From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #201 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 29 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 201 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni and the war [emil thompson ] RE: Joni and the war ["theodore" ] Re: banned tunes NJC [Deb Messling ] More balm for the soul njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: Joni and the war ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: banned tunes NJC [AsharaJM@aol.com] NJC Support for war ["Gillian Apter" ] RE: NJC Support for war ["Jerry Notaro" ] RE: NJC Support for war ["theodore" ] Shadows and Light Revised Edition ["James Leahy" ] Re: NJC Support for war ["mack watson-bush" ] RE: song of the day (njc) ["theodore" ] RE: NJC Support for war ["theodore" ] RE: NJC Support for war ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: NJC Support for war [Susan Guzzi ] Rachel Z story from 3/28 Newark Star-Ledger ["Kate Bennett" ] speaking of democracy njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni in Rolling Stone. [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] RE: NJC Support for war [Catherine McKay ] RE: NJC Support for war ["theodore" ] RE: NJC Support for war [Catherine McKay ] RE: NJC Support for war ["Jerry Notaro" ] RE: NJC Support for war [Catherine McKay ] NJC Re: speaking of democracy njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: NJC Re: speaking of democracy njc ["theodore" ] star wars 2003 [vince ] apology [vince ] Iraq-ish NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Jonesing for Joni ["Jerry Notaro" ] Re: Jonesing for Joni [Little Bird ] Warning- this message may offend supporters of Bush NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] smoking statues in "god-forsaken" canada [Murphycopy@aol.com] Joni mention in Billboard [Randy Remote ] Re: smoking statues in "god-forsaken" canada ["Lori Fye" ] Pre-American Masters Warmup [Mark129@cs.com] Re: NJC Support for war [dsk ] Wake Up and Smell the Burning Oil (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:45:25 +0000 From: emil thompson Subject: Joni and the war Does anyone know where Joni stands on this whole war issue thing, has she said anything about it ? How about Neil Young, his politics have always been very dodgy but I can't imagine any of that generation can be in favour. Is it going to be another Vietnam repeat ? hey Ruth from Richmond, right on, loved the krishnamurti quote. emil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 03:50:11 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Joni and the war "We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man, We got a kindler gentler machine gun hand" Neil Young "Keep On Rocking In The Free World." - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of emil thompson Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 2:45 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Joni and the war Does anyone know where Joni stands on this whole war issue thing, has she said anything about it ? How about Neil Young, his politics have always been very dodgy but I can't imagine any of that generation can be in favour. Is it going to be another Vietnam repeat ? hey Ruth from Richmond, right on, loved the krishnamurti quote. emil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:43:52 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: banned tunes NJC I got this bit (which I edited for brevity) on Google News: CHUM-AM denies banning war songs By JOHN KRYK -- Toronto Sun TORONTO -- Communication breakdown, it's always the same. In a strange twist, CHUM-AM yesterday denied a story first reported by its sister Web site that it had banned 20 perceived pro-war or anti-war songs from its oldies playlist. The story was posted at about noon Thursday on the CHUM-owned Web site of all-news TV channel CP24, pulse24.com. It was subsequently re-reported by various other media, including The Sun yesterday. "No songs have been banned on 1050 CHUM -- none," Brad Jones, the station's program director, said yesterday. The station yesterday even played at least two of the purported banned songs, including Give Peace A Chance. Jones said pulse24.com's story was the result of a breakdown in communication during an interview between a pulse24.com reporter and CHUM-FM music director Barry Stewart. The reporter asked Stewart which war-themed songs were being pulled. Stewart thought the reporter meant pulled off the shelf for broadcast, whereas the reporter meant pulled from the playlist. Full story at http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusic/mar29_chum-sun.html At 09:29 PM 3/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Where did you see this? I just checked their website & >couldn't find anything about it. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:15:30 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: More balm for the soul njc I went to see Madredeus in concert at the Royal Festival Hall last night. Oh boy! Add this experience to the list of those that provide comfort in this insane times. Madredeus play a modern take on the traditional Portuguese "fado" folk song, which seems to consist mostly of very mournful, very beautiful tunes, sung in a plaintive, beseeching voice. The line-up is two classical guitars, acoustic bass, keyboards and a singer. Their appearance is almost comically "square", so much so that they come full circle and look ineffably cool: four middle-aged men in black suit-and-tie combos and an ethereal woman, dressed in black from neck to toe. They looked like the designated mourners at a slightly arty funeral. They make no concessions to any linguistic limitations in the audience, apart from a few introductory explanations in English from the singer, Theresa Salgueiro; although many of the audience were Portuguese speakers, I must have been one among many hundreds of people who understood not one single word of the concert! The last time this happened to me was when I saw The Women of the Bulgarian State Radio Choir (aka Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares) a few years ago; then as now, it didn't matter. The music is as gorgeous as could be: the instrumental backdrops they create are subtle, tasteful (in the best sense of the word) and mellifluous, providing an air cushion for Salgueiro's voice, which is stunningly expressive and powerful. Her voice did take a while to grow on me on record (I found the timbre slightly keening), but I've come to love it - and in concert she was compelling, as they all were. No dance routines: they stood or sat stock-still throughout, except for a bit of gentle swaying from the singer in the few up-tempo numbers. The audience sounded as if they were holding their breath throughout. It was unlike any concerty I've been to. If you get a chance, go and see them. Azeem in London NP: Rae & Christian- Sleepwalking ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:07:47 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: Joni and the war emil asks? > Does anyone know where Joni stands on this whole war issue thing, has > she said anything about it ? Listen to DED and I am sure you will know. mack np: endless war coverage which sadly and frightenly takes me back to childhood and the daily reports of the dead from Vietnam. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:17:09 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: banned tunes NJC In a message dated 3/28/2003 8:42:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > Give Peace A Chance JOHN LENNON GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have GOT to be kidding!! I just cannot, cannot believe this. SO sad. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:33:02 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: NJC Support for war Hello everyone, I've been seeing reports on Spanish TV that the American population is about 70% por the Iraqi war. I know these official figures aren't usually reliable, but I was wondering what others think a more reliable figure would be. The father of an american friend of mine living in Madrid came to Spain this week with a group of 19 senior US citizens (aged between 75 and 80) on a quick "see Spain tour". He was the tour guide. Only ONE person in the whole group was pro this war, and she had a son in the Navy. Is this representative of older people, and or the general population? Thanks if you have any thoughts on this gill in madrid ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:07:45 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war Polls say it's between 60-70%. About 45% say they think the war is going well (whatever the hell that means). Jerry There never was a good war or a bad peace. Benjamin Franklin, 1773 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Gillian Apter Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 9:33 AM To: joni list Subject: NJC Support for war Hello everyone, I've been seeing reports on Spanish TV that the American population is about 70% por the Iraqi war. I know these official figures aren't usually reliable, but I was wondering what others think a more reliable figure would be. The father of an american friend of mine living in Madrid came to Spain this week with a group of 19 senior US citizens (aged between 75 and 80) on a quick "see Spain tour". He was the tour guide. Only ONE person in the whole group was pro this war, and she had a son in the Navy. Is this representative of older people, and or the general population? Thanks if you have any thoughts on this gill in madrid ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:08:09 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war Sometimes I think its how they ask these poll questions. After the Vietnam war we went to a volunteer military versus conscription or the draft. The vets from Vietnam got a cold reception from the American public. Lots of people saw them as baby killers. Lots had a hard time when they returned finding jobs and adapting to civilian life. The trend here is to support the troops, so they know they have support on the home front. Being ant-war is construed as being anti-troops. There is a feeling here that we need to pull together in times of war. I for one am a pacifist. I believe the best way to support the troops is not to send them off to be shot and bomb babies. I think the longer the war goes on and the more casualties we see both civilian and our troops the tide will indeed change. The majority of Americans did not vote for this president; however they are not informed enough to realize this action and its timing are political tools of the bush reelection effort. Bush would love to run as a war hero versus the moron that screwed our economy, robbed our seniors, decimated our schools and fucked up Mother Nature. The truth will trickle out as the war drags on. Right now everyone thinks this war will be over in two weeks. Time will show the wiser. The anti-war movement here is way stronger than press wants to give it credit for. The knock on the Vietnam anti-war movement is that it was a bunch of freaky radical free loving subversives. This time it is a very middle America movement. I am here to tell you that if you live in America and raise a family you are most likely not living on your girlfriend's couch playing tambourine man on the street corner for yogurt money. You are working way to hard and ass deep in debt. Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Apter Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:33 AM To: joni list Subject: NJC Support for war Hello everyone, I've been seeing reports on Spanish TV that the American population is about 70% por the Iraqi war. I know these official figures aren't usually reliable, but I was wondering what others think a more reliable figure would be. The father of an american friend of mine living in Madrid came to Spain this week with a group of 19 senior US citizens (aged between 75 and 80) on a quick "see Spain tour". He was the tour guide. Only ONE person in the whole group was pro this war, and she had a son in the Navy. Is this representative of older people, and or the general population? Thanks if you have any thoughts on this gill in madrid ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:19:19 -0500 From: "James Leahy" Subject: Shadows and Light Revised Edition I saw the updated edition of O'Brien's Joni bio in a store yesterday here in Toronto. It's now a (cheap-looking) paperback going for $22.95 (Cdn.). As far as I could tell, the updates include some post-9/11 stuff (in the Miscellany section) AND interview material with Chuck Mitchell. O'Brien intersperses Chuck's comments throughout the section describing Joni's giving up Kelly for adoption, getting married to Chuck, beginning her career in Detroit, and, finally, divorcing him. Needless to say, Chuck gives us a different version of these events than we have yet heard. He paints Joni as an extremely ambitious artist who really wanted to be a star and whose decision to give up her baby for adoption was not that difficult. He states that she finally decided to leave him only after getting her green card to work in the States. Other than those bits, I don't know if I'll buy this second edition. The hardback version was being remaindered at Indigo for $10 last year. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:29:17 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: NJC Support for war that's the beauty of this administration, they don't care what anyone, including the american public, think about this war. mack np:luther vandross-the night i fell in love ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:00:22 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: song of the day (njc) I just got this tune of kazaa, www.kazaa.com. Great! Its harder to get music if its not wildly popular. This one took all night but there it was in my shared folder this morning. Reminds me of the "a quick one" by the who, "you are forgiven." Ha! Ivan the engine driver. That may be my song of the day today, "Love Ain't For Keeping" By The Mighty Who. Thanks for turning me on to an artist I hadn't heard. Ted - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of magsnbrei Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 8:57 AM To: anne@sandstrom.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: song of the day (njc) Anne, I love this idea... and here's mine.... Forgiven, by Deb Talan. yes i know, i've mentioned her before...however, now that Ive got the CD... all the more reason for me to spread the word. She says she is influenced by Jonatha Brooke and Shawn Colvin and she's even got a song on this album about Amelia...so I can only guess that she is a Joni fan as well. Deb is brilliant and soulful singer/songwriter and she has a fine and tender way about her. I understand she's now living in west mass. so i am sure the folks up your way can see her in performance sometime. you can get Something Burning on CD Baby for a great price. love, mags. You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:20:00 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war I just got my new Natural History mag. Interesting little sidebar on oil. Forbes writer Paul Klebnikov www.forbes.com/global/2002/1028/024_print.html says Iraqi reserves may exceed those of Saudi Arabia. Fields producing in Iraq have the world's lowest lifting costs, what it costs to suck it out the ground, Iraq's reservoir is so shallow that it costs under a buck per barrel, compared to 2.50 for Saudi and three to four bucks for Gulf of Mexico and the North Sea. Plus I read in the paper the other day that California imports 28% of its oil from Iraq. Apparently the type of light sweet crude that they produce there works well in our refineries. Light sweet crude? Do they have oil tasters? Anyway it's easy to see why Bush, Cheney and Blair are willing to kill babies to get at Iraqi oil. Ted Ps. Its interesting to me in this anti-war campaign no one has suggested boycotting gasoline. That would take care of it. If we all just said fuck it. Parked our cars in the middle of the road and walked away. You go first ... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of mack watson-bush Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:29 AM To: joni Subject: Re: NJC Support for war that's the beauty of this administration, they don't care what anyone, including the american public, think about this war. mack np:luther vandross-the night i fell in love ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:40:31 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war Before the war the U.S. imported 2.2% of its oil from Iraq. The U.S. imports 11.5% of its oil from the Middle East. Most of the Mideast oil exports go to Europe. The U.S. could easily cut its Mideast imports to 0 by increasing its supply from its #1 provider: Canada. Canada supplies 10% of U.S. with its oil imports. For more info: http://www.apiinformation.org/factsheets/oil_imports.html Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of theodore Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:20 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: NJC Support for war I just got my new Natural History mag. Interesting little sidebar on oil. Forbes writer Paul Klebnikov www.forbes.com/global/2002/1028/024_print.html says Iraqi reserves may exceed those of Saudi Arabia. Fields producing in Iraq have the world's lowest lifting costs, what it costs to suck it out the ground, Iraq's reservoir is so shallow that it costs under a buck per barrel, compared to 2.50 for Saudi and three to four bucks for Gulf of Mexico and the North Sea. Plus I read in the paper the other day that California imports 28% of its oil from Iraq. Apparently the type of light sweet crude that they produce there works well in our refineries. Light sweet crude? Do they have oil tasters? Anyway it's easy to see why Bush, Cheney and Blair are willing to kill babies to get at Iraqi oil. Ted Ps. Its interesting to me in this anti-war campaign no one has suggested boycotting gasoline. That would take care of it. If we all just said fuck it. Parked our cars in the middle of the road and walked away. You go first ... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of mack watson-bush Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:29 AM To: joni Subject: Re: NJC Support for war that's the beauty of this administration, they don't care what anyone, including the american public, think about this war. mack np:luther vandross-the night i fell in love ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:47:41 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: NJC Support for war Hi Gill, I think this number is way misinterpreted. I think most of "middle" America, are in support of the war as long as we are there. You know Americans are very competitve and want to win at every game we play! LOL! BUt if they were specifically asked "Do you believe we should be in a war with Iraq." I would say that you would see it split somewhat down the middle. Possibly, even more so against, 5 or so percent. I say this being a radical feminist lesbian in the finacial world of commodities, a relatively conservative, and/or Republican arena. I have not met ONE person, even in the upper echelon who support our going over there, but since we are - they of course want to play to win. The students of course are on the streets, as is alomst tradition here, against the war. My parents very apathetic and right of center are against the war. My friends and peers are against it. The most I have heard for it are people in the middle. The Teamsters union stood side by side, at the rally I attended, with Amnesty International. I think the way the question is proposed helps create the vein of this administrations propaganda. But that is just my opinion, for what its worth. Much Peace, Susan NP: California by that Joni Chick > --- Gillian Apter lingua-arts@ecua.es> wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've been seeing reports on Spanish TV that the American population is about > 70% por the Iraqi war. I know these official figures aren't usually reliable, > but I was wondering what others think a more reliable figure would be. > > The father of an american friend of mine living in Madrid came to Spain this > week with a group of 19 senior US citizens (aged between 75 and 80) on a > quick "see Spain tour". He was the tour guide. Only ONE person in the whole > group was pro this war, and she had a son in the Navy. > > Is this representative of older people, and or the general population? > > > Thanks if you have any thoughts on this > > gill in madrid Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:46:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Rachel Z story from 3/28 Newark Star-Ledger >Later, when Z was a student at Morris Knolls High School, she performed Mitchell's tunes at Tavern On The Green and The Greenhouse in Morristown< my childhood stomping grounds! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:46:19 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Song to a Seagull i agree andrew, i recently 'rediscovered this album', the one that introduced me to joni, & i think it has taken over as my #1 joni album now...pirates of p gives me goosebumps! >What a beautiful experience it was to listen to Song To A Seagull at full volume on this bright spring day!< ()() (oo) *********oOO**(..)************** * Kate Bennett * *'bringing the melancholy world* * of twilight to life * * almost like magic' * * All Music Guide * * www.katebennett.com * *********************oOO******** /_____\ || || ooO Ooo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:54:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: speaking of democracy njc something interesting i just received from a friend: Here is a history quiz recently aired by ABC. The test consists of one multiple-choice question. Here's a list of the countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II, compiled by historian William Blum: China 1945-46 Korea 1950-53 China 1950-53 Guatemala 1954 Indonesia 1958 Cuba 1959-60 Guatemala 1960 Congo 1964 Peru 1965 Laos 1964-73 Vietnam 1961-73 Cambodia 1969-70 Guatemala 1967-69 Grenada 1983 Libya 1986 El Salvador 1980s Nicaragua 1980s Panama 1989 Iraq 1991-99 Sudan 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Yugoslavia 1999 Afghanistan 2001- And now for the test: In how many of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result? Choose one of the following: (a) 0 (b) zero (c) none (d) not a one (e) a whole number between -1 and +1 ()() (oo) *********oOO**(..)************** * Kate Bennett * *'bringing the melancholy world* * of twilight to life * * almost like magic' * * All Music Guide * * www.katebennett.com * *********************oOO******** /_____\ || || ooO Ooo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:13:25 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Joni in Rolling Stone. Just got the mail, Joni is mentioned on page 32. Music on TV Wednesday, April 2nd Joni Mitchell: Folk legend is profiled on American Masters-Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart and Mind. 9p.m.,PBS I called WGCFU here in southwest FL and they said it was set in stone and should be shown though-out the nation on all PBS stations. Peace, Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:22:01 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: NJC Support for war --- Jerry Notaro wrote: The U.S. could easily cut its Mideast > imports to 0 by increasing its > supply from its #1 provider: Canada. Canada supplies > 10% of U.S. with its > oil imports. For more info: > > http://www.apiinformation.org/factsheets/oil_imports.html Oh great. You're going to be taking us over next. We'll have to take all the friggin' U's out of words like colour, flavour & all that. We'll be saying "HUH?" instead of "EH?" We'll have to put our hands over our hearts and do some pledge of allegiance thing, and act like we care. There'll be football on TV all the time (like there isn't already.) That upsets me so much I think I need a Big Mac. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:31:39 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war I read somewhere that if we all had cars that averaged 70mpg we would become an oil exporting nation overnight. Interesting Canada was against the war. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Notaro Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 8:41 AM To: 'theodore'; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: NJC Support for war Before the war the U.S. imported 2.2% of its oil from Iraq. The U.S. imports 11.5% of its oil from the Middle East. Most of the Mideast oil exports go to Europe. The U.S. could easily cut its Mideast imports to 0 by increasing its supply from its #1 provider: Canada. Canada supplies 10% of U.S. with its oil imports. For more info: http://www.apiinformation.org/factsheets/oil_imports.html Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of theodore Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:20 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: NJC Support for war I just got my new Natural History mag. Interesting little sidebar on oil. Forbes writer Paul Klebnikov www.forbes.com/global/2002/1028/024_print.html says Iraqi reserves may exceed those of Saudi Arabia. Fields producing in Iraq have the world's lowest lifting costs, what it costs to suck it out the ground, Iraq's reservoir is so shallow that it costs under a buck per barrel, compared to 2.50 for Saudi and three to four bucks for Gulf of Mexico and the North Sea. Plus I read in the paper the other day that California imports 28% of its oil from Iraq. Apparently the type of light sweet crude that they produce there works well in our refineries. Light sweet crude? Do they have oil tasters? Anyway it's easy to see why Bush, Cheney and Blair are willing to kill babies to get at Iraqi oil. Ted Ps. Its interesting to me in this anti-war campaign no one has suggested boycotting gasoline. That would take care of it. If we all just said fuck it. Parked our cars in the middle of the road and walked away. You go first ... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of mack watson-bush Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 7:29 AM To: joni Subject: Re: NJC Support for war that's the beauty of this administration, they don't care what anyone, including the american public, think about this war. mack np:luther vandross-the night i fell in love ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:35:08 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: NJC Support for war --- theodore wrote: > I read somewhere that if we all had cars that > averaged 70mpg we would > become an oil exporting nation overnight. Yeah, but that wouldn't put enough cash in the hands of the few who make megabucks off it, would it? > Interesting Canada was against > the war. That means we're screwed for sure. P.S. Has all the oil in Texas been used up?? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:30:13 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: NJC Support for war - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine McKay [mailto:anima_rising@yahoo.ca] Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 1:22 PM To: Jerry Notaro; 'theodore'; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: NJC Support for war Oh great. You're going to be taking us over next. - -------------------------------------------- I thought we already had :-) Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:40:42 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: NJC Support for war I wrote: > > Oh great. You're going to be taking us over next. - --- Jerry Notaro (aka SmartAss) wrote: > I thought we already had :-) One would think so. Certainly on the surface it appears so - we've got our share of Macdonald's, Walmart, Wendy's, Burger King & so on ad nauseum. Ultimately these days it all comes down to who's got the money. We've got so much national debt that someday someone's going to call in the loan, but somehow I think it's more likely to be Saudi Arabia than the USA. How ironic is that? (If everyone owes money to everyone else, who really has any money?) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:09:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: speaking of democracy njc In a message dated 3/29/2003 12:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > (a) 0 > (b) zero > (c) none > (d) not a one > (e) a whole number between -1 and +1 > I wish the multiple choice in Cheistry 101 had been this easy! Ummm, all of the above? ;~) And this is a significant point. A Democracy works in America because we've got mostly middle class, with smaller groups of rich & poor (of course this is beginning to radically shift I'm afraid). In the countries you named, and in Iraq, there's virtually NO middle class, a small VERY rich and powerful class, and a HUGE poor class. Democracy would never work there. I don't know whether or not Bush realizes this, but I don't see any way he can "win" this particular conflict. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:28:28 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: NJC Re: speaking of democracy njc - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of SCJoniGuy@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:09 AM To: kate@katebennett.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: NJC Re: speaking of democracy njc In a message dated 3/29/2003 12:59:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > (a) 0 > (b) zero > (c) none > (d) not a one > (e) a whole number between -1 and +1 > I wish the multiple choice in Cheistry 101 had been this easy! Ummm, all of the above? ;~) I always called it multiple guess. And this is a significant point. A Democracy works in America because we've got mostly middle class, with smaller groups of rich & poor (of course this is beginning to radically shift I'm afraid). In the countries you named, and in Iraq, there's virtually NO middle class, a small VERY rich and powerful class, and a HUGE poor class. 1/2 of the population of Iraq is under the age of eighteen! Democracy would never work there. I don't know whether or not Bush realizes this, but I don't see any way he can "win" this particular conflict. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:37:16 -0500 From: vince Subject: star wars 2003 Cheney: The United Nations will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor, ah, president, has dissolved the security council permanently. The last remnants of Old Europe and its lackeys have been swept away. Me: But that's impossible. How will the Emperor, ah, president, maintain peace without the UN? Cheney: The Rumsfeld appointees now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of shock and awe. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 14:46:44 -0500 From: vince Subject: apology damn my last post should have been NJC and I am very sorry - I typed NJC, it didn't take (damn keyboard) and I apologize everyone vince ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:14:38 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Iraq-ish NJC Ruth, Hi. your post in Digest 199 has this quote at the end of it "When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind. - - --J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, pp.51-52 " This is an interesting quote..but ....... what about women who seek to understand violence? The universal club of parenthood? being a JMDL member as opposed to or in addition to a JOan BAez-er or a James TAylor-er (he does mention "anything else") YOu make valid and interesting points throughout your post (but who am I to judge.. I thought so anyway).... I feel, however that Krishnamurti makes a general sweeping assumption that people necessarily consciously define them selves by the religion they follow and/or the nationality they are. He appears, however to dissallow for the unity of the human kind for the common good, the unity of groups like the Red Cross, Medcins sans Frontieres..the large national and international charities who deny no-one in need their succour and assistance. All these people who work in such capacities have passionate belief in doing good in areas where wrong has been done.... They identify with that cause of neutral good.... not zealous conversion to "their side" but necessary, non-political, non-judgemental good.... All of us who are agaisnst this war, and I am passionately against it on humanitarian grounds and out of deep suspiscion over the motives for it. But we need to recognise also that the people who are fighting this war are possibly equally distressed, despite "doing the job they are paid for". I doubt very much that 100% of the soldiers are happily going about their day, and are possibly feeling that they have been misled, set up and will ultimately carry the can for the big shots who stay out of the firing line.... The question I am asking, as are many others, is how come Bush has already granted the contracts for the re-building of Iraq when its over... by whose decree? who says he can? Just who are the heads of these companies, who are they in relation to Bush? and surely the re-building of Iraq is down to the decision of some new Iraqi government if the war succeeds in its supposed objectives of freeing the place of Saddam... . Surely if Bush is the good man he says he is he cannot be talking about spoils can he? are these not reserved as reparation for damage sustained by the aggrieved against the aggressor? has he missed the point entirely? Did Iraq invade either the UK or the US.... I don't think so. Too many innocent people have already died and it is going to get worse... Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:15:00 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: Jonesing for Joni Entertainment Weekly gives a C Grade to Joni Mitchell: Woman of Heart and Mind. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:17:04 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Jonesing for Joni They're morons! It's an A+ if you're a Joni fan! - -Andrew > Entertainment Weekly gives a C Grade to Joni > Mitchell: Woman of Heart and Mind. Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 12:17:01 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Warning- this message may offend supporters of Bush NJC House Representative Congressman John Conyers on the Judicial Committee is asking you through his legislative assistant Alexia, to fax or email if you want Bush impeached. MESSAGE FROM ALEXIA: DO NOT PHONE. USE FAX OR EMAIL, CAUSE PHONES ARE RINGING OFF HOOK (right-wingers are flooding them) PLEASE SEND A BRIEF message stating whether you are FOR or AGAINST impeachment via email or fax. They are NOT introducing articles of impeachment now. They are only TALLYING votes FOR and AGAINST impeachment as of this moment. e mail: john.conyers@mail.house.gov mailto:john.conyers@mail.house.gov OR Fax to ATTN. : ALEXIA, assistant to Hon.Congressman John Conyers Fax: (313) 226-2085 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:38:30 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: smoking statues in "god-forsaken" canada While reading "The Cunning Man" by Robertson Davies today, I couldn't help but think of our discussion about the proposed Joni statue a few months back. The following is part of a "letter" written in the novel from one British character to another: "But the way of the sculptor is hard, isn't it? Dear One is still *bashing* her head against *brick walls* in this artistically God-forsaken country where their idea of a statue is something like Winston Churchill in bronze with a cigar *that really smokes* sticking out of his mouth!" Me again . . . After reading this, I LOVE the idea of a Joni statue that smokes! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:27:13 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Joni mention in Billboard From the Chart Beat column by Fred Bronson, March 29 issue Hailing a Taxi: They're paving paradise and putting up another parking lot. "Big Yellow Taxi," written by 1995 Billboard Century Award honoree Joni Mitchell, is back on The Billboard Hot 100, 33 years after the song's original debut. The version by Counting Crows featuring Vanessa Carlton on Geffen/Interscope enters at No. 63 and is the fourth rendition of "Taxi" to chart. In 1970 there was a battle between Mitchell's original and a version by pop group Neighborhood. The latter won, peaking at No. 29, while the composer's own single only reached No. 67. Five years later, Michell's "Taxi" re-entered and rode to No. 24. Amy Grant remade "Taxi" in 1995, and it went to No. 67. That represented Mitchell's most recent appearance on the Hot 100 as a songwriter until this issue. The first song Mitchell wrote that charted was "Both Sides Now." Judy Collins' version entered the Hot 100 the week of Nov. 9, 1968, ultimately peaking at No. 8. That gives Mitchell a songwriting chart span of 34 years, three months, and three weeks. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 13:44:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: smoking statues in "god-forsaken" canada Smurfy wrote: > After reading this, I LOVE the idea of a Joni statue that smokes! See? 'Twasn't such a bad idea afterall, 'twas it? Lori NPIMH: "Empty, empty try another ..." P.S. - Sarah? Where are you?? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 09:52:25 +1200 From: "hell" Subject: Re: John Cleese article (NJC) Susan wrote: > This was freaking hysterical,except - please don't send these thing during work hours, then I have > to explain why I am cacklng at my desk! > > This is the best piece of political satire I've read during the current political climate. And I > can't look at sheep now without seeing them in lipliner. This was very funny, even if it wasn't written by John Cleese! I've also seen it credited to Terry Jones (also a Pythoner). But every Kiwi knows, it's not the lipliner, but the mascara and eye-shadow that sets one sheep off from the rest..... Hell in NZ, where there are 10 million sheep (and 4 million humans) ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 17:13:33 EST From: Mark129@cs.com Subject: Pre-American Masters Warmup I quote excerpts from David Crosby's "Longtime Gone" page 129 "Roberta Joan Anderson was a folksinger from Saskatoon,married to a folksinger named Chuck Mitchell,the two sang together until their divorce in 1967.Joni moved to NY to continue singing her songs on the folk circuit,counting herself lucky because she could work forty weeks a year,kept her rent paid through the end of the next month,and had four hundred dollars in the bank. She was planning a career in retail clothing sales and design. A willowy blonde with big blue eyes and high cheekbones,singing art songs in a bell-like soprano with a Canadian accent and accompanying herself on acoustic guitar adn dulcimer was not anyone's idea of the Next Big Thing,but her work was unmistakably different and she was attracting attention. Joni talks on page 130"In those days I resembled a folksinger to the untrained ear and David Crosey knew there was only one record company that was interested in folksingers. David and manager Elliot Roberts made me look like the New Movement.David thought that folkrocking me up would be a tragedy so he could go to the record company and say he would produce me.The way David put it,it's like your sitting on the patio of the Old World Restaurant and a girl goes by in blue jeans and after you think,did she have a little lace down the seams of her blue jeans? Anything we added would be minimal,that's the way we proceeded." You can read more from his book published in 1988 by Doubleday. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 17:28:26 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: NJC Support for war theodore wrote: > > Ps. Its interesting to me in this anti-war campaign no one has suggested > boycotting gasoline. That would take care of it. If we all just said > fuck it. Parked our cars in the middle of the road and walked away. You > go first ... That would be a start, and I think some people wanting to go to more efficient cars or alternative energy sources is a form of what you suggest, albeit not nearly as dramatic. Gas isn't the only use of oil, though. In one quick glance around, how much plastic do you see? That's an oil-based product, as is polyester fabric, which seems to be everywhere now, even in high-priced clothing. Even nylon and pantyhose wouldn't exist without oil. Even the cost-efficient (and unhealthy) way cattle are raised in the US uses a huge amount of oil. Certainly everything manufactured uses oil in some way. If not in the product itself, oil is used to keep the machinery going. So when the price of oil goes up, everything's effected, even though the most noticeable rising price is at the gas pump. So, obviously, to keep our (the US) lifestyle going, we need A LOT of oil, as cheaply as possible. Maybe those nice Canadians would just give us their oil? And then after that's used up, maybe those nice Venezuelans... Of course, US corporate greed being what it now is, the cheap oil (wherever it's taken from) will benefit only the US oil company executives, who will then turn around and sell it for top dollar, probably, to US consumers. Supply and demand and all that rubbish can be manipulated, as in the faked California energy crisis, especially with oily friendly Bush and Cheney in office. Debra Shea, thinking in all this direness that the trend to getting music via download (which I'm resisting) rather than buying oil-product cds may turn out to be a good thing; ok, so it's not a BIG bright spot, but it's something positive, maybe... NP: BBC World News ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 17:34:43 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Wake Up and Smell the Burning Oil (njc) Blood Money By William Rivers Pitt t r u t h o u t | Perspective Thursday 27 February 2003 "In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes." - President Dwight Eisenhower, January 1961. George W. Bush gave a speech Wednesday night before the Godfather of conservative Washington think tanks, the American Enterprise Institute. In his speech, Bush quantified his coming war with Iraq as part of a larger struggle to bring pro-western governments into power in the Middle East. Couched in hopeful language describing peace and freedom for all, the speech was in fact the closest articulation of the actual plan for Iraq that has yet been heard from the administration. In a previous truthout article from February 21, the ideological connections between an extremist right-wing Washington think tank and the foreign policy aspirations of the Bush administration were detailed. The Project for a New American Century, or PNAC, is a group founded in 1997 that has been agitating since its inception for a war with Iraq. PNAC was the driving force behind the drafting and passage of the Iraqi Liberation Act, a bill that painted a veneer of legality over the ultimate designs behind such a conflict. The names of every prominent PNAC member were on a letter delivered to President Clinton in 1998 which castigated him for not implementing the Act by driving troops into Baghdad. PNAC has funneled millions of taxpayer dollars to a Hussein opposition group called the Iraqi National Congress, and to Iraq's heir-apparent, Ahmed Chalabi, despite the fact that Chalabi was sentenced in absentia by a Jordanian court to 22 years in prison on 31 counts of bank fraud. Chalabi and the INC have, over the years, gathered support for their cause by promising oil contracts to anyone that would help to put them in power in Iraq. Most recently, PNAC created a new group called The Committee for the Liberation of Iraq. Staffed entirely by PNAC members, The Committee has set out to "educate" Americans via cable news connections about the need for war in Iraq. This group met recently with National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice regarding the ways and means of this education. Who is PNAC? Its members include: * Vice President Dick Cheney, one of the PNAC founders, who served as Secretary of Defense for Bush Sr.; * I. Lewis Libby, Cheney's top national security assistant; * Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, also a founding member, along with four of his chief aides including; * Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, arguably the ideological father of the group; * Eliot Abrams, prominent member of Bush's National Security Council, who was pardoned by Bush Sr. in the Iran/Contra scandal; * John Bolton, who serves as Undersecretary for Arms Control and International Security in the Bush administration; * Richard Perle, former Reagan administration official and present chairman of the powerful Defense Policy Board; * Randy Scheunemann, President of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, who was Trent Lott's national security aide and who served as an advisor to Rumsfeld on Iraq in 2001; * Bruce Jackson, Chairman of PNAC, a position he took after serving for years as vice president of weapons manufacturer Lockheed-Martin, and who also headed the Republican Party Platform subcommittee for National Security and Foreign Policy during the 2000 campaign. His section of the 2000 GOP Platform explicitly called for the removal of Saddam Hussein; * William Kristol, noted conservative writer for the Weekly Standard, a magazine owned along with the Fox News Network by conservative media mogul Ruppert Murdoch. The Project for the New American Century seeks to establish what they call 'Pax Americana' across the globe. Essentially, their goal is to transform America, the sole remaining superpower, into a planetary empire by force of arms. A report released by PNAC in September of 2000 entitled 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' codifies this plan, which requires a massive increase in defense spending and the fighting of several major theater wars in order to establish American dominance. The first has been achieved in Bush's new budget plan, which calls for the exact dollar amount to be spent on defense that was requested by PNAC in 2000. Arrangements are underway for the fighting of the wars. The men from PNAC are in a perfect position to see their foreign policy schemes, hatched in 1997, brought into reality. They control the White House, the Pentagon and Defense Department, by way of this the armed forces and intelligence communities, and have at their feet a Republican-dominated Congress that will rubber-stamp virtually everything on their wish list. The first step towards the establishment of this Pax Americana is, and has always been, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of an American protectorate in Iraq. The purpose of this is threefold: 1) To acquire control of the oilheads so as to fund the entire enterprise; 2) To fire a warning shot across the bows of every leader in the Middle East; 3) To establish in Iraq a military staging area for the eventual invasion and overthrow of several Middle Eastern regimes, including some that are allies of the United States. Another PNAC signatory, author Norman Podhoretz, quantified this aspect of the grand plan in the September 2002 issue of his journal, 'Commentary'. In it, Podhoretz notes that the regimes, "that richly deserve to be overthrown and replaced, are not confined to the three singled-out members of the axis of evil. At a minimum, the axis should extend to Syria and Lebanon and Libya, as well as 'friends' of America like the Saudi royal family and Egypt's Hosni Mubarak, along with the Palestinian Authority, whether headed by Arafat or one of his henchmen." At bottom, for Podhoretz, this action is about "the long-overdue internal reform and modernization of Islam." This casts Bush's speech to AEI on Wednesday in a completely different light. Weapons of mass destruction are a smokescreen. Paeans to the idea of Iraqi liberation and democratization are cynical in their inception. At the end of the day, this is not even about oil. The drive behind this war is ideological in nature, a crusade to 'reform' the religion of Islam as it exists in both government and society within the Middle East. Once this is accomplished, the road to empire will be open, ten lanes wide and steppin' out over the line. At the end of the day, however, ideology is only good for bull sessions in the board room and the bar. Something has to grease the skids, to make the whole thing worthwhile to those involved, and entice those outside the loop to get into the game. Thus, the payout. It is well known by now that Dick Cheney, before becoming Vice President, served as chairman and chief executive of the Dallas-based petroleum corporation Halliburton. During his tenure, according to oil industry executives and United Nations records, Halliburton did a brisk $73 million in business with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. While working face-to-face with Hussein, Cheney and Halliburton were also moving into position to capitalize upon Hussein's removal from power. In October of 1995, the same month Cheney was made CEO of Halliburton, that company announced a deal that would put it first in line should war break out in Iraq. Their job: To take control of burning oil wells, put out the fires, and prepare them for service. Another corporation that stands to do well by a war in Iraq is Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. Ostensibly, Brown & Root is in the construction business, and thus has won a share of the $900 million government contract for the rebuilding of post-war Iraqi bridges, roads and other basic infrastructure. This is but the tip of the financial iceberg, as the oil wells will also have to be repaired after parent-company Halliburton puts out the fires. More ominously is Brown & Root's stock in trade: the building of permanent American military bases. There are twelve permanent U.S. bases in Kosovo today, all built and maintained by Brown & Root for a multi-billion dollar profit. If anyone should wonder why the administration has not offered an exit strategy to the Iraq war plans, the presence of Brown & Root should answer them succinctly. We do not plan on exiting. In all likelihood, Brown & Root is in Iraq to build permanent bases there, from which attacks upon other Middle Eastern nations can be staged and managed. Again, this casts Bush's speech on Wednesday in a new light. Being at the center of the action is nothing new for Halliburton and Brown & Root. The two companies have worked closely with governments in Algeria, Angola, Bosnia, Burma, Croatia, Haiti, Nigeria, Rwanda, and Somalia during the worst chapters in those nation's histories. Many environmental and human rights groups claim that Cheney, Halliburton and Brown & Root were, in fact, centrally involved in these fiascos. More recently, Brown & Root was contracted by the Defense Department to build cells for detainees in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The bill for that one project came to $300 million. Cheney became involved with PNAC officially in 1997, while still profiting from deals between Halliburton and Hussein. One year later, Cheney and PNAC began actively and publicly agitating for war on Iraq. They have not stopped to this very day. Another company with a vested interest in both war on Iraq and massively increased defense spending is the Carlyle Group. Carlyle, a private global investment firm with more than $12.5 billion in capital under management, was formed in 1987. Its interests are spread across 164 companies, including telecommunications firms and defense contractors. It is staffed at the highest levels by former members of the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations. Former President George H. W. Bush is himself employed by Carlyle as a senior advisor, as is long-time Bush family advisor and former Secretary of State James Baker III. One company acquired by Carlyle is United Defense, a weapons manufacturer based in Arlington, VA. United Defense provides the Defense Department with combat vehicle systems, fire support, combat support vehicle systems, weapons delivery systems, amphibious assault vehicles, combat support services and naval armaments. Specifically, United Defense manufactures the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the M113 armored personnel carrier, the M88A2 Recovery Vehicle, the Grizzly, the M9 ACE, the Composite Armored Vehicle, the M6 Linebacker, the M7 BFIST, the Armored Gun System, the M4 Command and Control Vehicle, the Battle Command Vehicle, the Paladin, the Crusader, and Electric Gun/Pulse Power weapons technology. In other words, everything a growing Defense Department, a war in Iraq, and a burgeoning American military empire needs. Ironically, one group that won't profit from Carlyle's involvement in American military buildup is the family of Osama bin Laden. The bin Laden family fortune was amassed by Mohammed bin Laden, father of Osama, who built a multi-billion dollar construction empire through contracts with the Saudi government. The Saudi BinLaden Group, as this company is called, was heavily invested in Carlyle for years. Specifically, they were invested in Carlyle's Partners II Fund, which includes in that portfolio United Defense and other weapons manufacturers. This relationship was described in a September 27, 2001 article in the Wall Street Journal entitled 'Bin Laden Family Could Profit From Jump in Defense Spending Due to Ties to US Bank.' The 'bank' in question was the Carlyle Group. A follow-up article published by the Journal on September 28 entitled 'Bin Laden Family Has Intricate Ties With Washington - Saudi Clan Has Had Access To Influential Republicans' further describes the relationship. In October of 2001, Saudi BinLaden and Carlyle severed their relationship by mutual agreement. The timing is auspicious. There are a number of depths to be plumbed in all of this. The Bush administration has claimed all along that this war with Iraq is about Saddam Hussein's connections to terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, though through it all they have roundly failed to establish any basis for either accusation. On Wednesday, Bush went further to claim that the war is about liberating the Iraqi people and bringing democracy to the Middle East. This ignores cultural realities on the ground in Iraq and throughout the region that, salted with decades of deep mistrust for American motives, make such a democracy movement brought at the point of the sword utterly impossible to achieve. This movement, cloaked in democracy, is in fact a PNAC-inspired push for an American global empire. It behooves Americans to understand that there is a great difference between being the citizen of a constitutional democracy and being a citizen of an empire. The establishment of an empire requires some significant sacrifices. Essential social, medical, educational and retirement services will have to be gutted so that those funds can be directed towards a necessary military buildup. Actions taken abroad to establish the preeminence of American power, most specifically in the Middle East, will bring a torrent of terrorist attacks to the home front. Such attacks will bring about the final suspension of constitutional rights and the rule of habeas corpus, as we will find ourselves under martial law. In the end, however, this may be inevitable. An empire cannot function with the slow, cumbersome machine of a constitutional democracy on its back. Empires must be ruled with speed and ruthlessness, in a manner utterly antithetical to the way in which America has been governed for 227 years. And yes, of course, a great many people will die. It would be one thing if all of this was based purely on the ideology of our leaders. It is another thing altogether to consider the incredible profit motive behind it all. The President, his father, the Vice President, a whole host of powerful government officials, along with stockholders and executives from Halliburton and Carlyle, stand to make a mint off this war. Long-time corporate sponsors from the defense, construction and petroleum industries will likewise profit enormously. Critics of the Bush administration like to bandy about the word "fascist" when speaking of George. The image that word conjures is of Nazi stormtroopers marching in unison towards Hitler's Final Solution. This does not at all fit. It is better, in this matter, to view the Bush administration through the eyes of Benito Mussolini. Mussolini, dubbed 'the father of Fascism,' defined the word in a far more pertinent fashion. "Fascism," said Mussolini, "should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power." Boycott the French, the Germans, and the other 114 nations who stand against this Iraq war all you wish. France and Germany do not oppose Bush because they are cowards, or because they enjoy the existence of Saddam Hussein. France and Germany stand against the Bush administration because they intend to stop this Pax Americana in its tracks if they can. They have seen militant fascism up close and personal before, and wish never to see it again. Would that we Americans could be so wise. - ------- William Rivers Pitt is a New York Times bestselling author of two books - "War On Iraq" (with Scott Ritter) available now from Context Books, and "The Greatest Sedition is Silence," available in May 2003 from Pluto Press. He teaches high school in Boston, MA ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #201 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)