From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #177 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Saturday, March 15 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 177 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Laurel Canyon: the movie [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: DJRD "channel 5" ["Mick Mick" ] Re: DJRD "channel 5" [Catherine McKay ] Re: Today in History: March 15 [Catherine McKay ] Another viewpoint on current world affairs NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] re: taping Joni, Vienna Teng ["michael o'malley" ] DED ... [Don Rowe ] The Fiddle and The Drum ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: njc - talk to her (contains spoilers!) [FredNow@aol.com] RE: Another viewpoint on current world affairs NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: DED ... ["Mark or Travis" ] Yet Another Very Personal Perspective ... NJC PC whatever [Susan Guzzi ] Re: njc DED ... [vince ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #90 [colin ] Chinese Cafe [colin ] Please share with ... NJC ["Heather" ] Re: "Talk to me" [dsk ] Re: "talk to me" [dsk ] Re: Please share with ... NJC [dsk ] Re: Please share with ... NJC [Randy Remote ] Re: Please share with ... NJC [Ricw1217@aol.com] Re: Please share with ... NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: "Talk to me" [Catherine McKay ] Re: talk to me and the tuning thing [Catherine McKay ] Re: DED ... [Don Rowe ] Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's; what is the REALdifference? ["La] Re: njc DED ... [Don Rowe ] Re: Please share with ... NJC [colin ] Re: "Talk to me" [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 06:12:47 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Laurel Canyon: the movie I thought I'd read a jmdler review of this by now...I'm looking forward to seeing it. Should I be? Anyone...? - -Julius From today's San Francisco Chronicle: When Frances McDormand called Lisa Cholodenko out of the blue and said she wanted to play the lead character of Jane in "Laurel Canyon," the writer/director wasn't sure the actress was right for the part. "She got ahold of the script. I don't remember how she got it, but her agent or manager got it to her," Cholodenko recalls. "I thought it was an interesting idea, but I didn't realize that she looked the way she does now." Imagining the Coen brothers' sometime leading lady still looking like Marge Gunderson, the pregnant Midwestern cop in "Fargo," or the overprotective mom in Cameron Crowe's "Almost Famous," the San Fernando Valley native was unprepared for how perfect McDormand would turn out to be. "She came into this restaurant in New York looking like she does and being like she is in the movie, and it seemed almost like I had written [the part] for her," the filmmaker says. And what a fantastic part it is -- a mythical ex-hippie female music producer inspired by Joni Mitchell. The idea came to Cholodenko when her editor brought Mitchell's 1970 Ladies of the Canyon album to work while they were editing Cholodenko's first feature, 1998's "High Art." "We were just riffing about Laurel Canyon and the music scene about the time that Joni Mitchell lived there," she says. "And I said, 'Wouldn't it be interesting to write a film that had a female protagonist that was kind of in that mode and was somehow part of that music scene, but wasn't herself a musician like Joni Mitchell?" That thought stuck with 38-year-old Cholodenko when she started writing her next script. "She was the first character I started writing, and I knew I wanted to set a film up in Laurel Canyon. When I think of the history of Laurel Canyon, it's really about the music scene that was there in the late '60s and '70s. It's still there, but there was a certain period [around that time] where it got put on the map." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:02:46 +0000 From: "Mick Mick" Subject: Re: DJRD "channel 5" CBC it could well be but I'd always associated the "ghosts" as the film of Woodstock _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger - fast, easy and FREE! http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:22:40 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DJRD "channel 5" --- frasere@intergate.ca wrote: > Andrew, > > Where I grew up in Burlington Ontario, CBC was > ALWAYS channel 5- just like in > the States, ABC seems to be channel 7 in sooo many > cities. Think you are right! Probably true. It's channel 5 (but cable 6!!) in Toronto. And in my little town of Pembroke, Ontario, where I mostly grew up from age 2 to 12, our local TV station (not CBC, but a CBC affiliate) was also channel 5 - CHOV, the voice of the Ottawa Valley, and the only game in town back in those days when the signals from other towns and cities didn't reach us across the hills and valleys. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:23:21 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Today in History: March 15 --- ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: > > 1995: Reprise released "Sunny Sunday" as a single. They did? Where? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:49:53 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: Another viewpoint on current world affairs NJC Colin wrote Unfortunately we will be at war in a few days and yet another country is on the USA hate list. My reply......... I have been sitting here at my window with a glorious, clear, bright sun streaming in across my shoulders and thinking how beautiful all this is. I walked my dog along the beach this morning in air so clean and rich with sea smell you could taste it. Returning to my car it struck me how mad and how skewed this world is, and how all our realities, whether for or against the war, are trembling on the brink of some huge abyss; fearful of the drop we know must come, but aware (and unable to avoid) the updraft of hate and misinformation that will bear us aloft. There is no way any of us, regardles of our stance, can personally dissociate ourselves from the likely retaliatory events that will arrive in our own countries from the various factions whose axes have been sharpened for a long long time on the grinding wheel of Blair and Bush's unstoppable bloodlust. Kate BEnnet sent the UN peace list to me (thank you Kate) and it is one of about 5 I have received, and I read the wonderful account of her hearing of Bob Muller and how we are waging peace.... If only that was true of the people who are pulling our international strings....... The only possible outcome of war is more hate, Lives on ALL SIDES will be wasted, children and loved ones ON ALL SIDES left bereaved, maimed, with lives altered beyond any healing...... and each side will blame the other for the grief and pain. HOw is it possible for our leaders to set themselves up as beyond international law and unity, to chase whatever it is they are after, and drag the majority into their mayhem, to suffer the consequences of their folly? How is this possible? I am more fearful for this planet and all who live in it than I have been for all of my 46 years. I am fearful for the children of this world, whatever their race, creed or colour. What lessons are we teaching them from this episode in history? WE will reap as we sow and (although that is always quoted as a biblical epithet) it is about natural balance and currently the fate of this world is in the hands of careless farmers. I hope and yearn for some immense change of heart by our leaders so that we may all live until we die, able to fulfil the potential we were born with. Friends of the list, whatever your views on the justice or injustice of this awful situation, lets unite in hoping that some other way to resolve this mess is found, and soon. Lucy N.P. The Lark Ascending.... VAughan Williams ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 09:10:06 EST From: ROSCOE1TC@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #90 i still don't know how to respond to the discussion list....so, i have no idea who will receive this. :-) i didn't even read the whole list. i just read several people's negative feelings about "talk to me." lyrically, it doesn't rank with her finest work, but musically, it thrills my soul. i make lots and lots of compilation tapes for my less musically obsessed friends, and "talk to me" is always one of the several joni mitchell songs that i include. as a guitar player, i find her guitar work on that song to be utterly amazing. her sense of rhythm is incredible. it's almost dangerous for me to drive when that song is blasting in the car. so, perhaps people could overlook the attempt at humor or the self-deprecating lyrics and just get into the rhythmic experimentation that is so apparent on the song. just a suggestion. :-) NO ONE plays guitar like joni. NO ONE. it's just one of the reasons that joni RULES. terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 09:57:26 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #90 "Talk to me" --- ROSCOE1TC@aol.com wrote: > i still don't know how to respond to the discussion > list....so, i have no > idea who will receive this. :-) i didn't even read > the whole list. i just > read several people's negative feelings about "talk > to me." lyrically, it > doesn't rank with her finest work, but musically, it > thrills my soul. You must have done it right, Roscoe. :) I've been reading the posts about "Talk to me" and, as usual, I can see both sides (now and then.) Debra Shea doesn't like it because she thinks Joni is kowtowing and that the person Joni is talking to doesn't deserve her. I hope I read that right. And I agree. And yet... this sounds like a woman newly in love who wants to know everything about this man - and he's just not giving. She's breathless and giddy like a schoolgirl. She knows she's making a fool of herself, opening up and talking about everything all at once. But isn't that what new love can be like? It's that risk, that willingness to make an ass of yourself for the object of your affections, and hoping he does the same. Even the way she sings this song sounds like she's so eager to get it all out there that she trips over her own tongue and loses her breath in the telling. She's mad for this guy. She's foolish enough to squawk like a chicken (yeah, I hate this part too, but so what) Now if that's not making a fool of yourself for love, I don't know what is. After it's all over, that's when you sit back and say, "Jeez, I wish I hadn't said that - I wish I hadn't done that - the bastard wasn't worth it". But then, don't you just go and do it again? How human. I love this song, but I totally get why some people don't. Duality strikes again, dammit. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:17:42 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: DJRD - "ghosts of my old idea(l)s" I've been thinking over the line(s) "last night the ghosts of my old idea(l)s reran on Channel 5" (first of all - is it ghosts of my old *ideas*, or *ideals*? I always thought it was "ideals" but on the lyrics page of www.jmdl.com, it's "ideas." I suppose it could be either, esp. where Joan is concerned. If Channel 5 is an oblique reference to CBC TV which was likely the only game in town for young Joni in Sask, it's clever. I always thought this was a reference to a dream though, rather than some rerun on a real TV. She has these images running and flickeringthrough her mind. When I think of this, I see these images in black and white - that's how these ghosts present themselves to me when I think of these words. If it's a recurring (or reoccuring!) dream, then it's one that probably shows up from time to time according to the emotional state of the dreamer (this dream comes in on Channel 5 where the more prosaic stuff probalby shows up on Channel 10, community access TV). Think about channelling - couldn't this also be a reference to mediums (media?) channelling particular spirits (like Ethel Merman, for example - Hi, Smurph). The dreamstate is the medium by which the old ideas/ideals are channelled through to the consciousness to become a song or a piece of art or whatever. TV is a medium; Joni is a medium. Channel 5 is an old idea dredged up possibly subconsciously from Joni's youth in a day when TV was new but moving rapidly into the fore of modern media, changing all of our lives and society as it did; Joni is channelling images of eagles and snakes; of planes and trains; of clarity and blind desire. This song is so full of rich imagery and duality that a thesis could be written on it alone, IMO, but you'd need to be channelling to do it. NP: Alison Moyet "Invisible" ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:28:40 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Talk to us, Terry! ;~) In a message dated 3/15/2003 9:11:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, ROSCOE1TC@aol.com writes: > i still don't know how to respond to the discussion list....so, i have no > idea who will receive this. :-) We all did, Terry...so good job. I don't recall a previous post from you so let me throw a "welcome" your way. And I could definitely relate to your comments re: dangerous driving when a song like "Talk To Me" comes on. It's a lot of fun to sing, and for the most part not too tricky, except for the part that comes after her "Willy the Shake" line...very tough meter. I sang it last year at Jonifest and really had a lot of fun with it. Thanks to Marian's expert guitar work, I never got too off track. As for Debra's comments, I can certainly appreciate where she's coming from. I think thematically it has some comparisons to Jericho, in that Joni confesses some of her flaws..."I talk too loose, again I talk too open & free". I remember the first time I heard this track, she had me at "I pissed a tequila anaconda the full length of the parking lot"...one of those lines that is uniquely Joni. So Terry, now that you know how to write to us all, make a habit of it! :o) Bob NP: Jeanne French, "Mean Man Blues" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:29:47 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Another viewpoint on current world affairs NJC --- Lucy Hone wrote: > Colin wrote > > Unfortunately we will be at war in a few days and > yet another country is > on the USA hate list. > > My reply......... [...] > it struck me how mad and how > skewed this world is, and how > all our realities, whether for or against the war, > are trembling on the brink > of some huge abyss; fearful of the drop we know must > come, but aware (and > unable to avoid) the updraft of hate and > misinformation that will bear us > aloft. "Surely some revelation is at hand Surely it's the second coming And the wrath has finally taken form" (Joni and WB Yeats) In a few words: I'm scared. It's so easy to get caught up in rhetoric and shift from neutral into blind hate. This morning on the front page of the Toronto Star (Mitch Potter byline), I read about the Saddam Tower in Baghdad*. (Its real name is the Challenge Tower, but people call it the Saddam Tower.) Reading the following made my blood boil: "Rebuilt to twice the original height after it was toppled by a missile in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, the stout concrete communications spear looms a full 203 metres over this city of imposing presidential monoliths. Up top, a sumptuous skydeck restaurant... Below, a larger-than-life bronze statue of Saddam Hussein gloats in triump, the dismbodied heads of George Bush, the elder, and Margaret Thatcher lyving vanquished at his feet." Saddam must be stopped, but bombing Iraqis isn't the answer. What is? I have no idea. I'm scared and my kids are scared and I don't know what to tell them apart from, "They don't have bombs that can reach here." I'm lost for words. Iraqis have kids too - what are they telling their kids? * full article can be found here: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?GXHC_gx_session_id_=dfc469a03e2488a9&pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035779260536&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154 NP: Alison Moyet - "Winter kills" (this is a good song, eerie.) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:45:59 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Emiliano_Pati=F1o?= Subject: Re: njc Talk to her - music Wally wrote: >there's a lot of borrowing from barber's adagio for strings, but YES the >soundtrack is amazing, especially caetano's version of the andalusian song. Dear Wally: "Cucurrucucu paloma" is not an andalusian song! It's from Mejico, as you should know it by the Joan Baez version on her "Gracias a la vida" album (where it apppears in an arrangement very traditional, similar at other mexican versions I've heard of it). By the way: almost entirely of JB's album are songs from SouthAmerica (except Paso Rio & Rossinyol) someone, i think fred, wrote: >By the way, regarding Talk To Her and the Oscars, the real crime to me is >that Alberto Iglesias' wonderful soundtrack was overlooked. Well, I agree with you: In fact, the *only* award that "Hable con ella/Talk to her" got at the Goya's (Spanish academy of films' awards) went to wonderful Alberto Iglesias soundtrack. Here in my country critics seemed very cool at that movie when it released, and appreciated much better "Los lunes al sol/Mondays at the sun", a drama about unemployement (in fact it was awarded with several Goyas): that's the reason that, when the spanish academy proposed its film for the Oscar Best foreign film (not in english language), the proposed one was "Los lunes al sol": disregarding the big appeal and popular acclaim of Almodovar's work, they (me too) thought that wonder-boy Fernando Leon de Aranoa's film was better, more interesting and representative of spanish mind (although this last is no way an artistic reason, I know) Have a wonderful time! All We Are Saying Is Give PEACE A Chance! NP: Caetano Veloso's "Dama das Camelias" from "Omaggio a Federico (Fellini) e Giulietta (Massina) Emiliano ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:55:33 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re. Miles of Isles query I don't know if this helps but during the "Both Sides Now" tour at the Mars Music Amphitheater Joni said "I bought a bra, and burned my guitar and was now just a Chirp with a band." It is her way of being apologetic to her fans for not being on some type of Instrument during the show. Peace, Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:57:57 +0000 From: "Mick Mick" Subject: Re: DJRD "channel 5" CBC could well be Channel 5 though I always associated the 'ghosts of my old ideals' with the film of Woodstock. _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 11:13:11 -0500 From: "michael o'malley" Subject: re: taping Joni, Vienna Teng Well I'm reassured to see that it's not just Canadians who are having trouble with their old, defective VCR's ; - ) ! And thanks for the heads up on Vienna Teng - I'm going to look out for her CD. Michael in Quebec ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:27:32 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: DED ... Good to see everyone still kicking the DED around here. Those who remember me already know that I consider the much-maligned pooch one of Joni's finest efforts. There, I've said it again, and darnit all I'm still proud of it! Here's why I say this ... Joni's work with the then darling of the recording industry, the Fairlight CMI (computer musical instrument) is every bit as fresh, innovative and daring as any of her alternate guitar tunings, and the counterpoint lines she uses (or directed Dolby to use, same diff)as engaging as anything on HOSL or DJRD. Do yourselves a favor (all you DED nay-sayers) ... make a tape/CDR that alternates cuts from DJRD, DED and HOSL ... any selection or sequence will do ... and drive around with it for a week. It will change your life, and get you well on the road to right-thinking about Joni's work from the over-abused 80s. :-D Don Rowe (sitting in for Larry Klein) ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 09:30:15 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: The Fiddle and The Drum And so once again my dear Johnny my dear friend And so once again you are fightin' us all And when I ask you why you raise your sticks and cry, and I fall Oh, my friend How did you come to trade the fiddle for the drum You say I have turned like the enemies you've earned But I can remember all the good things you are And so I ask you please can I help you find the peace and the star Oh, my friend What time is this to trade the handshake for the fist And so once again oh, America my friend And so once again you are fighting us all And when we ask you why You raise your sticks and cry and we fall Oh, my friend How did you come to trade the fiddle for the drum You say we have turned Like the enemies you've earned But we can remember all the good things you are And so we ask you please can we help you find the peace and the star Oh my friend We have all come to fear the beating of your drum ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:54:41 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: njc - talk to her (contains spoilers!) "Wally Kairuz" wrote: >>there's a lot of borrowing from barber's adagio for strings, but YES the >>soundtrack is amazing, especially caetano's version of the andalusian song. Yes, definitely borrowing from Barber's Adagio, as well as from Ravel's String Quartet. The scene in the outdoor cafe where Caetano is singing is one of those transcendental suspended-in-time moments that will stay in memory forever. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:16:13 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Another viewpoint on current world affairs NJC i have seen first hand how the power of my thoughts create reality & i have witnessed miracles in my life & in those of my loved ones...i have done/am doing what i can to petition, write, call, protest, pray... so now, for me, it is time to put all of my energies into being & creating peace & love...to breathe it in & out...for this is a good place to be no matter what :~} there is just more of a reason to remind myself to stay in it... who knows what unseen forces might come into play if everyone who believes the words of MLK (below) is able to call upon this vision....NOBODY yet knows the outcome of things to come because the future has not yet happened & in spite of appearances anything CAN happen... it really does all come down to love & fear (fear being the root of anger, agression, retaliation...etc) & love is far more powerful than fear... others, far more influential than me have spoken of these things: "sooner or later all the people of the world will have to discover a way to live together in peace...if this is to be achieved, man must evolve for all human confilcit a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love" Martin Luther King, Jr. "the moment one definately commits oneself then Providence moves too..all manner of unforseen incidents and meetings and material assistance" Goethe ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:23:10 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DED ... --- Don Rowe wrote: > Good to see everyone still kicking the DED around > here. Those who remember me already know that I > consider the much-maligned pooch one of Joni's > finest > efforts. There, I've said it again, and darnit all > I'm still proud of it! Hey, it's DED-Dawg Rowe, defender of the Dog and all things Larry - long time, no hear from. Now we all know, if we ever want to call you out of lurkdom, all we need to do is insult the Dog. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:42:06 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: DED ... > Here's why I say this ... Joni's work with the then > darling of the recording industry, the Fairlight CMI > (computer musical instrument) is every bit as fresh, > innovative and daring as any of her alternate guitar > tunings, and the counterpoint lines she uses (or > directed Dolby to use, same diff)as engaging as > anything on HOSL or DJRD. Good to see you back, Don/Larry! And thank you for saying what I've been thinking during the past few days of DED bashing. The only thing I would add is that I've always felt that the production of DED suits the material. The title alone indicates that this isn't your typical Joni Mitchell album. Although the CBC program completely skipped everything from WTRF to Turbulent Indigo, Joni made some comment about looking outward at the state of the world which was not a popular thing to do. The film had 'Sex Kills' playing at that point but I think Joni was probably referring to DED and whatever further information there was about that period of her music was edited out and the voice over was used in the part about Turbulent Indigo. Except for 'Good Friends', 'Impossible Dreamer', 'Ethiopia' and 'Lucky Girl', this record isn't meant to sound pretty. The sound reflects tension and anxiety. There is an underlying sense in the music that our society and culture are being driven by some vast machinery controlled by powerful but covert forces. Listen to the lines 'oh and deep in the night/appetites find us/release us and blind us' from 'The Three Great Stimulants'. I get an image of chained slaves being driven in some deep, dark place to do repititive, mind and body-numbing work that keeps the machinery going. 'Dog Eat Dog' isn't 'Song to A Seagull'. It isn't 'Blue' or 'Court and Spark' or 'Hejira'. This isn't a record about Joni's love life or her ongoing quest for self-knowledge. DED is a record about greed, exploitation, apathy, the perversion of spiritual values, wanton disregard of damage to our planet, corruption, decadence, herd mentatlity, poverty of both body & spirit. Why should it sound pretty? And I agree with Don. I have never thought that this record sounds like anything else that came out of the 80s. As with every other album, Joni's sound is distinctive, original and very much her own. Before I get off the soap box I would like to make one more point. DED was an essential step in Joni's artistic development. If you listen to 'Chalk Mark in a Rain Storm', the sythesizers are still in the forefront but the record is more melodic and focused on the personal than DED. When she made 'Night Ride Home' she had come to a point where she was using the synths as shading or to accent certain points of the songs. Listen to how she uses them in 'Passion Play' or the way they once again create a tense, frightening sound in 'Slouching Toward Bethlehem'. Brilliant and wonderful. And if she hadn't started learning how to use this instrument back in the 80s, she might never have gotten to the point where she could use it so beautifully on NRH and Turbulent Indigo. Joni is more than capable or creating valid, interesting work without have to use a guitar or a piano. Her talent is much broader than that. Mark E in Seattle - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/26/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 10:44:00 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Yet Another Very Personal Perspective ... NJC PC whatever The hope that springs eternal in me does not go untested. Sometimes, I fear, if I were to leave my ultra-sensitive instincts to give way to that most pragmatic and logical portion of MY mind, it may go lost forever. So either side of that coin in my mind, fears and challenges the hope, yet it marches on. It has been challenged before. And I wonder why it sustains and how so. Is my hope sometimes not like fools gold? I ask myself - what fool am I to let this go on abiding in the walls that are me. And there is no answer but for one ... humanity. Everyday I mix with all sorts of it and from absolute madness and anger to the shrill of excitement and laughter to the tears of joy to the sound of music to cries of pain, I realize this is the oxygen of my hope. I am a junkie for humanity - humans the varieties the smells and tastes. Even when I dislike, I am drawn to the parts that make it work. I must examine, under the microscope of my mind what this is. Living is curiousity, and when there is none - you are done. So while I challenge the sense and sensibility of those in power and leading us to the abyss, I know in their own minds there is some sort of inner personal logic taking place. But there are some tools sorely missed, - real hope, real humanity, real foresight, and this is what has killed the one main ingredient of hope we need to wade through this mess. TRUST. My fear and latest assailant on my hope, is that there is no trust and almost no chance it can be repaired - TRUELY repaired. Even if we all stretched our arms, and wrapped ourselves around eachother, right now, what chance that other plans would not be slyly being made. What trust is, can not be minimized. It is the basis for your work, your love, your family, your friendships, your ego. To trust your instincts. So for all the strategies discussed I believe even thinking of one is preposterous, at this point. It is putting the cart before the horse. Until we, who claim to be such servants of a GOD, do reach out and hug and love and listen and talk and find the common denominators amongst us, with a genuine and true curiousity and exchange, we can never have a trust enough to design a strategy that all can participate in. And that would be the strategy, one that can lead us forward in peace ... not into some band-aid of a war. So ahh yes there will be those who say - and there she goes head in the clouds again. I say better than up my ass, because for all the so called trust and so called pragmatic decision making, I see us on the edge of the world about to jump without a net .... and just how sensible is that? Peace, Susan NP: Phoebe Snow/Harpo's Blues Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:48:07 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: talk to me and the tuning thing well, i for one received your post so welcome and i so totally agree on talk to me. it is one of my favorite songs on earth. the guitar is superb. the first time i heard it in the 70's i thought that no one could squeeze so much music out of a simple guitar. i was very much a piano person before joni but we didn't have a piano at home so i had to *content* myself with my older brother's guitar. to me guitar accompaniments meant pretty much just strumming your way through three chords and getting away with it. when i heard joni's "guitar management techniques" i discovered that you had an orchestra at your beck and call if you learned how to use the alternate tunings. i devoted years -- literally -- to studying her tunings until i *discovered* (i'm in quotation mark mode today) the G tuning. i wrote more than a 100 songs in that tuning alone!!! by the time i heard talk to me, i had stuck to the G tuning for so long (way back from the days of the circle game so you do the figures) that i had missed the point of the alternate tunings: i again needed rubber fingers or REAL musical knowledge to get something new or fresh sounding out of the same tired tuning. and then comes joni with all her guitar slapping and sliding and basically very few chords to build her crazy funny funny funny monologue upon. the lyrics were ME!!!! if you know me you know i talk too open and free and i always pay a high price. and i always feel miserable in the presence of a mister mystery. joni rules all right. wally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:51:09 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: njc Talk to her - music emiliano, how incredibly stupid of me! i'm embarrassed. to think i'm from south america too... blame it on my trip to boston and the negative influence of bob murphy. wally, contrite - -----Mensaje original----- De: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]En nombre de Emiliano Patino Enviado el: Sabado, 15 de Marzo de 2003 12:46 p.m. Para: JMDL Asunto: Re: njc Talk to her - music Wally wrote: >there's a lot of borrowing from barber's adagio for strings, but YES the >soundtrack is amazing, especially caetano's version of the andalusian song. Dear Wally: "Cucurrucucu paloma" is not an andalusian song! It's from Mejico Emiliano ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:56:48 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: njc DED ... Is it really our Don/Larry posting again? Can we be so blessed? I love seeing your name in my inbox, Don! Vince Don Rowe wrote: >Good to see everyone still kicking the DED around >here. Those who remember me already know that I >consider the much-maligned pooch one of Joni's finest >efforts. There, I've said it again, and darnit all >I'm still proud of it! > >Here's why I say this ... Joni's work with the then >darling of the recording industry, the Fairlight CMI >(computer musical instrument) is every bit as fresh, >innovative and daring as any of her alternate guitar >tunings, and the counterpoint lines she uses (or >directed Dolby to use, same diff)as engaging as >anything on HOSL or DJRD. > >Do yourselves a favor (all you DED nay-sayers) ... >make a tape/CDR that alternates cuts from DJRD, DED >and HOSL ... any selection or sequence will do ... and >drive around with it for a week. It will change your >life, and get you well on the road to right-thinking >about Joni's work from the over-abused 80s. :-D > > >Don Rowe (sitting in for Larry Klein) > >===== >Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe >Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online >http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:15:46 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #90 I love Talk To Me. It is engergetic and funny.I even had apart of it on my answering amchine! welcome Terry. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:19:07 +0000 From: colin Subject: Chinese Cafe probably this has been discussed before but I only juts thought about it; I have always thought the song mixed with Unchained Melody(a beautiful song) was odd. Today I was listening to it on Travelogue. It suddenly occurred to me that she is singing the words of Unchained Melody to her daughter. I hunger for your touch-i pray god brings your love to me(or something like that). It makes sense to me anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:35:46 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: Please share with ... NJC me my joy and excitement! I just received my acceptance letter to attend Yale. I will be starting the masters program in archaeology and, hopefully, specializing in archaeometallurgy. This is going to open a whole new life for me! When I told my daughter she said she was going to get me an Indiana Jones hat and whip. Gee ... what do I need with another whip? ;~) I'm just so excited! I had to share :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:59:43 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: "Talk to me" Catherine McKay wrote: > > I've been reading the posts about "Talk to me" and, as > usual, I can see both sides (now and then.) Debra Shea > doesn't like it because she thinks Joni is kowtowing > and that the person Joni is talking to doesn't deserve > her. I hope I read that right. And I agree. Yes, that's exactly what I meant. > And yet... this sounds like a woman newly in love who > wants to know everything about this man - and he's > just not giving. I've learned, intellectually anyway, that when someone's not giving in the giddy beginning that person will not ever be giving. Or, he may be giving in HIS way, maybe he bought her a drink or whatever, but he's obviously not giving in the way Joni needs and is asking for. So she really is wasting her time. Strikes an emotional chord with me. And unlike other Joni songs, the message is not countered with anything else, which would make it more interesting and tolerable for me. It's just her begging. I hate that (yeah, I know, I'm repeating myself, but really I hate that) and, most likely, whoever she's making the request (demand?) of will hate it too. Move on Joni. There are more generous men out there. Joni's been wise in her choice of men, or at least the ones we know about, and I get the impression she moves on easily so this "talk to me" is unusual for her. > After it's all over, that's when you sit back and say, > "Jeez, I wish I hadn't said that - I wish I hadn't > done that - the bastard wasn't worth it". But then, > don't you just go and do it again? How human. A big YES to that, which, of course, is why the song annoys me so much. I've done that more times than I can count. I'm now consciously trying to be more comfortable with the generous men I'm meeting. Weird, huh? to have to make a conscious effort at what would be naturally enjoyable behavior for other people. I've tended to be interested in the men who aren't giving, for whatever reason. Some detrimental lessons are so ingrained it takes forever to even know they're there, and then to try to "relearn"... not easy. I never liked the song, but it wasn't until about ten years ago I realized I hated it and never wanted to hear it again, and started wondering why my reaction to it was so strong... not that I could instantly change my ways, but at least it was a start... Anyone else have a life-lesson experience from a Joni song? Debra Shea NPIMH: ... but, you know, life is for learning.... thanks, Joni. You're an excellent big sister. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:12:57 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: "talk to me" ROSCOE1TC@aol.com wrote: > > i still don't know how to respond to the discussion list....so, i have no > idea who will receive this. :-) All of us! So, whatever you did, do it again. > lyrically, it > doesn't rank with her finest work, but musically, it thrills my soul.... > as a guitar player, i find her guitar work on that song to be > utterly amazing. her sense of rhythm is incredible. it's almost dangerous > for me to drive when that song is blasting in the car. so, perhaps people > could overlook the attempt at humor or the self-deprecating lyrics and just > get into the rhythmic experimentation that is so apparent on the song. > just a suggestion. :-) That's an excellent one. With any song, I always pay attention to the lyrics first, and then the music. There have been interesting discussions here about that, with lots of people, musicians especially, getting hooked by the music first. It's interesting the different ways people take in information. > NO ONE plays guitar like joni. NO ONE. it's just > one of the reasons that joni RULES. I can't even recall what the guitar sounds like on that song! So, maybe, it's time to give it a try again and just pay attention to the sound. Maybe I'll even find out the song doesn't annoy me nearly as much as it did 10 years ago... Welcome Terry! Thanks for the suggestion. Getting other viewpoints is one of the unending pleasures of this list. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:17:50 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Please share with ... NJC Wow! Fantastic, Heather! Congratulations! That's an excellent school. Your chemistry background is going into all sorts of interesting areas. Who knew a chemist would ever need a whip? ... trying to hear a Joni song to cover this situation... and coming up with "the only joy in town"... don't know if that's quite appropriate... Debra Shea Heather wrote: > > me my joy and excitement! I just received my acceptance letter to attend > Yale. I will be starting the masters program in archaeology and, hopefully, > specializing in archaeometallurgy. This is going to open a whole new life > for me! When I told my daughter she said she was going to get me an Indiana > Jones hat and whip. Gee ... what do I need with another whip? ;~) > > I'm just so excited! I had to share :-) > > Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 12:34:37 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Please share with ... NJC You go, girl!!! Congratulations, this is fantastic!!!! Heather wrote: > me my joy and excitement! I just received my acceptance letter to attend > Yale. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:44:36 -0500 From: Ricw1217@aol.com Subject: Re: Please share with ... NJC CONGRATULATIONS HEATHER! i'm so proud of you and happy for you! what wonderful news! i bet it was the "make the jonifest name tags" on your resume that got you in!!! bless you, you little innyleckshuall! love, ric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:48:35 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Please share with ... NJC In a message dated 3/15/03 2:37:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, chiaroscuro@snet.net writes: > I will be starting the masters program in archaeology and, hopefully, > specializing in archaeometallurgy. Congratulations my distant cousin Heather. This is a great accomplishment, but I don't know what archaeometallurgy means. I hope you aren't allergic to rocks :~) xo Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:02:32 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: "Talk to me" --- dsk wrote: I'm now > consciously trying > to be more comfortable with the generous men I'm > meeting. Weird, huh? to > have to make a conscious effort at what would be > naturally enjoyable > behavior for other people. I've tended to be > interested in the men who > aren't giving, for whatever reason. Some detrimental > lessons are so > ingrained it takes forever to even know they're > there, and then to try > to "relearn"... not easy. I'm like that too. I hate it. I always pick bastards. What's my friggin' problem? (maybe it's not them - maybe it's me!) I'd become a nun but I'm not that religious and it would drive me nuts living with all those other people. > > Anyone else have a life-lesson experience from a > Joni song? This sounds like the beginning of a great thread - but where do I start? I learn something from just about all of them and then I go back & listen to them much later and learn something else again. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:03:40 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: talk to me and the tuning thing --- Wally Kairuz wrote: > i had to > *content* myself with my > older brother's guitar. to me guitar accompaniments > meant pretty much just > strumming your way through three chords and getting > away with it. when i > heard joni's "guitar management techniques" i > discovered that you had an > orchestra at your beck and call if you learned how > to use the alternate > tunings. The guitar: orchestra in a box. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:19:09 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: DED ... Hi Mark, and good to hear from you! I completely agree about DED being a significant step in Joni's artistic development. And that frightening sound in "Slouching ..." is, if memory serves, a call made by one of Joni's cats. I recall an interview where she tells a story about stalking one of her cats with a mic and a DAT machine for several days to sample that particular meow. Talk about creative uses for a synth ... ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:29:27 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: DED ... Oh heavens! Am I really that predictable? Oh well, it's all in a good cause. I guess I've just always been curious about the point of view that holds, at the same time, that Joni's use of different guitar tunings is brilliant, her forays into jazz daring and envelope stretching ... yet the moment she touches an electronic instrument ... it's a pop sell-out. Or maybe there is an evil twin Joni who kidnapped our beloved SIQUOMB and put out "those three" albums! ;-D Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:32:50 -0500 From: "Lama, Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's; what is the REALdifference? Yeah, me too about the Steve Hoffman-mastered "Blue". (Three?) Maybe we'll get DVD-Audio versions of everthing soon. If the Rolling Stones are out on SACD, and "Dark Side Of The Moon" is out on hi-rez multichannel SACD, maybe Reprise will add on to their releases too. (BSN is already available on DVD-Audio.) Me? I'm eventually gonna upgrade the vinyl playback. After all, I already have a library of discs to play in a high rez format. :) If I buy a DVD-Audio player I'll have exactly zero titles to play and having a player sitting there will do nothing for what I already have. How am I gonna get everything out of those primo vinyl pressings like Emmylou's "Quarter Moon In A Ten Cent Town" if I'm sidetracked into a brand new format? Why would I want to pay retail again? Lama RR wrote: You are right! I thought it was still in print, but it isn't. Glad I got one when it was 'only' $25. Gerald Notaro wrote: > Absolutely. But it is now running around $75.00, and will probably get > costlier. Who wrote? > > ps In the case of Blue, if you love this album, the gold version > > is worth the extra bucks. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:38:55 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: njc DED ... - --- vince wrote: > Is it really our Don/Larry posting again? Yes it's really me. I'm on Joni-Only digest these days, since I'm only able to drop in occasionally. Imagine my delight to once again be able to come to Joni's defense on DED! So was TLOG all talked out by the time I came back? I really joined in again to see what the die-hards all thought, but things have been eerily silent on the subject. And yet here we are still going rounds on DED some 18 years after the fact. And they said it wouldn't last ... ;-) Don Rowe ===== Visit me anytime at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:15:54 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Please share with ... NJC I am so pleased for you heather. Congratulations. bw colin ps aren't you a little old for school? Heather wrote: >me my joy and excitement! I just received my acceptance letter to attend >Yale. I will be starting the masters program in archaeology and, hopefully, >specializing in archaeometallurgy. This is going to open a whole new life >for me! When I told my daughter she said she was going to get me an Indiana >Jones hat and whip. Gee ... what do I need with another whip? ;~) > >I'm just so excited! I had to share :-) > >Heather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 22:23:12 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: "Talk to me" >I'm like that too. I hate it. I always pick bastards. >What's my friggin' problem? > The problem does lie with you. Not that you only imagine them to be bastards but that you are attracted to and accept treatment/behaviour that is detrimental to you but that you are used to. Once we have learned to value our own selves, we cease to be attracted to those that don't value us. I certainly know this was true for me.i always made friends with people who ttreated me like those who brought me up. thus I was always unhappy and always being mistreated.Then i wised up. People are different, mrena nd women are different. each deals wiht life differently, feels differently and expresses life differently.Quite often we expect from others that which they cannot give. We expect them to be like us when they are not. Just ebcause a man does not express his feelings in the way we wuld wnat, does not make them 'unfeeling'. It just emans they deal differently. So much of our problems with eachother is not being able to communicate well and expecting others to be as we are. Not relaistic and the path to pain. bw colin ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #177 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)