From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #162 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Wednesday, March 5 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 162 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project [dsk ] Re: cats (njc) [FredNow@aol.com] Joni's cover art ["hell" ] RE: w-word/Fiddle and Drum [FredNow@aol.com] Re: JMDL Library Notification: March 5 [Catherine McKay ] Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project [SCJoniGuy@aol.co] Re: Joni's cover art [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni Bio ["James Leahy" ] Re: JMDL Library Notification: March 5 [Catherine McKay ] Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni Bio [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni's cover art [Catherine McKay ] female god? njc [anne@sandstrom.com] Life and Times - one and two [Little Bird ] Re: Joni's cover art [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: female god? njc [Catherine McKay ] doyouseewhatisee [twoshoes@sasktel.net] Re: female god? njc [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Joni's cover art [Little Bird ] Re: Joni's cover art [Little Bird ] Re: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project [SCJoniGuy@aol.co] Re: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Joni's cover art/DED Cover ["Blair Fraipont" ] Joni mention in "Laurel Canyon" movie review [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni mention in "Laurel Canyon" movie review [Little Bird ] Re: NJC Debs Poll ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Religion (NJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: The Fiddle and the Drum ["Lori Fye" ] Some trivia - Joni "blesses" Crows' BYT [BRYAN8847@aol.com] Re: female god? njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: female god? njc ["Lori Fye" ] Re: cats (njc) ["ron" ] Re: female god? njc ["Lori Fye" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 04:15:58 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project Kate Bennett wrote: > > an interview with larry klein (who mentions joni several times of course... > joni and i have been talking about some things" > > !!!!! woohoo!!!! Me too on the woohoo. I see this as another clue that Joni's going to start writing music again. When I read that she's listening to talk radio, with different stations on in different rooms, and recalling how she's said she always takes the most interesting bit of what she encounters, and twists and expands it into her unique creations (a la Boho Dance), and that the interviewer described her as angry at what she was hearing... I don't think painting, which she does for joy, will be able to convey those feelings. My first thought was that a new Joni album is on the way. I see T'log as her subtle anti-war statement, especially considering the paintings she included. And the songs... when listening to Dawntreader, I wondered why she picked THAT song. It's one of my favorites on T'log, but really, of all her early songs, why that one? Then I heard the line "a dream that the wars are done" and it struck me that many of the songs on T'log mention war, or conflict (and not only the romantic relationship kind), a desire for peace in the world, and the healing nature of love. Lines from Otis and Marlena, and "we're like America and Russia" and Woodstock and Slouching and Borderline all make me wonder if there wasn't an anti-war message in her choice of some songs. I'm imagining that whatever Joni does next will be a stronger statement about what's going on in the world, and probably won't be anything as simplistic as "war is bad", which of course is why I want to hear her take on it all. If she and Larry visit London again or Vince Mendoza is near by while they're "talking about some things", well, then, never mind... Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 04:18:56 -0500 From: Cactustree78@aol.com Subject: WALL TO WALL ETC... Hello All! I cannot wait until the Joni Wall to Wall extravaganza!! Im hoping that there is going to be a strong contingency of jmdlers there..That would be awesome!! Maybe we can try and meet up I know Bob mentioned something about that..What could be more fun.. Jmdlers on the loose in NYC!!And if my dreams come true Joni will be there(and then I woke up) Im also counting the nano-seconds until the american masters pbs special..I dont know if I can take all this Joni-ness who am I kiddin I need more..Im like a Joni junkie (and damn proud of it) I hope you all are havin a great day !! If not then try to :) love and light ***kev*** p.s. I read the Fiddle and the drum at a poetry reading sunday to very very good reviews. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:06:15 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Joni's language Bruce wrote: > Yes, I think about this alot. It's one of great joys of Joni. The unexpected > word or phrase or rhyme. She just seems to go that extra distance in the descriptiveness of her lyrics. Like instead of saying "Send me a picture then, and I'll paint the colours of your autumn 'til we meet again", it's "the pyrotechnic explosions of your autumn. It creates a much more vivid picture in the mind. One of my favourite of Joni's lyrics. Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 05:13:07 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: cats (njc) Catherine McKay wrote: >Every now and then, one of my goofy >cats climbs onto the (piano) electronic keyboard and >manages to turn it on and play spooky cat music on it. Baroque composer Domenico Scarlatti composed a fugue whose subject (the main musical theme of a fugue) was supposedly the notes sounded by his cat walking across his clavier keyboard. It's a very cool fugue, and its subject is unusual for the period. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 23:27:04 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Joni's cover art All these Joni threads have got me thinking about her albums, and the art-work (or photography) used on each one (and I'm talking about the main cover, not any additional art-work or photographs). I really have three questions for you to ponder (if you feel so inclined, that is!): Which is her "best" album cover, and why? This may be better worded as "Which is your favourite", as this will always be subjective.... Which cover best describes the musical and/or lyrical content of that album? And which cover best describes Joni as a person? Personally, it's a hard choice for her "best" album cover, and there are some VERY close seconds, but I'm going to go with The Hissing Of Summer Lawns (despite what Rolling Stone thinks)! Because it's an original Joni, and it's a little more "cryptic" than just a painting or photograph of her. It makes me think a little more as well, and I've spent time really studying it (the LP, at least), which I don't think I've done with the other covers so much. I think the cover of Hejira best describes its content - the cover is stark with the black and white photography, like the music, and yet it's also elegant and sophisticated, like the lyrics. This was a micro-millimetre behind HOSL for my No. 1 position! Now that I think about it, the third question is really hard to answer! Is it Turbulent Indigo - the tortured artist? Blue - melancholy and introspective (definitely not!)? I think Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is the closest. She seems cool and very confident: "I'm whatever I want to be - male, female, black, white. Here I am, take me as I am". I think - I'll probably change my mind tomorrow! Thoughts, anyone? Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 05:28:26 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: RE: w-word/Fiddle and Drum "Jerry Notaro" wrote: >I have often posted about The Fiddle and the Drum, especially when it got >listed as a least favorite by list members. I always loved this song in >the Vietnam era. It was brave both lyrically and musically. Who else would >have recorded an accapella song like it, but our Joan. The "My dear Johnny, >my dear Friend," is especially poignant in today's world when those who are >protesting are accused of being unpatriotic. It is a trick that Tricky >Dick was most fond of. I am not one of the list members who voted it least favorite ... it's one of my most favorite, and it's a brilliant song, apt then and even more apt now. Someone here suggested that it should become an anthem, and I agree in spirit except that it's a terribly difficult melody and it would get botched. It's one of the prime examples of Joni's use of back and forth minor/major tonality shifts, which say everything the lyrics say, and more. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:36:34 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Library Notification: March 5 --- ljirvin@jmdl.com wrote: Yesterday, the following update or addition was made to the JMDL Library: 3/4/2003: "Singer's life reflected in her music, film shows" - CanWest News Service (Review - Documentary) The above-mentioned article talks about the film that was *supposed* to air on CBC last year. I don't know about you, and maybe I'm asking for too much, but I'd like to see this too - it has more on Joni's childhood and so on, as well as interviews with her parents and teachers: "Joni Mitchell: Both Sides Now and Then, on the other hand, was more personal, chattier, and a lot more Canadian. Mitchell hated it. And since she had demanded editorial control up front, she vetoed it days before it was to broadcast in Canada, and well after review copies had been sent out to critics. ... "[I]t spent a great deal of time detailing the singer's early life at the expense of her later musical career, when Mitchell's constant musical experiments often took her out of the spotlight. ... "The original film featured reminiscences with Mitchell's parents, anecdotes about a favourite teacher, Mitchell's own memories of her bout with polio and her keen sense of alienation from her classmates. All of this, along with the yearbook photos and family snaps, are missing from the new film." ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:22:07 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: JMDL Library Notification: March 5 The article says that review copies were distributed. Would it be possible to dig one up? We on the JMDL are, after all, relentless!! Boy do I feel greedy, but I'd like to see the first film, too. At 06:36 AM 3/5/03 -0500, Catherine wrote: >The above-mentioned article talks about the film that >was *supposed* to air on CBC last year. I don't know >about you, and maybe I'm asking for too much, but I'd >like to see this too - it has more on Joni's childhood >and so on, as well as interviews with her parents and >teachers: - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2/25/03 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:29:14 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project In a message dated 3/5/2003 4:15:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: > wonder if > there wasn't an anti-war message in her choice of some > songs. I think you're pretty much right on with the observation, Debra. Given the paintings she chose and the songs, it's certainly strong subtext. Given that she's listening to the wacky talk shows, designed to stir you up, and the fact that she has 2 young grandkids, I don't see how she can help but come out with something, and like I've said she's in a perfect spot to offer us a unique articulation of the world (both large & small, global & personal) and set herself on top of the heap again. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:41:09 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's cover art Your post was 'ab fab', Hell! Great questions... > Which is her "best" album cover, and why? This may be better worded as "Which > is your favourite", as this will always be subjective.... Really tough choice between Hejira & HOSL, both of which are filled with images, contrasts, and subtext, and can generate great discussion on their own. I would have to give the edge to Hejira for that sexy shadowed Joni with the cheekbones so bony! > Which cover best describes the musical and/or lyrical > content of that album? Again, so tough to choose! Court & Spark maybe, it's cover given to all the subtle colors and textures, pretty yet ponderous. Blue, stark and melancholy...you could almost argue them all in one way or another. Hejira, again, with all of its travel imagery. > > And which cover best describes Joni as a person? Well, Joni as a person has evolved as has her cover art, reflecting the changes in corresponding fashion. Fanciful and fantasy-filled (STAS), Simple beauty, as obvious and as natural as a flower (Clouds), and so on. I don't want to say everything I feel the first time out, I'll leave it to others to offer their thoughts. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:20:46 -0500 From: "James Leahy" Subject: Joni Bio Just a few brief thoughts on the Joni bio last night on CBC: I agree with the other posts so far that this was a richly detailed, lyrical piece with lots of amazing, rare photos and clips. I felt that her bout with polio should have received much more time since her determination to overcome the disease was what really shaped her personality and formed her spirituality. The archive shots of Saskatchewan in winter in the 1940s were truly stunning -- and eerie. That shot of a six-year-old Joni sitting in a chair in a corner, so alone, was haunting to me. ("I'm sitting in some cafe.") I thought the sequence about the lost child was also moving, with the image of a young girl playing superimposed, ghostlike beneath the main image. Again, this sequence could have been a bit longer, with perhaps some shots of an old Toronto hospital and more voice-over details of what it was like to have a baby out of wedlock at that time. And those wedding pictures of Joni and Chuck -- she looked so beautiful, ethereal. Hard to imagine that beneath her smile she was saying to herself "I can get out of this." Perhaps too much time on her affair with Graham Nash? This really needs to be a three-parter! The clip of Joni with Adrienne Clarkson and Paul Soles was a surprise. That was from a show called Take Thirty, I believe, an interview/public affairs show that was shown during the afternoon (if I recall correctly). The concert footage of Joni in the green gown was shot at the Mariposa Folk Festival in 1969, at which I was an audience member. I had seen the CBC film documentary about that year's Mariposa, but was surprised to also see the video footage of the same concert -- the shot of her singing Marcie. It would sure be nice if the CBC showed this as a special concert. Just some thoughts, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:22:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Library Notification: March 5 --- Deb Messling wrote: > The article says that review copies were > distributed. Would it be possible > to dig one up? We on the JMDL are, after all, > relentless!! Boy do I feel > greedy, but I'd like to see the first film, too. > Eggzackly. I bet someone out there has one and just isn't 'fessing up. I'd hate to see it show up on e-bay or something, with some greedy bastid asking megabucks for something they obviously don't appreciate. (Staying home today on account of 20 cm of snow!) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 09:24:25 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Joni's cover art Such a hard but marvelous set of questions! :) #1. best Album cover... That is hard, because so many of her album covers (like her music compliments her lyrics) are representative of the music within. Blue, for instance, the picture is sort of fuzzy, dark blues, her eyes are shut, head pointed downward, all of that complements the album well. Then you have Hejira, The road behind Joni, the endless white lines extending back, the cigarette in her mouth as if she was just getting out of the car for a quick smoke and then back into the car and unto the road, the colors are grey, white, and black, the music is the same, consistent and simple, but at the same time lyrically complex like the Journey of which Joni took. Turbulent Indigo, the Van Gogh-tribute, Joni with her ear off, as if she was saying she too had lost it, like Van Gogh, that she was cast out and own her own. The Idea of the ear being sliced off gives me a viceral feeling like the songs which permeate the album. It is biting and some of the songs ghostly, just like the colors of the painting on the cover... Also, I would add Hissing of Summer Lawns to the Best album list and I totally agree with you. I love the cryptic message within and the colors chosen. Because of these qualities, it may be harder for some people outside of the list and/or Joni afficinados to see the concept. So, i would have to say that her best cover is Hejira. #2. My personal favorite: Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, I love Joni as a man in blackface and the similar typeof artwork from Hejira.. i.e. the naked woman and mikey mouse balloons on Joni's dress.. the birds flying away, (reminds me of Paprika Plaines and SIlky Veils of Ardour) and ofcourse like Hissing of SUmmer Lawns the two strong background colors which set the characters on the cover off as if they were popping off of the cover, i love those HoJO colors! IT says alot about her explorations through music, like the album cover, the music makes swift changes but for me still stays glued together. You know Dog eat Dog is a great cover too, if only the Album title wasn't Dog Eat Dog. Mind you, I only say this in the context of discussing of album artwork. Because the title is Dog Eat Dog, is just seems obvious what the album is saying. if say the album was called, "Incendiary Soul" or "Tax Free" it almost becomes a stronger image, the dogs seemingly ripping at each other and at Joni. #3. The Best Album that Describes Joni as a person..? I'd have to say, "Turbulent INdigo" for the late 80s to the present Hejira would be representative for the period of "For the Roses" to "Minugs" and this is because Hejira is about taking a trip to get away from something uncomfortable or unwanted, right? During these 8 years, she left her past sytle behind and evolved with each album, as if each album was a different state/country/province in which she was travelling. ANd for the early years, "Ladies of the Canyon" The simplicity of the colors and black marker geese best describes her music from Before Songs to a Seagull up to about blue, before she started adding new colors to the palate. Blair F. NP: Desolation Row, Bob Dylan >Which is her "best" album cover, and why? This may be better worded as >"Which >is your favourite", as this will always be subjective.... > >Which cover best describes the musical and/or lyrical content of that >album? > >And which cover best describes Joni as a person? > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:28:54 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/5/2003 4:15:58 AM Eastern > Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: > > > wonder if > > there wasn't an anti-war message in her choice of > some > > songs. > > I think you're pretty much right on with the > observation, Debra. Given the paintings she chose > and the songs, it's certainly strong subtext. > > Given that she's listening to the wacky talk shows, > designed to stir you up, and the fact that she has 2 > young grandkids, I don't see how she can help but > come out with something, and like I've said she's in > a perfect spot to offer us a unique articulation of > the world (both large & small, global & personal) > and set herself on top of the heap again. > Can you imagine Joan as the spokesperson sent to negotiate weapons inspection with Saddam? She'd be telling him to kiss her ass. I think we should leave that to Hans Blix. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:35:17 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni Bio --- James Leahy wrote: > The clip of Joni with Adrienne Clarkson and Paul > Soles was a surprise. That > was from a show called Take Thirty, I believe, an > interview/public affairs > show that was shown during the afternoon (if I > recall correctly). You're right. That's what I remember too. So it *was* Paul Soles. I agree about the Sask in winter shots - nicely done, and with "Urge for going" playing in the background. The whole thing is so tastefully done - I can't wait 'til next week. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:39:55 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni's cover art --- Blair Fraipont wrote: > You know Dog eat Dog is a great cover too, > if only the Album title > wasn't Dog Eat Dog. Mind you, I only say this in the > context of discussing > of album artwork. Because the title is Dog Eat Dog, > is just seems obvious > what the album is saying. if say the album was > called, "Incendiary Soul" or > "Tax Free" it almost becomes a stronger image, the > dogs seemingly ripping at > each other and at Joni. I like those suggestions, esp. "Incendiary soul." Funny thing about the dogs/wolves though. To me, on the DED cover, even though I sometimes see it as dogs attacking, I usually see it as Joni being part of the pack. Those dogs look like they're having fun jumping around and carrying on, maybe howling. And Joni's right in there with them howlin' and yowlin' - leading the chorus, if you will. When you come right down to it, maybe the question should be, "what Joni cover is the worst and which least represents her?" How about that horrible "girls in the valley" ripoff of "Ladies in the canyon"? We can't even blame that one on Joan, which is why it so obviously stands out as something that sucks badly - she didn't do it! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 06:41:51 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: female god? njc Hi Deb. I certainly don't find it offensivem but perhaps I'm not a good guage of such things. You might point out that the Shakers, who were certainly a somewhat puritanical lot (celibacy for all - new members were orphans they took in), firmly believed that God is neither male nor female. I don't know what they did about a pronoun, but the image of God as man/male was completely eschewed. Hope that helps and good luck. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 06:41:53 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Life and Times - one and two I too noticed that part one of the documentary only took us up to 1970, which gives me this unsettling feeling that much of her later work will be hastily skimmed over in part 2 of the documentary, which would be a shame. No point in speculating though - have to wait and see. - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:48:59 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's cover art In a message dated 3/5/2003 5:26:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: > Which is her "best" album cover, and why? This may be better worded as > "Which > is your favourite", as this will always be subjective.... > > Which cover best describes the musical and/or lyrical content of that > album? > > And which cover best describes Joni as a person? > > Good question Hell !!! My favorite album cover would be "Hejira", but there's many others that are my favorites too. As for musical/lyrical content, I'd go with HOSL, i.e "Jungle Line", "Hissing of Summer Lawns", "Boho Dance".... I think the cover of BSN best describes her as a person, at least in the past 6 years, as she's sitting there, older, wiser, pondering life, wearing her heart on her sleeve, smoking a cig and not giving a damn, yet she's still a beautiful mature woman. Jimmy, thanking all the Canadian listers for the CBC bio reports ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: female god? njc --- anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > Hi Deb. > > You might point out > that the Shakers, who were certainly a somewhat > puritanical lot (celibacy for all - new members were > orphans they took in), firmly believed that God is > neither male nor female. I guess we know why the Shakers died out. Of course, they left behind a wonderful furniture legacy. We don't have a word that could mean both male and female, or neither male nor female, apart from "it" which somehow sounds insulting when talking about a person or a personal being of some kind. There's so much emotion tied up in simple pronouns - language isn't as easy as it appears. This explains some people's kneejerk reaction to God's being referred to as "she." As I pointed out to Deb in a private post, they're probably running scared because if it's a library, libraries are funded through tax dollars and taxpayers complain (especially the narrow-minded kneejerk types) which is why so often the juice is sucked out of any website that gets government funding - - God(dess) knows, they don't want to offend anyone, so the sites end up as bland as white bread. My kids call people whose sex they're not sure of "he-she". Maybe we need a new pronoun or two in English! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:52:32 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: doyouseewhatisee I sat there watching the show, with tears in my eyes in response to Joni's incredible bell-like voice in her youth, feeling so *gratified* that her praises were being sung so well and hoping that maybe, just maybe, many up-till-now deprived people would get an inkling of what I have raved about for years. Joni has created music of great depth and beauty, and to miss it is to miss something that touches one's spirit and is rare -- except to those of us who have heard her do it over and over again. There was no one like her back then (in the era the show covered last night), and there still isn't. While the show was on, although I was taping it, no one in my family dared talk to me! I was entranced, thrilled, couldn't get enough, and the hour flew by WAY too fast. I hadn't seen a lot of the footage they ran, and particularly enjoyed Joni's present commentary filmed as she sat at her kitchen table. In spite of her world travels and California/BC life, she still somehow comes across familiar -- like any other 59-year-old Saskatchewan lady I know. How that can be, in view of the life she's had (for surely she doesn't feel at home here anymore and probably hasn't since she was a teen), I can't really say. But the Saskatchewan "light" is on her face... the "what's all the fuss about" attitude we have toward celebrity ... maybe Joni could articulate it for me one day. Joni's not very tall; I'm almost 5'5" and she is just a bit taller, maybe 5'6" or 5'7". Kate du Nord http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 09:55:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: female god? njc Child: Mom, is God a man or a woman? Mom: Why dear, God is both. Child: But Mom, is God black or white? Mom: Sweetheart, God is both. Child: And...is God straight or gay? Mom: Silly child, God is both! Child: So...is Michael Jackson God? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:57:43 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) Everyone used to tell me how wonderful I am,how much they liked what I had to say.Does everyone still feel that way?thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:00:54 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni's cover art I'm not sure if it's her best, but I am so intrigued by the cover art of HOSL. I love looking at the little details of the skyscape, that mix of New York and L.A. with some of Joni's former homes in the foreground. And I could get lost in the intricacies of her large California home on the back cover - "Oh, there's the pool, oh and the gateway..." I think the snake carriers are very mysterious and wonderful, sort of hinting at the jungle kick that moves some of the songs inside. I think, from a strictly artistic standpoint, that Turbulent Indigo is my favourite - I think it's great wry commentary and the painterly brush strokes really strike my fancy. - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:03:32 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni's cover art Speaking of Joni's cover art, there was a shot of one of Joni's self-portraits that I had never seen before, featured briefly in the documentary when they mentioned her artwork - It was a recent one done in oils. - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:10:03 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) > Everyone used to tell me how wonderful I am,how much they > liked what I had > to say.Does everyone still feel that way?thanks. Of course we do, Murphy! Gawd, sometimes you're so damn insecure... Oh, wait a minnit, this wasn't from Murph...my bad. Bob NP: The Lyres, "Teach Me To Forget You" PS: Relayer, you're cool as well. ;~) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:20:46 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) Everyone used to tell me how wonderful I am,how much they liked what I had to say.Does everyone still feel that way?thanks. why, yes of course! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 07:32:21 -0800 (PST) From: Susan Guzzi Subject: Re: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) I only stopped Randy, because i didn't want to seem so patronizing and I was embarrassed with all the gushing I was doing over you! ;-P - But truth be told ... I'm head over heels over you! Peace, Susan - --- Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > Everyone used to tell me how wonderful I am,how much they liked what I had > to say.Does everyone still feel that way?thanks. Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:36:33 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's cover art Hell writes: << I think the cover of Hejira best describes its content >> Gotta disagree here, Hell. I think the cover of "Blue" best describes its content! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 10:57:22 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's cover art/her next project/etc. JMDL poet Muller writes: << that sexy shadowed Joni with the cheekbones so bony >> Great one, Bob! I'll take a pin out of my Muller doll for that! And Debra, great observation about the fact that Joni getting herself stirred up by the radio news and talk shows indicates that she may be getting ready to "sing (her) sorrow." Also . . . Kate! That Klein interview was a great find! Larry's talking about a project with Joni! Yay! And Relayer: I always enjoy your posts! I miss you when you're not actively posting. One more thing . . . The Joni list is back and a pleasure to read again! This makes me very happy. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:04:59 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project > Given that she's listening to the wacky talk shows, designed to stir > you up, and the fact that she has 2 young grandkids, I don't see how > she can help but come out with something, and like I've said she's in > a perfect spot to offer us a unique articulation of the world (both > large & small, global & personal) and set herself on top of the heap > again. But ... unless ... what if it's another "Dog Eat Dog"?? Lori, hoping for one : ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 11:15:12 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project In a message dated 3/5/2003 11:04:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > But ... unless ... what if it's another "Dog Eat Dog"?? I don't see that as a possibility...she's not going to co-write with Klein, nor is she going to turn the project over to a trendy outsider who will turn into the "flavor of the month" that DED was. I'll add that underneath the production and synthetic dreck oflie some VERY good songs. She missed an opportunity with Travelogue to present at least "Impossible Dreamer" in a better light. In terms of her writing about the political climate, world affairs, etc. I would encourage her to go for it! Who better to find truth/beauty and make sense of things than Joni? Bob NP: Ginger MacKenzie, "tired" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 08:30:52 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project > I'll add that underneath the production and synthetic dreck oflie > some VERY good songs. Bob, did you ever say that before??? I'm so pleased. > She missed an opportunity with Travelogue to present at > least "Impossible Dreamer" in a better light. I hadn't thought of that, and it's an excellent point. What a beautiful song to record with an orchestra! Although I really do like that song a LOT as it is on DED. > Who better to find truth/beauty and make sense of things than Joni? No one! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 11:37:53 -0500 From: "Marianne Rizzo" Subject: The Fiddle and the Drum >Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:16:49 -0000 >From: "Lucy Hone" >Subject: the w word..fiddle and the drum NJC? >The fiddle and the drum... >Powerful song this... why cannot it be taken up as an anthem and sung > >loudly >and long throughout the world... >But would they listen? these leaders? I think not........ >Lucy >Who is sadder about the imminence of this slaughter than she can really >articulate. WE could play and sing The Fiddle and the Drum this week and wish our hearts out or "pray" or ask the universe or what ever it is we all do. . . . and Hope with all our might for a peaceful solution Marianne _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 11:51:15 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: sounds like joni is thinking about her next project In a message dated 3/5/2003 11:30:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > Bob, did you ever say that before??? I'm so pleased. I feel like I've said that before...but just to officially clarify: Good Friends (an OK pop song)C+ Fiction (Much too busy lyrically)F The Three Great Stimulants (solid Joni, literate & pensive) A- Tax Free (Preachy rhetorical lyrics, anti-melodic) F Smokin' (Empty, Try Another) (A novelty throwawy, coulda been a contender and some funky bass work) C- Dog Eat Dog (Great song, weak production)A Shiny Toys (Good production (for what it was), weak song)D Ethiopia (Beautiful and so sad) A Impossible Dreamer (ditto but a bit more hopeful) A Lucky Girl (another OK pop song)C So there you go...like I say, SOME good songs here. 3 "A's" and an A- ! If it was a schoolkid it would get a free pass to the movies or something! :~) Bob NP: David McAlmont, "Lose My Faith" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 11:59:58 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Does everyone still like me alot?(NJC) --- Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > Everyone used to tell me how wonderful I am,how > much they liked what I had > to say.Does everyone still feel that way?thanks. But of course! Silly child - we loveya! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:08:03 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: JMDL project Let's buy her a nice new grand piano. :-) Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 12:36:46 -0500 From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re: Joni's cover art/DED Cover You know, I never thought of the possibilty of Joni being one of the dogs, sort of like the ringleader, maybe? A human incarnation of the dog, which resembles many of the characters within the album. I guess I was subconsciously being sexist thinking, "Oh, Joni is playing the victim again, see those dogs ripping at her female body".. But, now that the picture can be both it makes it even more dynamic for me. Joni's worst album cover for me, despite it's cheeriful colors and acoutrements, is Songs to A Seagull. I suppose if anything, it summarizes the innocence and naievity of Joni at that point in time. And not that the Travelogue cover is bad or poor art, but i was bit dissapointed to see another "Framed Painted Portait" album cover. I am ready for a new look, personally. and Yes, that Girls from the Valley cover which isnt Joni's is awful, the sketch of her on the cover looks more like a melting Carol Channing than anyone. Blair NP:House of Stained Glass-Ornette Coleman and Joachim Kuhn > > --- Blair Fraipont wrote: > > You know Dog eat Dog is a great cover too, > > if only the Album title > > wasn't Dog Eat Dog. Mind you, I only say this in the > > context of discussing > > of album artwork. Because the title is Dog Eat Dog, > > is just seems obvious > > what the album is saying. if say the album was > > called, "Incendiary Soul" or > > "Tax Free" it almost becomes a stronger image, the > > dogs seemingly ripping at > > each other and at Joni. > >I like those suggestions, esp. "Incendiary soul." >Funny thing about the dogs/wolves though. To me, on >the DED cover, even though I sometimes see it as dogs >attacking, I usually see it as Joni being part of the >pack. Those dogs look like they're having fun jumping >around and carrying on, maybe howling. And Joni's >right in there with them howlin' and yowlin' - leading >the chorus, if you will. > >When you come right down to it, maybe the question >should be, "what Joni cover is the worst and which >least represents her?" How about that horrible "girls >in the valley" ripoff of "Ladies in the canyon"? We >can't even blame that one on Joan, which is why it so >obviously stands out as something that sucks badly - >she didn't do it! > > >===== >Catherine >Toronto > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:39:15 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Religion (NJC) Freddy b wrote: >this is where all religion falls down, the inflexibility, the >intolerence, the closed shop mentality, you will be welcomed >into any religion as long as you toe the line, but if you rock >the boat or ask awkward questions and you will be as welcome >as a fart in a diving suit. Inflexibility? Intolerance? Gosh, Freddy, sounds like you could teach religion a few things. Such a blanket condemnation puts you in the same class of people who say "ALL gays are...", "ALL blacks are...", "ALL Asians are...", etc., etc. Disgustedly, - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 12:39:11 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Joni mention in "Laurel Canyon" movie review Wally and I got together again yesterday and wouldn't ya know it? We found another Joni mention out there. While reading InNewsWeekly, a local Boston rag, we came across a review of a movie called "Laurel Canyon," by "openly queer writer/director" Lisa Cholodenko, whose previous feature film was "High Art." (NOTE: I hate the term *openly queer* or *openly gay* as much as I can't stand *self-confessed*. Although the terms may have had a place in journalism a couple of decades ago, to write or say *openly queer* or *openly gay* seems dated now. How about *queer* or *gay* if the issue needs to be brought up in a description of a person? Then, when referring to people who aren't open in their sexuality, use adjectives like *alledged* or *closeted* or don't mention their sexual preferences at all. But I digress . . . ) Anyway, the movie has some big names attached, such as Frances McDormand, Kate Beckensale, and Christian Bale ("American Psycho" and Gloria Steinem's stepson, but I digress again.) I tried to find a link to the review at the paper's Web site, but there isn't one. Here's a sentence from the last paragraph of the article, which mentions Joni: "Incidentally, the writer/director admits to formulating "Laurel Canyon" whilst listening to Joni Mitchell's "Ladies of the Canyon" album." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:49:21 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: Joni mention in "Laurel Canyon" movie review The director also based McDormand's character on Carly Simon, according to an article in Premiere magazine about the movie, though she is meant to be a modern-day Mrs. Robinson, seducing young men and playing the melted down ice queen. - -Andrew Murphycopy@aol.com wrote:Wally and I got together again yesterday and wouldn't ya know it? We found another Joni mention out there. While reading InNewsWeekly, a local Boston rag, we came across a review of a movie called "Laurel Canyon," by "openly queer writer/director" Lisa Cholodenko, whose previous feature film was "High Art." (NOTE: I hate the term *openly queer* or *openly gay* as much as I can't stand *self-confessed*. Although the terms may have had a place in journalism a couple of decades ago, to write or say *openly queer* or *openly gay* seems dated now. How about *queer* or *gay* if the issue needs to be brought up in a description of a person? Then, when referring to people who aren't open in their sexuality, use adjectives like *alledged* or *closeted* or don't mention their sexual preferences at all. But I digress . . . ) Anyway, the movie has some big names attached, such as Frances McDormand, Kate Beckensale, and Christian Bale ("American Psycho" and Gloria Steinem's stepson, but I digress again.) I tried to find a link to the review at the paper's Web site, but there isn't one. Here's a sentence from the last paragraph of the article, which mentions Joni: "Incidentally, the writer/director admits to formulating "Laurel Canyon" whilst listening to Joni Mitchell's "Ladies of the Canyon" album." - --Bob Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 09:56:09 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Religion (NJC) > you will be as welcome as a fart in a diving suit. Personally, I always wear my diving suit to church, and people do look at me funny when it expands for no apparent reason ... (SBDs) ... But seriously, although I'm not a church-goer, I've heard very very good things about the Unitarian Universalist Church. http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/uufaq.html Lori, not intending to promote, just inform ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:54:58 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: NJC Debs Poll whenever people say 'he' referring to god, i like to add on 'or she'... anyone who would be offended at the useage of 'she' but not 'he' has much deeper issues...lol... but the dude is out of bounds to go changing someone's quote around to say what he wants...this incident, though it may seem small, is actually quite the opposite & i'd hang on to what is right like a pit bull...if i were you deb... > I'm doing a quickie poll out there to find out if people find the use of > female pronouns for God to be offensive. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 13:05:29 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Religion (NJC) Freddy wrote: << > you will be as welcome as a fart in a diving suit. Lori replied: Personally, I always wear my diving suit to church, and people do look at me funny when it expands for no apparent reason ... (SBDs) ... >> And I'll add this gem: Confucius say, "Man who fart in church sit in own pew." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:10:37 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The Fiddle and the Drum Marianne wrote: > WE could play and sing The Fiddle and the Drum this week > and wish our hearts out > or "pray" > or ask the universe > or what ever it is we all do. . . . > and Hope > with all our might > for a peaceful solution One of the most beautiful moments at last year's JoniFest, imo, was when Kay and Alison sang "The Fiddle and the Drum" ... it brought tears to my eyes. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 13:15:47 -0500 From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Some trivia - Joni "blesses" Crows' BYT I don't know if this is true or not, but I picked it up off the Counting Crows discussion forum. By the way, the Crows' cover of BYT continues to climb the charts and is now charting in three American radio formats and is a hit in the UK, NZ and Australia. Bryan I asked him if he'd had feedback from Joni on his version of BYT, and he said she was there at the time they were recording it; she was in the next studio recording something, and someone brought her in to listen, (and he was embarassed), and she liked it. So CC's BYT has Joni's stamp of approval, if any hard-core Joni fans were struggling with the concept.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:16:06 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: female god? njc During a "vitamin A"-inspired moment in the mid-1980s, I was enlightened by the concept that god is a HUGE EYE consisting of all colors ... no gender involved. That's still my idea of god. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:17:49 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: female god? njc > Maybe we need a new pronoun or two in English! Shahee? Lori ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 20:04:59 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Re: cats (njc) hi >>>>catherine wrote > Piano or computer? Every now and then, one of my goofy > cats climbs onto the (piano) electronic keyboard and > manages to turn it on and play spooky cat music on it. lol!!! i guess theyre trying to get some serious amplification for one of their late night yowling competitions!!! :-) ron np - blind boys of alabama - wade in the water ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 10:18:53 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: female god? njc > So...is Michael Jackson God? It's possible that HE thinks so! ; ) Lori ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #162 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)