From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #145 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 145 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #143 - Civility and the lack thereof NJC [BRYAN8847] What brought you to Joniland....bizarrely this may be NJC? ["Lucy Hone" <] the state of this list ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: State of the list [colin ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ["robin mortlock" ] love's illusions (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Joni highs and lows [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] a strange boy [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: love's illusions (njc) [colin ] set a spell [twoshoes@sasktel.net] Re-Woodstock [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #143 - Civility and the lack thereof NJC ["Jim Leon] Re: love's illusions (njc) ["Jim Leonard" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ["Tamsin Lucas" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 [colin ] Re: Today's Library Links: February 25 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] State of the List [MGVal@aol.com] RE: The State of the List [ReckersL@ebrd.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:17:16 EST From: BRYAN8847@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #143 - Civility and the lack thereof NJC That is the stupidest, most idiotic thing I have ever read in my life. The only taste you have is in your mouth. How fucking full of shit can one person's uninformed opinion be? I'd call your opinion utter foolishness but that would be an insult to fools everywhere. Ahhemmmm...I'm not sure who wrote the above comment, but I have to say -- for Pete's sake dude, chill out. Can we participate in this forum with some degree of civility, even when (or especially when) we disagree? Such venom and only over who shudda won the best whatever award. Grow up already. Bryan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:41:03 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: What brought you to Joniland....bizarrely this may be NJC? I was looking for some key as to why when I attempted, in that way you do, to play some Joni songs from the books (that have the little pictures) they sounded like utter shit!!! Into the search engine went "Joni Mitchell TABS" and up came the JMDL... Hey fantastic..lots of info that still boggles me...i need a serious one to one year with someone who can really play...(send CV TO.....).. and saw the digest.. so I signed up on Christmas Eve last year..... Yes it was a bit of a bleak one! Since coming to the list I have found it to be warm, welcoming, interesting, informed, erudite, charming, funny, homely, intellectual, open eyed, and a real microcosm of the world at large. IT IS A COMMUNITY. Within a community there will be some you gel with, some you admire from a distance without wanting to be in their shadows one little bit, some you think are downright spooky (still waiting for them to emerge) and some people you wish you lived next door to. I can think of a road I would like to populate with the people I have (virtually) and face to face met on this list... I came here looking for guitar tabs and found new friends all over the world and in the UK. I have a wonderfully rich bunch of e-mails from those I am in touch with off list and that is fantastic for someone who works alone most of the time and finds she is at odds with some of her contemporaries because she is NOT cut from the same template that some of them seem to be. But what brought me to Joni land is Joni....and her music and hearing Little Green drifiting out of a window and knowing I HAD TO HAVE THAT LP..... SIQUOMB isn't she Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:59:49 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: the state of this list stephen wrote >>And during his stay, Steve and Michelle Dulson, and Kate Bennett were in town for the Folk Alliance. We all met for the first time and it was like visiting with cousins you havent seen for a year and a half!<< funny remembering this...steve & michele & i had met before & were standing in the lobby where we had planned to meet stephen & wally for the first time ...hundreds of others were there milling about & it was then that steve & i realized that neither of us knew what stephen & wally looked like & vice versa! but somehow we all found each other... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 04:23:51 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #65 I gotta agree with you about Norah Jones, who is, I believe, the estranged daughter of Ravi Shankar! It's nice, but doesn't blow me away to the degree it has impressed the Grammy voters. I don't think Rickie Lee was a contender with no new output last year, if I'm not mistaken. But Patty Griffin's 1,000 Kisses was totally overlooked. She is a rarity, these days-incredible tunesmith and gorgeous voice! Was Beck's Sea Changes ineligible? Aimee Mann's Lost In Space? Seems the Grammys are on another downward spiral. They got good around the time of Turbulent Indigo--seems they were in the mood to honor some real talented and unrecognized folks around that time. Avril Lavine? No comment. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:43:39 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: State of the list Les Irvin wrote: > > > Les... a humorless, cliquish, total wackjob. don't be so hard on yourself......we all have faults..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:52:27 +0000 From: "robin mortlock" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 Hi I am new to all this and i have managed to delete the instructions about contributing to the list. I hope this gets somewhere. "Dawntreader" and "Hejira" are the highlights of Travelogue for me - "Dawntreader" being a new song entirely as i dont own the first album, so what a treat. I'll keep this brief as i dont know where its going! Robin 0 Ireland >From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) >Reply-To: joni@smoe.org >To: joni-digest@smoe.org >Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 03:00:08 -0500 (EST) > >JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 144 > > > >Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com >========== > >TOPICS and authors in this Digest: >-------- > Re: State of the list [Les Irvin ] > what brought me to the jmdl ["ron" ] > What blew me like a leaf this way? [Little Bird > Re: what brought you to bret easton ellis? njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] > More Grammys (some JC) ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" ] > Re: what brought me to the jmdl [frasere@intergate.ca] > woodstock ["Kate Bennett" ] > Re: Woodstock ["Mark or Travis" ] > bruuuuuce NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] > what brought you to joniland? ["Kate Bennett" ] > grammys njc ["Kate Bennett" ] > Re: Woodstock [frasere@intergate.ca] > Re: the state of this list [frasere@intergate.ca] > Today in History: February 25 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > Today's Library Links: February 25 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] > Re: The State of the List - Instant messaging info - No Joni content ["M] > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:21:30 -0700 >From: Les Irvin >Subject: Re: State of the list > >At 2/24/2003 04:43 PM, Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > >That said, some thoughts on the list: 1) I was totally surprised to hear Les > >say that he didn't care for the political discussions because I thought it > >was Les that had stated that the people who did not want the political posts > >had spewed venom or made venomous renarks. > >Let me clarify: > >1) I said "I don't particularly care for the political threads which seem >to be dominating in the last few months", in other words "I have chosen not >to read the Iraq threads". I have enjoyed and read many political threads >throughout the years. > >2) The venom comment was in regards to certain isolated responses from the >OnlyJoni list when the NJC tag was inadvertently left off a post - it had >nothing to do with political content. > >Les... a humorless, cliquish, total wackjob. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:43:46 +0200 >From: "ron" >Subject: what brought me to the jmdl > >hi > > >i wound up here 'cause someone accused me of not be nice... > >i somehow wound up running the michelle shocked list after the previous list >owner bailed (too long & messy to repeat the story). > >some guy pitched up as a new member, introduced himself for a while. then he >unsubbed & said that it was cause he hadnt been made to feel welcome. not >like on the joni list. i seem to remember but am not too sure that it was >patrick. > >his statement intrigued me. i had never thought of a list as being a >community. the michelle list was plagued with squabbles & arguments, but i >still loved it. also, i adored joni's music. so i came whizzing on over >here. burnt my fingers on one or two listers. got welcomed by a couple >others. got sent a virtual hug by ashara & stuck around. > >yeah - sometimes it did seem a bit strange. a bit touchy feely. a bit too >taking ourselves seriously. nothing wrong with that tho. once you get used >to it you start to realise its just a bunch of people being friendly. caring >for each other. and thats a good place to be.... > >personally ive never met a single one of the listers in person. but i really >do feel as if i know you. and i definitely do care about most of you. all in >all its a really great place. > >its also a good place to find out about joni :-) > > >ron >ps - whatever happened to the "beside herself" statue???? > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:40:25 -0800 (PST) >From: Little Bird >Subject: What blew me like a leaf this way? > >It was Jim Johanson who urged me to join since he and >I discussed Joni via email a lot. He said, "There's >this great little community you should visit..." > >Reaching for words and drawing blanks, > >- -Andrew >Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:42:03 EST >From: Murphycopy@aol.com >Subject: Re: what brought you to bret easton ellis? njc > >Vince writes: > ><< Anyone ever wants to have a discission on Bret Easton Ellis books, I am >very open - >> > >Bret Easton Ellis = a very talented writer with characters I just can't care >about, which makes for a strange reading experience. (And I'm not just >talking about "American Psycho" here.) > >- --Bob > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:45:57 -0500 >From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" >Subject: More Grammys (some JC) > >Today's word of the day is "compression." > >These albums don't have much compression: "Travelogue", "Both Sides Now", >"For the Roses", "Mingus" and Tori Amos' "Boys For Pele". > >"Court and Spark" has lots of compression. Remember when I said that in >complex passages, "Court and Spark" gets congested and gritty? > >Imagine that you put "Court and Spark" on at very low volume. You can still >hear almost everything because what would normally be a quiet passage was >squeezed, or compressed, into an average loudness. What would ordinarily >have been loud was also "squeezed" (compressed) into average loudness. It >sounds a little like AM radio- gritty and compressed. (A little bit.) > >Leaving the imaginary volume very low, now put on the "Both Sides Now" cd. >The quiet passages can't be heard at all. That's why lots of people say >that "Both Sides Now" should be played loudly; it is not compressed. > >Lama > > >Bruce asked, > >>> >Jay Newland says he wanted the album "to sound like the ones I grew >up with, like an old Joni Mitchell album -- not >compressed to death." > >What does he mean by 'compressed'? > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:47:27 -0800 >From: frasere@intergate.ca >Subject: Re: what brought me to the jmdl > >Quoting ron : > > > > its also a good place to find out about joni :-) > > > > > > ron > > ps - whatever happened to the "beside herself" statue???? > > >Yeah, Sarah, how bout an update?? > >Best, >Stephen in Vancouver > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:00:57 -0800 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Subject: woodstock > > >She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into butterflies, but dreams >aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get ourselves back to the garden; >she doesn't say we're already there< > >i was at woodstock (the one & only)& there were many helicopters flying >overhead...at one point, after the rains, one that looked like it was from >the military dropped flowers all over the crowd...an amazing sight to behold >& so i always see this image when that line about bombers turning into >butterflies is sung because metaphorically that is what really happened... > >******************************************** >Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com >Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs >Over the Moon- >"bringing the melancholy world of twilight >to life almost like magic" All Music Guide >******************************************** >"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful >committed citizens can change the world, >indeed it is the only thing that ever has." >Margaret Mead > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:08:55 - -0800 >From: "Mark or Travis" >Subject: Re: Woodstock > > > At 06:19 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, Deb Messling wrote about "Woodstock:" > >> So many writers trot out the "voice of her generation" cliche and > >> cite Woodstock as some sort of hippie anthem > > > > To me, the song always was and always will be a hippie anthem. :-) > > If some want to label it "the voice of a generation" I think it's a > > compliment to > > the songwriter for capturing the emotion of an entire generation. > > > > > >> She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into butterflies, but >dreams > >> aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get ourselves back to the > >> garden; > >> she doesn't say we're already there. > > > > Isn't that the point? The reality in 1969 was bombers strafing > > southeast Asia, the dream was and still is to take this flying > > machine of destruction and turn it into something more peaceful and > > beautiful, like a butterfly. She's *hoping* society will find the > > garden, or some semblance of a garden. Few would have argued then > > that we were "already there" in the garden...the > > *dream* was for everyone to get there...and that is why the song is > > an anthem. > >I agree that the song is an anthem both in Joni's original version and >in the Travelogue version. > >The Ladies of the Canyon version makes me think of a pagan priestess >singing an invocation, the beginning of some sacred ritual. It is >sung with reverence and a certain amount of awe. The voice soars into >the stratosphere, reaching toward the heavens. It recalls a recent >event, a gathering of the tribes. But in spite of the fact that it >recalls a communal event, to me it has the sound of a single soul >expressing the exaltation and hope brought on by that event, not the >'voice of a generation.' > >On Travelogue she doesn't have that instrument that can reach those >heights anymore. So she takes a different route and gives the song a >weight and profundity that it couldn't have had in the original. More >than 30 years have passed since the song and the event that inspired >it. Altamont, Kent State, Watergate, the Gulf War, Chernobyl, >Exxon-Valdez, the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the fall of the >Berlin Wall, 9-11 - all of these things and more have come to pass in >the intervening years and have perhaps changed the way we view what >was for many, the defining moment of a generation. Woodstock, the >event is now history and the stuff of legend. Joni's latest >incarnation of the song, Woodstock achieves anthemic status in a >different way. It is now hindsight, nostalgic and colored with the >tint of myth. It has become a slow and stately march, more about the >half a million than the solitary child of God who finally, but only >for a fleeting few days, found that place of song, celebration and >naive innocence. > >Annie Ross once said that Lady in Satin was her favorite Billie >Holiday record "because there's a whole life in that voice." I think >the same can be said for Joni's singing on Travelogue. Billie died >when she was in her 40s. Although it could be argued that she had >more life experience in that time than a lot of people have in 80 >years, I don't think that lessens the fact that Joni has lived nearly >60 years and that there is perhaps even more of a life in Joni's >voice. The voice gives new insight into Woodstock, a perhaps sadder, >but wiser recollection of the event. This latest version is different >from the original but no less anthemic. > >The more I listen to Travelogue, the more I hear in the voice that has >a whole life in it. Some of the arrangements that didn't seem to work >for me at first make more & more sense to me the more I listen. >Although some of them are truly stunning and really do enhance the >songs, I think some of them merely serve the purpose of providing an >interesting but unobtrusive backdrop to that voice. And that voice >with the whole life in it has new insights to bring to these songs, >even though it was in better shape when it sang them the first time. > >Mark in Seattle > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:11:05 -0800 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Subject: bruuuuuce NJC > > >>Best Male Rock Performance - The Rising >Best Rock Song - The Rising >Best Rock Album - The Rising<< > >thanks rosie...3 big hoorays for bruce!!!!!, loved his little chin thing >too! > >******************************************** >Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com >Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs >Over the Moon- >"bringing the melancholy world of twilight >to life almost like magic" All Music Guide >******************************************** >"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful >committed citizens can change the world, >indeed it is the only thing that ever has." >Margaret Mead > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:11:06 - -0800 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Subject: what brought you to joniland? > >vince > and James, I love you guy, you are the greatest, you are so >wonderful, I >can't express how much I love you and love your posts! > > >jim > And I, you, Vince. < > >ahhhh its a beautiful thing...what the world needs now is love sweet >love...its the only thing there is much too little of... > >******************************************** >Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com >Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs >Over the Moon- >"bringing the melancholy world of twilight >to life almost like magic" All Music Guide >******************************************** >"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful >committed citizens can change the world, >indeed it is the only thing that ever has." >Margaret Mead > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:30:11 -0800 >From: "Kate Bennett" >Subject: grammys njc > > >>What about Shawn Colvin, Lucinda Williams, Jess Klein, Carrie >Newcomer, Kasey Chambers, Lucy Kaplansky, Patty Griffin, Rickie Lee Jones? >Jeez anyone with an edge!<< > >i hear you! patty griffin (my favorite songwriter these days) was nominated >but did not win...i think nickle creek took her category...why can't >everyone hear her brillance?!?!?! call me cynical but i am pretty sure that >performing or being nominated for the grammy's has a lot to do with the >favors provided by the artist's record company... > >******************************************** >Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com >Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs >Over the Moon- >"bringing the melancholy world of twilight >to life almost like magic" All Music Guide >******************************************** >"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful >committed citizens can change the world, >indeed it is the only thing that ever has." >Margaret Mead > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:49:35 - -0800 >From: frasere@intergate.ca >Subject: Re: Woodstock > >Quoting Mark or Travis : > > > On Travelogue she doesn't have that instrument that can reach those > > heights anymore. So she takes a different route and gives the song a > > weight and profundity that it couldn't have had in the original. More > > than 30 years have passed since the song and the event that inspired > > it. Altamont, Kent State, Watergate, the Gulf War, Chernobyl, > > Exxon-Valdez, the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the fall of the > > Berlin Wall, 9-11 - all of these things and more have come to pass in > > the intervening years and have perhaps changed the way we view what > > was for many, the defining moment of a generation. Woodstock, the > > event is now history and the stuff of legend. Joni's latest > > incarnation of the song, Woodstock achieves anthemic status in a > > different way. It is now hindsight, nostalgic and colored with the > > tint of myth. It has become a slow and stately march, more about the > > half a million than the solitary child of God who finally, but only > > for a fleeting few days, found that place of song, celebration and > > naive innocence. > > >Mark, > >Welcome home! It's this kind of post that I have been missing of late. Thank >you! >Glad you are back, and hi to Travis. > >Best >Stephen in Vancouver > >NP: Patti Witten- Sycamore Tryst > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:03:35 - -0800 >From: frasere@intergate.ca >Subject: Re: the state of this list > >I have been a member for close to three years. As most, I discovered the list >by searching the net for anything Joni. I joined and lurked for months before >making my first post. > >Two people welcomed me to the list- Bob Muller and Ashara. I thought that was >pretty special. It didnt take me long to clue into the fact that they both >did that with everyone! > >It takes a bit of work to get comfortable here. Of course there is a >familiarity amongst those that have been here for a longer period. I have >never felt unwelcome- the exact opposite, truth be told. > >Who knew there were Joni boots of concerts and unreleased material? Wow! I >remember the day I received my first non-commercial Joni CDs- thanks Bob! I >was blown away. Wally Kairuz was visiting from Argentina that day. > >Which is a story in itself. > >Wally and I had communicated off list after his request for North American food >recipes, I believe. We established a cyber friendship. Next thing I know, >this guy from Buenos Aires takes me up on my offer to come and visit, and does >so, for two weeks. ACK! My friends thought I was crazy- having someone come >to my home whom I had never met. What if he is an axe murderer? someone >asked. Well, I said, call in the morning and if I dont answer the phone, I >guess he is! > >Wally and I are brothers now. > >And during his stay, Steve and Michelle Dulson, and Kate Bennett were in town >for the Folk Alliance. We all met for the first time and it was like visiting >with cousins you havent seen for a year and a half! > >And that is the beauty of this list. > >It has truly been a community. Anyone who has ANY doubts should come to this >years Jonifest, and you will get it! It has been a life altering experience >for me and I have made many, many lifelong friends as a result. How many in >this world can say that? > >WOW, Kakki and I had lunch with Joni a year and a half ago! Would that have >EVER been if not for the connection this list affords? > >I am thrilled to say that I have like-minded friends from all over the world as >a result. Hey, Ive been married and divorced on this list ;-) gained a few >brothers and sisters, and am in love again. > >I agree that lately we seem to have lost that magical sense of community. Far >too many who are integral to this list have become Joni only. I too, am on >the brink of doing the same. Personal attacks, overposting, the war content >overload! What really gets me is how some feel that every post requires a >response, and far too many of those are of the nature that should be sent >personally, not to the whole list. B---- will say it is sunny out, G---- will >answer it isnt. Does the list really care? Take it off the list. To receive >100 posts a day and so many of them be of this content is overwhelming. > >I dont suggest that the list should be moderated. However, I firmly believe >we need to be a bit more thoughtful and respectful of each other, and our >differences. Appreciate what we have, love our brothers and sisters and get >back to the garden, as our muse has said. > >And as that other muse, the blue guy said, stifle the conversations about >religion, sex and politics. > >With love and respect, >Stephen in Vancouver > >Hoping to stay an NJC subscriber! > >NP: Patti Witten Sycamore Tryst- loving it Patti and if not for this list >would never have discovered you! > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 02:05:53 -0500 >From: ljirvin@jmdl.com >Subject: Today in History: February 25 > >1972: Joni performed in Massey Hall in Toronto - Jackson Browne is the opening act. >More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=432 >- ---- >For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, >consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: >http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 02:05:53 -0500 >From: ljirvin@jmdl.com >Subject: Today's Library Links: February 25 > >On February 25 the following items were published: > > >1972: "Concert Is Given By Joni Mitchell" - New York Times > (Review - Concert) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=814 > > >2000: "Joni Mitchell's new look at 'Both Sides Now'" - Christian Science Monitor > (Review - Album) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=703 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:06:55 +0100 >From: "Moni Kellermann" >Subject: Re: The State of the List - Instant messaging info - No Joni content > >- ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lori Fye" > > > IMICI offers free software that allows you to IM with people who use > > AIM, Yahoo, MSN, and ICQ - at the SAME time. I use IMICI and I love > > it. Visit http://users.imici.com/signup.php, and choose > > the "Demonstration" license. > > >Seems to be similar to http://www.trillian.cc/ which I have tried out. (There >is a free version you can download). > >The catch with both programs is that it still isn't possible to send messages >between the different IM services! >You may have ONE program that functions as an IM client for all those services >but you still only can send messages to and from within one service. It is not >possible to send an IM from AIM/AOL to Yahoo or from MSN to AOL or such. > >moni > >------------------------------ > >End of JMDL Digest V2003 #144 >***************************** > >------- >Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org >Unsubscribe by clicking here: >mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe >------- >Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:43:17 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: us and more Ron wrote: yeah - sometimes it did seem a bit strange. a bit touchy feely. a bit too taking ourselves seriously. Well, Ron, we sound like someone. Oh let me see. Her initials are JM... Lama, thanks for the clear explanation of compression. For someone who's been in a recording studio, you'd think I'd understand it better than I do. This has led me to ponder the following. What song is Joni's best vocal? I may have to consider that I bit more. Probably something in the C&S through Hejira timeframe. I think her voice was at its peak about then. So, I'm not thinking best song. I'm thinking best "playing" of her instrument. And, conversely, worst sung song. Interested to know what others think. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:47:17 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: us and more From: > This has led me to ponder the following. What song is Joni's best vocal? > My vote would go to "Sweet Sucker Dance" from "Mingus." As a matter of fact, I need to argue for its inclusion in Walt's version of the boxed set. :-) As for "worst vocal" (not including BSN or T'log), I'd have to give it some more thought but "Roses Blue" is one vocal which gets on my nerves. Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:01:16 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: love's illusions (njc) Jim Leonard wrote: Jim Leonard wrote: My point was that much of the professed "love" between listers is/was delusional and/or insincere, and that it vanishes when the rubber hits the road. Based on my own experience, Jim, I'd have to disagree. I can attest to absolutely incredible outpourings of love that have been showered on me. When I couldn't attend the BSN concert in Boston because I was undergoing chemotherapy, the people on this list collected hundreds of dollars so that Ashara could buy one of everything (hats, mugs t-shirts, etc.) from the concert. I received bootleg versions of many of the U.S. concerts, as Joni traveled the country. I've received phone calls from all over the world. And, having met various list members at JoniFest, I can assure you that what appears here as a flicker on a screen becomes extraordinarily real in person. If you can, I'd definitely recommend attending JoniFest. It really is a life altering experience. Think all the very best of Woodstock, without the mud :-) When I sign my posts "lots of love" I couldn't be more sincere. I'm not pretending. I'm not posturing. I really mean it. And that extends to you too, Jim. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:08:47 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni highs and lows In a message dated 2/25/2003 8:47:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, jll@tampabay.rr.com writes: > My vote would go to "Sweet Sucker Dance" from "Mingus." Dammit - you STOLE my pick! At least I can say that I have gone on record as saying this several times before, so I can't be accused of jumping on the "Boston Jim bandwagon"! ;~) If you haven't heard Joni's vocals on this track, your Joni-homework song of the day (I LOVE that idea Ron!) is "Sweet Sucker Dance". Not just the purity of her voice, but the way she effortlessly jumps from blue note to blue note, the emotion she conveys with every breath... Wow, it blows me away. > > As for "worst vocal" (not including BSN or T'log), Why not include those? It makes it easy. That shrieked "Head Of a Man" on the T'log version of "Slouching" makes me want to slash my wrists. Up until that, there were some crummy SONGS, but Joni's voice was unfailing. Maybe I don't care for the lofty soprano notes in some of the early stuff, but the vocal was still doing its job. Like Mark said (in his wonderful Woodstock post), Joni re-engineered her vocal on Woodstock and virtually reinvented the song. I guess she thought the strained notes in "Slouching" would create tension, but to my ears they're just unbearable. Bob NP: Lenny Kravitz, "Sister" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:16:50 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: a strange boy Bob M (SCJoniguy) wrote: Found out I wasn't as strange as I had previously suspected. ;~) Ah, Bob, we've been meaning to tell you... ;-) New topic: Has anyone else suggested this already - Norah Jones doing a Joni cover? What would be your pick? For now, I'd like to hear Norah doing Blue Motel Room or Two Grey Rooms. Hmm, and now that I think of it, these two songs feel related to me. The feel of both songs is similar, both thematically and musically. Oh, and forget I said anything about limiting the number or size of posts - I'm way over any limit at this point :-) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:20:38 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: love's illusions (njc) anne@sandstrom.com wrote: > > I've >received phone calls from all over the world. > yes, I have spoken with Anne and she is just as her mails suggests-a right old ****! ;-) love,.sincerely, colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:37:59 -0600 From: twoshoes@sasktel.net Subject: set a spell I'm on the Joni-only list, and get it in digest form, so this hello to Lindsay will probably be late posted and repetitive, but I'll say it anyway: howdy. Come in and set a spell. When people make a post to a list for the first time (not experienced on any list), it does make a huge difference when they are welcomed. It often gives them the courage to become active participants. I've been on this list a long time, but hardly know who's who, so all this talk about cliques goes right over my head. I read for content, not for community. I'd offer to tape the Joni bio on Life and Times, but CBC comes in unclear out here (rural Saskatchewan). I'll be able to watch it, but it will appear somewhat fuzzy and mostly black and white. Life and Times as a biography type of show is pretty bland -- it focuses on the more "acceptable" aspects of its subjects' lives. There will be no coverage of Joni's court case with her maid, for instance. Mostly these shows are prettified on the side of being glorifying, kindof the top-40 baby food of biographies. And way too many commercials. Not that I don't enjoy the show. Any info is better than no info. But I would be surprised if there's any great depth. The show tends to touch on the more commonly known things about people. That said, I'll be parked in front of the tv those nights, with bells on. The show will flatter our Joan to death, and that's okay by me. It will finally educate the Canadian public about her genius, I hope, and that's a good thing. Kate du Nord http://xoetc.antville.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:41:07 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re-Woodstock When Joni sang the song at "A Day in the Garden" she introduced the song with a very moving speech " My generation was given a pocket of liberty like no other generation before", I think she pretty much felt it to be an anthem of the times, but if you listen to the CD she goes on to pretty much say it was short lived. But the song has a lasting value of explaining who we are, where we come from and where we should be heading! It certily has worked well with all my medications over the years, and to think a young unambitious girl wrote such an insightful song without even attending the main event. Being there and hearing her talk about the song is one historic event in my book. The live recording is one of the best live perfomances I've ever heard, hot stickey day, fingers sticking to the strings, and no mistakes. I love Joni and no other singer/songwriter will ever take me where she has everyday for 35 years, and I never tire of anything she does. Meeting her was a great honor, the biggest of my life, and she was so kind though-out the entire weekend at the Mendal opening. She was very engaging, always looked you straight in the eyes and was full of questions back at me. She grabbed me and gave me a kiss on the cheek, I didn't grab her. She will always be "Number One' for me. Peace to all! Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:56:19 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #143 - Civility and the lack thereof NJC From: > > That is the stupidest, most idiotic thing I have ever read in my life. The only taste you have is in your mouth. How fucking full of shit can one person's uninformed opinion be? I'd call your opinion utter foolishness but that would be an insult to fools everywhere. > > > Ahhemmmm...I'm not sure who wrote the above comment, but I have to say -- for Pete's sake dude, chill out. Can we participate in this forum with some degree of civility, even when (or especially when) we disagree? Such venom and only over who shudda won the best whatever award. Grow up already. > That was Vince's witty parody of some of the sniping the list has seen of late, Bryan - written about my Grammy comment, but in the context of the larger conversation we were engaged in last evening about "the state of the list." Not to worry. You had to be there. :-) Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:50:22 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: love's illusions (njc) From: > Based on my own experience, Jim, I'd have to disagree. I can attest to absolutely incredible outpourings of love that have been showered on me. > And that has been wonderful, Anne. As a Patient Care Technician in Oncology here at the largest hospital in the Tampa Bay area, I'm well aware of just how important such support can when battling the disease. We've all (me included) taken an active interest in your situation and pray for your complete return to the very best of health. It appears (and I pray) that you are well on your way. In all fairness to my point of last evening, however, I would exclude your situation as "a special case." What I was referring to - and, granted, I STILL haven't voiced this impression of mine in a way which satisfies me - when I said that the professed love between listers "vanishes when the rubber hits the road" stems from the fact that some of the same individuals who are lovey-dovey with one another at times can then engage in unpleasantries when the going gets tough. My impression is that - unlike other lists I'm on which are less personal in tone - people here get wrapped up in their JMDL personas (which is due to the tenor of the list - it invites that), and they like to be viewed as "sensitive," "caring," "the most knowledgeable" on certain topics - whatever. Then, things go to hell rather quickly when those personas are questioned or threatened. I maintain that if you have a message intended for a specific person, these messages have greater value to the person and are more sincere when they are communicated privately. There is no question, then, that the sentiment is real, and not done for effect. For instance, Colin had to put one of his dogs down recently, and I had no great issue with him sharing that unfortunate development with the list. But, then, why couldn't people wishing to grieve with him do so privately? That's the most recent example of what it is I'm talking about. Should a JMDL digest be filled with posts commiserating with Colin? (No offense, Colin. I'm just using this example.) At that point the list devolves into more of a support group (for a select few, in terms of the 800 subscribers) or a social club, and less a forum for an exchange of views on Joni, music in general, and other topics of wide-ranging cultural interest to JMDL subscribers. I don't mean to come off as heartless, or as "a heel." In truth, I'm a real good guy I reckon. People who know me like me a lot - I'm blessed with a lot of friendships I've maintained from different points and places in my life - and I don't know many people who are more compassionate and empathetic and willing to go out of their way for others than I am "in real life." I guess it's just that that's not what I come to the JMDL for, or what I feel the list should be about. Maybe there could be a separate "Joni Fest" list or something where the "community" thing is the thing ... where the most active participants of the 800 JMDL subscribers, who've forged a bond with one another, and who choose to subscribe and participate, can keep each other abreast of happenings in their daily lives and receive support and friendship "on list" from one another, for all to see. That's it from me on this topic, folks. I already feel like a shit. I've just been trying to be honest and upfront about the different (from other music lists) nature of the JMDL, and I still haven't expressed myself well. I'm not going anywhere, though. My new schedule of 12-1/2 hour days means I get 4 days off per week. So, I'll disappear on the days I work, but will now have more of an opportunity to be a more active participant on the JMDL again, which is something I look forward to. Best to all, and no offense intended to any individual, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:15:48 +0000 From: "Tamsin Lucas" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 I'm quite a fan of The Rules of Attraction most of all. All that emptiness and angst and mindless dismissal of other people... - sometimes being at university did feel like that - as if everyone was competing to be the most "angsty" - I think that's what I particularly liked about TRoA. Also I love Donna Tartt's The Secret History and the same characters pop up in the background of both books which is cool. I believe Tartt and Eliis went to the same college. >Bret Easton Ellis = a very talented writer with characters I just can't >care >about, which makes for a strange reading experience. (And I'm not just >talking about "American Psycho" here.) > _________________________________________________________________ Chat online in real time with MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:17:52 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 robin mortlock wrote: >Hi > >I am new to all this and i have managed to delete the instructions about >contributing to the list. I hope this gets somewhere. > >"Dawntreader" and "Hejira" are the highlights of Travelogue for me - >"Dawntreader" being a new song entirely as i dont own the first album, so >what a treat. > >I'll keep this brief as i dont know where its going! > >Robin 0 Ireland > > > It got here safe Robin. welcome to our wonderful list. When you reply to digest, rememeber to delete the digest from your reply. I am sure you will ahev fun here. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:21:45 +0000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Today's Library Links: February 25 In a message dated 2/25/2003 2:05:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, ljirvin@jmdl.com writes: > 1972: "Concert Is Given By Joni Mitchell" - New York Times > (Review - Concert) > http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=814 Les, belated congrats on passing the 1,000 mark with your article database! I don't always comment on them, but I DO check them out every day - I would hope everyone does. Anyway, I loved the prophetic comment this reviewer made about this GREAT Carnegie Hall show: "I suspect that in her own way Joni Mitchell may be one of the most genuinely gifted composers North America has yet developed. That she chooses to express her art in small forms and personal sentiments in no way reduces either its impact of its importance." Look! He didn't even specify a gender! :~) And keep in mind, this was 1972... Bob NP: Lenny Kravitz, "Empty Hands" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:22:50 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: State of the List Only a few thoughts here although I've been thinking about this a lot. Coming up with ideas on how to settle the list is turning out to be a lot like trying to figure out how to juggle the seating for my wedding: who can sit next to the other, which aunt tends to burp more than most and needs a seat by the window; there's just a lot to consider. A couple of issues stick out for me and they are: 1. Intimidation of potential posters/rudeness/abuse: I tend to be hard lined on this one in that I think that a lot of intimidation is self created and you need to feel confident in your post and let the chips fall where they may if you get strong and sharply worded rebuttals. I think that there are such a wide variety of communication styles. We are all a complex make up of passive/agressive personalities or straightforward ones or the types that get easily hurt by strong statements or the type that wouldn't be insulted if the words were in bold faced, super-sized font. I read one member say that they've spent a lot of energy NOT responding to posts. And maybe that's what we need to do. Write your post but hold onto it for a day. Does it graciously advance a view point or does it advance the wildfire? Of course, either of those two perspectives is in the eye of the beholder and therein lies another problem. 2. List Monitoring: I hate to use that old chestnut, "I've been on this list a long time," but here it goes: I've been on this list since just about the very beginning and this is a common cycle. Not just post 9/11, but there have been many threads that have often shut down the list for days. No one posted anything. Nothing at all. And then you would see a few tentative souls venture forth with a "JC" post and it would start up nicely all over again. And from that history, I will say that the list HAS improved. I can remember posts that were a much nastier than what I'm seeing now. Much nastier. Plus, it took people longer to say: "hey, this is not promoting harmony, knock it off." So while I'm loathe to agree with only xx number of posts a day and only xx number of words at that, I think that it might be better if Les chose a "hey youse guys, straighten up!" post when appropriate. As Bob M. said, when Les posts, people listen. 3. Misc. stuff: People ought not forget that this is the Internet. The JMDL is not a gated community although there are some components of that. You enter at your own risk and one of those risks is that you get stupid off list posts. Sometimes nasty off list posts. I think that's just par for the course when you deal with a bunch of strangers. The way the cookie crumbles and all that. Either delete it or find some common ground. (I think that that was a suggestion from Vince a few weeks ago). 4. Joni Content: She's a finite subject. T'log while a new album is old stuff. There's no upcoming tour. So things are going to turn "general" and to keep the Joni spirit alive, perhaps we should try to actively post a JC thread, not get discouraged when it dies quickly and then try again. Lori had the car thing and that was fun. We had parodies about 5 years ago and that was hilarious. Maybe it's time to try that again. 5. My laundry: It's tapping me on the shoulder and begging for attention. Thanks Les for a great list. (although I wouldn't want to have to say that 10 times fast). MG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:24:55 -0000 From: ReckersL@ebrd.com Subject: RE: The State of the List Bob (Murphy) dear, I also agree (in a non-icky, non-gushy way) sooo much with all you write - except for that same one point that you originally disagreed on, of course! :-) Really, your example about how the list could be taken over by radical animal rights activists, that is exactly what I felt too - but I seem to come to one slightly different conclusion, that is that recently I have begun to doubt whether self control alone will sort it all out. How can we trust "self control" so confidently, if in fact we have already lost so many people, including yourself, to "JC only"? Especially as they admit it is only the nature of certain political arguments that's making them do so? Is that the natural ebb and flow that we want to accept? And to take your example, how would you get PETA members to apply self control? I would be so happy if this JMDL spirit and self control sorted everything out again, and people now say "look, it's getting better already" - but how long before we have another crisis like this one? And what about the people we've lost already? The only way I could even begin to believe it, is if people like you and Bob Mueller and many many others (Mags, Mark, Ken, etc etc) came back to NJC! (What I mean is, it's fine for people to be on JC only if that's what they've always wanted: just Joni info. But I'm concerned about all the other people who wanted broader discussions and are now disappearing...) I think if we end up with a separate PC list, that would be a worse outcome. What will be considered Political? And I would not want to miss everything political, just the excesses. If this was just my feeling, I'd be happy if it were ignored, but from carefully reading all the replies (including yours), it is clear that that is not the case. One more thing, about that "we can just delete what we don't want to read" argument. I think it only works to a point. For some reason, it feels different, deleting (or in my case scrolling past) a cricket message from Azeem, which leaves me with a good feeling because I like to see him being enthousiastic about it, even if I don't know what a cricket ball looks like, and don't want to know! Same with details about guitars or tunings that I know nothing about - they're just great! But with politics, we cannot claim ignorance so it sucks us in, I don't feel so good having to delete those posts when there's too many of them, or when they turn unpleasant. And worst of the worst, to see people I like and respect attack other people I like and respect, is just the pits! And - OK, one MORE thing! - I agree that it just doesn't make sense for newcomers to resent the closeness that exists between "older" members. When I carefully joined (to use Sarah's image of this being a virtual pub) I just sat there quietly and observed for a while. I got a kick out of the friendship that I saw between others. I never resented not getting it all immediately myself, I felt I had to earn it - I still feel I have to earn it, and that feels just fine! In fact nobody owes me or any newcomer anything, it is a privilege to be taken into any group, and I am still amazed how generous and welcoming this group really is. I'll stop now. Les started this discussion without an NJC tag so I've kept it that way, but I do try to respect the JC onlies and apologise if they resent all these posts. Hopefully it won't be long! Lieve. -----Original Message----- From: Murphycopy@aol.com [SMTP:Murphycopy@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 9:51 PM To: ReckersL@ebrd.com; joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: The State of the List (snip) POLITICS I prefer not to post political stuff here, but I don't mind that others do . . . up to a point. The political content has grown so much and has gotten so personal that, like Lieve, I agree that reading the list doesn't feel good anymore. (snip) One can argue that these are dire times, and that important issues such as Iraq need to be discussed here and now. But you know what? Any time is always "dire times" for somebody. There are people here who are, for example, vegetarians and post about that subject from time to time, which is fine, of course. But what would we do if radical PETA members joined the list and were relentlessly pushing their views here -- on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List! -- day in and day out? And what if they were constantly engaged in debate by the list's meat-eaters? Well, then we'd have the exact same situation we have now, but with a different topic. My suggestion? Self-control. Post political content moderately. If this doesn't work for a predetermined period of time -- say three months - -- then I'd hope that Les might think of adding the PC tag so that people who don't want to read political content can be spared having to wade though all the poop that gets posted. I would join that list today if it became available. Lieve also said: << I am thinking of a panel made up of, say, Les, Ashara and the 2 Bobs (M). >> Thanks, Lieve, for that vote of confidence in my policing abilities! I have often been told I look like a cop! ;-) I have to tell you though, I HATE THIS IDEA! And that's not just because Les (list owner), Ashara (JMDL/JoniMitchell.com fundraiser and NE Jonifest planner), Bob Muller (covers king) and I (Joni in Fiction) all have other duties here. I seriously doubt that anyone on the list wants to become Director of Joniland Security! So . . . INCLUDE ME OUT! CLIQUES/IN-HUMOR/ALLEGED INNER CIRCLE John S wrote: << I know that there are groups within the list who are close buddies - I love that, I don't feel left out because I'm not one of them. >> Amen. If I can't post about Jimmy's next water ballet or Ashara's tofu habit or Kakki's martinis or Bree's chocolate gifts, then I don't want to be here. I was once a newbie and I couldn't understand half of what I read here . . . what the hell Bob Muller's covers were all about, or when certain people were serious or joking . . . but I stayed around. That's part of the discovery and adventure of trying something new. If I moved to some small town in Finland tomorrow I wouldn't expect to be able to speak the language right away, or to know the local celebrities, politicians and other characters that make up my little village! But I would get myself a little phrase book, get the papers, listen to my new neighbors and then PARTICIPATE in my new life. (snip) As always, THANK YOU, LES, for putting up with us. Sometimes I really do feel bad for you because you generously let us all swim in your wonderful pool even though so many of us have been known to pee in it! ______________________________________________________________ This message may contain privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please keep it confidential and return it to the sender. Although we have taken steps to minimise the risk of transmitting software viruses, the EBRD accepts no liability for any loss or damage caused by computer viruses and would advise you to carry out your own virus checks. The contents of this e-mail do not necessarily represent the views of the EBRD. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #145 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)