From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #203 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, March 31 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 203 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- was Iraq-ish NJC noeww krishnamurti ["ron" ] NJC Support for the War ["Gillian Apter" ] RE: was Iraq-ish NJC noeww krishnamurti ["theodore" ] grassroots njc ["mack watson-bush" ] publishing / literary agents (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Song to a Seagull ["Kerry Berghoff" ] more (male) joni covers ["Laurent Olszer" ] Now that we have all done our one hand clapping routines ["Suzanne MarcAu] FW: FW: publishing / literary agents (njc) ["theodore" ] NJC Support for war ["Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" ] speaking of democracy VLJC [Kay Ashley ] Re: NJC Support for war [Catherine McKay ] Re: more (male) joni covers [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: speaking of democracy VLJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC Re: Joni In Fiction - A new one? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Song to a Seagull ["theodore" ] true or false? - NJC & political content [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: NJC Support for war ["Heather" ] Re: true or false? - NJC & political content [Chris Marshall ] RE: NJC Support for war ["theodore" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:08:26 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: was Iraq-ish NJC noeww krishnamurti hi >>>somebody wrote >>>>"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind. - - --J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp.51-52 " <<<<< well thats just not true. sounds good but its just bad logic. first off. where does the violence start? is it when i *call* myself something. if i *am* something without *calling* myself something does it mean i am not "violent"? wottabout a sense of identity? i am a male. i am pacifist. i am (kinda) christian. i am pacifist. i am anti war. i am a jonifan. i am not ashamed of being all of those things (and others). i am not being violent. i am not separating myself. i am identifying. nothing wrong with a sense of identity. the wrong is *not* in identifying with any particular group because of some aspect of your ethnicity/ religion/ morals/ preferences. its not even in believing that you are right in your convictions and others are wrong. its not even in attempting to *respectfully* persuade others to your point of view. its in perceiving that you are *better* because any one/combination of these factors. ron np - robbie robertson - the sound is fading (contact from the underworld of redboy - what a wonderful, hypnotic album) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:30:08 +0200 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: NJC Support for the War I'd like to thank those who wrote to me on this one It's interesting to see how antm-war protests have changed since the start of the war both in Spain, where I live, and Britain, where I am from. (Scotland). In Spain, around 4,5 million people throughout the country (despite what reuters said : 2 million) on the first march Feb 15th. The 2nd big march a month later was obviously depleted mainly because the government took absolutely NO HEED whatsoever of those voices, as if we had never said anything. so many are saying, what's the point? Everyone is questioning why Aznar is behind Blair and Bush on this: to get his photo in the paper next to the big boys? Many Spaniards are saying it's like the film "Bienvenido Mr. Marshall", a hilarious late 50's comedy about this little town in the middle of nowhere where, it's rumoured, the US President is going to visit. The whole town begin to prepare for Uncle Sam, the red carpet, the whole town decorated. They argue (Spaniards love to argue very vocally, rarely listening ot each other) about where to put what where, how big will the brass band be, who is to do what, etc. Then the big day comes. They see a long line of big cars coming up the hill. Everyone is out, waving flags, playing music... and the cars drive right through the town top speed and never stop. End of movie. I know no one is Spain for this war. Polls say its 91% against, and the protests still go on, but not like the first one. There is something organised every day though, in the city centres, in the local neighbourhoods (banging pots together, hanging white sheets out your window, etc), and this continual protest is very good. But the police have come down very hard on street protesters with truncheons and tear gas, and their have been a lot of sore heads and some with worse injuries. There is, of course, a thug element in those street marchers which is spoiling it for the others. Just young kids jumping on the bandwagon to burn cars, loot shops, smash shop windows. And now a lot of normal people don't want to be associated with them and stay at home. It's a shame. But Spain has no-one dying over there. In the United Kingdom, protest has drastically died down now that the bodies are beginning to come home, but at least there is dissent among the ruling party, unlike Spain.. Robin Cook, former labour foreign secretary and leader of the House of Commons has even called on Blair to bring the troops home, fearing another Vietnam situation. He fears it's going to get "very bloody". And there have been a few labour party member resignations over this. All of this though reminds of the words of Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men to do nothing." Peace Gill in madrid ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 05:59:38 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: was Iraq-ish NJC noeww krishnamurti I don't claim to understand Krishnamurti, in fact this is the first I've heard of him; however, I did study anthropology in college. When we study the "other," look at cultures or systems that are not ours, its easier to see how we separate ourselves. Its also easier to see how we are all alike. At its core the act of being something is based on a system of purity and pollution. Ritual behavior serves to purify us. These systems are arbitrary. The laws of kosher are a good example. For a long time people wanted to say well not eating pork was based on good sound thinking, because the pig carries trichinosis. An anthropologist named Mary Douglas refutes that explanation, called medical materialism. She shows that these laws are based on purity and pollution, the pig by virtue of the shape of the hoof is placed in the category of not being a pure animal, its seen as an abomination, same thing with shellfish. Shellfish by virtue of their strange looks are not clean to eat. Its just happenstance that these animals can also contain harmful organisms. The protein in a grub is the same as the protein in filet mignon; in our culture eating worms is gross, impure, you may wash out your mouth or even barf, in other cultures the cow is sacred. By placing ourselves in the us category it is necessary that we perform some sort of ritual, we need to assure ourselves that we are special, good, and right. And just as important to have society run we must assure others. Ervin Goffman wrote a book called "The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life." In it he goes through a lot of the ritual behavior we use to prepare our selves to deal with one another. Another book by the same guy is called "Stigma." Very interesting, it deals with how individuals in our society negotiate having some sort of stigma attached to themselves. Like me I am a convicted felon, not something you blurt out at job interviews. In order to kill we must be convinced that we are right, that god is on our side, indeed even to defend oneself. Indeed even in order to slaughter a chicken for dinner we need to say its ok god likes me better than this chicken so off with its tasty little head! There is nothing wrong with your sense of identity; however if you are truly seeking to understand mankind as this Krishna fellow suggests, better to try and lay all that aside. "I've heard you say many times that you're better than no one and no one is better than you. If you really believe that you know you've nothing to win and nothing to lose." Bob Dylan (To Ramona) I'm not trying to show you up, and my take on this could be way off the mark. A couple of people have had issue with this quote. I thought it was really thought provoking and rather harmless. Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of ron Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 12:08 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: was Iraq-ish NJC noeww krishnamurti hi >>>somebody wrote >>>>"When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind. - - - --J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp.51-52 " <<<<< well thats just not true. sounds good but its just bad logic. first off. where does the violence start? is it when i *call* myself something. if i *am* something without *calling* myself something does it mean i am not "violent"? wottabout a sense of identity? i am a male. i am pacifist. i am (kinda) christian. i am pacifist. i am anti war. i am a jonifan. i am not ashamed of being all of those things (and others). i am not being violent. i am not separating myself. i am identifying. nothing wrong with a sense of identity. the wrong is *not* in identifying with any particular group because of some aspect of your ethnicity/ religion/ morals/ preferences. its not even in believing that you are right in your convictions and others are wrong. its not even in attempting to *respectfully* persuade others to your point of view. its in perceiving that you are *better* because any one/combination of these factors. ron np - robbie robertson - the sound is fading (contact from the underworld of redboy - what a wonderful, hypnotic album) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:51:30 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Joni In Fiction - A new one? On March 10th, Bob Muller posted: "I guess this one goes under the "TV" section...a miniseries called "A Girl Thing". According to the ad: The soundtrack includes songs by Joni Mitchell and Chaka Khan (whose name is misspelled as Kahn in the credits). " You're right Bob. I rented "A Girl Thing" this weekend. It was a 4 part miniseries from Showtime. They play "A Case of You" (from BSN) during a VERY HOT HOT Love scene between Kate Capshaw and Elle McPherson. My glasses were fogging up and I wasn't wearing them. I got shivers down my spine as the two made such passionate love while ACOY played. The song fit this scene so well. They played Chaka's "Stronger Than Before" (which I *love*) during a slow dance scene between Kate and Elle. Then you hear part of ACOY again during a scene when Elle is contemplating her newly found sexuality. Lots of stars in this movie, and I enjoyed all 4 hours of it! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:35:15 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #201 --- Eryl B Davies wrote: > dsk wrote: > > > >So, obviously, to keep our (the US) lifestyle > going, we need A LOT of > >oil, as cheaply as possible. > > > How much research into renewable energy sources > would the cost of this war > have covered? > Not to mention AIDS/cancer/name-your-disease research and treatment; solutions to famine; homelessness; poverty and whatever else ails ya. Somehow these things are not a priority, but dropping billions on dropping bombs? Done in a flash. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:38:01 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: grassroots njc have transferred to the night shift after years of the day shift. = rather nice although the hours are somewhat hard to get used to, as is = not being in the mix of the craziness. while sitting in the car during = break time, smoking cigarettes, listened to another oldies station. = nothing here but hardish rock or oldies. nothing as wonderful as ksoul = in dallas, tx, that i used to get on rare occasions while visiting ft. = worth. hard to believe but the selection in sheboygan, wi, is even = less diverse than oblivion, tx. luckily, i do like oldies stations. as = sitting there, the grassroots were played. 'sooner or later' remember = that one? what a great tune. so easy to listen to, so fun. remember = sitting with my older sister marnita (as she supped on dr. pepper and = ate fritos, frequently rising to whirl about the room) watching american = bandstand way back when as the dance contest was taking place and that = was the tune they used for the dancers as they competed. heard a few = years ago that the grassroots never had a hit in england and remembered = the tunes that they shared with us and was perplexed as to how that = could be. sat there and wondered why and thought 'i'll ask the british = jmdler's tomorrow.' so i am? =20 mack np: gino vanelli-inconsolable man [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Ivy.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 08:40:44 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: publishing / literary agents (njc) Sorry for taking up the bandwidth... I'm looking to publish my manuscript about my experiences in clinical trials of cancer treatments. If anyone is or knows a literary agent who might be willing to handle such a work, I'd really appreciate letting me know. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:50:07 -0700 From: "Kerry Berghoff" Subject: Song to a Seagull I would have to agree with Little Bird. I absolutely love Joni's early work, the clarity of the sound, the innocence and newness of her sound. I regularly play these early treats, and I'm glad someone else has been enjoying them, too! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:46:48 +0100 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: more (male) joni covers Just came across 2 Joni covers by Richard Thompson (to whom I was turned on by Debra Shea), downloaded from the web: Black Crow (so-so) and a very interesting version of Woodstock. These are the 2 songs we perfom with a female singer. Now that he's heard them, our male bass player/singer wants to sing Joni too! Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 13:11:29 -0500 From: "Suzanne MarcAurele" Subject: Now that we have all done our one hand clapping routines (Which may account for Mitchell appearing in public as little as possible!!) Does anyone have any information on where, when or why she may or may not be giving a live performance somewhere this year? Hows about something related to her paintings? Please do not respond if it is a one hand clapping revisited! Thanks S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 10:57:52 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: FW: FW: publishing / literary agents (njc) Follow the link to three great tunes by an unsung folk duo known as Hill Of Beans (that's what these two amounted to). Sorry Anne, I tried, these are the only literary folk I know. As you can see they are no help. www.laterthanever.com/hillofbeans.html - -----Original Message----- From: Steve Moramarco [mailto:dj401k@gis.net] Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 10:42 AM To: theodore Subject: Re: FW: publishing / literary agents (njc) Nice thought, but dude, I don't have any info for her. Glad you're doing your part. Did I send you the link to the prophetic hill of beans songs written ten years ago> www.laterthanever.com/hillofbeans.html On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 01:32 PM, theodore wrote: > I get emails from joni mitchell > fans. I'm on a list. They're pretty cool people for the most part. What > can it hurt if you know someone that might be interested in this kind > of > writing. I'm just trying to do my part. It would be nice if you would > just try and trust people a little bit more Stephen. Really, its > exasperating. Who is she? Who are you? Who is any of us really? ... > kidding! How are you ? > Ted > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Moramarco [mailto:dj401k@gis.net] > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 9:49 AM > To: theodore > Subject: Re: FW: publishing / literary agents (njc) > > Who is she? > > On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 12:38 PM, theodore wrote: > >> Can you help this woman, maybe your mom or pop would know? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of >> anne@sandstrom.com >> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 8:41 AM >> To: joni@smoe.org >> Subject: publishing / literary agents (njc) >> >> Sorry for taking up the bandwidth... >> >> I'm looking to publish my manuscript about my >> experiences in clinical trials of cancer treatments. If >> anyone is or knows a literary agent who might be >> willing to handle such a work, I'd really appreciate >> letting me know. >> >> lots of love >> Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:21:20 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: was Iraq-ish NJC noeww krishnamurti hi ted thanks for the explanation. im still not convinced that we kill because we are different. i tend towards thinking that many/most people are inherently violent, and that being different is an excuse to exercise that violence. we dont kill because we are convinced that we are right. we kill because we dont want to be proved wrong. because we feel threatened. or is it perhaps just a mixture of the two???? too much for my brain !!! :-) ron ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:40:48 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: NJC Support for war Wow. I'll bet *that* was a sight to see! As an apathetic moderate, I'll weigh in: 1.) The president isn't fooling anyone. We all know perfectly well that bin Lauden "did" the 11 September attacks and the US intelligence community can't find him. 2.) There's more to the Administration's enthusiasm for deposing Hussein than meets the eye. (See US history for the past 3 decades + Vice President Chaney's bizarre history. I hope Hunter Thompson writes this up one day! working title: "Fear and Loathing when the Oval Office visits Baghdad") 3.) Since we set Hussein up and he's committed atrocities against the Kurds and lead unprovoked attacks on Israel, he needed to be monitored closely and continuously. The No-Fly zones (there were two) seemed to be working perfectly. 4.) It's a real sorry situation when we can't think of a way to improve the safety of the Kurds without going to war because of a.) The loss of civilian lives in Iraq. I think the women of Iraq have it hard enough, yes? b.) The loss of Coalition military personnel (including an Army cook who happened to be a woman and a mother.) c.) The cost of the war. We can't afford it. d.) The fact that the USA looks like a bunch of kooks in the world community and I'm hard pressed to justify it myself. 5.) Like most Americans (oops, I said it), now that we're in it, I've muted my criticism somewhat. It's hard to see a list of casualties and hold onto the idea that we don't belong there. It's this alone that makes me feel that these Brits and Aussies fighting along with us are doing noble work to make an improvement. That said, I think that expecting lasting peace in an area made up of many Arab sects is folly. Each sect often holds others permanently responsible for crimes that deserve continuous revenge. 6.) And finally, I'll "bookend" this missive by stating #1. The president isn't fooling anyone. The intelligence community has not found bin Lauden and Hussein was not responsible for the 11 September attacks. On the other hand, I suppose it's possible that the NSA does know where bin Lauden is and they're not gonna pick him up until after the war. I'm off to buy the Sunday New York Times in the hope that I can become better informed in a couple of hours of reading, as opposed to spending days in front of the telly, watching reruns of night-time explosions in Baghdad. Lama PS, no one actually read this, right? Guzzi said, >>>>The students of course are on the streets, as is almost tradition here, against the war. My parents very apathetic and right of center are against the war. My friends and peers are against it. The most I have heard for it are people in the middle. The Teamsters union stood side by side, at the rally I attended, with Amnesty International. >>>> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 15:48:05 -0500 From: Kay Ashley Subject: speaking of democracy VLJC Kate and Bob wrote: - ------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:09:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: speaking of democracy njc In a message dated 3/29/2003 12:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > (a) 0 > (b) zero > (c) none > (d) not a one > (e) a whole number between -1 and +1 > I wish the multiple choice in Cheistry 101 had been this easy! Ummm, all of the above? ;~) And this is a significant point. A Democracy works in America because we've got mostly middle class, with smaller groups of rich & poor (of course this is beginning to radically shift I'm afraid). In the countries you named, and in Iraq, there's virtually NO middle class, a small VERY rich and powerful class, and a HUGE poor class. Democracy would never work there. I don't know whether or not Bush realizes this, but I don't see any way he can "win" this particular conflict. Bob - ------------------------------ Hey, it's Kay, emerging from a long lurking state. Sorry I missed you guys last week at W2W, I was in NC for family reasons. I feel like the prodigal daughter returning home. ;-) I've been meaning to post a mild hello-type post for a while, since usually I emerge from the shadows with a bombastic political diatribe... but alas, I can't help myself. ;-) Kate, thanks for referencing William Blum. Anyone who wishes to know the truth of the impact of US foreign policy over the past 60 years needs to read his book "Killing Hope." (Not to mention "The Fire This Time" by Ramsey Clark, a book which offers a more accurate view of the first Gulf War (and the fact that it never really ended in the first place) than you will ever find in mainstream media.) Sorry to offend those who will disagree with me, but I must say that anyone who takes the mainstream media's word for it, not to mention the company line coming out of Washington, is just hopelessly misinformed about this conflict, its real motives, its complex historical roots and its likely long-term consequences. Bob, I totally concur re: the class issue; in addition, you bring up an interesting point by saying, "I don't know whether or not Bush realizes this, but I don't see any way he can "win" this particular conflict." I think that really, more to the point, the Bush administration has no intention of setting up a democracy in Iraq. In their view, "winning" consists of nothing more than ousting Hussein and taking control of Iraq's natural resources. And hang the long-term consequences. This is old-fashioned, arrogant imperialism, plain and simple. The statistics that Kate referenced speak louder than any of the rhetoric blowing out of Washington. They know full well that democracy can't work there, for precisely the reasons you cited, among others; but "making the world safe for democracy" is one of the oldest bits of wool to be pulled over the eyes of the American public in its relatively short history; it's a favorite chestnut that they have extremely successfully re-introduced to a public that really ought to know better. In other words, they are lying. (Did we learn nothing from Vietnam? Over 10 years of illegal warfare -- and Vietnam fell to the Communists anyway. And no, it wasn't the "unpatriotic" protestors' fault; it was the fault of arrogant men who, like the current administration, had a fatal hubris and disconnection from reality.) I don't even need to cite the current state of affairs in Afghanistan. But the current administration counts on the short attention span and the malleability of the average American. Sadly, their cynically low estimates of our intelligence and analytical ability are usually right. The older I get, the more I am convinced of the validity of my hypothesis regarding the Republicans: they always want to cut education funding before anything else because their hold on power is utterly dependent on the ignorance of the average American. The dumber we are, the more power they have. It's the only way I know to explain why people whose interests are NEVER served by the Republicans consistently vote for them. Or why this nation has tolerated the blatant coup d'etat that occurred in December 2000, courtesy of our politically motivated Supreme Court. Jingoistic rhetoric loves to fill the vacuum created by ignorance. And don't even get me started on Ashcroft and Poindexter. If we are not vigilant in exercising our right to voice dissent; if we are not vigilant in exercising our right to vote; in short, if we do not make sure that we kick these bums out in 2004, then democracy as we know it will be subject matter for the history books. This is not exaggeration. The "Patriot Act II" that Ashcroft is crafting in his Greek statue-less office, if passed by a compliant, fearful Congress, will destroy the balance of power that the Founding Fathers worked so hard to safeguard (and for which so many people died during the Revolutionary War). Patriot Act II will do irreparable damage to this country. It is the road to fascism. That is also not exaggeration. All of us, not just lefties, should be terrified by the prospects of an Executive Branch without effective checks and balances, not to mention terrified by a police force unfettered by laws protecting our civil rights. It rather makes one question just who's "patriotic", doesn't it? This country was founded by dissidents and revolutionaries, not complacent apologists for the status quo. These are extremely dangerous times we live in, and the health of our democracy will continue to deteriorate the more people feel it necessary to "fall in line" behind the president and not question our government's actions. What the more-patriotic-than-thou Hawks fail to appreciate is that the freedom to express dissident views is the very essence of democracy. So, in short, it's appallingly dishonest of the Bush administration to be waxing poetic about democracy and freedom in Iraq while here at home, they are busily destroying the freedoms that define us as a nation. I will be marching in DC on the 12th. My sign will say, "I Am Also Fighting to Protect American Freedom" on one side, and "Support Our Troops: Bring Them Home" on the other. On a lighter note, I have also recently rediscovered STAS (just bought the HDCD version), and it just blows me away, all over again. I wanna play Sisotowbell Lane at JoniFest! :-) Later! :-) Kay "The first job of a citizen is to keep your mouth open." ~ G|nter Grass ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:37:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: NJC Support for war --- "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > PS, no one actually read this, right? Was that a trick question? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 17:39:33 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: more (male) joni covers In a message dated 3/30/2003 12:53:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: > Just came across 2 Joni covers by Richard Thompson (to whom I was turned on > by Debra Shea), downloaded from the web: Black Crow (so-so) and a very > interesting version of Woodstock. Laurent, just in case you didn't know...these would have been the performances he did on the TNT Joni tribute in 2000. He was only scheduled to do Black Crow (which I thought was much better than so-so, but maybe because I think Black Crow rocks), but took on Woodstock when Stone Temple Pilots had to cancel. I would have loved to hear STP doing Woodstock, it would have added a nice edge to the gig. Bob NP: 50 cent, "Till I Collapse - remix" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 17:52:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: speaking of democracy VLJC Hiya Kay, Sorry that I missed you when I was in NYC and I'm sorry for your loss. Thanks for checking in & especially for your well-written post. Sisotowbell Lane is an interesting song...I wonder if it's about a place that Joni actually experienced, or a place she imagined. I mean, I know the NAME is fictitious, just wondering what she's referencing. Bob NP: Saliva, "Always" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:00:41 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni In Fiction - A new one? In a message dated 3/30/2003 9:51:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, FMY FL writes: > They play "A Case of You" (from BSN) during a VERY HOT HOT Love scene > between Kate Capshaw and Elle McPherson. My glasses were fogging up and I > wasn't wearing them. Now THAT's "must-see" DVD! Ain't technology wonderful? (Of course, I'm merely interested in seeing how the director uses the music in the film, like Faye Dunaway in "Little Big Man" I will 'avert my eyes at the proper moment')...;o) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 16:10:24 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Song to a Seagull Ok I just got this sisotowbell song. Pretty cool. This version says part 2. is there a part1? Maybe one day I'll actually buy a cd then I'll actually know where songs come from and in what order they are supposed to go in. to my credit if I did buy it I would only lose it anyway ... I dunno if that's to my credit ... hmmmm. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Berghoff Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 8:50 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Song to a Seagull I would have to agree with Little Bird. I absolutely love Joni's early work, the clarity of the sound, the innocence and newness of her sound. I regularly play these early treats, and I'm glad someone else has been enjoying them, too! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:27:06 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: true or false? - NJC & political content I have a friend I've known for nearly 25 years who fled the US a couple of weeks ago because she says she's afraid of "what's coming next," although she's not sure what it will be. Today I received the following from her. Does anyone know if this is true? If so, it is very scary: . . . Martial Law (See notes at bottom of page) As of 3/20, we are at threat level Orange, one step away from Red. What Threat Level "Red" Means Executive Order 10995: All communications media are to be seized by the Federal Government. Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be under federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended indefinitely. Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals well be seized by the federal government. Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated. Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will go into government control. Any vehicle can be seized. Executive Order 11000: All civilians can be used for work under federal supervision. Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency." Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president. Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government. Executive Order 12656: ASSIGNMENT OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS RESPONSIBILITIES, "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States. Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order includes federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, wage and price controls, prohibits you from moving assets in or out of the United States, creates a draft, controls all travel in and out of the United States, and much more. Source: Indy Media and the Office of Homeland Security ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 19:51:39 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war oil? we should switch over to olive oil ... extra virgin at that ;-D Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of dsk Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:28 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC Support for war That would be a start, and I think some people wanting to go to more efficient cars or alternative energy sources is a form of what you suggest, albeit not nearly as dramatic. Gas isn't the only use of oil, though. In one quick glance around, how much plastic do you see? That's an oil-based product, as is polyester fabric, which seems to be everywhere now, even in high-priced clothing. Even nylon and pantyhose wouldn't exist without oil. Even the cost-efficient (and unhealthy) way cattle are raised in the US uses a huge amount of oil. Certainly everything manufactured uses oil in some way. If not in the product itself, oil is used to keep the machinery going. So when the price of oil goes up, everything's effected, even though the most noticeable rising price is at the gas pump. So, obviously, to keep our (the US) lifestyle going, we need A LOT of oil, as cheaply as possible. Maybe those nice Canadians would just give us their oil? And then after that's used up, maybe those nice Venezuelans... Of course, US corporate greed being what it now is, the cheap oil (wherever it's taken from) will benefit only the US oil company executives, who will then turn around and sell it for top dollar, probably, to US consumers. Supply and demand and all that rubbish can be manipulated, as in the faked California energy crisis, especially with oily friendly Bush and Cheney in office. Debra Shea, thinking in all this direness that the trend to getting music via download (which I'm resisting) rather than buying oil-product cds may turn out to be a good thing; ok, so it's not a BIG bright spot, but it's something positive, maybe... NP: BBC World News ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:06:59 +0100 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: true or false? - NJC & political content On Monday, Mar 31, 2003, at 01:27 Europe/London, Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > As of 3/20, we are at threat level Orange, one step away from Red. > What Threat Level "Red" Means > Executive Order 10995: > All communications media are to be seized by the Federal > Government. > Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be > under > federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended > indefinitely. From the standpoint of someone who's worked in the Internet arena for many years now, "federal control" of the internet isn't going to happen. The old saying goes:- "The Internet treats censorship as damage, and routes around it" Similarly, CB and Ham radio are effectively unregulated, and you can't prevent people from listening in or broadcasting on those frequencies. Technically, I suppose, frequencies in those spectra could be jammed, but I don't believe this to be a practical reality over anywhere but a very small grographical area. My gut feel would be that this message you received might be one of those urban myth jobbies, concoted by some malcontent to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD). Just my $0.02. - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:33:47 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: true or false? - NJC & political content > Similarly, CB and Ham radio are effectively unregulated, > and you can't prevent people from listening in or broadcasting > on those frequencies. Technically, I suppose, frequencies > in those spectra could be jammed, but I don't believe this > to be a practical reality over anywhere but a very small > grographical area. From personal experience I can tell you these frequencies are quite regulated and monitored. You must have a licence to boot. A moderately beefed up CB can effectively overpower radio and cause extreme interference to television over an entire city if broadcast from the right place. This I also know from personal experience. Though very easy to trace where it's coming from a matter of minutes and they're at your door. Loved the adage about the internet Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:56:22 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: true or false? - NJC & political content In a message dated 3/30/2003 7:28:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: > Does > anyone know if this is true? If so, it is very scary: > Hmmm...I pulled out the ol' Bullsh*t Detector on this one and it pushed the meters to 11! Let 'em sieze my junker car - they'll give it back in under 24 hours! :~) Bob NP: Bruce, "Worlds Apart" 12/9/02 (The Springsteen lyric that keeps going around in my head...I imagine George on his pony riding into Iraq singing "I want to liberate you, confiscate you, I want to be your man!") Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny? Not likely. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 20:59:51 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Song to a Seagull In a message dated 3/30/2003 7:10:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, theodore@buckfush.org writes: > Ok I just got this sisotowbell song. Pretty cool. This version says part > 2. is there a part1? This is most likefly in reference to the way Joni divided the album into 2 parts: Part 1 - I Came To The City, and Part 2 - Out Of The City And Down To The Seaside, with Sisotowbell Lane leading off Part 2. Bob NP: Broooce, "She's The One" 12/9/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 18:33:59 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: NJC PC TRUE OR FALSE hello, i'm sure if we ever have to go to condition red martial law is one possibility. but we are far far far far from martial law---------condition red yes, martial law nationwide naw. we as americans will not stand for it, the global economy will never survive it and besides w/ all the firepower and technology that our enforcement agencies have they don't need it. but those executive orders you listed are the rights we give up only if martial law and imminent threat to our country exists. now i can get back to joni. does anyone know what the titles of the books that are shown on the back of the ti cd package??? i believe that's a picture in joni's house and her "spiritual power" shelf. just guessing from the ashtrays and other spiritual artifacts. any ideas out there??? take care gene ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 21:38:36 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war I keep hearing oil referred to as light sweet crude etc. are there crude oil tasters? Mmmmmm ... black gold! Texas tea! Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 4:52 PM To: dsk; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: NJC Support for war oil? we should switch over to olive oil ... extra virgin at that ;-D Heather - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of dsk Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 5:28 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: NJC Support for war That would be a start, and I think some people wanting to go to more efficient cars or alternative energy sources is a form of what you suggest, albeit not nearly as dramatic. Gas isn't the only use of oil, though. In one quick glance around, how much plastic do you see? That's an oil-based product, as is polyester fabric, which seems to be everywhere now, even in high-priced clothing. Even nylon and pantyhose wouldn't exist without oil. Even the cost-efficient (and unhealthy) way cattle are raised in the US uses a huge amount of oil. Certainly everything manufactured uses oil in some way. If not in the product itself, oil is used to keep the machinery going. So when the price of oil goes up, everything's effected, even though the most noticeable rising price is at the gas pump. So, obviously, to keep our (the US) lifestyle going, we need A LOT of oil, as cheaply as possible. Maybe those nice Canadians would just give us their oil? And then after that's used up, maybe those nice Venezuelans... Of course, US corporate greed being what it now is, the cheap oil (wherever it's taken from) will benefit only the US oil company executives, who will then turn around and sell it for top dollar, probably, to US consumers. Supply and demand and all that rubbish can be manipulated, as in the faked California energy crisis, especially with oily friendly Bush and Cheney in office. Debra Shea, thinking in all this direness that the trend to getting music via download (which I'm resisting) rather than buying oil-product cds may turn out to be a good thing; ok, so it's not a BIG bright spot, but it's something positive, maybe... NP: BBC World News ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #203 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)