magical physician" I think these first three lines mean that although she is a non-believer and feels superior in her beliefs, she feels she is not seeing clearly, ie. her vision or perceptions are obscured (by the leaves). Then perhaps she's questioning the basis of Christianity, that a religion can be based on just one man's philosophies, and how could someone literally heal someone with the touch of a hand. Or perhaps as a more indirect concept, how can we magically be forgiven no matter what we do, and therefore have no need to accept any responsibility? "Enter the multitudes The walking wounded They come to this diver of the heart Of the multitudes Thy kingdom come Thy will be done" The walking wounded - the everyday sinners who come to Christianity to be forgiven their sins, in the knowledge that they will be redeemed and eventually go to the kingdom, ie. heaven, if God so wills it, despite their sins. "Oh, climb down, climb down he says to me From the middle of unrest" Come down from the sycamore tree, stop your questioning and see clearly. "They think his light is squandered But he sees a stray in the wilderness And I see how far I've wandered" The sceptics and non-believers don't understand how if Christianity or God has this power, why do mistakes like the sinking of the Exxon Valdez happen? But the basis of Christianity says that each individual is what is important, not the global actions of the "multitudes", and she realises how far from the truth her perceptions were. "Oh, all around the marketplace The buzzing of the flies The buzzing and the stinging Divinely barren And wickedly wise The killer nails are ringing" Perhaps an early reference to Ethiopia (before the song of the same name), or perhaps the spread of Aids in Africa via mosquitoes - the buzzing of the flies, the stinging and the killer nails. It seems to be a departure from the radiation theme, although "divinely barren" may refer to the sterilisation effect of radiation. Maybe technology is "wickedly wise" in making people in these countries sterile to off-set over-population? As for the changing lyric: "Ecstasy, Misery, Apathy, Tragedy" could this reference the history of the whole nuclear debate, or technology in general? Initially Ecstasy at the discovery of a new weapon, power source, etc. Misery after the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as the implications are realised. Apathy as people think "well, we can't stop the big companies from using this technology, so why fight it?" Tragedy as the after-effects of Hiroshima, Chernobyl etc. are realised, sometimes many years later. Hell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:24:55 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #127 In a message dated 4/12/03 11:01:35 PM, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: << When we moved into that neighbourhood, there were certain things you weren't "allowed" to do - the one that stands out most for me was, you weren't allowed to have a clothesline, because they were too unsightly or something. All the cable and phone lines were buried underground, so they didn't want any lines and wires messing things up. You were allowed to have one of those rotary things that turn around like a pinwheel, but no clothesline. There were a few other stupid and snooty things, but I don't remember them much now and I'm talking about local neighbourhood "rules" as opposed to municipal bylaws, some of which can also be pretty weird in some communities. Then again, there are neighbourhoods where even the colours you use to paint your house have to be approved. >> Yeah; in Levittown (the famous community that so many others were modeled after) you weren't allowed to have any FENCES (at least between the properties) which I only found out about lately as it has become a BIG issue. Lots of folks have above ground pools in their yards and Nassau County law states it must have a certain type & size fence around it (to keep little kids from getting into & drowning). But since the community runes state "no fences" there has been a big debate raging. And isn't there a commercial or something about people putting up a clothesline & the neighbors calling the cops and the cops coming and calling through a loudspeaker, "Remove the clothesline NOW" or something? I remember some kind of skit like that on TV recently. In Freeport, here on Long Island, they passed a law that if you don't maintain your property, the town will come & cut your lawn if it's over a certain height & bill you for it. Some of these laws and regulations arise from a minority of people who neglect their property or do outlandish things to their homes which either piss off the neighbors or devalue the neighborhood so, in some cases, I can see their point. I mean, I've seen some houses which I definately wouldn't want to live next to. (I know this ain't Joni related (not even LONI related) but it's between fans, right? Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 23:17:39 EDT From: SoulQuest7@aol.com Subject: Re: spirituality & Joni In a message dated 4/13/2003 4:37:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, guitarzan@direcpc.com writes: > < called her a Buddhist. > RR>>> Well, that may explain her reference to Chogyam Trumpa, the Tibetan Buddhist teacher that was an inspiration to so many poets. He has a center in Boulder. I think it was Allen Ginsberg that discovered him on the streets in New York. He was popular amongst the artists scene. He wrote some books, the most popular was called "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism." I haven't read them because I'm more interested in Hinduism. He died in the 80s I think. ==- om==- Nick ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #238 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)