From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #146 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 146 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- NJC Grammies [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: the Grammies njc ["Jim Leonard" ] CBC show on Joni and Norah Jones [Aerchak@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Joni highs and lows ["Jim Leonard" ] whatcha reading? SJC [Emily Gray Tedrowe ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Brett Easton Ellis NJC ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] NJC - Evil Vinnie strikes again ;~) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: love's illusions (njc) ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: The State of the List ["Lori Fye" ] State of the List ["Mark Tatum" ] ecg NJC [colin ] RE: The State of the List ["Lori Fye" ] Re: love's illusions (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] RE: The State of the List [ReckersL@ebrd.com] Joni Highs and Lows [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: The Notorious Inner Circle - njc [Gerald Notaro ] NJC Lieve! ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: Re-Woodstock ["gene mock" ] heads up for those in la (njc) ["ron" ] Re: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all [David Sadowski ] Re: CBC show on Joni [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: Re-Woodstock [FMYFL@aol.com] What brought you to Joniland....bizarrely this may be NJC? now NJC ["Kate] Civility and the lack thereof NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] welcome ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fwd: Statue update [frasere@intergate.ca] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 [Eyelines@aol.com] Re: State of the List/what brought you to joniland? ["blonde in the bleac] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:28:54 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Grammies In a message dated 2/24/2003 11:31:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, LiliLove33@hotmail.com writes: > Jeez anyone with an edge! But if "the edge" doesn't sell, the music industry has no incentive for rewarding it. As for Lucinda, just wait until April...the early word is that her latest is a masterpiece! Always remember that Milli Vanilli won a Grammy and that tells you all you need to know about them. An interesting observation about that Norah Jones record...when it first came out many stores offered it at a VERY cheap price, I remember it being $7.99 at most locations. Maybe its success will make the suits realize that good music at reasonable prices can be very successful. Bob NP: Lenny Kravitz, "Are You Gonna Go My Way" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:26:53 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: the Grammies njc From: "Victor Johnson" > I was glad to see John Mayer and India Arie win some awards. > Although I'd read about him several times in the last year, Sunday's Grammy Awards was the first time I'd heard John Mayer. I was immediately struck by how much (understatement) he seemed to me to be a clone of Dave Matthews ... his voice, his song, his demeanor, his "interesting" guitar work. What am I missing? Is he not "the new Dave Matthews?" Is there something original going on that I missed? Those aren't rhetorical questions. If he's recommended listening, I'll check him out. One song does not make a good basis for judgment. (Or is that "judgement?") :-) Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:32:17 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: CBC show on Joni and Norah Jones My major concern regarding the JMDL at the present moment is finding a subscriber in Canada with a functioning VCR who can tape the program. I am wondering if there is a cultural difference among Canadians and Americans (that I was unaware of ) regarding electronic equipment. The people who have posted about taping the show all seem to have unreliable VCRs or confusion about tapes. I am a single woman and have two VCRs and a DVD. Surely, there is a subcriber in Canada who can tape the show. There are places that will make a copy for you or you could send it to one of us (me) and it could be duplicated. If not, someone in the states should be able to get this on satellite. You know who you are, whether you get CBC, so please step on up. About Norah Jones.....In the December article in W magazine, Joni stated that she liked Norah because she she didn't try too hard or something like that. She was the only new artist that Joni mentioned, other than Bjork, who she said she liked more as a performer. Also, Ravi Shankar is Norah's biological father, which I find extremely interesting. In spite of it all, I am oddly addicted to the JMDL. Please note that sometimes when I post, some of my directness is half truth - half tongue in cheek. Many people have been lovely to me on this list and I have engaged in many pleasant exchanges. The only person on the list I love is Bruce who I have been friends with for 33 years. I save my love for my friends and family. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:34:52 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 --- Lili Love wrote: > > I just don't see how the same kids who like Nelly, > Eminem, Pink, No Doubt, > Ludicris (sp?) can also listen to Norah Jones. I don't think it's the kids listening to her. I think it's the old farts (like me). I agree with you though - - she's pleasant, she's sweet, her singing is pretty, the music is nice, but there's no edge. She's safe. Maybe people needed safe. I just asked my daughter (today is her 16th birthday) if any of her friends liked Norah. She has a few friends that do, and Sarah sort of likes her, but most of them listen to hip-hop or John Mayer and people like that. I think Norah came along at a good time to catch the attention of the older listeners or some younger ones who might, as a result, check out jazz. I wish her well, but she's going to be her own toughest act to follow having won so many grammies her first time out. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:25:03 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 Rules of Attraction (ROA) really was a great read. Not as brilliant as I think American Psycho (AP) is, but I did read Rules very closely because I wanted to follow exacttly what was being said - and you are the first person that I know of who has commented on the "mindless dismissial of other people" and want to yell, "yes, yes" and wish I had put that into words - that is a great insight and key to the book. As for Bob's comments about characters that "I just don't care about" well that is one of the challenges huh? For me it has been not to like or dislike the characters (who is there to like?) but to see myself in those characters, to see the, shall we say, less flattering aspects of my own self being writ large like that, taken to the next level - As for ROA and AP - aren't our main chgaracters brothers? It is a Bateman in each book (think about that name, hmmmm) and I think in ROA we are briefly introduced to the Bateman in AP. For me AP is is in part a very chilling indictment on the materialism of the the 80s and the critique of our culture I so utterly agree with - and as Ellis counterposes the culture of acquistion against war, peace, and jjustice issues (especially in the restaurant scene but elsewhere) I think it is as applicable today, maybe much more so, than it was in the 80s. I say that wearing my American Trails shirt, lookiong at the time on my Timex single stemmed black and silver watch, making a subtle change of foot position in my AndOne shoes, my aerobiciced and yoga-pilated body flexing beneath the Levi 501 jeans and readjusting my Parveau reading glasses which are just large enough to help me read print and text and my Apple G4 monitor but not so large as to appear as if I actually needed glasses. When my dad was in the hospital in Decembner I had several Bret Easton Ellis books with me (the only one I haven't read is Glamorama) and it was quite the juxtaposition sometimes to look up from the book and deal with my father! Question: would you recommend a Bret Perry Ellis book - especially AP - to anyone else? Don't know that I would with AP - as brilliant a book as I think it is, the best fiction that I read in many,many years, I am afraid of what others would think of me if they read it and knew how much I liked it - would they catch the penetrating relentless reflectiuon of American life, or simply think I was a sicko with demented reading tastes? Vince Tamsin Lucas' post I'm quite a fan of The Rules of Attraction most of all. All that emptiness and angst and mindless dismissal of other people... - sometimes being at university did feel like that - as if everyone was competing to be the most "angsty" - - I think that's what I particularly liked about TRoA. Also I love Donna Tartt's The Secret History and the same characters pop up in the background of both books which is cool. I believe Tartt and Eliis went to the same college. Bob's post >Bret Easton Ellis = a very talented writer with characters I just can't care >about, which makes for a strange reading experience. (And I'm not just >talking about "American Psycho" here.) > http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:36:34 EST From: CDTraderJohn@aol.com Subject: Joni CD-R Trees When I joined this group a few months back, I had hoped to be able to participate in some upcoming CD-R Trees but have, as you are probably aware, noticed that none have been offered. This is supported by the fact that the JMDL web site shows that the "most recent" trees were run in 1999, and then, mostly only on tape. Of the one CD-R tree from that year, I have never come across either of the 1972 shows available on anyone's trade list. They may be out there, but apparently not in very wide circulation. While I have been able to locate some of Joni's earlier shows in my trading circles (and, then, sometimes with great difficulty), I have noted that many of the ones I have received have originated from tape sources that were obviously many generations removed from the originals. This has left we wondering if the time isn't ripe to pursue a "remastering" project, not unlike what is occurring at RUST (the Neil Young trade group) so that these shows can be preserved, shared and enjoyed in their "best available" versions. While my own particular interest is in Joni's earlier (pre '74) "folk" era, I would be willing to share in the duties of running (administering) some trees here if there is any interest. This would, of course, require one (or two or three) of the group's archivists to be willing to come forward with the "best available" source tapes in order for this to make any sense. I, myself, am not very adept at the technical aspect of "remastering", but can provide some basic skills if no one else volunteers. We would also benefit from someone's artistic talent at creating jewel case artwork to house and protect these shows/compilations. Now that CD-R's have really taken the place of cassettes for traders, isn't it about time that these shows were preserved and shared in this format? If anyone is in support of this idea, please let others know. If any of the archivists are reading this and would be willing to participate (it can't happen without you) please get in touch and let me know your thoughts. If anyone else is willing to volunteer their time and/or skills to see this happen, please get in touch with whoever you know to be influential in this group. I hope I haven't crossed any lines with this post. My intent (besides wanting to obtain some of these shows for myself) is to see that the best available versions of these wonderful performances survive into the future for as many as possible to be able to enjoy. Thanks for reading. Please share your thoughts. Regards, John Epstein ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:34:02 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 --- Lili Love wrote: > > I just don't see how the same kids who like Nelly, > Eminem, Pink, No Doubt, > Ludicris (sp?) can also listen to Norah Jones. Ludicris spelled right, by the way! Catherine replies: I don't think it's the kids listening to her. I think it's the old farts (like me). I agree with you though - - she's pleasant, she's sweet, her singing is pretty, the music is nice, but there's no edge. She's safe. Not all of the people who listen to No Doubt, etc., would not play Norah Jones - I know kids who have very broad tastes - like a lot of us - when I was a kid back in the day, I could go from Joni to Steppenwolf to Quicksilver Messengre Service not in the same minute maybe but in the same hour :-) But I think Catherine is exactly right on in her assessment of Norah Jones. She's safe. That says it all. She has talent too in singing her safe songs. But what does she have to say? Give me a Tracy Chapman 1,000,000 times over a Norah Jones who writes her own songs and has something she wants to communicate. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:43:48 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Welcome! NJC Hi Robin. Welcome to the JMDL! I hope you find this space fun and informative. You may notice we're having a bit of an identity crisis (only a little one) because we've been swamped with political discussions of late. Don't worry. We'll sort it all out, like we always do. There are a lot of warm, friendly people here. One member recently likened us to a virtual pub. I, for one, am still waiting for my virtual wine to kick in, but other than that have no real complaints. You'll find life easier (trust me) if you respond without including the original digest. Just a gentle reminder. So come one in, the water's fine :-) lots of love Anne NP: a *#$%^# squirrel that's in the wall!!!!! Good thing the PETA folks haven't descended on us yet! Any ideas on getting rid of the bugger are more than welcome! Where are those WSDs (weapons of squirrel destruction) when you need tham??? For Robin - NP means "now playing" NPIMH is "now playing in my head" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:13:42 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: Brett Easton Ellis NJC Hi Vince, your last paragraph made me think "Exactly"!!! I too would be concerned that if I recommended AP to someone they would think i was disturbed at best :) but I guess it depends on who you recommend these things too. I think much of AP makes for VERY uncomfortable reading and that can often put people off - it's sometimes difficult when we're confronted with main characters who are difficult/impossible to sympathise with, it's all to easy to dismiss the book (or film, whatever) itself rather than looking beyond the surface. AP is probably fairly extreme in this (at least in my experience) and I think it must have taken a considerable amount of bravery to write something like this but I do find it interesting to read novels etc with what might at first seem to be very unattractive characters - RoA is a good example of this I think though the book is far less shocking on the surface. I'm also thinking of many of Fassbinder's films - some of his characters are grotesque but he takes you into their emotional life and I find that deeply affecting. As you say this can hold a mirror up to ourselves - it might not be comfortable but it surely is interesting and it might even be rewarding. I think maybe you could put Eminem in that bracket too - ? Some of his stuff makes me uncomfortable but it cerainly makes me think. And yes! I remember now that in RoA Sean refers to his older brother Patrick. I haven't read Glamorama either but I really think I must now. tamsin _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:09:37 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni highs and lows From: > In a message dated 2/25/2003 8:47:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: > > > My vote would go to "Sweet Sucker Dance" from "Mingus." > > Dammit - you STOLE my pick! At least I can say that I have gone on record as saying this several times before, so I can't be accused of jumping on the "Boston Jim bandwagon"! ;~) > As a matter of fact, SCJoniGuy, I do recall those earlier mentions and all I could say was "right on!" > If you haven't heard Joni's vocals on this track, your Joni-homework song of the day (I LOVE that idea Ron!) is "Sweet Sucker Dance". Not just the purity of her voice, but the way she effortlessly jumps from blue note to blue note, the emotion she conveys with every breath... Wow, it blows me away. > As is so often the case, you communicate our position on this performance with tremendous eloquence, sir. Joni never was more of a bona fide "jazz singer" than on this track, and she just absolutely nailed it. She wrote great lyrics for this Mingus tune, too. Jim NP: Wynton Marsalis and the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra with special guest vocalists, including Cassandra Wilson (sigh), the Pulitzer Prize-winning "Blood On The Fields" (Gotta love these days off!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:17:59 -0500 From: Emily Gray Tedrowe Subject: whatcha reading? SJC hi folks. after lots of time spent thinking about what i like, and do not like, about the JMDL, i figured out that my favorite non-joni threads tend to be the same kind of conversations i gravitate to at parties, dinners, bars, the bus stop...that is, music (especially but not exclusively aimee mann, bjork, wilco, phish...), art (like the new hiroshi sugimoto exhibit at the MCA in chicago), and primarily--BOOKS. since i'm a writer, i tend to hang out with various artsy, head-in-the-clouds types who usually seem less passionate about the political state of the day than about the topics i mentioned above. or about finding the cheapest burrito place around. (although that's not always true--maybe i'm underplaying how much my friends and social acquaintances care about the various day to day sadness in the news or whether we just usually reserve that kind of talk for another time and place.) in any case, i was thinking that what i might do at a big long dinner party if the tide turned too long to talk of war that saddened and scared me--and what i might do is quietly turn to my neighbor and ask what he or she was reading. see if that person wanted to sideline a small conversation. i'm always interested. i've loved our talk of books here on the list...i'm enjoying the current bret easton ellis thread, for example. so, whatcha reading? personally, i just finished john updike's newest novel "seek my face" (my husband has a dirty but funny way of misstating that title). it's a fictionalized portrait of jackson pollock's wife--and for the life of me i can't recall her actual name! how embarrassing...anyone? i just adore john updike's writing--there were sentences in this book that made me stop and re read them again, in an agony of pleasure over what some people can do with language. the novel covers this woman's life in art, her own painting--and her struggle to work with her own vision and goals even as she is surrounded by (and marries a number of) men who seem to grab the spotlight so much more intensely. kinda reminds me of JM, now that i think about it! (especially the themes on "for the roses" or "hejira") anyway, now i'm on to richard ford's collection of short stories-- can't remember the title but there is a gorgeous photo of grand central station of the cover, i believe. enjoying it. well, that's my offering! i also want to thank les for the opportunity to read and contribute to this list...of my various email tasks and correspondence, it's (usually) a nice break in the day! - -- emily, in cold chicago ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:26:57 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 My southern brother wrote of the Bret easte[on Ellis stuff: "C'mon Vince - NJC this stuff!" and as always Bob is right - twice in 24 hours I have forgotten the NJC tag and damn it I am sorry. I am about to go beat myself up for that because a second apology will sound weak - but I blew it pure and simple, twice now in a few hours, and it is inexcusable. Not much else to say but I feel worse about it than the JoniOnlys. I am going on hiatus for a while in penance. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:28:3 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: John Mayer njc > Although I'd read about him several times in the last year, Sunday's Grammy > Awards was the first time I'd heard John Mayer. I was immediately struck by > how much (understatement) he seemed to me to be a clone of Dave Matthews ... > his voice, his song, his demeanor, his "interesting" guitar work. What am I > missing? Is he not "the new Dave Matthews?" To tell you the truth, I don't particularly like "Your Body is a Wonderland". I think he has many better songs. He is an amazing guitarist...I'm not blown away by his singing. I think he is definately worth checking out. I wouldn't have selected that particular song but it seems so often that the material that gets the most exposure isn't nearly as good as other songs that get less attention. Victor in Decatur - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:40:14 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: Re: Brett Easton Ellis NJC Tamsin, your comment about Em is exactly right - I woudl also apply it to Oliver Stone's Natural Born Killers - that mirror is held up to show what we do not see, perhaps by choice - I will email you offlist a link to a Bret Easton Ellis list whoich is not very active but perhaps we can make it so - having screwed up on NJC twice in a few hours I am feeling very hesitant to post for a while - and I am thinking I have used up my time for now anyway - Tamsin, it has been so cool, with Bob, to have this discussion - as Emily said, discussing books is so worth while and I am hoping Joseph in Manilla will see the Fassbinder reference because he is our foremost cinema-ista and may have some good things to add! I hope this thread will continue but for a while it will have be, as Eminem said, "without me." Keep posting on Bret Easton Ellis because I have been dyting for this conversation for a long time and I am so very informed by what you are saying - Vince the negligent NJC poster Hi Vince, your last paragraph made me think "Exactly"!!! I too would be concerned that if I recommended AP to someone they would think i was disturbed at best :) but I guess it depends on who you recommend these things too. I think much of AP makes for VERY uncomfortable reading and that can often put people off - it's sometimes difficult when we're confronted with main characters who are difficult/impossible to sympathise with, it's all to easy to dismiss the book (or film, whatever) itself rather than looking beyond the surface. AP is probably fairly extreme in this (at least in my experience) and I think it must have taken a considerable amount of bravery to write something like this but I do find it interesting to read novels etc with what might at first seem to be very unattractive characters - RoA is a good example of this I think though the book is far less shocking on the surface. I'm also thinking of many of Fassbinder's films - some of his characters are grotesque but he takes you into their emotional life and I find that deeply affecting. As you say this can hold a mirror up to ourselves - it might not be comfortable but it surely is interesting and it might even be rewarding. I think maybe you could put Eminem in that bracket too - ? Some of his stuff makes me uncomfortable but it cerainly makes me think. And yes! I remember now that in RoA Sean refers to his older brother Patrick. I haven't read Glamorama either but I really think I must now. tamsin _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:40:09 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: Joni highs and lows Re "Sweet Sucker Dance": One last thing, and then I'm going to HAVE to say I've reached my quota of posts for the day (week?) ... The "degree of difficulty" in singing this Mingus melody has got to be at least an 8 on a scale of 10. I think that's part of what Bob was referring to when he wrote "the way she effortlessly jumps from blue note to blue note." Damn difficult jumps they were! She was no slouch on "Dry Cleaner" and "Pork Pie Hat," either. A good portion of "Mingus" represented a home run for Joni, and it's too bad more of her audience at the time didn't cheer her for hitting it. It seemed to me to be a logical progression from the THOSL, "Hejira" and DJRD albums then, and I felt my opinion was perfectly legitimized by the integration of the Mingus material on "Shadows And Light" (my all-time favorite Joni album - on which her singing, overall, was ther best it's ever been, I think). Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:51:47 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC - Evil Vinnie strikes again ;~) In a message dated 2/25/2003 11:27:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, revrvl@chartermi.net writes: > I am going on hiatus for a while in penance. > No biggie, Michigan bro...I hope y'all enjoy the "what are you reading now" thread. Just remember to put the NJC tag in the header. You're absolved - now go & sin no more! ;~) Bob, currently reading "Parental Advisory - Music Censorship In America" by Eric Nuzum - a fascinating read. NP: Blind Boys, "Run On For A Long Time" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:13:9 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: love's illusions (njc) > I don't mean to come off as heartless, or as "a heel." In truth, I'm a real > good guy I reckon. People who know me like me a lot - I'm blessed with a lot > of friendships I've maintained from different points and places in my life - > and I don't know many people who are more compassionate and empathetic and > willing to go out of their way for others than I am "in real life." I guess > it's just that that's not what I come to the JMDL for, or what I feel the > list should be about. Hi Jim! I completely understand where you're coming from. What I don't understand is why these two different groups of people on the list can't simply coexist with each other. The thing is, I think very few people came here for the specific purpose of finding close, lasting friendships. I know I didn't and never expected to, at least initially. That's just how things have developed. And it's not just Anne who has experienced outpourings of love and support. That's just the kind of people these are. Anne has been a huge inspiration to me and to many others. But this is not a support group and it is not a therapy group. I've seen several instances where listmembers have been incredibly supportive of each other but it is out of true, genuine friendship and it is not an illusion. In some cases, the online relationship with people seemed almost secondary to the real friendship. Maybe there could be a separate "Joni Fest" list or > something where the "community" thing is the thing ... where the most active > participants of the 800 JMDL subscribers, who've forged a bond with one > another, and who choose to subscribe and participate, can keep each other > abreast of happenings in their daily lives and receive support and > friendship "on list" from one another, for all to see. I'm sorry but it just doesn't make any sense to me that people who have been on the JMDL for years, some from the very beginning, have contributed to it for a long time and have been integral to the growth, endurance, and development of this community, should make a major change to the nature of this community, should have to censor their messages to not show any personality or sense of close friendship, when, in a large part, that is the very thing that makes this list so special, and such a unique community. The bottom line is, you get what you put into something. If you want to use this list more sparsely on a more limited basis then simply do that. What bothers you so much about people who have developed close friendships? Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:24:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The State of the List Rose wrote: > I suggested it before........ a forum board (instead of live email > via smoe) accessed only on the JMDL. I think this would detract from the spontaneity of the list, at least as concerns those who've chosen to receive individual posts. However, this: > We can have one discussion forum for political discussions (which is > where you must post them) at least for political posts, is a good idea and might be the way to go. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:25:11 -0600 From: "Mark Tatum" Subject: State of the List I am optimistic about the state of the list. While I agree that we are in a trough of sorts right now, I think it's due in part to the present state of the world, and in part to TLOG, like BSN, not having "new" original Joni material. This list is a definite community,and like all communities it occasionally manifests some discord, sometimes seeks to establish a "government", etc.; but if it were a real town, it would be a great place to live because of the people. There are a lot of very generous and thoughtful people on this list, and I think they are the ones who will turn out to be the permanent residents here. Instead of working on a "zoning" ordinance, why don't we take on a "public service" project? I'll throw out a couple of ideas. Jim recently suggested we consider what should go in a Joni 4cd box set. What if we instead consider what should go in an actual set (number of cds to be discussed) of live, noncommercial Joni performances that chronicle the "best of the best" in terms of her songs and best available versions? I know the list has some made some trees in the past, but this would be quite different, and Bob Muller not only is our "resident" expert on Joni recordings, but also has an incredible collection of her live performances. Maybe we could start a new cd tree (and definitely not burden Bob); maybe we might even be able to offer visitors to the JMDL homepage a way to download two or three such songs as a way of getting them interested buying Joni's albums. Another idea is an actual gift to Joni from the list that would allow each member to include something or to contribute in some way. The cookbook was before my time here, but is a good example. How about some cds from us (Jonifest-type performances?) in one of these boxes: www.cleverwood.com/about1.htm www.cleverwood.com/japanese_artists_price_list.htm ? Who knows what that might lead to? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:31:16 +0000 From: colin Subject: ecg NJC i juts got back. I ahve angina. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:06:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: RE: The State of the List Lieve wonders: > What will be considered Political? "The personal is the political." Lori ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:08:26 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Re: love's illusions (njc) > Anne has been a huge inspiration to me and to many others. Thank you so much, Victor! Even I'm starting to get a sugar buzz from all the well wishing going on here the last few days :-) And again, a big thanks to this community for being what it is. WARNING: PERSONAL AND MEDICAL CONTENT I'm going in to Dana-Farber for what could be one of those milestone appointments this afternoon. I forget what I've told the list about my progress. Quickly, I had surgery to remove one tumor (same exact location as the previous one) in September. I was pain-free for months. My tumor marker number has been low normal (which is fantastic!) I'm undergoing treatment with an experimental cancer vaccine. This is the second Phase I clinical trial I'm in. I'm the first and only human being to receive both this and the previous vaccine treatment. Sadly, I've been experiencing pain the last week or so. Fortunately, there is another clinical trial following the one I'm currently in. It's shown real promise with the patients in it. In order to qualify, I have to be able to prove that I have active tumor. The CT scans and tumor markers so far show no tumor, but my body has started to say otherwise. We'll see... No need to respond, folks, or you can reply privately. I'll post a quick update when I know more. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:14:13 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: The State of the List Sounds good and I know exactly what it means and why - but it does not really help this discussion. Sometimes we have to read between the lines and understand what people mean, not how their words can be twisted. -----Original Message----- From: Lori Fye [SMTP:lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 6:07 PM To: ReckersL@ebrd.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: The State of the List Lieve wonders: > What will be considered Political? "The personal is the political." Lori EBRD SECURITY NOTICE This email has been virus scanned ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:34:42 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Joni Highs and Lows There is a sweetness and ease in Help Me that Joni has on no other song. The thing about Joni's singing, is that, even if you don't care for the song, she nails it. So for me there are many highs; a seemingly effortless ability to glide through a melody, no matter how difficult. I love NRH almost from start to finish, but noticed that Joni's voice seems kind of frail and quiet, coming through as breath without sound at points. When she returned with TI, the raspy quality remained, but somehow, she sounds stronger to me. Anyone else notice this? But I would still not call this a "low". Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:37:19 -0500 From: Gerald Notaro Subject: Re: The Notorious Inner Circle - njc Brian Gross wrote: > At 10:00 this evening, medication will be dispensed by Nurse Ratchet and > her assistant, Bob McMurphy. > Please line up at the sliding window for your blue pill and joint blue pill and a joint? Now that's my kind of asylum! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:39:58 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all To Andrea and her fellow yankee friends, I will volunteer to tape the CBC program on Joni next week so that all my comrades down south can view it. My VCR is fully functional and I am also a Canadian, which is the biggest irony of all. (Not really, but I like the word "irony.") So, I'll tape it, send it to Andrea, who has volunteered to be the nascent queen bee and breeder of these tapes. I suppose it will then be up to her to distribute the tapes, based on demand. I'll tape it. That's final. - -Andrew (Andrea, contact me with address info. and any additional comments) Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:43:22 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: NJC Lieve! Everyone - stop reading - this is a private message for Lieve and I can't reach her any other way - Lieve - ???????????????? no clue why that is happening - no clue at all -- but then I live being clueless so... ?????????? Vince the Clueless ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:45:39 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Re-Woodstock thanks, great post. later gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 5:41 AM Subject: Re-Woodstock > When Joni sang the song at "A Day in the Garden" she introduced the song > with a very moving speech " My generation was given a pocket of liberty > like no other generation before", I think she pretty much felt it to be an > anthem of the times, but if you listen to the CD she goes on to pretty much > say it was short lived. But the song has a lasting value of explaining who we > are, where we come from and where we should be heading! It certily has > worked well with all my medications over the years, and to think a young > unambitious girl wrote such an insightful song without even attending the > main event. Being there and hearing her talk about the song is one historic > event in my book. The live recording is one of the best live perfomances I've > ever heard, hot stickey day, fingers sticking to the strings, and no mistakes. > I love Joni and no other singer/songwriter will ever take me where she has > everyday for 35 years, and I never tire of anything she does. > Meeting her was a great honor, the biggest of my life, and she was so kind > though-out the entire weekend at the Mendal opening. She was very engaging, > always looked you straight in the eyes and was full of questions back at me. > She grabbed me and gave me a kiss on the cheek, I didn't grab her. She will > always be "Number One' for me. > > Peace to all! > Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:34:06 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: heads up for those in la (njc) hi this off the michelle shocked list: From Sunday's L.A. Times: http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/suncal/cl-ca-popeye23feb23 .story * Michelle Shocked will give a "Campfire Series" of freewheeling shows at Molly Malone's in L.A. each Tuesday from March 4 through April 1. They'll feature a solo performance threading episodes from her life in story and song, but will also involve guest performers, art displays and audience-involvement elements on a different topical theme each week. The first will be titled "Political Weenie Roast," with the similarly food-related "Civil Liberties Are Like Marshmallows" and "Make S'mores Not Wars" among the following. She's also preparing expanded reissues of her four earliest albums, starting with the first complete release of an informal recording made at the 1986 Kerrville Folk Festival that was put out without her knowledge and edited as "The Texas Campfire Tapes." Molly Malone's is a bit of an obscure place, looks like it's on Fairfax, 10 blocks or so South of Largo. http://events.calendarlive.com/top/1,1419,L-LATimes-Home-!PlaceDetail-5270,0 0.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:51:37 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all It would be great if one of our tech savvy members could transfer this to a VCD. Little Bird wrote: >To Andrea and her fellow yankee friends, > >I will volunteer to tape the CBC program on Joni next week so that all my comrades down south can view it. My VCR is fully functional and I am also a Canadian, which is the biggest irony of all. (Not really, but I like the word "irony.") > >So, I'll tape it, send it to Andrea, who has volunteered to be the nascent queen bee and breeder of these tapes. I suppose it will then be up to her to distribute the tapes, based on demand. > >I'll tape it. That's final. > >-Andrew (Andrea, contact me with address info. and any additional comments) >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:53:36 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Fun with Joni - an assignment MG wrote: > Lori had the car thing and that was fun. Nope, that's was Anne's idea, which seemed to branch from "Joni on war" (which of course came from personally politically me). And it was fun, and have we exhausted all the car references yet? > We had parodies about 5 years ago and that was hilarious. Maybe it's > time to try that again. I agree! A couple of things are swirling around in my head, but I don't have time to work on them, so here are some "assignments" for anyone who wants extra credit for Joni Content! : ) 1) Parody "God Must Be A Boogie Man" using the question "What brought you to Joniland?" 2) Damn, now I can't remember! When it comes to me, I'll be back! Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:34:40 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: CBC show on Joni Andrea, I'm going to tape the show, come hell or high water. But you're right about Canadian VCRs! This one I've got - I can find no way to press "record" and have it record. BUT I have worked out how to program it to record at a certain time, so I'll do it that way. ;-) Don't worry - it'll get done. Someone just needs to tell me who to send it to first so it gets sent around to everyone who wants it. Sarah At 7:32hour -0500 02/25/2003, Aerchak@aol.com wrote: >My major concern regarding the JMDL at the present moment is finding a >subscriber in Canada with a functioning VCR who can tape the program. I am >wondering if there is a cultural difference among Canadians and Americans >(that I was unaware of ) regarding electronic equipment. The people who have >posted about taping the show all seem to have unreliable VCRs or confusion >about tapes. I am a single woman and have two VCRs and a DVD. Surely, there >is a subcriber in Canada who can tape the show. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:35:48 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Re-Woodstock In a message dated 2/25/2003 9:44:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, MINGSDANCE@aol.com writes: > > > When Joni sang the song at "A Day in the Garden" she introduced the song > with a very moving speech " My generation was given a pocket of liberty > like no other generation before" Great post Ming! I'm curious....I had only been a jmdler for about 6 months when Joni performed at "A Day in the Garden" on 8-15-98. Did any other jmdlers attend, and if so what did they think of Joni's performance? Jimmy Ming did bring me back a rock from Woodstock, which I have in my garden :~) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:30:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: What brought you to Joniland....bizarrely this may be NJC? now NJC >>and some people you wish you lived next door to.<< lucy i wish you lived next door to me! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:30:23 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Civility and the lack thereof NJC hi bryan, i forget who made that comment but i know that it was just made as a joke between friends...but you bring up a good point that if you aren't familiar with the people it can be easy to misunderstand when folks are being sarcastic... >>Ahhemmmm...I'm not sure who wrote the above comment<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:30:24 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: welcome robin >>"Dawntreader" and "Hejira" are the highlights of Travelogue for me - "Dawntreader" being a new song entirely as i dont own the first album, so what a treat. << welcome robin!!! i'd suggest getting her first album now...it has been my favorite of late! (loved it way back then & i'm loving it all over again) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:39:30 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: I'll tape the CBC show for y'all Thanks Andrew...I think a couple of folks with confidence in their equipment have stepped up, so we should be in shape! If this show is indeed pumped full of commercials, is there a way to either record it or edit them out without compromising the quality of the video? Also, fwiw, the guy I use here in town charges $25 to transfer NTSC to PAL, so it's not cheap but it *would* be possible to get this duped in PAL format. Bob NP: David Lahm, "The Blonde In The Bleachers" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:40:37 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Fwd: Statue update Sarah, I assume you meant to cc the list on this as it is such high JC! Best, Stephen in Vancouver - ----- Forwarded message from sl.m@shaw.ca ----- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:00:41 -0700 Hi Ron and Stephen, Thank you for asking about the statue! Update - I met with a professional fundraiser here in Saskatoon just before Christmas and he advised us not to do anything with the Joni statue until February earliest, as no-one in Saskatoon gives money at the beginning of the year because of Christmas and New Year. So I held off doing anything until recently - now back into it. We have about 500 dollars raised, we've found a sculptor, I'm about to approach Joni's manager to check how she feels about it, I've applied for a Saskatchewan Arts grant which we need non-profit organization status for, so I've applied for that too, and we're having a poster made up for local distribution. We've also made contact with several local business leaders and experienced fundraisers who are all very supportive and interested. I've also started writing to the sponsors of Joni's art exhibition at the Mendel to ask if they will donate to the statue fund. The thing now is to think of a fundraising benefit we can hold and when. If you have any ideas, they'd be very gratefully received. Best, Sarah At 21:47hour -0800 02/24/2003, frasere@intergate.ca wrote: >Quoting ron : > > >> its also a good place to find out about joni :-) >> >> >> ron >> ps - whatever happened to the "beside herself" statue???? > > >Yeah, Sarah, how bout an update?? > >Best, >Stephen in Vancouver - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:44:06 EST From: Eyelines@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 FYI to all, especially those in Chicago - I received the following ad from Davenport's Cabaret in Chicago - Those crazy kids from Folied Again lave a little show of their own in March: Dark Cafe Days: Folied Again sings Joni Mitchell every Friday in March at 10:30 PM. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:45:56 -0500 From: "blonde in the bleachers" Subject: Re: State of the List/what brought you to joniland? I know that in the past I have definitely ruffled some feathers and should have taken a deep breath before I posted about certain things. I think the influx of political posts really started to get to me and therefore I needed to vent. My middle finger innuendo to Andrew was more of a play on the way he wrote about taking your finger and hitting delete, he said he was being a bitch and I know I was. I was also upset about what I felt was a stereotype and how I was sick of the Joni-gay fan posting. I dont think I would be explaining myself unless this topic of the state of the list had been addressed. I bought Blue after hearing Sarah McLaughlans cover of it and proceeded to buy every album Joni has made. Very few of my friends/family listen to Joni (although not through lack of trying) and I was feeling like I had no outlet for my deep appreciation of Joni and her music. I have been a huge lurker on this list for (I think) over two years and came to the JMDL through jonimitchell.com. I have learned more valuable information about Joni Mitchell that I dont think I would have learned elsewhere and am forever grateful for that. I was looking for a community that discussed Joni Mitchell and love to read other peoples opinions/experiences with her music. I enjoy all of the discussions about her lyrics even if they come up more than once a year, i.e. your notches liberation doll and all stories of meeting her, seeing her in concert, etc. There are certain people on this list that I read their posts and respect them even though I have never met them, and am amazed at their humor and humility. I have never been intimidated to post my thoughts (obviously) nor do I feel that there is an inner circle. I really only post when I feel like it although there are many times I would like to email people off list because I totally agree with what they have written. I tend not to as I am not sure if this is an invasion of privacy, and because I only read these posts during work, I tend to run out of time. I would really hate to see this list micro-managed. As I have stated in the past NJC is really my biggest gripe. I dont think you can limit the amount of emails one person posts on any given day nor do I think can you limit the amount of what they write. I think there are always going to be instances where people hurt other people. I definitely fall into the category of believing that I can write what I want because you dont know me, but dont think that I dont have a conscience about it because nine times out of ten, I do. Sometimes you need to vent and sometimes those words can be insensitive. Is this right? Is this wrong? I think that is a matter of opinion but I think that most people dont write posts to insult others, email can come across that way even if it is not meant to. If it werent for this list I dont think I would know anything about Jaco Pastorious, Brian Blade, Herbie Hancock, The Weather Report, Charles Mingus, Chrissy Hynde punching Carly Simon, Fonimitchell, or how many covers there are of This Flight Tonight. So thanks to all of you for all of the wonderful information. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #146 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)