From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #144 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Tuesday, February 25 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 144 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: State of the list [Les Irvin ] what brought me to the jmdl ["ron" ] What blew me like a leaf this way? [Little Bird ] Re: what brought me to the jmdl [frasere@intergate.ca] woodstock ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Woodstock ["Mark or Travis" ] bruuuuuce NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] what brought you to joniland? ["Kate Bennett" ] grammys njc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Woodstock [frasere@intergate.ca] Re: the state of this list [frasere@intergate.ca] Today in History: February 25 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Today's Library Links: February 25 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: The State of the List - Instant messaging info - No Joni content ["M] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:21:30 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: State of the list At 2/24/2003 04:43 PM, Aerchak@aol.com wrote: >That said, some thoughts on the list: 1) I was totally surprised to hear Les >say that he didn't care for the political discussions because I thought it >was Les that had stated that the people who did not want the political posts >had spewed venom or made venomous renarks. Let me clarify: 1) I said "I don't particularly care for the political threads which seem to be dominating in the last few months", in other words "I have chosen not to read the Iraq threads". I have enjoyed and read many political threads throughout the years. 2) The venom comment was in regards to certain isolated responses from the OnlyJoni list when the NJC tag was inadvertently left off a post - it had nothing to do with political content. Les... a humorless, cliquish, total wackjob. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 00:43:46 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: what brought me to the jmdl hi i wound up here 'cause someone accused me of not be nice... i somehow wound up running the michelle shocked list after the previous list owner bailed (too long & messy to repeat the story). some guy pitched up as a new member, introduced himself for a while. then he unsubbed & said that it was cause he hadnt been made to feel welcome. not like on the joni list. i seem to remember but am not too sure that it was patrick. his statement intrigued me. i had never thought of a list as being a community. the michelle list was plagued with squabbles & arguments, but i still loved it. also, i adored joni's music. so i came whizzing on over here. burnt my fingers on one or two listers. got welcomed by a couple others. got sent a virtual hug by ashara & stuck around. yeah - sometimes it did seem a bit strange. a bit touchy feely. a bit too taking ourselves seriously. nothing wrong with that tho. once you get used to it you start to realise its just a bunch of people being friendly. caring for each other. and thats a good place to be.... personally ive never met a single one of the listers in person. but i really do feel as if i know you. and i definitely do care about most of you. all in all its a really great place. its also a good place to find out about joni :-) ron ps - whatever happened to the "beside herself" statue???? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:40:25 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: What blew me like a leaf this way? It was Jim Johanson who urged me to join since he and I discussed Joni via email a lot. He said, "There's this great little community you should visit..." Reaching for words and drawing blanks, - -Andrew Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:42:03 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: what brought you to bret easton ellis? njc Vince writes: << Anyone ever wants to have a discission on Bret Easton Ellis books, I am very open - >> Bret Easton Ellis = a very talented writer with characters I just can't care about, which makes for a strange reading experience. (And I'm not just talking about "American Psycho" here.) - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:45:57 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lama\)" Subject: More Grammys (some JC) Today's word of the day is "compression." These albums don't have much compression: "Travelogue", "Both Sides Now", "For the Roses", "Mingus" and Tori Amos' "Boys For Pele". "Court and Spark" has lots of compression. Remember when I said that in complex passages, "Court and Spark" gets congested and gritty? Imagine that you put "Court and Spark" on at very low volume. You can still hear almost everything because what would normally be a quiet passage was squeezed, or compressed, into an average loudness. What would ordinarily have been loud was also "squeezed" (compressed) into average loudness. It sounds a little like AM radio- gritty and compressed. (A little bit.) Leaving the imaginary volume very low, now put on the "Both Sides Now" cd. The quiet passages can't be heard at all. That's why lots of people say that "Both Sides Now" should be played loudly; it is not compressed. Lama Bruce asked, >>> Jay Newland says he wanted the album "to sound like the ones I grew up with, like an old Joni Mitchell album -- not compressed to death." What does he mean by 'compressed'? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:47:27 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: what brought me to the jmdl Quoting ron : > its also a good place to find out about joni :-) > > > ron > ps - whatever happened to the "beside herself" statue???? Yeah, Sarah, how bout an update?? Best, Stephen in Vancouver ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:00:57 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: woodstock >She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into butterflies, but dreams aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get ourselves back to the garden; she doesn't say we're already there< i was at woodstock (the one & only)& there were many helicopters flying overhead...at one point, after the rains, one that looked like it was from the military dropped flowers all over the crowd...an amazing sight to behold & so i always see this image when that line about bombers turning into butterflies is sung because metaphorically that is what really happened... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:08:55 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Woodstock > At 06:19 PM 2/24/2003 -0500, Deb Messling wrote about "Woodstock:" >> So many writers trot out the "voice of her generation" cliche and >> cite Woodstock as some sort of hippie anthem > > To me, the song always was and always will be a hippie anthem. :-) > If some want to label it "the voice of a generation" I think it's a > compliment to > the songwriter for capturing the emotion of an entire generation. > > >> She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into butterflies, but dreams >> aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get ourselves back to the >> garden; >> she doesn't say we're already there. > > Isn't that the point? The reality in 1969 was bombers strafing > southeast Asia, the dream was and still is to take this flying > machine of destruction and turn it into something more peaceful and > beautiful, like a butterfly. She's *hoping* society will find the > garden, or some semblance of a garden. Few would have argued then > that we were "already there" in the garden...the > *dream* was for everyone to get there...and that is why the song is > an anthem. I agree that the song is an anthem both in Joni's original version and in the Travelogue version. The Ladies of the Canyon version makes me think of a pagan priestess singing an invocation, the beginning of some sacred ritual. It is sung with reverence and a certain amount of awe. The voice soars into the stratosphere, reaching toward the heavens. It recalls a recent event, a gathering of the tribes. But in spite of the fact that it recalls a communal event, to me it has the sound of a single soul expressing the exaltation and hope brought on by that event, not the 'voice of a generation.' On Travelogue she doesn't have that instrument that can reach those heights anymore. So she takes a different route and gives the song a weight and profundity that it couldn't have had in the original. More than 30 years have passed since the song and the event that inspired it. Altamont, Kent State, Watergate, the Gulf War, Chernobyl, Exxon-Valdez, the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the fall of the Berlin Wall, 9-11 - all of these things and more have come to pass in the intervening years and have perhaps changed the way we view what was for many, the defining moment of a generation. Woodstock, the event is now history and the stuff of legend. Joni's latest incarnation of the song, Woodstock achieves anthemic status in a different way. It is now hindsight, nostalgic and colored with the tint of myth. It has become a slow and stately march, more about the half a million than the solitary child of God who finally, but only for a fleeting few days, found that place of song, celebration and naive innocence. Annie Ross once said that Lady in Satin was her favorite Billie Holiday record "because there's a whole life in that voice." I think the same can be said for Joni's singing on Travelogue. Billie died when she was in her 40s. Although it could be argued that she had more life experience in that time than a lot of people have in 80 years, I don't think that lessens the fact that Joni has lived nearly 60 years and that there is perhaps even more of a life in Joni's voice. The voice gives new insight into Woodstock, a perhaps sadder, but wiser recollection of the event. This latest version is different from the original but no less anthemic. The more I listen to Travelogue, the more I hear in the voice that has a whole life in it. Some of the arrangements that didn't seem to work for me at first make more & more sense to me the more I listen. Although some of them are truly stunning and really do enhance the songs, I think some of them merely serve the purpose of providing an interesting but unobtrusive backdrop to that voice. And that voice with the whole life in it has new insights to bring to these songs, even though it was in better shape when it sang them the first time. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:11:05 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: bruuuuuce NJC >>Best Male Rock Performance - The Rising Best Rock Song - The Rising Best Rock Album - The Rising<< thanks rosie...3 big hoorays for bruce!!!!!, loved his little chin thing too! ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:11:06 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: what brought you to joniland? vince > and James, I love you guy, you are the greatest, you are so wonderful, I can't express how much I love you and love your posts! > jim > And I, you, Vince. < ahhhh its a beautiful thing...what the world needs now is love sweet love...its the only thing there is much too little of... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:30:11 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: grammys njc >>What about Shawn Colvin, Lucinda Williams, Jess Klein, Carrie Newcomer, Kasey Chambers, Lucy Kaplansky, Patty Griffin, Rickie Lee Jones? Jeez anyone with an edge!<< i hear you! patty griffin (my favorite songwriter these days) was nominated but did not win...i think nickle creek took her category...why can't everyone hear her brillance?!?!?! call me cynical but i am pretty sure that performing or being nominated for the grammy's has a lot to do with the favors provided by the artist's record company... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:49:35 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: Woodstock Quoting Mark or Travis : > On Travelogue she doesn't have that instrument that can reach those > heights anymore. So she takes a different route and gives the song a > weight and profundity that it couldn't have had in the original. More > than 30 years have passed since the song and the event that inspired > it. Altamont, Kent State, Watergate, the Gulf War, Chernobyl, > Exxon-Valdez, the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the fall of the > Berlin Wall, 9-11 - all of these things and more have come to pass in > the intervening years and have perhaps changed the way we view what > was for many, the defining moment of a generation. Woodstock, the > event is now history and the stuff of legend. Joni's latest > incarnation of the song, Woodstock achieves anthemic status in a > different way. It is now hindsight, nostalgic and colored with the > tint of myth. It has become a slow and stately march, more about the > half a million than the solitary child of God who finally, but only > for a fleeting few days, found that place of song, celebration and > naive innocence. Mark, Welcome home! It's this kind of post that I have been missing of late. Thank you! Glad you are back, and hi to Travis. Best Stephen in Vancouver NP: Patti Witten- Sycamore Tryst ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:03:35 -0800 From: frasere@intergate.ca Subject: Re: the state of this list I have been a member for close to three years. As most, I discovered the list by searching the net for anything Joni. I joined and lurked for months before making my first post. Two people welcomed me to the list- Bob Muller and Ashara. I thought that was pretty special. It didnt take me long to clue into the fact that they both did that with everyone! It takes a bit of work to get comfortable here. Of course there is a familiarity amongst those that have been here for a longer period. I have never felt unwelcome- the exact opposite, truth be told. Who knew there were Joni boots of concerts and unreleased material? Wow! I remember the day I received my first non-commercial Joni CDs- thanks Bob! I was blown away. Wally Kairuz was visiting from Argentina that day. Which is a story in itself. Wally and I had communicated off list after his request for North American food recipes, I believe. We established a cyber friendship. Next thing I know, this guy from Buenos Aires takes me up on my offer to come and visit, and does so, for two weeks. ACK! My friends thought I was crazy- having someone come to my home whom I had never met. What if he is an axe murderer? someone asked. Well, I said, call in the morning and if I dont answer the phone, I guess he is! Wally and I are brothers now. And during his stay, Steve and Michelle Dulson, and Kate Bennett were in town for the Folk Alliance. We all met for the first time and it was like visiting with cousins you havent seen for a year and a half! And that is the beauty of this list. It has truly been a community. Anyone who has ANY doubts should come to this years Jonifest, and you will get it! It has been a life altering experience for me and I have made many, many lifelong friends as a result. How many in this world can say that? WOW, Kakki and I had lunch with Joni a year and a half ago! Would that have EVER been if not for the connection this list affords? I am thrilled to say that I have like-minded friends from all over the world as a result. Hey, Ive been married and divorced on this list ;-) gained a few brothers and sisters, and am in love again. I agree that lately we seem to have lost that magical sense of community. Far too many who are integral to this list have become Joni only. I too, am on the brink of doing the same. Personal attacks, overposting, the war content overload! What really gets me is how some feel that every post requires a response, and far too many of those are of the nature that should be sent personally, not to the whole list. B---- will say it is sunny out, G---- will answer it isnt. Does the list really care? Take it off the list. To receive 100 posts a day and so many of them be of this content is overwhelming. I dont suggest that the list should be moderated. However, I firmly believe we need to be a bit more thoughtful and respectful of each other, and our differences. Appreciate what we have, love our brothers and sisters and get back to the garden, as our muse has said. And as that other muse, the blue guy said, stifle the conversations about religion, sex and politics. With love and respect, Stephen in Vancouver Hoping to stay an NJC subscriber! NP: Patti Witten Sycamore Tryst- loving it Patti and if not for this list would never have discovered you! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 02:05:53 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today in History: February 25 1972: Joni performed in Massey Hall in Toronto - Jackson Browne is the opening act. More info: http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=432 - ---- For a comprehensive reference to Joni's appearances, consult Joni Mitchell ~ A Chronology of Appearances: http://www.jonimitchell.com/appearances.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 02:05:53 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 25 On February 25 the following items were published: 1972: "Concert Is Given By Joni Mitchell" - New York Times (Review - Concert) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=814 2000: "Joni Mitchell's new look at 'Both Sides Now'" - Christian Science Monitor (Review - Album) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=703 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:06:55 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: The State of the List - Instant messaging info - No Joni content - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lori Fye" > IMICI offers free software that allows you to IM with people who use > AIM, Yahoo, MSN, and ICQ - at the SAME time. I use IMICI and I love > it. Visit http://users.imici.com/signup.php, and choose > the "Demonstration" license. Seems to be similar to http://www.trillian.cc/ which I have tried out. (There is a free version you can download). The catch with both programs is that it still isn't possible to send messages between the different IM services! You may have ONE program that functions as an IM client for all those services but you still only can send messages to and from within one service. It is not possible to send an IM from AIM/AOL to Yahoo or from MSN to AOL or such. moni ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #144 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)