From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #139 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Monday, February 24 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 139 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: BAFTA'S NJC [FMYFL@aol.com] njc grammy link [vince ] Re: njc grammy link [] Re: njc grammy link [vince ] she said jazz but i think she meant folk ["walterphil" ] NJC - Grammys and JMDLers - NJC [Murphycopy@aol.com] The State of the List [Les Irvin ] testing njc ["mack watson-bush" ] Re: The State of the List [Little Bird ] Emperor's Clothes, Part 2 njc [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni's guitars [Dan Olson ] Re: The State of the List [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: The State of the List [Scott Price ] Today's Library Links: February 24 [ljirvin@jmdl.com] Re: New Joni Picture ["Moni Kellermann" ] Re: joni on CBC ["Moni Kellermann" ] Re: comments on my perfect box set - Petula Clark ["Moni Kellermann" Subject: njc grammy link for all those awards not being given on tv in all those categories some of us care about http://grammy.aol.com/awards/winners2003.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:13:07 +0800 (PHT) From: Subject: Re: njc grammy link > for all those awards not being given on tv in all those categories some > of us care about > > http://grammy.aol.com/awards/winners2003.html Vince, I am glad that Eminem won the Best Rap Album Award. Same with Diana Krall's LIVE IN PARIS for jazz vocal; and Pat Metheny for SPEAKING OF NOW as best contemporary jazz album. Am also happy for Coldplay, India.Arie and Renee Fleming (though I would prefer Anne Sofie Von Otter). And wow! Norah JOnes! Joseph in Manila ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:28:50 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: njc grammy link jpalis@kssp.upd.edu.ph wrote: >>I am glad that Eminem won the Best Rap Album Award. Same with Diana >>Krall's LIVE IN PARIS for jazz vocal; and Pat Metheny for SPEAKING OF NOW >>as best contemporary jazz album. Am also happy for Coldplay, India.Arie >>and Renee Fleming (though I would prefer Anne Sofie Von Otter). >> >>And wow! Norah JOnes! >> >>Joseph in Manila >> >> >> Em also has best short form video, for two and counting... I was happy for Coldplay and India.Arie and also Korn in the heavy metal category. Thanks for the post and the kind word for Em. I expected total silence on that from everyone. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:45:33 -0500 (EST) From: "walterphil" Subject: she said jazz but i think she meant folk I went to the newport jazz festival. Judy collins called me up. She was supposed to take me. Al Kooper had put us in touch and we were supposed to meet and go. Well, Judy stood me up, and she was my hero. It was kind of heartbreaking, I waited and waited and waited and she never came to pick me up to take me to Newport. A day went by and i got a phone call from her and she sounded kind of sheepish. She said somebody had sung one of my songs in a workshop. It was a terrible rendition, she said, but people went crazy. Judy really felt i should be at Newport, so she gave me instructions on how to get there. When I played there, I got that large roar and it made me incredibly nervous. from off the record by joe smith i have another joni reference ill type for you later from judys book xxx wf The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:27:24 -0500 From: Subject: T'LOG PROLOGUE It's true, isn't it, that T'LOG doesn't stand up to the test of time? There's a lot on it I can't bear to listen to -- even some tracks I additionally liked. Somehow, the arrangements GRATE. Still, there are tracks I can't do without: trouble child god must be a boogie man refuge of the roads hejira cherokee louise the dawntreader the last time I saw richard Still, 7 out of 22...IS bad. Oh well, No one is perfect, right? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:46:32 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: NJC - Grammys and JMDLers - NJC I found myself thinking about a few of you tonight during the Grammys because so many of the artists nominated for awards remind me of JMDLers. You know what I mean? Eminem . . . Rev. Vince. Bruuuuuce . . . Rose. Dave Matthews . . . Paz. Also . . . James Taylor sounds a lot like Victor, doesn't he? Avril Lavigne looks sorta like Alison without the breathtaking blue eyes. Norah Jones has a very nice manner about her, and something about the shy and sexy way she moves her eyes reminds me of Jody Johnson. And of course, I can't even hear the word Nelly without thinking of my good pal Jimmy! One other thing . . . has Aretha discovered Miyake? Maybe that would explain why she was dressed like a wedding cake! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:49:07 -0700 From: Les Irvin Subject: The State of the List Joniphiles - Can we talk? Does the JMDL seem to have taken on a different flavor lately? Does it seem to have lost some of its sense of community? Does anyone else feel this way? I find myself more and more simply skimming through posts rather than reading them. That makes me sad. It just feels like there's something missing. Maybe it's the content of late. I don't particularly care for the political threads which seem to be dominating in the last few months (I know others feel differently). Given that, I have even less of a liking for the thought of any kind of moderation. What can be done? I am really interested in a frank, civilized discussion on the state of the list. Along with a list of grievances, I'd also appreciate some real suggestions on how to actively improve the JMDL. Through the years, I've heard a lot of people say that this list is one of the best on the Internet. I feel like it's in danger of losing that distinction. Please voice your opinion and help me put this list back on top. Thanks in advance, Les ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:51:15 -0600 From: "mack watson-bush" Subject: testing njc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:10:20 -0800 (PST) From: Little Bird Subject: Re: The State of the List I know what you mean and I too feel this lack of spark lately - and this is coming from a "newbie" who only joined last fall. I can't really speak for how it used to be, years ago, but I do detect a disintegration of sorts regarding content, even since I joined. One theory is that Joni's latest album does not foster the same kind of discussion that an album of all new material would. There is only so much one can say about an album of songs that have been previously recorded and released by the same artist. Reaction to Travelogue was swift and categorical and that could account for a lack of interest in discussing this project beyond initial reactions. There is no tour in the works, no significant interviews to analyze, no new material of any sort, aside from the new style of the songs. Another theory is that the political climate on the planet Earth is very turbulent at the moment and perhaps cannot be denied or overlooked any longer. With a forum like this where mostly-intelligent people can express an opinion it's easy to want to comment on such significant matters, even though I agree that political discussions have no place here. Still, the urge is there - in the midst of a storm there is so much to say. Discussing an album may seem trivial in the bigger global picture to some. Having said that, there is a time and place for political discussions and this list is not the place. I have no constructive ideas about how to resolve this problem because I'm not really sure what the problem is, although I do detect its presence. Thanks for raising the issue. Maybe we'll come up a solution in due time. - -Andrew - -- Les Irvin wrote: > Joniphiles - > > Can we talk? Does the JMDL seem to have taken on a > different flavor > lately? Does it seem to have lost some of its sense > of community? Does > anyone else feel this way? I find myself more and > more simply skimming > through posts rather than reading them. That makes > me sad. > > It just feels like there's something missing. Maybe > it's the content of > late. I don't particularly care for the political > threads which seem to be > dominating in the last few months (I know others > feel differently). Given > that, I have even less of a liking for the thought > of any kind of moderation. > > What can be done? I am really interested in a > frank, civilized discussion > on the state of the list. Along with a list of > grievances, I'd also > appreciate some real suggestions on how to actively > improve the JMDL. > > Through the years, I've heard a lot of people say > that this list is one of > the best on the Internet. I feel like it's in > danger of losing that > distinction. > > Please voice your opinion and help me put this list > back on top. > > Thanks in advance, > Les Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:34:36 -0500 From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Emperor's Clothes, Part 2 njc The Bottom Line On Iraq: It's The Bottom Line By Arianna Huffington Boys, boys, you're all right. Sure, it's Daddy, oil, and imperialism, not to mention a messianic sense of righteous purpose, a deep-seated contempt for the peace movement, and, to be fair, the irrefutable fact that the world would be a better place without Saddam Hussein. But there's also an overarching mentality feeding the administration's collective delusions, and it can be found by looking to corporate America's bottom line. The dots leading from Wall Street to the West Wing situation room are the ones that need connecting. There's money to be made in post-war Iraq, and the sooner we get the pesky war over with, the sooner we (by which I mean George Bush's corporate cronies) can start making it. The nugget of truth that former Bush economic guru Lawrence Lindsey let slip last fall shortly before he was shoved out the oval office door says it all. Momentarily forgetting that he was talking to the press and not his buddies in the White House, he admitted: "The successful prosecution of the war would be good for the economy." To hell with worldwide protests, an unsupportive Security Council, a diplomatically dubious Hans Blix, an Osama giddy at the prospect of a united Arab world, and a panicked populace grasping at the very slender reed of duct tape and Saran Wrap to protect itself from the inevitable terrorist blow-back -- the business of America is still business. No one in the administration embodies this bottom line mentality more than Dick Cheney. The vice president is one of those ideological purists who never let little things like logic, morality, or mass murder interfere with the single-minded pursuit of profitability. His on-again, off-again relationship with the Butcher of Baghdad is a textbook example of what modern moralists condemn as "situational ethics," an extremely convenient code that allows you to do what you want when you want and still feel good about it in the morning. In the Cheney White House (let's call it what it is), anything that can be rationalized is right. The two were clearly on the outs back during the Gulf War, when Cheney was Secretary of Defense, and the first President Bush dubbed Saddam "Hitler revisited." Then Cheney moved to the private sector and suddenly things between him and Saddam warmed up considerably. With Cheney in the CEO's seat, Halliburton helped Iraq reconstruct its war-torn oil industry with $73 million worth of equipment and services -- becoming Baghdad's biggest such supplier. Kinda nice how that worked out for the vice-president, really: oversee the destruction of an industry that you then profit from by rebuilding. When, during the 2000 campaign, Cheney was asked about his company's Iraqi escapades, he flat out denied them. But the truth remains: When it came to making a buck, Cheney apparently had no qualms about doing business with "Hitler revisited." And make no mistake, this wasn't a case of hard-nosed realpolitik - -- the rationale for Rummy's cuddly overtures to Saddam back in '83 despite his almost daily habit of gassing Iranians. That, we were told, was all about "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." No, Cheney's company chose to do business with Saddam after the rape of Kuwait. After Scuds had been fired at Tel Aviv and Riyadh. After American soldiers had been sent home from Desert Storm in body bags. And in 2000, just months before pocketing his $34 million Halliburton retirement package and joining the GOP ticket, Cheney was lobbying for an end to U.N. sanctions against Saddam. Of course, American businessmen are nothing if not flexible. So his former cronies at Halliburton are now at the head of the line of companies expected to reap the estimated $2 billion it will take to rebuild Iraq's oil infrastructure following Saddam's ouster. This burn-and-build approach to business guarantees that there will be a market for Halliburton's services as long as it has a friend in high places to periodically carpet bomb a country for it. In the meantime, Halliburton, among many other Pentagon contracts, has a lucrative 10-year deal to provide food services to the Army that comes with no lid on potential costs. Lenin once scoffed that "a capitalist would sell rope to his own hangman." And, while the man got more than a few things wrong, he's been proven right on this one time and time again: from Hewlett-Packard and Bechtel helping arm Saddam back in the 80s, to the good folks at Boeing, Hughes Electronics, Lockheed Martin, and Loral Space whose corporate greed helped China steal rocket and missile secrets -- and point a few dozen long-range nukes our way. Clearly, our national interest runs a distant second when pitted against the rapacious desires of special interests and the politicians they buy with massive campaign contributions. Oil and gas companies donated $26.7 million to Bush and his fellow Republicans during the 2000 election and another $18 million in 2002. So does it really come as any surprise that Cheney's staff held secret meetings in October with executives from Exxon Mobil, ChevronTexaco, ConocoPhillips -- and, yes, Halliburton -- to discuss who would get what in a post-Saddam Iraq? As they say, to the victors -- and the big buck donors -- go the sp-oil-s. Here's my bottom line: At a time of war, at what point does subverting our national security in the name of profitability turn from ugly business into high treason? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:50:50 -0700 From: Dan Olson Subject: Re: Joni's guitars Just thought I would mention that Joni's guitar on ebay (the sunburst one) sold for $4750 (the reserve price was only $4000). I'll be monitoring the bids on the blond one. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:27:50 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: The State of the List Les, I have to chime in here. I have hardly been reading my JMDL mail for the past 2 months. What I feel we have lost here is our *community*, which I have highly valued. Yes, I think we have something very special here. In the past, this has been a place of caring, and of people who, through a love of the same music, bonded in a caring and insightful way, and topics would come and go as they would in a party or a morning coffee hour. I think one of the reasons we have lost the community feeling is that we seem to be stuck on one topic, and it seems to be a very heated one. I fear if we continue to discuss one topic only, it will become tedious and one by one, our community will become unraveled, one person at a time. I believe we all take on the energy of what is happening in the world. I believe the JMDL microcosm is a mirror of all that we see falling apart around us. I don't want to see this list moderated, but if we all took responsibility to move on and *become* the peace and bright light that we would like to see in the world, we can ALL make a difference here. Anyone game for bringing the energy of *community* back to the JMDL? Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:50:29 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: The State of the List Les Irvin writes: > What can be done? I am really interested in a frank, civilized discussion > on the state of the list. Along with a list of grievances, I'd also > appreciate some real suggestions on how to actively improve the JMDL. A very honest assessment, Les. I too heavily skim or delete or filter the majority of JMDL posts and as the years go by I find myself reading the list less and less. The "community" you ask about has fractured. In my opinion, various camps have pitched tents here and are being territorial. Those who are identified as being not of the tribe are given the bum's rush or worse; personal attacks have become all too common. I don't know how to "improve" it, other than to reprimand or uns*bscribe people who are abusive to others. I think that imposing a limit on the number of posts one is allowed to make on a daily basis would be a start. When someone posts incessantly on controversial topics it only serves to force the dissenters to reply in kind, creating a vicious circle. When someone posts incessantly on non-controversial topics it forces some to dismiss the posts as excessive chattiness...again speaking for myself I want to discuss "the life and times of Joni Mitchell," not what somebody's significant other had for breakfast that day or what percentage of JMDLers are circumcised. I'd like you to consider asking JMDLers to post no more than, say, four times a day. If enforced, this policy would greatly reduce the noise and may also serve to make posters more carefully consider what they are writing...instead of idle chatter perhaps we might enjoy a bit more thoughtful discourse. And since you asked for frankness, I will state that while I am generally in favor of "hands-off" type management styles, I don't think a contemporary internet list with lots of passionate and diverse members can ideally function without some leadership. I'm not calling for moderation, rather a more active, vocal, and decisive list owner, one who will quickly jump in when the shit starts flying, ready to scold, threaten, or banish when necessary. Necessary to keep the topics in the ballpark, necessary to keep the peace, necessary to guide and shape "one of the best lists on the internet." Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:04:26 -0500 From: ljirvin@jmdl.com Subject: Today's Library Links: February 24 On February 24 the following items were published: 1977: "Furry Lewis is Furious at Joni" - Rolling Stone (News Item) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=107 1991: "Joni Mitchell" - Los Angeles Times (Interview) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=162 2002: "2002 Lifetime Achievement Award Recipient - Joni Mitchell" - Grammy Magazine (Appreciation) http://www.jmdl.com/articles/view.cfm?id=750 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:24:45 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: New Joni Picture - ----- Original Message ----- From: > You can see this photo at: > http://www.williamclaxton.com/movie.html > in the 'Recent Work' gallery under > Portfolio. Click on the small picture of Joni > to enlarge it. (Bottom Left) You can directly access the picture at http://www.williamclaxton.com/rec/13.swf When viewed in a browser window, the stupid Flash file is enlarged but if you download it and then open it separately, it will have the correct size. moni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:41:51 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: joni on CBC - ----- Original Message ----- From: > do you know whether Canada and UK are the > same in terms of home video tapes? The TAPES are the same = VHS tapes. What you record on them is different. US/Canada = NTSC format UK = PAL format Most modern European vcrs can play back NTSC tapes. The NTSC format is converted into a "pseudo-PAL" format (to cheat the tv), so it can be viewed on a standard PAL tv. You CANNOT copy NTSC tapes with 2 PAL VCRs. To copy a NTSC tape, you need 2 NTSC vcrs. So, if you send someone a NTSC tape, depending on the state of the art of the vcr, it can be viewed on a PAL vcr/tv system. moni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:42:40 +0100 From: "Moni Kellermann" Subject: Re: comments on my perfect box set - Petula Clark > In a message dated 2/23/2003 2:10:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, > walterphil@excite.com writes: > > > i'm also a huge pet clark fan. I remember once taking photographs of Ms.Clark for a daily newspaper (late 80's). I mentioned Joni Mitchell to her and she said that she was a huge fan, too. Then, while walking with me down the hotel aisle, she started to sing "Carey" - the whole song with complete lyrics and in perfect style. moni ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #139 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? 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