From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #204 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 31 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 204 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- napoli njc [colin ] Re: true or false? - NJC & radio content [Chris Marshall ] Re: NJC versus VLJC [Bobsart48@aol.com] RE: JMDL P2P ["theodore" ] NJC Re: JMDL P2P [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Song to a Seagull [Bob Shemkovitz ] Re: Song to a Seagull [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Song to a Seagull [Jerry Notaro ] early joni [twoshoes@sasktel.net] Re: NJC versus VLJC [colin ] FW: Song to a Seagull ["theodore" ] pat riots (sjc) ["Marianne Rizzo" ] Joni, then and now [Little Bird ] RE: Joni, then and now ["theodore" ] re: sisotowbell lane ["mia ortlieb" ] RE: Iraq-NJC ["blonde in the bleachers" ] Re: sisotowbell lane [Little Bird ] RE: true or false? - NJC & political content ["theodore" ] RE: Joni, then and now ["theodore" ] Re: Joni, then and now [Murphycopy@aol.com] MARCH 30!!!!!! NJC ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni, then and now [Murphycopy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:36:50 +0100 From: colin Subject: napoli njc for those who like to know: just over 8 weeks ago, we had our kitchen floor tiled. Despite strict instructions to the builder, he ignored them and let Harvey, my then 8mth old boy, out with Napoli('becasue he was crying!'). Napoli was in season. In 30 seconds, Napoli and Harvey lost their virginity. Last night,, 6 days early, Napoli gave birth to 5 boys and 3 girls. The largest litter i have had. All are a good size and doing well. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:39:54 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: true or false? - NJC & radio content On Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 02:33 Europe/London, chuty001 wrote: > From personal experience I can tell you these frequencies are quite > regulated and monitored. You must have a licence to boot. A moderately > beefed up CB can effectively overpower radio and cause extreme > interference > to television over an entire city if broadcast from the right place. > This I > also know from personal experience. Though very easy to trace where > it's > coming from a matter of minutes and they're at your door. I said "effectively" unregulated for a reason... while the FCC regulates use of frequency spectra like this, the fact is that a very large no. of people are now licensed to use it. That makes turning round and denying people access to what is a shared, all-pervasive, and effectively ubiquitous communication medium effectively impossible. I know a bit about the radio side of thing, but am no expert - not claiming to be - I'm a wireless networking junkie, not a ham/CB radio junkie :) - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 01:56:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: true or false? - NJC & political content bob i couldn't verify your friends email as either true or false on snopes or urgend legends...a google search turned up the following related information: 1) By William Jackson http://educate-yourself.org/cn/redalertcode20mar03.shtml March 20, 2003 The war with Iraq has increased the risk of a terrorist attack on America, said former Sen. Gary Hart, who now is co-chairman of the Commission on National Security for the 21st Century. Dont be surprised if in the coming hours or days we go to Code Red, Hart said this morning in Washington. It is almost inevitable. 2) http://educate-yourself.org/cn/njgestapohintsofmartiallaw21mar03.shtml March 21, 2003 Red Alert? Stay home, await word Sunday, March 16, 2003 By Tom Baldwin, Gennett State Bureau Trenton, NJ If the nation excalates to "red alert," which is the highest in the color-coded readiness against terror, you will be assumed by authorities to be the enemy if you so much as venture outside your home, the state's anti-terror czar says. 3) From the ACLU web site March 21, 2003 ACLU Blasts NJ Terrorism Chief's Comments NEWARK - The American Civil Liberties Union of New Jersey today severely criticized a high-level state official for saying that in the event of a "red alert" security level, "You literally are staying at home: What we're saying is, 'Everybody sit down.' If you are left standing, you are probably a terrorist." "What that statement describes is essentially martial law," said Deborah Jacobs, Executive Director of the ACLU of New Jersey. "If ever necessary," Jacobs added, "such extreme actions could only be justified in exceptionally limited situations where an investigation could pose a direct danger to the public in a restricted geographic area." http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12160&c=206 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 01:57:04 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: more from aclu NJC Documents Show Ashcroft is Bypassing Courts With New Spy Powers, ACLU Says March 24, 2003 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE NEW YORK - Documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union suggest that the Attorney General is aggressively wielding a disturbing power that - without the approval of a judge - allows the government to force banks, Internet service providers, telephone companies, and credit agencies to turn over their customers records... Other recently obtained documents confirm that: The FBI is conducting wiretaps and secret searches in criminal investigations without complying with the usual probable cause requirements; The government has begun to use an extraordinarily broad surveillance provision that could be used to force libraries and bookstores to report on their patrons and customers reading habits; The FBI is aggressively using pen registers and trap-and-trace devices that allow them to track phone calls and emails; The government plans to use its new surveillance powers not only against suspected terrorists but also against ordinary Americans and permanent residents. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:00:17 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC versus VLJC I am replying to the main list on this, not to the Joni only list. This is a relatively modest issue for me, a Joni only subscriber, but recently there have been several posts - most recently and notably Kay's - which read VLJC and went to the Joni only list. On the way to erroneously ferret out the Joni content, I realized that this was dominantly political content etc. And, I got to start my day by being informed by someone else that people like me (nothing personal - I realize that) are more hopeless uninformed than we realized we were (and we do realize we are) by someone who I suspect is just as hopelessly uninformed by his or her brand of propoganda. It would not be difficult (and it would be so much more respectful) to post the first 12 paragraphs in such a post as NJC, and send the last paragraph to the full list, would it ? Thanks, Bob S. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 05:47:24 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: JMDL P2P This rocks! - -----Original Message----- From: Les Irvin [mailto:ljirvin@jmdl.com] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 11:17 PM To: theodore@buckfush.org; phaskins@swbell.net; kellerfrau@gmx.de; lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com; dleong99@wideopenwest.com; michael@thepazgroup.com; SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: JMDL P2P Ladies and gentlemen... Welcome to the next generation of music trading - the JMDL p2p file sharing hub. Thanks for your early interest. You... 1) Are able to install and configure software, and know the intricacies of burning your own CDs. 2) Have a broadband, always-on connection to the Internet. (You can install and connect on a dial-up but it'll take you 6 months to download a CD and you'll have to give up your telephone :-) 3) Are willing to share music as well as receive it. 4) Have a gig or 2 (at least) of extra hard drive space. Here's how to get started (very, very briefly... contact me with questions): Pick up the "DirectConnect" file-sharing software here: Windows users: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dcplusplus/DCPlusPlus-0.24.exe?downlo ad Mac users need to grab a slightly different version here: http://www.networkingfiles.com/FileShar/Directconnect.htm Initially, during the install, you'll need to choose a nickname. Look to the "settings" option to configure this. OK... fire up the program and set up a new "favorite" hub (CTRL-F) that points to this address: jmdl.no-ip.info:411 Click "connect" and with a bit of luck... you are on. You should now be able to browse user's files and download them (right-click on a user's name for these options). There's a user named "TheBoss" who will almost always be on. In his "documents" directory is a file named "++SHARING++". Download it! It's essential and will answer many of your questions. As you probably know, p2p CDs are usually offered in the compressed (but lossless) format of SHN or FLAC. Once downloaded, you use freeware (available at the hub) to convert them back to WAV files, which you then burn to CD. There are a number of things online now, with more to come on a consistent basis. If there is something you are looking for and I have it, let me know. I'd be happy to provide it. The hope is that as people join up and download they will, in turn, offer shows as well. Thanks again for your interest and for helping me test this. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. Write me with questions or use the chat window at the hub (if I'm there)... Have fun! Les ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:54:39 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: JMDL P2P In a message dated 3/31/2003 8:47:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, theodore@buckfush.org writes: > There's a user named "TheBoss" who will almost always be on. Bruce Springsteen is participating?? Cool! ;~) Thanks in advance for keeping us on the cutting edge, Les...I'm not broadband yet, but will be before April's end. Bob NP: Joni, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" Lenox, MA 8/21/79 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:33:47 -0500 From: Bob Shemkovitz Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull I was glad to find the recent posts from Andrew, Kate & Kerry in this morning's digests - it's nice to be reminded that there are others out there who find this album so meaningful. Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal throughout. There is such a timeless quality to these songs - in spite of all the references to 20th century artifacts like drip dry and light bills and meter maids and neon nights, I always have the sense that these songs could have been written a thousand years ago. They're like a voice from days gone by, echoing through the years and finding us in the here and now, giving voice to the eternal needs and desires and turmoils of the human condition. I know what you mean about goosebumps, Kate, I often have that response to this album. The emotional and psychic content of these songs strike so deep a chord. The beauty of The Dawntreader, the despair of Marcie, the idylls of Michael from Mountains, the aching and longing of the title song, every emotion from the joyful to the bittersweet, it's all so heartfelt and intense, and Joni conveys it all so well. And just on a purely aesthetic level, the poetry of her lyrics is so far beyond anything I've ever heard from a "pop" artist, even by Dylan, Lennon, Chrissie, or Neil, it just puts Joni in a category all her own. This album is one of those precious gifts to be grateful for. And I agree with you, Andrew - listening to it on a beautiful spring day is a highly recommended! About 60 hours to go for Heart & Mind, and I'm jonesing with the rest of you... Bob in CT Fold your fleet wings, I have brought some dreams to share A dream that you love someone A dream that the wars are done A dream that you tell no one but they grey sea - They'll say that you're crazy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:45:44 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull In a message dated 3/31/2003 9:33:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, bshemkovitz@bozzutos.com writes: > Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. It is an amazing debut...as I've said before, I was a latecomer to it as I didn't get it until after I joined up with this group in '98. I was thinking that it was all going to be in Joni's "Helium" voice, so I was pleasantly surprised in "I Had A King" when she sang the word "brown" in a deep, rich alto. I loved it all from listen #1 with the exception of "Pirate Of Penance", which I still think is a pretty weak inclusion, especially when she had so many songs in her (still unreleased) collection that were superior. Bob NP: Joni, "Furry Sings The Blues" 8/21/79 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:46:54 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull I've always found it sad that Joni herself despairs this part of her career, referring to it as her helium voice period. It was the voice of youth, beauty, hope, and filled with the joy of life like no other from its time. Jerry Bob Shemkovitz wrote: >I was glad to find the recent posts from Andrew, Kate & Kerry in this >morning's digests - it's nice to be reminded that there are others out there >who find this album so meaningful. > >Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal >throughout. > >There is such a timeless quality to these songs - in spite of all the >references to 20th century artifacts like drip dry and light bills and meter >maids and neon nights, I always have the sense that these songs could have >been written a thousand years ago. They're like a voice from days gone by, >echoing through the years and finding us in the here and now, giving voice >to the eternal needs and desires and turmoils of the human condition. > >I know what you mean about goosebumps, Kate, I often have that response to >this album. The emotional and psychic content of these songs strike so deep >a chord. The beauty of The Dawntreader, the despair of Marcie, the idylls of >Michael from Mountains, the aching and longing of the title song, every >emotion from the joyful to the bittersweet, it's all so heartfelt and >intense, and Joni conveys it all so well. > >And just on a purely aesthetic level, the poetry of her lyrics is so far >beyond anything I've ever heard from a "pop" artist, even by Dylan, Lennon, >Chrissie, or Neil, it just puts Joni in a category all her own. This album >is one of those precious gifts to be grateful for. And I agree with you, >Andrew - listening to it on a beautiful spring day is a highly recommended! > >About 60 hours to go for Heart & Mind, and I'm jonesing with the rest of >you... > >Bob in CT > >Fold your fleet wings, I have brought some dreams to share >A dream that you love someone >A dream that the wars are done >A dream that you tell no one but they grey sea - >They'll say that you're crazy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:22:47 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: early joni > From: "Kerry Berghoff" > Subject: Song to a Seagull > > I would have to agree with Little Bird. I absolutely love Joni's early work, > the clarity of the sound, the innocence and newness of her sound. I regularly > play these early treats, and I'm glad someone else has been enjoying them, > too! I've "discovered" them only recently, when I played J's albums from One to the Latest in order to make a tape sampling for a friend. J's first four albums are stunning and so "clean" and are getting played around here quite a bit. And my friend is going out to buy more Joni CDs. Heh Heh Heh My heinous plan worked. There must be something in the air, because last time I went to Saskatoon, my closest friend had purchased a Joni CD and was actually playing it several times when I walked into her house. We were roomies back in the late '70s and I played so much Joni that my friend couldn't stand her. And now this! Weird. But wonderful. Kate du Nord - -- http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:23:41 +0100 From: colin Subject: Re: NJC versus VLJC I agree with you Bob. the only heading is NJC. VLJC or SJC etc are unnessary and ultimately meaningless. The fliter only works with NJC. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:36:50 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: FW: Song to a Seagull I just got these songs yesterday. I like clouds and songs to a seagull. I tend to like all the earlier work groups or artists do. Joni is no exception. Songs to a seagull is great, her voice and guitar playing is unrivaled. The fiddle and the drum! Oh my god this is the greatest. I like Nathan La Franeer. No one was doing stuff like this back then or even now. She reminds of british mod psyche groups like Fairfield Parlour, or early Syd Barrett, they were most likely influenced by her. This goes beyond folk or folk rock it's truly poetry in motion. I like songs to aging children, roses blue, gallery, I had a king, I used to go and see jewel kilcher at a little coffee house in pacific beach for free, every Thursday at the inner change. I watched the place get busier and busier, all of sudden there were people in suits and then jewel got signed. Joni blows her away, just flat smokes anyone I've heard try to play acoustic folk in the last twenty years. It really takes balls as a performer to be that unique and sing out that strongly in such a weird, haunting way, and she ties everything together and makes it work. I really had just heard her "hits" before. I joined this list after hearing her version of Woodstock for the first time, such a powerful, piercing, work, and, really one of those things that really puts the world in perspective for you. I don't like the CSN version the lyric is garbled and their guitar work stinks ... anyway... I don't understand why nash ever left the hollies, look through any window, bus stop, carrie ann, and the hollies drummer is a genius. Just my opinion. Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:47 AM To: Bob Shemkovitz Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull I've always found it sad that Joni herself despairs this part of her career, referring to it as her helium voice period. It was the voice of youth, beauty, hope, and filled with the joy of life like no other from its time. Jerry Bob Shemkovitz wrote: >I was glad to find the recent posts from Andrew, Kate & Kerry in this >morning's digests - it's nice to be reminded that there are others out there >who find this album so meaningful. > >Song to a Seagull is a thing of rare beauty. Joni is absolutely ethereal >throughout. > >There is such a timeless quality to these songs - in spite of all the >references to 20th century artifacts like drip dry and light bills and meter >maids and neon nights, I always have the sense that these songs could have >been written a thousand years ago. They're like a voice from days gone by, >echoing through the years and finding us in the here and now, giving voice >to the eternal needs and desires and turmoils of the human condition. > >I know what you mean about goosebumps, Kate, I often have that response to >this album. The emotional and psychic content of these songs strike so deep >a chord. The beauty of The Dawntreader, the despair of Marcie, the idylls of >Michael from Mountains, the aching and longing of the title song, every >emotion from the joyful to the bittersweet, it's all so heartfelt and >intense, and Joni conveys it all so well. > >And just on a purely aesthetic level, the poetry of her lyrics is so far >beyond anything I've ever heard from a "pop" artist, even by Dylan, Lennon, >Chrissie, or Neil, it just puts Joni in a category all her own. This album >is one of those precious gifts to be grateful for. And I agree with you, >Andrew - listening to it on a beautiful spring day is a highly recommended! > >About 60 hours to go for Heart & Mind, and I'm jonesing with the rest of >you... > >Bob in CT > >Fold your fleet wings, I have brought some dreams to share >A dream that you love someone >A dream that the wars are done >A dream that you tell no one but they grey sea - >They'll say that you're crazy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:46:33 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: pat riots (sjc) Patriots, Not sure? In your "search for truth and beauty," your "whole life though," when half the world maybe has you somewhat confused, what do you do??? - --------> Stick to your basic morals of wrong and right. And, try to take a stand. Inaction can be complicity. <---------- With Love, Marianne >Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 18:35:53 -0800 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Subject: teddy says njc >Theodore Roosevelt said: "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiently or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else."< --------------- _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:06:36 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Joni, then and now I think one of the reasons Joni distances herself from her earlier work goes back to this point she always makes about playing "ingenue roles" - comparing her early days to the early roles that actresses play. I think she must get very tired of being held up to that standard, particularly when she sees so much growth in her work since then: "An actress is not expected to continue to play her ingenue roles. I've written roles for myself to grow into gracefully, but there is no 'growing into gracefully' in the pop world." - Joni She's expressed frustration with fans and with record executives who constantly want her to be that old Joni. But imagine Joni singing songs like Sisotowbell Lane today? It just wouldn't work. It would be almost ridiculous. Her voice has changed, her style has changed, her ideas have changed. I think she compared it to people wanting to keep her in training wheels when she's capable of riding a 15 speed bike. She also mentions in the new documentary how the day after she won two Grammys for 1994's Turbulent Indigo a local paper did an article called "Grammy Winners - Then and Now" and Joni was in the "then" category. This is THE DAY AFTER she had just won two Grammys in the 1990s - does that not make her an "artist of the 90s?" I can see why she gets frustrated with constantly being called "that folk singer from the 70s" when she has such fantastic albums that are leaps and bounds from that body of work. I'm glad we have Joni's first four albums. I'm overjoyed! But I'm also glad we have Hissing, DJRD, Mingus, Night Ride Home, Turbulent Indigo and Both Sides Now. There have been so many versions of Joni, so many musical incarnations, that I really feel so lucky to have it all! - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:33:14 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Joni, then and now I haven't heard the later stuff yet, there is a great body of work there, send me some direction i.e. song list. Artists see their work from one perspective. My own stuff is way different from what originally crept from the garage when I was 17; however that style is more popular today than it was then. If those are training wheels I'm falling off my trike! Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Little Bird Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 8:07 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni, then and now I think one of the reasons Joni distances herself from her earlier work goes back to this point she always makes about playing "ingenue roles" - comparing her early days to the early roles that actresses play. I think she must get very tired of being held up to that standard, particularly when she sees so much growth in her work since then: "An actress is not expected to continue to play her ingenue roles. I've written roles for myself to grow into gracefully, but there is no 'growing into gracefully' in the pop world." - Joni She's expressed frustration with fans and with record executives who constantly want her to be that old Joni. But imagine Joni singing songs like Sisotowbell Lane today? It just wouldn't work. It would be almost ridiculous. Her voice has changed, her style has changed, her ideas have changed. I think she compared it to people wanting to keep her in training wheels when she's capable of riding a 15 speed bike. She also mentions in the new documentary how the day after she won two Grammys for 1994's Turbulent Indigo a local paper did an article called "Grammy Winners - Then and Now" and Joni was in the "then" category. This is THE DAY AFTER she had just won two Grammys in the 1990s - does that not make her an "artist of the 90s?" I can see why she gets frustrated with constantly being called "that folk singer from the 70s" when she has such fantastic albums that are leaps and bounds from that body of work. I'm glad we have Joni's first four albums. I'm overjoyed! But I'm also glad we have Hissing, DJRD, Mingus, Night Ride Home, Turbulent Indigo and Both Sides Now. There have been so many versions of Joni, so many musical incarnations, that I really feel so lucky to have it all! - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:00:21 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: sisotowbell lane Bob wrote: "Sisotowbell Lane is an interesting song...I wonder if it's about a place that Joni actually experienced, or a place she imagined. I mean, I know the NAME is fictitious, just wondering what she's referencing." I alway thought that Joni was referencing a time or a place for pregnant unwed mothers -- imagined or real, I do not know. The biggest clue that I see is the repeated reference to "rocking chairs"... and the line that "Noah is fixing a pump in the rain, he brings us no shame, we always knew that he always knew" indicates that this man, Noah, is not judgemental of the character's out-of-wedlock pregnancy. Also, the last line "we wait for you" indicates to me that the character is just waiting out the time until the baby is born. This is such a lovely song, with such unique guitar fingering. Mia - who is "waiting" anxiously for Wednesday to come to view the PBS American Masters series. _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:55:21 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: RE: Iraq-NJC So what! They both equally dislike the United States. Nice email address by the way, if you lived elsewhere, say Iraq, you wouldn't be given the freedom to voice your own opinion or oppose your own government. War with Iraq was inevitable, but to listen to all of the people who oppose this war you would think that Saddam is being persecuted when in reality he is the persecutor. Is the left so willing to oppose the war that they turn a blind eye toward the human atrocities that are committed by Saddam? >From: "theodore" >To: "'blonde in the bleachers'" >CC: >Subject: RE: Iraq-NJC >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:02:56 -0800 > >I've heard bin-laden does not like saddam. Iran and Syria are deemed >bigger terrorism threats. Even if iraq was directly responsible for >9/11. I do not believe war is the answer. Violence is a cycle. To be the >moral leaders of the world we need to be just that. As far as I can tell >bush has made us all terrorists and murderers. I don't believe in the >death penalty either for the same reason. Two wrongs don't make it >right. I think that if one of those people that died on 9/11 could come >back they would say "we've got to have peace." >Love, >Ted > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of >blonde in the bleachers >Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:52 AM >To: lacyslvs@juno.com; joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Iraq-NJC > > > >You can guess they didn't help, but you can't be sure. > > >From: Ruth Davis >Reply-To: Ruth Davis >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: >Iraq-sjc (little) >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:18:41 GMT > >While some of >the discussion is focusing on Iraq, I'd like to share the following with >you all. I worked Joni in at the end, although I had to alter her lyric >slightly: > >ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE WAR >This war sets a dangerous >precedent. Iraq was not behind 9/11. We have no reason to believe there >is an Al Qaeda link to Saddam Hussein. While Saddam is a brutal >dictator, >others exist in the world today. Will we go to war to depose all of >them? >You dont just march into a sovereign nation, no matter how corrupt, and >overthrow its government. That is for the people of that country to do >on >their own, if they can. > >The potential backlash of a war with Iraq is >a >very real threat. Iraq, or groups sympathetic to Iraq, could easily >initiate a retaliatory attack either against our allies in the Gulf >region, or else here in the U.S. Who knows how many terrorists remain >embedded in the U.S. Or, Iraq could sell its remaining chemical and >biological weapons to various rogue terrorist groups. > >We have lost >the >support of many of our allies  France, Germany, etc. We are tarnishing >the already weakened status of the UN. We are provoking France, Germany >and Russia to struggle to assert themselves to keep us in check. Our >image of fairness, of upholding international law, is tarnished as well. >We are also refusing to face the real major cause of tension in the >Middle East, namely, the Israeli/Palestinian situation. > >Fighting this >war will be costly. The $75 billion Bush asked Congress for is just the >first installment. Our economy is already weak now. The war will be a >constant drain on our resources. That is exactly the thing that will >please Osama bin Laden (remember him?): A constant drip, drip, drip of >our resources dragging us down until we all go down the drain. >Certainly, >wherever he is, he must be pleased that we have launched our war against >Iraq. > >Occupying and reforming Iraq, presuming we win, will be even >more expensive than the war itself. Our presence in the region will be a >constant thorn in the side of all the other Arab nations, who will be >angered by our arrogance, interference and pride in believing we can >dictate to another country the shape their government should take. You >cant take democracy and shove it down peoples throats like a pill. >Plus, democracy here in the U.S. is being eroded now. > >For additional >study, check out this website: www.911pi.com > >******************************************************************* > >When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a >European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is >violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. >When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it >breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not >belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or >partial >system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind. >--J. >Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp.51-52 > >Like a barbed wire >fence, strung tight, strung tense, every notion we subscribe to, every >pretense, is just a Borderline > -- Joni Mitchell > >One love, one >heart, >lets get together and well feel all right. > --Bob Marley > > >Ruth in >Richmond > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 10:17:17 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: new policy from TSA re: instruments on flights NJC good news for those flying to jonifest or other musicians flying with instruments: http://www.local1000.com/carryon.html AFM wins right to carry on instruments The AFM has negotiated with the Transportation Safety Administration (TSA) the right for musicians to carry on their instruments on airline flights. Please download and print the document here and be prepared to show this to security personnel should there be a problem. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:27:57 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: RT, STP, NJC? (was Re: more (male) joni covers) In a message dated 3/31/2003 1:04:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: > Lucky for Laurent he was able to see RT in person also. That makes all > the difference in appreciating RT. He's at his best in concert. Amen to that! I STILL can't believe that I caught him live & upclose at Greenville's Handlebar, and that the opener (Amy Correia) was also compelling. Richard's ability to think on his feet, and his playing on the upper frets of his guitar are unparalleled. Which is not to short-sell his studio work...I spun Mock Tudor last Friday driving to Columbia, and was again reminded of how excellent it is, and how excited I am for his new one! > > Re STP, I'd thought drugs were involved somehow in their > non-appearance. Yeah, that's pretty much a given. Weiland's reliability was pretty slim at this time. Bob NP: Joni, "Hejira" Oklahoma City, 8/13/79 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:31:07 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane In a message dated 3/31/2003 12:00:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, hvnphun16@hotmail.com writes: > Also, the last line "we wait for you" indicates to me that > the character is > just waiting out the time until the baby is born. Boy, that seems so obvious after hearing it that I feel like an idiot for not thinking about it. It also makes sense that Sisotowbell stands for "Somehow in spite of trouble ours will be ever lasting love", the "trouble" being the process of being born into a single-parent home. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:39:09 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now In a message dated 3/31/2003 11:06:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > Her voice has changed, her style has > changed, her ideas have changed. I think she compared > it to people wanting to keep her in training wheels > when she's capable of riding a 15 speed bike. While I agree with her logic, I find it humorous that after she paraded this quote around in interviews after TTT, her next project was a collection of "ingenue roles" (BSN) and then her NEXT project was to "jukebox" herself, going back and reworking her previously recorded songs, even back to her first record! It would seem that she's saying one thing & doing another, although I'm sure she would rationalize her way around the question. In any event, I don't intend it as a criticism, merely as an observation. Bob NP: Don's Solo, 8/13/79 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:53:34 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane Mr. Muller writes: << It also makes sense that Sisotowbell stands for "Somehow in spite of trouble ours will be ever lasting love", the "trouble" being the process of being born into a single-parent home. >> Me -- DUH! -- too! Plus the term "in trouble" was used to describe a pregnant, unmarried woman in those days. I haven't felt so stupid since, well "Little Green!" Thanks, Mia! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:58:10 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: true or false? - NJC & political content Thanks to all who calmed me down regarding my friend's (latest) misinformation. Now, does anyone have any idea what I can do with a case of duct tape and 10,000 square feet of plastic sheeting? (Don't go for the obvious retort, Muller.) Paranoia. It'll destroy ya. Take care, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:10:02 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: true or false? - NJC & political content In a message dated 3/31/2003 1:58:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy writes: > Now, does anyone have any idea what I can do with a case of > duct tape and 10,000 square feet of plastic sheeting? > (Don't go for the > obvious retort, Muller.) OK, here's the not-so-obvious one: "Oh, I could use a case of tape, And I would still have plastic sheet, I would still have plastic sheet" :~D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:22:10 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Iraq-NJC - -----Original Message----- From: theodore [mailto:theodore@buckfush.org] Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:22 AM To: 'blonde in the bleachers' Subject: RE: Iraq-NJC Do you so long to justify killing babies that you failed to even read my post? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of blonde in the bleachers Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 9:55 AM To: theodore@buckfush.org Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Iraq-NJC So what! They both equally dislike the United States. Nice email address by the way, if you lived elsewhere, say Iraq, you wouldn't be given the freedom to voice your own opinion or oppose your own government. War with Iraq was inevitable, but to listen to all of the people who oppose this war you would think that Saddam is being persecuted when in reality he is the persecutor. Is the left so willing to oppose the war that they turn a blind eye toward the human atrocities that are committed by Saddam? >From: "theodore" >To: "'blonde in the bleachers'" >CC: >Subject: RE: Iraq-NJC >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:02:56 -0800 > >I've heard bin-laden does not like saddam. Iran and Syria are deemed >bigger terrorism threats. Even if iraq was directly responsible for >9/11. I do not believe war is the answer. Violence is a cycle. To be the >moral leaders of the world we need to be just that. As far as I can tell >bush has made us all terrorists and murderers. I don't believe in the >death penalty either for the same reason. Two wrongs don't make it >right. I think that if one of those people that died on 9/11 could come >back they would say "we've got to have peace." >Love, >Ted > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of >blonde in the bleachers >Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:52 AM >To: lacyslvs@juno.com; joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Iraq-NJC > > > >You can guess they didn't help, but you can't be sure. > > >From: Ruth Davis >Reply-To: Ruth Davis >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: >Iraq-sjc (little) >Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:18:41 GMT > >While some of >the discussion is focusing on Iraq, I'd like to share the following with >you all. I worked Joni in at the end, although I had to alter her lyric >slightly: > >ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE WAR >This war sets a dangerous >precedent. Iraq was not behind 9/11. We have no reason to believe there >is an Al Qaeda link to Saddam Hussein. While Saddam is a brutal >dictator, >others exist in the world today. Will we go to war to depose all of >them? >You dont just march into a sovereign nation, no matter how corrupt, and >overthrow its government. That is for the people of that country to do >on >their own, if they can. > >The potential backlash of a war with Iraq is >a >very real threat. Iraq, or groups sympathetic to Iraq, could easily >initiate a retaliatory attack either against our allies in the Gulf >region, or else here in the U.S. Who knows how many terrorists remain >embedded in the U.S. Or, Iraq could sell its remaining chemical and >biological weapons to various rogue terrorist groups. > >We have lost >the >support of many of our allies  France, Germany, etc. We are tarnishing >the already weakened status of the UN. We are provoking France, Germany >and Russia to struggle to assert themselves to keep us in check. Our >image of fairness, of upholding international law, is tarnished as well. >We are also refusing to face the real major cause of tension in the >Middle East, namely, the Israeli/Palestinian situation. > >Fighting this >war will be costly. The $75 billion Bush asked Congress for is just the >first installment. Our economy is already weak now. The war will be a >constant drain on our resources. That is exactly the thing that will >please Osama bin Laden (remember him?): A constant drip, drip, drip of >our resources dragging us down until we all go down the drain. >Certainly, >wherever he is, he must be pleased that we have launched our war against >Iraq. > >Occupying and reforming Iraq, presuming we win, will be even >more expensive than the war itself. Our presence in the region will be a >constant thorn in the side of all the other Arab nations, who will be >angered by our arrogance, interference and pride in believing we can >dictate to another country the shape their government should take. You >cant take democracy and shove it down peoples throats like a pill. >Plus, democracy here in the U.S. is being eroded now. > >For additional >study, check out this website: www.911pi.com > >******************************************************************* > >When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a >European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is >violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. >When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it >breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not >belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or >partial >system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind. >--J. >Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp.51-52 > >Like a barbed wire >fence, strung tight, strung tense, every notion we subscribe to, every >pretense, is just a Borderline > -- Joni Mitchell > >One love, one >heart, >lets get together and well feel all right. > --Bob Marley > > >Ruth in >Richmond > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- - - > >Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:30:37 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: sisotowbell lane I like the logic about waiting for the baby to be born but it doesn't quite fit the verse. All of the "you's" in that verse refer to, what seems to be, a fully grown adult who goes back and forth from city to country life: "Come back to the stars...We'll lend you the car...we wait for you..." To me, the waiting has always implied a family member waiting for one of their own to return to Sisotowbell Lane, having gone to the city - that fits with her concept of Part 1 and Part 2. Perhaps the "trouble" in Sisotowbell refers to the distance between two lovers. Also, the rocking chair reference doesn't quite fit the pregnancy theme either, only because it seems to be used in rotation: "Each of us rocks his share." Somehow the idea of a fictional world of pregnant mothers waiting in rocking chairs for their kids to be born doesn't seem like the crux of this song to me. If that were the case, wouldn't it be "rocks HER share?" I think it's just a vision of idealism. Joni, a born and bred country girl, going back to the peacefulness of country life after her romps in the city where she obviously perceived a healthy dose of cynicism, personified by Nathan La Franeer, who took her to the airport to leave the city. This is the song just before Sisotowbell, heightening the contrast between city/country life. Things move at a slower pace in the country, the pace of a rocking chair. Noah, to me, has always represented someone who would, by city standards, be seen as shameful. Perhaps he is mentally slow or just a very simple, honest man with simple values. In this ideal world he brings the families of Sisotowbell Lane no shame. He always knew he was welcome there and that that is where he belongs. So, that's my take on it: just a song about an ideal landscape and an ideal lifestyle. I like the idea of Mia's pregnancy themes, though. I had never thought of that before. Joni's songs are always so full of possibilities! - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:31:34 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: true or false? - NJC & political content - -----Original Message----- Paranoia. It'll destroy ya. If the people who are out to get you don't destroy you first!(a joke) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:35:38 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni, then and now > It would seem that she's saying one thing & doing > another, although I'm sure she would rationalize her > way around the question. Yes and no - I see what you're saying about her re-visiting her old songs on Travelogue but I think the styles are different enough to warrant some element of change. Some of the reviews of the Both Sides Now concerts on JM.com still had people complaining that she didn't play her guitar or sing Big Yellow Taxi; they criticized her for not being that willowy, wispy Joni of days gone by. I think that's what Joni resents. - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:43:18 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Joni, then and now Kind of like when Public Image Limited toured and all they did was dance in front of their video. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Little Bird Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 11:36 AM To: SCJoniGuy@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Joni, then and now > It would seem that she's saying one thing & doing > another, although I'm sure she would rationalize her > way around the question. Yes and no - I see what you're saying about her re-visiting her old songs on Travelogue but I think the styles are different enough to warrant some element of change. Some of the reviews of the Both Sides Now concerts on JM.com still had people complaining that she didn't play her guitar or sing Big Yellow Taxi; they criticized her for not being that willowy, wispy Joni of days gone by. I think that's what Joni resents. - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:53:56 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now Andrew writes: << they criticized her for not being that willowy, wispy Joni of days gone by. I think that's what Joni resents. >> And well she should! The complaints I heard from people leaving the Boston BSN performance in 2000 would have made her hair stand on end. Many of these people didn't come to see an artist perform, the were looking for an oldies show! Joni even had the audacity to smoke a gig on stage during her encore, which prompted one jerk to proclaim, "Now we know what happened to her voice!" Yeah, butts can do things to someone's voice, but so can 35 years! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:19:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: MARCH 30!!!!!! NJC my precious ones, yesterday was MICHAEL PAZ'S BIRTHDAY!!!! michael the beautiful, michael the straight-from-the-hip guy, i just got back to buenos aires today (spent a week in a nudist camp exhibiting my glory -- it's true!). no clothes, no outside world, no internet. so .......... H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y WILD ONE! everybody give michael the weird minor thingy now! love, wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:59:55 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni, then and now I wrote: << Joni even had the audacity to smoke a gig on stage >> Smoke a gig! Now that really sounds like a 60s/70s performance! Of course I meant "cig." --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #204 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)