From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #193 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, March 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 193 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Vanessa Carlton On 'Big Yellow Taxi' [Murphycopy@aol.com] back to the garden [Murphycopy@aol.com] re: 'war' songs [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Moore is decidedly less in my book, was " njc MY BOY WON!" [dsk ] Re: RE- peace songs now NJC ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: oscars njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: oscars njc ["Kate Bennett" ] War songs njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: NJC Moore is decidedly less in my book, was " njc MY BOY WON!" ["Kate] war songs ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Moore is decidedly less in my book, was " njc MY BOY WON!" [colin ] Michael Moore njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: oscars njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: oscars njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: FW: oscars njc [Ricw1217@aol.com] Michael Moore njc ["kerry" ] Re: anti war songs NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: FW: oscars njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: Michael Moore njc [vince ] Re: The Younger Generation [Catherine McKay ] RE: FW: oscars njc ["theodore" ] RE: Michael Moore njc ["theodore" ] RE: Michael Moore njc ["theodore" ] Re: FW: oscars njc [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: the cutting if summer lawns njc [Catherine McKay ] RE: FW: oscars njc ["theodore" ] Re: oscars njc [Catherine McKay ] The Pianist njc [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: oscars njc ["theodore" ] RE: oscars njc ["theodore" ] Re: 'war' songs - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] joni at carnegie hall february 23rd 1972 [Mags N Brei ] joni missing in action on UNC-TV... [Warrenkeith91354@aol.com] RE: Michael Moore njc ["theodore" ] Re: (anti)War songs njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Michael Moore njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Wall to Wall, Part 4 NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] NJC Re: More quotes from the program [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: More quotes from the program [RoseMJoy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:58:25 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Vanessa Carlton On 'Big Yellow Taxi' From: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/launch/20030320/en_launch/21271 0 Vanessa Carlton On Remaking Joni Mitchell's 'Big Yellow Taxi' Thu Mar 20, 4:00 AM ETDarren Davis Vanessa Carlton and her labelmates the Counting Crows have a hit on their hands with their collaborative cover of "Big Yellow Taxi," the 1970 classic from Joni Mitchell. When asked what made her decide to participate in the recording of the song, Carlton said that she was really touched by Crows vocalist Adam Duritz's performance on the track. "I mean, I love the song," Carlton said. "It's a great song, and I love Adam's voice. I thought it was great--his voice on that song in particular was...I don't know. It was just very moving to me." Carlton said that, despite her considerable contribution to the revamped song, she doesn't really consider it a duet. "I don't really consider it a duet, but I did do my little humming on there," Carlton said. "I don't know...I can't take too much credit for the song at all." "Big Yellow Taxi" is currently Number 11 on the Billboard Adult Top 40 chart. - -- Darren Davis and Jason Gelman, New York ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:09:41 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: back to the garden Here's a link to a New York Post Travel section article entitled "Back to the Garden." (No, it's not about the NE JoniFest!) That Joni is really working her way into the vernacular. http://specialsections.nypost.com/news/nypost/travel/20030325/p47.asp --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:17:18 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: re: 'war' songs Vince replied to murph: '>"Riot Going On (Student Demonstration Time)" by the Beach Boys > > > That had to be worst protest song ever - that one really sucks - it is the one piece of real crap on one of my most favorite albums ever." ' Yes, that was an embarrassment. Mike Love trying to hip and relevant. Makes Take Good Care of Your Feet almost seem profound. I'm glad Brian never cared too much about being relevant. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:26:32 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Moore is decidedly less in my book, was " njc MY BOY WON!" "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" wrote: > > Yeah, he's good at being "anti". Where was his anger when the Kurds were > getting gassed? Not a peep. Oh, yeah, he was lecturing GM about bringing > jobs back to Flint, Michigan. Because, like, he grew up there, so nothing > should ever change, and, like, GM owes everyone a job for, like, life, okay? > Because, like, that's the way it was during his grandfather's day, okay? If > we just return to the old ways, everything would be jake again. That documentary was about a lot more than nostalgia. He showed a long time ago some of the devastating effects of what's now called globalization, things we're hearing about now in many different ways. > To me, he's simplistic, bordering on infantile. He has no solutions. He > doesn't even debate. He's a whiner with a budget. He's an activist who happens to be an artist also, and like all activists he aims to be annoying enough to get people's attention and open some eyes. That's what activists do. And then the open-eyed people can take it from there... > PS, I kind torn here. Last week I was replying to people off list but I'm > kinda intimidated, Debra. Should I keep this stuff on-list or can I take it > off-list if I promise to act like a gentleman? Jim, I've no doubt about your gentlemanliness, and we've exchanged some friendly emails in the past I think. So, your comment has me confused beyond the "what, me, intimidating?" aspect. You want to argue off-list about Michael Moore? I don't want to argue about him anywhere. I like him, you don't. His "job" is to expose truth, as he sees it (and which I generally agree with), and people being annoyed with him is a sign he's doing his job well. So there's nothing to argue about, is there? Debra Shea P.S. Michael Moore's website is http://www.michaelmoore.com/ He's really annoying there! Every day! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:31:04 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: re:disco mack wrote about disco: "Some of those tunes were very well done and had great emotions tangled up inside themselves." I've always felt that Dan Hartman's Instant Replay/Countdown/This Is It is a real masterpiece of its type. And of course Joni covered one of his songs. What did he die of? Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:52:02 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: RE- peace songs now NJC Mingus wrote: How about the entire Marvin Gaye album "What's Going On." Absolutely perfect. What is going on? Oh, I how wish I could listen to that right now. Left it back in Texas. mack np: Carole King-Fantasy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:58:54 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: the cutting if summer lawns njc Ken wrote: As I look back, I think > I was happiest cutting lawns. Me too Ken. Great days. When I remember those times, I don't even remember the green fingers or the dirt. My mom designated me lawn boy and I did it without question, for who else would do it? Girls didn't do those kinds of things around our house and my big brother was gone away by the time we moved into town. We had no lawn in the country for the chickens always ate it up. heheh I loved the feel of the grass upon my fingers and the manicured look after I was through. I loved the smell of the grass, of the summer, of my youth, and the feeling of knowing my family and I were ensconced in familial togetherness. Saturday afternoons in small town Texas with nary a care in the world. Have much the same feelings, at least pertaining to happiness, when I look back upon my paper route. Every afternoon I would pop that bag upon my back, loaded with papers from Clovis, New Mexico, and off I would go. TW-Sweet Bird of Youth. Thanks for the memories Ken. mack > > Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:59:53 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: oscars njc ABCNews wrote: > When Polanksi realized the judge intended to sentence him to more time > behind bars, he fled to France." Heather asked: > Then why wasn't Polanski held without bail? How is it that he was "allowed" > to flee to France? From what I've read it seems he was out on bail or his own recognizance after having served some time and having had a psych evaluation and pending final disposition. In other words, the court was treating him, for lack of a better word, easily. Kind of a tradition over the years towards the famous in Hollywood, if you think of it. The article I read said something to the effect that the Judge had a conversation with someone while out playing golf and said he was going to give Polanski a harsh sentence. That person told someone who was a friend of Polanski and out of fear of what may be coming, Polanski fled. I think the article also said the judge and the other person deny this story now, so who knows? But the constant that runs through the story is that when he learned, however he learned, that he wasn't getting off easily after the psych eval., he fled. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:06:48 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: oscars njc What is interesting to me is that someone could live their life with that hanging over their head. Seems he would want to come back and straighten it up and then go on. I suppose different strokes for different folks. Does seem to signify guilt and if that is the case, then how can anyone admire him in any way? mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:39:35 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: oscars njc sorry to belabour this point but i feel it is important- some have referred to polanski as being exiled (meaning sent away or banished) which is not the case- he chose to run & fled the country after being convicted of a crime... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:39:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: War songs njc sorry its just some slang that slipped out...not to be taken literally ;~} >KILLER version?< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:39:42 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC Moore is decidedly less in my book, was " njc MY BOY WON!" jim <> bob >> his passion happens to be corruption & stupidity in big business and big politics, and how our awareness can maybe bring about some change....As for proposing solutions, that's not necessarily his job as an artist.<< i agree with bob, i think moore is brilliant in that he takes on serious subjects with an amazing sense of humor & absurdity about it all...this may appear to some to be simplistic but i see it as genius... jim, i wonder, did you see the movie bowling for columbine? ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 14:39:43 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: war songs where have all the flowers gone (just posting them as they pop into my head) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 22:40:41 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Moore is decidedly less in my book, was " njc MY BOY WON!" > some of the devastating effects of what's now called >globalization, things we're hearing about now in many different ways. > I have been thinking recently about the affect supermarkets and malss have had on us. It seems to me they have destroyed community. No longer do we meet in small shops, wait our turn, talk to others, and generally keep up with what is going on. people die at home and it can be weeks before anyone notices they are not around. Yes, supermarkets and malls do provide goods that would be otherwises hard to get but at what cost? Not just money. Now e drive to the supermarket, getour stuff, and get out and rive hoem. or we go to the malls and do the same. in out small town we no longer have a greengrocer. The butchers are not proper butchers-they don't don't butcher-it all comes ready butchered. When asking one for liver nad kidneys for my dogs, he screwed his face up as he said'disgusting'. I asked him what sort of butcher he was! Big busines ahs destroyed small business and communities. Have we let them? Did we have a choice? bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:00:26 EST From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: oscars njc In a message dated 3/25/03 3:23:01 AM, KJHSF@aol.com writes: > So there are 2 truths here. 1. He is a brilliant director. 2. He has > committed a felony in the drugging and rape of a 13 year old girl. Both > can > be true. > IS it true? why? because the well informed kakki, who seems to have a persecution complex a mile wide, especially from this nihilist with his agenda, said its true? i remember hearing, and this was many years ago, that he did not know the girl and therefore didn't know her age, and that the act was consensual. and, in the terribly depressing way those cases always seem to progress, there was apparently no shortage of sexual partners who could testify to her lack of innocence. that's what i remember, but i am fairly certain ms. kakki and i don't read the same newspapers. the point is, i would guess, is that we should take these tabloid tidbits with a grain of salt, if we take them at all. in any case, i'm just going to see his movies, not hiring him to babysit my daughter. ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 15:12:10 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: FW: oscars njc I'm a brilliant guy and I was a drug dealer and a junky. I've stolen stuff, cash, shoplifted. I did some time. We are all guilty of something. The only crime in America is getting caught. The Tenant is the film by Polanski that really stands out in my mind. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Ricw1217@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:00 PM To: KJHSF@aol.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: oscars njc In a message dated 3/25/03 3:23:01 AM, KJHSF@aol.com writes: > So there are 2 truths here. 1. He is a brilliant director. 2. He has > committed a felony in the drugging and rape of a 13 year old girl. Both > can > be true. > IS it true? why? because the well informed kakki, who seems to have a persecution complex a mile wide, especially from this nihilist with his agenda, said its true? i remember hearing, and this was many years ago, that he did not know the girl and therefore didn't know her age, and that the act was consensual. and, in the terribly depressing way those cases always seem to progress, there was apparently no shortage of sexual partners who could testify to her lack of innocence. that's what i remember, but i am fairly certain ms. kakki and i don't read the same newspapers. the point is, i would guess, is that we should take these tabloid tidbits with a grain of salt, if we take them at all. in any case, i'm just going to see his movies, not hiring him to babysit my daughter. ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:28:41 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Michael Moore njc Just wanted to add my voice to the Mike Moore fans (maybe we should call ourselves Mooreons :-) I think he is unequivocally A Good Thing, for all that he is occasionally a tad hamfisted in his approach. I doubt that he would claim to be a social historian or close political/cultural analyst like Ch*msky. His brilliance is as a polemicist, and as such Bowling For Columbine is a work of genius. That said, he is clearly pretty smart, and the first two chapters of Stupid White Men, in particular, are jaw-droppingly compelling. I think it speaks well of the Hollywood machine that, despite their frequently fudged, politically motivated Oscar decisions and inherent conservatism (with small "c"), they still recognised this film as a great work and chose to honour it, despite knowing that he would not behave "appropriately" on the big night. Azeem in London NP: Christine Collister - Point Scarlet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:36:40 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: oscars njc ric wrote: > > IS it true? why? - -good question. Obviously one he isn't man enough to answer. because the well informed kakki, who seems to have a > persecution complex a mile wide, especially from this nihilist with his > agenda, said its true? - -my, kakki does have the power, doesn't she? you must be kidding. kakki is one of the most balanced individuals I have ever known and this email itself denotes persecution complex. i remember hearing, and this was many years ago, > that he did not know the girl and therefore didn't know her age, and that the > act was consensual. - -Is it true? Why? Because Ric heard it, many years ago? And not knowing her age is no excuse. He was an adult. It was his job to find out before he had 'consensual' sex with a 13 year old. 13. 13. 13. 13. 13 years old. and, in the terribly depressing way those cases always > seem to progress, there was apparently no shortage of sexual partners who > could testify to her lack of innocence. that's what i remember, but i am > fairly certain ms. kakki and i don't read the same newspapers. - -Obviously not. the point > is, i would guess, is that we should take these tabloid tidbits with a > grain of salt, if we take them at all. - -this case is far past the point of tabloid gossip. the man was indicted, convicted, and then ran away. Makes one wonder just who was the 13 year old in this case. in any case, i'm just going to see his movies, not hiring him to babysit my > daughter. i think the original thought was why we honor people of questionable actions, not if your daughter was going to be babysat. mack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:37:54 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: oscars njc In a message dated 25/03/2003 23:01:12 GMT Standard Time, Ricw1217@aol.com writes: > the point > is, i would guess, is that we should take these tabloid tidbits with a > grain of salt, if we take them at all. > This is a gross distortion, Ric - we may not know the EXACT details of what Polanski did and why, but to dismiss the whole thing as "tabloid tidbits" is to downplay the whole thing too much. There is no question that he had sex with a thirteen year old girl, who was under the influence of something. And he wasn't a horny teenager, a couple of years older - he was a man in his mid-40s. Isn't that a pretty serious crime? And what are you trying to say by mentioning her supposed "lack of innocence" - Does that mean she must have been gagging for it? Or is that another tabloid tidbit we should take with a pinch of salt? Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:47:43 EST From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc well, i am misunderstood apparently, which is, i'm sure, my fault. but, just for the record, before the self righteous pontification gets out of hand, i was never saying that child abuse or sexual molestation is anything anyone should EVER make excuses for. i suppose at least part of what i was trying to say was that, unlike kakki, i try not to make my moral judgements based on things i read in some supermarket tabloid. i have no idea what happened between mr. polanski and this girl. i can think of reasons why BOTH of them might have cause to lie about what went on. but, bottom line, i wasn't there. were YOU kakki? was THAT the extra info you were alluding to but felt was too inapporpriate to share? you, behind the potted palm? while there's certainly no shortage of people who can be morally certain over things they know nothing about, i'm proud not to be one of them. ah! supper time... ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:57:50 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Michael Moore njc I find it interesting that people are calling Michael Moore's statements inappropriate (when free speech is one thing the U.S. is fighting for overseas) and I haven't heard much about the inappropriateness of Adrien Brody's "attack" on Halle Berry. I know he was excited, but that was disgusting. Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:01:04 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: anti war songs NJC Bob wrote: > The reason I asked Alison about bluegrass-type music is that I thought there > > might be some Civil War era anti-war songs I don't know about. The only WWI > > and WWII songs I could think of were all pretty much pro-war, or at least > about missing home or a soldier . . . but I am sure there's at least one > anti-war song for every war. I hope Ali comes up with something. I did some searches and couldn't come up with any anti civil war songs. They were more one sided, north against the south, slavery vs. anti slavery type songs. As for WWI and WWII anti war songs, the only thing I found was a song called "I Didn't Raise My Boy to Be a Soldier" The Chorus : bI didnbt raise my boy to be a soldier, I brought him up to be my pride and joy, Who dares to place a musket on his shoulder, To shoot some other motherbs darling boy? Let nations arbitrate their future troubles, Itbs time to lay the sword and gun away, Therebd be no war today, If motherbs all would say, bI didnbt raise my boy to be a soldier.b I've been listening to a double CD, which has been in my car for the past several months. It's called "Those Were Our Songs, Music of WWII". Like you say Bob, most of the songs are pro-war, or just silly jingles to keep the people of the 40's in better spirits. I must admit, I love all of these songs.........they remind me of my Dad who was in WWII. Many are catchy, mindless tunes, but I was really thinking about one song as it played today "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" by Kay Kyser and His Orchestra. I like singing this song, but I thought *HOW AWFUL*. Anyway, I'm *trying* to stick to a song type post, and not my political views. I'm just sad that one of our hometown boys is one of the first U.S. casualties. I'm sad about all the casualties (U.S., UK, or Iraq). Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 18:10:48 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc ric wrote: > well, i am misunderstood apparently, which is, i'm sure, my fault. and who else could be at fault? they were your words, weren't they? but, > just for the record, before the self righteous pontification gets out of > hand, like to sling the mud. as for self righteous, both of your posts are nothing but. i was never saying that child abuse or sexual molestation is anything > anyone should EVER make excuses for. but you did, didn't you? i suppose at least part of what i was > trying to say was that, unlike kakki, i try not to make my moral judgements > based on things i read in some supermarket tabloid. you couldn't possibly have any idea why kakki has made the judgements, if she has, that she has made, since this happened many, many years ago. i have no idea what > happened between mr. polanski and this girl. i can think of reasons why > BOTH of them might have cause to lie about what went on. the bottom line is that she was 13, he was an adult. can you not understand that? but, bottom line, > i wasn't there. were YOU kakki? why the obvious rancor for kakki? you write more positively of this CONVICTED child abuser than you do of her. Strange. le there's certainly no shortage of people who can be morally certain over > things they know nothing about, i'm proud not to be one of them. well, at least you are proud of yourself. good for you. As for writing about things we know nothing about, I would write that you and no one else here knows anymore than anyone else unless you were there when polanski did his deed with her. > ah! supper time... something needs to go into that mouth. mack > > ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:04:14 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Michael Moore njc kerry wrote: >I haven't heard much about the inappropriateness of Adrien >Brody's "attack" on Halle Berry. I know he was excited, but that was >disgusting. > > I would have gladly stood in for Halle Berry and taken the full brunt of that to spare her... Vince NP Adrien Brody in my mind ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:04:56 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Younger Generation --- mack watson-bush wrote: >I don' t care what anyone > says. Disco was fun, fun, > fun. A world all its own and I was a part of it. > Some of those tunes were > very well done and had great emotions tangled up > inside themselves. Disco wasn't about thinking. It was about dancing. Even Joni has said, "Fuck it! Let's go dancing." ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:05:23 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: FW: oscars njc Something about throwing the first stone. Repulsion is another film by Polanski that is great! - -----Original Message----- From: Ricw1217@aol.com [mailto:Ricw1217@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:48 PM To: theodore@buckfush.org; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc well, i am misunderstood apparently, which is, i'm sure, my fault. but, just for the record, before the self righteous pontification gets out of hand, i was never saying that child abuse or sexual molestation is anything anyone should EVER make excuses for. i suppose at least part of what i was trying to say was that, unlike kakki, i try not to make my moral judgements based on things i read in some supermarket tabloid. i have no idea what happened between mr. polanski and this girl. i can think of reasons why BOTH of them might have cause to lie about what went on. but, bottom line, i wasn't there. were YOU kakki? was THAT the extra info you were alluding to but felt was too inapporpriate to share? you, behind the potted palm? while there's certainly no shortage of people who can be morally certain over things they know nothing about, i'm proud not to be one of them. ah! supper time... ric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:09:39 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Michael Moore njc I think he has the right to say what he thinks. He won the friggin oscar and he can thank grandma or slam bush. Hollywood patting itself on the back, a bunch of lamo's in limos. I'm proud he said what he thought, and am ashamed that american's tried to drown him out and censor him. That is un-American. So is slamming the French! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of AzeemAK@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:29 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Michael Moore njc Just wanted to add my voice to the Mike Moore fans (maybe we should call ourselves Mooreons :-) I think he is unequivocally A Good Thing, for all that he is occasionally a tad hamfisted in his approach. I doubt that he would claim to be a social historian or close political/cultural analyst like Ch*msky. His brilliance is as a polemicist, and as such Bowling For Columbine is a work of genius. That said, he is clearly pretty smart, and the first two chapters of Stupid White Men, in particular, are jaw-droppingly compelling. I think it speaks well of the Hollywood machine that, despite their frequently fudged, politically motivated Oscar decisions and inherent conservatism (with small "c"), they still recognised this film as a great work and chose to honour it, despite knowing that he would not behave "appropriately" on the big night. Azeem in London NP: Christine Collister - Point Scarlet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:10:23 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Michael Moore njc Right on! Kerry. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of kerry Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 3:58 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Michael Moore njc I find it interesting that people are calling Michael Moore's statements inappropriate (when free speech is one thing the U.S. is fighting for overseas) and I haven't heard much about the inappropriateness of Adrien Brody's "attack" on Halle Berry. I know he was excited, but that was disgusting. Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:12:24 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc In a message dated 3/25/2003 6:49:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ricw1217@aol.com writes: > i suppose at least part of what i was > trying to say was that, unlike kakki, i try not to make my moral judgements > > based on things i read in some supermarket tabloid. Why the insistence that Kakki culled this information from a supermarket tabloid? The court transcripts of the 13 year old girl's statement have been made public, and both Kate and Kakki have referenced them at thesmokinggun.com. Hardly a rag at the checkout lane. And Kakki's original post was about her disgust for the sycophantic behavior of the Hollywood Celebrity Cult in smiling and applauding and standing to honor this man. Your response came across as a vehement attack of Kakki more than a presentation of your side of the argument. I don't know either of you, but it's difficult to look at your statements about the subject when they are shrouded in personal attacks that obviously go way beyond what has been presented here. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:20:16 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: the cutting if summer lawns njc --- mack watson-bush wrote: > Ken wrote: > > As I look back, I think > > I was happiest cutting lawns. > > Me too Ken. Great days. When I remember those > times, I don't even remember > the green fingers or the dirt. My mom designated me > lawn boy and I did it > without question, for who else would do it? Girls > didn't do those kinds of > things around our house and my big brother was gone > away by the time we > moved into town. Well, here's one girl who did mow the lawn! I enjoyed it. We had an electric lawn mower. True lawn fanatics will tell you electric mowers are no good - it's gotta be a gas-powered Lawnboy. Well, now I have a gas-powered Lawnboy (that was left by the previous owner of the house) and it's old, and it's stinky, and it's almost impossible to start the damn thing. It cuts the lawn just fine, but I can't stand the stink - if I try to mow the lawn on an empty stomach, I throw up (isn't that a lovely image?) If I can get the cash together, I'll get rid of it and get an electric that does an OK job, or even one of the manual push mowers - - I love the sound they make, and the smell of fresh-mown grass is so wonderful. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:20:58 -0800 (PST) From: Darice Subject: Oscars; no Moore, no Polanski, no war content( njc) My second cousin won his SECOND Oscar for sound this year.....I have watched (listened) to Michael Minkler's career for 20+ years, and have watched the Oscars many times JUST for the best sound award. Last years win for Black Hawk Down was so amazing; this year's win for Chicago was the culmination of a lifetime's dream; to produce an award-winning musical. I remeber,in the summer of '59, going to the local movie house with Michael and his sisters to see Journey to the Center of the Earth. I was 8; he was younger.... Third generation sound man...... Darice ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:21:29 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: oscars njc --- mack watson-bush wrote: > What is interesting to me is that someone could live > their life with that > hanging over their head. Seems he would want to > come back and straighten it > up and then go on. Good point. I don't get it either. If I had done a crime, I'd rather face the music. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:25:21 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: FW: oscars njc Right on! Ken! Plus if they listed all the shady illegal stuff everyone who won awards has done the show wouldn't be over yet. Ted (drug dealer, junky, had sex with a 17 year old, stole cash from job, etc.) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of KJHSF@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:12 PM To: Ricw1217@aol.com Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: FW: oscars njc In a message dated 3/25/2003 6:49:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ricw1217@aol.com writes: > i suppose at least part of what i was > trying to say was that, unlike kakki, i try not to make my moral judgements > > based on things i read in some supermarket tabloid. Why the insistence that Kakki culled this information from a supermarket tabloid? The court transcripts of the 13 year old girl's statement have been made public, and both Kate and Kakki have referenced them at thesmokinggun.com. Hardly a rag at the checkout lane. And Kakki's original post was about her disgust for the sycophantic behavior of the Hollywood Celebrity Cult in smiling and applauding and standing to honor this man. Your response came across as a vehement attack of Kakki more than a presentation of your side of the argument. I don't know either of you, but it's difficult to look at your statements about the subject when they are shrouded in personal attacks that obviously go way beyond what has been presented here. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:26:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: oscars njc --- mack watson-bush wrote: > -my, kakki does have the power, doesn't she? you > must be kidding. kakki is > one of the most balanced individuals I have ever > known and this email itself > denotes persecution complex. I don't get why so many people seem to enjoy knocking Kakki. I agree with Mack - regardless of whether or not you agree with her politics, Kakki has never, in my mind, said anything to anyone that is offensive or rude. She is a lovely person, she has a brain, she speaks her mind. So what if you don't agree with her politics? I don't agree with what a lot of people say about things, but I still enjoy reading their opinion, especially when it comes from the brain AND the heart. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:27:38 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: The Pianist njc Well, I saw it today, and all I can say is that Chicago had better be BLOODY good - damn, I'm going to have to see it now aren't I?! The Pianist is a breathtaking film - literally. There were times of high tension when I suddenly realised that I hadn't exhaled for a minute or two. Adrien Brody's performance was exquisite; he has such a soulful face, it really is haunting. All the supporting performances were top-drawer, especially that of Thomas Kretschmann as the German officer Hosenfeld - that would have been a *very* difficult part to play, but he nailed it quite brilliantly, avoiding all the pitfalls and giving a wonderfully nuanced performance. The direction was stunning; setting aside the debate about how much someone's past crimes and misdemeanours are to be brought to bear on consideration of their current deeds and accomplishments (simply because I don't know what I think about it), Polanski deserved the Oscar. Quite what logic dictates that a film can win best adapted screenplay, best direction and best actor and yet not win best film remains slightly mysterious to me. And the music isn't bad either... Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:28:52 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: oscars njc I'd rather be "A Free Man In Paris" - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:21 PM To: mack watson-bush; joni Subject: Re: oscars njc --- mack watson-bush wrote: > What is interesting to me is that someone could live > their life with that > hanging over their head. Seems he would want to > come back and straighten it > up and then go on. Good point. I don't get it either. If I had done a crime, I'd rather face the music. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:33:45 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: oscars njc Kakki, I LOVE YOU, truly and forever :o) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Catherine McKay Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:27 PM To: mack watson-bush; joni Subject: Re: oscars njc --- mack watson-bush wrote: > -my, kakki does have the power, doesn't she? you > must be kidding. kakki is > one of the most balanced individuals I have ever > known and this email itself > denotes persecution complex. I don't get why so many people seem to enjoy knocking Kakki. I agree with Mack - regardless of whether or not you agree with her politics, Kakki has never, in my mind, said anything to anyone that is offensive or rude. She is a lovely person, she has a brain, she speaks her mind. So what if you don't agree with her politics? I don't agree with what a lot of people say about things, but I still enjoy reading their opinion, especially when it comes from the brain AND the heart. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:37:02 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: 'war' songs - NJC Vince writes: '>"Riot Going On (Student Demonstration Time)" by the Beach Boys > That had to be worst protest song ever - that one really sucks - it is the one piece of real crap on one of my most favorite albums ever." ' Yes, but it has very fond memories for me because when I was 16 I was tear-gassed by Cambridge police as I took part in an anti-Vietnam war demonstration on Mass. Ave. in Harvard Square while this song was blaring out a Harvard dorm window! Those Harvard boys always did have a good sense of humor! The other song I remember them playing that night was "Street Fighting Man." - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:38:54 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: joni at carnegie hall february 23rd 1972 Blissfully listening to a tape of this concert just now. I am curious as to what people were saying to Joni especially right before she performs Case of You. She was laughing with them and having such a grand time. Any listers that were there? Please step forward and tell us what it was like. Oh Joni sounds so young!!! so happy and effervescent. Wonderful concert, sweet relief from the news today. Mags np: joni, case of you , carnegie hall You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 16:41:13 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Michael Moore njc kerry wrote: > I find it interesting that people are calling Michael Moore's statements > inappropriate (when free speech is one thing the U.S. is fighting for > overseas) and I haven't heard much about the inappropriateness of Adrien > Brody's "attack" on Halle Berry. I know he was excited, but that was > disgusting. Good point! I bet she's hoping he doesn't have any communicable diseases...it did resemble an assault, although they left the stage embracing each other. Regarding Moore, when he was later questioned about the appropriateness of his comments, he said that he didn't check his American citizenship at the door. "Shame on you, Mr. Bush" I thought was great. If people booed, that is their right as well. It certainly illustrates the division in our country right now. (Another fiction: all or most of the country is for "Attack Iraq" or whatever clever name the networks with their flashy graphics are calling it.) RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 19:51:40 EST From: Warrenkeith91354@aol.com Subject: joni missing in action on UNC-TV... Well gang...I just received next week's issue of TV Guide and in the " Don't Miss " section for Wednesday is " Joni Mitchell : Woman of Heart and Mind." UNC-TV is the North Carolina PBS network affiliate, and apparently they have chosen not to air the program. It was no where to be found during the entire week's schedule! I promptly went to their sorry-ass website and there was no mention of it there either... well i sent them an email, polite yet to the point, and am anxiously awaiting their reply. I want to say that I can't believe it's not on their schedule, but they have pulled this sort of thing in the past. I can only hope it will be shown at a later date. That remains to be seen... missing joni, Warren Keith p.s. TV Guide had a great picture of Joni next to the shows mention... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 17:00:56 -0800 From: "theodore" Subject: RE: Michael Moore njc One friggin' guy booed, everyone else was laughing! - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of Randy Remote Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 4:41 PM To: kerry; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Michael Moore njc kerry wrote: > I find it interesting that people are calling Michael Moore's statements > inappropriate (when free speech is one thing the U.S. is fighting for > overseas) and I haven't heard much about the inappropriateness of Adrien > Brody's "attack" on Halle Berry. I know he was excited, but that was > disgusting. Good point! I bet she's hoping he doesn't have any communicable diseases...it did resemble an assault, although they left the stage embracing each other. Regarding Moore, when he was later questioned about the appropriateness of his comments, he said that he didn't check his American citizenship at the door. "Shame on you, Mr. Bush" I thought was great. If people booed, that is their right as well. It certainly illustrates the division in our country right now. (Another fiction: all or most of the country is for "Attack Iraq" or whatever clever name the networks with their flashy graphics are calling it.) RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:02:03 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: (anti)War songs njc "Moni Kellermann" writes: > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kate Bennett" > Subject: War songs njc > > > > did anyone mention dylan's 'masters of war'? the 30th > anniversary dylan > > tribute has a killer version by eddie vedder > > KILLER version? > > hm... > > "peace", > moni "Killer" ... as in Dylan's mentor Woody Guthrie's famous scrawl on his guitar: "This machine kills fascists." Good pick, Kate. Puts it all into stark perspective. "Too much fucking perspective," to quote David St. Hubbins. It really expresses the anger I've been feeling, especially, as the father of a 3 year old, this line: "You've thrown the worst fear/That can ever be hurled/Fear to bring children/Into the world." - -Fred Masters of War - Bob Dylan Come you masters of war You that build all the guns You that build the death planes You that build the big bombs You that hide behind walls You that hide behind desks I just want you to know I can see through your masks You that never done nothin' But build to destroy You play with my world Like it's your little toy You put a gun in my hand And you hide from my eyes And you turn and run farther When the fast bullets fly Like Judas of old You lie and deceive A world war can be won You want me to believe But I see through your eyes And I see through your brain Like I see through the water That runs down my drain You fasten the triggers For the others to fire Then you set back and watch When the death count gets higher You hide in your mansion As young people's blood Flows out of their bodies And is buried in the mud You've thrown the worst fear That can ever be hurled Fear to bring children Into the world For threatening my baby Unborn and unnamed You ain't worth the blood That runs in your veins How much do I know To talk out of turn You might say that I'm young You might say I'm unlearned But there's one thing I know Though I'm younger than you Even Jesus would never Forgive what you do Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul And I hope that you die And your death'll come soon I will follow your casket In the pale afternoon And I'll watch while you're lowered Down to your deathbed And I'll stand o'er your grave 'Til I'm sure that you're dead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:00:41 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Michael Moore njc RR writes: > (Another fiction: all or most > of the country is for "Attack Iraq" or whatever clever name > the networks with their flashy graphics are calling it.) It's "Showdown with Saddam" on one local channel. (BARF!) What's next? "Bombs Over Baghdad?" - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:28:24 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wall to Wall, Part 4 NJC In a message dated 3/25/2003 3:38:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: > So > Symphony Space has hooked me with this event. Now, I'm wondering who > next year's Wall to Waller will be... > I concur Debra...I may just make it an annual trek as I just love the concept. Although I would definitely skip it when they did those classical dudes. Bob NP: The Replacements, "Black Diamond" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:52:21 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: More quotes from the program In a message dated 3/25/2003 8:43:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, RoseMJoy writes: > I loved that one > and wasn't there this magic in the air Bob, or was it just me? > The audience was great! > The audience WAS great. When I first came in, I didn't see Debra right away, so I sat down for the start of the performance and carried on a great conversation with the couple next to me. They were amazed that I had flown in from SC for the event. Then throughout the day as people would come & go, or when I'd go to the bathroom or something, I'd talk to the people around me and share the enthusiasm. After Mingus Big Band, I high-fived this guy coming out of the bathroom. We didn't have to exchange a word, he knew what I meant. I don't know if it was *magic*, but it WAS pretty friggin' awesome! I would like to say that it would have been great for the whole JMDL to be there in the 760-seat theatre, but if that happened there probably would have been lots of fighting - LOL! Bob NP: The Replacements, "I Will Dare" (live) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 20:43:18 EST From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: More quotes from the program In a message dated 3/25/03 2:37:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: > Carole Pope: "She has her finger on the pulse of the human condition" > > I loved that one and wasn't there this magic in the air Bob, or was it just me? The audience was great! ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #193 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)