From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) To: joni-digest@smoe.org Subject: JMDL Digest V2003 #132 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Unsubscribe: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/joni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com JMDL Digest Friday, February 21 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 132 Sign up now for JoniFest 2003! http://www.jonifest.com ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- American hegemony, was e-bomb (njc) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: e-bomb (njc) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: American hegemony (njc) ["kakki" ] Re: American hegemony (njc) [sl.m@shaw.ca] Re: trying Joni only NJC [dsk ] Re: trying Joni only NJC [colin ] RE: Randy Remotes post on politics,Jackson Browne plus admin and paperclips NJC ["Lucy Hone" ] Re: trying Joni only NJC [colin ] Re: e-bomb (njc) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: e-bomb (njc) ["mike pritchard" ] Re: Joni on war [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: trying Joni only [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: e-bomb (njc) [AzeemAK@aol.com] RE: what day is it? njc ["Victor Johnson" ] Re: what day is it? njc [Catherine McKay ] Re: Re: politics NJC [Catherine McKay ] Ones & Zeroes [Thomas Ross ] Cricket NJC [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: e-bomb (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: e-bomb (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: trying Joni only (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: politics NJC ["Lori Fye" ] Re: Joni on war [vince ] very njc protesting via internet [vince ] Re: e-bomb (njc) [vince ] SUVs (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] NZ (njc) [anne@sandstrom.com] Joni and cars [anne@sandstrom.com] Re: SUVs (njc) [colin ] Re: Joni and cars [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] John Martyn, njc ["Laurent Olszer" ] Re: deb talan NJC [Jenny Goodspeed ] friends, njc ["Lavieri, Vince [185776]" ] Re: John Martyn, njc [colin ] jonifest sweater njc [colin ] Re: what day is it? njc ["Scott and Jody" ] Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall [Jenny Goodspeed ] Re: Joni and cars [KJHSF@aol.com] Re: SUVs (njc) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall (NJC) ["Lori Fye" ] Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall (NJC) [colin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:14:01 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: American hegemony, was e-bomb (njc) Kakki, I wonder if you've ever heard of an old British movie called Thunder Rock? I haven't seen it for years - it's a black and white 1940s propaganda film against isolationism, but very good, starring Michael Redgrave as a war correspondent. He gets fed up with war in the same way you're describing and goes off to become a lighthouse keeper, and withdraws physically and psychologically, to the point of not even going into the office to pick up his paychecks -- he just stays in his lighthouse, away from the world. One night he's visited by a number of ghosts. They are people who died in a shipwreck in that area one hundred years previously, and who don't realize they are dead. They start telling him about their lives - they were all travelling from England to America, and each had their own personal reason, but it all boiled down to escape, a desire to get away from life. One of them is a suffragette, an upper class woman from London, who's left unable to find anyone to marry her (a disaster in those days) because of her political activities, being sent to jail etc, have made her unacceptable in the kind of society she was born into. So she decides, against all her political judgement, to go to Utah and become the second wife of a Mormon. She has no other means of income, no skills to find work, restricted legal rights as a woman at that time. The lighthouse keeper argues with her that she mustn't do this, mustn't turn her face away from life, and he does the same one by one with all the passengers. I can't remember how it ends, except that he ends up persuading himself that he has to leave his lighthouse and go write about the war again, because it's reality. This was British government propaganda that Britain had to keep on fighting, though it would have been easy to give up and let Hitler be other people's problem. I agree it must be dispiriting to have the world ranged against you for doing something that everyone will benefit from, if George Bush is right i.e. if the invasion leads to disarmament with minimal loss of life (a big if in many people's minds, granted). And also dispiriting that many of the allies are asking for a lot of money/deals. I read that Turkey has been promised 25 billion dollars. I don't think Americans want to be kings of the world as such, but they want to have influence, and that means having to "interfere", and then when you're the biggest, most powerful entity involved in a problem, you end up getting the blame for it. And you also represent capitalism, corporate power, individual liberty, big ideas - all things bin Laden was hitting out at when he attacked the WTC. Imagine a guy moves into a street and he's got the biggest car, the biggest house, the best educated kids etc etc - he can either keep himself to himself and then everyone will be suspicious and think he's stuck up, or he can throw lots of parties, hand the largesse around, in which case some people will like him, others (not invited) will try to disrupt things, but everyone will resent him because he's in a position to buy their friendship. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sarah At 11:54 PM -0800 02/20/2003, kakki wrote: >I think it's more of just weariness of having to be on the front end >of these conflicts so often and taking all the backlash for it. >Everyone I talk to is so fed up with it all. No one has the wish >for the US to be the great leader or be the most powerful. If world >opinion or consensus is so much against the US, why should it >continue to put itself out on the line? Look at so many of the >countries that say they will help the US with Iraq. Yet they all >want huge pay-offs or deals first to assist us. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:30:06 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) >>Places like Iran would love to see the Saudi people overthrow the monarchy and become an Islamic fundamentalist state. But so would countries like Syria and Iraq, not because they care about the Islamic side of things, but because they are socialist states and want to see the monarchy overthrown.<< Socialist states? By what definition is Iraq a socialist state? Socialist like the UK under Tony Blair? Socialist like Chile before September 11 1973? All this time I thought Saddam was a ruthless murdering tyrannical dictator and now I discover he's a socialist. Geez, what next, Joni's a lesbian? mike in bcn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:45:12 -0800 From: "kakki" Subject: Re: American hegemony (njc) > I wonder if you've ever heard of an old British movie called > Thunder Rock? No, I haven't heard of it. It sounds like a good film (even if it was used as propaganda ;-) > Imagine a guy moves into a street and he's got the biggest car, the > biggest house, the best educated kids etc etc - he can either keep > himself to himself and then everyone will be suspicious and think > he's stuck up, or he can throw lots of parties, hand the largesse > around, in which case some people will like him, others (not invited) > will try to disrupt things, but everyone will resent him because he's > in a position to buy their friendship. Damned if you do, damned if > you don't. GREAT analogy! Hits it right on the head. I'm copying Randy here (to save time) - there are a number of news articles on the net which describe the Saudi's investment of around $750 Billion in the US. Can't find another article regarding a Saudi Sheik's huge investment in AOL/Time Warner (which also owns CNN) but I know there are stories out there on it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 02:58:32 -0700 From: sl.m@shaw.ca Subject: Re: American hegemony (njc) Hi Kakki and Randy, two stories about Saudi investment in AOL Time-Warner. http://www.zdnet.com.au/newstech/news/story/0,2000025345,20106683,00.htm http://www.mideastinsight.org/01_02/alwaleed.html Sarah At 12:45 AM -0800 02/21/2003, kakki wrote: >Can't find another article regarding a Saudi Sheik's huge investment >in AOL/Time Warner (which also owns CNN) but I know there are >stories out there on it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 04:05:08 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: trying Joni only NJC Hi Mark, Welcome back! I'm so glad you're feeling better! And that you're enjoying T'log. Feelings here ranged from "I've listened once, suffered greatly through it, and am selling this dreck immediately" to "I love it, it's fantastic, it's the best Joni's ever done", with most reactions somewhere in between. My own feeling after a couple of listens was "nice, especially when I'm trying to go to sleep." Your reaction to want to explore Joni all over again is a very positive one. T'log did make me realize again the beauty of her lyrics and just what a rich body of work she's created, something I can easily take for granted. You'll probably have lots of time to rest these days while on joni-only ("Covers" Bob is there taking naps) because there's a lot of NJCing now on the joni-and-everything-else list. At least these days the discussions are mostly about the upcoming war in Iraq. Not surprising considering what's happening in the world. (Sorry, you missed the recent circumcision discussion.) The only tidbit I know about on your very funny list is that the new season of Six Feet Under starts on March 2 (probably not news to you since you're a fan). That's a bright spot. It may even lead to some posts that are not of the, very simply put, "to bomb or not to bomb" variety. It's good to have you back, Mark. Oh, and there is a re-release of Ethel Merman doing disco, or at least that's how I understood it... yes, I know. My mind is boggled by that, too. atb, Debra Shea Mark or Travis wrote: > > Hello people! He's ba-ack! > > I've been listening to Travelogue alot in my car lately, getting > familiar with it and really falling in love with it. Some parts work > better than others but overall I think it hangs together pretty well. > It's a wonderful re-interpretation and expansion of some fantastic > songs. That's what I think anyway. > > Tonight I loaded 'Blue', 'Court and Spark', 'Hejira' and 'Wild Things > Run Fast' into my cd wallet. Travelogue is making me want to explore > Joni all over again!... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:46:51 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: trying Joni only NJC dsk wrote: > >The only tidbit I know about on your very funny list is that the new >season of Six Feet Under starts on March 2 > according to a friend in the uSA forces, March 2nd is when the bombing starts...... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:50:52 -0000 From: "Lucy Hone" Subject: RE: Randy Remotes post on politics,Jackson Browne plus admin and paperclips NJC The Jackson Brown song that "does it for me" about all these world Issues, and underlines your posting........(I hope I got your words..it gets complicated when you are answering to someone who has copied bits on from other mails.....) Anyway they were......... ......^I agree. As Jackson Browne sang, there are lives in the balance. To carry on as if we're not tempting Amageddon is kind of like fiddling as Rome burns.^....... but the song is "How Long" I type from memory the particulary pertinant verses "When you look into a child's face And you're seeing the human race The endless possibilities there Where so much can come true And you think of the beautifual things a child can do" "when you think of the money spent one defence by each governement And the weapons of destruction we build we're so sure that we need And you think of the millions, and millions That money could feed...... How long can you hear someone crying How long can you see people dying before you ask yourself why And how ling will we hhear people speaking About missiles for peace, and just let it go by How long will they tell us these weapons are keeping us free Its a lie....." I am sure you all know the song. I have a few issues about Mr Browne's personality traits as reported in various journals but he rights a blindingly good song with those pugnacious fists!!! It is a beautiful day here and I have just returned from the beach with the dog and he is snoring at my feet and I have tons of admin to do today.. I hate paperwork... Every time I think about having to get on with the paperwork..... the MOnty Python Sketch where Mr Melluish comes in and says "Morning Enid" ... in a nasal voice and she replies in an equally nasal voice "Morning Mr Mellhuish" and he says "Paperclips arrived yet" and she says "Yesssss" and he says "gooooood" springs to mind....... Ah well.... I will just crank up the music and ignore the phone!!! Good things to all of you Lucy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 04:58:01 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: trying Joni only NJC colin wrote: > > dsk wrote: > > >The only tidbit I know about on your very funny list is that the new > >season of Six Feet Under starts on March 2 > > according to a friend in the uSA forces, March 2nd is when the bombing > starts...... Well that's crappy news, Colin! Jeez, just when I thought there was a simple pleasure to be found somewhere. Now wondering if I can fit in seeing the show before doing the duct tape thing... Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:01:01 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: trying Joni only NJC dsk wrote: >colin wrote: > > >>dsk wrote: >> >> >> >>>The only tidbit I know about on your very funny list is that the new >>>season of Six Feet Under starts on March 2 >>> >>> >>according to a friend in the uSA forces, March 2nd is when the bombing >>starts...... >> >> > >Well that's crappy news, Colin! > assuming it is true. > Jeez, just when I thought there was a >simple pleasure to be found somewhere. Now wondering if I can fit in >seeing the show before doing the duct tape thing... > i don't think ww3 is going to be sudeen or mean nukes flying all over. i think it will,be a gradula heigthening of barbaraity on all sides, with reapeats of spet 11th on a regualr basis.perhaps chemical and biological. all out nukes would be quicker and easier on everyone..... > >Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:03:06 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) Sarah wrote >>And it's America that keeps vetoing attempts to get Israel to stick to UN resolutions, and this is something that really upsets the Arab world - why sanctions are imposed against them (or even invasion) for ignoring UN resolutions, yet nothing happens to Israel for doing the same.<< kakki replied >>I'm not clear on all of that. The only thing I have heard is that the US has protested trying Sharon as a war criminal. << now m(ik)e There is ample evidence to support Sarah's statement. Here are some examples. In 1985 Israel bombed Tunis, in an attempt to kill Arafat. This was done with the full knowledge (and passive collusion) of the US govt (George Shultz) and military. The US abstained from a UN Security Council condemnation of the 'act of armed aggression' in 'flagrant violation of the Charter of the UN, international norms of conduct'. UN resolution 242 regarding a two-state solution to the middle east conflict, has often been rejected (vetoed) by the US and Israel against otherwise unanimous agreement. The World Court determined that the US was guilty of 'unlawful use of force' in Nicaragua and violation of treaties, ordering Washington to terminate its international terrorist crimes and pay substantial reparations. The US dismissed the court ruling 'with contempt', and escalated the violence there. Nicaragua appealed to the Security Council and the US vetoed the Court decision calling for all states to observe international law. The US voted alone, or with Israel or other individual 'client states' on many other similar resolutions. Another UN General Assembly resolution on terrorism and the right to self-determination of the majority black population against the South African apartheid regime received only two votes against: Israel and the USA. Honduras abstained and ALL other countries supported the resolution (153 to 2). In 1985 the General Assembly voted 124 to 1in favour of a South Atlantic zone of Peace and 94 to 3 calling on the US to stop attacking Nicaragua. In the latter vote the US was joined by Israel and El Salvador ('a client state' in Chomsky's opinion). Between 1980 and 1985 the US vetoed 27 votes in the UN, in comparison with 15 vetoes throughout its history. Often Israel joined the US. December 1987 - UN General Assembly debated its major resolution condemning international terrorism, opposed only by Israel and the US. December 1990 - UN General Assembly vote affirming national rights of Palestine (144 to 2). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 11:27:38 +0100 From: "mike pritchard" Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) Sarah wote >>To give two examples: it's because of the support for Israel of American Jews that no American administration will cut the aid given to Israel. Without that aid (Laurent, tell me if I'm wrong here), Israel could not sustain itself economically.<< before 1967, Israel received the highest per capita aid from the US of any country (virtually the whole of Israel's investment). 1978-82 - Israel received 48% of US military aid 1978-82 - Israel received 35% of US economic aid 1983 - Reagan's aid budget was $ 8.1Billion, Israel got $2.5 of this. "Israel's internal economy and social structure are coming to resemble that of its patron, with growing inequality and the collapse of the social support systems. One grave internal problem is the cost - economic, social and cultural - of sustaining a large and growing ultra-religious (Haredi) population, which draws heavily on educational and and welfare programs but contributes little to the economy...If the tendencies persist they will "make Israel's welfare system insolvent and bankrupt municipalities with large ultra-religious populations...With the religious population doubling every 17 years "economic bankruptcy is imminent". None of the above should be interpreted as critical of US aid or the Israeli culture or economy (coming to the aid of a friend is an admirable act), they are just some facts (taken from Chomsky's Fateful triangle) dealing with Sarah's statement. mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:32:02 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on war In a message dated 2/21/2003 2:46:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, KJHSF@aol.com writes: > This is where she met Killer Kyle from The Beat of > Black Wings. And also the soldier who sends her medals in "Cactus Tree". It seems to me that she chronicles war as it affects people > > personally which is part of the beauty of her writing. Very astute observation, Ken...I think that the fact that her Dad was in the service plays into that a bit too - she has a certain amount of compassion & understanding for the enlisted man. Great post...I can easily hear her saying the line you gave her. Bob NP: Pat Valentine, "Chelsea Morning" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:42:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: trying Joni only In a message dated 2/21/2003 1:40:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: > Hello people! He's ba-ack! YAY! I'm very excited to see you back, Mark, and even happier to hear of your improved health. Like Deb says, I switched to J-only a couple weeks back, and it's been a real sanity-saver. Your voice has been missed. > > Travelogue is making me want to explore > Joni all over again! Well, that's a good thing! I'm never too far away from some Joni whether it's her studio stuff, concerts, or covers. Travelogue doesn't annoy me the way BSN does, but it doesn't really generate a lot of heat either. Maybe if SHE were doing more to promote it I would feel better about it. > > Bob Muller's backside > Surely THIS topic has been talked out! :~) But just in case my cute little tushie does pop up in the conversation, PLEASE GOD use the NJC - I don't wanna know about it! :~) Thanks for signing back on, Mark...another reason for me to stick around, which I was looking for. Bob NP: Karin Allyson, "Blue Motel Room" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:14:21 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) In a message dated 21/02/2003 04:57:52 GMT Standard Time, kakkib@vzavenue.net writes: << But why has Saddam always been the target? Why did Clinton bomb Iraq relentlessly during his administration without either UN or Congressional approval? >> The answer that springs to mind is because the US has always known that it could kick Iraq's arse in a war - Iraq was and remains a pushover, one indication of which is the almost laughable disparity in the numbers of fatalities on the two sides in the last gulf war. Bill Hicks was brilliant about this, check out his "Relentless" show. This would also explain why the US hasn't lifted a finger against India, Pakistan or North Korea - hang on a sec, these countries could get their nukes out. India and Pakistan have been loudly trumpeting their nukes (which I think count as weapons of mad destruction) for some time, not to mention engaging in highly provocative sabre-rattling. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad no wars are started or invasions launched. Apart from anything else, half my family lives in Pakistan. They are all wondering when they will be added to the hit-list of the "Axis of Evil" - was ever a more ludicrous phrase used as virtual foreign policy?? Azeem in London NP: Beth Gibbons & Rustin Man - Out of Season ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 6:30:59 -0800 From: "Victor Johnson" Subject: RE: what day is it? njc \> > The hell with all this politics, it's my feckin 50th Birthday!!!duh > U r toast Jimmy!!! LMAO WHooooooooHOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Happy Birthday! Victor - --- Victor Johnson - --- waytoblu@mindspring.com Visit http://www.cdbaby.com/victorjohnson Look for the new album "Parsonage Lane" in March 2003 Produced by Chris Rosser at Hollow Reed Studios ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:52:27 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: what day is it? njc --- RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > The hell with all this politics, it's my feckin 50th > Birthday!!!duh > U r toast Jimmy!!! LMAO > Good for you, Rosie - happy frikkin' birthday! ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:01:04 -0500 (EST) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Re: politics NJC --- hell wrote: > Azeem wrote: > > > Someone put it brilliantly recently (Catherine, > was it?): there are > > specialist discussion groups for each and every > subject that comes up > > on these pages; but I want to talk about stuff > with THIS group of > > people, my cyber-friends and acqaintances, as > these are people I care > > about and share a common bond with. Azeem, it wasn't me. I'm never that brilliant. And I usually don't read the political/war posts. If I did want to, I'm sure I'd rather discuss it with you lot. I'm with Hell on this - discussing politics just isn't my cuppa tea. ===== Catherine Toronto ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:13:22 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Ross Subject: Ones & Zeroes check out Bryan's album altogether! yes indeed! Tom Ross Mijazi Music (518) 372-2611 http://www.tom.rossweb.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:26:56 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Cricket NJC In a message dated 21/02/2003 01:32:42 GMT Standard Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << Oooh, I'm not sure I'd go that far! We did amazingly well against South Africa (commiserations, Ron) and our Top 6 spot is looking a little more likely, but I'm not sure I'd put money on us to win! I would consider Sri Lanka or Australia a safer bet (much as I hate to admit it)! >> With apologies to any Aussies reading this... Please God, someone else please win the world cup!! It's more than we poor Brits can bear, not content with hammering us in the Ashes series and now even their football (soccer) team is beating us - won't someone else take the cricket crown and keep them honest?? Are the Kiwi team under the impression that they've come to the world amateur boxing championships?? Azeem in gloriously sunny London, about to venture out for a stroll on Hampstead Heath NP: Kate St John - Second Sight - this is such a gorgeous record, I've been listening to it a lot in the last few months. She's virtually invented a new genre: chamber pop chanson! Some great lyrics too. "Don't rely on the pain of love's open wounds to bring meaning to your life" (from My Lonely Love) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:05:43 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) > Geez, what next, Joni's a lesbian? Well, one can dream, can't one? ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:08:51 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) Mike wrote: > The World Court determined that the US was guilty of 'unlawful use of > force' in Nicaragua and violation of treaties The U.S. violated treaties? Surely you jest! Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:13:55 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: trying Joni only (NJC) Mark! So good to *see* you again!! You've been missed!!! Regarding "the Lori Fye Annual Marathon," it may very well become annual (the next Mardi Gras Marathon is Feb 29, 2004 - heads up, folks). Here's how this year's turned out for me: http://www.mail-archive.com/joni@jmdl.com/msg28865.html Lori, who wishes she'd known Mark was in Shoreline last May when she was THERE! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:20:02 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: politics NJC > discussing politics just isn't my cuppa tea. Sure you do ... Newsreels rattle the Nazi dread The able-bodied have shipped away Catherine McKay gets her tea-leaves read You'll be married in a month they say "These leaves are crazy! Look at this town there's no men left! Just frail old boys and babies Talking to teacher in the treble clef" (Lay down your arms) ; ) Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:25:16 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: Joni on war Hey y'all, there is no dichotomy between being against a war and having concerns or compassion for service people - The person who wrote the last line of Woodstock was always one of us and yet Joni being Joni never wanted to be associated with any movement - she's a feminist and yet deplores being called one - she is out there doing her own thing. Her associations with CSNY who sang Wooden Ships, Chicago, Ohio, and Joni's own Fiddle and the Drum put Joni always in the loosely defined group of people called peace people back then, her singing Get Together at Celebration of Bug Sur - that was a "political: song back then, not a campfire folk song as it is now - but Joni was never a part of any organized anything, could never picture her walking down 5th Avenue with a picket sign (that would be Marvin Gaye territory...) but she was one of us and I suspect she still is. That she played for service people back then or would now is way cool because like her dad, ,like my dad, like my friends in the 60s and 70s, Lori and our other vets, like my son now, people in service are people doing a job and you have to love them, they aren't the people making the decisions to wage war, they are regular folks with the extra dimension that they risk all - in fact service people are among the ones we are trying to keep from getting killed - no dichotomy between being against a war and loving service people - just my thoughts with Joni content Vince SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/21/2003 2:46:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, KJHSF@aol.com >writes: > > > >>This is where she met Killer Kyle from The Beat of >>Black Wings. >> >> > >And also the soldier who sends her medals in "Cactus Tree". > >It seems to me that she chronicles war as it affects people > > >>personally which is part of the beauty of her writing. >> >> > >Very astute observation, Ken...I think that the fact that her Dad was in the >service plays into that a bit too - she has a certain amount of compassion & understanding for the enlisted man. > >Great post...I can easily hear her saying the line you gave her. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:27:38 -0500 From: vince Subject: very njc protesting via internet The New York Times reported yesterday that "global anti-war protests have put the White House on the defensive." Between the strong case for tough inspections and the growing domestic and international opposition to war, the hawks in the Bush Administration are on the run. We need to keep them there. We've marched in the streets of New York. We've marched in over 600 cities around the world. Now it's time to bring that noise to Washington, where the President and Congress can't escape it. On February 26th, you can join a massive march on Washington without leaving your living room. Just go to: http://www.moveon.org/winwithoutwar/ The Virtual March on Washington is a first-of-its-kind group effort from the Win Without War coalition. Working together, we'll direct a steady stream of phone calls -- about one per minute, all day -- to every Senate office in the country, while at the same time delivering a constant stream of emails and faxes. Think of it as a march -- one by one, we'll be passing through our Senators' offices and the offices of the White House to let them know how we feel about this war. Like a normal march, the success of this campaign depends on how many people participate. All you need to do is make three phone calls -- it won't take more than 15 minutes of your time. But together with tens of thousands of others, it'll make a huge impression: on February 26th, in every Senate office and in the White House, the phones will be ringing off their hooks. You can sign up for your time to call or place a free fax right now at: http://www.moveon.org/winwithoutwar/ Here's what Tom Andrews, a former Member of Congress and the National Director of the Win Without War Coalition has to say about the February 26th Virtual March: "Believe me, political leaders in Washington will get the message when their phones and fax machines light up -- and stay lit up -- from morning until night. They will know that there are a lot of us, that we care deeply about this unnecessary march to war, and that we are organized. Our message will be heard. But, we absolutely need you to make this work." Last Saturday, millions of us in hundreds of cities around the world voiced our opposition to a war on Iraq. Please help us bring this dissent to Washington on February 26th, by taking part in the Virtual March. Sincerely, - --Wes Boyd and Eli Pariser MoveOn.org February 19th, 2003 P.S. If you'd like to help get the word out about the Virtual March, we need volunteers to assist with the distribution of leaflets country-wide. You can join a leafleting team in your neck of the woods at: http://www.moveon.org/leaflets/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:36:01 -0500 From: vince Subject: Re: e-bomb (njc) Lori Fye wrote: >Mike wrote: > > > >>The World Court determined that the US was guilty of 'unlawful use of >>force' in Nicaragua and violation of treaties >> >> Lori Fye wrote: >The U.S. violated treaties? Surely you jest! > >Lori > > > I say: Mike, take your antiAmerican head and shove it up your antiAmerican ass, you are clearly a socialist and a liar and may all the e-bombs fall on your infrastructure but also you and destroy you so you can no longer serve as a nexus of evil. lovingly, with all compassionate conservatism,. G. Bush and C. Powell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:14:23 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: SUVs (njc) Lori mentioned she hates luxury SUVs. So do I. It's so silly. People want to look like their adventurers or something, when they use the vehicle for shuttling the kids to soccer practice. OK, so I do own what's technically an SUV. It's a 1993 Geo Tracker. One of the smallest vehicles out there (in length anyway.) The gas mileage is good (about 30 mpg). And when I'm in Vermont, I go on roads where 4WD is a necessity. I'm saving my pennies for a new vehicle. I'm interested in the new Honda, I think it's called an FCX. There are prototypes being shipped to San Francisco for the city to use. It's a zero-emissions vehicle. I'm not sure what it runs on. It looks like a hybrid or possibly all electric. Now if only it was 4WD :-) Also I hear good things about the Prius, a hybrid. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:22:23 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: NZ (njc) Azeem mentioned: PS New Zealand aren't doing badly in the world cup, hey? Worth a small wager, perhaps, so those in the know are saying... Yeah, but they're getting killed in the America's Cup. Dean Barker and friends are practically self-destructing. Even if you don't like to watch sailing (which I suspect is 99% of you), the "lowlights" of race one are worth seeing. The boat started taking on water, then the carbon fiber boom broke, then the jib tore off like a kleenex, then the replacement jib did the same thing. Who says saiing's not exciting? I hope they rally for the next race, but it really does look like Alinghi is going to take the Cup. Just curious for those in that part of the world - I hear there quite the furor about the six on Alinghi from NZ. What's the scoop? lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:27:19 -0800 (PST) From: anne@sandstrom.com Subject: Joni and cars It just occurred to me that there are vehicles on five Joni album covers (that I can think of...) STAS - the red van LOTC - the VW bug DED - the Volvo that's been in an accident Hits - the white car Misses - same white car There's also: Car on a Hill "I'm traveling in some vehicle" "Sometimes change comes at you like a broadside accident" I'm sure there are more... Any takers on adding to this list? lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:34:30 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: SUVs (njc) I don't own an SUV and can't afford one. However, whilst i always thought more or lessthe same as ann andlori about them, i changed my mind upon having the opportunity to drive a couple. I felt much safer in them. i was high up, my visibilty was excellent. For those reasons alone, I would feel quite comfortable driving one permently. However, I don't have the money and even with my good friends on the jmdl, i don't think my body will earn me enough to own one. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:43:29 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and cars In a message dated 2/21/2003 9:27:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > I'm sure there are more... Any takers on adding to this > list? > There's a bunch of vehicles, to be sure. I'll add the car she's in with Klein when she's taking her "Night Ride Home", with the horse running alongside. Such beautiful romantic imagery in that song, matched by it's lovely melody. Muller says it's a standard in 50 years, and I'll have 'em all dammit! :~) Bob NP: War, "Slippin' Into Darkness" (live & cookin') ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:45:35 -0000 From: "Laurent Olszer" Subject: John Martyn, njc Dear Colin, I cannot thank you enough for what you did. And you're the only one who did it, which makes it even more special. Actually this reminds me of a little story which illustrates what JMDL is all about: if you recall I had a very heated discussion 1 year ago with Vince, which came close to name calling. Then Vince posted that he needed some Neil Young bootleg. I was the only one on the list who had what Vince needed. So I sent it to him. And in the process we became friends, ever since. FYI, I'll copy the tape for Les Irvin who's also interested. Unrelated to the above: as I was standing in line this morning to buy Paul Mc Cartney tickets, there walked a young french Joni look-alike to get theater tickets. Arghh! Cheers Laurent ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: deb talan NJC Mags - Deb is an incredible songwriter and singer. We met in Colorado years ago at a songwriting workshop and now she lives in Western, MA and I'm glad she is getting the notice she deserves. What would you like to know about her? Jenny - --- Mags N Brei wrote: > i've just been given the heads up about singer / > songwriter deb talan...anyone heard of her or know > anything about her? i would appreciate any > information you may have on her. thanks. > mags. > > > You open my heart, you do. > Yes you do. > - JM > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, and more Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:12:52 -0500 From: "Lavieri, Vince [185776]" Subject: friends, njc Laurent wrote: Actually this reminds me of a little story which illustrates what JMDL is all about: if you recall I had a very heated discussion 1 year ago with Vince, which came close to name calling. Then Vince posted that he needed some Neil Young bootleg. I was the only one on the list who had what Vince needed. So I sent it to him. And in the process we became friends, ever since. And my reply: Laurent is one of the finest people I know. That we differ on some things is meaningless in terms of the human connection. Laurent gave me great help on several things other than the Neil Young music and I trust his judgment and I respect him as a friend very, very highly. I will never be able to express my appreication enough to Laurent for several things that he has done for me that the JMDL will never know about., but know that I love the guy. And that is what the JMDL is all about. Vince ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:27:14 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: John Martyn, njc Laurent Olszer wrote: >Dear Colin, > >I cannot thank you enough for what you did. > you are welcome. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:33:32 +0000 From: colin Subject: jonifest sweater njc It has been 6months now since the last Fest. The winner of the sweater has not contacted me. i had to write and ask someone who had won it. It doesn't bother me that the sweater is not wanted. What bothers me is the lack of respect in not even letting me know you won it and that you didn't want it. Of course, i could be way out line and you have been icapacitated since the day of the raffle..... The sweater would not have been like Maggie's -we decided between us what she wanted. As I would have with the new winner. now that is off my chest.... bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:41:22 -0500 From: "Scott and Jody" Subject: Re: what day is it? njc Rosie - I hope you had a Wonderful 50th Birthday!! Wishing you lot's of Happiness!!! jody - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 8:40 PM Subject: what day is it? njc > The hell with all this politics, it's my feckin 50th Birthday!!!duh > U r toast Jimmy!!! LMAO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:54:38 -0800 (PST) From: Jenny Goodspeed Subject: Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote:Thanks for signing back on, Mark...another reason for me to stick around, which I was looking for. > Bob Oh no, Bob - were you thinking of jumping ship all together? I switched to Joni only recently too. But sometimes scan the non-joni-only archives - like a bad habit I can't drop (I can think of worse habits, though). I have been wondering if the nature of the JMDL has been changing, since some longtime listers are switching to joni-only - or is this just a natural cycle of the list. Did you say you were thinking of coming up north for Wall to Wall Joni. I'm thinking of going too. I'm curious, is anybody else making the trip to the big apple for the free show? Jenny Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:04:38 +0100 From: "Gillian Apter" Subject: Oh, no, not another f.... ing link!! NJC I know some (or the silent majority?) are tired of all this back and forth about the war (yes, it seems to be a a fait accompli already doesn't it?) but I was sent this link about the possible "real reasons" behind the US determination to go into Iraq with blazing saddles. I don't say I agree or disagree with this... I just found it fascinating reading. Here's a quote:- "In a series of packed lectures in Oxford, Professor David Harvey, one of the world's most distinguished geographers, has provided what may be the first comprehensive explanation of the US government's determination to go to war. His analysis suggests that it has little to do with Iraq, less to do with weapons of mass destruction and nothing to do with helping the oppressed. The underlying problem the US confronts is the one which periodically afflicts all successful economies: the over-accumulation of capital. Excessive production of any good - be it cars or shoes or bananas - means that unless new markets can be found, the price of that product falls and profits collapse. Just as it was in the early 1930s, the US is suffering from surpluses of commodities, manufactured products, manufacturing capacity and money. Just as it was then, it is also faced with a surplus of labour, yet the two surpluses, as before, cannot be profitably matched. This problem has been developing in the US since 1973. It has now tried every available means of solving it and, by doing so, maintaining its global dominance. The only remaining, politically viable option is war. " http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,897766,00.html Peace Gill (in Madrid ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:04:16 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: what day is it? njc Happy birthday, Rose! What a day to have your birthday . . . the Birthday Fairy is traveling traveling and was supposed to be in Boston yesterday, but do you think that winged bitch has called me yet, as he said he would? NO! And as for Jimmy the Deputy BF, he's easily distracted and probably found something shiny to stare at for a few days. I am just the lowly Birthday Gnome, by the way, and I don't have a list of birthdays -- so who knew! I hope this oversight from JMDL Birthday Central doesn't take any of the fun out of your day! Celebrate and look forward to Bruuuuuce live on the Grammys this coming Sunday. Happy birthday, birthday girl! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:10:29 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: SUVs (njc) Anne wrote: > OK, so I do own what's technically an SUV. It's a 1993 > Geo Tracker. One of the smallest vehicles out there (in > length anyway.) The gas mileage is good (about 30 mpg). > And when I'm in Vermont, I go on roads where 4WD is a > necessity. I would be remiss if I didn't set the record straight. Mary (and I, by extension) own (well, are paying for) a 2002 Mazda Tribute (almost identical to the Ford Escape). It replaced a 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan, which was impractical for a family of two people and three cats. Mary drives the Tribute about 46 miles round-trip each weekday; she would prefer to use public transportation but that doesn't work very well for her. We use the Tribute as a truck quite a lot of the time - mostly to pick up and haul discarded materials for the ongoing patio/walkway project (http://www.geocities.com/lrfye/patio.html; http://www.lrfye.lunarpages.com/littleton/020910-003.jpg) - and we've certainly used the 4-wheel drive feature this winter. My greatest regret about the Tribute is that it has an automatic transmission (this is another of my pet peeves - I truly believe everyone should drive a car with a manual transmission unless they are physcially incapable of doing so). Otherwise, I enjoy the Tribute a lot and have considering trying to convince Mary to let me drive it to JoniFest so I can use it as a camper. When I'm not using public transportation I drive a 1995 Chevy Cavalier 5-speed (69,800 miles on the odo) that gets 38 mpg on the highway and about 30 mpg in the city. My next car? Probably a Mazda Protege 5 (wagon), with a manual tranny of course! Lori ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:10:25 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and cars In a message dated 2/21/2003 9:27:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, anne@sandstrom.com writes: > I'm sure there are more... Any takers on adding to this > list? > Well, we can't forget the backseat bliss in Ray's Dad's Cadillac! Or the Jaguar in the drive... Or the big dipper hanging there, over the rent-a-car Ken np: msnbc (is there any good news?) Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:21:43 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: SUVs (njc) Colin wrote: > I felt much safer in them. i was high up, my visibilty was excellent. Although I'm sure many SUV manufacturers have improved their vehicles, SUVs have a history of tipping over fairly easily. Lori, who used to own a 1976 Jeep CJ-5 with a V8 (way too much engine for the body) that tipped and flipped more than once ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:29:07 -0800 From: "Lori Fye" Subject: Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall (NJC) > I have been wondering if the nature of the JMDL has been changing, > since some longtime listers are switching to joni-only - or is this > just a natural cycle of the list. It's the latter. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:42:12 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: SUVs (njc) Lori Fye wrote: >Colin wrote: > > > >>I felt much safer in them. i was high up, my visibilty was excellent. >> >> > >Although I'm sure many SUV manufacturers have improved their vehicles, >SUVs have a history of tipping over fairly easily. > deosn't surprise me. I habve to admit in not driving much more than 50mph in them. didn't feel good going faster..... > >Lori, >who used to own a 1976 Jeep CJ-5 with a V8 (way too much engine for the >body) that tipped and flipped more than once ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:52:37 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: trying Joni only and wall to wall (NJC) I think the list changed since sept 11th. it was bound to. it changed all of us. Living under threat is stressful. Fear is stressful. Even unacknowledged fear is stressful. we are human beings, it shows. i would find constantly rehashing Joni stressful so thank god for the njc part. if it was just Joni, it would be very boring. for me anyway.How many times can you discuss 'notches/nachos'? well lots apparently! Or her smoking? or her daughter/ her mother? her moaning? or how people just don't 'get' her? (appalling that one imo and I don't mean it is appalling that people don;t get her, i think it appalling that this is even thought. such elitism). of course now I will be labelled 'not a real fan' but who gives a monkeys. my cd collection would say otherwise..... Lori Fye wrote: >>I have been wondering if the nature of the JMDL has been changing, >>since some longtime listers are switching to joni-only - or is this >>just a natural cycle of the list. >> >> > >It's the latter. > >Lori ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:05:13 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and cars Anne writes: << Car on a Hill "I'm traveling in some vehicle" "Sometimes change comes at you like a broadside accident" I'm sure there are more... Any takers on adding to this list? >> Sure, Anne, I'll play -- although I don't know WHAT this has to do with politics! Cart wheels turn to car wheels I hope they finally fixed your automobile Is that our new car, Charles? --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:11:30 EST From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and cars I wrote: << Cart wheels turn to car wheels I hope they finally fixed your automobile Is that our new car, Charles? >> Oh, yeah . . . the vehicles owned by Ray's dad and Nathan La Franeer. Plus Otis in the driver's seat. --Bob, loving the Joni content ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:11:44 +0000 From: colin Subject: Re: Joni and cars ray's dad's cadillac? Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >Anne writes: > ><< Car on a Hill > >"I'm traveling in some vehicle" > >"Sometimes change comes at you like a broadside > >accident" > > >I'm sure there are more... Any takers on adding to this > >list? >> > >Sure, Anne, I'll play -- although I don't know WHAT this has to do with >politics! > >Cart wheels turn to car wheels >I hope they finally fixed your automobile >Is that our new car, Charles? > > --Bob ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2003 #132 ***************************** ------- Post messages to the list by clicking here: mailto:joni@smoe.org Unsubscribe by clicking here: mailto:joni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe ------- Siquomb, isn't she? (http://www.siquomb.com/siquomb.cfm)