From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #233 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, April 12 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 233 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni and tori nexus [Randy Remote ] Re: joni and tori nexus [cul heath ] Re: joni and tori nexus [Little Bird ] Ginsberg, relevant Joni content at the end [David Marine ] Re: joni and tori nexus [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: joni and tori nexus njc ["Wally Kairuz" ] Today's Library Links: April 12 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: NJC Richard Thompson ["ron" ] Re: hissing of the summer lawns ["ron" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:26:36 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus Little Bird wrote: I don't know if I'd go so far as to call her a > mysogynist, but she certainly seems uncomfortable > being surrounded by female admirers. I get the > impression she likes it better when a young male > artist enjoys her work, as opposed to a young female > artist. I wonder why that is? For that matter, she doesn't seem to want to work with female musicians on her recordings. I'm having a hard time thinking of any, but I'm sure she has. There was that live (Amnesty?) version of No. 1 with the singer from Sting's band. Yet every woman musician out there considers her an influence...the mystery deepens...I'm losing good sleep.... Goodnight RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:28:50 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus patrick leader wrote: >it's quite logical to be a joni and a tori fan. and tori worships joni, >although i'll bet joni would listen to tori and say 'i did all that >already'. that's joni's well-known blind spot, when she hears a younger >female musician, she usually only hears the similarities, and the >differences escape her entirely. > >i only once met wally breese, who created jonimitchell.com and probably >still counts as the biggest joni mitchell fan of all time, and he was also a >huge tori amos freak. at the time, he told me that he was so obsessed with >tori's live covers that every time she sang a new cover version in concert, >he had to track down a tape of it. he had 64 concert tapes! and this was >in 1998! > >some time soon after i joined the list (which i think was in 1997) i wrote a >long, semi-scholarly (well, serious at least) comparison of the first verses >of 'a case of you' and 'tear in your hand', pointing out similarities and >differences, noting that each had strong shifts from impassioned to >sarcastic at similar points. i mean just look at the fourth line of each: > >joni: if you want me i'll be in the bar >tori: if you need me, me and neil'll be hanging out with the dream king > >i can't find the original post; the jmdl archives don't go back that far. >but the point of both songs is so similar, an evocation of love that won't >work and yet is still unescapable, despite the pain 'taste so bitter and so >sweet' 'you don't know the power that you have, with that tear in your hand. >two brilliant songs. > >patrick > >np - tori - crucify ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:35:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus She performed with Buffy Saint-Marie in the early days and mentioned how much she enjoyed that experience. She also sang with Bjork live at Don Henley's "El Nino" concert in 1999. But yes, she has really not pursued duets with female artists and nearly all the women she claims as influences are from a much older era of crooners and jazz singers, except Laura Nyro. Oh, the mysteries of Joni's hotwired head! - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:29:10 -0700 From: David Marine Subject: Ginsberg, relevant Joni content at the end Hey list -- I couldn't let this Ginsberg smear alone, so let me once again speak in his defense. Ginsberg always specifically stated that he was not in favor of sex with pre-pubescent boys, and that he was a strong advocate of laws that protected innocent children from predators. He was one of the most gentle souls ever to walk the earth, and the idea that he was a predator himself or advocated any action that would harm children is simply incorrect. Ginsberg was an activist, and at the time he joined NAMBLA, the Reagan administration was on a witch-hunt. NAMBLA's charter specifically states that it is NOT in favor of any illegal sexual activity, but rather a discussion of the laws that dictate what sexual practices are allowed. For example, In Hawaii a 14-year-old boy is free to choose his sex partners, in Maryland he is not. NAMBLA works to address these discrepancies. No doubt there are evil predators in NAMBLA, but that does not mean the group should not be free to have an open discussion of sexuality and the laws that govern sexuality. There are evil predators in the Democratic and Republican parties, too. This advocacy of Ginsberg's is in keeping with his life's work, which openly and fearlessly challenged government oppression of free speech and consensual sexuality. I can tell you now that all of you on this list who consider yourselves gay owe a huge debt of gratitude to Ginsberg, who was censured, censored, and vilified for his early work (which ended up as a catalyst for the sexual and gay liberation movements). Ginsberg died six years ago this month. For those interested in his life, there was an eloquent obituary in the Times: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/0603.html Those who read the above link may see the Joni connections. Beyond that, Joni has talked a lot about the separation of the artist and his/her art. For example, she clearly respects Picasso's ability despite personal behavior that most would abhor. Or Van Gogh, who would piss in your fireplace, and drag you through turbulent indigo. And I believe she would wish the same separation to apply to her art and life as well. Does one dismiss T.S. Eliot based upon the assertion that he was an anti-Semite (an assertion strongly challenged by the appearance of recent letters)? What about Wagner? It's dangerous to pigeonhole an artist based upon isolated statements and affiliations without an attempt to understand their historical context. And even if an artist is judged to be abhorrent, is that reason to dismiss great art if they produce it? Best, David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:31:15 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus Andrew writes: << I get the impression she likes it better when a young male artist enjoys her work, as opposed to a young female artist. I wonder why that is? >> Heterosexuality? ;-) --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 21:36:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus > << I get the impression she likes it better when a > young male artist enjoys > her work, as opposed to a young female artist. I > wonder why that is? >> > > Heterosexuality? Oh, that. I can barely spell the word! - -Andrew (pretty in pink) Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 00:49:41 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus Andrew wrote: << I get the impression she likes it better when a > young male artist enjoys > her work, as opposed to a young female artist. I > wonder why that is? >> And I suggested: > Heterosexuality? To which he replied: >Oh, that. I can barely spell the word! Me again: Now, Andrew . . . With all this discussion of sodomy we've been forcing on the hets, it's time they had some bandwidth! --Bob PS: I had to spellcheck the word before I sent my original post! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:01:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: joni and tori nexus njc it wasn't me, ok? this time it wasn't me. someone else used the S word. let it be duly registered on the jmdl log. wally - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Murphycopy@aol.com Enviado el: Sabado, 12 de Abril de 2003 01:50 a.m. Para: littlebird3333@yahoo.com; Murphycopy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: Re: joni and tori nexus Me again: Now, Andrew . . . With all this discussion of sodomy we've been forcing on the hets, it's time they had some bandwidth! --Bob PS: I had to spellcheck the word before I sent my original post! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:37:33 -0400 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: April 12 On April 12 the following item was published: 2002: "Second annual Swag charity auction" - Canadian Press (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=796 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:49:20 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: NJC Richard Thompson >>>>>debra wrote >>>>>The studio versions don't impress me as much as his live versions do and they do seem like a let down, im totally with debra on this one. when i listen to RT its inevitably live, and preferably solo. he just has such a connection with his audience, such an amazing, relaxing way of talking, and the music comes across like hes just relaxing having fun with friends. and just listening to the cd makes you feel like youre there and a part of it... ron np - joni - night in the city - 2nd fret ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:56:43 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: hissing of the summer lawns hi i always associated the hissing in the title with something sinister. like everything looks smooth and green and uniform, and "no colour no contrast" but if you listen closely you can hear the hissing of snakes and evil and also just the basic primitive urges of mankind going on under all that repression. hence the picture of the snakes and tribal people on the cover. and if it really is about sprinklers im gonna be really, really disppointed. ron np - chelsea morning - 2nd fret sets ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #233 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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