From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #194 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 26 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 194 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: joni missing in action on UNC-TV... [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC Re: More quotes from the program [frasere@intergate.ca] RE: Michael Moore NJC [John Low ] Re: (anti)War songs njc ["chuty001" ] RE: (anti)War songs njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Michael Moore njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: (anti)War songs njc ["theodore" ] RE: Michael Moore njc ["Heather" ] Wall to Wall, Part 5 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: (anti)War songs njc ["chuty001" ] Re: (anti)War songs njc [FredNow@aol.com] RE: (anti)War songs njc ["theodore" ] Re: (anti)War songs njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: (anti)War songs njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: (anti)War songs njc ["theodore" ] Wall to Wall, Part 6 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #193 - Dan Hartman Cause of Death [BRYAN8847@aol.co] Re: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 4 NJC [hell ] Re: FW: oscars njc ["Steve Polifka" ] Re: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 4 NJC [Mags N Brei ] re: Dark Cafe Days Amongst Us ["mia ortlieb" ] Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: FW: oscars njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Mitchell Both Sides Then and Now [Moogs ] New Gino Vannelli NJC [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: FW: oscars njc ["kakki" ] Re: (anti)War songs njc [FredNow@aol.com] 2 more lists ["walterphil" ] Re: : Dark Cafe Days Amongst Us [Rdalindley@aol.com] Re: Oscars; no Moore, no Polanski, no war content( njc) ["kakki" and apparently they have > chosen not to air the program. So now they have to change their name to UNJC-TV! :~) Warren, you up for a road trip? Come on down and watch it with me...although I better check and see if it'll be broadcast here. Probably pre-empted for hawg-callin'. Bob NP: The Replacements, "I'm Satisfied" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:17:57 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: NJC Re: More quotes from the program Bob, I think your reports have been awesome!! I can just picture you sitting there with pen and paper in hand! Wonderful job, and thanks for sharing your enthusiasm. Now if ONLY we could get the CD set! Best, Stephen in Vancouver NP: Rachel Davis > know if it was *magic*, but it WAS pretty friggin' awesome! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:23:36 -0800 (PST) From: John Low Subject: RE: Michael Moore NJC John in Sydney here - I only saw brief snippets of the oscars on the tv news and, in my case, it certainly wasn't Michael Moore's opinions I objected to but rather his clothes! To see my role model in scruffiness dressed in a dinner suit ... aaagh!!! I felt betrayed! Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:28:19 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc Bruce Cockburn- Going down slow Lovers in a dangerous time Peggy's kitchen wall Rocket launcher And many many more ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:29:58 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: (anti)War songs njc fred >>Good pick, Kate. Puts it all into stark perspective. "Too much fucking perspective," to quote David St. Hubbins. It really expresses the anger I've been feeling, especially, as the father of a 3 year old, this line: "You've thrown the worst fear/That can ever be hurled/Fear to bring children/Into the world."<< fred thanks for posting those potent lyrics to 'masters of war' i know how you feel having a young son fred, my son is probably out of the ranks of being eligible but who really knows what is to come...i do have 2 other extended family members in the service (one who left last week for kuwait- a young woman with a daughter - she is a single parent) & i have several friends with kids over there now... my beloved nephew is going in next month (of all times to join up)... but i'm proud of him & his decision even while i am sickened & furious at those who call the shots & yet have none of their loved ones who are at risk (save one congressman)... i cannot tell my nephew what i have heard from so many veterans of vietnam & the first gulf war- about how they went in so young & brave, feeling how they were doing the honorable thing & serving their country only to find out it was not like that at all--- to the point that many who once served now oppose this war... then there is the whole issue of veteran's health benefits...a long standing problem for those who we call our heros...its disgusting... congress just approved a tax cut of $25 billion to veterans benefits just as we have started this war...talk about an axis of evil... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:40:50 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Michael Moore njc --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > RR writes: > > > (Another fiction: all or most > > of the country is for "Attack Iraq" or whatever > clever name > > the networks with their flashy graphics are > calling it.) > > It's "Showdown with Saddam" on one local channel. > (BARF!) What's next? "Bombs Over Baghdad?" > The whole thing is repulsive, isn't it? It's like the whole thing is just another "reality" show. Like Survivor maybe? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:57:58 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: (anti)War songs njc Howabout "one tin soldier" also "jeremiah was a bullfrog"(I love this song right now) also The Dead Kennedy's "holiday in Cambodia" Crass "Nagasaki Nightmare" the clash "tommy gun," "Spanish bombs," "the card cheat,(from the hundred year's war to the crimea with lance and the musket and the roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the king)" the clash "death or glory,(every cheap hood strikes a bargain with the world, ends up making payments on a sofa or a girl)" the clash "clampdown,(youu start wearing blue and brown, and working for the clampdown)" the clash "guns of brixton (when they kick out your front door, how you gonna come?, with your hands on your head or the trigger of your gun?)." Bob Marley "redemption song." Curtis Mayfield "got to have peace (and the soldier's who are dead and gone if only we could bring back one, they'd say we got to have peace)" cat stevens "peace train" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of FredNow@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 5:02 PM To: joni@smoe.org Cc: kate@katebennett.com; kellerfrau@gmx.de Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc "Moni Kellermann" writes: > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Bennett" > Subject: War songs njc > > > > did anyone mention dylan's 'masters of war'? the 30th > anniversary dylan > > tribute has a killer version by eddie vedder > > KILLER version? > > hm... > > "peace", > moni "Killer" ... as in Dylan's mentor Woody Guthrie's famous scrawl on his guitar: "This machine kills fascists." Good pick, Kate. Puts it all into stark perspective. "Too much fucking perspective," to quote David St. Hubbins. It really expresses the anger I've been feeling, especially, as the father of a 3 year old, this line: "You've thrown the worst fear/That can ever be hurled/Fear to bring children/Into the world." - -Fred Masters of War - Bob Dylan Come you masters of war You that build all the guns You that build the death planes You that build the big bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks You that never done nothin' But build to destroy You play with my world Like it's your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain You fasten the triggers For the others to fire Then you set back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion As young people's blood Flows out of their bodies And is buried in the mud You've thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world For threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain't worth the blood That runs in your veins How much do I know To talk out of turn You might say that I'm young You might say I'm unlearned But there's one thing I know Though I'm younger than you Even Jesus would never Forgive what you do Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul And I hope that you die And your death'll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I'll watch while you're lowered Down to your deathbed And I'll stand o'er your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:02:08 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: Michael Moore njc I have thought this very same thing. The major network news broadcasts are so polished and slick. No wonder the rest of the world thinks we are huge jerks! We have all these *reality* shows which they may, in their minds, think that this IS what it is like to live in the United States. Good gawd! Heather - who likes living in the world of *unreality* ;-) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:41 PM To: Murphycopy@aol.com; Randy Remote; myrtlmoo@ticon.net; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Michael Moore njc Bob wrote: > It's "Showdown with Saddam" on one local channel. > (BARF!) What's next? "Bombs Over Baghdad?" > Then Catherine: The whole thing is repulsive, isn't it? It's like the whole thing is just another "reality" show. Like Survivor maybe? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:04:22 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Wall to Wall, Part 5 In a message dated 3/25/2003 9:19:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, frasere@intergate.ca writes: > Wonderful job, and thanks for sharing your enthusiasm. > Thanks, Stephen! I know that lots of JMDLer's would have love to have been there but couldn't make it for one reason or another. Hopefully I'm helping to bring it to life. OK, so let's get back to it: Burnt Sugar ~ The Arkestra Chamber - The Jungle Line, A Strange Boy: SO this section featured Violin, Cello, Guitar, Piano, Synthesizer, Bass, Drums, and vocals. One of the vocalists sang right into the mic and the other sang through a voice manipulator of sorts. And each person was directed by Greg Tate, with his back to the audience, who would point to someone and bring them in, out, up, down like a conductor which is I suppose what I was. Some of this was accessible and some was not, but I didn't dislike it. It certainly was not your Mom's Joni Mitchell. I wondered what Joni would have thought of this one. Dana Hanchard - The Wolf That Lives In Lindsay: Can you believe it, we got twice as many 'Lindsays' than we did BYT's! Well, it WAS New York. The program shows Dana singing to guitar accompaniment, but as I recall it she accompanied herself on the keyboard. Whichever, it was fabulous, the combination of her smoky jazzy voice and the haunting 'Lindsay'. Elliott Sharp's Terraplane - Shadows And Light: This was an instrumental, with Ellioot playing an electric steel guitar, and drums & bass. It was good when they stuck to the song, but Mr. Sharp got a little show-offy at times and it dimished the performance. Still, worthwhile as this song is rarely covered. Gregory Douglas & Jeremy Mendocino - Court & Spark, Free Man In Paris: Some of you caught these guys at the Club Passim tribute. Young, very young, with the enthusiasm of youth, and a LOT of enthusiasm for Joni. Gregory sang and played piano, Jeremy played acoustic guitar. Superb vocals, right on the money. I liked these guys a lot. Nora York - Both Sides Now, Sex Kills, The Fiddle & The Drum: Nora introduced this piece as a "Triptych" that she assembled as a soundtrack for a film project about Viet Nam. She said that when she asked a soldier what song evoked Viet Nam for him her answered "Both Sides Now". She had a razor-sharp crackerjack of a band, including Claire Daly on a baritone sax as big as she was, and Allison Miller on Drums. Like Helga Davis' presentation, this was presented as a single piece, with segues from song to song and also she inserted sounds like helicopters and war noise. Sex Kills was INCREDIBLE. This is the way Sex Kills was meant to be, edgy and rocking, not smothered with orchestra. Nora's great, her voice is very soulful and she was a real crowd-pleaser. Melba Joyce - Harlem in Havana: Speaking of crowd pleasers...OMIGOD! Melba is an older NYC jazz singer, and she played with this one and sang it like it was a standard. She had the audience in the palm of her hand, singing to Lanny Meyers accompaniment. It saddened me to think that most of the Joni fans in the audience had probably never heard this song before. I couldn't believe she was only doing this one number, then I saw that she was due back up with The Mingus Big Band - whew! Carole Pope - Down To You, Raised On Robbery: I felt so foolish, because I had heard SO many good things about her, and when I saw that she was doing "Down To You", one of my top 5 Joni songs, I whispered to Heather that this was going to be killer. And I started out right...Rob Prusse, her pianist, was right on with the keyboard beginning, really nice. But then, Carole started singing, and she sucked. It was as if she had never heard the song before and was trying to wing it. Missed many notes, never picked up the rhythm of the song, barely emoted what is one of Joni's most powerful songs lyrically. Very disappointing. 'Robbery' was slightly better, but with just a piano backing up it missed the punch that a full band could have given it. The Four Bags with David Garland - Songs To Aging Children Come, Turbulent Indigo: This guy David Garland must have provided lots of funding for Symphony Space and they promised him he could perform. Wow, he was the el-stinko worst of the day by a mile. Absolutely no sense of anything, pitch, rhythm, you name it. I guarantee you that ANY of us in the audience could have jumped on stage and done better than him. The most embarrassing was when he sang to what he thought was some kind of effect "Turbulent Indigo-wo-wo-wo"...I really felt embarrassed for him. He literally drove Patrick out of the building! The Four Bags - Wild Things Run Fast, Help Me: So David left, and not a moment too soon. The musicians stayed and they fared much better. I'm thinking these guys are either in college (Julliard?) or freshly out, and they were really very capable players on accordian, clarinet, trombone, guitar. They were tight. They had the eclectic sound of They Might Be Giants, especially when they played "Help Me" as a polka, which the audience including me LOVED! Very playful and fun. OK, time to close this one out...we're not close to done yet. Bob NP: Billy Joel, "Say Goodbye To Hollywood" 5/16/77 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:16:32 -0500 From: "chuty001" Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc - ----- Original Message ----- From: "theodore" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:57 PM Subject: RE: (anti)War songs njc > Howabout "one tin soldier" also "jeremiah was a bullfrog"(I love this > song right now) also > The Dead Kennedy's "holiday in Cambodia" > Crass "Nagasaki Nightmare" > the clash "tommy gun," "Spanish bombs," "the card cheat,(from the > hundred year's war to the crimea with lance and the musket and the roman > spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of > the king)" the clash "death or glory,(every cheap hood strikes a bargain > with the world, ends up making payments on a sofa or a girl)" the clash > "clampdown,(youu start wearing blue and brown, and working for the > clampdown)" the clash "guns of brixton (when they kick out your front > door, how you gonna come?, with your hands on your head or the trigger > of your gun?)." > Bob Marley "redemption song." > Curtis Mayfield "got to have peace (and the soldier's who are dead and > gone if only we could bring back one, they'd say we got to have peace)" > cat stevens "peace train" COOL Now were talking Marley's - War(from the Selassie speech) Specials - Man at C&A LKJ - De Eagle&theBear but once again off in another direction Hubert Laws-What do you think of this world now Chuck ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:15:44 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc In a message dated 3/25/2003 9:29:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > > fred thanks for posting those potent lyrics to 'masters of war' > > i know how you feel having a young son fred Daughter, actually. She's the dearest thing in our life, and in that sense she makes this all a little easier to deal with; she's something overwhelmingly bright and real in an increasingly dark and surreal world. But I fear terribly for her future, not so much as potential cannon fodder (although that's always a concern) but just that I think we're in for a long, long apocalyptic stretch. Forget about piddling regime change, I'm talking about the fall of an empire ... ours. I don't think I'm being overly dramatic; it happens to all empires and it's the height of hubris to think it can't happen to ours. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:22:18 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: (anti)War songs njc Let's hope for a regime change in Washington on November 4th 2004. Our empire crumbling reminds me of a song by the guess who "share the land" "Maybe I'll be there to shake your hand, maybe I'll be there to share the land, they'll be giving away when we all live together" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of FredNow@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:16 PM To: kate@katebennett.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc In a message dated 3/25/2003 9:29:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > > fred thanks for posting those potent lyrics to 'masters of war' > > i know how you feel having a young son fred Daughter, actually. She's the dearest thing in our life, and in that sense she makes this all a little easier to deal with; she's something overwhelmingly bright and real in an increasingly dark and surreal world. But I fear terribly for her future, not so much as potential cannon fodder (although that's always a concern) but just that I think we're in for a long, long apocalyptic stretch. Forget about piddling regime change, I'm talking about the fall of an empire ... ours. I don't think I'm being overly dramatic; it happens to all empires and it's the height of hubris to think it can't happen to ours. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:22:14 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc --- FredNow@aol.com wrote: > > But I fear terribly for her future, not so much as > potential cannon fodder (although that's always a > concern) but just that I think we're in for a long, > long apocalyptic stretch. Forget about piddling > regime change, I'm talking about the fall of an > empire ... ours. I don't think I'm being overly > dramatic; it happens to all empires and it's the > height of hubris to think it can't happen to ours. This very same thought has gone through my mind many times, long before 9/11, long before Bush, long before Iraq. Every empire has to fall. It may be another law of physics. What's happening right now in Iraq, I'm afraid, may be just the beginning of the end. I don't like to feel so doomy about it, but I just have this horrible and overwhelming feeling that that's exactly what's going on right now. When I think of George Bush, I think of the psycho president in Stephen King's "Dead Zone" - I just can't get that image out of my mind. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:25:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: (anti)War songs njc --- theodore wrote: > Let's hope for a regime change in Washington on > November 4th 2004. Do American elections happen every four years like clockwork and always at the same time of year? Here in Canada, a gov't can have up to five years in power and elections are called at the whim of the current gov't (usually when they feel their popularity is high enough so they can win another one). Most don't call one before three years, becuase it tends to piss off the taxpayers, and few wait until the last minute unless they're pretty sure they're going to lose anyway and just want to hang on as long as they can. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:31:45 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: (anti)War songs njc Yup. Here the votes sometimes don't really count. Like more people can vote for your opponent, but, wait, there is some archaic technicality in the law and by george the wrong guy gets in. then we have four years of some crack head Texan killing children on some whim. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 7:25 PM To: theodore; FredNow@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: (anti)War songs njc --- theodore wrote: > Let's hope for a regime change in Washington on > November 4th 2004. Do American elections happen every four years like clockwork and always at the same time of year? Here in Canada, a gov't can have up to five years in power and elections are called at the whim of the current gov't (usually when they feel their popularity is high enough so they can win another one). Most don't call one before three years, becuase it tends to piss off the taxpayers, and few wait until the last minute unless they're pretty sure they're going to lose anyway and just want to hang on as long as they can. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:32:23 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Wall to Wall, Part 6 Fred Hersch - My Old Man, All I Want, River: Some of has have already heard Fred do My Old Man, so we know of his supreme accomplishments and abilites as a jazz pianist. He intro's his set by saying that he was one of the lucky first musicains contacted about the gig, and he immediately jumped at the chance and picked 3 songs from the masterpiece Blue. Fred's love for these compositions really shone through, as he played the familiar melodies, augmented the chords with jazz notes, and played tasteful solos that always complemented and never showboated. I could listen to him all night, he was simply fabulous. The standing O he received made me think that others felt the same way. Greg Osby - Tax Free, Ethiopia: I had no idea what to expect with this one. I didn't know that Greg is a fixture on the jazz scene and is based in St. Louis. He played alto sax, and led his trio (stand-up bass and guitar) in classic jazz treatments of these two never-before covered DED tunes. After playing the basic melodic line, Greg would solo and then Mike Moreno, his guitarist, would solo. Very clean & melodic solos, and they knew when enough was enough and when to turn it back over. Greg proved the musical viability of these oft-neglected melodies. Tamar-Kali - Silky Veils Of Ardor: OK, I admit it...I don't recall much about this one, so it must not have been very memorable. A pity too, because I love 'Veils'. Julien Fleischer - The Last Time I Saw Richard, The Circle Game: Julien's 2nd appearance, back on guitar but this time with Tom Murray on clarinet and Matthew Fries on piano. Both of these were top-notch, the addition of clarinet on 'Richard' was a very welcome color. With 'Circle Game', Julien coaxed the audience to join in on the chorus, reminding us "the more out of tune voices, the better". Again, his naturally warm vocals suited the song and raised it above the cliche it can sometimes be. Sussan Deyhim - Jericho: This one was tough to take. As has been stated, Sussan sang this one in a middle Eastern wail with her chin at a quiver, and it was not comfortable to watch or hear. Not that it was bad, far from it. it's just that it was a style that most of our ears were not accustomed to hearing. Still, I was relieved that she only did the one number. Brandon Ross - Off Night Backstreet: Brandon was Sussan Deyhim's guitarist, and he stayed onstage and was joined by another dreadlocked guy on the bass. This was an effective piece, Brandon played his own arrangement, and seemed to avoid some of the trickier chord progressions in the song. Still, it was very soulful and enjoyable. OK, closing this one for now, because the Mingus Big Band is up next!! Bob NP: Billy Joel, "Josephine" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:36:10 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #193 - Dan Hartman Cause of Death I don't know if anyone else answered this....I didn't find the actual cause of Dan's death on danhartman.com, though I didn't look too thoroughly for it. It does mention that he was HIV-positive, but I remember at the time of his death, HIV/AIDS was not the publicized cause (I seem to remember reading at the time that it was a cerebral hemmorage or something like that). I liked his work; "I Can Dream About You" was a very good one and one of the better "disco" songs. Bryan Not to be morose, but....another musician death that may have slipped under the radar screen unnoticed was that of Nicollete Larson. She was an artist of considerable talent and a protege (and friend) of Neil Young, I believe. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:12:29 -0800 (PST) From: hell Subject: Re: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 4 NJC Bob wrote: > I concur Debra...I may just make it an annual trek as I just love the > concept. Although I would definitely skip it when they did those > classical dudes. Oh, come on, Bob! Surely you wouldn't miss those? Imagine 12 non-stop hours of Handel's Messiah?! Hell NP: Amy Ray - Laramie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:20:33 -0600 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc Everybody looks so ill at ease So distrustful, so displeased Running down the table, I see a borderline... Good or bad We think we know As if thinking makes things so All convictions grow along a borderline... You snipe so steady, snub so snide So ripe and ready to diminish and deride You're quick to condescend- my opinionated friend All you deface, all you defend Is just a Borderline... Steve (Just a borderline- like on a state map...) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mack watson-bush" To: "joni" Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 6:10 PM Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc > ric wrote: > > > > well, i am misunderstood apparently, which is, i'm sure, my fault. > > and who else could be at fault? they were your words, weren't they? > > but, > > just for the record, before the self righteous pontification gets out of > > hand, > > like to sling the mud. as for self righteous, both of your posts are > nothing but. > > i was never saying that child abuse or sexual molestation is anything > > anyone should EVER make excuses for. > > but you did, didn't you? > > i suppose at least part of what i was > > trying to say was that, unlike kakki, i try not to make my moral > judgements > > based on things i read in some supermarket tabloid. > > you couldn't possibly have any idea why kakki has made the judgements, if > she has, that she has made, since this happened many, many years ago. > > i have no idea what > > happened between mr. polanski and this girl. i can think of reasons why > > BOTH of them might have cause to lie about what went on. > > the bottom line is that she was 13, he was an adult. can you not understand > that? > > but, bottom line, > > i wasn't there. were YOU kakki? > > why the obvious rancor for kakki? you write more positively of this > CONVICTED child abuser than you do of her. Strange. > > le there's certainly no shortage of people who can be morally certain over > > things they know nothing about, i'm proud not to be one of them. > > well, at least you are proud of yourself. good for you. As for writing > about things we know nothing about, I would write that you and no one else > here knows anymore than anyone else unless you were there when polanski did > his deed with her. > > > > ah! supper time... > > something needs to go into that mouth. > > > mack > > > > > > > > ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:15:14 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 4 NJC or the lard ascending. okay enough already. off to dreamland. moogs. hell wrote:Bob wrote: > I concur Debra...I may just make it an annual trek as I just love the > concept. Although I would definitely skip it when they did those > classical dudes. Oh, come on, Bob! Surely you wouldn't miss those? Imagine 12 non-stop hours of Handel's Messiah?! Hell NP: Amy Ray - Laramie You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:20:04 -0600 From: "mia ortlieb" Subject: re: Dark Cafe Days Amongst Us Hi Rob , Welcome to the List! Any chance Dark Cafe Days might make its way up to Milwaukee? This town is severely Joni-deprived. Mia NP: Joni and James - California _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 23:23:09 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Wall to Wall, Part 7 & last - Whew!! After Brandon's subdued presentation, the emcee (there were several throughout the day, all DJ's from WFUV) announced that there would be a short break while they set up for The Mingus Big Band. It didn't take long, and soon everything was in place. Sue Mingus served as emcee for the 5-song extended set, telling lots of stories about Charles & Joni, and even dishing some dirt on Joni & Don Alias. The 14-piece band swung as they supported the following vocalists: Andy Bey - A Chair In The Sky: Andy's chocolate-velvet voice was a perfect choice for this song. Of course, as with all of these, The Mingus Big Band has played them many times, so there was a strong professionalism present. Dana Hanchard - Sweet Sucker Dance: Dana came back after her lovely turn on 'Lindsay' and did a super job. The band played flawlessly behind her, and each song included some nice solos by saxophonists, trumpets, and behind the rhythm section was a 19-year old who played 'big band' style drume to perfection! Bonus points to Heather who recognized Randy Brecker in the band. Julien Fleischer - Edith And The Kingpin: The only non-Mingus selection, they had the arrangement from their work with Elvis Costello, and for his third appearance Julien was 3-for-3. Reminded me of seeing Jason Marsalis' set at Pazfest. Melba Joyce - The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines, Goodbye Pork Pie Hat: As she did previously with Harlem in Havana, Melba capably sang these two with ease, grace & style, never missing a beat in terms of melody and rhythm. Singing jazz couldn't be as easy as she makes it appear. The band really bumped it up a notch for Mingus' signature tune 'Goodbye Pork Pie Hat'. When they completed, an instantaneous standing ovation resulted. From a purely musical perspective, this was by far the most amazing performance of the day. A polished gem in every sense. I would not have wanted to be the act following that, and luckily for everyone I wasn't! That unenviable chore fell on: Jenifer Jackson - That Song About The Midway, The Gallery: And she wasn't overwhelmed by it in the least. Her performance, accompanied by percussion and guitar, was as pretty as the songs she chose. Don Byron & Music For Six Musicians + 1 - The Priest, Dreamland: Does the title sound pretentious? This was one of the most pretentious performances I've ever seen, and the sad thing is that the players here were really talented. If not for "Lord" Byron lording over them, literally shouting at them onstage, while they were playing, walking around the stage, playing way too many solos on his clarinet, and allowing the excess that ruined these performances. I mean, each song was 15 minutes long! While all the musicians were very capable, they just had no restraint. At least the performance featured a knockout Brazilian vocalist whose denim skirt appeared to be painted on, and she did lots of dancing onstage, so I had a nice visual while waiting for Byron to end, which Thank God he finally did. Martha Wainwright - Roses Blue, Big Yellow Taxi: This was a real juxtaposition, because the young daughter of Loudon Wainwright & Kate McGarrigle was as UN-pretentious as they come. She was not that familiar with Joni and had just started to play her songs. You certainly wouldn't have known as she was very good playing & singing Roses Blue (not one of Joni's easiest melodies) and BYT, which she slowed down a lot because she said she was not familiar with it (!!) She was great, but I would have like to have seen a performer that WAS familiar with Joni, like maybe Bryan Thomas! Marc Anthony Thompson - Don't Interrupt The Sorrow, Hissing Of Summer Lawns: Marc's set was also very quiet...Oren Bloedow backed him on acoustic guitar, and his voice was a good match for these songs. When a baby in the audience started to pitch a hissy fit, instead of singing "wash and balance me", he sang "wash that baby, please" which got a good reaction from the audience. When he sang "a good slave loves the good book", he repeated it a couple of times and then added 'a rebel loves applause". An interesting, provocative, and satisfying set. OK, so now we've sat through practically 12 hours of Joni covers...one act to go, and it was another winner. Ute Lemper - Black Crow, Last Chance Lost, Love: Ute was backed by acoustic guitar, bass and percussion. She made some extreme facial contortions when dhe sang but she sounded great. Black Crow started off very slowly, then she kicked it in and the Crow was flyin! Last Chance Lost was beautifully done, Ute's vocal perhaps even more emotive than Joni's own on TI. I couldn't help but watch the guitarist try to negotiate what looked like some incredibly difficult chord changes. She closed out with a fairly straightforward and very pretty "Love" and when they announced that they were going to close with Joni's clip of her singing "Chelsea Morning", we JMDLer's who have seen it again & again headed out into the New York night for some food, drink and the chance to share our thoughts about the once-in-a-lifetime concert we'd experienced. Again, my thanks to all of you who helped me share this incredible day, it's not one that I'll be forgetting anytime soon! In closing...if you have a chance to hand with JMDLer's, or catch a 12-hour Joni tribute...do it. Peace, Bob NP: Broooce, "Waitin' On A Sunny Day" 12/9/02 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 23:25:28 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc In a message dated 3/25/2003 11:15:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, polifkas@milwaukee.tec.wi.us writes: > Good or bad > We think we know > As if thinking makes things so > Theo Bleckmann wore a T-shirt with this on it during his performance at W2W...his bandmate's was "Is Justice Just Ice?". Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:32:31 -0800 (PST) From: Moogs Subject: Joni Mitchell Both Sides Then and Now If you follow this link to eagle vision... they list a DVD for sale... eaglevisionusa.com & click on music documentary Joni Mitchell Both Sides Then and Now. I confess I havent been able to read all of the list mail of late...falling behind a little..(trying to paddle that life boat as hard as I can) ....however...can anyone tell me about this DVD? Is this the one that was supposed to come out last year but didnt? Is this the one that Joni decided she didnt like? Sorry if this is has recently been discussed in light of the CBC Life and Times programme. If in fact, it's not available, I wonder why eagle vision says it is. When I clicked on the link to purchase it (I just wanted to see what would happen), I was transported over to Amazon.com with no DVD of this name in sight. btw, is it true that CD baby and Amazon have joined hands?? Moogs np: Deb Talan, Forgiven from Something Burning...wonderful !!!!! nice solstice prezzie ;-) You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 23:35:51 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: New Gino Vannelli NJC (I should have NJCd my last notice on Dan Hartman and Nicollete Larson but sometimes I just forget to do that). Anyway, I went fishing around on the web for some other singers "I used to listen to" and looked up Gino Vannelli (I know some of you have mentioned earlier that you like Gino). He has a new CD coming out in May: "Canto." Listened to pieces of it on ginovannelli.com. Sort of a pop-opera style, something perfect for him and I wonder he didn't try it sooner. Something to look forward to. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 21:18:26 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc Ric wrote here and in other posts: > i suppose at least part of what i was trying to say was that, unlike kakki, i try not to make my moral judgements > based on things i read in some supermarket tabloid. Kate and I have both referred to links that are not tabloid sources. I don't know why you keep insisting I heard all this from a tabloid source. Did you read about it in a tabloid? I even did some searches on the net of the tabloids to see what they said about it and did not find anything close to what I have stated. Would it be too much to ask you to read these mainstream news accounts of the incident, including archival news reports going back to 1977? And then would you apologize to me for what you've written? (Somehow I don't think an apology would be forthcoming). Grand Jury Testimony: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html January 2003 interview with the victim: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/GoodMorningAmerica/GMA030130Geimer_Polans ki.html News archives from 1977 - 2000 regarding the facts and events of the case from the Washington Post, L.A. Times, New York Daily News, and the Toronto Sun: http://www.vachss.com/mission/roman_polanski.html >>was THAT the extra info you were alluding > to but felt was too inapporpriate to share? you, behind the potted palm? Yeah I shouldn't have said anything further. Heat of the moment. As I mentioned before I grew up with and went through school with a family member of Sharon Tate and so have formed other personal opinions which would not be appropriate to share here. OK? > while there's certainly no shortage of people who can be morally certain over > things they know nothing about, i'm proud not to be one of them. This is a bizarre statement. He confessed to his actions and was convicted. And you take offense and call me moralistic for having a problem with a 43 year old man drugging and raping a 13 year old and for some in Hollywood to so callously brush that off? It's bad enough that she was underage but I have a real problem with any man of any age drugging and raping anyone. If you can't see why that is something that is wrong, then there is not much more that I can say. You are lucky no one ever did that to you. It isn't a question of consensual sex or who lied or who was a slut. Drugging someone unwittingly can put a person's life in danger. Sodomizing a 13 year old can also do great physical harm. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:25:38 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc The USA has constitutionally mandated national elections for president every four years; senators have six year terms, congressional representatives get two years. Presidents have a lifetime two term limit. But at the risk of getting totally dark (but not, by any means, totally unrealistic), one of my greatest fears is that the war on Iraq will drag on through next year (and/or spill into a war on Iran, Syria, Korea, whatever), and that inevitably there will be Al-Qaeda reprisals on the scale of 9/11, or even worse. If this happens before our next presidential election in November 2004, I can very easily imagine Our Glorious Leader addressing the nation thus: "My fellow Americans, because of the recent major attacks on our country and the ongoing conflicts in (fill in the blanks), I am declaring a state of national emergency and martial law. This is no time to change horses in mid-stream, and therefore we must postpone our national elections until such time when some measure of stability is achieved." Preposterous? Happens in other countries, it can happen here. Who's gonna stop him? The Supreme Court? - -Fred In a message dated 3/25/2003 10:25:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, anima_rising@yahoo.ca writes: > > --- theodore wrote: > Let's > hope for a regime change in Washington on > > November 4th 2004. > > Do American elections happen every four years like > clockwork and always at the same time of year? Here in > Canada, a gov't can have up to five years in power and > elections are called at the whim of the current gov't > (usually when they feel their popularity is high > enough so they can win another one). Most don't call > one before three years, becuase it tends to piss off > the taxpayers, and few wait until the last minute > unless they're pretty sure they're going to lose > anyway and just want to hang on as long as they can. > > > > ===== > Catherine > Toronto > > ____________________________________________________________ > __________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 00:35:43 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: 2 more lists i like the thread about protest songs--- i hate this fucking pathetic war those photos of prisoners in the ny post really did it for me tears wellin up--- and have been listenin to a lot of judy and joan sings of late a hard rain's a gonna fall-joan (dylan) there but for fortune-joan (phil ochs) with God on our side-joan (dylan) cruel war (p p & M) masters of war -judy (dyl) what have they done to the rain-joan we shall overcome - joan-(pete seeger) the dove-judy (jaques brel) carry it on-judy saigon bride-joan-boy is that one a beaut north-joan-ditto wasn't that a time-PP & M (weavers) this last one is stirring beyond belief boy do we need em now on a lighter note yes disco had a lot of good songs but what was even better were the dance anthems that developed from disco in the 80's/90's fierce and gorgeous, all: finally & we got a love thing-ce ce penniston hold on to my love-david ruffin strike it up & everybody everybody-black box (martha wash) whispering your name-allison moyet left to my own devices-pet shop boys missing-everything but the girl love is the groove-betsy cook make it on my own & where love lives-allison limerick i wish i could send each of you a tape of these 2 lists most of them are as musical and hypnotic as say, don juan's wreckless daughter xxx walt The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 02:34:42 EST From: Rdalindley@aol.com Subject: Re: : Dark Cafe Days Amongst Us "Any chance Dark Cafe Days might make its way up to Milwaukee? This town is severely Joni-deprived." Milwaukee huh? Find us a club - we'll do it. In the meantime hop in your car and drive down to see us. We perform on Milwaukee Ave in Chicago - is that good enough? Totally loving the list - not quite sure if I understand the posting and the quoting and all of that - be patient with the newbie. Rob - in the blue TV screen light ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:49:34 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Oscars; no Moore, no Polanski, no war content( njc) Wow Darice! Congratulations - he sounds very talented. (Can he get us some tickets in the balcony for next year? ;-) Kakki Darice wrote: > My second cousin won his SECOND Oscar for sound this year..... ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #194 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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