From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #133 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 21 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 133 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni and cars ["Cynthia Vickery" ] Re: friends, njc [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Joni and cars ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni and cars [Deb Messling ] America's Cup (NJC) [Steve Dulson ] Re: Joni and cars ["Happy The Man" ] Re: politics NJC ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: war (njc) [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC ["gene mock" ] RE: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC ["Gillian Apter" ] Re: SUVs (njc) ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni and cars ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni and cars ["jeff t." ] Re: politics NJC [Randy Remote ] Pickin' on Joni [Randy Remote ] Re: e-bomb (njc) [Randy Remote ] Re: politics NJC [colin ] Joni and cars ["kerry" ] Swami's 2003 State of the Universe Address NJC ["Kate Bennett" ] Liberalism NJC [sl.m@shaw.ca] NJC Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC - Move over, Muller & Wally in Beantown - NJC [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall ["Lori Fye" ] Re: trying Joni only [Deb Messling ] Things I tried to ignore but couldn't #1(NJC) [Darice ] Re: just music - Dar Williams NJC [Scott Price ] Joni on CBC March 4 and 11 [Doug ] oops no NJC/ Just Dreaming GN&JM [BRIANASYMES@aol.com] Re Joni and cars-SUV's [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Joni on CBC March 4 and 11 [David Sadowski ] Things I tried to ignore but couldn't #2 (NJC) [Darice ] Re: Joni on CBC March 4 and 11 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: America's Cup (NJC) ["hell" ] Re: Cricket NJC ["hell" ] Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: NJC - Move over, Muller & Wally in Beantown [JRMCo1@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:08:23 -0600 From: "Cynthia Vickery" Subject: Re: Joni and cars <> "because elvis gave 'em cars you think i'm cheap..... you'd eat your young alive for a jaguar in the drive." cindy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:20:18 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: friends, njc Vince writes: << I will never be able to express my appreication enough to Laurent for several things that he has done for me that the JMDL will never know about >> I always loved the fact that Laurent took the time to welcome and thank a group of elderly WWII vets who were visiting France. I always meant to comment on that post, but got distracted and never mentioned it. --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:21:38 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: Joni and cars Sometimes Chickie had the car Or Ron had a car Or Lead Foot Melvin with his hot-wire head ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:33:34 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni and cars First he bought a 57 Biscayne He put it in a ditch - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/03 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:50:19 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: America's Cup (NJC) Anne wrote: >Even if you don't like to watch >sailing (which I suspect is 99% of you) Americans even think soccer is boring - even though it is much faster than American football (both in terms of action and length of game), so I imagine that they'd find a 2 or 3 hour sailing race excrutiating (sp?). Race 1 was fascinating in the "what could possibly go wrong next?" category, and race 2 was one of the most exciting, well-sailed races I've ever seen. Two boats separated by 7 seconds after an 18.5 mile race? Wow. Looking forward to race 4 this afternoon!!! Of course, for Hell's sake, I hope NZ wins at least one! :) - -- ######################################################## Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:56:59 -0600 From: "Happy The Man" Subject: Re: Joni and cars Night Ride Home ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:38:50 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: Re: politics NJC > I agree. As Jackson Browne sang, there are lives in the balance. > To carry on as if we're not tempting Amageddon is kind of like > fiddling as Rome burns. Yet we still have to carry on, regardless of what's going on with the Iraq situation, i.e. our lives here don't come to a halt all of the sudden. There's a difference between being aware, informed, and carrying on with your life and-- going about things as if none of this is going on. My post was more of an observation than anything else. It's interesting though...I never said anything about ignoring the war situation yet that seems to be the assumption, that anyone who doesn't want to have lengthy discussions about the situation on this discussion list must not be concerned or is in denial when that is most certainly not the case. Actually, teetering on the edge of such a precipice inspires me to live my life more fully, to enjoy the time I have, and to be more in tune with the people I interact with on a daily basis. I went over to a friend's house yesterday and we played a couple of games of scrabble and listened to some music (Sly & the Family Stone and Yes "Close to the Edge" to be specific.) We didn't mention Iraq once...though we did joke about President Bush being in Marietta. That doesn't mean we're ignorant of the situation. This list is just one small facet of each person who has a much larger identity offline. It's just interesting sometimes to step back and see how it has evolved. Victor in Decatur - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:53:28 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: war (njc) This may just be me,but I think part of it may be that we associate a "Joni Mitchell" discussion group with people having at least fairly liberal views.we get a little shocked at contrary views.I guess it's hard for us leftists to be as open minded as we could be sometimes in accepting other points of view,and also getting beyond the stereotype that most people here are liberal politically. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:00:40 -0800 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC thanks gillian, interesting read except for the fact we stopped being a manufacturing country years ago. we assemble many things here, but the manufacturing is done out of country. labor is cheaper not to mention the lack of benefits. we have become a country of consumers. the only exception is probably munitions---------so perhaps dr. harvey is correct. thanks again gene - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gillian Apter" To: "joni" Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 8:04 AM Subject: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC > I know some (or the silent majority?) are tired of all this back and forth > about the war (yes, it seems to be a a fait accompli already doesn't it?) but > I was sent this link about the possible "real reasons" behind the US > determination to go into Iraq with blazing saddles. > > I don't say I agree or disagree with this... I just found it fascinating > reading. Here's a quote:- > > "In a series of packed lectures in Oxford, Professor David Harvey, one of the > world's most distinguished geographers, has provided what may be the first > comprehensive explanation of the US government's determination to go to war. > His analysis suggests that it has little to do with Iraq, less to do with > weapons of mass destruction and nothing to do with helping the oppressed. > > The underlying problem the US confronts is the one which periodically afflicts > all successful economies: the over-accumulation of capital. Excessive > production of any good - be it cars or shoes or bananas - means that unless > new markets can be found, the price of that product falls and profits > collapse. Just as it was in the early 1930s, the US is suffering from > surpluses of commodities, manufactured products, manufacturing capacity and > money. Just as it was then, it is also faced with a surplus of labour, yet the > two surpluses, as before, cannot be profitably matched. This problem has been > developing in the US since 1973. It has now tried every available means of > solving it and, by doing so, maintaining its global dominance. The only > remaining, politically viable option is war. " > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,897766,00.html > > Peace > Gill (in Madrid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:03:46 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Bush's book collection I found this post at Shiny Monkey and thought of you. Just follow this link http://www.shinymonkey.net/2003_01_01_archives.php#90195891 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:29:59 -0600 From: "Donna Binkley" Subject: Re: Joni and cars First he bought a '57 Biscayne he put it in the ditch He drunk up all the rest that son of a bitch His blood's bad whiskey I was raised on robbery! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:25:41 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: RE: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC Yes, Gene, good point, and I wouldn't know whether to agree or not with Dr. Harvey, not having the facts myself. It just seemed yet to add yet another grain of sand into what seems to me to be extremely complex and "hidden agenda" heap of reasons to go into this war. cheers gill - ----- Original Message ----- From: gene mock To: Gillian Apter Cc: joni Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:00 PM Subject: Re: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC > thanks gillian, interesting read except for the fact we stopped being a > manufacturing country years ago. we assemble many things here, but the > manufacturing is done out of country. labor is cheaper not to mention the > lack of benefits. we have become a country of consumers. the only > exception is probably munitions---------so perhaps dr. harvey is correct. > thanks again gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gillian Apter" > To: "joni" > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 8:04 AM > Subject: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC > > > > I know some (or the silent majority?) are tired of all this back and forth > > about the war (yes, it seems to be a a fait accompli already doesn't it?) > but > > I was sent this link about the possible "real reasons" behind the US > > determination to go into Iraq with blazing saddles. > > > > I don't say I agree or disagree with this... I just found it fascinating > > reading. Here's a quote:- > > > > "In a series of packed lectures in Oxford, Professor David Harvey, one of > the > > world's most distinguished geographers, has provided what may be the first > > comprehensive explanation of the US government's determination to go to > war. > > His analysis suggests that it has little to do with Iraq, less to do with > > weapons of mass destruction and nothing to do with helping the oppressed. > > > > The underlying problem the US confronts is the one which periodically > afflicts > > all successful economies: the over-accumulation of capital. Excessive > > production of any good - be it cars or shoes or bananas - means that > unless > > new markets can be found, the price of that product falls and profits > > collapse. Just as it was in the early 1930s, the US is suffering from > > surpluses of commodities, manufactured products, manufacturing capacity > and > > money. Just as it was then, it is also faced with a surplus of labour, yet > the > > two surpluses, as before, cannot be profitably matched. This problem has > been > > developing in the US since 1973. It has now tried every available means of > > solving it and, by doing so, maintaining its global dominance. The only > > remaining, politically viable option is war. " > > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,897766,00.html > > > > Peace > > Gill (in Madrid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:30:33 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Randy Remotes post on politics,Jackson Browne plus admin and paperclips NJC i love jb's political songs...while i don't want to excuse jb of any possible wrongdoings i am not sure whether there was enough evidence to assume he was guilty...while this is no proof of his innocence, i read that the police report shows that he was the one who called the police & no charges were filed by or against him... lucy >>I am sure you all know the song. I have a few issues about Mr Browne's personality traits as reported in various journals but he rights a blindingly good song with those pugnacious fists!!!<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:30:37 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: trying Joni only NJC call me naive & stubbborn, but i am not willing to accept war as inevitable...& so, i have joined the moveon.org virtual march on washington headquarters which just so happens to be scheduled for my birthday! woohoo!...party on... so, peace activists, would you like to give me a birthday present? go to http://www.moveon.org/winwithoutwar/ & sign up! colin>> according to a friend in the uSA forces, March 2nd is when the bombing debra>>>Well that's crappy news, Colin! colin>> assuming it is true. ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:30:38 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: SUVs (njc) i have an old 93 ford explorer suv, but its a 2 door & fits in compact parking spaces...like colin, i like being higher & like anne i'd choose another for my next car but one with low emissions (& less bounce & roll overness) alas, for the forceable future i will have to be content with what i have but i hope by the time i can afford a new one they find a way to combine the new technology into small suvs... ps my friends have a prius & love it... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:30:39 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: Joni and cars bob >>There's a bunch of vehicles, to be sure. I'll add the car she's in with Klein when she's taking her "Night Ride Home", with the horse running alongside. Such beautiful romantic imagery in that song, matched by it's lovely melody. Muller says it's a standard in 50 years, and I'll have 'em all dammit! :~)<< cool, my cd should be out by in this time frame with this cover on it... ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:40:49 -0800 From: "jeff t." Subject: Re: Joni and cars HOSL has a car parked right on the cover. And inside Harry takes a taxi... Does this make me an incompetent lurker or what? Jeff _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:52:07 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: politics NJC I wasn't really aiming anything at you, Victor, your post just stimulated this response from me. You are right that there are lots of ways to respond, and living your life to the fullest, being kind to those around you, or just appreciating the sacredness of all living things are completely valid. But like colin, if there was NO discussion of this dangerous point in history, I would be worried. I'm not laying a guilt trip or assessment on those who choose not to participate in the discussion of impending war. If you don't want to talk about it, or would rather dwell on other things, fine. If you do, fine. RR np a low military jet flying over as I write this, skimming the treetops with a deafening roar, then the silence again. (we are on a flight training path, sometimes you can even see the pilots. And the bombs strapped to the bottom. Never makes me feel any safer to experience these war machines). Victor Johnson wrote: > > I agree. As Jackson Browne sang, there are lives in the balance. > > To carry on as if we're not tempting Amageddon is kind of like > > fiddling as Rome burns. > > Yet we still have to carry on, regardless of what's going on with the Iraq > situation, i.e. our lives here don't come to a halt all of the sudden. > There's a difference between being aware, informed, and carrying on with > your life and-- going about things as if none of this is going on. > > My post was more of an observation than anything else. It's interesting > though...I never said anything about ignoring the war situation yet that > seems to be the assumption, that anyone who doesn't want to have lengthy > discussions about the situation on this discussion list must not be > concerned or is in denial when that is most certainly not the case. > > Actually, teetering on the edge of such a precipice inspires me to live my > life more fully, to enjoy the time I have, and to be more in tune with the > people I interact with on a daily basis. > > I went over to a friend's house yesterday and we played a couple of games > of scrabble and listened to some music (Sly & the Family Stone and Yes > "Close to the Edge" to be specific.) We didn't mention Iraq once...though > we did joke about President Bush being in Marietta. That doesn't mean > we're ignorant of the situation. > > This list is just one small facet of each person who has a much larger > identity offline. It's just interesting sometimes to step back and see how > it has evolved. > > Victor in Decatur > > --- Victor Johnson > --- waytoblu@mindspring.com > Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson > > Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 > Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:55:03 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Pickin' on Joni I heard a bluegrass instrumental version of Woodstock on the radio this morning. Don't know if you have this one, Bob- it's from "Pickin' on CSN" (bluegrass versions of their songs). Good dobro. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:55:21 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) mike pritchard wrote: > All > this time I thought Saddam was a ruthless murdering tyrannical dictator and > now I discover he's a socialist. Geez, what next, Joni's a lesbian? > Mike, you didn't know? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:59:19 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: politics NJC Randy Remote wrote: >I wasn't really aiming anything at you, Victor, your post just >stimulated this response from me. You are right that there are >lots of ways to respond, and living your life to the fullest, being >kind to those around you, or just appreciating the sacredness >of all living things are completely valid. >But like colin, if there was NO discussion of this dangerous >point in history, I would be worried. > I would add that even those of us who write frequently still have time for a full life. I have lived a day at a time for a long while. the more i do it the more i get from life. As time passes, i realsie just how lucky i am to be alive and to have what i have. even tho the threat is stronger now, i still live life well. Of course what each of us considers a full life is different. I value my home life and my animals and my friendships and John and my ability to create adn equally my ability to communicate with others all over this world. they are the importnat things to me. Going out onthe town or whatever deosn't have any appeal for me now. whatever our love is, livign life to the full is the ebst way to go. this might be our last minute. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:13:18 -0600 From: "kerry" Subject: Joni and cars Anne wrote: >Car on a Hill >"I'm traveling in some vehicle" >"Sometimes change comes at you like a broadside >accident" >I'm sure there are more... Any takers on adding to this >list? "If you're driving into town..." "Young love was kissing under bridges, kissing in cars, kissing in cafes" "I pulled up behind a Cadillac" "Yellow schools of taxi fishes" "He sees the cars as sets of waves" Kerry Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:12:09 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Swami's 2003 State of the Universe Address NJC a humorous approach some might enjoy...go to http://www.wakeuplaughing.com/index.shtml some excerpts: >>You can worry about the government taking liberties with our liberties or you can say, "Life has become simpler! They've boiled the Bill of Rights down to just one: You have the right to remain silent."<< >>So I am not going to dwell on the negative. As my guru Harry Cohen Baba used to say, "Life is like photography ... we use the negative to develop." So let us look at the bright side.<< >>Do you know what the leading cause of terrorism is? It's seriousness. I'm serious. Think about it. Those people have no sense of humor. Otherwise how could they believe they will get to heaven by putting other people through hell? << ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:14:45 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Peter Tatchell NJC I've been surprised to see no discussion on the list about the brilliant (IMO) British gay rights campaigner, Peter Tatchell, and his efforts in Paris to arrest Robert Mugabe for human rights violations. Sorry to those who don't like the links, but here's another one for those who do: a good write-up of Tatchell in today's Independent, and also an outline of Tatchell's suggestion as an alternative to war in Iraq, which is the only one I've heard that could work. "Mr Tatchell, by the way, is way ahead of both hawks and doves in his own analysis of what should be done about Saddam Hussein. He rejects war, but dislikes the succour such a position gives to that dictator as well. He prescribes a regime-change-from-within strategy which involves funding satellite TV and radio stations to break Saddam's media censorship, and allow the co-ordination of the mounting of a campaign of civil resistance in the country. He advocates training and arming opposition forces in the no-fly zones in the north and south. In this way, he contends, a civilian and military rebellion would avoid the accusation of neo-imperialism and create conditions that would be likely to ensure a more stable and enduring democracy. This, of course, is the very scenario that the US backed away from when the last Gulf war ended." http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/deborah_orr/story.jsp?story=380116 Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:25:45 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: NJC - Move over, Muller & Wally in Beantown - NJC I have decided to join the Joni-onlies, like that trailblazer Bob Muller. So . . . I need a volunteer. Will someone please step forward and offer to forward to me any posts which may have Joni in Fiction content, but may have accidentally gotten the no-Joni tag? In other news, I have just gotten off the phone with Wally. We're going to meet at 10 PM in Boston tonight, so if your ears are ringing, you'll know who's talking about you! Have a great weekend, --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:30:19 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Pickin' on Joni In a message dated 2/21/2003 3:55:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, guitarzan@direcpc.com writes: > Don't know if you have this one, Bob- it's from "Pickin' > on CSN" (bluegrass versions of their songs). Good dobro. Thanks Randy...that one is great, it was included a couple of volumes ago. And very similar is Woodstock from EuroGrass, a European Bluegrass group (duh!) which is coming up on Volume 38. There are some really nice dobro Joni covers. Orville Johnson does "I Don't Know Where I Stand" & Doug Cox does "Circle Game", and you know there may be more... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:32:06 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: Joni and cars In a message dated 2/21/2003 3:30:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: > cool, my cd should be out by in this time frame with this > cover on it... That gives me the impetus to live to be 95, Kate! :~) NRH WOULD be nice to hear with your voice and songstyle. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:33:31 -0500 From: "Jerry Notaro" Subject: RE: Peter Tatchell NJC Thanks for posting this Sarah. He sounds like a very sensible man! Jerry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of sl.m@shaw.ca Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 5:15 PM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Peter Tatchell NJC I've been surprised to see no discussion on the list about the brilliant (IMO) British gay rights campaigner, Peter Tatchell, and his efforts in Paris to arrest Robert Mugabe for human rights violations. Sorry to those who don't like the links, but here's another one for those who do: a good write-up of Tatchell in today's Independent, and also an outline of Tatchell's suggestion as an alternative to war in Iraq, which is the only one I've heard that could work. "Mr Tatchell, by the way, is way ahead of both hawks and doves in his own analysis of what should be done about Saddam Hussein. He rejects war, but dislikes the succour such a position gives to that dictator as well. He prescribes a regime-change-from-within strategy which involves funding satellite TV and radio stations to break Saddam's media censorship, and allow the co-ordination of the mounting of a campaign of civil resistance in the country. He advocates training and arming opposition forces in the no-fly zones in the north and south. In this way, he contends, a civilian and military rebellion would avoid the accusation of neo-imperialism and create conditions that would be likely to ensure a more stable and enduring democracy. This, of course, is the very scenario that the US backed away from when the last Gulf war ended." http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/deborah_orr/story.jsp?s tory=380116 Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:33:58 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Liberalism NJC But I wonder who you're saying isn't liberal? Maybe you use the words differently in America. In Europe, liberalism is associated with a certain set of ideas that might be held by any member of the labour, liberal, environmentalist and conservative parties. There are conservative labour party activists, liberal conservatives, conservative environmentalists and so on. Many modern so-called conservatives are much more liberal than traditional leftwing labour activists. I see a lack of liberalism in some posts from jmdl members who would call themselves leftwing, and I see liberalism in posts from some people regarded as rightwing. The dialectic has moved beyond these terms so they're obselete and misleading, and they blind us to an individual's reasoning on any given point - they're prejudicial labels, anti-liberal in fact. Sarah At 2:53 PM -0500 02/21/2003, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: This may just be me,but I think part of it may be that we associate a "Joni Mitchell" discussion group with people having at least fairly liberal views.we get a little shocked at contrary views.I guess it's hard for us leftists to be as open minded as we could be sometimes in accepting other points of view ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:41:46 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: NJC Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall In a message dated 2/21/2003 10:54:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, jrgoodspeed@yahoo.com writes: > Oh no, Bob - were you thinking of jumping ship all > together? Yes...but knowing the people here as I do, I continue to hold out hope that it can return to something that holds more interest for me. Joni-only works really well, all we need is a bit more conversation. Besides, my covers project keeps me involved. > Did you say you were thinking of coming up north for > Wall to Wall Joni. I'm thinking of going too. I'm > curious, is anybody else making the trip to the big > apple for the free show? I AM planning on making the trip, and am very much looking forward to it! Very excited to hear that Joan Osborne is onboard! I noticed too that it's being webcast...would it be possible for this audio to be recorded, I wonder? Looking forward to seeing you in a month or so, Jenny! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:46:02 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Move over, Muller & Wally in Beantown - NJC In a message dated 2/21/2003 4:25:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, Murphycopy writes: > I have decided to join the Joni-onlies, like that > trailblazer Bob Muller. Damn - we got us the making of a gen-yoo-wine movement! (And no I'm not referring to the one you left at the base of the tree at the Full Moon! :~) Give Wally a big "HEY" from SC! Bob PS: Sorry my first post to you as a fellow J-only is an NJC! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:50:35 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall Bob wrote: > Joni-only works really well, all we need is a bit more conversation. Can somebody, anybody, please start a JC thread?? I tried with "Joni on war" but it hasn't caught on (I guess I can understand why). That has evolved into "Joni on cars" which is fun but will have only so much mileage. Would any of the new folks care to start a dissection of some of Joni's more "cryptic" lyrics? (Please? I don't want Bob to leave!) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:53:40 -0500 From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: just music njc Dar Williams is in my town tonight at a free record store performance I do love her songs they do belong to the Joni School. Ben Taylor will be here next week at the same place so the past posts have perked my interest "Its a Beautiful day" is also coming to town. I will always remember the Hitch hiking Journey back in the Mid 70's to Bolinas, California to see where Richard Brautigan lived And I was picked up by two Blonde's in a VW beetle from Mill Valley on the Coast HighWay with incredible Music coming out of the speakers I aked them who the band was and thet said in Stereo "Its a Beautiful Day" It certainly was.They dropped me off at the intersection of the road to Bolinas I asked them were the directional sign was, they told me the resident's allway took it down to keep the town a secret. Loraine Gervais Blue Motel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:56:53 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Move over, Muller & Wally in Beantown - NJC Muller writes: << PS: Sorry my first post to you as a fellow J-only is an NJC! >> And if I get any more NJC from now on I am going to scream louder than any Joni-only ever has before! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:04:55 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Another thought on Joni content Several years ago the JMDL had a writer's contest. I think the only real "rule" was that the composition had to incorporate Joni in some fashion - does anyone remember if there was a limit on length? Anyway, in the interest of reviving JC on the list, who's up for it? Lori ~ http://lrfye.lunarpages.com ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:25:25 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: trying Joni only Fuinny you should mention this; I won the Nobel Prize for mathematics! It was a great party. Good to have you back, Mark. Your contributions to the list have always been positive. At 10:40 PM 2/20/03 -0800, you wrote: >Deb Messling winning the Nobel Prize - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Deb Messling -^..^- messling@enter.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.445 / Virus Database: 250 - Release Date: 1/21/03 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:04:25 -0800 (PST) From: Darice Subject: Things I tried to ignore but couldn't #1(NJC) Lucy, Thank you for the kind words about Jackson Browne's writing....but your statement about his "personality traits as reported in various journals" and hie "pugnacious fists" , struck me, as these statements always do, a blow. Rahter than re-hash the controversy ( and ruffle even more feathers than discussing war, Saddam, or the lack of intellectuals on the West Coast),please reply to me off-list, if you are interested in the other side of the story "reported" in various journals. darice@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:30:01 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: jonifest sweater njc In a message dated 21/02/2003 18:14:20 GMT Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: > > > From: colin > > > It has been 6months now since the last Fest. The winner of the sweater > has not contacted me. i had to write and ask someone who had won it. It > doesn't bother me that the sweater is not wanted. What bothers me is the > lack of respect in not even letting me know you won it and that you > didn't want it. > Of course, i could be way out line and you have been icapacitated since > the day of the raffle..... > Hey Colin, I can't believe my luck! Didn't anyone tell you I was first reserve for the sweater? I say, give the real winner a couple more weeks to stake their claim then I'll send you my measurements :) No really, incapacitated or not, if you won the sweater, you are one lucky person, and should by now be wearing a designer label garment which would make you the envy of your friends. I've seen them and they are really lovely quality. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:34:39 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC thanks gill, the article you mention ends with the following information: "Strategic thinkers in the US have been planning this next stage of expansion for years. Paul Wolfowitz, now deputy secretary for defence, was writing about the need to invade Iraq in the mid-1990s." from http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,897766,00.html this is something brenda (whose intelligence & thoughtfulness i surely miss here) mentioned quite a few months ago when she wrote: "I am not anti-war. However this war is NOT a defense of democracy. It is about domination. If you doubt that, read the "Defense Planning for Guidance" documents produced by the Office of the Secretary of Defense in 1992 (Cheney) and 2002 (Rumsfeld - basically Cheney by proxy) and the "Defense Strategy for the 1990's" also written by Cheney. I also recommend reading Rumsfeld's "Transforming the Military" published in the May/June issue of Foreign Affairs. This war is not another front in the war on terrorism; it is the culmination of a plan many years old." ******************************************** Kate Bennett: www.katebennett.com Sponsored by Polysonics/Atlantis Sound Labs Over the Moon- "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic" All Music Guide ******************************************** "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world, indeed it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:40:30 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Rose Polenzani (NJC) She's fabulous, and she's got a new tour schedule! http://www.rosepolenzani.com/tourschedule/ Lori, thinking about going to the show in Vienna, VA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:41:43 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: just music - Dar Williams NJC At 04:53 PM 2/21/2003 -0500, BRIANASYMES@aol.com wrote: >Dar Williams is in my town tonight at a free record store performance Brian, Aren't you in Portland (OR)? Please call the venue before heading out...I believe Dar's appearance there is scheduled for Friday, Feb. 28, 2003. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:40:43 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Joni on CBC March 4 and 11 CBC Life and Times has finally updated their schedule http://cbc.ca/lifeandtimes/mitchell.html A Woman of Heart and Mind: The Life and Times of Joni Mitchell Joni Mitchell is one of the foremost singer/songwriters and poets of our time. Her eclectic and unique body of work still touches us today as much as it did three decades ago. She has also led an equally fascinating and inspiring personal life. In this two-part, two-hour documentary, Mitchell takes us on an intimate biographical journey. She speaks in-depth about her life as a songwriter/musician/painter, and the inspiration she derives from the joy and pain shes experienced over several decades in the public eye. The program includes rare interviews with her friends and musical peers, and is highlighted by never-before-seen film performance footage and photographs. Joni Mitchell, A Woman of Heart and Mind delves into Mitchells roots in Saskatoon - an inspiration for many of her songs. The documentary also includes exclusive interviews with well-known artists and executives in the music industry, including David Crosby, Graham Nash, David Geffen, singer/songwriter Stephen Stills. The documentary also includes rarely seen footage of Mitchell performing in Greenwich Village in 1967, and footage from 1972 of Mitchell, Jackson Browne, Mama Cass and the early Eagles at an impromptu party. Mitchell also reveals how she came to write the now famous Woodstock - the anthem for her generation. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:42:55 -0500 From: BRIANASYMES@aol.com Subject: oops no NJC/ Just Dreaming GN&JM Please forgive me for the lack of the NJC tag on the last post. If James and Carly has such a sweet sounding boy I was kinda dreaming about how a child of Graham Nash and Joni would sound like. Unknown I missed that kiss Still dreaming of a night of love long ago that might of brought a wet child's kiss unsought "I Love You" in a high innocent voice and reading The Little Prince till you fall asleep. NP Oscar Peterson "China Town" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:45:08 EST From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re Joni and cars-SUV's Joni drives a Black Lexus SUV, so do I, and I love it... I know if some crazy person comes at me I stand a better chance of winning as if anyone does. Joni learned that from DED Days, I believe she was in a maroon and black Rolls Royce. When she goes to Saskatoon she rents one to 4-wheel around in. I heard you screaming down the mountain Like you were running red lights (Red lights) You had some trash-can rock band pounding Peace Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:49:10 -0600 From: David Sadowski Subject: Re: Joni on CBC March 4 and 11 Is there some way that fans in the US will be able to watch this? Doug wrote: >CBC Life and Times has finally updated their schedule > >http://cbc.ca/lifeandtimes/mitchell.html > >A Woman of Heart and Mind: The Life and Times of Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:34:57 -0800 (PST) From: Darice Subject: Things I tried to ignore but couldn't #2 (NJC) I am amazed that the listmembers who have had such a problem with generalizations of the American people, and who object to labeling or boxing others, have not responded to the idea that those of us who live on the West Coast, especially in California, are not as intellectual as those of us who reside in the Northeast, and NYC. And as that statement seems to be founded on one person's experience in LA makes it even more offensive. I feel (note that!!!) (I am speaking of MY feelings and repsonses to that statement), as if I (and the millions of others on this coast)have been marginalized by not only the first post, but the lack of response to it by others on the list. Have you heard of UC Berkeley and the Free Speech movement? Stanford, UCLA (where AL Gore now teaches a class), and other great colleges and universities? I attended UCLA where Angela Davis was a teacher and her mentor Herbert Marcuse taught at UC San Diego. (Davis was fired by then-governor Reagan becuase she was a member of the Communist Party.) I feel (there's that word again) as if I have been "labeled" a bleached blonde, bubble-headed surfer girl lying in the sun, while the others (more highly evolved) of the species migrate to the East Coast to offer their political "advice" to the rest of the world. In California (and I thought in the US), one of the great freedoms was freedom of speech. And one of the great joys was discussion and the exchange of information. The myriad viewpoints of the people who comprise the United States, with the wealth of different cultures, is our strength. I am deeeply offended by that statement which has been largely ignored by those on the list who have been so vocal on other subjects lately. Darice ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:04:21 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: trying Joni only NJC Debra wrote: > The only tidbit I know about on your very funny list is that the new > season of Six Feet Under starts on March 2 (probably not news to you > since you're a fan). That's a bright spot. It may even lead to some > posts that are not of the, very simply put, "to bomb or not to bomb" variety. And welcome back Mark, from me too! Another little bit of SFU trivia. I was watching the movie "In And Out" (Kevin Klein, Joan Cusack etc.) the other day, and realised that one of his students is played by Lauren Ambrose! A very different role to the one she plays on SFU! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:14:20 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on CBC March 4 and 11 In a message dated 2/21/2003 5:49:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, dsadowski@ameritech.net writes: > Is there some way that fans in the US will be able to watch > this? I'm sure some bodaciously good soul will tape it and we can tree it, David. Or maybe a bunch of good souls. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:17:51 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: America's Cup (NJC) Steve wrote: > Americans even think soccer is boring - even though it is much > faster than American football (both in terms of action and > length of game), so I imagine that they'd find a 2 or 3 hour > sailing race excrutiating (sp?). I must admit, I don't really get much out of watching the sailing on TV - it IS kind of boring at times! But it's a different story out on the water. I went out twice last year, and it's incredible watching these enormous yachts up close. The way the team manouvre them, you'd think they were handling a tiny one-man sea-kayak! > Race 1 was fascinating in the "what could possibly go wrong next?" > category, and race 2 was one of the most exciting, well-sailed > races I've ever seen. Two boats separated by 7 seconds after an > 18.5 mile race? Wow. Looking forward to race 4 this afternoon!!! Yeah, it's been a sad story so far, especially as they've been so close. Race 4 is today, and Race 5 tomorrow - let's just hope we need a Race 6, 7, 8 and (possibly) 9! > Of course, for Hell's sake, I hope NZ wins at least one! :) That would be nice! Although Russell Coutts is undefeated in America's Cup racing (13 races so far, I think) which must play a part psychologically, as well. Anne wrote: > I hope they rally for the next race, but it really does > look like Alinghi is going to take the Cup. Just > curious for those in that part of the world - I hear > there quite the furor about the six on Alinghi from NZ. > What's the scoop? There has been a LOT of talk about this, and I don't know the intimate details. But in a nutshell, Russell Coutts and Brad Butterworth apparently agreed to stay with Team New Zealand, then "defected" to the Swiss team. There's been a lot of bad feeling about their "unpatriotic" behaviour, etc. which I find pretty stupid, personally. We don't mind when people come here from other countries - a prime example is Irene Van Dyk, who came here from South Africa, and was immediately selected for the NZ netball team, after playing for SA. Of course it's not quite that simple, but Alinghi have had to endure some very unsporting behaviour from some moronic Kiwis (booing etc. as they leave for racing). Whatever their motives for leaving (financial, or whatever) it means there are more Kiwis out there in the racing world, and that can't be a bad thing! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:22:52 +1300 From: "hell" Subject: Re: Cricket NJC Azeem wrote: > Are the Kiwi team under the impression that they've come to the world amateur > boxing championships?? Well, since Cairns was hit from behind, I don't think he can be held responsible! Apparently they were standing outside a nightclub in Durban, and were asked if they were from NZ. When the replied in the affirmative, Cairns got clobbered - which I suspect had something to do with their refusal to play in Kenya. Which is silly, because Kenya got the points anyway! Hell ___________________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman Hell's Home Page - NEW & IMPROVED! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:21:08 -0500 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall In a message dated 2/21/2003 4:50:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, lrfye@lrfye.lunarpages.com writes: > (Please? I don't want Bob to leave!) Aw...Lori, you're a sweetie! But you see, the real criteria is this...I have this pistol, and every Sunday I aim it at the streetlight, through the door...the day I hit - that's the day I'll leave. ;~) Bob NP: War, "All Day Music" (I absolutely cannot get enough of this record) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:58:17 -0500 From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: NJC - Move over, Muller & Wally in Beantown Before you expiate yourself in Joni-Only-ville, Smurf, I've been meaning to mention the passages re: SIQUOMB in Nick Hornsby relatively new tome entitled _Songbook_. You may recall that Hornsby also penned _High Fidelity_ and _About a Boy_, and is a ardent Joni admirer who makes mention of her in most all his prose. I can type out the mentions and send them to you, at your request. Most of it talks about how much he loves _Blue_. It occurs to me that the book is actually non-fiction. Does that preclude it, dude? - -Julius ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #133 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)