From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #175 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, March 14 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 175 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's (now NJC) [Chris Marshall ] Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's; what is the REAL difference? [] Re: Miles of Aisles query [Scott Price ] Re: Miles of Aisles query ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Miles of Aisles query [Doug ] Re: Miles of Aisles query [Doug ] Re: Metamorphosis - NJC [Catherine McKay ] Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's; what is the REAL difference? [R] Re: njc - talk to her (contains spoilers!) [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Re: Alliterative Joni, Also , Tax Free (WARNING: Political Content!!! NJC) ["kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:08:43 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's (now NJC) On Thursday, Mar 13, 2003, at 22:22 Europe/London, Randy Remote wrote: > so the remaster was welcome. > Other titles, like For The Roses are something of an improvement, > but I had to compare them repeatedly with headphones to notice > the slightly silkier high end. > If you have a CD player with the HDCD circuitry (I do not) > you will probably notice even better sound quality. Let me get this straight. HDCD CDs, to be heard at their best, need HDCD players but are backward compatible with ordinary ones. On top of that, the HDCD releases benefit from being remastered as well, so even if you don't have an HDCD capable player, you should still notice an improvement? Have I got this right? Do you know precisely what HDCD actually does, as distinct from the remastering process? Cheers, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:23:34 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's (now NJC) At 3/13/2003 05:08 PM, Chris Marshall wrote: >Do you know precisely what HDCD actually does, as >distinct from the remastering process? HDCD is a registered trademark of Microsoft, they acquired the technology from a company called PMI in September of 2000. From their website: "High Definition Compatible Digital. (HDCD.) is a patented encode/decode process for delivering the full richness and detail of the original microphone feed on Compact Discs and DVD-Audio. "HDCD-encoded CDs sound better because they are encoded with 20 bits of real musical information, as compared with 16 bits for all other CDs. HDCD overcomes the limitation of the 16-bit CD format by using a sophisticated system to encode the additional 4 bits onto the CD while remaining completely compatible with the existing CD format. HDCD provides more dynamic range, a more focused 3-D soundstage, and extremely natural vocal and musical timbre. With HDCD, you get the body, depth, and emotion of the original performance not a flat, digital imitation." "Audio chip manufacturers including Motorola, Sanyo, and Zoran have developed HDCD chips for audio products, such as CD and DVD players and receivers. HDCD-encoded media will play on machines that don't have the chip, and HDCD-equipped machines can play traditionally recorded media. Because the decoder chips include a high-precision digital filter, HDCD-equipped players will improve audio quality for even traditionally recorded CDs and DVDs. Conversely, because of the recording process, HDCD-encoded media will also sound better than traditionally CDs and DVDs on players that don't have the HDCD chip. Nevertheless, the best audio quality is yielded by HDCD-encoded media on an HDCD-equipped player. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 02:37:06 +0200 From: jop Subject: Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's; what is the REAL difference? steve@hatstand.org wrote: > I replaced C&S with a HDCD version when I was in NY and > noticed it was alot > clearer and of course the booklet is so much better. I also > had to replace > THOSL to HDCD because it is my fave but was disappointed > that the back cover > is just the same as the back of the booklet and the picture > of the houses > was no where to be seen! Also the point where 'The Boho > Dance' and 'Harry's > House...' joins is different (better or worst I don't know). > I think there > is a bit of crackle on the HDCD version at the beginning of > 'Harry's > House...' which isn't on the original version. I don't think > it is on the > Misses HDCD version though!? Strange. > I remember noticing when I got the 'normal' CD, that while the change from Boho to Harry is musically the same, on vinyl it changed at a different place - is that what you're talking about? The change from Centerpiece back to Harry sounds kind of "unnatural" to me, like it's a bad editing job... I suppose it's like that on all versions of the album? Can't hear any cracking at the beginning of Harry... I have the US pressing. Advice to the original HDCD "inquierer": if you're in Europe, you have to check if you get the 'repackaged' artwork. I have yet to see European HDCD's with the restored art. So far I've seen quite a few Euro HDCD's with large golden stickers on front, but the art is always the boring old one. Anyone who has an extra copy of the Shadows And Light double HDCD -- I'm a potential buyer! It's the last HDCD I have to find... - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:38:59 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: njc - talk to her (contains spoilers!) In a message dated 13/03/2003 13:08:22 GMT Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << I think perhaps you're being a tad extreme, Azeem...it's strongly established in the film that he's deeply in love with her - indeed; he has basically dedicated his life to being her caretaker, and the scenes of him caressing her, grooming her, putting lotion on her, etc. reinforced that, at least for me. Obviously if he was just in it for necrophiliac sex he wouldn't have invested so much of himself. >> To borrow a fine phrase once used here by David Lahm in another context, I am in collegial and total disagreement with you here, Bob. Surely this WAS a rape: I don't believe physical violence is an inevitable part of rape (coercion is often used, although I accept that that is a form of violence). What we had here was a man having non-consensual sex with a woman who was in his care and *totally* in his power - she was helpless and vulnerable, and I believe that his act was made more, not less reprehensible because of this imbalance of power. And it was unprotected, meaning he could have infected her with an STD; and she then fell pregnant, which for all I know could have killed her and the foetus. It is a gross abuse, and, for me, its seriousness is not tempered by his tender feelings towards her. If I remember rightly, he hardly knows her, although he quickly becomes obsessed with her, and she gives no indication of reciprocating his feelings. They have not been a couple. If they HAD been, then I would accept that this might put his actions in a different light. There is not much about this (or any other) Almodovar film that is truly realistic; however, the fact that this man is locked up in a mental institution *is* spot-on, as his behaviour is psychotic. That's my "take" on it... All the best, Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:59:13 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's (now NJC) Chris Marshall wrote: > On Thursday, Mar 13, 2003, at 22:22 Europe/London, Randy Remote wrote: > > so the remaster was welcome. > > Other titles, like For The Roses are something of an improvement, > > but I had to compare them repeatedly with headphones to notice > > the slightly silkier high end. > > If you have a CD player with the HDCD circuitry (I do not) > > you will probably notice even better sound quality. > > Let me get this straight. HDCD CDs, to be heard at their > best, need HDCD players yes > but are backward compatible with > ordinary ones. yes they can be played on ordinary CD players, supposedly with some improvement > On top of that, the HDCD releases benefit from being > remastered as well, so even if you don't have an HDCD > capable player, you should still notice an improvement? Not sure I understand the question, but in the case of Joni CD's, the HDCDs WERE the remasters. (the non HDCDs were the original issue. Typically record companies can be pretty slipshod about their masters, sometimes using copies of the master tapes or masters that were optimized for LP) > Do you know precisely what HDCD actually does, as > distinct from the remastering process? Other than it standing for "High Definition Compact Disc" I don't know exactly how the improved definition is achieved. RR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 17:05:57 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: mystery list (vljc) Hi everyone. Yesterday I was shopping in J.Jill when I noticed that I really liked the music that was playing. One song in particular caught my fancy, but I didn't ask what was playing until 2 songs later, when it was Allison Krauss. I begged the sales person to tell me what was on the CD. She pulled out a list several pages long. I was perplexed (but I think I figured that out.) Anyway, I look over her shoulder at the list to see that the song 2 previous was Joni's Shiny Toys. She started to say, oh that must be it. I assured her that if anyone could identify JM's Shiny Toys it was me. We both concluded that the songs are played in random order. So my question. I seem to recall that someone on the JMDL was involved in retail music programming. I've asked J.Jill customer service, but so far they suggest that it's the 10 song CD they have for sale. But it's definitely not. I swear there were about 200 songs on this list. I WANT THE LIST!!! Oh, and I'm very happy to see some Joni other that one of the most played songs in rotation like this. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 01:08:38 +0000 From: "J Harney" Subject: Miles of Aisles query I still have the vinyl edition of "Miles of Aisles," culled (not stolen) from the collection of my high school radio station in Stowe, VT., way back in the early 80s. I haven't listened closely to a CD version of same, but my question is about what Joni says at the end of the band introduction. After having introduced all the players from the L.A. Express, she pauses before including herself in the group. At this point, the band starts playing and very quickly she adds "...and me, the chur[?]." It sounds like she's saying "chur" to me, but I must be off the mark since that seems to make no sense. Can someone with good ears identify what it is she says at this point in the recording? Many thanks. Jack - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:13:49 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's; what is the REAL difference? I have the non HDCD version of STAS. I can tell you it is extremely noisey and you can even hear 60 Hz hum . I went to my favorite CD store last week to get the HDCD version, found one with a sticker that said "Digitally Remastered - HDCD" . Thanks to a tip from Randy Remote I was suspicious, asked the clerk to open it up and sure enough it did not say "HDCD" on the disk. A clear case of false advertising. Beware. Doug Stephen Toogood wrote: >All in all though I think HDCD is the best option. I can't imagine what the >non HDCD version of STAS sounds like!? > >STEVE T ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:07:01 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles query At 01:08 AM 3/14/2003 +0000, J Harney wrote: >she adds "...and me, the chur[?]." It sounds like she's saying "chur" I always thought she was calling herself in a humble and whimsical manner the "chirp." Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:30:29 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles query I always thought she said, "And Me, the Chirp" as that she is like a bird singing and/or talking alot. Most of us who have seen her live or have heard bootlegs we all know that her in between banter has always been the fun part of the show. So, chirping could be referring to both singing and talking. Blair NP:Stoned Soul Picnic: Nyro, Laura >> >I still have the vinyl edition of "Miles of Aisles," culled (not stolen) >from the collection of my high school radio station in Stowe, VT., way >back in the early 80s. I haven't listened closely to a CD version of >same, but my question is about what Joni says at the end of the band >introduction. After having introduced all the players from the L.A. >Express, she pauses before including herself in the group. At this >point, the band starts playing and very quickly she adds "...and me, the >chur[?]." It sounds like she's saying "chur" to me, but I must be off >the mark since that seems to make no sense. Can someone with good ears >identify what it is she says at this point in the recording? Many >thanks. > >Jack > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:38:07 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles query Sounds to me: " And meet: the troop" But that's just me. Doug Blair Fraipont wrote: > I always thought she said, "And Me, the Chirp" as that she is > like a bird singing and/or talking alot. Most of us who have seen her > live or have heard bootlegs we all know that her in between banter has > always been the fun part of the show. So, chirping could be referring > to both singing and talking. > Blair > NP:Stoned Soul Picnic: Nyro, Laura > > > > > > >>> >> I still have the vinyl edition of "Miles of Aisles," culled (not stolen) >> from the collection of my high school radio station in Stowe, VT., way >> back in the early 80s. I haven't listened closely to a CD version of >> same, but my question is about what Joni says at the end of the band >> introduction. After having introduced all the players from the L.A. >> Express, she pauses before including herself in the group. At this >> point, the band starts playing and very quickly she adds "...and me, the >> chur[?]." It sounds like she's saying "chur" to me, but I must be off >> the mark since that seems to make no sense. Can someone with good ears >> identify what it is she says at this point in the recording? Many >> thanks. >> >> Jack >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 22:41:00 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles query Correction: "And meet: the troupe" Doug ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:20:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Metamorphosis - NJC --- robin mortlock wrote: > Has anyone heard of Metamorphosis - a 'healing > technique' developed by > Robert St John. > > The practice involves pressure points on the inside > of the foot which in > turn relate to gestation period - from conception to > birth. He describes > life in terms of Afference (consciousness) and > Efference (action) - these > two principles were once one and the splitting of > them caused Space and > Time.....and life as we know it. OK, let me get this straight - the universe began, not with a big boom, but ... with someone's feet? But seriously though, is it anything like reflexology? or even shiatsu? ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:26:24 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: "HDCD"'s versus original issue CD's; what is the REAL difference? Doug- where did this take place? There have been other instances in Europe +/or UK where the old version was repackaged-though I have not heard of it happening in the US. The real HDCD will have the rectangular HDCD logo on the disc itself, regardless of the packaging. Doug wrote: > I have the non HDCD version of STAS. I can tell you it is extremely > noisey and you can even hear 60 Hz hum . > I went to my favorite CD store last week to get the HDCD version, found > one with a sticker that said > "Digitally Remastered - HDCD" . Thanks to a tip from Randy Remote I was > suspicious, asked the clerk to > open it up and sure enough it did not say "HDCD" on the disk. A clear > case of false advertising. Beware. > > Doug > > Stephen Toogood wrote: > > >All in all though I think HDCD is the best option. I can't imagine what the > >non HDCD version of STAS sounds like!? > > > >STEVE T ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:26:55 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: njc - talk to her (contains spoilers!) AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: RE: njc - talk to her (contains spoilers!) >>I was left feeling really uneasy ... Azeem, I never felt that Almodovar was presenting the rape in any kind of favorable light. I got the creeps from the caretaker well before that scene, and I think this was intentional. Lots of shades of gray, nothing clearly one way or the other ... there were both sympathetic and disturbing traits in his character, as well as in the others. As in life. Anyway, I loved the film, my favorite of Almodovar's so far. By the way, regarding Talk To Her and the Oscars, the real crime to me is that Alberto Iglesias' wonderful soundtrack was overlooked. It's one of the best I've ever heard, both in terms of the actual music (17th century Henry Purcell, honey-voiced Brazilian singer/songwriter Caetano Veloso, bittersweet flamenco, Ravel-like string quartet, dark yet subtle synthesizer, and more) and one of the best *sounding* soundtracks I've ever heard ... the performances (London Symphony members on a very good day) and the sonics of the recording. I went right out to get the soundtrack CD and listen to it frequently. That this soundtrack was not nominated is a travesty. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:46:30 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: Re: Alliterative Joni, Also , Tax Free (WARNING: Political Content!!! NJC) Mary wrote: > My own personal experience of Catholicism is that many practitioners, > including myself, take an *enormous* amount of leeway in following, or not > following, certain church teachings. Moreover, one strand of Church > doctrine, while not always emphasized, holds that *individual conscience* > is primary in making these decisions. Debra mentioned this some time ago. I agree - that is my experience, too. > When the day is done, I simply don't see picking > and choosing, not to mention using one's conscience to vote against church > teaching on a regular basis, as "fundamentalist," and I likely never will. I don't either. > Do some "fundamentalist" Protestants vote Democratic? It probably happens > ocassionally, as I allowed for last week. I simply don't think it happens > very often, and the election figures Jerry posted back that up. Not to be annoying but I do think it depends on how one defines "fundamentalist beliefs." "Right wing" fundamentalists or all fundmentalists? But I understand where you are coming from with your definition. >The voting pattern you speak of is the exception, not the rule. I can state > confidently that I have NEVER heard a liberal Democratic candidate endorsed > on a Christian radio station or similar TV show, or read this kind of > endorsement in a letter to the editor by a self-identifying "fundamentalist" > Christian, although I've seen and heard a fair amount of anti-Democratic > jibes on these shows, and in these letters. Maybe this is where I get uneasy about the way terms are thrown around (and not pointing out you in particular but the general vernacular). Calling it "Christian radio station" for one can, IMO, harm many of other Christian faiths who do not operate or conduct themselves as do the particular sects speaking for themselves on a radio station. I guess I wish there were a better way to define it. Clinton and Gore are both Southern Baptists, which has always been a fundamentalist religion. Many of the evangelical and other sects splintered off from the Southern Baptists. Many who voted for them are from those religious roots. They may not have radio stations that they use to set forth their political views in a partisan way, but they do vote for Democratic candidates. Perhaps they also are setting aside personal religious teachings and voting for what they feel is a greater good. > Re: the power of politically conservative Protestant evangelicals in this > country, and in the Republican party: you may wish to distance yourself > from it, and you may wish that this faction hadn't virtually hijacked the > party 25 years ago. So do I. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I > think, in contrast, that the evidence is rather strong that it did. I think it did but more from a perceptual standpoint. At any rate, it is unfortunate, both the perception and the reality. > I would suggest, if you don't like this state of affairs, that you work within your local Republican party and perhaps >beyond to organize the systematic presentation of a different conservative belief > system. Therein lies the dilemma - they are not powerful on the local level in LA or most of California. I never hear a peep about them here vis a vis politics. That probably shades my opinion in the larger sense on the topic. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:18:03 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: The origins of 'Tax Free' Owen, I'm behind in posts but wanted to comment further. The premise you raised had me mulling this all over the past few days. I did originally interpret Tax Free to be criticizing the crass opportunism of the TV evangelists. I previously thought the Rod Steiger bit at the end seemed out of place in the theme, except that it was an well-done artistic device, almost farcical, used to portray a type of narrow-minded, fire and brimstone, tent revival style preacher. I see now from Joni's remarks that her point was more about separation of church and state. I read a few articles about Robertson the other night (tried my best to not pay any attention to him in the 80s) and apparently he may well have been crossing the line in a big way by getting involved in political situations in Central and South America at the time through his missionary operations. When others have to pay for airtime to put forth their political beliefs, it is unfair that another group can put forth their opinions for free - tax free. So Joni is right either way on this principle. On the other hand, by making the point by somehow implying that those who railed against the actions of Castro, Khomeni and Kaddafi are somehow wrong or bad is a whole other, perplexing to me, question. I just can't see that those preachers or politicians would be motivated to think they would have to convince their congregations that those guys are not so cool. They would probably already be preaching to the choir. I think a lot of people have short memories (myself included since I had to refresh mine on this) but Khomeni and Kaddafi were some of the principal brokers of terrorist attacks against Americans in the '80s. From 1979 to 1989 they or their collaborators were behind around 20 terrorist acts (bombings of embassies, military barracks, ships, hijackings) against Americans and others abroad. They were the Bin Ladens of their day. This brings me back to what Bobsart posted in his critique of the song a few days ago. The song is great in many ways and the sentiment in general was right, but the way she expressed it in part did apparently show her biases and it does not give a more universal assessment of the topics she raises. It ultimately falls short in that regard. Kakki ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #175 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)