From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #207 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, April 1 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 207 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni dream [Chorando6@aol.com] Beth Orton NJC ["Tamsin Lucas" ] RE: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! [Deb Messling ] SONG TO A SEAGULL [Cactustree78@aol.com] Re: STAS memories [Catherine McKay ] RE: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! [Catherine McKay ] RE: Re: Iraq-NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: Song to a Seagull [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Joni, then and now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC Re: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni the cover girl [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Joni dream ["theodore" ] Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics [AsharaJM@aol.com] NJC Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Sisotowbell Lane [Bob Shemkovitz ] thanks Les! [anne@sandstrom.com] NJC IRAQ: Dictatorship versus its people ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! [Doug ] RE: Iraq--NJC [] Re: Sisotowbell Lane - njc without sjc and with no vljc besides [Murphyco] Re: Joni, then and now [Little Bird ] Re: Joni, then and now [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Sisotowbell Lane - njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: NJC Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: Iraq--NJC ["theodore" ] Re: Iraq--NJC [Jerry Notaro ] Joni's PBS special [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: Iraq--NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Iraq--NJC [colin ] Re: Joni, then and now ["mack watson-bush" ] NJC Re: Joni, then and now Grassroots [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] njc I Feel I'm Fixin to Die ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 04:05:48 EST From: Chorando6@aol.com Subject: Joni dream well, I dont get it but some one out there may. Last night i dreamt I was in a meeting with Susan Sarandon, whats hername Anders and a joni lookilikey. All three were talking about films they were making of joni's life. They were all arguing about the authenticity of their interpretations and the closeness to the reality of jonis life. In the dream I found myself warming to Susan Sarandon, who kept saying 'though she had the clout of hollywood behind her and a big budget, she wouldnt let that affect her realistic and gritty approach.' Alison Anders was a bit snooty and kept telling everyone she had jonis approval and shaking her head in a knowing way. I have jonis approval...I have jonis approval. In the dream I wanted to hit her. The lookilikey sort of became joni and just stood there. Then somehow Helena bonham Carter appeared and started talking about joni the actress and said that she played her husband in Planet of the apes. Then I was looking at a big screen of Helena bonham carter talking to Joni in an ape outfit. You could tell it was joni cos the ape had very light blonde hair. They were talking about ways of letting the others know. Who the others were and what it was they wanted to let them know is beyond me...and then i woke up. Am I mad? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 09:52:18 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Beth Orton NJC Saw Beth at the Royal Albert Hall last night and she kicked ass as usual :) Her voice seems much lower live and she definitely sounds like she smokes 20 a day. Her voice cracks a lot too but that just adds to it IMHO. She finished her first encore with my current fave written by her "friend Ryan", "This one's gonna bruise" and then actually came back for a 2nd encore as she seemed to be enjoying being at the Hall a lot and did "I wish I never saw the sunshine" - I felt all wrapped up in warm and fluffy melancholy... The support was Brendan Benson who I'd not heard before but I liked him too. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 05:46:10 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! Two hours? In my TV guide it says 90 minutes! Am I getting an edited version? At 11:46 PM 3/31/2003 -0500, you wrote: >I dunno. All of the pre-press says that PBS is going to show the full 2 >hours in one straight shot. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 05:49:35 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! The American Masters web site has been promising: Watch this space in April 2003 for upcoming features, including essays, film clips, filmmaker interview, and an interactive timeline. Okay, it's April. Where are my essays, etc? See http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/mitchell_j.html At 11:35 PM 3/31/2003 -0500, you wrote: >In the USA, Joni's being recognized as an "American Master" on Wednesday >night. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 06:53:29 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: SONG TO A SEAGULL Just wanted to throw my couple cents in on this...This is truly one of Joni's masterpieces(along with the rest)for a debut album(or for any album) its so powerful...sensual..intense..romantic...loving..fearful..so may different emotions...But then again ms joni can take volumes worth of feelings and put them into one sentence..thats one of her greatest gifts...Night in the City is my fave on the whole thing followed by the Dawntreader...both affect me in different ways..dawntreader makes me wanna cry(just the purity of her voice..and the complexity of the music/lyric) Night makes me wanna get the hell outta jersy cross the bridge and make my way to the big apple....I had a king.. is pretty rad.. but. Michael from mountains..WOW...i can write more, maybe i will tonight, but im leavin work now..07:00 sharp!(graveyard shift :P Hope you all have a terrific day!! ****kevin**** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 06:59:13 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: STAS memories --- BRIANASYMES@aol.com wrote: > I think the nimble fingers on Song to the Seagull > could be turned into a > concerto by say Christopher Parkening. I hear this too and wish my guitar playing/composing were good enough to play what I can hear in my head. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:26:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > I dunno. All of the pre-press says that PBS is > going to show the full 2 > hours in one straight shot. > > 1. If that's so, then the PBS version has more than > two subtitles. In the > PR, my local affiliate calls Wednesday night's show, > 'Joni Mitchell: Chords > of Inquiry'. There is a Joni-quote in Woman of blah-blah where she's talking about her weird tunings and calls them "Chords of Inquiry." This may have been a working title. Apparently, as you point out, there were a few before they settled on something (maybe "settled" like a fly, for a nano-second, before "settling" on something else.) > But then in the schedule they call it 'American > Masters: Joni Mitchell: > Woman of Heart and Mind "Joni Mitchell: Chords of > Inquiry"' and show what > appears to show a 75minute slot on Wednesday night. > That doesn't match the > PR for the USA version (a single two-hour block) nor > does it support 2 > one-hour segments that Canada got. The Canadian version was shown in two one-hour pieces. There was an intro by Anne Marie McDonald (no relation to Ronald), a Canadian writer and actor - this would have been CBC's own thing. There were also commercial breaks (done in tasteful and logical places so, even though they were commercials, they didn't annoy as much as they usually do - when I say "tasteful and logical", it's along the lines of, well, if I must be tortured, then I'm so glad they're playing that nice music in the background feeling you get when you're at the dentist.) That should bring total running time of the film itself under 90 minutes. I understood the CBC version did cut a bit from the "other" version. I don't know where I read that, but it wouldn't surprise me, since the CRTC allows more commercials per hour than US television does and there's always a minute or two missing from the Simpsons as aired on Canadian TV compared to what airs on US TV - sometimes it's glaringly obvious that something's missing, but most of the time, it's not noticeable (unless you happen to catch the same episode on a US channel and wonder how you happened to miss that part.) What worries me most is the possibility of a 75-minute time slot. It would be so like PBS to stick a pledge-raising thing in there somewhere to bring total running time to 90 or 120. I plan to tape this puppy (whether it ends up being the same as what I already taped off CBC or not) and since I will be taping off my TV at work (it's brand new and its VCR works exactly as it should), I'd be really disappointed to have the whines of "your phone call could make the difference" and "we'll shut up as soon as we've got $10,000 in pledges, so c'mon now and call us at 1-800-bla-blah right now and we can get back to Joni Mitchell!" in the middle of it. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:33:57 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: re: sisotowbell lane --- frasere@intergate.ca wrote: > From my take on things Catherine, sounds like you > know the Saskatchewan way of > life rather well. The berries surely were Saskatoon > Berries. I am told they > make the most magnificent pies! > Sure you've never lived there? I never lived there, but I lived in small-town northern Ontario (northern by Toronto standards, but not by Northern Ontario - capital N for a reason - standards) 'til I was 12. We lived right on the edge of town with free run of all the farmer's fields and we'd disappear all day running around like maniacs out there. If you went not too far out of town, there were hills and woods. My Dad's company owned a cabin out in the woods and we'd go there for weekends sometimes. There was no electricity out there. At first the ight came from kerosene lamps and the fridge was a real Ice box - you'd have to go into the village and get a big chunk of ice that would last a few days. There was a big old wood stove - bacon and eggs never tasted better than when they were made on the wood stove. There was a gas-powered generator that was used for getting running water from a well or maybe from right out in the middle of the lake (which is most likely polluted now, but it wasn't then.) You could walk through the woods and pick blueberries, but you had to watch out for bears. There were houses on the drive upthere that could have been right out of the "dueling banjoes" movie (for the life of me, the name escapes me) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:34:53 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: Re: Iraq-NJC --- blckcrow@chorus.net wrote: > Colin wrote, and Mack responded: > > "> quite right. so why are we not invading Saudi > arabia? Iran? Zimbabwe? > > and numerous other countries. > > I don't imagine those that are against war would be > any happier about > attacks against those countries. And who knows, > they may be next. Maybe it's the second coming, and the wrath has finally taken form? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 07:36:49 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull In a message dated 3/31/2003 9:36:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, bshemkovitz@bozzutos.com writes: > Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal > throughout. > I agree. This is the album that got me hooked onto Joni. I was hanging with my cousin and she had this album on her little "record player in a box". (Anyone remember those?) At 12 years old, I stopped dead in my tracks and said, "WHO *IS* THAT?????????? The love affair has still lasted all these years. :-) Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:07:37 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics I love everyone's take on Sisotowbell Lane. That's one of the things I like best about the list- the analyzing of the lyrics, and the different takes on it. I am definitely a "music first" kind of gal. I get so engrossed in the music, I don't often read the lyrics to songs, yes that includes Joni's. (Maggie and many others have already given me untold grief about this.) It is SO bad that I think I have mondegreened at least one line in almost every single Joni song she has written. I wasn't going to post some of these for fear of being the laughing stock on the list, but what the hell.........here's a gift of laughter in the midst of what is going on in the world right now. I think we could all use a laugh. (By the way not only do they not make any sense, but most of them aren't even real words!!) {sigh} Misheard: "And the Lord under throw" Actual: "And the Lord on Death Row" From: "The Same Situation" Misheard: "I'll even kiss a sunset pink" Actual: "I'll even kiss a sunset pig" From: "California" (at least this one was close!) Misheard: "In Conapin" (I wondered where Conapin was on the map!) Actual: "ink on a pin" From: "Blue" Misheard: "Now the warriors of winter gave a dreary on thunder shout" Actual: "Now the warriors of winter gave a cold triumphant shout" From: "Urge For Going" There are many more where that came from, but I won't embarrass myself further. Speaking of smiles, if you haven't signed up yet for Jonifest, this might be a great time to do it! Plans are moving along for the best Jonifest yet, and I think we could all use a little music and smiles in our lives soon! All the best to you. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 08:29:45 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now In a message dated 3/31/2003 11:15:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > It depends on what you consider to be "the pop world." > Joni made the comments in reference to radio play, of > which she gets none. In that sense, the pop world has > indeed shunned her. Where is she on the dial? Nowhere. And she's in good company. Most of the music I like is not on the radio, hasn't been for about 20 years. She certainly doesn't pander > to the radio formula and never has. This is false. She admits that she wrote "You Turn Me On I'm A Radio" specifically to get airplay, even filling the song with catch phrases to get DJ's to use them on air. Further to that, in her early days she was proud of the fact that her songs were getting airplay (by way of George Hamilton IV, Tom Rush, Ian & Sylvia), so her desire to be commercial has never been well-masked. > Frankly I like it when Joni whines. There are lots of people who would love to have had a career in the arts as she has had. Lots. Her talent and accomplishments have been recognized as much as, if not more than, her peers. Bob NP: Joni, "Dreamland" Forest Hills 8/25/79 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 08:30:44 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! In a message dated 4/1/2003 5:49:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: > Okay, it's April. Where are my essays, etc? Ha Ha. April Fool! :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 08:38:11 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics In a message dated 4/1/2003 8:07:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsharaJM writes: > I wasn't going to post some of these for > fear of being the laughing stock on the list, but what the > hell......... Naw, we've all done it, Ashara...my dumbest one was this one, from "In France They Kiss On Main Street"..."Liquid Melvin" instead of "Leadfoot Melvin". "Liquid Melvin"???? In YOUR words...WHAT was I thinking? Oy! Laughing it all away, Bob NP: Joni, "Furry Sings The Blues" 8/25/79 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 08:46:58 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni the cover girl Warren in UNJC-land, eat your heart out! If you lived in Detroit, not only would you be getting the PBS special in all its glory, you'd have a TV guide with Joni on the cover. I've got a scan of it for anybody who's interested. Deb, I'm automatically sending it to you! :~) Bob NP: Joni, "God Must Be A Boogie Man" 8/25/79 [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/pjpeg which had a name of Joni-TV Guide.JPG] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 05:53:12 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Joni dream Of course you are not mad. All three women represent the transformation of your soul in different stages of a spiritual journey. The representation of Joni being their ultimate goal. Three different roads to ultimately becoming joni. Susan Sarandon represents you pleasing everyone, taking the well worn path that others may expect of you. Alison Anders is your inner child. You resist her because even though she has Joni's approval, you fear reprisal. Bonham Carter is the solution she is the incarnation that allows you to blend the two and achieve your goal ... not a perfect Joni, but, one that represents where you are in your spiritual growth. The others are those who you are afraid will not accept your half formed state. Who perhaps depend on your maturity, look up to you, pieces of yourself really. It is also interesting that the dream revolves around a show or a movie. The others may in fact be the audience that you perceive needs you to perform in a prescribed way. This dream is telling you it's ok to be where you are. Susan Sarandon may have the approval of Hollywood, but, the end result is a phony Joni. Take steps to let yourself go and don't worry about appearing childish. Send $75.00 for this e - therapy session to: Just kidding! Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Chorando6@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 1:06 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni dream well, I dont get it but some one out there may. Last night i dreamt I was in a meeting with Susan Sarandon, whats hername Anders and a joni lookilikey. All three were talking about films they were making of joni's life. They were all arguing about the authenticity of their interpretations and the closeness to the reality of jonis life. In the dream I found myself warming to Susan Sarandon, who kept saying 'though she had the clout of hollywood behind her and a big budget, she wouldnt let that affect her realistic and gritty approach.' Alison Anders was a bit snooty and kept telling everyone she had jonis approval and shaking her head in a knowing way. I have jonis approval...I have jonis approval. In the dream I wanted to hit her. The lookilikey sort of became joni and just stood there. Then somehow Helena bonham Carter appeared and started talking about joni the actress and said that she played her husband in Planet of the apes. Then I was looking at a big screen of Helena bonham carter talking to Joni in an ape outfit. You could tell it was joni cos the ape had very light blonde hair. They were talking about ways of letting the others know. Who the others were and what it was they wanted to let them know is beyond me...and then i woke up. Am I mad? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:59:29 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics In a message dated 4/1/2003 8:38:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > Naw, we've all done it, Ashara...my dumbest one was this one, from "In > France They Kiss On Main Street"..."Liquid Melvin" instead of "Leadfoot > Melvin". > Uh.......I did this one too. {blushing} Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 09:01:06 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics In a message dated 4/1/2003 8:59:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsharaJM writes: > Uh.......I did this one too. {blushing} So maybe we should call you the "Mondequeen"? :~) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:04:46 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics In a message dated 4/1/2003 9:01:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy writes: > So maybe we should call you the "Mondequeen"? :~) > Uh......yup. I haven't even touched the surface of the mess my ears have made of her lyrics! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 09:20:34 -0500 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: Sisotowbell Lane Mia wrote: > I alway thought that Joni was referencing a time or a place for pregnant unwed > mothers... The biggest clue that I see is the repeated reference to "rocking > chairs"... Also, the last line "we wait for you" indicates to me that the > character is just waiting out the time until the baby is born. > > This is such a lovely song, with such unique guitar fingering. I'm with Mssr's Muller & Murphy on this one - DUH! How obvious... but only after it's been pointed out to me! Thanks for your insight, Mia. I think Andrew's interpretation is valid, too, when he says Joni is singing about an ideal lifestyle lived in an idyllic place. But I think it's very likely that this particular place is indeed a home for unwed mothers that Joni knew of, whether or not she ever lived there herself. Also, I think I know what Andrew is getting at here, but I have another take on it: > Also, the rocking chair reference doesn't quite fit the pregnancy theme > either, only because it seems to be used in rotation: "Each of us rocks his > share." Somehow the idea of a fictional world of pregnant mothers waiting in > rocking chairs for their kids to be born doesn't seem like the crux of this > song to me. If that were the case, wouldn't it be "rocks HER share?" Not necessarily - remember this was recorded in 1968, before the feminist movement of the 70's and the subsequent changes in the use of personal pronouns. In books and movies from that time, you often see "he" and "his" and "himself" used as third-person references to women. That seems archaic now, but I suspect "rocks HER share" would have sounded jarring to many people back then. Remember, Joni does say "we have a rocking chair" - she's including herself in the group, yet she still says "his", because at that time it was the accepted way of speaking. (As for using the chair in rotation, I think it's because there's only one: the lyric is "we have A rocking chair.") And I agree that this is one of the loveliest songs on the album. Counting the hours til Woman Of Heart & Mind & Lots & Lots Of Subtitles ;) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 06:41:02 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: thanks Les! A big thank you to Les for setting up the music sharing stuff. I don't quite understand it all, but maybe once I use it it will become clear. Joni content: Is it possible to make the tape/CD tree stuff available using this method? (Maybe it's up there already?) I would think it would be a great way to share Joni stuff. Just a thought... and I'll just say the word "covers" and run for - cover LOL (Hi Bob!) looking forward to tomorrow night's special. Lama, you're right about the subtitles. It's kinda like x=y=z :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 16:45:44 +0200 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: NJC IRAQ: Dictatorship versus its people Yes, Saddam has to go, but at what a price? Spain's top-selling newspaper EL PAIS printed a photo on Sunday of a little Iraqi girl being carried by her father. What was left of right foot was dangling by a thread from her ankle. Today, EL PAIS had a front page photo of a 12 yr. old boy from a town on the outskirts of Baghdad with no arms. His torso was so badly burned that doctors say he probably won't survive. All his family were killed instantly, 12 of them. It's difficult to find reliable figures of the numbers of innocents killed so far, but what with reports daily streaming in, the mind can only boggle. But... Saddam needs to go. It's too bad, isn't it? I've lived in Spain for 20 years. Just five years before I moved here, it regained its democracy after 40 years of a brutal dictatorship under Generalmsimo Francisco Franco. Imagine if Roosevelt, or some other US president, had gotten a bee in his bonnet about that tyrant? He was a mate of Hitler's, wasn't he? And although he didn't come out and openly support Hitler, there certainly was a lot of shady business done behind the scenes. And didn't Hitler do Franco a big favour when he bombed the hell out of Guernika in the Basque Country in 1937? Out of a population of 7,000, almost 1,000 were massacred.when 40 German planes dropped 50,000 kilos of incendiary bombs. The town centre was completely destoyed. Many more were left mutilated and badly wounded. (Interesting to note that prior to one of Colin Powell's pre-war visits to the UN headquarters, officials had Picasso's Guernika covered over with a blue flag) The point I'm trying to make is, if a US president had decided to bomb Spain 'cos he didn't like Franco, I wonder if I would have the same great friends I have now. Their parents and grandparents might have become "collateral damage". What if Franco had lived 40 years later and bombs were raining down on us now.... ? How can bombing Iraq and then handing out biscuits help liberate those poor people? If you want to read about some recent "collateral damage" (despicable term), here are a few links. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61229-2003Mar31.html http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,6119,2-10-1460_1341016,00.html http://www.progressive.org/webex03/wx033103.html Peace gill in madrid "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 10:15:20 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: thanks Les! In a message dated 4/1/2003 9:41:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > I would think it would be a great way to > share Joni stuff. I think that's the intent. Just a thought... and I'll just say > the word "covers" and run for - cover LOL (Hi Bob!) Hi Anne! I would hope that it can be set up for people to pick & choose and make their own collections as they see fit. It won't change what I'm doing now in terms of making compilation cd's, only add some flexibility for those who want it. And speaking of covers, and aren't I always, I'll unveil Volume 39 today and also announce NEW & exciting ways to win your own copy! Bob NP: Joni, "Just Like This Train" San Francisco 9/8/79 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:29:07 -0600 From: Subject: RE: Iraq-NJC Catherine wrote, in response to Mack, Colin, and me: > > "> quite right. so why are we not invading Saudi > arabia? Iran? Zimbabwe? > > and numerous other countries. > > I don't imagine those that are against war would be > any happier about > attacks against those countries. And who knows, > they may be next. Maybe it's the second coming, and the wrath has finally taken form? Me now: Catherine, this is what I fear, more than anything else. OK, maybe not THE second coming. But I am very much afraid that our leaders have absolutely no idea what they have just unleashed. I pray for our world. Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 10:49:57 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Joni Special: WEDNESDAY NIGHT !! The reason the Canadian version was two hours long was so that we in Canada could have the privelege of watching a half hour of commercials. ;-) Doug Deb Messling wrote: >Two hours? In my TV guide it says 90 minutes! Am I getting an edited version? > > >At 11:46 PM 3/31/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > >>I dunno. All of the pre-press says that PBS is going to show the full 2 >>hours in one straight shot. >> >> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Deb Messling -^..^- >messling@enter.net >---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 09:50:57 -0600 From: Subject: RE: Iraq--NJC I wrote: Mack, this misses the point that at least some of those standing in opposition now are not against all wars, but against *this* one in particular. And part of the reasons we're against this one is that the stated rationale of the U.S. government seems inconsistent with its prior action, or inaction, in other nations under similar circumstances. If one of our supposed reasons for the invasion is to separate the Iraqi people from the clutches of Saddam Hussein, then why haven't we taken similar action in the countries Colin mentioned, not to mention scores of others? It doesn't make sense--unless, of course, the "liberation" of the Iraqi people is not the real reason for the war, but one that our elected officials know will be infinitely more palatable to the American public than the true motivation. And that is exactly what many of us strongly suspect. And Mack responded: "Actually Mary, I am well aware of those points as I have used them many times myself while in political chat. Seriously, I am distressed that we are at war but can do nothing but support our troops at this time. As always, enjoy your take." Me again: what I was really responding to, I suppose, was the assumption I thought I saw in your earlier post that those who opposed this war would oppose war against any of those other countries, too. Fact is, some are against all war, and would; others, like myself, might, or might not. One of the factors I use in deciding whether to lend my wholehearted support to a military action, among many others, is consistency. Is this action the same as has been taken in other, similar situations? A "no" answer is not necessarily fatal, but that would usually be because there are other over-arching and unambiguous reasons to intervene. I might well support military action in those other countries, but on different grounds (I imagine that, depending on the circumstances, consistency might be a problem with them as well). As for supporting the troops: I am so very divided on this one. I've heard many on the left say, "But I do support the troops. I want them to come home safe." However, my partner and I have ties to many in the military community. To make this statement, and to end the matter there, ignores the fact that the troops are there to perform a very real mission which not a few of them believe in completely. From their point of view, "supporting" them, without supporting that mission, is absolutely meaningless. So I think that this position of those on the left is a bit disingenuous. However, I think it's equally disingenuous for those who support the war to attempt to "guilt" those who oppose it into "supporting the troops." This latter group, I think, is very *much* concentrating on the mission* of those troops, and, I believe, is actually asking for support of the *war,* when it comes right down to it. Where I am now: I feel deeply for every soldier, sailor, airman and officer who is over there right now, and for their families. I hope with all my heart that they come home. I appreciate the very real sacrifice they are making, even though I can't approve of its purpose. To say I support their mission, though, just because they are there now, as a result of a decision that ignored the will of a significant portion of the American public and the international community, is simply a statement I can't make, because I don't. I know you didn't say any of this, Mack! It's just my 2 cents. I always enjoy your take, as well. Have a good day, all, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 10:58:18 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sisotowbell Lane - njc without sjc and with no vljc besides Kay writes: << Bob Murphy, I have only one thing to say to you: MORNING HAS BROKEN!! JUST LIKE THE FIRST MORNING!! HIT IT!!! 1-2-3-4!! >> KAY, KIDDO! WHERE ARE YA NOW? ARE YA IN SOME HOTEL ROOM? DOES IT HAVE A VIEW? SMALL WORLD, ISN'T IT! SMALL AND FUNNY AND FINE! GIVE MY REGARDS TO BROADWAY, BABY! --Bob, stealing that extra bow with Ethel's singing head emerging from his stomach, a la "Alien" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:03:47 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni, then and now >> she certainly doesn't pander >> to the radio formula and never has. > This is false. She admits that she wrote "You Turn > Me On I'm A Radio" specifically to get airplay, > even filling the song with catch phrases to get DJ's > to use them on air. At David Geffen's serious urging. She did it sort of grudgingly, I think. Even this attempt was almost tongue-in-cheek: radio towers, transiters, Breafast Barney, sign-off prayer. It's so over the top "radio" that it's like, "Okay - you want a radio hit? Here!" And the DJs just don't get it. They play it because even in its irony it fits the radio format. > Further to that, in her early days she was proud of > the fact that her songs were getting airplay (by way > of George Hamilton IV, Tom Rush, Ian & Sylvia), so > her desire to be commercial has never been > well-masked. Which is why she started whining when her air play suddenly stopped. She certainly has never stopped writing the way she wants to write simply to get air play. That's what I was getting at. > There are lots of people who would love to have had > a career in the arts as she has had. Lots. Her > talent and accomplishments have been recognized as > much as, if not more than, her peers. Oh, she knows that: "As a standard-setter in my art, I'm not uncomfortable with that." She's played with some of the best in the business and she acknowledges that but, as she says, where art meets commerce it's always tricky. I'm just trying to play Joni's spokesperson here, trying to defend her a bit. I'll be shutting up now. - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 11:26:22 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now In a message dated 4/1/2003 11:03:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > I'm just trying to play Joni's spokesperson here, > trying to defend her a bit. I can appreciate that Andrew...just don't lose your objectivity in doing so. Not everything Joni says or does is worth defending. And certainly no need for you to shut up. If I gave the impression that I wanted you to do that, I sincerely apologize. Far from it, I'm lovin' the Joni talk! :~) Bob NP: Joni, "Black Crow" 9/8/79 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 11:28:43 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Sisotowbell Lane - njc Bob writes: << I'm with Mssr's Muller & Murphy on this one >> That's three Bobs, three Bobs, do I hear four? Four? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 13:29:25 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: NJC Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics seriously, you MUST ask ashes to write a complete list of her misheard lyrics. there's a line from urge for going that will leave you all gawking. ashes, YAQUOMB anyway! wally, whose butt is badly sunburned - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de SCJoniGuy@aol.com Enviado el: Martes, 01 de Abril de 2003 11:01 a.m. Para: AsharaJM@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Asunto: NJC Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics In a message dated 4/1/2003 8:59:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, AsharaJM writes: > Uh.......I did this one too. {blushing} So maybe we should call you the "Mondequeen"? :~) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:37:45 -0800 (PST) From: magsnbrei Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane and misheard lyrics Ashes!!! thanks for sharing...these are very very good. Yes offering up some lightness into these dark days is most welcome!!!! a mondegreen i would like to add: from Song for Sharon: misheard: shine your light on me Mr. Berti. real lyric: shine your light on me Miss Liberty. kinda cute I thought ;-) as for Sisotowbell Lane...I love it too... for that matter , I love the whole album and it continues to grow on me every time I listen. It truly is a lullabye for me. I can visualize Mia's interpretation very clearly. There are hints of this part of Joni's life in so many of her songs. And I can also see Catherine's. I spent many summer holidays and weekends on a farm in southern ontario...and the images that Joni paints in this song are very similar to my memories of sitting in the middle of simpler times...drinking water from a well, pumped by hand, the creaking of old wooden rocking chairs out on the front porch...beautiful wild flowers in the garden...a barn which became everything under the sun that my little girl imagination could conjur up under the heat of summer sun days. My childhood sanctuary, paradise on earth that lives inside me still. My Aunt Laura could have easily been the centre piece of this song. Mags, singing songs of joy and peace :[ You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 08:58:19 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Iraq--NJC I agree. I do not support our troops except by my tax dollar and I try to vote against those that propose spending on defense. That said I do not wish that they be killed or hurt, or that they will learn what my dad did in Vietnam, how to kill or be killed, how to keep track of your kills by cutting off the ears of the dead and stringing them through your belt loop. How to try desperately to hold in the guts of a fallen friend while he screams his last breath in some foreign jungle, age nineteen, wasted. Look at the billions we spend on defense and folks still live in fear. I am not a leftist, I am a liberal, a card carrying liberal. Say lib- er - -al, rad- ic- al. I love it. I am a liberal and a radical. I'm a high night flyer, a rainbow rider and a straight shooting son of a gun. And I say Joy to the world! I for one am just anti-war. This one will be a blood bath. Today we fired on a bus load of women and kids because they didn't understand to stop at a checkpoint. Once the soldiers get mixed in with the civilians our troops won't know who the enemy is, fear will rule the day. I even heard one of those generals on cnn say well this generation of Iraqi children may just have to be sacrificed for the next. Horrible. One half the population of Iraq is under the age of eighteen. There are 5 million people in Baghdad. Just another generation who grow up hating and learning to kill out of fear. Truly I can't imagine anything noble or liberating about perpetuating violence, can you? And if you in fact can find some compelling reason for violence, how, then can you send others to do you dirty work? Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of blckcrow@chorus.net Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 7:51 AM To: mack watson-bush; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Iraq--NJC I wrote: Mack, this misses the point that at least some of those standing in opposition now are not against all wars, but against *this* one in particular. And part of the reasons we're against this one is that the stated rationale of the U.S. government seems inconsistent with its prior action, or inaction, in other nations under similar circumstances. If one of our supposed reasons for the invasion is to separate the Iraqi people from the clutches of Saddam Hussein, then why haven't we taken similar action in the countries Colin mentioned, not to mention scores of others? It doesn't make sense--unless, of course, the "liberation" of the Iraqi people is not the real reason for the war, but one that our elected officials know will be infinitely more palatable to the American public than the true motivation. And that is exactly what many of us strongly suspect. And Mack responded: "Actually Mary, I am well aware of those points as I have used them many times myself while in political chat. Seriously, I am distressed that we are at war but can do nothing but support our troops at this time. As always, enjoy your take." Me again: what I was really responding to, I suppose, was the assumption I thought I saw in your earlier post that those who opposed this war would oppose war against any of those other countries, too. Fact is, some are against all war, and would; others, like myself, might, or might not. One of the factors I use in deciding whether to lend my wholehearted support to a military action, among many others, is consistency. Is this action the same as has been taken in other, similar situations? A "no" answer is not necessarily fatal, but that would usually be because there are other over-arching and unambiguous reasons to intervene. I might well support military action in those other countries, but on different grounds (I imagine that, depending on the circumstances, consistency might be a problem with them as well). As for supporting the troops: I am so very divided on this one. I've heard many on the left say, "But I do support the troops. I want them to come home safe." However, my partner and I have ties to many in the military community. To make this statement, and to end the matter there, ignores the fact that the troops are there to perform a very real mission which not a few of them believe in completely. From their point of view, "supporting" them, without supporting that mission, is absolutely meaningless. So I think that this position of those on the left is a bit disingenuous. However, I think it's equally disingenuous for those who support the war to attempt to "guilt" those who oppose it into "supporting the troops." This latter group, I think, is very *much* concentrating on the mission* of those troops, and, I believe, is actually asking for support of the *war,* when it comes right down to it. Where I am now: I feel deeply for every soldier, sailor, airman and officer who is over there right now, and for their families. I hope with all my heart that they come home. I appreciate the very real sacrifice they are making, even though I can't approve of its purpose. To say I support their mission, though, just because they are there now, as a result of a decision that ignored the will of a significant portion of the American public and the international community, is simply a statement I can't make, because I don't. I know you didn't say any of this, Mack! It's just my 2 cents. I always enjoy your take, as well. Have a good day, all, Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:04:09 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Iraq--NJC theodore wrote: > Once the soldiers get mixed in with the civilians >our troops won't know who the enemy is, fear will rule the day. > Can you spell V-i-e-t-n-a-m? Come on all of you big strong men ............ Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:24:51 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Joni's PBS special In NY it's listed as 90 minutes from 9:00 to 10:30 Can't wait. Andrea in Saratoga Springs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 12:53:17 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Iraq--NJC In a message dated 4/1/2003 12:04:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > > Once the soldiers get mixed in with the civilians > >our troops won't know who the enemy is, fear will rule the > day. > > > Can you spell V-i-e-t-n-a-m? For those who haven't seen it, "Three Kings" starring my double George Clooney is a great film and deals with just this theme. Bob NP: Joni, "Raised On Robbery" 9/8/79 (one of the Shadows & Light tour songs left off the record) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 18:56:03 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: Iraq--NJC I don't understand your response, Jerry. can you elaborate please? (or do you just mean that this war will be ike the Vietnam one? drag on and on and we lose?) Jerry Notaro wrote: > theodore wrote: > >> Once the soldiers get mixed in with the civilians >> our troops won't know who the enemy is, fear will rule the day. > > Can you spell V-i-e-t-n-a-m? > > Come on all of you big strong men ............ > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 12:18:57 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Joni, then and now Yes Andrew, keep posting. I tried to take it away from the Iraq thing with my Grassroots question but had no takers and then, against my better judgment, even posted on the mess myself. Love the Joni threads and your point of view is as valid as anyone else's, and always good to read. And I love it when folks defend our Joan. Bob seems kind of scary at first but he's not really. lol. mack. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:24:40 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni, then and now Grassroots In a message dated 4/1/2003 1:18:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, courtandspark@earthlink.net writes: > I tried to take it away from the Iraq thing with > my Grassroots question but had no takers and then, against > my better > judgment, even posted on the mess myself. And you know, I meant to respond on that Grassroots post, and it just slipped away from me. Let's Live For Today, Midnight Confessions, they were great songwriters and every time I hear those hits today they remain timelessly exciting. Once again we are in agreement, Mack. Scary? Moi? :~) Bob NP: Joni, "Edith & The Kingpin" 9/7/79 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 13:42:41 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: njc I Feel I'm Fixin to Die The Fish Cheer & I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die Rag Gimme an F! F! Gimme an U! I! Gimme an C! S! Gimme an K! H! What's that spell ? FUCK! What's that spell ? FUCK! What's that spell ? FUCK! Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men, Uncle Sam needs your help again. He's got himself in a terrible jam Way down yonder in Vietnam So put down your books and pick up a gun, We're gonna have a whole lotta fun. And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for ? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. Well, come on generals, let's move fast; Your big chance has come at last. Gotta go out and get those reds  The only good commie is the one who's dead And you know that peace can only be won When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come. And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for ? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why Whoopee! we're all gonna die. Huh! Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow, Why man, this is war au-go-go. There's plenty good money to be made By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade, Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb, They drop it on the Viet Cong. And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for ? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam. And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why Whoopee! we're all gonna die. Well, come on mothers throughout the land, Pack your boys off to Vietnam. Come on fathers, don't hesitate, Send 'em off before it's too late. Be the first one on your block To have your boy come home in a box. And it's one, two, three What are we fighting for ? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Vietnam. And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:38:12 +0000 From: emil thompson Subject: Sarah Maclachlan version of Blue I heard that this verion of the song 'Blue' was not on the US release of the album 'Fumbling towards ecstacy' is this true, I have the Uk one here and it's a beautiful track and album. Also re STAS after reading David Crosby's biography he spoke of the mess he made of the production on that albume and how they had to strip away all the extra mics on the piano but even so it sounds like it is recorded under a belljar. I think it sounds ok but I know what he means. best emil uk ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #207 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)