From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #232 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, April 11 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 232 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: missing digests (NJC) [] Re: The hissing njc ["kakki" ] Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid [colin ] Re: Iraq's torture chamber, was List etiquette?now with Sodomy content/NJC [colin ] Re: Embedded njc ["kakki" ] re partl Joni/ part njc [cul heath ] plagiarism (njc) ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid [Catherine McKay ] Re: missing digests (NJC) ["kerry" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: sorry [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: Iraq's torture chamber, was List etiquette, njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #123 [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation [Rick and Susan ] Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation [Little Bird ] hissing of summer lawns ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Richard and Linda Thompson "Shoot Out The Lights" NJC [Aerchak@aol.com] re: the hissing ["mia ortlieb" ] Re: Richard and Linda Thompson "Shoot Out The Lights" NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid [colin ] Re: Annie Lennox! - with itty bitty Joni content njc really now [magsnbre] Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation [colin ] Re: NJC Richard Thompson [dsk ] Ute and Joni [Rdalindley@aol.com] Re: Richard and Linda Thompson "Shoot Out The Lights" NJC [Chris Marshal] sleepy pussies njc [colin ] Re: sleepy pussies njc [Jerry Notaro ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 [Randy Remote ] Woman Of Heart & Mind [Bob Shemkovitz ] Re: Iraq's torture chamber, was List etiquette?now with Sodomy content/NJC [Murphycopy@aol.] Re: plagiarism (njc) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Is this something for the jmdl archives? ["Heather" ] stevie wonder ["Kate Bennett" ] Chicago njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] re: the hissing [Catherine McKay ] Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni and tori nexus [Little Bird ] joni's blue on the life and times / woman of heart and mind [magsnbrei ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:28:39 -0500 From: Subject: RE: missing digests (NJC) Les the Webmeister wrote: "Kenny et al - I've contacted the list master of the Loni Anderson discussion list and he said he'll get back to you soon on those digests. Here's a link for you in the meantime: http://conterra.com/bookter/loni/loni.htm . I believe this is the first mention of Loni in the history of the JMDL." Loni and Joni Anderson, separated at birth?? TRULY a frightening thought. ;-) Mary P., up way too late. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:08:01 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: The hissing njc Lama wrote of the hissing lawns: > Before the water shortage in LA, many, many people from middle class and up > had lawn sprinklers. (Dunno if it still goes on. I haven't been there > since 1969. Hint!) Was the "hint" for LA input or for an invite out? ;-) 1969 was one of my fave years by the way - music, love, good times, but I digress... LA and most of SoCal is a desert so everyone with a lawn or plants has to water most of the year. Automatic sprinklers were pretty rare back then and I think many houses still don't have them. But people use those sprinkler thingies that attach to the garden hose and the bigger ones that do rotating 180 degree coverage make a hissing sound just like the auto ones. Sometimes it was so hot and dry you ran them all night and it was always a comforting sound to me - signaling nice warm pool and beach weather. ;-) Contrary to RS's opinion, I loved the title of the album when it came out! > I guess the natural vegatation in some areas is basically scrubbrush cause > it's so very dry. Some people had whole front yards of clover instead of > grass cause it's more resistant to dry conditions. Immigrants from back > east wanted grass, as G*d intended, so they put in sprinklers. The natural vegetation is scrublike with plenty of cacti - but also wild grasses and many wildflowers in the winter/spring. I once read that there are hundreds of species of palm trees growing in SoCal but only one is native (at least!) Grass is preferred but many people just put in plants that don't need much water like iceplant or a fancy rock garden! We also get a cycle of semi-tropical weather every 30 or so years which brings torrents of rain which leads to overgrowth and then the brush fire season. SoCal botanical and climate report over and out ;-) Kakki NPIMH - Richie Havens - Freedom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:15:13 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid Been drinking again? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:17:20 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Iraq's torture chamber, was List etiquette?now with Sodomy content/NJC KJHSF@aol.com wrote: >When I switched from Joni-only status, I wanted to be included on all this >njc conversation. Somehow, I totally missed the sodomy thread! :-( How'd >that happen? > > Seriously, though, I notice that sometimes there are responses to posts >that I never recieved in the first place. Does this happen to anyone else? >I really hate to be left out in the cold, especially where sodomy is >concerned. > Well, Ken, I didn't see any posts about sodomy either.... > >Sitting on my groceries, >Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:32:08 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Down to you and tidbits Maggie wrote: > I was there, and it was a much better concert than "local lore" would suggest. Yes, she walked off, but she came >back on and it was a very good show. But then again, I was as big a fan then as I am now, so perhaps I was more >willing to forgive the whole thing than a non-fan skeptic. You think? We think alike LOL. I remember reading here a few accounts of that day and my conclusion was that, rather than the speculation she was being difficult or was inebriated, that she may have been suffering from a touch of heatstroke or heat exhaustion. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 22:38:21 -0700 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Embedded njc Pez/Paz wrote: > Brings a hole new meaning to "embedded journalist". I'm so sick of hearing that term! Everytime I hear "embedded" it makes me think of those embedded chiggers in my flesh at PazFest ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:45:00 -0700 From: cul heath Subject: re partl Joni/ part njc hey kids, lets get the njc out of the way: grow up and join the world America...stop listening to your own news/propaganda, travel to another country and stay for at least year, try to remember that the US is an ongoing world experiment and just because you were born there, you don't own it. nuff... I had a great experience recently. A couple of weeks ago a woman friend of 23 years who is a die-hard Tori Amos fanatic asked me if I could send her some mp3's of Joni because during discussions with her about Tori I had drawn some parallels which she found intriguing. I sent her about 20 mp3s spanning across all the albums. Suddenly her website is full of ravings about this "new discovery" she has made that Joni Mitchell is a "goddess" etc... You know, all the things we have all said about Joni at one time or another. I stopped by her place on the way home from work last night with roommate Adrian (another recent convert to Mitchell and also a major Tori buff to the point that he bought a pair of her shoes on eBay a couple of years back). What was wonderful was listening to the both of them quoting their favorite Joni lyrics to each other and getting excited about how deep and provocative they are and basically sharing a common swoon over Joni's music. It was just so cool to see them going through the initial and fresh stages of discovery and awe at Joni's greatness just as I did 30 years ago. What a treat! And it also served to underscore just how timeless Joni's work is. Just thought I'd share that little tidbit. later for the monkey, cul... commie pinko faggot just so that ayn rand can't stop rolling in her grave favorite T shirt: Nuke A Faggot Whale For Jesus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 04:57:38 -0400 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: plagiarism (njc) Gees. I can tell Anne's healthier now. She's posting drunk. :) Lama >>Just to clarify, Bob M and I adore each other. Not THAT Bob M, the other Bob M. Or no, actually I adore BOTH Bob M's... Oh now I'm confused :-)>> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:56:56 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation I was listening to David Gilmour on Desert Island Discs this morning. What a splendid fellow he is, a seemingly completely sane man with a proper sense of his place in The Great Scheme Of Things. Interesting choice of music too, including Dylan, Cohen, Waits, the Kinks, Martha & The Vandellas - and Joni Mitchell! It was apt that he chose For Free, as he'd been talking about the struggle between earning money as a musician and knowing that you are vastly overpaid (at least when you get to his level - he recently sold his London house for #4m and gave all the money to a homeless charity). Anyway, it was a while since I'd listened to the song, and I heard it twice as I'd missed the first prog when it was first broadcast. And the second time, one thing really stuck out: at the end of the line about shopping for jewels, she really over-enunciates the word - "Joo-wells". And then with "schools" on the next line, she follows suit, leading to a distinctly odd "Schoo-wells". I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I was wondering if this is due to a quirk of Canadian pronunciation; and if there are other instances of this kind of unusual practice. Azeem in London NP: Richard Thompson - Cooksferry Queen PS Kristin Scott Thomas, one of my favourite actresses, was on the prog last week - she's got good taste too: an early Miles Davis (So What), Strauss's Four Last Songs, John Martyn (Spencer The Rover), Prince (Boys & Girls - I didn't know Under The Cherry Moon was her first film - could have drowned her movie career at birth), The Clash's Train In Vain, etc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid --- colin wrote: > > > Been drinking again? > > Whaddya mean "again"? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:04:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote, of Joni's "For Free", > one thing really stuck out: at the end of the > line about shopping for > jewels, she really over-enunciates the word - > "Joo-wells". And then with > "schools" on the next line, she follows suit, > leading to a distinctly odd > "Schoo-wells". I don't know if this has been > discussed before, but I was > wondering if this is due to a quirk of Canadian > pronunciation; and if there > are other instances of this kind of unusual > practice. Not this Canadian. It sounds off to me. I wonder whether she would say that in speaking, but I doubt it. She may have dragged it out deliberately to rhyme with "J00-wells" (I find even that word a bit extreme to be honest.) I find that part of the song kind of jarring - it's like people who say "fil-um" and "el-um" for "film" and "elm" - I don't know if that's a regional dialect, a class thing, or just that some people have a hard time putting an /l/ and an /m/ together like that. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:32:39 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: The hissing njc kakki wrote: > > > I once read that there >are hundreds of species of palm trees growing in SoCal but only one is >native (at least!) > True here in Florida also. Full of palms, but only one is native. > NPIMH - Richie Havens - Freedom > A wonderful song. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:39:40 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Re: missing digests (NJC) I was thinking exactly the same thing! Great Midwestern minds think alike...... Kerry Mary wrote: > Loni and Joni Anderson, separated at birth?? TRULY a frightening thought. > ;-) > > Mary P., > up way too late. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:42:42 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 Blair surmised: > It could be the snide hissing of gossipy men and women living in the > suburbs.... The way people talk about each other in such controlled living > spaces is usually not without a touch of cruelty.. > > > > > > I am somewhat experienced about living in the suburbs, having done so for 50 of my 54 years. That has not been a particularly distinctive experience for me. I can relate to Joni's "no color, no contrast" analogy, and to other images and metaphors for such hissing, but I do not think that one is what Joni was aiming at. Also there is a tendency to not even really know one's neighbors in the burbs (perhaps from lack of contact). I am not sure what is so controlled about the living spaces in the suburbs, either. Has this been your experience, living in the suburbs ? Bobsart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:47:10 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 In a message dated 4/11/03 3:01:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > These neighborhoods are mostly white, all rich, yards groomed, > everything under control. These things it shares with middle-class > suburbia. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:48:39 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 Randy wrote: > These neighborhoods are mostly white, all rich, yards groomed, > everything under control. These things it shares with middle-class > suburbia. Is the "all rich" juxtaposition with "middle class" not an oxymoron ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:49:41 EDT From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: sorry My e-mail just "sent" 2 messages before they were complete, when I attempted to edit the caption. sorry. do not know why Bob sart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:02:39 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Iraq's torture chamber, was List etiquette, njc << There's a huge difference between what I said and what she said. >> Yes, of course there is. But it's all a matter of degrees. Don't be hatin'. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:09:14 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #123 << Any chance of re-sending me the Loni Digest #124 & 125? >> Me too! I want to find out more about what Loni has been doing since since WKRP. Thanks, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:20:01 -0700 From: Rick and Susan Subject: Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation On 4/11/03 2:56 AM, azeemak@aol.com wrote > And the second > time, one thing really stuck out: at the end of the line about shopping for > jewels, she really over-enunciates the word - "Joo-wells". And then with > "schools" on the next line, she follows suit, leading to a distinctly odd > "Schoo-wells". I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I was > wondering if this is due to a quirk of Canadian pronunciation; and if there > are other instances of this kind of unusual practice. I saw Joni in concert in the early 70's and she apologized for this pronunciation on the recording. She said she had no idea why she chose to sing it that way, kind of trailed off with a little chuckle, and proceeded to sing the song with the pronunciations "jools" and "skools". Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:20:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation >>I don't know if that's a regional dialect, a class thing, or just that some people have a hard time putting an /l/ and an /m/ together like that.>> I think it's a rhythm or rhyming thing. She likely wanted to stretch out the words to two syllables to fit the cord, just like she condensed "Esterella" into three syllables from four, making it "Es-tray-a." - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:46:16 -0400 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Down to you and tidbits Bob Murphy asked Bob Muller: > Yikes, Bob! Isn't this the infamous Boston concert during which she walked off stage? Man, am I glad I skipped that one. (Not so sure I would have ever forgiven her lack of professionalism.) I had been talking up Joni to a friend at the time and he went to this concert. After that he never wanted to hear her name again! > That was my first opportunity to see Joni, who I'd loved since discovering her at the time of the release of the "Clouds" album. I was a SERIOUS fan, and had been made only more so by the "Hissing" through "Mingus" releases. I was disappointed by "Wild Things," but that didn't diminish the joyful anticipation I had waiting a couple of months for this concert. The show itself was part of the "Concerts On The Common" series, and began in the early evening, when - thanks to daylight savings time - it was still "broad daylight." Behind the seating areas, in the back of the makeshift venue constructed for the yearly series, were the concessions and the Port-O-San toilets. My sense as to why Joni walked off (in answer to Bobsart's later question) is that she got upset with people carrying drinks back to their seats (it WAS outside and it WAS July), or getting up to go relieve themselves. My memory is that, aside from the small amount of "milling about," the audience was very respectful and attentive. Tapes of the show may say she played 18 songs, but my recollection is that she walked off in a huff, mid-song ("Song For Sharon"!!! - my FAVORITE!!!) not too long after the show began. There was an announcement made, if recollection serves, saying that Joni would be back in a few minutes. Well, let me tell you ... that "few" minutes was close to, if not more than, an hour. At the point at which she did finally come back on it was night. She played a few more songs and then said something like "Come back and see me sometime when the lighting is better." Bob Muller has the tape, so maybe he can clarify on that point. I was livid, and lost a great deal of respect for Joni as "a person" that night. Much like Bob Murphy suggested, I felt so betrayed by her lack of professionalism and respect for her devoted audience that I have had a VERY hard time getting over it. I didn't play her music for close to a year, I don't believe, and have never truly forgiven her. Had I been Bob's friend - instead of already having 15 years of rabid fandom under my belt at that time - I would never have wanted to hear her name again, either. In the years since, thanks to interviews she has given, etc., I have come to view Joni (as "a person") as an egotistical prima donna. I have had to overcome that view to remain the fan that I am, since I've always liked my heroes to be, first and foremost, "nice people." I've been successful, though, which explains my continuing presence here. Best, (formerly Boston) Jim NP: Lyle Mays Trio at E.J.'s in Atlanta, GA on August 21, 1981 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:03:04 -0400 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: hissing of summer lawns Little Bird wrote: > Well, what about the Hissing of Summer Lawns. What is > hissing? I always thought it was snakes. . . little garden snakes, slithering and hissing. Funny though, I had never *consciously* thought about it until now. Marianne _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:16:28 EDT From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Richard and Linda Thompson "Shoot Out The Lights" NJC I would highly recommend "Shoot Out the Lights" by Richard and Linda Thompson. It has got to be one of the best break up, divorce, angst wridden albums ever. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:20:29 -0500 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: the hissing Hi Andrew, I have to say that the lawn sprinklers never occured to me until after I joined this list. Although the sprinklers make total sense to me now, I'll still share with you what I "used to" think "hissing of summer lawns" meant. As a child, I used to be somewhat of a tomboy, and I played outside in the trees, fields, and parks alot. (then I grew up and discovered insects, yuk!) I remember having intensely humid, hot summers sometimes here in Wisconsin, and I remember laying on the ground level with the grass and actually seeing the grass sizzle and steam under the heat.. it did sort of make a "hissing" sound to me. It may have just been my wild imagination, or perhaps it is along the lines of "hearing the humming in the wires in the walls".....which I used to hear, as well. Mia - who still can't believe "liquid Melvin" is actually "leadfoot Melvin" _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:21:49 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Richard and Linda Thompson "Shoot Out The Lights" NJC Aerchak@aol.com wrote: >I would highly recommend "Shoot Out the Lights" by Richard and Linda >Thompson. It has got to be one of the best break up, divorce, angst wridden >albums ever. > Perfect for every Joni fan! Jerry :-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:31:20 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid oops sorry Catherine. that was meant to be private. Didn't mean let the list know about your habits..... Catherine McKay wrote: > --- colin wrote: > > > >>Been drinking again? >> >> >> >> > >Whaddya mean "again"? > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 08:32:11 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: Re: Annie Lennox! - with itty bitty Joni content njc really now thanks Andrew, Heather and Susan for the wonderful reviews of Annie's concert. Oh how I would love to see her. She's in town tomorrow evening, alas, after a busy day in the north, honeyboi and i are going to see Tom Rush at a local community college, literally for a song. We've had these tickets since valentines day ;-) Cant wait. We've both seen Tom in concert, but never together, so it's going to be wonderful to share this. Tom always sings a Joni song or two, and beautifully so. I met him last April when he performed at Hugh's Room in Toronto (oh Canada!) He has a wonderful sense of humour which he brings into his performance...reminds me of a certain Cheryl Wheeler (hi Ashara!) Tom is a lovely down to earth man, very approachable. He stood there with arm around me for ages, patiently waiting for my friend to find batteries for his camera for a wonderful photo op. (imagine the smile on my face!!) we had a grand old chat too. Alas, I digress. I love Annie...and have for many many years. Im so happy that you all had this opportunity to see her in such an intimate setting. As Ive said before, Annie always takes me back to my days in Halifax, Nova Scotia which is a good thing. again, thanks so much for allowing us to live vicariously through your experiences. I love it when jmdlers share the view. Mags np: annie....17 again.it's twu it's twu ;-))) You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:33:13 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation schools and jewells rhyme without elongating them. Maybe she just felt like it, it had to fit the note or was being prentious. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:40:03 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC Richard Thompson AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > > Personally, I would take a different approach. I like to hear the studio > versions first, and get to know the songs, and *then* hear the live versions, > which can be an enhanced experience, especially when he's tearing into a > guitar solo. If you hear the live versions first, the studio takes might > seem like a let-down! The studio versions don't impress me as much as his live versions do and they do seem like a let down, but I'm collecting all his cds anyway (not easy since many are out of print), and expect at some point I'll appreciate the subtleties of the studio recordings more than I do now. Recommending where to start with RT is as enjoyable as when someone asks where to start with Joni (even a few RT fans have asked me!). It's never occurred to me to suggest getting Joni's live cds first; they're always toward the bottom of my list of suggestions just before "Hits", "BSN" and "T'log". Her studio albums are so well-crafted and elegant, to me they are the "essence" of Joni, and I don't think her live performances enhance those original recordings. I wonder if that has to do with the difference between Joni and RT as I see it (she uses the guitar? he IS the guitar?) or if it's just that I came to know Joni through buying her albums as each one came out and her live performances are something extra, but for me not the "main" Joni, whereas I learned first about RT through his performances so his studio recordings are the "extra". So many of the long-time RT fans' recommendations are similar to what Azeem has suggested (especially the YES to the cds with Linda) that it's made me wonder if it's possible to sort out one's history as a fan (when and how did one get hooked?) and make any kind of objective recommendation (probably not). To get to know RT, I'd still go with the live cds, and listen to the Linda and studio cds later, subjectively speaking. > << For now, I'd also suggest staying away from the Richard and Linda cds. >> > > Ah, I beg to differ! ["ME, ME, LISTEN TO ME, CHRIS, DON'T LISTEN TO > DEBRA..." ;-) ] LOL! Oh, no, it's the battling RT fans... that gives an idea of "discussions" on the RT list. Are you sure you want to get into this, Chris? > Believe it or not, for this tour he's found *another* superb young Texan > drummer, whose name escapes me. He's Earl Harvin, a friend of Michael Jerome, who's touring with someone else so couldn't go to Europe with RT. > Erm, does this help, Chris?? Good luck, Chris! :-) Happy RT-ing! Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 12:45:21 EDT From: Rdalindley@aol.com Subject: Ute and Joni So after all of the talk after the Wall to Wall event about Ute Lemper, I was reading an article in a Chicago magazine asking about Ute's upcoming tour. "WHAT CAN WE LOOK FORWARD TO AT YOUR SHOW? UTE: Most of the new album and all of my own songs. I have a great band of New York musicians and a great crew. It's just great to be on the road, I might do the new tribute to Joni Mitchell set." Might be a great chance for some of us to hear the songs she did at Sympony Space - I'd love to hear her Black Crow. I know in Chicago she's going to be at the Athenaeum on April 13 - 14. And she's playing the Bottom Line in NYC. Rob - in the blue TV screen light ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 17:50:48 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: Richard and Linda Thompson "Shoot Out The Lights" NJC On Friday, April 11, 2003, at 04:16 PM, Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > I would highly recommend "Shoot Out the Lights" by Richard and Linda > Thompson. It has got to be one of the best break up, divorce, angst > wridden > albums ever. On that basis, sold! I'd also recommend, in the same vein, "Change Everything" by Del Amitri. They're a scottish band originally, and i'm not sure they made it over to the USA. Worth getting if you can find it though, and if you're feeling like a good sniffle. Debra, Azeem: thanks for your insights between you. I wasn't quite sure what to get next, so I bought "Rumour and Sigh" on the basis that it was cheap at #5. I actually wanted to find "Mock Tudor", and "Shoot Out The Lights" but they were nowhere to be found in Cambridge. And I have an RT story to close with: I had lunch, just today, with a business colleague/friend. We were having a good old talk about life the universe and everything, and headed onto the topic of music. I asked him if he liked Richard Thompson, to which he replied: "I've met him, interviewed him, and played on stage with him once!" This floored me slightly... Turns out that in a previous life an associate of my friend's had sent him off to take press shots of Crowded House (buh-dum, another name drop) and said "oh, by the way, you'll have to interview RT too." I think RT was supporting Crowded House or something. Anyway the interview turned into a bit of playing, and a the gig later, RT dragged my friend up on stage to play on a song or two. Crowded House later did the same thing... It's the old N-degrees of separation thing... so close, yet so far! - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:18:58 +0100 From: colin Subject: sleepy pussies njc http://b3ta.com/sleepy-kittens/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 13:26:45 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: sleepy pussies njc Colin, You know better than to send me a message with THAT subject heading! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 10:57:19 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #126 Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: > Randy wrote: > > > >> These neighborhoods are mostly white, all rich, yards groomed, >> everything under control. These things it shares with middle-class >> suburbia. > > Is the "all rich" juxtaposition with "middle class" not an oxymoron ? I don't think so. The shrinking middle class (more so now than then) is increasingly the working poor, credit cards maxed, jobs in jeopardy. "Take away our Play Stations and we are a third world country" - -Ani DiFranco My point was that the world Joni was describing was upper-class, not middle. Although it's all relative. To someone in Sudan or Bulgaria, our middle class is wealthy. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:13:12 -0400 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Woman Of Heart & Mind I just found this description of the upcoming DVD release at the Eagle Vision site located at: http://www.eaglevisionusa.com/home.htm > Joni Mitchell > Woman of Heart and Mind > Documentary > > This DVD is a complete look at the extraordinary career, life and artistry of > singer/songwriter/poet/painter Joni Mitchell. On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, the > famed, award winning PBS series 3American Masters2 will premiere a > ninety-minute documentary on the life of Joni Mitchell. > > Her prolific sense of artistry and passion for sharing has brought many a > feeling from the heart to the head. 3Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart and Mind2 > is a unique look at Joni Mitchell: as an artist of magnitude and sensibility. > > Features: > Interviews > Photo Gallery > Discography > 6 languages: German, French, Italian, Dutch, Spanish & Portuguese. I'd been hoping that some of the concert & tv song performances would be included in their entirety as extras, but it looks like that won't be the case. Still, that feature listed as "Interviews" sounds promising - I'm guessing it's more of the recent Joni interview that was excerpted in the show. Definitely looking forward to this release! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:18:38 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Iraq's torture chamber, was List etiquette?now with Sodomy content/NJC Ken writes: << When I switched from Joni-only status, I wanted to be included on all this njc conversation. Somehow, I totally missed the sodomy thread! :-( How'd that happen? >> Sometimes sodomy (OUCH!) is in the eye of the beholder. --Bob NP: Spice Girls, "I'm Only Cumin" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:33:29 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: plagiarism (njc) Anne kindly wrote: << Just to clarify, Bob M and I adore each other. >> To which Jim cruely replied: << Gees. I can tell Anne's healthier now. She's posting drunk. >> And I respond with: You know, Jim, not everyone who loves me is drunk, although it does often seem to help! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:00:59 -0400 From: "Heather" Subject: Is this something for the jmdl archives? I'm not sure if this is pertinent to the jmdl so please bear with me. I had forgotten that I own an interview cd, complete with fully illustrated book, with Annie Lennox. I think the interview was conducted by Lucian Randall ... at least that is the name on the box and book. Anyhoo, in the interview she makes a notable reference to Joni Mitchell as her prime inspiration. Is this something that should be noted in the jmdl files or is it already there? I can make an audio clip of that segment of the interview if there is an interest for it. Resident jmdl doofus on these matters, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 18:19:09 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Ute and Joni Kewl...thanks for the info Rob, I'd love to see her do some Joni covers again.... Do u have her website address? rosie in nj In the morning there are lovers in the street They look so high You brush against a stranger And you both apologize ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:19:48 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: joni and tori nexus it's quite logical to be a joni and a tori fan. and tori worships joni, although i'll bet joni would listen to tori and say 'i did all that already'. that's joni's well-known blind spot, when she hears a younger female musician, she usually only hears the similarities, and the differences escape her entirely. i only once met wally breese, who created jonimitchell.com and probably still counts as the biggest joni mitchell fan of all time, and he was also a huge tori amos freak. at the time, he told me that he was so obsessed with tori's live covers that every time she sang a new cover version in concert, he had to track down a tape of it. he had 64 concert tapes! and this was in 1998! some time soon after i joined the list (which i think was in 1997) i wrote a long, semi-scholarly (well, serious at least) comparison of the first verses of 'a case of you' and 'tear in your hand', pointing out similarities and differences, noting that each had strong shifts from impassioned to sarcastic at similar points. i mean just look at the fourth line of each: joni: if you want me i'll be in the bar tori: if you need me, me and neil'll be hanging out with the dream king i can't find the original post; the jmdl archives don't go back that far. but the point of both songs is so similar, an evocation of love that won't work and yet is still unescapable, despite the pain 'taste so bitter and so sweet' 'you don't know the power that you have, with that tear in your hand. two brilliant songs. patrick np - tori - crucify ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 16:25:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: stevie wonder >>i would compare these 4 lps to jonis' blue-roses-court-and hissing periods. and they are just as good. give em a listen, you'll see.<< i agree, those 4 albums are top top top top of my list ....one of my fav songs (forget which album) from that time period is/was AS... npimh- 'i'll be lovin you always' stevie wonder www.katebennett.com "Lyrically, it's a work of art overall. Brilliant writing, absolutely." Indie-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:12:00 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Chicago njc This is picking up a rather cold trail, but what the hell. I decided to go and see Chicago, partly by default (the bus took so long to get into central London that I missed the start of Gangs Of New York), partly curiosity. I wasn't expecting to love it, as I just don't like musicals, but I thought it'd be worth a look, especially having scooped the Oscar for best film. Reader? I gave it the bum's rush. I can't offer a full and lucid critique, as I didn't make it to the end. I survived longer than I did with Moulin Rouge, the only other film I have ever walked out of; there was some good acting in here, and a few scenes that worked. But, sorry, I thought overall it was a pile of pony. The editing of the song-and-dance numbers was far too choppy, I found. The tone was never settled or convincing to me. The whole premise of the film was bizarre to say the least, with all sorts of psychological implications that I wouldn't even begin to go into. And, by the time Richard Gere (surely the most charmless leading man in recent memory) launched into "Give 'em the old Razzle-Dazzle", I knew the time had come to make my excuses. I didn't care what happened in the end, didn't give a toss about these deeply unpleasant people; and I was reflecting on quite how this film managed to snaffle up the top prize at the Oscars. Meretricious fluff is more biddable than a magnificently realised epic, a superbly human and humane war drama, a vibrant labour-of-love biopic or an ambitious, thoughtful, literate portmanteau film, it seems. Just goes to show how much I know, eh? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:49:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: re: the hissing --- mia ortlieb wrote: > As a child, I used to be somewhat of a tomboy, and I > played outside in the > trees, fields, and parks alot. (then I grew up and > discovered insects, yuk!) > I remember having intensely humid, hot summers > sometimes here in Wisconsin, > and I remember laying on the ground level with the > grass and actually seeing > the grass sizzle and steam under the heat.. it did > sort of make a "hissing" > sound to me. It may have just been my wild > imagination, or perhaps it is > along the lines of "hearing the humming in the wires > in the walls".....which > I used to hear, as well. You're not the only one, Mia. I swear to God, between the heat and the bugs and stuff just growing, that summer lawns do hiss. And I hear humming in the walls too (now that could be tinnitus, or schizophrenia, but I think not - wires do hum.) Can anyone else smell snow coming? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:50:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: FROG LOAN - njc and completely stupid Nice try, Colin. I make no secret of my nasty habits. Now where'd I leave that gin bottle? --- colin wrote: > oops sorry Catherine. that was meant to be private. > Didn't mean let the > list know about your habits..... > > Catherine McKay wrote: > > > --- colin wrote: > > > > > > >>Been drinking again? > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > >Whaddya mean "again"? > > > > > >===== > >Catherine > >Toronto > > > >______________________________________________________________________ > > >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > > > > > > > > ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:27:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation --- Little Bird wrote: > > I think it's a rhythm or rhyming thing. She likely > wanted to stretch out the words to two syllables to > fit the cord, just like she condensed "Esterella" > into > three syllables from four, making it "Es-tray-a." Yeah, but isn't it Estrella? If you pronounced it the Spanish way, it would be "Es-tray-a". (Spanish word for star.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:27:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Iraq's torture chamber, was List etiquette?now with Sodomy content/NJC In a message dated 4/11/2003 12:35:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, KJHSF@aol.com writes: > I notice that sometimes there are responses to posts > that I never recieved in the first place. Does this happen to anyone else? Only with Wally's mail, Ken. AOL doesn't like his address for some reason and blocks him from coming through. Bob NP: Kjellerbandet, "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:29:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni's idiosyncratic pronunciation Oh, I didn't realize "Es-tray-a" meant star in Spanish. I like that! On Annie Lennox's cover version of the song she sings "Es-ter-el-la." - -Andrew - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Little Bird wrote: > > > > I think it's a rhythm or rhyming thing. She likely > > wanted to stretch out the words to two syllables > to > > fit the cord, just like she condensed "Esterella" > > into > > three syllables from four, making it "Es-tray-a." > > Yeah, but isn't it Estrella? If you pronounced it > the > Spanish way, it would be "Es-tray-a". (Spanish word > for star.) > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:37:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus --- patrick leader wrote: > it's quite logical to be a joni and a tori fan. and > tori worships joni, > although i'll bet joni would listen to tori and say > 'i did all that > already'. that's joni's well-known blind spot, when > she hears a younger > female musician, she usually only hears the > similarities, and the > differences escape her entirely. This is one thing that does irritate me about Joni. She rarely says anything good about other artists, especially female artists, and most especially younger female artists. She seems to be a bit of a misogynist that way. Likes to think of herself as "one of the boys". She's often quoted saying things like that. i wonder how much of it is taken out of context? She does admire some older female singers, like Billie Holiday. The only female contemporary I can think of that Joni has had anything good to say about is Laura Nyro. As for younger ones, I think she finds Bjork interesting (but that doesn't mean she likes her). Has she ever said anything about Tori Amos? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:47:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: joni and tori nexus She's publicly knocked Alanis, Sheryl Crow, The Indigo Girls and Madonna to name but a few. I don't think she's said anything bad about Tori, specifically, but I would guess that she'd dismiss her as a "tributary." In the "W" interview last fall she said that, of all the "new" female artists, she thought Bjork possessed the most natural female sexuality - that there was no artifice in her voice and that it came straight from her gut. She also said she didn't really relate to her as a musician, so there you go - she has to quip about how they aren't quite up to par even when she likes them. She did mention she wanted to work with Sinead O'Connor at one point but it never panned out - again, she liked the authenticity of the voice. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call her a mysogynist, but she certainly seems uncomfortable being surrounded by female admirers. I get the impression she likes it better when a young male artist enjoys her work, as opposed to a young female artist. I wonder why that is? - -Andrew - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > --- patrick leader wrote: > > it's > quite logical to be a joni and a tori fan. and > > tori worships joni, > > although i'll bet joni would listen to tori and > say > > 'i did all that > > already'. that's joni's well-known blind spot, > when > > she hears a younger > > female musician, she usually only hears the > > similarities, and the > > differences escape her entirely. > > This is one thing that does irritate me about Joni. > She rarely says anything good about other artists, > especially female artists, and most especially > younger > female artists. She seems to be a bit of a > misogynist > that way. Likes to think of herself as "one of the > boys". She's often quoted saying things like that. i > wonder how much of it is taken out of context? She > does admire some older female singers, like Billie > Holiday. The only female contemporary I can think of > that Joni has had anything good to say about is > Laura > Nyro. As for younger ones, I think she finds Bjork > interesting (but that doesn't mean she likes her). > Has > she ever said anything about Tori Amos? > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:55:52 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: joni's blue on the life and times / woman of heart and mind I am sure it has been discussed before, however, can anyone tell me where the live segment of Blue is from? What venue? what a heart wrenching performance. Absolutely exquisite. I am struck by the similarity of Kilauren and Joni's voices...I had my back to the screen for a moment and thought I was listening to Kilauren. some beautiful tender moments with Joni, Kilauren and the grandbabies..I know, Ive said this before and it is worth mentioning again...and again. Wonderful that Ann-Marie McDonald was the host of the Canadian programme. She is a Canadian actor, among other things, and she participated in the Hommage for Joni in Toronto, October 2001. I think she recited one of Joni's songs however I can't remember which one..anyone know? canuckian Mags np: same situation, joni on lthe cbc life and times You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: magsnbrei Subject: Re: joni's blue on the life and times / woman of heart and mind ooops sorry about that..I meant...when I heard Kilauren speaking, I thought it was Joni. Oh nevermind. You knew what I meant anyway. Mags. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 23:16:45 EDT From: PassScribe@aol.com Subject: Lou Reed story Hey, Patrick Just wanted you to know I loved your Lou Reed story (from the Digest that I accidently erased, from 4-10 but found in the archives.) Yes; only in New York City! Kenny B ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:22:41 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Woman Of Heart & Mind Oh, good they're gonna put some extra stuff on it-looking forward to the first jmdl review of this DVD. http://www.eaglevisionusa.com/html/music_d/Joni-Woman.htm Bob Shemkovitz wrote: > I just found this description of the upcoming DVD release at the Eagle > Vision site located at: http://www.eaglevisionusa.com/home.htm > > > Joni Mitchell > > Woman of Heart and Mind > > Documentary > > > > This DVD is a complete look at the extraordinary career, life and artistry of > > singer/songwriter/poet/painter Joni Mitchell. On Wednesday, April 2, 2003, the > > famed, award winning PBS series 3American Masters2 will premiere a > > ninety-minute documentary on the life of Joni Mitchell. > > > > Her prolific sense of artistry and passion for sharing has brought many a > > feeling from the heart to the head. 3Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart and Mind2 > > is a unique look at Joni Mitchell: as an artist of magnitude and sensibility. > > > > Features: > > Interviews > > Photo Gallery > > Discography > > 6 languages: German, French, Italian, Dutch, Spanish & Portuguese. > > I'd been hoping that some of the concert & tv song performances would be > included in their entirety as extras, but it looks like that won't be the > case. Still, that feature listed as "Interviews" sounds promising - I'm > guessing it's more of the recent Joni interview that was excerpted in the > show. Definitely looking forward to this release! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #232 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)