From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #142 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 24 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 142 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: tenderness and respect (NJC) [Chris Marshall ] the state of the list ["ron" ] Re: The State of the List NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] state of the list - some more homework ["ron" ] Re: The State of the List - Instant messaging info - No Joni content ["Lo] RE: Them Frisbees - (bob's sweet 16 of great joni covers) ["patrick lead] re:Travelogue review [Bruce Kimerer ] Re: Guitars [Bobsart48@aol.com] Re: The State of the List NJC [vince ] Re: NJC - Grammys and JMDLers - NJC [vince ] Re: The Grammies and Joni's attitude - trace elements of JC [Bobsart48@ao] deb talan sjc [Mags N Brei ] Re: The State of the List some jc ["Kate Bennett" ] what brought you to joniland? NJC? ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: the state of the list ["Heather" ] re:Travelogue review [Deb Messling ] Re: The State of the List njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #141 [Kardinel@aol.com] Re: if it ain't broke don't fix it njc (No Joni content) [Catherine McKay] Re: State of the List [colin ] Travelogue-Piccolos! [mpredmore@att.net] Re: state of the list - some more homework - suddenly NJC [Murphycopy@aol] Re: Them Frisbees - (bob's sweet 16 of great joni covers) [SCJoniGuy@aol] Re: if it ain't broke don't fix it njc (No Joni content) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: what brought you to joniland? ["Jim Leonard" ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [vince ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: tenderness and respect [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list [Chris Marshall ] Re: what brought you to joniland? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: what brought you to joniland? - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: what brought you to joniland? NJC? [colin Subject: Re: tenderness and respect (NJC) What she said. :-D To the letter, pretty much. - --Chris Marshall (noting this is a new thread title, so my post quota starts over from zero...) chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:35:38 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: the state of the list hi my opinions on the state of the list. yes there is an inner circle. people have known each other for years & generated stable relationships. its not nasty - its just a fact of life. deal with it. :-) - i mean that in the nicest possible way - some of the folks here are like family & eavesdropping on their banter & conversations is really cosy...appreciate some of the truly great & unique characters on the list. i dont think youll find a bunch like this anywhere else. lets be realistic. some of these folks have known each other on & off list for years. its a community - not a newgroup. that requires relationship. moderating a list sucks. especially for the moderator who takes his role seriously. the list set up as a blessing becomes a lot of hard work & a curse & all the joy goes out of it. lets be realistic., exercise self control & it wont be required. dont take a personal stake in how people react to what you post. if people dont agree its not a reflection on you personally. or on them. this will enable you to post anything without being judgemental. and to receive judgement without responding in kind. this list serves as a haven. to do that people need to be able to post on any subject bugging them. but lets be simple & honest in our posting. were not here to convert anyone to anything. state your opinion. state your honest feelings. if someone gets converted - thats cool. if you get converted - thats cool too. if you get hurt. say so. honestly & simply. people here will be nice to you. actually people here will be nice to you just generally cause theyre nice people. oh yeah. homework. listen to at least one joni song a day. lets keep some truth & beauty fresh in our minds. we all could do with it. ron np - jimi hendrix - dont know the songs name - 1968 - at home in his lounge & mmmmeeeelllloooowwww ps - this subject has inspired some posts which really strike home just how great this list can be...... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:10:01 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The State of the List NJC > The subject of the "inner circle" comes up from time to time, and if there is > one, *I* haven't been asked to join. (Go ahead, Muller. Say > something mean!) Well, we actually preferred initially to be called the "Power Elite", until YOU joined, then we changed our title to "He-Men Murphy Hater Club". We changed the secret handshake at that time as well. ;~) Obviously, I'm joking...Murph's right, the only inner circle is the one inside of the 800 or so JMDL'ers joined here together. Thanks as always for putting it so well, Bob. Bob NP: Diana Krall, "I'll String Along With You" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:41:18 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: state of the list - some more homework hi cruise on over to jmdl.com read the lyrics to sisotowbell lane. compare it to this list & members. parody some of the lyrics. "les is fixing the list in the rain" "jovial neighbours come down when they will" (ok - that line just slots right on in. "each of us rocks his share" "our tongues turn blue" (smurphy gets his own line!?!?!?!?) ron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:13:44 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: The State of the List - Instant messaging info - No Joni content Moni offered: > As an additional way of communication I offer to compile a buddy list > of AIM/AOL users and mail it to anyone interested off-list. That way > you could import that list and see whether anyone from this list here > is online and maybe in the mood for a little chat. AIM offers the > ability to send instant messages as well as create chat rooms. Couple of other things about instant messaging (IMing): AIM/AOL offers a way to IM without downloading/installing software. Visit http://www.aim.com/get_aim/express/aim_expr.adp IMICI offers free software that allows you to IM with people who use AIM, Yahoo, MSN, and ICQ - at the SAME time. I use IMICI and I love it. Visit http://users.imici.com/signup.php, and choose the "Demonstration" license. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:13:31 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Them Frisbees - (bob's sweet 16 of great joni covers) actually, the thing that got me to reply to this was bob's np. kansas! and not just any kansas, but a great unknown song, of which there are many off that band's first two or three albums... but to the joni content. bob, could you post the tracklist of your first sweet 16 again? i don't remember if any of these are on bob's sweet 16, but these are some of my favorite joni covers that i think should be on any compilation: river - robert downey jr both sides now - cassandra wilson with pat martino, guitar that song about the midway - bonnie raitt urge for going - tom rush and a few more... >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of >SCJoniGuy@aol.com >Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 8:37 AM >To: "Laurent Olszer"; joni@smoe.org >Subject: Them Frisbees > > >In a message dated 2/24/2003 7:19:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, >olszer@xlsecurity.com writes: > >> Played Bob's Sweet Sixteen, his best of Joni >> covers; blew my mind. That's it I'm hooked on frisbees. > >Thanks, Laurent! Of course, I'm happy to share a copy with >whomever would like one, and I'm also happy to entertain the idea >of making another one. I'd love to hear suggestions from the list >regarding what should be on it. > >Bob > >NP: Kansas, "Miracles Out Of Nowhere" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:36:42 -0500 From: Bruce Kimerer Subject: re:Travelogue review The NZ reviewer wrote: "It gives new meaning to a song such as "Woodstock", making it less the hippie reverie and more a remembrance of paradise lost." I pulled out my vinyl of LOTC (I don't have it on CD) the other week and listened to the original Woodstock for the first time in quite a while. I was struck by the fact that that initial recording is not a "hippie reverie" in the least. In fact, it seems to my ears to have much of the sense of ominous foreboding that is further orchestrated in the Travelogue version. And that spooky choir of jonivoices at the end is really kind of chilling. PS: A Grammy comment: Example of how repeated performance can transform a song -- Bruce's The Rising last night was stunning I thought. I was much more impressed (and moved) by the song than any other time I've heard it, either on the album or the various live versions he did when he was publicizing the album's release. Gotta be all those concerst he's done in the meantime. Another Grammy note: Is Sheryl Crow starting to look like Celine Dion or what? Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:38:50 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: Guitars To Darice and Kate, First of all, it was I who had complained about the representations made re the JM guitar on e-bay (which eventually went for $4,750, if this was not previously noted - I suspect this was a "steal" for the buyer, but what I don't know about such things has no doubt filled many books). The following was posted by the person (Paul @ anglesnet.com) who wrote to the list: > Joni recently purchased new guitars from Fred and asked him to sell a number > of her older ones that she used to record Hejira and to tour. So, to help > him help her out, I'm putting them on eBay. > Now that implies to me that the buyer is really buying them from Joni (no?) and that Fred was simply her agent. I found that not clear. In fact, on e-bay, the seller is represented to be Fred. Well, which was it? Had Joni already sold her guitars back to Fred (say, as trad-ins, for something less than the reserve price), with Fred to then free to re-sell them for whatever he could manage ? If so, the above is not really entirely up front either. Or is Fred really just taking a commision on the deal ? (Are Joni's capital gains - not to mention alternative minimum - taxes affected by the e-bay transaction ?). The description on e-bay began with "Joni originally purchased this Ibanez George Benson guitar and several others from Fred Walecki's Westwood Music when she was recording Hejira and played it for years while she was touring. (See About Me to learn more about Fred Walecki.)" From that, I posted some wonderings about whether it was one of the instruments used in the S&L tour, etc. An "important correction" was posted 4 days later - I would guess at Fred's insistence (or perhaps Joni's ?). One is left to wonder, though, why the initial "story" was ever put out there in the first place. Darice and Kate - would you have made this representation without confirming it first ? Really, the description (even after the correction) was not very forthcoming. For example, I would have expected something like "This is one of approximately two dozen (?) GB Ibanez guitars that Joni purchased from Fred over the years. She used this particular guitar in performances (if so) on her Refuge of the Roads (?) tour. It was built in February, 1982." Of course, if this was a guitar that she did not use on stage, I think that should have been stated. My initial point is that one's credibility suffers when one misrepresents. Sorry, just cannot undo that. Just for the record, my initial post read as follows: "From the site (that I revisited via Dan's link) came the following correction. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2508437444 "IMPORTANT CORRECTION The serial numbers for this instrument are B825576 for the body and 4589 for the head stock. In doing some research, I find that the "B" indicates that it was manufactured in February and the "82" is 1982. So it definitely was not used to record "Hejira", although she did use it on tour." That means that it definitely was not used in the S&L video, either. What an odd misrepresentation to make by the seller (about Hejira). Yes, he corrected it, but one's credibility is bound to suffer from that type of gaffe. Are we sure it is one of Joni's at all ? Yeah, probably. But I would want more confirmation than this guy correcting an error that was bound to be caught sooner rather than later anyway. I assume he is now talking about the Refuge of the Roads tour." Bobsart That said, I think I wish I had bought it. :-). Maybe one of the later ones, after I get more comfortable with the process. I still think these ultimately belong in Joni's museum. You know, like the Picasso or Rodin museums in Paris, or Joni's in LA ? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:52:48 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: The State of the List NJC SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >Well, we actually preferred initially to be called the "Power Elite", until YOU joined, then we changed our title to "He-Men Murphy Hater Club". We changed the secret handshake at that time as well. ;~) > > > Damn you for telling! You pledged on the English Girl's cover of Help Me (Vol 14 #8) to never, ever tell Murphy about that! I suggest you turn in your members only tie died day glo Joni satin boxer shorts at once. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:00:21 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: NJC - Grammys and JMDLers - NJC Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >I found myself thinking about a few of you tonight during the Grammys because >so many of the artists nominated for awards remind me of JMDLers. You know >what I mean? > >Eminem . . . Rev. Vince. > I suppose it says something sad about me that I am very complimented by that! And do I dare suggest that Harvey Fierstein made me think of you? :-) (the Rev) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:00:16 EST From: Bobsart48@aol.com Subject: Re: The Grammies and Joni's attitude - trace elements of JC I watched the Grammies last night. I was ill before watching them, and they did not do too much to improve my spirits or my health. Really, I found the content to be very disappointing. The Norah Jones album was one of only a few that I bought this year. It is a pleasant album, to be sure, and would have been a reasonably worthy "best new artist" award winner in an average year. That it garnered best record, though, is really a sad, sad commentary on the state of pop music these days (especially since I do not feel any violent objections to its having won the award). Here, I think I sense I am disagreeing with my friend Bob Muller again, who has said he feels that Joni's contemporaries are producing fine new work. Is it really that fine, that it could not surpass the Norah Jones album ? I did buy the JT CD (and I like his recent DVD, which has a number of the songs from the new reconrd on it). But I do not think it is that good - sorry Victor. In fact, I would proffer that of Joni's albums, virtually all of them are better records than this year's big winner. Anyway, I will back my judgment to my death bed on LOTC, Blue, FTR, C&S, Hejira, DJRD, Night Ride Home and TI. And how many "Records of the Year" did Joni actually garner ? 0 ? Let us remember, this is not the listening public voting. I have to sympathize with Joni a bit in this regard. I mean, really. When she's right, she's right. Norah Jones is a pleasant performer, but (as she was described on the show) is basically a novice. For example, in terms of talent, she is not even on the same planet as Diana Krall (whose live Paris album was a much more interesting listen, to my ears). Of course, that was not original material, so that is not really a fair comparison. Still.... Gosh, if I keep posting like this, I'll have to start signing all my posts Bob Sourtorius :-) (Hoping my meds kick in ...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: deb talan sjc thanks to jenny, kate and ken for the insight into deb talan...i wanted to post what i've found. here's a bit of information as well as a taste of her work on cdbaby. her musical influences include joni mitchell, shawn colvin, jonatha brooke and suzanne vega. mags. http://cdbaby.com/cd/debtalan You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:02:18 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: The State of the List some jc craig wrote >>His sister Cam introduced me to Joni right after MOA and I was hooked, I knew who Joni was but did not like the scary chick music of the time<< lol..this cracks me up...what was this scary chick music of the time craig? scary like love (joni, laura) or scary like wild (grace, janis)? bob wrote >>I seriously doubt that anyone on the list wants to become Director of Joniland Security! So . . . INCLUDE ME OUT!<< oh bob my sides ache with laughter...(msawl?) ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:02:22 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: what brought you to joniland? NJC? >>Also, I didn't come here nearly three years ago looking for this pastime . . . I was trying to sell extra tickets to a Joni concert.<< i love this topic (is it jc or njc?)! i came here about 3 years ago too! just a bit before everyone was getting ready to go to pazfest... i almost went but was so new & chickened out...now i wish i had! but since it was a fundraiser i sent some of my cds for giveaways...i can't remember why i decided to join but i drawn in immediately to the friendliness & vast knowledge about joni & such intelligent conversations... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:10:59 -0500 From: "Heather" Subject: RE: the state of the list ron wrote- <> oh yeah. homework. listen to at least one joni song a day. lets keep some truth & beauty fresh in our minds. we all could do with it. This is the simplest yet most pertinent statement I have read thus far. I'm really not into picking apart Joni's lyrics. They are the way they are ... she wrote them. What I do like to read is how Joni's music strikes listers at any particular moment in their day / life. Like the other day when it was snowing so terribly and I got the urge to cook ... I wondered if I should listen to Joni while cooking. Some replied ...no biggie. We are here to discuss Joni's music. Though I am a NJC subscriber since '98, I end up skimming many of the posts. Though I do value much of what is written by listers in an educational way, I have always felt that I wanted the choice of being involved or not. I realize people are different and I always try to understand people viewpoints. That is important to me and keeps me evolving. I've made bonds with several people on this list that I cherish very much. I do feel very strongly about making connections through Joni's music that, until 1998, I thought I was the only one who listened to it! :-) Now I have even MORE homework to do! Thanks a lot, Ron! ;-D As always .... my best to everyone, Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:19:46 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: re:Travelogue review Bruce, I agree completely about Woodstock. So many writers trot out the "voice of her generation" cliche and cite Woodstock as some sort of hippie anthem, but Joni's version of her own song doesn't sound like an anthem at all. I'm not sure it's a particularly hopeful song. She DREAMED she saw the bombers turning into butterflies, but dreams aren't reality. She says we've GOT to get ourselves back to the garden; she doesn't say we're already there. At 05:36 PM 2/24/03 -0500, Bruce wrote: >I pulled out my vinyl of LOTC (I don't have it on CD) the other week and >listened to the original Woodstock for the first time in quite a while. I >was struck by the fact that that initial recording is not a "hippie >reverie" in the least. In fact, it seems to my ears to have much of the >sense of ominous foreboding that is further orchestrated in the Travelogue >version. And that spooky choir of jonivoices at the end is really kind of >chilling. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/03 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:21:16 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: Re: The State of the List njc I think things should be left just where they are. Like em that way. mack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:37:34 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Nah ... let's take the NJC tag off, just to see what happens ... Bob "Smurf" Murphy wrote: > Also, I didn't come here nearly three years ago looking for this > pastime. I was trying to sell extra tickets to a Joni concert. Kate wrote: > i love this topic (is it jc or njc?)! i came here about 3 years ago > too! just a bit before everyone was getting ready to go to pazfest... > i almost went but was so new & chickened out...now i wish i had! but > since it was a fundraiser i sent some of my cds for giveaways...i > can't remember why i decided to join but i drawn in immediately to > the friendliness & vast knowledge about joni & such intelligent > conversations... I subscribed sometime in September 1997 (I think), thinking this might be the place to get a "heads up" on new albums and performances. I jumped into the conversation pretty quickly without really introducing myself - instead I wrote a bit about wanting so badly to visit Maidstone when I lived in North Dakota, and wondering if anyone had been there. I was a little intimidated when no one answered, but then Chuck E wrote to welcome me and said, "Stick around." So I did. "No regrets!" Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:43:54 EST From: Aerchak@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list What to say, what to say. Initially, I wanted to comment about some of the posts regarding the "state of the list." But by the time I had gotten to the end of the digest, I thought I had read some "argueing" about whether there is an "inner circle" or not. I use quotation marks because I want to be really careful not to offend anyone. At that point I felt, "what really is the point of posting at all?". Half of these folks get each entry as they come in, so by the time the other half gets it in digest form (daily I might add), things have already been responded to and I get confused. Not to mention, I fell twice, not once, on my walk to get the mail. And on the second fall, I took a good bump to my head. That said, some thoughts on the list: 1) I was totally surprised to hear Les say that he didn't care for the political discussions because I thought it was Les that had stated that the people who did not want the political posts had spewed venom or made venomous renarks. After that, I never made a peep because after I posted that I did not think this was the "saddam hussein discussion list" and switched to joni only, I figured that could have been considered "venomous". So I shut up. I felt when I objected to the political content, I had absolutely no support, so I am surprised as to how many people also found that tedious. I have gotten over it now and gotten so used to skimming that it is no longer germane. 2) Overall the JMDL is not warm to new people, there are people who attack you the second you post, and then refuse to make amends when you stick around. Luckily, there are a few good old timers (one in particular for me, but, ONLY ONE, although that's all you need) that makes one welcome. 3) The JMDL is a big clique 4) the JMDL is lacking humor, takes itself way too seriously and should lighten way the fuck up 5) do the members of the JMDL not have lives and 6) do you ever think that if Joni read this she would think we were a bunch of freaks? I love Joni. Her music has a big place in my soul and always will, but I do not know if that is enough to keep me connected with a bunch of strangers in cyberspace. A lot of you talk about deep friendship and deep love, well unless you are all a bunch of total wackjobs, that is for those of you have actually met and connected. For the rest of us it's just words on a screen. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:50:58 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Petula Clark (correction) now Lulu, njc --- Moni Kellermann wrote: > The person I > met who sang Carey was > Lulu (also a well-known Brit pop singer from the > Sixties)! (Claws out) And Lulu now has that unfortunate duet/remake of the Bob Seager chestnut "We've got tonight" with Ronan Keating - as if *that* needed recording at all, much less in that vaguely out-of-time discoesque way. (Claws back in - mrewr!) ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:54:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mags N Brei Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? <<<"No regrets!">> hey Loori, isnt that a Tom Rush tune?? ;-) Im sure we can do a six degrees easily between Tom and Joni can we not?? ahem. what brought me to 'here' in the first place. without going into the gory details, i was venturing out on a new path in life. looking for the key to set me free literally! hey nice lyrics dont you think? anyway... starting about 1999, I had been reading the joni mitchell . com web site and noticed a discussion list, but didnt join in until the spring of 2000. like Heather said...I thought I was the only one who listened to Joni's music...and like our skaterly Jimmy says... surprise surprise surprise!!!!! I found a well established community which I continue to love and enjoy being a part of. ah, more of the gushing of winter mags. okay newbies...how would you enhance your membership here? what can we do to draw you into the centre? what brought you to Joni land? talk to me. Mags aka Moogs. np: Tom Rush, No Regrets :-)) , tks Brei p.s. we are going to see Tom in April at our local community college woohoo... :-) You open my heart, you do. Yes you do. - JM Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:03:09 EST From: Kardinel@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #141 Sometimes I am afraid to post. When I first did someone wrote me and indicated I was some kind of star struck fan and I lost my confidence. I really felt like an idiot. You could say it was my problem but I was trying and had just got a good computer. I have been a joni fan forever but I realize she is not doing much. Travelogue wasn't very interesting to most people and if it hadn't been for this site I wouldn't have heard anything much about it. I don't know anyone who bought it except me. I just don't think many people are interested in her anymore. But soon she will be on PBS and maybe we should do something big for the big 60. I still love her music and even though she talks about the same things all the time, we are all broken records. Maureen 21 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:05:35 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: if it ain't broke don't fix it njc (No Joni content) --- walterphil wrote: > > ps. am i the only one that hates > those abbreviations for joni album titles? > everytime i see STAS i have to stop and say > what the fuck is that?? > HELL NO! I hate the bastardy things at least as much as you do! I always have to translate them into English and don't always succeed. Likewise hate things like LOL when a good haha! will do the trick. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:22:48 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: State of the List John Sprackland wrote: > but then again, hell, when you're >excited about your new vinyl copy of 'Blue' you have to tell SOMEONE! >Its fine, just fine... just ignore the bits you don't dig and cherish >the diamonds in the rough. > exactly John. who do you tell? Your friends who think Joni is music to commit suicide to? Your dog who doesn't give a shit? Ignoring stuff is often a good idea too. >John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:33:21 +0000 From: mpredmore@att.net Subject: Travelogue-Piccolos! What a great use of piccolos in Slouching Towards Bethlehem... Right as she sings "nightmare". Love those seconds! My favorite of the moment is Job, love those Vince Mendoza treatments! Mary in Calif. "If you want me, I'll be in the bar..." P.S. Steve Dulson, where are you? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:34:21 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: state of the list - some more homework - suddenly NJC Ron writes: > "our tongues turn blue" (smurphy gets his own line!?!?!?!?) Get my own line? Yes, Ron . . . "Sometimes I do, sometimes I do" - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:38:06 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Them Frisbees - (bob's sweet 16 of great joni covers) In a message dated 2/24/2003 5:33:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, pleader@nyc.rr.com writes: > but a great unknown song, of which there are many off > that band's first two or three albums... I guess Kansas jumped the proverbial shark but not before they put out some GREAT stuff. Howzabout this for a Kansas-Joni bridge..."Borne on Wings of Steel" from their awesome "Masque" had the Icarus metaphor just like Joni's "Amelia"! I guess I lost track of them after "Point Of Know Return" but like you say that early stuff was great! > > could you post the tracklist of your first > sweet 16 again? Here you go: 1. Lydia van Dam - All I Want 2. Will Taylor - Black Crow 3. Karin Allyson - Blue Motel Room 4. The Rumba Club - This Flight Tonight 5. Anni Clark - He Comes For Conversation 6. Christine Sullivan - I Think I Understand 7. Mark Wise - Woodstock 8. Prince - A Case Of You 9. Gregson & Collister - Same Situation 10. Bonnie Raitt - That Song About The Midway 11. Jack Donahue - Little Green 12. Chaka Khan - Man From Mars 13. Carla Helmbrecht - Song To A Seagull 14. Kevyn Lettau - You Turn Me On I'm A Radio 15. Counting Crows - Big Yellow Taxi 16. Carl Verheyen - Cactus Tree Bob NP: The Blind Boys of Alabama, "Run On For A Long Time" (speaking of awesome...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:39:16 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: if it ain't broke don't fix it njc (No Joni content) "walterphil" wrote: > ps. am i the only one that hates > those abbreviations for joni album titles? > everytime i see STAS i have to stop and say > what the fuck is that?? Catherine responded: > HELL NO! I hate the bastardy things at least as much > as you do! And I say ... LOL! LMAO! STAS Clouds LOTC Blue FTR C&S MOA HOSL or THOSL Hejira DJRD Mingus S&L WTRF DED CMIAR (sometimes CMIARS) NRH TI Hits Misses TTT BSN T'log And DAMMIT! I hope there are MORE!!! ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:41:05 EST From: Rusty10113@aol.com Subject: Re: State of the List Hi...some thoughts from a lurker who's been prodded out of his online slumber by some incredibly eloquent posts on Joni and gay men, which I totally related to, and felt brave enough to share some of my personal expriences, all Joni releated, while perhaps hoping to m ake some profound connections... Some history: I found the list because I was in the midst of a troubled time, and I turned to Joni's music full force to get through it. I was doing some temp jobs, with lots of time to surf the web, and found myself reading anything and everything Joni...the website, and its incredible content saved me, to be sure...then, I learned there was a list...coffee and Joni chat, sounded great to me! I subscribed to the list to feel less lonely, to make some connections possibly, and keep up on Joni news...not very complicated, my idea of a fantastic day would be coffee, a cool cafe and lots of Joni filtering through the speakers... so, when I see a lot of drama or fussing about politics and nitpicky stuff and rules and all on the list each day, I tend to tune out, and lose interest... kinda disapointing, really... Since my recent post, i've made some wonderful off-line connections, and felt a small sense of belonging that I've loved...the main reason I was interested in the list to begin with... so I sure hope the list stays friendly, inclusive and incredibly warm and non-judgmental... a lot of lurkers such as myself would rise to the surface, trust me.. Mitch in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:42:54 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > > 2) Overall the JMDL is not >warm to new people, there are people who attack you the second you post, and >then refuse to make amends when you stick around. Luckily, there are a few >good old timers (one in particular for me, but, ONLY ONE, although that's all >you need) that makes one welcome. 3) The JMDL is a big clique 4) the JMDL >is lacking humor, takes itself way too seriously and should lighten way the >fuck up 5) do the members of the JMDL not have lives and 6) do you ever >think that if Joni read this she would think we were a bunch of freaks? > > > You know Andrea in point 2 you make what could seem a valid statement and then in your next poitns go on to insult people. Maybe that is why oyu have had neagtive responses? Maybe I am being thick, and misreading what is meant to be friendly and complimentary. Unless I have got you confused with another person, I seem to recall a number of private posts between us regarding our love of dogs.I hope I was not the only person who wrote you in friendly manner. if so, poor you to have only me as a friend! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:43:33 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: if it ain't broke don't fix it njc (No Joni content) lori yrsab! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:44:59 +0000 From: alan.larson@mchsi.com Subject: the Anti-Mariah! njc Overanalyzing maybe? I heard the delightful I Don't Know a couple months ago, and had it pegged as a winner right away. It's a song that reminds you of the kind of magic perhaps you felt the first time you heard Joni. It may not have the hook of a standard pop tune, but it's melody is haunting and pervasive. It leaves an indelible mark on my soul. I thought it very humble of the writer to say "I'm so young, and this is so fast! I promise to catch up!" Sorry I forgot his name. And I thank the music gods for the joy of my humming and whistling today. the "anti-Mariah" is ok in my book! what does everyone else think? i was also glad to see John Mayer's Your Body is Wonderland win. delurking in iowa city al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:46:56 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2003 #141 Kardinel@aol.com wrote: > >Travelogue wasn't very interesting to most people > and lets not forget the flaming that took place when Trevelogue was discussed. And when BSN was and when TTT was! Even Joni can bring out the worst! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:46:19 -0500 From: "Jim Leonard" Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? I'm a 48-year old music junkie, first and foremost, and my first experiences "surfing the 'net" were, naturally, centered around searches for my favorite artists. I didn't even know discussion lists existed when I got my computer, but I joined the Rust List (Neil Young), Van-L (the Van Morrison Discussion List), the Pat Metheny list (on which jazz, in general, is also discussed) and the JMDL - all on that same first day. I'm far more active on the others than on the JMDL, as they're far more "on topic" in terms of being music-based. Yet, a similar-but-different sense of community pervades each of them, and listers do get together for concerts and fests. In the case of Neil Young's fans, the big one is the annual International Rust Fest at Neil's Bridge School Benefit Concerts in Mountain View, CA. The Rusties camp out (or stay in nearby hotels), play music around the campfires all night ... all the same kinds of things I've read are done at the Joni Fests. I've left this list and then returned, and I remain subscribed to the JMDL for the JC and the music-related NJC, because I'm interested in the musical tastes of Joni's fan base. As to which lister's birthday it is, and what I believe are the should-be-private posts which are sent to the list so that all can know how ______ the poster is (insert your choice of sensitive, caring, etc.), I gotta say it all gets a little too touchy-feely for me. As a matter of fact, I wish I could find a post I sent to the JMDL at a similar sniping-turned-self-examination point a year or two ago. I think I titled it "The JMDL (a lurker's perspective"). Me and, I think, Julius (?) went a couple of rounds because of it, but I also got a fair amount of off-list mail - some from very surprising quarters - which agreed with me. I remember I wrote that it would be interesting to see a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's "Lifeboat" starring the members of the JMDL. (Murphy laughed, I recall.) :-) My point was that much of the professed "love" between listers is/was delusional and/or insincere, and that it vanishes when the rubber hits the road. So, I say ... save your love for your families and your significant others, and for those JMDLers you really do get to know well in the flesh and come to love. Then, profess that love off-list, where the sentiment really means something, and is not for public show. Instead, let's talk music! If not Joni's all the time, there's a world of other artists' music we can discuss. How 'bout we throw Jewel to the wolves? Best, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:54:51 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Lori Fye wrote: >I subscribed sometime in September 1997 (I think), thinking this might >be the place to get a "heads up" on new albums and performances. > me too! oh, that's right, it is against the rules to post a "me too" post so I will add, it was about 13 months later for me. I bet Lori (and everyone else) enjoyed those 13 months! Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:58:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? I just wanted to see if there was anyone else on the planet that thought Hejira was the best record that had ever been made. Found out I wasn't as strange as I had previously suspected. ;~) Bob NP: Blind Boys, "Way Down In The Hole" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:06:01 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: tenderness and respect Magswrites: > Ive learned so much .. not only about Joni herself, Ive lived into what it means to be a part of a real community comprised of intelligent, funny, warm, sexy, sassy, sweet people from all over the world. I agree with everything you said, Mags, and with the post from Jimmy that prompted your reply. I met with a very good friend of mine from Argentina (Wally, AKA the Birthday Fairy) the other night in Boston and had a wonderful time. Now I know most of you probably think of me as a suave, cosmopolitan type, flitting from one continent to another, but I am really just a provincial New Englander at heart. Fact is, before I joined this list I didn't even KNOW anyone from Argentina! Now I've met all kinds of terrific people -- from New Orleans to New Zealand! I would go out of my way any day of the week to meet any JMDLers I've never met before if they came to Boston, or if I traveled to their neck of the woods, or at a Jonifest. I'll never forget when Walt came to visit me when I lived in Rhode Island. We sat down and talked like old friends right away. I've learned here that a friend of Joni's is a friend of mine. The love and caring Mags talks about it real. I almost left the JMDL after my first week or so because there was a flame war going on and I also felt like an outsider. But then my (now) great friend Ashara told me to stick around, that it would change. It did, and I'm still here. I just hope it continues to be the incredible place it has been. - --Bob NPIMH: Me, softly weeping . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:09:29 +0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2003 #63 State of the list On Monday, Feb 24, 2003, at 23:43 Europe/London, Aerchak@aol.com wrote: > 2) Overall the JMDL is not > warm to new people, there are people who attack you the second you > post, and > then refuse to make amends when you stick around. Luckily, there are > a few > good old timers (one in particular for me, but, ONLY ONE, although > that's all > you need) that makes one welcome. 3) The JMDL is a big clique 4) > the JMDL > is lacking humor, takes itself way too seriously and should lighten > way the > fuck up 5) do the members of the JMDL not have lives and 6) do you > ever > think that if Joni read this she would think we were a bunch of freaks? 2) Think of the number of people on the list - somewhere around 800 at last count (Les?). For every one person that attacks you, I'm willing to bet that there's at least 10 or so that probably read your post and don't. That's a nice ratio to bear in mind. 3) If the JMDL is a clique, it's a very damn big clique. :) 4) Nooooooo. Stick around longer, I think you'll change that view. The JMDL has been very serious *of late*, but really does not lack humour or take itself seriously. Really. I suppose hypothetically it could be argued that, at times, individuals are guilty of the things you mentioned. But the whole list? That's a big brush to be tarring with, I really have to assume you didn't quite mean it that way? 5) Yes, we all have lives - as I'm sure do you (I'm not sure you meant it to be a rhetorical question, but it is grammatically so :-). I think that this was a touch unfair: everyone's circumstances are different, leaving some more time than others to post here. 6) Ah - the $6,000,000 question! Probably. And she probably has read this in the past - it would be hard to imagine not given that she once visited the original creator of www.jonimitchell.com and would certainly have become aware of the list then, if she wasn't before. That said... I couldn't care less what Joni thinks of us or me. It's a free world, and if she gets the hump if I diss her 80s output, then so be it. She's still the most influential songwriter/musician I've ever come across. All in all, my impression is that in your eyes, collectively, we've been judged and found wanting, on a fairly small sample of events at what is a very serious time in the world. As Colin said - the list ebbs and flows. The heat and seriousness of the moment is just a phase. The JMDL is quite unlike any other internet list or community I've ever come across, and I've been online for over 10 years now. As such, it has a lot to offer, but I guess the flipside is that it demands something in return - it's not quite a free ride. Me? I'm glad I joined, I'm glad I stuck with it, even when one or two things had me absolutely incandescent. Regards, - --Chris Marshall chrisAThatstand.org (AIM: Chr15Marshall) "If you're ever lost, I'll beat the world to finding you" Stryngs, "Bobblehats and Beer" Band website, with downloads, at http://www.stryngs.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:15:52 -0500 From: vince Subject: the Grammies njc Bobsart48@aol.com wrote: >I watched the Grammies last night. I was ill before watching them, and they >did not do too much to improve my spirits or my health. > >Really, I found the content to be very disappointing. The Norah Jones album >was one of only a few that I bought this year. It is a pleasant album, to be >sure, and would have been a reasonably worthy "best new artist" award winner >in an average year. That it garnered best record, though, is really a sad, >sad commentary on the state of pop music these days > or it is sad commentary on the Grammy voters. I agree with your assessment of the album. I can think of a number of albums that I think were more significant than Norah Jones' and will have an impact on the future. However, once I saw the list of nominees I knew she would sweep. The Grammies tend to go overboard year in and year out and Norah Jones particularly fit the demographic of the winner they like to over honor. They are also the kiss of death sometimes and Norah Jones has talent so I hope this overkill doesn't hurt her career and her development as an artist. I felt for the 2nd time the Grammys bent over backwards to keep from giving album of the year to whom I felt it should go to. Since everyone thinks I am biased there, I won't get into it. I wouldn't have even nominated Norah Jones for album of the year (I agree, new artist was the appropriate grammy) and would have replaced that nomination with Coldplay. But that Norah Jones was not the song of the year, who can even hum it? I would have given it How You Remind Me (Nickleback) or Without Me (Em) or even Hot in Here (Nelly) which was everywhere this last year. And record of the year - again, those same three - My darkhouse record of the year would have been She (fucking) Hates Me by Puddle of Mud or Youth of the Nation - those records had a lot of meaning and will be ones that will be remembered for years to come. But it is all a joke anyway. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:19:51 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? Jim writes: > I gotta say it all gets a little too touchy-feely for me. Now me: I think somebody needs a great, big JMDL cyberhug! C'mere, ya big lug! Jim also says: > I wrote that it would be interesting to see a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's > "Lifeboat" starring the members of the JMDL. (Murphy > laughed, I recall.) :-) Me: Yes, that IS funny! I can just see that poor, clueless Muller accidentially saving us all by using his pathetic covers frisbee CDs to attract the search planes! - --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:21:58 -0500 From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? - NJC Vince writes: > I bet Lori (and everyone else) enjoyed those 13 months! Ah, yes . . . the glory days of the JMDL. (sigh) __Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:26:07 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: what brought you to joniland? NJC? Kate Bennett wrote: > >i love this topic (is it jc or njc?)! > It's just easier to play it safe on that one! I came to the list July 97. My very first pc, my first time on line and I found the JMDL. i'll not foreget that day. The pc was connected up about 10am. I got on it, having never used on bfore, and started to play and search the net. A little later i was annoyed to be disturbed by the door bell. I picked up the intercom to hear John's voice. I thought 'shit waht is wrong, why aren't you at work?' He said, i ahev been at work all day,it's 8pm'. Oh! Anyway, I found the JMDL and thought, this is great, hundreds of people I can annoy without too much effort. I was in a manic phase of my disease at the time. So of course I didn't really come here to annoy anyone. i only found out I pissed you all off most of the time when I came down. I have learned to love that, what choice is there? My first post, more or elss, was an inncoent enough one: I asked if the Whitman some of you were discussing was the gay poet Walt Whitman. all hell broke loose. i was hauled over the coals for bad grammar and also for bringing up the gay word and then it became, you guessed it, a gay bashing/gay defending thread that ladsted a while. Well,manic or not, I was really very upset by it. And because I was manic, i didn't sleep and just sat at my pc all night and day. I wrote loads of posts and was seduced by the screen with words on it. I spewed and spewed and then i spewed some more. I wrote some very personal things, made myself very vulnerable(tho id idn't know it at the time-that was still when I thought people all were good, and it was only me who wasn't ) and pissed people off. I gave people ammunition to fire at me. they did too. Some people are really not very nice. It is used to dimiss my views as the rantings of a nutter or my views are not valid because of my past. As if the people who say this are not the products of their pasts! HOWEVER, i have also met some of the most wonderful people thru this list. I have had lovely posts from total strangers that i never hear from again, but they write and say nice things. I have discovered some things about myslef I didn't know. I discovered I was a good person. I discovered I was intelligent and not the thick worhtless shit i had been brought to believe. I discovered that other peopl baheved appallingly and thought nothing of it. I discvoered that people could be really kind and accepting. I dsicopvred that other people could be stupid. And funny. And perverse and dogged and lovely and comapssionate, and hypocriatacal and stoic and humble and proud and ...human. I also discovered Iw as human. Did the JMDL cure me? NO! I have had two breakdowns, long downs, a coupk,e of ups in these last 6 years. But I am far moree togtehr and confident person now than I was befoe the JMDL. And YES it is the jmdl I credit for this and so does my partner. I know people don;t believe me when i say, but before theJMDL I had no opinions! really. I didn't know i could think, that I was allowed to have an opinion. And yes, sometiems I get carried away with this new knowledge. I am transparent, i guess, to some and my mood swings show in my posts or in the rate of them or thelack of them. tuff. I amke no excuse for myself anymore. i am as I am and amazingly am loved for it. since being myself, I am disliked by as many people and loved my more than when iwas trying to be whateverr people wanted. I prefer to go unmedicated. People on the list have even objected to that, not understanding the problems medication can cause. It is possible for me that the chikcen are now coming home to roost. i have to go into hosptial for heart tests and a possible angiogram.drugs i have taken in the past have affected my heart then. one of them, i wa stold at 19. could have cause perment damage.(having laready ahd sevre liver disease due to drugs) Maybe I am about to find out it has. also, I have grown a thicker skin. whilst I often dreaded opening my posts when a heated thing was going on, i don't any more, it all rolls off me. the last time i allowed anyone to really hurt me or upset me was when last year someone suggested i neeed therapy because they didn;t like what I wrote. That was the last time I gave my power away. Since then i ahev learned to enjoy seeing people losing their arguments and flingin insults my way in defence of themselves,. Despite the vulnerability, I ahve no regrets abotut he JMDL. The positive afr outweighs the negative for me. I hope the JMDL remains as it always has been, filled with good people, interesting epople. I will be veyr sad to lose it. sorry this is long. tho on second thougths I am not. If you got this far, the apologyy is not needed. if you didn't then it is not needed. ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #142 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)