From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #196 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Thursday, March 27 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 196 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: how do you find comfort these days? njc ["Lori Fye" ] how to earn your Joni wings [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: RE Oscars & Polanski NJC [colin ] Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Oscars & Polanski NJC [colin ] Re: Previous W2W honorees [dsk ] RE Oscars & Polanski NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: Oscars & Polanski NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] george butsh NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: how do you find comfort these days? njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: w2w [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] One last W2W fun fact and then I'll hush [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: w2w [dsk ] Re: Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! [Randy Remote ] Re: Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: *****SPAM***** Anti-war/pro-war songs for profit??? NJC [FMYFL@aol.co] war songs for profit NJC ["chuty001" ] Re: Michael Moore njc [Randy Remote ] Re: *****SPAM***** Anti-war/pro-war songs for profit??? NJC [KJHSF@aol.co] Woodstock in the ailes [Little Bird ] Re: george butsh NJC [Catherine McKay ] Joni on Radio Canada ["michael o'malley" ] Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc [colin ] RE: george butsh NJC ["theodore" ] Re: Oscars & Polanski NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Woodstock in the ailes [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Polanski's films NJC [] RE: how do you find comfort these days? njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: New Gino Vannelli NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: war songs for profit NJC [Jeff Koko ] Re: **SPAM** NJC [Les Irvin ] Today's Library Links: March 27 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 10:36:58 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: how do you find comfort these days? njc Thinking of "The Ganja Line" at 2001 JoniFest. Thinking about how I'm gonna do my own version of that in Jamaica in less than 2 months. ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:40:06 -0500 From: dsk Subject: War NJC This war is so distressing. It's not surprising to me that there's such resistance there. I can't imagine it's all because of loyalty to Saddam. People are protecting their homeland. The US military planners don't seem to have considered that natural impulse. People never forget when their land has been invaded, even when they agree with the other side's position. I don't know if it's still true in the US South because many people have moved into Southern states and so the region is not as insular as when I was growing up in Virginia/North Carolina, but back then, decades ago, there were still feelings about the Civil War that had ended over 100 years earlier, and hostility passed through generations toward the North and Yankees and General Sherman, who marched his army through Atlanta, burning everything along the way. It could be as silly as me as a toddler giggling and raising my shirt to show my belly button when my grandmother or other relatives asked me to show them where the Yankee shot me (and then I got some tickling), or as intense as the Atlanta tour guide who was so indignant about General Sherman you'd think the fires in Atlanta were still burning. And that was even though not a single person believed that the South's position during the Civil War was the right one, in a moral sense. The feelings are emotional reactions to having armies march in, like having one's home forcefully broken into and rearranged. Even if the rearrangement ends up being better, there's always resistance to that initial invasion. And I can't pass the battlefields in Virginia without thinking of how many men suffered and died there. Those huge green fields are so bloody. Looking at all the war maneuvers being explained on tv, it feels so primitive. Let's capture the capital... depose the king... raise the flag. It's a deadly version of games like "king of the hill" or "capture the flag." Fun games when I was a kid. Maybe humans are practicing for war all the time, like it's something innate and unavoidable. That alone is a distressing thought. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:42:49 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: how to earn your Joni wings Ever thought, "Gee, I wish I could be a member of that fabled Inner CIrcle?" Well, here's your chance! If you know anything about formatting photos for a web page, we need your help to get the 2002 Jonifest page up and running. So . . . step forward and get ready to rock our JMDL world. Lori has offered to share the CD of software from Les as well as photos which have been selected for the page. But we need to do this quickly, so it would be great if you could start working on it yesterday! ;-) I will be away from my computer from 2 PM EST until late tonight, so you can reply to me or Lori (lori@lrfye.lunarpages.com) and/or Les (ljirvin@jmdl.com) and Ashara (asharajm@aol.com) in the meantime. (Or just click on REPLY ALL.) Thanks for any help you can give your JMDL community, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:44:29 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: RE Oscars & Polanski NJC >but I cant believe the soft attiudes here about rape and >with a minor and the drugging of said minor. I am shocked. > I wish i could say iwas shocked. unfortunately it is all to common for this sort of thing, child abuse, to be minimised and excused or dimissed as 'water under the bridge' 'or 'a long time ago'. I think your suggestion as regards his profits int he uSA going to help victims was excellent. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:48:02 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc I have been spending a lot of time with my eight-month-old (great!) nephew Nicholas. He is a joy. Being with him brings new urgency and poignancy to the need for peace in this world. (And I know he has little counterparts all over the world.) Wish I could come up with answers for this mess we're in, but all I have come up with is an idea that every soldier in the world should be required to have a note from his or her mother before going off to war. Peace, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:49:09 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Oscars & Polanski NJC Lori Fye wrote: > >I try to be a liberal thinker, I really do. However, there is at least >one place where I draw a line that I will not alter or erase: sexual >abuse of children. I honest-to-god believe that people who have >committed (note that I haven't said "convicted") child sexual abuse >should be SHOT, and I will volunteer for that job if someone will just >let me do it. I'll bring my own gun and supply my own ammunition. > i undertsand your rage completely Lori. however, the solution you suggest would just victimise the victims all over again. it would make them afraid to tell, which is hard enough as it is, would add even more guilt and fear. why burden them with even more pain and guilt? Imagine how it would feel to a child to know that the person who absued them was killed for it. Try not to think of it from a na adult point of view. Apart from which, the VAST MAJORITY of child abusers are FAMILY, and PARENTS. Imagine having your father/mother excecuted for raping/molesting you? What an intolerable burden that would be heaped on top of an already intolerable burden. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:56:43 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Previous W2W honorees And, as Patrick mentioned, all no longer living, except John Cage, who was still around in 1982. The "John Cage & Friends" Wall to Wall was on March 13, 1982. I wonder if he took part. That would be one "don't know what to expect" experience! Thanks for writing out the list, Bob. Joni's in some very tony company, where she belongs. Debra Shea SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Previous tributes: > > Bach > Schubert > Brahms > Haydn > Copland > Beethoven > John Cage > Richard Rodgers > Baroque > Charles Ives > Mozart > Cole Porter > Gershwin > Ellington > Robert Schumann > Irving Berlin > Ravel & Debussy > Leonard Bernstein > Frank Loesser > Kurt Weill > Miles Davis > Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:08:59 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE Oscars & Polanski NJC >>They were obviously expressing what they thought about his film and his other work, his ART. His past behaviour with the 13 yr. girl CANNOT and should never be excused, but it has been said by quite a few on the list already, ART is one thing, the person is the other.<< true in theory, though if he had served his time he would not have been making movies or making a living (unless they allow that in prison)- so to applaud his work is to me, in part, IS excusing not only what he did but that he also ran from sentencing...if he'd paid his dues by going to prison & then made his movies that would be an entirely different situation... i'm with kakki, it disgusts me that people can applaud, defend or excuse him with what appears to be no thought to the above irony... that fact that some are still saying that he used bad judgement or that they can't judge because they weren't there are overlooking the fact that he was CONVICTED OF A CRIME & RAN FROM HIS SENTENCING...& it just blows my mind that some can dismiss this so easily...what it says to me is that if you are talented & famous you don't have to live by the rules the rest of us do...i know it works that way in court (whoever can afford the best lawyer wins) but the fact that it works in the court of public opinion is really disturbing... i didn't see the oscars so i can't gauge the audience response but it was my impression that part of that standing ovation was for the art & part of it was kudos to the man who has been so-called 'exiled' ()() (oo) *********oOO**(..)************** * Kate Bennett * *'bringing the melancholy world* * of twilight to life * * almost like magic' * * All Music Guide * * www.katebennett.com * *********************oOO******** /_____\ || || ooO Ooo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:15:51 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: Oscars & Polanski NJC Just to clarify...I am not excusing Roman Polanski for anything and I am not condoning the sexual abuse of children or women, both of which I find horrifying. I believe he should and will get whatever is coming to him. Perhaps he suffers already. I don't know... For the record, I know hardly anything about him, don't even think I have seen any of his movies, and have no immediate plans to see any of them. I didn't even know anything about this incident people are referring to until now and still only know what people have said here. Whether or not I watch one of his movies, and whether or not it is worthy of an award, has nothing at all to do with my views on sexual abuse, and should not be used to judge me as a person. I simply do not want to judge someone I know next to nothing about based on an incident I know nothing about. I almost feel like I am being judged myself which is very strange. In teachings of both Buddhism and Christianity, it is said you should aspire to have compassion for all mankind, even if they have done atrocious things. And I know you didn't intend to single me out Susan but I felt I needed to clarify my position. Just now I was thinking of the story of the prodigal son who returns home and his father who throws a big feast and celebration because his son has returned home, who he thought was lost. Victor, who watched "The Road to Perdition" last night, a very heavy movie which makes me glad I don't live in a life full of violence. > I try to be a liberal thinker, I really do. However, there is at least > one place where I draw a line that I will not alter or erase: sexual > abuse of children. I honest-to-god believe that people who have > committed (note that I haven't said "convicted") child sexual abuse > should be SHOT, and I will volunteer for that job if someone will just > let me do it. I'll bring my own gun and supply my own ammunition. - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album, Parsonage Lane, coming this spring! Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:32:10 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: george butsh NJC does anyone notice how much his lips look like a reptiles? shades of bob murhphy's post...i have a hard time looking at his face when he speaks...i feel sorry for the reptiles to be compared to him... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:32:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: how do you find comfort these days? njc i like your idea bob...my sister is having such a hard time with her son enlisting & even though i suspect she buys the premise of this war (being of that same conservative born again christian republican ilk as gwb) i am not sure that she'd write that note... >>Wish I could come up with answers for this mess we're in, but all I have come up with is an idea that every soldier in the world should be required to have a note from his or her mother before going off to war. << ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:32:11 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: w2w bob, your reporting was amazing, thank you for taking the time to do this, i especially love your cliff hanger sentences at the end of each post! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 14:51:11 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: w2w In a message dated 3/26/2003 2:32:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > bob, your reporting was amazing, thank you for taking the time to do this, i > especially love your cliff hanger sentences at the end of > each post! I guess that comes from reading too many Hardy Boys books! :~) A couple of other notes...Kay York changed the lyric in Sex Kills to "and the oil BURNS..." obviously referring to the Iraqi wells. There was definitely an over-riding feeling of relevance of Joni's career and the current world situation. I went running at lunchtime, and was replaying Helga Davis' set over in my head, and I started crying again...while I was running! That's never happened to me before, I was really touched by what she and her ensemble did. Especially this section: "He said "I never had nothin' Nothin' I could believe in My girl killed our unborn child Without even grievin I put my hands on her belly To feel the kid kickin' damn! She'd been to some clinic Oh the beat of black wings" "They want you they need you They train you to kill To be a pin on some map Some vicarious thrill The old hate the young That's the whole heartless thing The old pick the wars We die in 'em To the beat of the beat of black wings" It was just SO powerful...to see these words being sung by someone who can express it all...OK, I guess I'm belaboring the point. It's really hard for me to put into words. Bob NP: Joni, "All I Want" Durham, NC 3/24/74 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:36:00 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: One last W2W fun fact and then I'll hush The only Joni album that had EVERY one of its songs performed during the W2W? Mingus, her most uncommercial release. Go figure. Bob NP: Joni, "Woodstock" 3/24/74 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:01:32 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: w2w SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > "They want you they need you > They train you to kill > To be a pin on some map > Some vicarious thrill > The old hate the young > That's the whole heartless thing > The old pick the wars > We die in 'em > To the beat of the beat of black wings" > > It was just SO powerful...to see these words being sung by someone who can express it all...OK, I guess I'm belaboring the point. It's really hard for me to put into words. I keep hearing Helga, too, and picturing her as she sang, and her movements became stiffer and stiffer. By the end of Black Wings it looked like she was in such emotional and physical pain she was immobile. Those lyrics could be sung with anger or indignation or self-righteousness or resignation. There was none of that in this performance. Instead, there was bewilderment, pain, vulnerabilty and more pain. And, amazingly, not in an "emoting" way. It felt real. No emotional distance. It went way beyond that one person singing and that one person's feelings; it went into the current war, and even beyond that into the suffering part of being human that most people put a lot of effort into trying to deny. And then to have the lyrics of Love as an attempt to heal that suffering... Your tears make sense to me, Bob. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:32:06 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > Sue Mingus served as emcee for the 5-song > extended set, telling lots of stories about Charles & Joni, and even dishing > some dirt on Joni & Don Alias. C'mon, Bob, you can't get away with that! What'd she say? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:17:40 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: *****SPAM***** Anti-war/pro-war songs for profit??? NJC I see there are quite a few antiwar and pro-war songs being released these days. "Pro-war" may not be the correct term. Are these artists releasing these songs to jump on the war/peace bandwagon for profit, or just to express their views? I heard Clint Black's new single "I Raq, I Roll" which is a macho beat em up song, but I read he is donating 100% of the profits to families of the soldiers. There's Madonna's "American Life", the soon to be released video where she's dressed in fatigues and throws a hand grenade during a fashion show. I didn't see anywhere that she was going to donate the profits to any cause, (but I'm not sure about that.) Country singer Toby Keith's "Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue", although not a recent song has increased his concert and album sales. $$$$$ (as he's bashing the Dixie Chicks along the way). Lenny Kravitz has just released his new single "We Want Peace" which he wrote and performed with Iraq singer Kadim Al Sahir. As far as I know, it's only available as a free download on the Internet. Fleetwood Mac's "Peacekeeper" is already on the charts, but IMO unless you're a real fan, the album Say You Will is not going to be a real money maker for the group. There's more new peace/political/pro or anti war type songs being released, but I'm just wondering if some of the artists are just trying to boost sales and profits. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:26:40 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc By looking forward to future events and so assuming there will be a future. Generally, I try to "stay in the moment" in order to quell fears. That's not working well these days, so I'm comforted by looking forward to receiving new music and the Richard Thompson concert coming up and some plans with friends and a visit from family. Anticipating and experiencing Joni's Wall to Wall was comforting. Art in every form, even the challenging stuff, is comforting because it's a tangible reminder that the creative force in humans is as strong as the destructive one now being emphasized. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:27:58 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! In a message dated 3/26/2003 2:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, guitarzan@direcpc.com writes: > C'mon, Bob, you can't get away with that! What'd she say? OK, you twisted my arm! It's not real good dirt, but according to Sue Mingus it was not a story that had been previously shared... Joni tells the story about when she & Don alias saw the scene that provided her with the ending to "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat", which she was struggling with, the line being: So the sidewalk leads us with music To two little dancers Dancing outside a black bar There's a sign up on the awning It says "Pork Pie Hat Bar" And there's black babies dancing Tonight (And she adds "Don & Me" on the S&L version) Anyway, the 'dirt' is that that same night she & Don entered a dancing contest in the club - and WON! Bob NP: Joni, "Cold Blue Steel..." 3/4/74 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:39:10 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Anti-war/pro-war songs for profit??? NJC Hey Les, is this a new filtering system that you've put in when the word "war" is used? My subject line never had the word *****SPAM******* in it (although many people might think it's spam ;~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 16:57:04 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: war songs for profit NJC IMO If Madonna does a song on the subject and donates every penny to a worthy cause, she's still going to reap the profits from the exposure anyway you come at it. So where her heart is really makes little difference. There are far better ways of helping whatever cause she chooses to support. Most high profile people would do it through anonymous donations or allowing there name or image to be used. Not trying to use the cause to invigorate a sagging career. Enough shooting my mouth off for now. Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: FMYFL@aol.com To: chuty001@hotmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 4:33 PM Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Anti-war/pro-war songs for profit??? NJC In a message dated 3/26/2003 4:29:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, chuty001@hotmail.com writes: Isn't that what all wars and popular music are about? Most likely Chuck, but I hope there are some artists who care more about the cause than the money. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:55:01 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Michael Moore njc Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > RR writes: > > > (Another fiction: all or most > > of the country is for "Attack Iraq" or whatever clever name > > the networks with their flashy graphics are calling it.) > > It's "Showdown with Saddam" on one local channel. (BARF!) What's next? "Bombs Over Baghdad?" I was flipping channels yesterday and landed on Worldlink-TV- they were rebroadcasting news shows from several middle eastern countries. The graphic on Iran TV is "War For Oil". The anchor was a woman covered from head to toe, except for her face. Much of the perspective about events taking place in Iraq was contradictory to that of the US media. (Worldlink is showing "Mosaic", selections of middle east news daily at 3:30 & 6:30 EST). From mainstream news: Haliburton, the oil conglomerate Dick Cheney headed until he was forced to divest when he became Vice President, has been awarded the multimillion $ contracts to rebuild Iraq's oil fields. Haliburton's contract may be worth as much as $1bil. Cheney still recieves a yearly wage from Haliburton, somewhere between $100k and $1mil. From alternate news (uncomfirmed at this point): Elizabeth Cheney, gay daughter of the VP, is on her way from Jordan to Iraq to become a human shield. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 17:21:18 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Anti-war/pro-war songs for profit??? NJC In a message dated 3/26/2003 4:18:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: > There's more new peace/political/pro or anti war type songs being released, > but I'm just wondering if some of the artists are just trying to boost > sales > and profits. > This is the question I raised with respect to those celebrities who rose to their feet to applaud Polanski in a swoon of indignant self-congratulatory celebration. With celebrities, no matter how sincere their intent, you CANNOT remove the factor of the possibility of publicity (profit) when determining the motivation for them taking their case to the public. They serve to profit their careers in every instance that they snag some media face-time. Whether or not these songs are pro or anti war, you can bet that these performers and their handlers realize they are sitting on a possible gold mine. And in show business, you had better believe that there are some pretty shrewd businessmen calling the shots. I'm reminded of Elton John latching onto Eminem's coattails a few years ago when his own career was at a real lull, to say the least. I was amazed that Elton, who's good friend Versace was gunned down, would jump to Em's defense after Em wrote some pretty clever but harsh rhymes about Versace's death and about fag-bashing. You can't tell me that he didn't know all along that his teaming with Eminem wouldn't be a huge media cash cow. And I'm sure that helped Elton and his handlers look more closely at the right of Eminem to express himself in his art. Knowing all of this, and the nature of celebrity, I am amazed that people give them such serious attention on subjects other than their art. Tom Sellek and Charleton Heston, experts on the Right to Bear Arms? Jessica Lange and Sean Penn, experts on foreign policy? Give me a f**king break. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 15:21:08 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Woodstock in the ailes I am hoping that one day we will get to hear Stevie Wonder's studio version of Woodstock, recorded for "A Case of Joni." I hope, too, that it's done in the same vein as the live version Joni does on the "Miles of Ailes" album. It's definitely got that Stevie funk-thang goin' on! I love this live version and prefer it to the waify original with Joni's dying cat vocals at the end. I'm sure purists will strongly disagree! But I don't care. By the way, here's the finished track listing for the ill-fated "A Case of Joni" tribute CD, which was supposed to have been released 3 years ago. The ones with stars were previously recorded and released commercially; And we get an idea of what Elton John will dish up thanks to the TNT Tribute special where he performed "Free Man In Paris" live: PM Dawn, Night in the City *Annie Lennox, Ladies of the Canyon Stevie Wonder, Woodstock Janet Jackson, Beat of Black Wings Duncan Sheik, Court and Spark kd lang, Help Me *Sarah McLachlan, Blue Elvis Costello, Edith and the Kingpin Chaka Khan, Hejira Etta James, Amelia Elton John, Free Man In Paris Bjork, Boho Dance Lindsey Buckingham with Mick Fleetwood, Big Yellow Taxi I want this CD!! - -Andrew Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:28:23 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: george butsh NJC --- ron wrote: >> > that man scares me a whole lot. he reminds me of one > of those really, really > stupid people with a huge chip on their shoulder > whove now got into a > position of petty authority, like a security guard > or a policeman, and are > now going to exercise their authority no matter what > anyone says. > > except his authority is not petty. he might well > turn out to be one of the > most dangerous men in history, with the power to > destroy and the stupidity > to use it..... > > i disliked him from the moment i first saw him on > tv. and its just got worse > since then. He has the same effect on me. My mother used to have this immense dislike of Canadian politician and former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. She said she could never look at him without wanting to vomit. I have a similar reaction looking at Dubya. It's just visceral and it goes way back to before the war in Iraq and the whole thing. He scares the crap out of me. There's a columnist in the Toronto Star who writes a column on TV. Her last few have been devoted to TV coverage of the war in Iraq. One thing that stood out for me in Saturday's column was this: "one thing U.S. TV didn't show but BBC beamed around the world: live video of President George W. Bush having his hair pouffed as he fidgeted in the Oval Office just before Wednesday night's speech announcing the launch of Operation Iraqi Freedom.Knight-Ridder newspapers reported he pumped his fist and said, 'Feels good.'" Scary, innit? If you're interested, here's a link to the column by Antonia Zerbisias: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035779709431&call_page=TS_Columnists&call_pageid=970599109774&call_pagepath=Columnists ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:01:20 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: Joni on Radio Canada What a treat it was this morning to stumble upon a one-hour tribute to Joni (en francais) on the French CBC radio programme, ``Ici tout et permis` (Everything is permitted here) on Radio Canada, at 11am. I was working away, with walkman plugged in, when out of the blue, along came Joni. Wow. The guest was an effusive Joni fan, who chronicled her musical output in crash-course mode. This was his set list: River Blue Harry's House Jungle Line Goddbye, Pork-Pie Hat Both Sides Now (2000) This put me in a mushy, sentimental mood. So thankful to see others validating Joni's talent. Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 00:32:45 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc the same way i always have-in friends. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 00:35:03 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Oscars & Polanski NJC >In teachings of both Buddhism and Christianity, it is said you should >aspire to have compassion for all mankind, even if they have done atrocious >things. > it's a good aspiration too. unfortunately, one is considered mad or bad(by many) to express compssion for those who do terrible things.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 17:01:45 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: george butsh NJC Buck Fush! Chuck Feney! Watch for stickers and t's coming soon at the soon to be www.buckfush.org - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 3:28 PM To: ron; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: george butsh NJC --- ron wrote: >> > that man scares me a whole lot. he reminds me of one > of those really, really > stupid people with a huge chip on their shoulder > whove now got into a > position of petty authority, like a security guard > or a policeman, and are > now going to exercise their authority no matter what > anyone says. > > except his authority is not petty. he might well > turn out to be one of the > most dangerous men in history, with the power to > destroy and the stupidity > to use it..... > > i disliked him from the moment i first saw him on > tv. and its just got worse > since then. He has the same effect on me. My mother used to have this immense dislike of Canadian politician and former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. She said she could never look at him without wanting to vomit. I have a similar reaction looking at Dubya. It's just visceral and it goes way back to before the war in Iraq and the whole thing. He scares the crap out of me. There's a columnist in the Toronto Star who writes a column on TV. Her last few have been devoted to TV coverage of the war in Iraq. One thing that stood out for me in Saturday's column was this: "one thing U.S. TV didn't show but BBC beamed around the world: live video of President George W. Bush having his hair pouffed as he fidgeted in the Oval Office just before Wednesday night's speech announcing the launch of Operation Iraqi Freedom.Knight-Ridder newspapers reported he pumped his fist and said, 'Feels good.'" Scary, innit? If you're interested, here's a link to the column by Antonia Zerbisias: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/A rticle_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035779709431&call_page=TS_Columnists&call_pa geid=970599109774&call_pagepath=Columnists ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 20:35:08 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Oscars & Polanski NJC --- colin wrote: > >In teachings of both Buddhism and Christianity, it > is said you should > >aspire to have compassion for all mankind, even if > they have done atrocious > >things. > > > it's a good aspiration too. unfortunately, one is > considered mad or > bad(by many) to express compssion for those who do > terrible things.... I think it's possible to be compassionate, at least to a degree. People who do terrible things have usually had terrible things done to them, so you can understand it, even if you can't accept it. Either they've been through some kind of emotional trauma that has made them at least partly psychopathic (or sociopathic, as the case may be, I'm not sure if there's a difference) or there's a real physical/ organic problem (in the brain) and they can't help it. In the case of Polanski, he did go through a lot of shit as a child, so you can kind of understand if he ended up twisted. However, even though this explains it, it doesn't excuse it (unless you can argue insanity or brain damage, and I don't think that's the case here.) I'd like to be able to separate the art from the artist, but that's difficult where the crime is so horrendous. We've had similar discussions/arguments (?) about Woody Allen (yeah, I know, it's not the same). My view on WA is, it's sleazy as hell to get into a sexual relationship with a young girl who is (sort of) in your care & custody (let's face it - the Mia Farrow/Woody Allen partnership wasn't the usual mom&pop story to begin with - they didn't even live together.) There was no blood relationship to speak of and I figure Woody married Soon Yee to prove to people that what he did is legal, so everyone would shut up about it (but they're still married, aren't they, after how many years?) I still find it distasteful, but that's my opinion - that and a dollar or so will get you a cup of coffee. OK, not the same thing, but along similar lines. Maybe if Polanski showed some remorse? tried to make it up to this girl (now woman)? did something to show everyone that he had learned something from this experience (while still enjoying croissant and cafe au lait for breakfast?) It's possible he has learned something (remotely possible IMO). It would be nice if he could show some signs that he had changed. Yeah, right. I haven't seen a lot of his films and what I have seen goes back quite a few years. Those I have seen are excellent films, but I still feel icky about the whole thing and would rather not see any more because of the "ick" factor. Moral outrage? Righteous indignation? Holier-than-thou crap? I dunno. It's just how I feel, kind of like how you get itchy whenever people talk about fleas or lice or crabs. (Admit it - you want to scratch yourself somewhere, don't you?) (Trying to practice that Buddhist thing though - they seem to have the right idea anyway.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:14:14 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc "Kate Bennett" asks: >how do you find comfort these days? Lately I'm so full of dread that if not for my little daughter, this might be a good time to try heroin. I'm told it's quite comforting. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:17:28 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Woodstock in the ailes In a message dated 3/26/2003 6:21:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, littlebird3333@yahoo.com writes: > I want this CD!! > You & me both, bro...The P.M. Dawn track has been released commercially as well, on vinyl. Additionally we've got a couple live versions of some of the rest. If this is on Reprise, and Joni's now on Nonesuch, I wonder if it'll ever see the light of day? Where's Brenda when you need her? ;o) And I prefer the MOA version of Woodstock to the LOTC one, and the Shadows & Light version to both. Travelogue version comes in a distant 4th. Bob NP: John Mayer, "No Such Thing" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:23:21 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Polanski's films NJC I agree that Roman Polanski may provoke different reactions from people, but his films stand alone not only as finely calibrated homages to human condition, but how those conditions are brought to the screen in ways other filmmakers have not done before. Having said that, I join the chorus of approval for his movie REPULSION. And I always loved CHINATOWN. The last scene with Faye Dunaway's putting on make up even if a part of her body will no longer be as it was before, is brilliant. But I wonder if some of us watched his underrated DEATH AND THE MAIDEN with Sigourney Weaver as Paulina. More than a depiction of Stockholm Syndrome and how we never really recover from a hideous past, the film was sublime, with Ben Kingsley and Richard Dreyfuss. I was told Glenn Close was beyond words in the Broadway play, but any other fan of cinema should go and watch DEATH AND A MAIDEN. Joseph in Manila np: The Great Jazz Trio - What Are You Doing The Rest Of Your Life? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:29:48 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: how do you find comfort these days? njc til it wears off & you feel dread x 2... i'm glad you have your daughter fred- cherish every moment for they go by so fast... fred >Lately I'm so full of dread that if not for my little daughter, this might be a good time to try heroin. I'm told it's quite comforting.< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:41:36 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Kakki bashing njc Gillian wrote: Who is Kakki to gauge how much someone else should enjoy > another artist's work and/or how loudly they should clap? I wasn't aware that she was trying. She has as much right to voice her opinion as anyone else. What is with all this Kakki bashing? Pretty disheartening, especially in this kind of venue where peace and love are supposed to be the flavor of which we all profess to want. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:43:21 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: New Gino Vannelli NJC bryan wrote: and looked up Gino Vannelli (I know some of you have mentioned > earlier that you like Gino). Love him. Madly. Thanks for the info Bryan. Will be looking for that one. mack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 22:51:33 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > "Kate Bennett" asks: > > >how do you find comfort these days? > > > Lately I'm so full of dread that if not for my > little daughter, this might be a good time to try > heroin. I'm told it's quite comforting. > Good thing you have the kid then. I find playing my guitar comforting, unless I'm having one of those days/nights where my playing is really crappy. Last night I was practicing my classical stuff and it was a big mess, worse than I've done in a long time. So I picked up the other guitar and played some Joni and other stuff and that worked out just fine, thank you very much - I think the tears on the steel strings make the sound come out sweeter LOL. I had just had a fight with my daughter (16 yrs old - what fun when we both have PMS at the same time! My poor son - what MUST he think? If he doesn't end up totally screwed up, then I guess I haven't done my job properly. Even our pets are all female, so he's on his own.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:11:45 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Woodstock in the aisles - what happened to this tribute cd? plus wall to wall commentary andrew wrote: The ones >with stars were previously recorded and released >commercially; And we get an idea of what Elton John >will dish up thanks to the TNT Tribute special where >he performed "Free Man In Paris" live: > kd lang sang 'help me' in the same concert . and in 'joni's jazz' in central park '99, duncan sheik sang 'court and spark' and chaka sang the f*ck out of hejira. i actually pulled out my tapes of joni's jazz this week, inspired by wall to wall, and listened to the whole show. what an amazing evening, including some extreme highlights i'd forgotten about. toshi reagon opened the show with an absolutely incendiary 'trouble child' and in the second half, the 'hejira' play-through, toshi got to sing 'black crow'. fecking amazing. back to the unreleased tribute, i wonder if elvis costello put down his 'edith and ' with the Mingus Big Band? sue mingus, mentioned that the band had created that arrangement because they worked with elvis c... that could be cool, or it could be horrible (costello not the most flexible vocalist about...) patrick, who could imagine the tribute album sucking holy pond water, but still would love to hear it! np - john adams - century rolls >PM Dawn, Night in the City >*Annie Lennox, Ladies of the Canyon >Stevie Wonder, Woodstock >Janet Jackson, Beat of Black Wings >Duncan Sheik, Court and Spark >kd lang, Help Me >*Sarah McLachlan, Blue >Elvis Costello, Edith and the Kingpin >Chaka Khan, Hejira >Etta James, Amelia >Elton John, Free Man In Paris >Bjork, Boho Dance >Lindsey Buckingham with Mick Fleetwood, Big Yellow >Taxi > >I want this CD!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:47:04 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Kakki bashing njc Mack wrote: > Gillian wrote: > > Who is Kakki to gauge how much someone else should enjoy > > another artist's work and/or how loudly they should clap? > > I wasn't aware that she was trying. She has as much right to voice her > opinion as anyone else. What's ironic is that I thought I'd conveyed my extremely mixed emotions over the whole situation and did state I didn't know what people should have done regarding their applause. More troubling is that what I expressed was not understood and this statement by Gillian implies I should shut up because I am not a great famous artiste but some mere female peasant that should know her place. Shades of the (neverending) "your notches liberation doll" theme. > Pretty disheartening, especially in this kind of venue where peace and love are > supposed to be the flavor of which we all profess to want. Examples of peace and love speak for themselves here. They are not a automatic given here or in life outside of here. Saying it doesn't make it so. But as in real life, it can exist here and you know when it is real. Thanks, Mack. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 00:01:02 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: how do you find comfort these days? njc Oh, I do. - -Fred In a message dated 3/26/2003 10:29:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > > til it wears off & you feel dread x 2... > > i'm glad you have your daughter fred- cherish every moment for they go by so > fast... > > fred >Lately I'm so full of dread that if not for my little daughter, this > might be a good time to try heroin. I'm told it's quite > comforting.< ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:53:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Koko Subject: Re: war songs for profit NJC FWIW, Dylan said that he never bought into the whole protest scene in the 60's. He also said he wrote "Masters of War" because he knew it would sell. Take that for what it is, a quote from Bobby, which are sometimes a telling truth, sometimes a flat lie, but mostly a little bit of both. - --- chuty001 wrote: > IMO If Madonna does a song on the subject and donates every penny to > a worthy > cause, she's still going to reap the profits from the exposure anyway > you come > at it. So where her heart is really makes little difference. There > are far > better ways of helping whatever cause she chooses to support. Most > high > profile people would do it through anonymous donations or allowing > there name > or image to be used. Not trying to use the cause to invigorate a > sagging > career. > > Enough shooting my mouth off for now. > > Chuck > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: FMYFL@aol.com > To: chuty001@hotmail.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Anti-war/pro-war songs for profit??? > NJC > > > In a message dated 3/26/2003 4:29:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > chuty001@hotmail.com writes: > > > Isn't that what all wars and popular music are about? > > > Most likely Chuck, but I hope there are some artists who care more > about the > cause than the money. ===== Trade list: http://db.etree.org/koko "I DO know what my songs are about. Oh, some are about four minutes; some are about five. And some, believe it or not, are about eleven or twelve." -- Bob Dylan Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:36:24 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: **SPAM** NJC At 3/26/2003 02:39 PM, FMYFL@aol.com wrote: >Hey Les, is this a new filtering system that you've put in when the word >"war" is used? My subject line never had the word *****SPAM******* in it >(although many people might think it's spam ;~) It's a new filtering system that Jeff at Smoe has instituted. I'm rather surprised to see it actually alter the subject line and am not sure exactly what triggered it. I'll keep my eye on it! Les ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 02:20:24 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: March 27 On March 27 the following items were published: 1988: "Joni Mitchell Brushes up her Style" - Detroit Free Press (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=970 1998: "Morning Becomes Eclectic" - KCRW-FM (Interview - Audio Transcription) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=748 ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #196 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)